Hardtail vs suspension 29ers- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Hardtail vs suspension 29ers

    I got a question for anyone who has ridden both. I have a 293 and a KM currently. One of the qualities of the KM that I noticed is that I can get out of the saddle and hammer when I want to. When I do this on the 293, the rear end breaks loose a lot of the time - especially during climbs. My question is, is this trait due to long chainstays? Or is it a sugar thing? Weight distribution? The sugar is an fantastic bike and some people prefer to never get out of the saddle, I do though. Do you Titus and Leviathon owners notice the same thing? My Mooto X didn't seem to do this. Just wondering if I can expect this on all FS 29ers.

    Thanks for any input!!

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tbone
    I got a question for anyone who has ridden both. I have a 293 and a KM currently. One of the qualities of the KM that I noticed is that I can get out of the saddle and hammer when I want to. When I do this on the 293, the rear end breaks loose a lot of the time - especially during climbs. My question is, is this trait due to long chainstays? Or is it a sugar thing? Weight distribution? The sugar is an fantastic bike and some people prefer to never get out of the saddle, I do though. Do you Titus and Leviathon owners notice the same thing? My Mooto X didn't seem to do this. Just wondering if I can expect this on all FS 29ers.

    Thanks for any input!!
    I have both a hardtail and a 292 and I don't notice the 292 breaking loose on climbs and I also like to climb out of the saddle now and then. But then again I don't weigh much at 145lbs so maybe my comparison is not worth much to you.

  3. #3
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    thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Super E
    I have both a hardtail and a 292 and I don't notice the 292 breaking loose on climbs and I also like to climb out of the saddle now and then. But then again I don't weigh much at 145lbs so maybe my comparison is not worth much to you.

    Thanks for the input SuperE. I Don't know if the weight is a factor or not either. Does your 292 have the propedal shock? Any Lenz or Titus owners care to weigh in? I'd love to hear opinions or comparisons between these and the sugar. (Nate? Jl? Mikesee?) I've always liked the Titus and Lenz but could never shell out that level of cash. But maybe in the near future - depending on the difference in the ride between them and the sugar. The new Buzzbomb sounds it may be a good one as well.

    Thanks again!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tbone
    Thanks for the input SuperE. I Don't know if the weight is a factor or not either. Does your 292 have the propedal shock? Any Lenz or Titus owners care to weigh in? I'd love to hear opinions or comparisons between these and the sugar. (Nate? Jl? Mikesee?) I've always liked the Titus and Lenz but could never shell out that level of cash. But maybe in the near future - depending on the difference in the ride between them and the sugar. The new Buzzbomb sounds it may be a good one as well.

    Thanks again!
    Yep I have a Fox Propedal shock (run it at 55-60 psi for my 145lb lard butt). I have more problems with bob in the front fork - nothing that can't be adjusted out as I ride though. I would love to take a few (many) test rides on the Lenz and the Titus - they both look like top rides. But they would have to be dramatically better than what I have to make me put up the cash (I would if it was that much better).

  5. #5
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    Have you got EXACTLY the same position on the 293 and KM ?
    (bar position and seat relative to the point where rear tire is touching the ground)
    Frenchspeaking 29"ers community site http://VingtNeuf.org

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by 20.100 FR
    Have you got EXACTLY the same position on the 293 and KM ?
    (bar position and seat relative to the point where rear tire is touching the ground)
    That's a good question. I was thinking the same thing.

    I also have an XL Karate Monkey and an XL Sugar 293 (2004 model year). Both are dialed in pretty close in terms of having the same position. I'm trying to recall in my memory the instances of slipping out on climbs while standing on the Sugar.

    I don't very often experience "breaking loose" from the rear on the Sugar while standing and climbing. However, I made a few adjustments to accomplish this. First, I run my PSI at about 30 on the Sugar. I also tried a few settings on the rear and front shock until I managed to dial in what works for me. Especially messing around with setting the sag seemed to help.

    With the rigid fork on the Monkey and no rear suspension - it climbs like a goat no doubt about it, but believe it or not - for some reason I seem to be able to climb the really, really steep stuff better on the Sugar. Go figure...

    Do you lock out your fork on the climbs?

    Anyway, Tbone, I hope you get it all worked out.

    BB

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tbone
    Any Lenz or Titus owners care to weigh in? I'd love to hear opinions or comparisons between these and the sugar. (Nate? Jl? Mikesee?) I've always liked the Titus and Lenz but could never shell out that level of cash.
    Thanks again!
    I've never experienced anything but a comparitively large increase in traction...no spinning out...this has been true on these 29ers that I've ridden:
    *KM
    *sofa King
    *293
    *Mooto X YBB (2)
    *Lenz

    If you've liked the lenz and titus 29ers you've seen but had financial issues, I really think the upcoming Van Dessel Buzz Bomb Full Suspsension will be good. It's will be similar in appearance to the Titus, but with the rear pivot point moved to the ST from the CS to avoid paying Specialized. This is a technique that many folks do, such as Lenz, Kona, Dakar, etc...
    FS: Everything

  8. #8
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    Thanks

    I rode my 05 293 for the first time a couple of hours ago (when posting this question I assumed the new sugar would perform like the old one - new one was in the shop getting parts swapped) and this one didn't break loose like I remember the other one doing. Stable platform maybe??? But since I'm the only one that seemed to have a prob with it maybe its my lame riding style!!

    FR and BB:The bikes are set up almost the same as far as the cockpit positions go - same stem length, etc. Wasn't able to lock out the old fork but the Reba does and it helps. Nice fork. Nicer than the Marz SL.

    NC, I'm real curious to see the new VD. Have you seen pics or just heard about it? Maybe the frame is less flexy than the sugars. Should be interesting.

  9. #9
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    If you've liked the lenz and titus 29ers you've seen but had financial issues, I really think the upcoming Van Dessel Buzz Bomb Full Suspsension will be good. It's will be similar in appearance to the Titus, but with the rear pivot point moved to the ST from the CS to avoid paying Specialized. This is a technique that many folks do, such as Lenz, Kona, Dakar, etc...[/QUOTE]

    Any idea how much travel the VD will have???

  10. #10
    The Duuude, man...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tbone & and others
    Any idea how much travel the VD will have???
    No, I dont, nor have I seen pics....VD should get this first frame in around late Feb...i'm sure Edwin will post up photo's at that time...the hardtail BB is getting revamped as well..
    FS: Everything

  11. #11
    jl
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    Tbone,

    In response to your question. On my Lenz, if the back spins out hammering on a standard flat, or single track climb, it would of spun out on the hardtail.

    The biggest difference I feel is on a super-steep, super-technical terrain (like a prolonged step-ups), the back end of the Lenz will sometimes spin. But this has to do with my bad body position not the bike.

    With my old hardtail, I put more of my weight over the front of the bike. With the FS, because it sinks a little, I need to keep my weight back more it is very subtle, and sometimes frustrating. Because I've ridden 26" HT before getting the Lenz, I find that I have old habits that need to be corrected, I can't blame it on the bike....
    We don't need more to be thankful for; we just need to be more thankful.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tbone
    I got a question for anyone who has ridden both. I have a 293 and a KM currently. One of the qualities of the KM that I noticed is that I can get out of the saddle and hammer when I want to. When I do this on the 293, the rear end breaks loose a lot of the time - especially during climbs. My question is, is this trait due to long chainstays? Or is it a sugar thing? Weight distribution? The sugar is an fantastic bike and some people prefer to never get out of the saddle, I do though. Do you Titus and Leviathon owners notice the same thing? My Mooto X didn't seem to do this. Just wondering if I can expect this on all FS 29ers.

    Thanks for any input!!
    Well, I have the same opinion about my 292. However, I am attributing most of it to the Bontrager Jones ACX tires. The tread is relatively shallow and not that aggressive. In my opinion, tires make a huge difference.

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