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  1. #1
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    Guerrilla Gravity Smash vs Knolly Fugitive LT

    I’m sure nobody has ridden both of these, but what do you think about them? Both are at the top of my list, with the Yeti SB130 in far distant 3rd. From the geometry charts, the Fugative seems like a much better fit for me than the Smash. I can ride a Smash at anytime, but I’m doubtful I can find a Fugative in my size to demo.

    I’m in the PNW and ride most any trail from high speed loam to low speed tech. I enjoy traveling to places like Rossland or Whistler BC, Moab and Downieville.
    I only ride bikes to fill the time when I'm not skiing.

  2. #2
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    Not many Fugitives in the wild. I know VikB is an active member of the Knolly community in the PNW, but not even he has been able to get on a Fugitive.

    I think you'd be more likely to find a Fugitive owner who has been on a Smash than vice versa. Repost in Knolly forum.
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  3. #3
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    I am building a Fugitive and I ride with VikB a few times a year. A comparison would be tough because our setups are very different, but maybe I can hook him up with a demo in the future.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  4. #4
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    You should try a Smash. It’s different than any bike I’ve ridden, does not ride soft, seems bottomless but at the cost of riding firm. I’m learning to like it, but it’s not a cushy bike.

    In my mind it’s like riding a full suspension Pedalhead, great climber, rewards good technique, a very capable 29er; enduro capable.

    No idea on Knolly, not a big fan, rode a friends fs a few years back, overly complicated suspension, nothing to write home about. Maybe they got a new thing going, but I’d be wary. They certainly have their fans.

    There are so many good bikes right now, not sure you could go wrong, but clearly some are better. Buying a bike without a demo is always a shot in the dark; I’m shooting 50/50.

    Maybe I’m the odd one, but some of the bikes folks recommend, like the Tracer, they just do nothing for me.
    Lrg GG Pedalhead 29/27+
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  5. #5
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    Bottom bracket on the GG smash is pretty high at 13.7 with a 150 fork, were as the fugitive is 12.9 in the slack position. I had a friend who couldn't get along with a smash as he couldn't get it through the corners like he was used to. I think a big part was the high bottom bracket and huge stack.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldHouseMan View Post
    I’m sure nobody has ridden both of these, but what do you think about them? Both are at the top of my list, with the Yeti SB130 in far distant 3rd. From the geometry charts, the Fugative seems like a much better fit for me than the Smash. I can ride a Smash at anytime, but I’m doubtful I can find a Fugative in my size to demo.

    I’m in the PNW and ride most any trail from high speed loam to low speed tech. I enjoy traveling to places like Rossland or Whistler BC, Moab and Downieville.
    What sizes are you looking at for both bikes? Also, what makes you like the geometry of the Fugitive over the Smash?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by LowLow View Post
    What sizes are you looking at for both bikes? Also, what makes you like the geometry of the Fugitive over the Smash?
    Medium on both. The stack and seattube lengths on the medium Smash are more than I’d prefer though. I could go with a “smedium” Smash but that would just add additional cost. The medium Fugitive seems to be a nice middle ground.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    overly complicated suspension
    Nothing overly complicated there, just a couple more pivots to service occasionally, total non-issue really. They don't have a "new thing going", the fourx4 is their bread and butter, but the Fugitive does have the best pedalling platform they've produced so far according to Noel himself and also those who have ridden it.

    IMO the size/fit/geometry is probably the most important consideration when shopping for a frame, suspension performance and feel can be dialled and tuned hugely depending on what shock you run and how you set it up.

  9. #9
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    I’m going to humbly disagree that suspension can “always” be tuned to work for anyone.

    Different suspensions have different “baseline” feel.

    Geo is important, fit is important, but if the bike doesn’t ride well with a stock tune, how much more are you willing to do in order to get the feel you need; and may never get the feel you want.

    High B.B. vs low B.B. makes a big difference in how a bike rides. Ask yourself if you really need a high B.B., maybe a low B.B. will be okay.

    The Smash rides firm and tall, which makes it a great backcountry bike. The high B.B., steep HTA, and goat like traction make the Smash “epic worthy”.

    Is this ^ the kind of ride you need?
    Lrg GG Pedalhead 29/27+
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  10. #10
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    Guerrilla Gravity Smash vs Knolly Fugitive LT

    Knolly’s suspension platform was not love at first ride for me. Coming from the opposite type of bike in philosophy. It took me several rides to dial it in. Had I just ignored the many pundits and followed some basic principles as described very well by Steve at Vorsprung I would have arrived at the amazing ride I enjoy today on my Endorphin sooner.

    What I now realize is that I simply could not achieve the custom like ride qualities with many other designs because I would be hamstrung by their philosophy before even starting in particular high anti squat and it’s inherent flaws (chain growth and pedal kickback, locking of the rear shock and loss of traction etc.) I’d much rather dial in (literally) the quantities of these forces I wish to experience.

    I don’t agree with everything Knolly does, in particular I’d make different geometry choices and honestly the 157 is frustrating but hub standard changes are not unique to them and I understand the value afforded by the change.

    Regarding extra maintenance that’s just a myth I’ve not had to do anything special from a maintenance perspective, a non issue.

    One last thing I will mention; I have yet to see any other alloy frame as well engineered and manufactured as a Knolly that includes N/A made bikes I have seen in person.
    Michael

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by geraldooka View Post
    the 157 is frustrating but hub standard changes are not unique to them

    Hub standard changes *are* frustrating -- especially when 150/157 came out a decade+ ago. In the interim the 142, 148, and 141 variants have added no value whatsoever to what 150/157 already solved way back then.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    I’m going to humbly disagree that suspension can “always” be tuned to work for anyone.

    Different suspensions have different “baseline” feel.

    Geo is important, fit is important, but if the bike doesn’t ride well with a stock tune, how much more are you willing to do in order to get the feel you need; and may never get the feel you want.

    High B.B. vs low B.B. makes a big difference in how a bike rides. Ask yourself if you really need a high B.B., maybe a low B.B. will be okay.

    The Smash rides firm and tall, which makes it a great backcountry bike. The high B.B., steep HTA, and goat like traction make the Smash “epic worthy”.

    Is this ^ the kind of ride you need?
    When did 66 with a 140 fork become a steep HTA??????
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldHouseMan View Post
    Medium on both. The stack and seattube lengths on the medium Smash are more than I’d prefer though. I could go with a “smedium” Smash but that would just add additional cost. The medium Fugitive seems to be a nice middle ground.
    Yeah, just based on the numbers and what you seem to be looking for, the Fugitive seems a bit more appealing. Other than differences the HT & ST heights and the BB height, the stack numbers suggest you'd be sitting a bit taller on the Smash, but that might be offset by the longer reach. You'd also get a longer WB on the Smash, which might be good or bad depending on what type of riding you're looking to do -- but the 1" difference would be noticeable.

    Of course, test riding both bikes would be ideal, but if you can't do that, then it seems like you'd need to decide based on these numbers, and also some of the other aspects of each bike, like whether you'd prefer internal routing, 31.6 or 30.9 seat post, boost vs. super boost, the NUTS thing GG has, the optionality GG provides as far as color customization, etc. I'm sure you've already thought of all of this though...

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Hub standard changes *are* frustrating -- especially when 150/157 came out a decade+ ago. In the interim the 142, 148, and 141 variants have added no value whatsoever to what 150/157 already solved way back then.
    I suspect you are right. I wasn’t a part of this world then having forgotten about riding for a while. I know I have several really expensive hubbed wheels now and none of them will work with the next Knolly I may buy which sucks. Particularly since my current Endo is fine and already fits a beefy 2.6 with its obsolete 142...
    Michael

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  15. #15
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    I sold a bike 2 years ago with a Hadley 150 hub, shoulda kept that hub.

    I think that a better comparison is the medium Smash VS the large Fugitive. They have the same seat tube lengths, and real reach would be very close because of the Smash's higher stack. BB height and suspension kinematics are the big differences.

    I will stick with Knolly because they are Canadian, have fantastic warranty service, locally supported, and flat out ride great for me. Disclaimer, I do work PT at the local Knolly dealer, but I had already owned 3 when I was hired. The shop needed the cool old man vibe.
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  16. #16
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    I do agree to some extent that I wish GG made the custom sizes well...standard. I think a 140mm head tube is a bit excessive for all but the tallest riders. I'd like to see the Medium and Larges retain a 100mm head tube and let the folks who need more stack control it with spacers.

    I'm happy that I got a Extra Medium Smash without paying the premium (because pre-owned) but that's only because the previous owner wanted a full-fledged large with the higher stack. Me personally? I like lower stack bikes, so it worked in my favor.

    One thing the Fugitive has going for it is tons of space in the front triangle, although it just occured to me that the 4x4 linkage is almost like a Propain but with the shock in front of the seat tube. Lots of wasted space in the grundle era.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldHouseMan View Post
    I’m sure nobody has ridden both of these, but what do you think about them? Both are at the top of my list, with the Yeti SB130 in far distant 3rd. From the geometry charts, the Fugative seems like a much better fit for me than the Smash. I can ride a Smash at anytime, but I’m doubtful I can find a Fugative in my size to demo.

    I’m in the PNW and ride most any trail from high speed loam to low speed tech. I enjoy traveling to places like Rossland or Whistler BC, Moab and Downieville.


    I live in the PNWet as well. I also travel to the same places to ride. Here are far too many words I've written about the GG Smash. The last link is a review if you want to skip to the chase.

    https://vikapprovedblog.wordpress.co...ty-smash-29er/
    https://vikapprovedblog.wordpress.co...y-smash-build/
    https://vikapprovedblog.wordpress.co...-smash-review/

    I own a Knolly Endo as well so I can compare general Knolly-ness to the GG design philosophy, but the closest I have been to a Fugitive is geeking out on Noel's when I saw him at BCBR.

    Both companies are pretty rad and both bikes are undoubtedly fun to ride.

    I have no plans to buy a Fugitive and I don't have a Knolly dealer in town so it's unlikely I'll get a demo on the new 29er in the near term.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    I am building a Fugitive and I ride with VikB a few times a year. A comparison would be tough because our setups are very different, but maybe I can hook him up with a demo in the future.
    I'd be happy to make that happen, but I think unless we loaned the other person our bike for a weekend or so it wouldn't be all that useful. Getting stuff setup for our size, weight and riding preferences isn't a 5 min operation. And generally when we hook up we get right to the riding in Cumby.

    So ya if you want to meet up and put our minds to doing a comparo I'd do my part!
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Bottom bracket on the GG smash is pretty high at 13.7 with a 150 fork, were as the fugitive is 12.9 in the slack position. I had a friend who couldn't get along with a smash as he couldn't get it through the corners like he was used to. I think a big part was the high bottom bracket and huge stack.
    The Smash BB is higher than the Knolly. My Smash is something like 13.7" and my Endo is something like 13.3". I smash the $hit out of my Endo pedals in our chunky slow speed techy terrain. In fact I bent the spindles after a year and had to buy new pedals.

    On the Smash I can pedal through a lot of our tech without a second thought. I'm PRing up and down on the Smash so the higher BB is not holding me back. In fact other than not smacking pedals I don't notice the BB is any higher when I am riding.

    And yes I can ratchet the $hit out of it if I have to, but when your terrain is all tech all the time that gets very old very fast if you want to get up any tech climbs.

    The higher BB on the Smash was a selling point when I considered a few new bikes.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  20. #20
    Anytime. Anywhere.
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    Next visit I can arrange a Fugitive demo if you like.

    I never smashed the pedals on my Endorphin which I chalk up to "local effect".

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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    Next visit I can arrange a Fugitive demo if you like.

    I never smashed the pedals on my Endorphin which I chalk up to "local effect".
    I won't say no to a Fug demo. Thanks.

    BBH preference is definitely location/terrain dependant. Chunky seems to be on the menu a lot for me at home and when I travel.
    Safe riding,

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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    You should try a Smash. It’s different than any bike I’ve ridden, does not ride soft, seems bottomless but at the cost of riding firm. I’m learning to like it, but it’s not a cushy bike.

    GG reviews have consistently echoed this sentiment.

    Its the biggest thing that has held me back from buying a GG.

    I don't like soft suspension that blows through all its travel easily but I do like suspension relatively soft off the top. The Knolly I run now, with a coil, feels perfect to me. Soaks up the small chatter very well, but when the going gets fast and big and chunky the bike remains incredibly composed, and takes even the bigger hits very well.

    I'm thinking about the TP with an IL coil at 130. GG said that should give me the feel I'm looking for (in a 29").

    I'd like to see the TP's leverage curve.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    I'd like to see the TP's leverage curve.
    Is this what you're looking for? Vital MTB Test Sessions

    Bottom of review

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apolonios View Post
    Is this what you're looking for? Vital MTB Test Sessions

    Bottom of review
    Yeah, cool, thanks.

    Nice to see the leverage curve graph.

    Quite a few times during that review they alluded to the ride feeling rather firm.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    Quite a few times during that review they alluded to the ride feeling rather firm.
    If you want a plush 120mm bike I don't think the TP is the answer.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  26. #26
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    The Vital MTB review ^ is spot on with my experience on the Smash.

    I didn't like the coil on my Smash, I ran a DB Coil and found it firmer and less adaptable than a Deluxe. Perhaps it was the wrong coil, I might have gotten a better ride on a Deluxe Coil.

    The comment about running a firmer fork to "match" the firm rear suspension is right on, but it's not necessary, sorta depends on how you like to ride; back, centered, forward. I use a TRP Ramp cartridge to adjust feel on the fly; highly recommended.

    In my mind, when I was looking for a new fs bike, I wanted a full suspension version of a my hardtail (Wozo, now a Pedalhead): strong climber, quick, stable at speed. The GG Smash is what I wanted, but that doesn't mean that at time I wish for a cushier ride.

    => You just can't have it all in one bike.

    If you can see the same advertisement as me; on either side of the forum there is an advertisement for Niner bikes, you will see a flat flowy single track on the left and a boulder strewn steel single track on the right. The Smash/TP are designed for the riding on the right (boulders and steep).

    The Vital MTB review is applicable to the Smash.

    From Vital MTB Review of the GG TP:

    "Enough progressivity for a trail bike when in Crush mode at around 22%. In Plush mode the bike becomes more linear with 10% less progression.
    •Plush and Crush mode mostly impact the leverage ratio while other parameters remain similar.
    •Good pedaling efficiency in a 30-tooth chainring with anti-squat values around 110% on most cogs.
    •Pedal kickback is proportional to the amount of anti-squat. Since the anti-squat values remain quite high over the whole travel, the amount of total pedal kickback is higher than similar bikes.
    •Anti-rise is around 80% at sag, meaning that the geometry of the bike is preserved under braking.
    •Overall it’s a moderately progressive trail bike with good pedaling efficiency.

    An incredibly capable bike that rides fast and wild, the Pistol is not for the weak at heart. It's not playful in the traditional sense, but this built-to-charge weapon is amazing on wide open trails and encourages you to pick up and let it fly."

    Quote Originally Posted by Apolonios View Post
    Is this what you're looking for? Vital MTB Test Sessions

    Bottom of review
    Lrg GG Pedalhead 29/27+
    XMed GG Smash 29/27+
    Lrg Devinci Hendrix 27+ (Loaner)
    Pivot Shuttle 27+ (wife)

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    The Vital MTB review ^ is spot on with my experience on the Smash.

    I didn't like the coil on my Smash, I ran a DB Coil and found it firmer and less adaptable than a Deluxe. Perhaps it was the wrong coil, I might have gotten a better ride on a Deluxe Coil.

    The comment about running a firmer fork to "match" the firm rear suspension is right on, but it's not necessary, sorta depends on how you like to ride; back, centered, forward. I use a TRP Ramp cartridge to adjust feel on the fly; highly recommended.

    In my mind, when I was looking for a new fs bike, I wanted a full suspension version of a my hardtail (Wozo, now a Pedalhead): strong climber, quick, stable at speed. The GG Smash is what I wanted, but that doesn't mean that at time I wish for a cushier ride.

    => You just can't have it all in one bike.

    If you can see the same advertisement as me; on either side of the forum there is an advertisement for Niner bikes, you will see a flat flowy single track on the left and a boulder strewn steel single track on the right. The Smash/TP are designed for the riding on the right (boulders and steep).

    The Vital MTB review is applicable to the Smash.

    From Vital MTB Review of the GG TP:

    "Enough progressivity for a trail bike when in Crush mode at around 22%. In Plush mode the bike becomes more linear with 10% less progression.
    •Plush and Crush mode mostly impact the leverage ratio while other parameters remain similar.
    •Good pedaling efficiency in a 30-tooth chainring with anti-squat values around 110% on most cogs.
    •Pedal kickback is proportional to the amount of anti-squat. Since the anti-squat values remain quite high over the whole travel, the amount of total pedal kickback is higher than similar bikes.
    •Anti-rise is around 80% at sag, meaning that the geometry of the bike is preserved under braking.
    •Overall it’s a moderately progressive trail bike with good pedaling efficiency.

    An incredibly capable bike that rides fast and wild, the Pistol is not for the weak at heart. It's not playful in the traditional sense, but this built-to-charge weapon is amazing on wide open trails and encourages you to pick up and let it fly."
    It sounds like a great candidate for coil. But id have to get the deluxe retuned or an Avalanche coil. This bike is on my maybe list for 2019. I personally prefer the higher than todays norm for BBH

  28. #28
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    I'm looking at making some tweaks, opening the air can to see what spacer is installed (looking for more initial softness), swapping to a 42mm offset and maybe increasing travel from 150-160mm (looking for more stability).

    If I can find a Deluxe Coil for cheap, I might just get one. As to the fork, I really can't complain about the Lyrik with the ramp cartridge. I'm a Pike guy, this is my first Lyrik, works as advertised, stiffer than a Pike and just a tad heavier.

    Overall, it's a great bike, just depends on what a person wants. If I were riding smaller mountains like the Smokies, I might go with a TP, really the two bikes are so similar in design and geo, the lower BB on the TP is good or bad depending on the user. I much prefer a high BB, pedal strikes suck!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    It sounds like a great candidate for coil. But id have to get the deluxe retuned or an Avalanche coil. This bike is on my maybe list for 2019. I personally prefer the higher than todays norm for BBH
    Lrg GG Pedalhead 29/27+
    XMed GG Smash 29/27+
    Lrg Devinci Hendrix 27+ (Loaner)
    Pivot Shuttle 27+ (wife)

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    I'm looking at making some tweaks, opening the air can to see what spacer is installed (looking for more initial softness), swapping to a 42mm offset and maybe increasing travel from 150-160mm (looking for more stability).

    If I can find a Deluxe Coil for cheap, I might just get one. As to the fork, I really can't complain about the Lyrik with the ramp cartridge. I'm a Pike guy, this is my first Lyrik, works as advertised, stiffer than a Pike and just a tad heavier.

    Overall, it's a great bike, just depends on what a person wants. If I were riding smaller mountains like the Smokies, I might go with a TP, really the two bikes are so similar in design and geo, the lower BB on the TP is good or bad depending on the user. I much prefer a high BB, pedal strikes suck!
    I have a lot of flat and chunky climbs, hate ratcheting a whole trail lol. Im one a Riot right now, sometimes i wish for a longer fork. So if the Riot isn't updated next year ill probably get a Smash.

  30. #30
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    One of the advantages of that higher BB and higher anti-squat number is that the bike can really handle 30-35% of sag without getting overly wallowy.

    I'm a heavier rider (240lbs) and I ditched all the volume spacers in my Deluxe RT. Every big drop I've done so far has gone off without a hitch. I roll in kinda scared, and roll out being like "I could'a gone bigger!"

    I dunno, I'm just stoked to own a bike that is versatile, relatively lightweight for it's intended use, material and cost, fits great, and is the first made-in-the-USA bike I've owned since a used Cannondale Prophet back in 2005.

    I don't have the money, nor does my fitness level warrant owning a $5000 wonderbike, I'm happy with my $2500 budget built Smash.
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  31. #31
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    Here's VitalMTB's review of The Smash for folks who haven't seen it: https://www.vitalmtb.com/product/gui...aign=spotlight.

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    That's what I'm thinking, ditch the spacers and see how it rides.

    I've tried super low psi in the Deluxe, and even though it used up the travel to fast, it was never wallowy.

    If a Smash feels wallowy, you need to check your tire pressure cuz you got a flat!

    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post
    One of the advantages of that higher BB and higher anti-squat number is that the bike can really handle 30-35% of sag without getting overly wallowy.

    I'm a heavier rider (240lbs) and I ditched all the volume spacers in my Deluxe RT. Every big drop I've done so far has gone off without a hitch. I roll in kinda scared, and roll out being like "I could'a gone bigger!"

    I dunno, I'm just stoked to own a bike that is versatile, relatively lightweight for it's intended use, material and cost, fits great, and is the first made-in-the-USA bike I've owned since a used Cannondale Prophet back in 2005.

    I don't have the money, nor does my fitness level warrant owning a $5000 wonderbike, I'm happy with my $2500 budget built Smash.
    Lrg GG Pedalhead 29/27+
    XMed GG Smash 29/27+
    Lrg Devinci Hendrix 27+ (Loaner)
    Pivot Shuttle 27+ (wife)

  34. #34
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    I really wanna demo a smash. I'm 6'4 and living in southern California. I'm going to make the trip to Colorado to demo but just seeing if anyone has one around here. I'm 6'4. thanks

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by slimphatty View Post
    I really wanna demo a smash. I'm 6'4 and living in southern California. I'm going to make the trip to Colorado to demo but just seeing if anyone has one around here. I'm 6'4. thanks
    GG has a list of owners all over Canada/US that are willing to demo their bikes. I would call them and ask. I'd be surprised if there wasn't an option in SoCal for you.

    FWIW - Post #5 in this thread is an XXL in SoCal:

    http://forums.mtbr.com/guerrilla-gra...l#post13824956

    and general Smash thread in the GG forums...someone might be from SoCal:

    http://forums.mtbr.com/guerrilla-gra...r-1050488.html
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  36. #36
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    Any Fugitive reports coming in yet? I'm a GG fan, but there sure are some cool looking 29er's out these days.
    "Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast."

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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmj831 View Post
    Any Fugitive reports coming in yet? I'm a GG fan, but there sure are some cool looking 29er's out these days.
    People are posting their Fug builds and initial reports in the Knolly forum.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  38. #38
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    What works for one person won’t always work for another.

    I love the high B.B. on the Smash, it makes cleaning rock gardens and ripping through gnarly stuff so much safer and fun.

    Nothing ends a ride worse than a pedal strike that sends you flying.

    I’m running my Smash with a 160mm Lyrik, 165mm cranks, and 2.6” tires, B.B. is ~14”, just right

    170mm dropper keeps me down low.

    I just got 27.5 wheels with Hans Dampf 2.8, fits the Smash with room to spare, turns it into a Mega Smash, great fun for softer conditions and junk, or when you wanna get low and float; drops the B.B. to 13.5”.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Bottom bracket on the GG smash is pretty high at 13.7 with a 150 fork, were as the fugitive is 12.9 in the slack position. I had a friend who couldn't get along with a smash as he couldn't get it through the corners like he was used to. I think a big part was the high bottom bracket and huge stack.
    Lrg GG Pedalhead 29/27+
    XMed GG Smash 29/27+
    Lrg Devinci Hendrix 27+ (Loaner)
    Pivot Shuttle 27+ (wife)

  39. #39
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    I have not tried a Smash, but I have got some solid riding in on my Fugitive. I have it setup 135/160 with an X2/36 Grip 2. In recent years I've had a 2011 Turner 5 Spot, Knolly Warden, and both medium and large Knolly Endorphins. The Fugitive pedals efficiently and has great climbing geometry. It's the best climbing FS bike I've been on. The BB is lowish, but no pedal strikes so far with my 175 cranks. Cornering feels natural and fast. The rear suspension is plush, efficient, and poppy. It soaks up chunder like a Warden and pops off stuff better than my Endorphins. I was following my friends on a steep and rough descent, and I kept asking myself why we were going so slow. PR'd it on Strava. This bike is a beast going down hill, and yet is a great all rounder. I have not tried it in slack mode yet, I forgot the other day. The new 29ers are amazing.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    What works for one person won’t always work for another.

    I love the high B.B. on the Smash, it makes cleaning rock gardens and ripping through gnarly stuff so much safer and fun.

    Nothing ends a ride worse than a pedal strike that sends you flying.

    I’m running my Smash with a 160mm Lyrik, 165mm cranks, and 2.6” tires, B.B. is ~14”, just right

    170mm dropper keeps me down low.

    I just got 27.5 wheels with Hans Dampf 2.8, fits the Smash with room to spare, turns it into a Mega Smash, great fun for softer conditions and junk, or when you wanna get low and float; drops the B.B. to 13.5”.
    Indeed. Here in AZ, there is a lot of benefit in having a higher BB than what a lot of new bikes have these days. I'm currently on a Megatrail, but at 6'2", in AZ, with so much square edged rock, I've been wanting to put some time in on a 29er. I've been considering doing the MegaSmash conversion, throwing some 29er wheels, 29 fork and and Smash shock on the Megatrail, but keeping the seat stays, because there as been some good feedback from other GG riders who've done it. But also looking at just getting a Smash, or a Fugitive or Offering, etc.
    Last edited by kmj831; 3 Weeks Ago at 11:24 AM.
    "Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast."

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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmj831 View Post
    Indeed. Here in AZ, there is a lot of benefit in having a higher BB than what a lot of new bikes have these days. I'm currently on a Megatrail, but at 6'2", in AZ, with so much square edged rock, I've been wanting to put some time in on a 29er. I've been considering doing the MegaSmash conversion, thorwing some 29er wheels, 29 fork and and Smash shock on the megatrail, but keeping the seat stays, because there as been some good feedback form other GG riders who've done it. But also looking at just getting a Smash, or a Fugitive or Offering, etc.
    I've been switching back and forth between my Knolly Endo [13.3" BB] and my Smash [~13.6" BB] lately. You wouldn't think 0.3" would be that big a deal, but it's the difference between regular pedal strikes and pedalling through chunk without a second thought.

    Given I am PRing the descents as well as the climbs on the Smash the higher BB isn't holding me back.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    I have not tried a Smash, but I have got some solid riding in on my Fugitive. I have it setup 135/160 with an X2/36 Grip 2. In recent years I've had a 2011 Turner 5 Spot, Knolly Warden, and both medium and large Knolly Endorphins. The Fugitive pedals efficiently and has great climbing geometry. It's the best climbing FS bike I've been on. The BB is lowish, but no pedal strikes so far with my 175 cranks. Cornering feels natural and fast. The rear suspension is plush, efficient, and poppy. It soaks up chunder like a Warden and pops off stuff better than my Endorphins. I was following my friends on a steep and rough descent, and I kept asking myself why we were going so slow. PR'd it on Strava. This bike is a beast going down hill, and yet is a great all rounder. I have not tried it in slack mode yet, I forgot the other day. The new 29ers are amazing.
    How does it ride compared to the Warden? The Warden composure and traction is one of the best I've felt, does the Fugitive have this with better pedaling?

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I've been switching back and forth between my Knolly Endo [13.3" BB] and my Smash [~13.6" BB] lately. You wouldn't think 0.3" would be that big a deal, but it's the difference between regular pedal strikes and pedalling through chunk without a second thought.

    Given I am PRing the descents as well as the climbs on the Smash the higher BB isn't holding me back.
    My Riot has the same BB height and it climbs chunk better
    And can peddle through rocks better than most bikes. COG is only one aspect of handling.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    How does it ride compared to the Warden? The Warden composure and traction is one of the best I've felt, does the Fugitive have this with better pedaling?
    I think the traction is similar and the suspension feels like more than 135mm. As capable as the Warden for me, and faster.

    Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

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