Giant P29 Ghetto tubeless

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  • 12-28-2009
    Yorto
    Giant P29 Ghetto tubeless
    Has anyone successfully managed to run tubeless on these rims ? If so what way did you do it. I was going to get a Stans kit but they don't make them for this specific rim just yet.
    I have read everywhere on the 26" rims they use a 20" tube for the Ghetto setup. I have also seen this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UeO8Utfny0 and part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-H1ib5HdA5M . Would this work well on this rim ?
  • 12-28-2009
    BadPirate
    Or you could just use Stans tape and a Mavic valve and do it the right way.
  • 12-28-2009
    Yorto
    I could do it the right way if there was a right way to begin with ;). but not yet :(.

    Unfortunately we did not have much success with a conversion kit for these rims. The design of the rim really requires a strip that is very thick in the center and thin on the sides whereas our strips are made to be thin in the center and thick on the sides.

    We'll keep working on it but for now, no good news for you.

    Sorry.

    Mike Bush
  • 12-28-2009
    metelhead
    i had mixed results with the giant wheels...like the ones on the xtc 29er right?

    i went ghetto style with tape not tubes, but the biggest issue is the valve stem and how the rim is drilled(meaning the inner wall is much bigger than the outer wall...so the stans valve nor the mavic valve falls thru) my solution was to make my own valve and use silicone around it area. but once this was done it worked, just lots of trial and error to get it. good luck
  • 12-28-2009
    alan762
    I'm having the same problem you are with the Giant P29's. I sent off an email to Stan's and this was their reply, "We have tested you rim and no rim strip will work. The rim is not designed quite right for tubeless use. In order to make it work we built the center drop channel up with several layers of 15mm Velox rim tape then installed one layer of my 25mm yellow spoke tape to seal the rim. We then used my 44mm road valve stems.

    Not a user friendly rim. If you just use my yellow spoke tape the tire fits so loose inflating is almost impossible."

    I might go with this method although I sent off an email to the place I bought the bike and supposedly he found a "ghetto" way to do it too. He hasn't written me back yet though so I'm not sure if it's any different than the ways already listed. Personally I plan on following the "ghetto" way with Gorilla Tape unless one of the other two ways sounds easier. I'll keep you updated if anything works.
  • 12-28-2009
    Superbike373
    I used Gorilla tape and valves cut from tubes with 2 scoops of stans. Over 3 months and no problems at all with this sytem. That yellow tape is junk compared to the Gorrilla tape. It conforms to the rim way better that tubless rim tape. Cheap too! The Stock tires work fine tubeless as well. This worked well for me.
  • 12-29-2009
    alan762
    Well it looks like I successfully did the ghetto conversion for the p29 rims but it turned out to be a little more complicated than I'd hoped for. I'll try to be as detailed as possible. It took me a couple attempts to come up with this procedure as the regular "ghetto" gorilla tape method didn't make a good seal and the tires leaked like crazy.

    1. Removed original rim strip
    2. Applied a layer of electrical tape to seal the rim
    3. Cut a presta valve from Q-tube brand inner tube (has removable core)
    4. Cut tube around valve to fit inside deep part of p29 rim
    5. Cut X in electrical tape at valve hole
    6. Applied black silicone sealant (automotive) to internal rim side of presta valve and screwed tight; wiped excess away.
    7. Applied about 12 in. of electrical tape over valve and part of rim CUTTING a hole for air flow (tried an X cut but air pressure forced tape to lose seal causing leaks).
    8. Applied length of 1/2 X 1/4 in. strip insulation around rim except valve core area. Remove stiff white backing and slightly strech the insulation, make sure it is centered in the groove.
    9. Cut length of Gorilla Tape approximately 12 in. longer than the diameter of the tire.
    10. Cut gorilla tape lengthwise in half. (Use the other half for the other tire)
    11. Cut a hole with scissors (actual hole not an X!) in gorilla tape about 6 inches from end and line that up with presta valve and begin wrapping tape around tire. When you get to the presta valve again near the end cut another hole that lines up with the valve. Keep tape tight and centered! Take your time cause once the tape touches the insulation it will not let go!
    12. Run finger along center of rim to make sure it is seated firmly on the insulation.
    13. Use a tire removal tool run along the edges to make sure the tape is seated firmly and flat around the entire rim.
    14. Mount tire
    15. Apply soapy water around inside of rim/tire bead on both sides. Try to pull the tire against the sides as much as possible.
    16. Inflate tire to 60psi. Even without sealant it should have minimal air leakage. If there is a strong leak, try to get it sealed/stopped before going further.
    17. Unmount part of tire.
    18. Pour in Stan's tire sealant (I used 2 1/2 cups and also added glitter, never tried it but some say it works well)
    19. Mount and inflate tire to about 60 PSI. Listen for tire to lock.
    20. Shake and turn tire.
    21. Set on bucket, one side down then the other. Shaking every few minutes
    22. Enjoy tubeless tire.

    A couple notes and explanations. I cut holes in the tape instead of just X's cause the air pressure was so great that it was lifting the tape and causeing a failure in the tape's ability to seal the spokes. I added silicone sealant because just tightening the valve wasn't fully sealing it, partly due to the oversized inside hole in the rim at the valve. The original layer of electrical tape protects the rim from the sealant (and having to scrape it off later). The insulation was very important. Because of the deep V of the p29 rim, the Gorilla Tape was too narrow to get a good seat on the edges of the rim near the sides. Plus it was hard to avoid air bubbles and tightness in the tape because of the groove. With the filler material it ended up creating a much tighter bond between the tape and the rim. I know it seams overly complicated but it seems to work. Personally I can't wait until Stan's comes up with a strip that will accomidate the p29 so I can get rid of all the other crap! Feel free to ask for any questions, or criticize the method. It's weird but it works.
  • 12-29-2009
    metelhead
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by alan762
    Well it looks like I successfully did the ghetto conversion for the p29 rims but it turned out to be a little more complicated than I'd hoped for. I'll try to be as detailed as possible. It took me a couple attempts to come up with this procedure as the regular "ghetto" gorilla tape method didn't make a good seal and the tires leaked like crazy.

    1. Removed original rim strip
    2. Applied a layer of electrical tape to seal the rim
    3. Cut a presta valve from Q-tube brand inner tube (has removable core)
    4. Cut tube around valve to fit inside deep part of p29 rim
    5. Cut X in electrical tape at valve hole
    6. Applied black silicone sealant (automotive) to internal rim side of presta valve and screwed tight; wiped excess away.
    7. Applied about 12 in. of electrical tape over valve and part of rim CUTTING a hole for air flow (tried an X cut but air pressure forced tape to lose seal causing leaks).
    8. Applied length of 1/2 X 1/4 in. strip insulation around rim except valve core area. Remove stiff white backing and slightly strech the insulation, make sure it is centered in the groove.
    9. Cut length of Gorilla Tape approximately 12 in. longer than the diameter of the tire.
    10. Cut gorilla tape lengthwise in half. (Use the other half for the other tire)
    11. Cut a hole with scissors (actual hole not an X!) in gorilla tape about 6 inches from end and line that up with presta valve and begin wrapping tape around tire. When you get to the presta valve again near the end cut another hole that lines up with the valve. Keep tape tight and centered! Take your time cause once the tape touches the insulation it will not let go!
    12. Run finger along center of rim to make sure it is seated firmly on the insulation.
    13. Use a tire removal tool run along the edges to make sure the tape is seated firmly and flat around the entire rim.
    14. Mount tire
    15. Apply soapy water around inside of rim/tire bead on both sides. Try to pull the tire against the sides as much as possible.
    16. Inflate tire to 60psi. Even without sealant it should have minimal air leakage. If there is a strong leak, try to get it sealed/stopped before going further.
    17. Unmount part of tire.
    18. Pour in Stan's tire sealant (I used 2 1/2 cups and also added glitter, never tried it but some say it works well)
    19. Mount and inflate tire to about 60 PSI. Listen for tire to lock.
    20. Shake and turn tire.
    21. Set on bucket, one side down then the other. Shaking every few minutes
    22. Enjoy tubeless tire.

    A couple notes and explanations. I cut holes in the tape instead of just X's cause the air pressure was so great that it was lifting the tape and causeing a failure in the tape's ability to seal the spokes. I added silicone sealant because just tightening the valve wasn't fully sealing it, partly due to the oversized inside hole in the rim at the valve. The original layer of electrical tape protects the rim from the sealant (and having to scrape it off later). The insulation was very important. Because of the deep V of the p29 rim, the Gorilla Tape was too narrow to get a good seat on the edges of the rim near the sides. Plus it was hard to avoid air bubbles and tightness in the tape because of the groove. With the filler material it ended up creating a much tighter bond between the tape and the rim. I know it seams overly complicated but it seems to work. Personally I can't wait until Stan's comes up with a strip that will accomidate the p29 so I can get rid of all the other crap! Feel free to ask for any questions, or criticize the method. It's weird but it works.

    creative solution to a challenging problem! well done!
  • 12-29-2009
    dgaddis1
    Sounds heavy.
  • 12-29-2009
    alan762
    Yeah it probably is heavy for a tubeless set-up but if you want the benefits of tubeless, like low pressure's, with the p29 there's no real good choice out there yet. Plus it's not like the p29 is a light rim to begin with.
  • 12-29-2009
    metelhead
    someone suggested using the Bontrager rim strips for another hard fitting rim...I wonder if these would be a good solution for these?
    http://bontrager.com/model/02566
  • 01-11-2010
    Yorto
    I have been running ghetto for a week no major issues at this stage BUT.

    Does anyone have issues running ghetto setup where the sealant leaks very very slowly near the bead ?
    I must admit that I think it is just from my weight on the rear that is doing it but would be good to hear what others have to say etc..

    I haven't lost much psi at all. Running them just under 40.

  • 01-11-2010
    slowridemo
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by metelhead
    someone suggested using the Bontrager rim strips for another hard fitting rim...I wonder if these would be a good solution for these?
    http://bontrager.com/model/02566

    A friend and I put one of my bontrager strips into his P29 rim. There were significant gaps on each side so we didn't try any further. The P29 is noticeably wider than the Rhythm/Duster rims.
  • 01-11-2010
    Yorto
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by slowridemo
    A friend and I put one of my bontrager strips into his P29 rim. There were significant gaps on each side so we didn't try any further. The P29 is noticeably wider than the Rhythm/Duster rims.

    Have you tried any other ones ? Let me know if you get one successfully in the rim and seals good! I have tried to ask a few different LBS but no one has really said much at all.
  • 01-11-2010
    MagicCarpet
    Yorto

    The LBS won't say much about tubeless because they don't want to take on any problems you encounter in what can sometimes be a pretty hit and miss thing.

    I really think you are running too much pressure and are risking a blow off at just under 40psi. You should never run ghetto tubeless above 30psi in my opinion and you will not recieve the full benefits of tubeless even at 30. The only tyre I'd run at anywhere near 40 would be a very tight wire bead commuter tyre and even then I'd be concerned at first.

    That may be why your bead is not sealing perfectly too. Drop that pressure before it drops you.
  • 01-12-2010
    formulaone33
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Yorto
    I have been running ghetto for a week no major issues at this stage BUT.

    Does anyone have issues running ghetto setup where the sealant leaks very very slowly near the bead ?
    I must admit that I think it is just from my weight on the rear that is doing it but would be good to hear what others have to say etc..

    I haven't lost much psi at all. Running them just under 40.


    Did you do the shake the wheel and lay it on its side for a few minutes when you set your wheels up? Then repest for the other side?

    I took 2 Q-tubes (long presta valve, removeable core 24x2.125 size). I cut them, washed them to take the talc off, strechted them over my buddies XTC1 29er wheels, mounted the stock Karma's, aired them up with a compressor, added stans througn the valve core, aired them up again and he has been riding them for a few weeks with no trouble at all.

    I dont know what all the fuss is about...it was easy. Just like any other rim.
  • 01-12-2010
    Yorto
    Yeah shook them and done what I was told to do in the many of videos and threads I have read hahaha. Q tubes might be the way to go as I just got the stock standard 26" tube with the 60m valve. Are they available online somewhere I can get them from ? I haven't been able to find the 24" ones as I think they might be better then using the 26" tube.

    I will give it a go running at 30psi but for my weight (130kg) I am a bit worried about the tyre coming off. Thanks again.

    EDIT: http://smartbikeparts.com/search_details.php?itm=TU6838
    Are there any other online places that have the 24" presta removable valve ? but isnt a short valve :( That is the best I have been able to find so far. The best I can find is http://www.niagaracycle.com/product_...ucts_id=423929 BUT it doesn't ship to Australia.

    Searching some more I found these http://www.deanwoods.com.au/store/prod2323.htm So by rights if I can't find a 24" tube PV (removable) 60mm valve I can just use the 32mm (removable) valve and use an extender right ? I am guessing that would mean removing the valve from the tube and just screwing the extender on ? Hmm interesting.
  • 01-12-2010
    MagicCarpet
    Perhaps a post in the clydesdale forum could be worth while. You have a point about 130kg and 30psi, but I am also certain that 40 is too much for a ghetto set up. It is possible that you could benefit from a propper UST tyre until the weight comes off.

    I am sorry if I have mislead you regarding the pressures and would say someone like BruceBrown or someone in the clyde forum may be able to help more.

    My personal experience does include a 40psi blow of though as a 100kg rider. You seem to have already put them through their paces at that pressure. Mine lasted 30minutes.

    I hope I haven't mislead you. Best of luck.
  • 01-12-2010
    Yorto
    MagicCarpet I do appreciate your help. I think I mislead myself sometimes but in your case no not at all. I get the idea behind everything just need to piece it all together and make a judgement for myself.

    Thanks again :)
  • 01-12-2010
    MagicCarpet
    No worries, mate. I really try never to post unless I have a question or a genuine personal experience to share. I advised you without knowing all the facts and now fear jeopardising your safety, when I was trying to preserve it based on my own 40 psi blow off.

    Hopefully someone who has personal knowledge regarding weight and pressure will respond soon. Until then , stay safe and thanks for not judging my intentions harshly.
  • 01-12-2010
    MagicCarpet
    Yorto

    This is a thread titles only search for "tubeless in the clydesdale/tall rider forum:
    http://forums.mtbr.com/search.php?searchid=8887510

    I haven't read any of them. Hopefully some usefull info in there.
  • 01-12-2010
    MagicCarpet
    Wtf
  • 01-12-2010
    MagicCarpet
    Woops
  • 01-12-2010
    eatsleepbikes
    I am running a ghetto setup on a different rim and when mounting the tires instead of
    lubing it up with soap and water I use some stans and run around and wet the rim edges
    and the bead on the tire add a couple scoops in the tire and air it up. After coming up
    with this idea it seals the first time and I don't even have to do the shake thing to it and
    it also glues the tire to the rim when it sets up. It will come off the rim but you do have to
    put a little pressure on the tire to get it loose. I like the way it is secured to the rim this way. My rims were not recomended for tubless but it has worked great for over a year and
    have gone through two sets of tires.
  • 01-13-2010
    breyn22
    Just did my Gorilla Tape ghetto tubeless yesterday. So far, so good . . . checked it when I got home from work today and is still holding air perfectly. Haven't gotten to try a ride with it yet, hopefully I'll get a chance this weekend.

    BTW I used the method discussed in this thread, was easy and relatively cheap:

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=552064

    Edit: FWIW I used the stock Karma's too.
  • 01-13-2010
    onlycrimson
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Superbike373
    I used Gorilla tape and valves cut from tubes with 2 scoops of stans. Over 3 months and no problems at all with this sytem. That yellow tape is junk compared to the Gorrilla tape. It conforms to the rim way better that tubless rim tape. Cheap too! The Stock tires work fine tubeless as well. This worked well for me.


    x2 There isn't any reason that shouldn't work.
  • 02-15-2010
    paarlmtb
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by breyn22
    Just did my Gorilla Tape ghetto tubeless yesterday. So far, so good . . . checked it when I got home from work today and is still holding air perfectly. Haven't gotten to try a ride with it yet, hopefully I'll get a chance this weekend.

    BTW I used the method discussed in this thread, was easy and relatively cheap:

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=552064

    Edit: FWIW I used the stock Karma's too.

    How is the conversion working for you?

    Have you perhaps done the burp test shown on Stans?

    You can probably tell that i'm trying to protect "the Rollers" frame finish for as long as possible - by staying upright!!!
  • 02-15-2010
    breyn22
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by paarlmtb
    How is the conversion working for you?

    Have you perhaps done the burp test shown on Stans?

    You can probably tell that i'm trying to protect "the Rollers" frame finish for as long as possible - by staying upright!!!

    So far so good, though due to the weather in my area I've only gotten 2 rides in during the last month.
  • 12-21-2010
    pamt
    Anyone have any updates on converting this wheel....... success/failure?
  • 12-21-2010
    Duke of Earl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by metelhead
    someone suggested using the Bontrager rim strips for another hard fitting rim...I wonder if these would be a good solution for these?
    http://bontrager.com/model/02566

    I had luck setting up my 26" version of this rim profile using a bontrager Rhythm rim strip and valve with some stans. Holding air just fine and has been for nearly a year.
  • 12-21-2010
    ImaFred
    my friend has these wheels(29") and has had no problems with a 26" tube sliced then stans and a tire....trim the excess tube off after its all beaded up....dont know why everyone is having to be this creative
  • 12-22-2010
    pamt
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ImaFred
    my friend has these wheels(29") and has had no problems with a 26" tube sliced then stans and a tire....trim the excess tube off after its all beaded up....dont know why everyone is having to be this creative

    That's good to know. I got this bike back in October and decided to just keep the tubes in for the winter then convert in the spring. After reading some of the negative comments about converting I was going to swap out the rims but I really like the P29's and they seem like they will hold up so I guess I will give it a shot