Fox 15mm Replaced by 20mm ?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
    Rider and Wrench
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    Fox 15mm Replaced by 20mm ?

    I am debating between a reba 20mm and a FOX 15mm 120mm Fork- I have been doing some research and found some heresay that Fox will be going to a 20mm in 2011... I can't find much legit info on this but would love any feedback on it before I drop any cash-

    Thanks
    I Just wish I could ride more!


  2. #2
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    I am not sure about fox/shimano going 20mm, but it makes sense. I would go with the reba 20mm. I had the 26" version and loved it. I upgraded to a 20mm revelation and love it too.

  3. #3
    Harmonius Wrench
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    My understanding was that Fox was marketing the 15QR as a way to "classify" a forks use to OEM's and aftermarket buyers. So, for instance, a 15QR fork would be XC/Trail use oriented and a 20mm thru-axle would signify a Fox fork made for FR/AM use or DH use.

    This doesn't quite make sense in terms of how Marzocchi is doing things, with the 44 being up to a 140mm travel, maybe, but no one has anything over this travel for a 29"er suspension fork that is using a 15QR standard........yet.

    It may be true that Fox is going to do a 20mm thru-axle suspension fork for a 29"er, and if they are, I am betting it will be a 150mm travel fork with 36mm stanchions. That's purely speculation on my part.

    Don't look for them to ditch the 15QR for shorter travel forks. There is way to much invested in that to abandon it now, especially with all the hub makers support.
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  4. #4
    Glass Breaker
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    GT,

    Do you know why the flange width of a 15QR is 100 mm vs. the 110 mm of a 20 mm thru axle? It seemed like a no brainer to me to go with a wider flange width for wheel strength when designing a new platform, but maybe a FEA model told them otherwise...

    Thanks.

  5. #5
    Doesntplaywellwithmorons!
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    Because the flange width isn't 100mm or 110mm. The flange widths vary hub maker to maker, but typically for a disc front hub the actual flanges are around 60mm apart regardless of the dropout spacing. And that is what the 110/100 number is... the distance between the dropouts. It has nothing to do with having a wider flange at all and I'm not sure how that myth got started but it should have been an obvious thing to anyone who can actually read that it didn't involve the flanges. The reason the 15QR uses the same 100mm dropout spacing as 9QR is both for weight savings (no need for extra length end caps on the hubs to space them out for the wider standard) and simplifying tooling and design. If they'd increased the spacing, they'd have had to majorly redesign not only the lowers but the fork crowns as well because the legs would sit further apart. As it is, the 15mm axle perfectly suited many hub makers that ran cartridge bearings because many were already using bearings with a 15mm inside diameter, and 15mm axles (with 9mm dropout ends). Chin Haur made hubs for example (so WTB, American Classic, Ritchey, A2Z, Rotaz, and others) do this so all you need is new hub end caps and to remove the stock axle and you have a hub in the new format.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by agentorangemen
    GT,

    Do you know why the flange width of a 15QR is 100 mm vs. the 110 mm of a 20 mm thru axle? It seemed like a no brainer to me to go with a wider flange width for wheel strength when designing a new platform, but maybe a FEA model told them otherwise...

    Thanks.
    The 100mm. for 15QR (and standard QR) does not refer to flange spacing. Nor does 110mm. for 20mm. Thru Axle. Those measurements refer to axle width. There is in fact very little difference in flange spacing. For example, 15QR (Shimano XT HB-778) has 60mm. between flanges. 20mm. Thru Axle (Shimano XT HB-776) has 61.6mm. between flanges.

    Ronnie.
    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

  7. #7
    Glass Breaker
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    So to summarize, Fox didn't want to design new crowns, hubs were designed around 15 mm ID bearings, and typical hub flange widths do not take advantage of the available fork drop out spacing.

    I guess I can read, but did type flange width when referring to drop out spacing by mistake.

    How's that 650b San Andreas working out for you?

  8. #8
    Doesntplaywellwithmorons!
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    Never built it, the swingarm didn't clear the tire, I ended up buying a taiwanese-made hardtail to test the size out, then got a Haro Beasley 1x9 frame, and am currently building a taiwanese-made carbon/Al horst-link 4 bar full suspension which clears the neo-motos, weighs 5.3 pounds (with shock), and has 4" of travel. Oh and its an Extra Large size frame too.

  9. #9
    Let's ride
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    Wonder if it was due to Shimano being centered around their own centerlock, which will only accommodate 15, and not so easily the 20mm. Another chance to establish yet another standard. :-(

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by rensho
    Wonder if it was due to Shimano being centered around their own centerlock, which will only accommodate 15, and not so easily the 20mm. Another chance to establish yet another standard. :-(
    Huh! Here's a Shimano 20mm. Thru Axle with a Centerlock.

    Ronnie.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Fox 15mm Replaced by 20mm ?-img_2473.jpg  

    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

  11. #11
    The Vandal strikes again
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    GT, I'm thinking what you're thinking. With Intense bringing the long travel Tracer 29 to market with no obvious fork alternatives to the Marzocchi 44 (ugh!) I tend to think that one of the other fork makers is working behind the scenes on an appropriate 150mm fork.
    As for 20mm centrelock, there are XT and XTR versions available too. Big flanges, great for 29er wheels.
    '99 Safari

  12. #12
    You know, for kids
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie
    Huh! Here's a Shimano 20mm. Thru Axle with a Centerlock.

    Ronnie.
    I believe the Saint front hub centerlock is bigger to accomodate the 20mm

    I do know that DT Swiss 240s front centerlock is not compatible with 20mm and you have to buy the oversize 240s front hub which has 6-bolt mounting
    disclaimer: I sell and repair bicycles

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by madcap
    I believe the Saint front hub centerlock is bigger to accomodate the 20mm

    I do know that DT Swiss 240s front centerlock is not compatible with 20mm and you have to buy the oversize 240s front hub which has 6-bolt mounting
    That is my front wheel and it's a standard Centerlock rotor. It is the same specification as XT and XTR. The same rotor will fit on any QR15 or a 9mm. QR. The current Saint series M810 is the same as all others. The older M800 had larger fittings.

    Ronnie.
    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

  14. #14
    Harmonius Wrench
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    Quote Originally Posted by barticus
    GT, I'm thinking what you're thinking. With Intense bringing the long travel Tracer 29 to market with no obvious fork alternatives to the Marzocchi 44 (ugh!) I tend to think that one of the other fork makers is working behind the scenes on an appropriate 150mm fork.
    As for 20mm centrelock, there are XT and XTR versions available too. Big flanges, great for 29er wheels.
    I'm sure Intense stands to benefit from such a fork, should it appear, but I am thinking a bigger company may be behind this. Some company with some horsepower monetarily that is fronting the $$$'s to have it made, if it is being made.

    Keep in mind that Fisher Bikes fronted Fox all the money to tool up for the first 29'er Fox forks. That's why Fisher had a first year exclusive, and going back to the original Reba, which Fisher also subsidized, when Fisher had a year exclusive on that fork. That longer travel Fox isn't going to come out just because Fox wants to test the waters.
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  15. #15
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    2011 Fox lineup? Those will be available in what? About 2 months? Their model year starts earlier than even Gary Fisher.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie
    Huh! Here's a Shimano 20mm. Thru Axle with a Centerlock.

    Ronnie.
    I'm very sure you should know S has 2 CL standards, big and small.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by rensho
    I'm very sure you should know S has 2 CL standards, big and small.
    Not anymore with current groups.

    Ronnie.
    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

  18. #18
    Is that Bill rated?
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    Try and find any oversize centrelock rotors anymore. Last years Saint reintroduction nixxed the oversize centrelock and replaced the lock ring with one that is gripped externally rather than internally to clear the larger axle. I have two sets of hubs using the older oversize centrelock rotors so I consider myself fairly conversant on the situation.

    In any event, the 15QR decision had nothing to do with centrelock as the regular CL rotors can be fit to 20mm hubs.
    Well, it was a good try.

  19. #19
    You know, for kids
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie
    That is my front wheel and it's a standard Centerlock rotor. It is the same specification as XT and XTR. The same rotor will fit on any QR15 or a 9mm. QR. The current Saint series M810 is the same as all others. The older M800 had larger fittings.

    Ronnie.

    well, I just learned something new

    I guess I have not been paying much attention to Shimano the past couple of years, specifically the Saint line. The local terrain doesn't demand burly equipment like the Saint line, so we don't see much of it at all.
    disclaimer: I sell and repair bicycles

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by madcap
    well, I just learned something new

    I guess I have not been paying much attention to Shimano the past couple of years, specifically the Saint line. The local terrain doesn't demand burly equipment like the Saint line, so we don't see much of it at all.
    The Saints are well worth taking a look at. My first intention when planning this bike was to go for Shimano XT. Most of the other components are XT. However, I had a dilemma. I had decided that I no longer want to use any QR hubs, front and back. XT has a front 20mm. Thru Axle but the rear hubs are still QR. Saint however has both 150mm. and 135mm. Thru bolt hubs, also with 10mm. or 12mm. axles.

    When I compared the XT hubs to the Saint on the Shimano website, I was surprised to find that the Saint is lighter than the XT. Using the Saint therefore was a no-brainer for me. If it is tougher, then it's a bonus.

    Ronnie.
    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by knottshore
    I am debating between a reba 20mm and a FOX 15mm 120mm Fork- I have been doing some research and found some heresay that Fox will be going to a 20mm in 2011... I can't find much legit info on this but would love any feedback on it before I drop any cash-

    Thanks
    yrmv,etc.
    After running them both 15mm Talas and 20mm maxle lite Reba 29 I much prefer the mlite for ease of installation and removal. If that were the only factor I would go Reba every time. (I get sick of doing the 15mm qr, when maxle is so quick and easy, not that 15mm is terrible but mlite is quick and easier imho.)
    That said, after switching back to qr Talas from the 15mm Talas (in for service) I kept stopping to check and make sure my headset or something was not loose. Love the 15mm Talas by comparison. (wonder what the upcharge will be on the new Kashima stanchion coating.)
    Btw, weighing both thru axle qr's (15mm & 20mm mlite) I got almost the same weight on a digital scale which is interesting since the mlite = 25% larger. There is a pretty long thread comparing Reba 29 and Fox F29 around here. Love the Reba 29er's options.
    Last edited by ghawk; 02-26-2010 at 05:01 AM.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by madcap
    well, I just learned something new

    I guess I have not been paying much attention to Shimano the past couple of years, specifically the Saint line. The local terrain doesn't demand burly equipment like the Saint line, so we don't see much of it at all.
    Me too.

    I got some xtr960 hubs that look a whole lot smaller than 20mm around the CL area, but if they fit, they fit.

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