Final choice for wheelset - advice- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Final choice for wheelset - advice

    Hey guys,
    Believe me i've searched all over and read most the threads regarding the various rims, etc I've been debating between but I was hoping I could get some feedback by you that have experience.

    I'm 165lb's and ride on rugged trails. I'd like the lightest possible set but also don't want to worry about the rims falling apart on me. I will be riding between full rigid and perhaps a suspension fork - but rigid for now. Northeast riding mostly with the occasional vacation to mtb hot spots around the country like Moab, pisgah, etc.

    I'll be using a 32H/36H King ISO in the rear and an a.c. disc lite up front.

    Basically, doing it all over which wheelset would you pick?

    Through all the reading I've narrowed it down and am leaning towards:

    Velocity Dyad with 14/15g db wheelsmith 32H front/rear. different spokes maybe?

    also considering the IRD Cadence with 36H?? in the rear and 32H up front. my wheelbuilder thinks these will not be strong enough but others here seem to have no issues. worth the risk??

    thanks for your opinons!

  2. #2
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    I would maybe consider the bontrager mustang disk, the dt tk.1, or a ritchey. The dyads are cool and fairly inexpensive but they don't have eyelets. I think for disk use eyelets are important, otherwise I'd maybe run some stan's rims.

  3. #3
    giddy up!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookykinkajou
    Hey guys,
    Believe me i've searched all over and read most the threads regarding the various rims, etc I've been debating between but I was hoping I could get some feedback by you that have experience.

    I'm 165lb's and ride on rugged trails. I'd like the lightest possible set but also don't want to worry about the rims falling apart on me. I will be riding between full rigid and perhaps a suspension fork - but rigid for now. Northeast riding mostly with the occasional vacation to mtb hot spots around the country like Moab, pisgah, etc.

    I'll be using a 32H/36H King ISO in the rear and an a.c. disc lite up front.

    Basically, doing it all over which wheelset would you pick?

    Through all the reading I've narrowed it down and am leaning towards:

    Velocity Dyad with 14/15g db wheelsmith 32H front/rear. different spokes maybe?

    also considering the IRD Cadence with 36H?? in the rear and 32H up front. my wheelbuilder thinks these will not be strong enough but others here seem to have no issues. worth the risk??

    thanks for your opinons!
    I have been using salsa del gados, ritchey OCR and alex td-17. I am super impressed by all three of them and would recommend them.

    The dyads seem to be a little under-spec in the diameter department but otherwise seem to be a good choice.

    If you're going disc the td-17 look really clean.

    B
    www.thepathbikeshop.com

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by donkey
    I have been using salsa del gados, ritchey OCR and alex td-17. I am super impressed by all three of them and would recommend them.

    The dyads seem to be a little under-spec in the diameter department but otherwise seem to be a good choice.

    If you're going disc the td-17 look really clean.

    B
    I must've missed the part about no eyelets in my readings. I'm definitely running them with discs. Back to the drawing board it seems...

    Originally I wanted the stan's but they won't be available for at least 1.5 to 2 months.

  5. #5
    The Duuude, man...
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    Why haven't you considered Mavic?

    The A719 is the new T520. Decent weight, bullet proof strength, looks good, eyelets, silver or black, ~60 bucks.

    <img border=2 img src="https://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-10/867718/frontwheel.jpg">
    FS: Everything

  6. #6
    indigosky
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    Quote Originally Posted by donkey

    If you're going disc the td-17 look really clean.

    B
    I'm running the TD-17's on both my xt wheelset and my new CK ISO. Very clean and pretty damn strong. Not exactly light, but worth it for Maine terrain. They build up straight and are eyeletted.

    Got any bids on the Monolith yet? So tempting...

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by indigosky
    I'm running the TD-17's on both my xt wheelset and my new CK ISO. Very clean and pretty damn strong. Not exactly light, but worth it for Maine terrain. They build up straight and are eyeletted.

    Got any bids on the Monolith yet? So tempting...
    Does the bontrager mustang actually weigh the 460gms speedgoat says it weighs??

    and re: monolith...None surprisingly although there are quite a few people watching it, fwiw. They may just be curious to see what it goes for!

    even the BIN is a total steal...

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncj01
    The A719 is the new T520. Decent weight, bullet proof strength, looks good, eyelets, silver or black, ~60 bucks.

    <img border=2 img src="https://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-10/867718/frontwheel.jpg">
    I was unaware they even made one. I found most the wheels names by browsing speedgoats rim list(most say 29" by them) then searching on here for info re: each one.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by donkey
    If you're going disc the td-17 look really clean.
    I had a TD-17 built up for the front of my buzzbomb, and even running real low pressure, haven't had any pinch flats - the '17s are labeled as anti-snakebite, and it does seem to work... gonna have my Rohloff put into one soon.

  10. #10
    The Duuude, man...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookykinkajou
    I was unaware they even made one. I found most the wheels names by browsing speedgoats rim list(most say 29" by them) then searching on here for info re: each one.
    They're mighty tastey.
    FS: Everything

  11. #11
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    but are they slippery?

    Hey ncj01-

    NICE NIPPLES!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by heavyg
    Hey ncj01-

    NICE NIPPLES!
    simma' down!!
    FS: Everything

  13. #13
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    Real weights as far as I know them, from the top of my head :

    Alex TD17 Disc-Only anti-snakebite : 555g
    Bontrager Mustang : 480-490g
    Mavic 519-520-A719 : 565g
    Velocity Dyad (480g claimed) : 506g (mine, selected from factory) to 540g.
    Salsa Delgado Cross : 515-525g
    Rigida ZAC2000 : 555g
    Rigida Taurus 2000 Disc-only : 520g (26-27mm wide!)
    Sun Rhino Lite : 605g (?)
    Vuelta Airline : 705g (wide, no eyelits, punched inner spokeholes)
    Notubes 29" : 390-402g (24+mm, tubeless-specific rim hooks)

    Mavic A317 Disc - Seems to exist OEM, who knows it?
    And last year there was a lighter, narrower Mavic offering, 23-24mm I seem to recall?
    Klok - XC - Skate - Ski

  14. #14
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    Best quality from Bontrager

    I have found the Bontrager rims to be excellent and build up so easily and straight with really even spoke tension. They are eyeleted and feature the OSB (offset spoke bed) which helps even out the spoke tension due to the wheels dish. Turn the rim around up front and pretty much even out the spoke tension differential you get with disc hubs also.

    I have weighed quite a few and found them to be between 465-480grams. As rim extrusion dyes wear out the rims can start getting a bit heavier. And they are very durable also, no issues at all.

    Brad
    [email protected]

  15. #15
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    Bontrager Mustang

    Any Trek dealer can get you the Mustangs. Light, strong, great looks, easy choice.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wily
    I have found the Bontrager rims to be excellent and build up so easily and straight with really even spoke tension.
    I agree with your comments on Bontrager rims. I'm using Mustangs. They only have a a few hundred miles on them but they're working great. From the moment I opened the package, I knew I made the right choice - light and well made.

    If it helps the original poster - I'm running 32H Mustangs w/ 14/15/14 DT spokes and XT hubs. Disk in the front, V brake in the rear. I decided on the non-offset version this time around but I would consider them if I need to build another set....however, there was only 1mm spoke length difference between disk and non-disk sides.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Mega
    I agree with your comments on Bontrager rims. I'm using Mustangs. They only have a a few hundred miles on them but they're working great. From the moment I opened the package, I knew I made the right choice - light and well made.

    If it helps the original poster - I'm running 32H Mustangs w/ 14/15/14 DT spokes and XT hubs. Disk in the front, V brake in the rear. I decided on the non-offset version this time around but I would consider them if I need to build another set....however, there was only 1mm spoke length difference between disk and non-disk sides.

    excuse me if this is a stupid question, but would you want the off set rim for both the front and rear or just the rear?

  18. #18
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    I still say that the Cane Creek Kronos wheelset is the lightest out there and plenty strong. They have been tested here in CB by some pretty strong riders during the last year. Contact Cane Creek for more details.
    A bike by any other name is still a bike.

  19. #19
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    Dyads=Best Name

    I'm using the 32 hole version with 160mm disks with no problems but we don't have big hills in these parts either. I do like to skid tho (on gravel that is...)

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookykinkajou
    excuse me if this is a stupid question, but would you want the off set rim for both the front and rear or just the rear?
    Well, I've found that offset rims are less relevant if you are using disk hubs. That's why I went with the standard drilling. Most common is an offset rim in the rear (obviously) - but some use an offset rim in the front too if they are using disk hubs (flipped, I believe). As I said, my spokes were supposed to be only 1mm difference between longer and shorter side. That's pretty close. I'd be curious to plug the dims of the offset rim into spocalc and see what I get.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookykinkajou
    excuse me if this is a stupid question, but would you want the off set rim for both the front and rear or just the rear?
    If you are using disc hubs, then yes you want the offset rim for both front and rear. With a disc front hub the left side flange is pushed in a bit, which builds a rim with some dish and the resulting uneven spoke tension. If you flig the offset rim around (with the spoke holes closer to the right side of the rim - opposite of using it in the rear), you can almost eliminate all the dish in the front wheel and build a stronger wheel.

    If you are just using a regular front hub and v-brakes, then you would just use a regular rim then.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wily
    If you are using disc hubs, then yes you want the offset rim for both front and rear. With a disc front hub the left side flange is pushed in a bit, which builds a rim with some dish and the resulting uneven spoke tension. If you flig the offset rim around (with the spoke holes closer to the right side of the rim - opposite of using it in the rear), you can almost eliminate all the dish in the front wheel and build a stronger wheel.

    If you are just using a regular front hub and v-brakes, then you would just use a regular rim then.
    Thanks for all the help everyone!

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wily
    If you are using disc hubs, then yes you want the offset rim for both front and rear.
    When you run a disk hub in the rear the offset isn't as important as with a regular hub. The non-drive side flange for a disk rear hub is offset to make room for the rotor. This makes it a lot closer to the offset on the drive side. Not exact but much closer than with a regular hub. Thus you get similar spoke lengths, easier dish, and more even tension. So, IMHO, they are less important for rear disk applications. I'm willing to listen if you have a real concrete reasons for using this combo .

    As far as fronts go, I believe an offset rim can help eliminate some dish when you are building w/ a disk hub. However, a normal 32H 3x laced to disk hub (w/ equal flanges) usually only has .5 to 2mm (absolute tops) spoke length difference...that's not a lot. Is there a point where an offset rim is just going to swap your spoke lengths (ie: instead of 1mm longer on the non-disk side, you now have 1mm longer on the disk side)? IMHO, it seems like using an offset rim on the front is pointless if you can't get the same spoke length for both sides and are just swapping which side has shorter spokes.

    I'm totally willing to listen to other opinions on this but I would like it be based on fact. Meaning: "offset allows me to get even length spokes and even tension every time here's why....."

    I really need to just plug the numbers into spocalc but I'm a little lazy today.

    I loved building bomber rear v-brake wheels w/ offset mustangs but my spoke lengths are so close with regular drilled rims and disk hubs - I'm not sold on the need....yet.

  24. #24
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    I just re-read Wily's original message and it's pretty clear and addresses some of the things I was asking about.

    I guess what I'm looking for is some re-inforcement that people have built rear disk wheels with the OSB and they were better than the regular drilling because of the spok length and tension...it just seems that if they were perfect for V Brake applications then using them in disk applications would be off...Perhaps there's a difference OSB drilling for disk and V brake wheels? Hmmmm.......

  25. #25
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    spoke angle difference with OSB rims

    Here is an example of a recent wheelbuild I did

    WTB LaserDisc Lite hubs, built 3x w/ 32 spokes

    Without an OSB rim
    front wheel: left bracing angle 4.9degree, right 6.6degree
    rear wheel: left bracing angle 5.5degree, right 4.4 degree

    using an OSB rim
    front wheel: left 5.4 degree, right 6.1 degree
    rear wheel: left 5.0 degree, right 4.9 degree


    the larger the difference in spoke bracing angle, the greater the tension difference between left and right side spokes. More even tension just builds a stronger wheel (everything else being equal) that is less likely to go out of true. So I am a big advocate of using OSB rims both front and rear for disc, and for the rear on non-disc. Doesn't mean a regular rim is going to break on you or anything, but I enjoy building up a wheel with more even tension that i know has a better chance of staying in true even with hard abuse.


    Brad
    [email protected]

    www.wilycycles.com

  26. #26
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    I prefer Mavics. I've always had good builds and the wheels stay true. The A719's are my 29" fave. I also prefer DT spokes with DT alloy nipples. For my own personal wheels, I use Revolutions in the front wheel (14-17g), 32h and 3x. Depending on the intended use, I'll normally go with 14-15g in the rear over the Revos, but will use the alloy nipples, 32h and 3x. I've used the Revos in the rear, but was breaking drive side spokes on my singlespeed. I weigh about 185lbs. I've tried wire tying and soldering, both added some stiffness, but not sure about strength. In the 80's, I used to build a lot of 36h and 4x - especially training wheels. Both DB and straight gauge spokes. There was a noticible weight gain, especially with the 14g straights. With today's rims, I think 32h/3x with 14-15g is a pretty safe standard. I always clean the spokes and nips in solvent and then apply a liberal coat of spoke prep or grease. This allows a tighter build and will make it easier to true the wheels in the future if needed. By the way, most of my riding is cross country (no big hucks). I'd be interested in trying some of the No Tubes rims. Seem to be getting pretty good reviews.

  27. #27
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    Excellent. Makes sense and exactly what I was looking for (even if I didn't know it). I almost always used OSB rims on personal builds (rear and standard hubs) and now I can see that there is an advantage to using them on disk wheels too. I checked the angles on my recent build and they are not as close as yours. I'll try OSB next time around.

    Thanks for the reply.

  28. #28
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    I ended up getting the Dyad 32H in the rear laced to a red king ISO hub. i called a ton of places yesterday and none had the king or if they could actually get one in the near future(month or two) they weren't a trek dealer and couldn't get the bontrager rims.

    I called The Path in Tustin, CA and they had plenty of King's in stock but couldn't get the bontragers unless i bought them at retail and had them sent there. I decided to just give them a shot! nice guys out there...

    for the dyad users do you need longer than normal presta stems? is it pretty easy to get stan's larger rim strip for the dyads?

  29. #29
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    Dyads + No tubes =explosion?

    Ask some of the guys around here, but I think the Dyad has a smaller OD so they don't hold tires terribly well.
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