El Ray to Dos Niner...making me seasick- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    El Ray to Dos Niner...making me seasick

    I've been riding the El ray for a few months without saddling up the Dos Niner. I rode it yesterday and it's a noodle, sickeningly so. I'm running 36 spoke wheels so I doubt it's much wheel flex. I'm inspecting for cracks but suspect I'd know it if a crack were allowing flex.

    Anyone else experience something similar?

  2. #2
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    I have a Ventana X5 and my Santa Cruz Superlight feels super flexy after riding the X5, but I have never felt my Sir9 was flexy after riding either the Superlight or X5.
    I only ride bikes to fill the time when I'm not skiing.

  3. #3
    Harmonius Wrench
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    I don't know which version of the Dos you have, but yes, that frame is noodly. if you have some flexy bars on it, it makes it even worse. Most of it is the front triangle twisting as you pedal. (At least on mine it is.)
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  4. #4
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    Are Salsa's noodly in general? I have a La Cruz, which I like a lot, but when I went for a bike fit on it, the fitter told me it was hard to dial me in since the bottom bracket was swaying 40mm side-to-side when I pedaled "moderately" (+/- 20mm). I'm no lightweight at 230lbs, but I do notice that my El Rey is subjectively much stiffer than the La Cruz even though the El Rey is squishy and the La Cruz is rigid.

  5. #5
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    +1 on noodle frame. I used to own an 06' Dos Niner, had to get rid of it because the front triangle and BB was way too flexy. It was difficult negotiating technical rocky terrain on that bike. Now I have a Salsa El Santo... same issue but not as pronounced as the Dos.

    Overall I think all Scandium frames tends to be pretty flexy due to the thin tubing and the nature of the material.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony
    Are Salsa's noodly in general? I have a La Cruz, which I like a lot, but when I went for a bike fit on it, the fitter told me it was hard to dial me in since the bottom bracket was swaying 40mm side-to-side when I pedaled "moderately" (+/- 20mm). I'm no lightweight at 230lbs, but I do notice that my El Rey is subjectively much stiffer than the La Cruz even though the El Rey is squishy and the La Cruz is rigid.

    40mm is insane. I have a La Cruz, but I'm much lighter than you so it would be an unfair comparison. 4 cm is A LOT! Is he sure about that?

  7. #7
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    yep...i have had an El Rey and Dos Niner. Granted I didnt have the most recent model but sorry to say, cuz I like the company, it was the worst bike i ever owned, the Dos that is

    having said that, i think the softtail as a whole is amongst the top 10 most retarded inventions of all time

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by 88 rex
    40mm is insane. I have a La Cruz, but I'm much lighter than you so it would be an unfair comparison. 4 cm is A LOT! Is he sure about that?
    I dunno if I am remembering totally right, it was 18 months ago, but I know that he said it was outside the range that his tools could correct for (Boulder Center for Sports Medicine) computer data acquisition.

  9. #9
    Harmonius Wrench
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony
    I dunno if I am remembering totally right, it was 18 months ago, but I know that he said it was outside the range that his tools could correct for (Boulder Center for Sports Medicine) computer data acquisition.
    Don't doubt your fitter, but I suspect something was amiss there. The La Cruz riders I know do not see this issue. In fact, I rode the better part of 106 miles last weekend with a guy on one of those and if he had that amount of flex, the giant Schwalbe Marathon Extremes he had on it would have been rubbing the chainstays on every climb. (They never did).

    I can also vouch for the El Mariachi as being pretty stiff.

    And the Big Mama, which is also Scandium enhanced.

    I just think that the Scandium tubes on the Dos, and the way they are executed in the current design just are not up to par for folks desiring a torsionally stiff frame. A tapered steer tube, and a bottom bracket/down tube like a Big Mama would go a long way to making this rig much, much better.

    Don't be surprised to see a complete re-do of this frame in a couple years or less. Salsa is very aware of the issue.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynamic213
    Overall I think all Scandium frames tends to be pretty flexy due to the thin tubing and the nature of the material.
    I have a Scandium softail (Siren, not Salsa) and mine doesn't flex in any untoward way.

    From my understanding of it, Scandium allows the use of thinner tubing relative to standard aluminium but that doesn't mean the framebuilder will turn out a noodly frame. Salsa has all this money to toss at getting tubes custom drawn and formed, so a flexy front triangle sounds like a design decision on their part. Perhaps it's just not ideal for heavier/more powerful folk?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    yep...i have had an El Rey and Dos Niner. Granted I didnt have the most recent model but sorry to say, cuz I like the company, it was the worst bike i ever owned, the Dos that is

    having said that, i think the softtail as a whole is amongst the top 10 most retarded inventions of all time

    I always thought soft tails were the worst compromise of all. Mushy without being comfy.

    BTW give me your list of the other 9 most retarded inventions.
    My brain went from "you probably shouldn't say that" to WTF!

  12. #12
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    I don't think "all" Salsa frames are noodles.... and I second the El Mariachi being a fairly stiff frame as far as steel goes anyway. I go some where in the 210# range with gear and run it as a 1X9 so on some of the shorter/steeper climbs I put some pretty serious out of the saddle stress on the BB etc. and while I can feel the seat/chain stays (or something...) flexing to afford traction in the rear end the 2.55's never rub.
    I Just wish I could ride more!


  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by richwolf
    I always thought soft tails were the worst compromise of all. Mushy without being comfy.

    BTW give me your list of the other 9 most retarded inventions.
    thats a tough one since there are so many worthy, though some "MTB-related" nominees that come to mind are:

    - Suspension seatposts
    - Decision to ban jerk chicken
    - Decision to not ban aquaholic
    - Decision to not have a Lenz forum
    - Turner forum
    - Mtbr as a whole
    - Small block 8s or any such tires supposedly intended for dirt
    - Most fork manuals
    - Bars narrower than 710
    - 10 speed and/or 36t cassettes

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    thats a tough one since there are so many worthy, though some "MTB-related" nominees that come to mind are:

    - Suspension seatposts Wrong, one of the best products ever!
    - Decision to ban jerk chicken Right
    - Decision to not ban aquaholic Right
    - Decision to not have a Lenz forum Isn't this the Lenz forum?
    - Turner forum Wrong, anything to keep them out of other forums is cool with me!
    - Mtbr as a whole Wrong
    - Small block 8s or any such tires supposedly intended for dirt Hey, I have a pair on order!
    - Most fork manuals Haven't seen most
    - Bars narrower than 710 Inches??
    - 10 speed and/or 36t cassettes
    36 tooth cog makes sense for non single speed riders.
    My brain went from "you probably shouldn't say that" to WTF!

  15. #15
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    corrected for you

    Quote Originally Posted by richwolf
    36 tooth cog, and/or 20t retarded front ring, makes sense for typical phat azz 29er riders.

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