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  1. #1
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    East Coast Geometry?

    What exactly is considered east coast geometry? I'll admit I'm pretty clueless when it comes to bike geometry. I will be building up my first 29er and would like to know what to look for in an off the shelf frame. Most of my riding is based in rocky, root filled New England.
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  2. #2
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    im live in ny but...

    Quote Originally Posted by mtgoz
    What exactly is considered east coast geometry? I'll admit I'm pretty clueless when it comes to bike geometry. I will be building up my first 29er and would like to know what to look for in an off the shelf frame. Most of my riding is based in rocky, root filled New England.
    im in New England right now, my wife lives here (for work) so we alternate weeks. i know the terrain you ride (and i love it !) rocky, rooty un-manicured singletrack, how sweet it is!. east coast geometry is basically a bike designed for these conditions. laterally stiff, vertically compliant steel frame to soften the ride, higher bottom bracket (rocks), shorter top tube and wheelbase (tight, twisty trails) and slightly quicker than average steering to navigate the roots and rocks prevalent here in the east.
    the Father of the "east coast hardtail" Ted Wojcik (1 (603) 329-8057) is back building frames. give him a call, he knows infinately more than me on this subject. im having a 29er built by him right now that i plan to race. im no joe racer, but plan to do as much of it this year as i can. my bike is designed for east coast riding/racing, yours can be too.
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  3. #3
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    Since this will be my first 29er frame I would be hesitant to spend a lot of cash on a custom frame and I'm sure the build time would be rather long. To get my feet wet before Spring I plan on building with an off the shelf steel frame. I've checked out the Voodoo Dambala, Kona Unit 2-9, Niner SIR 9, and Surly Karate Monkey. Since the trails here lean heavily toward the technical side slow speed handling is key.
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  4. #4
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    dont forget the soma juice...

    Quote Originally Posted by mtgoz
    Since this will be my first 29er frame I would be hesitant to spend a lot of cash on a custom frame and I'm sure the build time would be rather long. To get my feet wet before Spring I plan on building with an off the shelf steel frame. I've checked out the Voodoo Dambala, Kona Unit 2-9, Niner SIR 9, and Surly Karate Monkey. Since the trails here lean heavily toward the technical side slow speed handling is key.
    i have one and its great. i rode it in New England this weekend and it performed great. the geometry is not east coast per se, but its not really stretched out full on west coast style either. if you put the frame in a line up with the ones you mentioned, most people would think its one of the more expensive. the welds, paint, weight and construction quality is of a much more expensive frame. pictures do not do the paint justice, its beautiful, people drool over it all the time. it steers quickly, climbs anything and rails singletrack. sweet ride!.
    Last edited by edouble; 06-14-2006 at 05:02 PM.
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  5. #5
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    Spot Brand

    Check out the Spot Brand bikes. They handle great in the twisty stuff. The top tube is a bit shorter than comparable bikes but it handles way better than other 29" bikes I have owned with longer top tubes. I just did the 24hrs in the Old Pueblo and on my old 29er I had to watch my high speeds through the winding cactus trails, on the Spot I was able to maintain high speed and stay on the winding trails with no problems.

  6. #6
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    The Monkey's BB is a low...

    I live in VT and have to say that I have smashed my pedals a little more than I have with other rides, that being said I still love it for my riding. Also look at the On-One Inbred, bit taller BB. I'm thinking of having a Teasdale built for $600 (Colombus Brain/Thron or Reynolds 525 and paint, a sweet deal for a non-racer Clyde) with some Tax $$$.
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  7. #7
    paintbucket
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    I can attest to the fact that the Dambala fits the east coast bill nicely. I've got to laugh though at edouble's initial reply. Used to be that "east coast geometry" meant buying the smallest frame you could fit on, and putting a long stem on it. The effect would be pretty much what he describes.
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  8. #8
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    If you can wait till April 1 QBALL Bikes will be available. Hand built in MI with what is called east coast geo. and priced at 430.00 for a frame. I saw a frame at the mmba annual meeting 2 weeks ago and it was very impressive. It's being built by a local custom guy named Scott Quiring, he said the web site would up in mid march.

  9. #9
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    [QUOTE=mtgoz]What exactly is considered east coast geometry?



    Typically it's a hair slacker in the headtube angle, and a bit higher in the BB. The Cannondale Beast of the East comes to mind. All those logs, and rocks make a higher BB kinda nice! I'm sure someone will add to this, but that's what it's meant to me, all along.

  10. #10
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    Get the Karate Monkey, It's got a short rear end, It handles like a 26er, and it's pretty cheap for frame AND fork. I've ridden a few 29ers out west and here in the east, and the Surly's ride fantastic. It's a little heavier than most,but without spending a ton of money my single speed comes in at 23lbs. 1.5 lb lighter than my geared aluminum 26er. For less money.

  11. #11
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    I just stripped the parts of my Kona full suspension to build up a monkey and I love it. I live in the rocky northeat myself and it has everything I wanted, and it handles like my 26" bikes.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by wooglin
    Used to be that "east coast geometry" meant buying the smallest frame you could fit on, and putting a long stem on it.
    Which makes for a bike that is a blast in the twisty stuff, but a handful (or more accurately a mouthful of dirt) going down steep stuff.

    I would distinguish between a Mid-Atlantic/Southeast set up and Northeast. For the former, a shorter top tube/longer stem combo, as well as a steeper head angle, will let you rail through the twisty stuff. For the latter, that set up is a recipe for disaster on the steep, ledgy descents. A short stem/slack head angle are godsends here, and I don't find a longish top tube (too keep you from being too cramped with the short stem) much of a hindrance to manueverability.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by miles e
    Which makes for a bike that is a blast in the twisty stuff, but a handful (or more accurately a mouthful of dirt) going down steep stuff.
    Yes indeed. I think thats why god invented the qr seat clamp. Too bad the hite rite never really worked as advertized though.
    When the going gets weird its bedtime.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by edouble
    im in New England right now, my wife lives here (for work) so we alternate weeks. i know the terrain you ride (and i love it !) rocky, rooty un-manicured singletrack, how sweet it is!. east coast geometry is basically a bike designed for these conditions. laterally stiff, vertically compliant steel frame to soften the ride, higher bottom bracket (rocks), shorter top tube and wheelbase (tight, twisty trails) and slightly quicker than average steering to navigate the roots and rocks prevalent here in the east.
    the Father of the "east coast hardtail" Ted Wojcik (1 (603) 329-8057) is back building frames. give him a call, he knows infinately more than me on this subject. im having a 29er built by him right now that i plan to race. im no joe racer, but plan to do as much of it this year as i can. my bike is designed for east coast riding/racing, yours can be too.
    I sent off an email to Ted the other day and I heard back tonight. The NEMBA deal is just too good to pass up. I will try to set up an appointment this week. edouble and ekoostick I believe we are about the same size 6' - 6' 2" tall 32" - 34" inseam. Would you mind comparing notes?
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  15. #15
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    I've never found the KM bb to be too low. When I haven't ridden the bike in a little while, I smash the pedals a fair amount, but after a few rides, quickly adapt and it all but stops.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by smelly
    I've never found the KM bb to be too low. When I haven't ridden the bike in a little while, I smash the pedals a fair amount, but after a few rides, quickly adapt and it all but stops.
    Chaz - we have to hook up and go for a 29er ride sometime this spring.

    Maybe a MMcG's Freedom Ride Part II or something along those lines. Perhaps you'll have a little more drivetrain luck at Case on the Karate Monkey.

  17. #17
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    Too bad the hite rite never really worked as advertized though. [/QUOTE]



    It didn't? I have one on a bike of mine, and it does exacxtly what it should, with style! How has it not worked for you?

  18. #18
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    What a great race that was (24hrs in the old pueblo). It was my first race on my Dos Niner. Handled beautifully and the weather was perfect!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    It didn't? I have one on a bike of mine, and it does exacxtly what it should, with style! How has it not worked for you?
    Well, uh, once it went down I could never get it to come back up. That was before viagra you know....
    Last edited by wooglin; 02-21-2006 at 11:44 AM.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by wooglin
    Well, uh, once it went down I could never get it to come back up. That was before viagra you know....


    Nice= Sounds like your seat tube could use a ream+clean (really), man that sounds especially bad, based on the tone you just set=

  21. #21
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    not at all...

    edouble and ekoostick I believe we are about the same size 6' - 6' 2" tall 32" - 34" inseam. Would you mind comparing notes?

    what would you like to know?.
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  22. #22
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    tru that...

    Quote Originally Posted by wooglin
    I can attest to the fact that the Dambala fits the east coast bill nicely. I've got to laugh though at edouble's initial reply. Used to be that "east coast geometry" meant buying the smallest frame you could fit on, and putting a long stem on it. The effect would be pretty much what he describes.
    but ive only been riding since 2000, so thats a little before my time . ive read a lot about the old skool east coast style though. im not surprised your dambala works great here, my bizango is the same. i ride a 19.5in w/ a 135mm stem and i flies on the twisty stuff. its a little nervous on technical downhills but no endo's yet. to me voodoo's geometry is definately more "east coast" than west.
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  23. #23
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    Give the Salsa Dos Niner a consideration. It's my third 29" (Gary Fisher Rig and Surley KM). The Dos is a fantastic New England bike. Read my review in the 29" reviews section. I ride technical single track to cross train for M/C trials competition. The Dos geometry is magic here in NE. Worth every penny....

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by edouble
    edouble and ekoostick I believe we are about the same size 6' - 6' 2" tall 32" - 34" inseam. Would you mind comparing notes?

    what would you like to know?.
    i couldn't pass up the ted/nemba deal either. check sent. sugar spam coming soon.

    i'm about the same size. 6'1". my inseam is 35" and i have long arms. i had IF build a ss just over a year ago and this is what i wound up with.

    Seat tube length (cm): 44.5
    Wheelbase (cm): 111.8
    Top tube length (cm): 65.4
    Standover height (cm): 83.9
    Head tube length (mm): 135.0
    Trail (mm): 74.2
    Head tube angle: 72.5
    Chainstay length (mm): 450.0
    Seat tube angle: 72.5
    Top tube angle: 18.3
    Head tube above top tube (mm) 12.0
    bb drop(mm) 64

    fork:
    Offset (mm): 39
    Length (mm): 472

    for my ted bike i'm shortening the tt and chain stays a little, and slackening the ht a little. may also raise the bb just a tad more. the real question is do i go rigid or get a wb.8? that pace rc29 looks nice.

    hope this helps. see you on the trail.

    e
    Last edited by escamillo; 02-23-2006 at 06:10 PM. Reason: dog told me to do it.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by LIV2RYD
    Give the Salsa Dos Niner a consideration. It's my third 29" (Gary Fisher Rig and Surley KM). The Dos is a fantastic New England bike. Read my review in the 29" reviews section. I ride technical single track to cross train for M/C trials competition. The Dos geometry is magic here in NE. Worth every penny....

    Not really anything against the Dos here, but I rode them out in Vegas this fall, before building my own frame, and what I found with the Dos was that it was classically Norba race twitchy. Like any hardtail from the late 90's. This is not to say that's a bad thing, just not my bag. I guess too many years on mid to longish dual squishies, have made me appreciate a slightly slacker geometry, also, I'm no racer, never wanted to be, either. By the numbers, that Dos is slacker, but the 29er aspect tightens it back up, a Norba numbered bike, in 29er would be frightening. Titus did some research on this, and built identical bikes in half degree increments of head angle, from 72 to 68, and what most testers ended up liking was 69.5 to 70. both a hair slacker than the Dos. Again not a bad bike at all, just thought I toss that in the mix. Cheers!

  26. #26
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    im 6ft 2in...

    Quote Originally Posted by escamillo
    i couldn't pass up the ted/nemba deal either. check sent. sugar spam coming soon.

    i'm about the same size. 6'1". my inseam is 35" and i have long arms. i had a IF built a ss just over a year ago and this is what i wound up with.

    Seat tube length (cm): 44.5
    Wheelbase (cm): 111.8
    Top tube length (cm): 65.4
    Standover height (cm): 83.9
    Head tube length (mm): 135.0
    Trail (mm): 74.2
    Head tube angle: 72.5
    Chainstay length (mm): 450.0
    Seat tube angle: 72.5
    Top tube angle: 18.3
    Head tube above top tube (mm) 12.0
    bb drop(mm) 64

    fork:
    Offset (mm): 39
    Length (mm): 472

    for my ted bike i'm shortening the tt and chain stays a little, and slackening the ht a little. may also raise the bb just a tad more. the real question is do i go rigid or get a wb.8? that pace rc29 looks nice.

    hope this helps. see you on the trail.

    e
    w/ a 34in inseam. my bike will have 23.5in tt, 5in ht, 20in st, 17.5in cs, 72deg ha, 73 deg sa. those are the key #'s. i went with a wm bw.8, no regrets.
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  27. #27
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    Ted Wojcik Rant, Gene Spicer Rave

    Sorry about the delay in getting back to you guys. Been out of town. Things have changed a bit. I last had mentioned that I had contacted Ted Wojcik about building up a frame. Well screw that damn Chowderhead. I had sent back an email to schedule an appointment for selection and fit. That was 2 weeks ago and I have not heard anything from him since. It's a shame, I live only 4.5 miles from his shop. I have changed builders to Gene at Spicer. What a difference in service. Gene and I have traded emails almost daily for the last 10 days. He is extremely thorough, asks questions that made me scratch my head more than once. He should have everything wrapped up soon for review if I stop changing things. Then he'll start building my frame. Hell, he will probably be done before Ted Wojcik even replies to my email.
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtgoz
    Sorry about the delay in getting back to you guys. Been out of town. Things have changed a bit. I last had mentioned that I had contacted Ted Wojcik about building up a frame. Well screw that damn Chowderhead. I had sent back an email to schedule an appointment for selection and fit. That was 2 weeks ago and I have not heard anything from him since. It's a shame, I live only 4.5 miles from his shop. I have changed builders to Gene at Spicer. What a difference in service. Gene and I have traded emails almost daily for the last 10 days. He is extremely thorough, asks questions that made me scratch my head more than once. He should have everything wrapped up soon for review if I stop changing things. Then he'll start building my frame. Hell, he will probably be done before Ted Wojcik even replies to my email.

    Yikes dude. Are you sure he even got the email? Did you follow it up with a phone call?

    Does this mean there is now another frame available at the NEMBA discount?

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtgoz
    Sorry about the delay in getting back to you guys. Been out of town. Things have changed a bit. I last had mentioned that I had contacted Ted Wojcik about building up a frame. Well screw that damn Chowderhead. I had sent back an email to schedule an appointment for selection and fit. That was 2 weeks ago and I have not heard anything from him since. It's a shame, I live only 4.5 miles from his shop. I have changed builders to Gene at Spicer. What a difference in service. Gene and I have traded emails almost daily for the last 10 days. He is extremely thorough, asks questions that made me scratch my head more than once. He should have everything wrapped up soon for review if I stop changing things. Then he'll start building my frame. Hell, he will probably be done before Ted Wojcik even replies to my email.
    Did you try calling him?
    Some people don't use email much.

  30. #30
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    every time i've called ted on the phone he's picked up. he's been more than generous with his time and answered everything i threw at him. i rode a spicer for two years on the track and it had to be the ugliest thing out there, the welds look like they were put on with a glue gun and the paint..... bumpy, uneven, a ripple here and there.... it rode fine though, and was a great starter frame. maybe things are different at spicer now.

    good luck. post pics.

    e

  31. #31
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    I'll take an ugly welded starter frame over overpriced piss poor service anyday.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtgoz
    I'll take an ugly welded starter frame over overpriced piss poor service anyday.
    Gimme a break -- you live 4.5 miles from his shop and you are complaining about him not replying to an email.

    Why didn't you give him a phone call or even better yet, just stop in to touch base with him??

    It is pretty obvious that Ted doesn't spend a lot of time on the internet or on the computer. I think he prefers the older more traditional forms of communication.

    Hope your Spicer turns out great, but don't slag TW on this one.

  33. #33
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    having lived on both coasts:

    west coast: bombing fireroads. smooth singletrack. long climbs.

    east coast: low top speeds, as DH is more curvy, techy. lower average speeds. less groomed singletrack. more like hiking trails.

    that said, there are places that are 'east coasty' on the west coast and vice versa. i think you have to look at where you do most of your riding. I think average speed on a ride is agood indicator.

    I live in New England and really prefer the new school which I take as longer TT, shorter stem, very sloping TT with lots of post exposed. bars up even with the saddle.
    I have 'old school east coast' geo bikes, and I feel like they are less fun, much more racy. lots of drop to the bars, short TT, narrow bars and long stem. and longer chainstays

    what i think really doesnt work is trying to get a bike with the tighter geo to feel like a downhill bomber by going with a short stem and wide riser bars.

    overall the east coast/west coast thing is sort of BS in that there are those types of riding on both coasts really.
    Only boring people get bored.

  34. #34
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    Actually he has both my home and cell number and I did drop by his place before I went out of town but the door was locked. Hey, I was excited as hell to have a custom done from a guy around the corner. He has a stellar reputation as a frame builder but I am not going to pester the man to take my money. Perhaps he's busy, or deleted my email by accident, or lost my phone numbers or was grieving because Dancing with the Stars is over. It's obvious he has a loyal following or his defenders would not be so offended. I hope the Ted Wojcik believers enjoy riding his frames as I will be happy riding mine, ugly welds and all.
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