I'm going to try drop bars on my 29er. I've never used drops before so could someone please comment on the components I'm going to order before I push the button:
Bars: Ragley Luxy (http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...?ModelID=54259)
I'm currently using a 685 mm low rize carbon bar and thinking that the Luxy will be nice 'cause they're pretty wide (420 mm top, 650 mm "bottom").
Cane Creek SCR-5
Tektro RL200 (I think that is the model)
These are all good, but from what I have tried I have not noticed much difference in the actual performance but the Tektro's did last longer. Only other thing I can see is just make sure the stem is a 31.8 as the bars are. On the stem I have seen most have success with a 40 deg rise as you want the top of the bars usually about an inch above the saddle or that's were I see most.
JTek makes a shiftmate to allow you to use a Shimano bar end shifter (any 9spd should do) I think it was called model 6 but last I checked they were sold out. It's usually easier to just get the bar ends and a Shimano shifter. I picked up a cheap Nashbar shifter that is compatible and it seems to be about SLX quality and was maybe $20. I am sure you could sell the X.0 to cover the cost.
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You've chosen Linear pull levers (long pull)
and
Road BB7s (short pull)
so these aren't entirely compatible.
If you are commited to SS, I'd go with the Treko levers and Mtb BB7s.
If you are not sure and might go geared, I'd go with Road BB7s and short pull levers and then you can use sti's at some point.
I am running BB7 road with Cane Creek V-Drop. Am I to understand this is the wrong set up?
They feel on the soft side compared to BB7 mtb with Paul Lover levers.
If it is the wrong set up and I switch to Cane Creek SCR-5, how would it feel? Thanks...
I am running BB7 road with Cane Creek V-Drop. Am I to understand this is the wrong set up?
They feel on the soft side compared to BB7 mtb with Paul Lover levers.
If it is the wrong set up and I switch to Cane Creek SCR-5, how would it feel? Thanks...
Yes, the Cane Creek Drop-V is a long-pull lever designed for V-brakes or Mtn version BB7's. The SCR-5 is the right lever for your road calipers. I know that some folks successfully run the long-pull levers with the road version BB7's calipers, but you will get better braking performance if you match the right levers to the caliper type they were designed for. I run the RL520's and BB7 mtn calipers and they are extremely solid and powerful feeling. The beauty of the mtn caliper is that it can be used with any regular v-brake lever if you decide to swap back to riser, flat or other alt-bars. More flexibility= better choice in my personal opinion.
Btw- thats a sweet looking bike and a great candidate for drop bars!! Thats the first time I have gotten a good glimpes of the Luxy. I had not been keeping up with things and that bar actually looks very promising. Those on-one stems are nice and light. You might also consider a dimension stem which is of excellent quality and come in some pretty decent rise and extension combinations..
I am running BB7 road with Cane Creek V-Drop. Am I to understand this is the wrong set up?
They feel on the soft side compared to BB7 mtb with Paul Lover levers.
If it is the wrong set up and I switch to Cane Creek SCR-5, how would it feel? Thanks...
You are using low mechanical advantage levers (long pull) with low mechanical advantage calipers (short pull). More for a high hand effort, low braking power setup.
Standard road levers (short pull) with the BB7 Road caliper will decrease the hand effort and increase braking power.
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The trouble with common sense is it is no longer common
I have a couple pairs of Tektro R200 levers kicking around I'll have to give them a try. I'm using the 520's because I was never happy with how Road BB7's felt with brifters like Shimano Tiagra and 105. I assumed the Tektro R200 levers would use the same pull ratio.
I have a couple pairs of Tektro R200 levers kicking around I'll have to give them a try. I'm using the 520's because I was never happy with how Road BB7's felt with brifters like Shimano Tiagra and 105. I assumed the Tektro R200 levers would use the same pull ratio.
The R200 cable pull is similar to Shimano STI.
The brake levers can feel soft, but that is because of the very good mechanical advantage, and it provides the most power with the least hand effort.
My most powerful brake setup is BB7 Road calipers with Ultegra STI levers.
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The trouble with common sense is it is no longer common
The beauty of the mtn caliper is that it can be used with any regular v-brake lever if you decide to swap back to riser, flat or other alt-bars. More flexibility= better choice in my personal opinion.
Lots of good info, thanks.
The flexibility of the mtn caliper might be nice since this is my first bike with drop bars...
You are using low mechanical advantage levers (long pull) with low mechanical advantage calipers (short pull). More for a high hand effort, low braking power setup.
Standard road levers (short pull) with the BB7 Road caliper will decrease the hand effort and increase braking power.
Thanks Shiggy, one more question:
What combo would feel/stop better:
Cane Creek SCR-5 + BB7 road or
Cane Creek V-Drop + BB7 mnt
Cane Creek SCR-5 + BB7 road or
Cane Creek V-Drop + BB7 mnt
Feel is subjective.
I would prefer the road setup for power, though the mtb works just as well. Really depends on if you already have the brakes or if you may want to use different levers in the future.
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The trouble with common sense is it is no longer common
Greetings
I've had drop bars on my mountain bike for years. My new mtn bike has flat bars. Nicer in tricky terrain, but death on marathon rides - so they gotta go. The new bike, however, has hydraulic brakes. Is there any technology that'll allow me to use them with drop bars (they're very powerful)? Or is the only solution replacing them with mechanical brakes?
I grabbed a pair of Cane Creek v-brake levers in anticipation of switching over to mechanical brakes, but it sound like the preferred setup would be Avid BB7 Road brakes and standard levers. It just seems a shame to abandon those hydraulic brakes.
Greetings
I've had drop bars on my mountain bike for years. My new mtn bike has flat bars. Nicer in tricky terrain, but death on marathon rides - so they gotta go. The new bike, however, has hydraulic brakes. Is there any technology that'll allow me to use them with drop bars (they're very powerful)? Or is the only solution replacing them with mechanical brakes?
I grabbed a pair of Cane Creek v-brake levers in anticipation of switching over to mechanical brakes, but it sound like the preferred setup would be Avid BB7 Road brakes and standard levers. It just seems a shame to abandon those hydraulic brakes.
Thanks for any thoughts and/or recommendations.
Right now there really are no great hydraulic brake solutions for drop bar applications. There are a number of threads discussing possible solutions, and its been mentioned that one of the brake manufacturers may produce a hydro system for drops in the future, but unless something is on the verge of being released that I am not aware of your best bet is Avid mechanical's (BB7's).
Personally, I have used the road version with STI levers on a LeMond Poprad disc I owned a year or so ago. They came stock on the bike and worked ok, but I was never happy with their performance. I had used avid mechanicals previously and I was expecting the kind of braking force and lever feel I get out of the mtn BB7 and Tektro RL520 combo, but was never able to get that. Not sure if this lack of performance was due to the Sti levers, the road version BB7's, or the combination of both. It didn't help that the Poprads straight blade carbon fork stuttered under hard braking on the front either so I won't discount that being a factor either.
The way I look at it if you want to be able use any road lever or Sti levers get the road version. If you think you may want to use flat or alt bars in the future, or re-use the brakes on a different bike that uses regular bars then go the dropV \ Mtn BB7 route. It might be easier to re-sell the mtn BB7's as well since the buyer market is a lot broader. Just a few thoughts.
I just found that SRAM does offer a lower cost 10-sp bar end shifter, 500TT. Good option for a SRAM 10-sp drivetrain, and much cheaper than the combined levers.
The 25 degree stem will like be too low. Look at 35-40 degree stems.
Guess you're right about the 25 deg being too low.
I just made a sketch showing my current stem and the position of the grips (100 mm Thomson stem with 5 deg rize and a Sunline bar with 19 mm rize and 5 deg back sweep) and from my drawing it seems that I'll need a stem 100 with 65 deg rize (not going to happend...) to get the hooks in the same place as my current grips.
If I go with a "normal" high rize stem with e.g. 40 deg rize I guess the hooks will be about 30 mm lower than my current bars and the reach will also be about 30 mm longer.
Is this what to expect when using a frame not designed for drops? And should this be a deal breaker?
Guess you're right about the 25 deg being too low.
I just made a sketch showing my current stem and the position of the grips (100 mm Thomson stem with 5 deg rize and a Sunline bar with 19 mm rize and 5 deg back sweep) and from my drawing it seems that I'll need a stem 100 with 65 deg rize (not going to happend...) to get the hooks in the same place as my current grips.
If I go with a "normal" high rize stem with e.g. 40 deg rize I guess the hooks will be about 30 mm lower than my current bars and the reach will also be about 30 mm longer.
Is this what to expect when using a frame not designed for drops? And should this be a deal breaker?
The 40 degree riSe stem is going to be a must. Not a deal breaker to try, but you may not like it. Too bad your steer tube is cut short, or you could have used spacers.
Lots of good info here, maybe I can add a ? or 2. I am running Ultegra 8 speed bar-end shifters w/ Salsa Woodchippers, and an older XT derailleur (m735). I love the feel of the woodchippers, especially the longer extension. The issue is trying to get my hand back to shift. Anyone noticed the same thing?
I tried the Gary bars before, but they were way too cramped in the extension, and the angle felt wrong. But the woodchippers feel just right, except for the long reach to shift. Maybe I just need to ride them some more and get used to it! I may even cut them down a hair.
Also, my rear derailleur/cassette seems to not match the indexing of the shifters. It is an 8 spd casette and 7 speed derailleur ( yes I know, but it has enough travel to hit all 8 gears), but the middle shifts don't seem to match the index. Is the road shifter/cassette spacing different than mtn shifter/cassette spacing? Works ok in friction mode, just takes a bit more finesse.
Guess you're right about the 25 deg being too low.
I just made a sketch showing my current stem and the position of the grips (100 mm Thomson stem with 5 deg rize and a Sunline bar with 19 mm rize and 5 deg back sweep) and from my drawing it seems that I'll need a stem 100 with 65 deg rize (not going to happend...) to get the hooks in the same place as my current grips.
If I go with a "normal" high rize stem with e.g. 40 deg rize I guess the hooks will be about 30 mm lower than my current bars and the reach will also be about 30 mm longer.
Is this what to expect when using a frame not designed for drops? And should this be a deal breaker?
This stem reach calculator is helpful and provides a comparison reference:
IRD make a decent riser stem. I used one of their 30 degree F4 mountain risers on a number of drop bar bikes and it worked great and wasn't a boat anchor either. Here is a link to their latest 40 degree "satin" riser. http://store.interlocracing.com/irdsastth254.html
Could be an option. Like Shiggy mentioned using a steerer extender might be an option to help regain your rise needs.
Lots of good info here, maybe I can add a ? or 2. I am running Ultegra 8 speed bar-end shifters w/ Salsa Woodchippers, and an older XT derailleur (m735). I love the feel of the woodchippers, especially the longer extension. The issue is trying to get my hand back to shift. Anyone noticed the same thing?
I tried the Gary bars before, but they were way too cramped in the extension, and the angle felt wrong. But the woodchippers feel just right, except for the long reach to shift. Maybe I just need to ride them some more and get used to it! I may even cut them down a hair.
Also, my rear derailleur/cassette seems to not match the indexing of the shifters. It is an 8 spd casette and 7 speed derailleur ( yes I know, but it has enough travel to hit all 8 gears), but the middle shifts don't seem to match the index. Is the road shifter/cassette spacing different than mtn shifter/cassette spacing? Works ok in friction mode, just takes a bit more finesse.
Yes, cut down the end of the bar to reach the shifter.
8-sp shifters on a 7-sp cassette can work, sometimes. If you can not fit an 8-sp cassette on the hub, try removing one cog from the eight speed.
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The trouble with common sense is it is no longer common
It will be ugly but maybe thats my only option. I like to have my bars pretty high and on my current setup the bars are about 30 mm above my saddle.
Most pics in the monstercross / dropbar 29er threads around here shows the hooks well below saddle height. Not sure I'll like that but maybe I just need to adjust...?
Think I'll try to invert my stem to -5 deg and remove the 5 mm spacer I have installed. This shoud lower the bar height 22 mm. If I need more I'll try to run my rizers upside down, this will give me another 19 mm.
First off I agree, with Shiggy on getting a more up right stem, converting a stock mtb frame for MTB duty it's tough not too. I tried to avoid it, but for offroad pounding it seems to be the best way to go. His tips on his site are spot on for that.
Parts;
I have a Ragley bar being sent to test, looks interesting and know there was a bit of thought put into it. I've got time in on the Origin 8 Gary, Salsa Woodchipper, and currently run the On-One Midge. While the Midge is right now my favorite, I see the purpose in the other two as well. Kinda like grips and bar ends, do what works for you.
Brakes-I'd agree with road levers, road discs. Never know if you decide to go 1x9 or full gears. But either way most people would go STI or it's easier to find a used set. I can't find use bar end shifters to save my life, but Craigslist and shops have tons of used STI. Go figure.
Stem-25 rise as mentioned may not be enough unless you got a chunk of steerer to play with.
Shiftng-I'll steal a bit of info Shiggy shared on another thread with me. XO 9 speed won't work with any "road" shifters. But the new 10 speed reportedly works purty with the SRAM Road shifters.
Shimano USED to work all nice. However once again it was mentioned that i was wrong when it came to 10 speed. 10 speed MTB no play well with 10 speed Road. Unless you go friction
In the immortal words of Socrates..."I drank what?"
First off I agree, with Shiggy on getting a more up right stem, converting a stock mtb frame for MTB duty it's tough not too. I tried to avoid it, but for offroad pounding it seems to be the best way to go. His tips on his site are spot on for that.
Parts;
I have a Ragley bar being sent to test, looks interesting and know there was a bit of thought put into it. I've got time in on the Origin 8 Gary, Salsa Woodchipper, and currently run the On-One Midge. While the Midge is right now my favorite, I see the purpose in the other two as well. Kinda like grips and bar ends, do what works for you.
Brakes-I'd agree with road levers, road discs. Never know if you decide to go 1x9 or full gears. But either way most people would go STI or it's easier to find a used set. I can't find use bar end shifters to save my life, but Craigslist and shops have tons of used STI. Go figure.
Stem-25 rise as mentioned may not be enough unless you got a chunk of steerer to play with.
Shiftng-I'll steal a bit of info Shiggy shared on another thread with me. XO 9 speed won't work with any "road" shifters. But the new 10 speed reportedly works purty with the SRAM Road shifters.
Shimano USED to work all nice. However once again it was mentioned that i was wrong when it came to 10 speed. 10 speed MTB no play well with 10 speed Road. Unless you go friction
You can still use Shimano 10-sp road STI levers with Shimano 9-sp mtb RDs and any 10-sp cassette.
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The trouble with common sense is it is no longer common
Hi Shiggy & Co!
I am trying to fit my midge bar to my singular swift size L, I am quite tall eg. 190 cm (which I think is 6 feet 3 inches... I am from Denmark, Europe..) and I have quite long reach.
Do you have any comments or suggestions on my setup at the moment beside the lack of tape on the bar ;-) (see picture in my profile http://forums.mtbr.com/member.php?u=484325 since I donīt know how to attach hereby..)
I tried it on the road yesterday, and it's feels right, but on a short part of a singletrack I found the handling a little poor and the gearshifting a bit difficult. No problem going down hill with the low grip position.
I also tried the setup with as many steem spacers as possible for more hight and a little more angle on the hooks (for more natural hand position when going on road) but it also didnīt feel good up steep singletrack sections.
My stem is +10 degrees & 90mm.
My ambition is to get a great bike for pendling to my favorite single tracks (appr. 30-40 km and going for a couple of rounds (17-30 km) and back home on the road again.
Cheers,
Christian "the great dane" ;-)
Hi Shiggy & Co!
I am trying to fit my midge bar to my singular swift size L, I am quite tall eg. 190 cm (which I think is 6 feet 3 inches... I am from Denmark, Europe..) and I have quite long reach.
Do you have any comments or suggestions on my setup at the moment beside the lack of tape on the bar ;-) (see picture in my profile http://forums.mtbr.com/member.php?u=484325 since I donīt know how to attach hereby..)
I tried it on the road yesterday, and it's feels right, but on a short part of a singletrack I found the handling a little poor and the gearshifting a bit difficult. No problem going down hill with the low grip position.
I also tried the setup with as many steem spacers as possible for more hight and a little more angle on the hooks (for more natural hand position when going on road) but it also didnīt feel good up steep singletrack sections.
My stem is +10 degrees & 90mm.
My ambition is to get a great bike for pendling to my favorite single tracks (appr. 30-40 km and going for a couple of rounds (17-30 km) and back home on the road again.
Cheers,
Christian "the great dane" ;-)
Most people have good results using a steeper or higher rise stem. I am using a 80mm x +35 degree stem currently, it puts the bars a bit closer. You may try to borrow an adjustable stem to find the sweet spot. Good luck.
Hi Shiggy & Co!
I am trying to fit my midge bar to my singular swift size L, I am quite tall eg. 190 cm (which I think is 6 feet 3 inches... I am from Denmark, Europe..) and I have quite long reach.
Do you have any comments or suggestions on my setup at the moment beside the lack of tape on the bar ;-) (see picture in my profile http://forums.mtbr.com/member.php?u=484325 since I donīt know how to attach hereby..)
I tried it on the road yesterday, and it's feels right, but on a short part of a singletrack I found the handling a little poor and the gearshifting a bit difficult. No problem going down hill with the low grip position.
I also tried the setup with as many steem spacers as possible for more hight and a little more angle on the hooks (for more natural hand position when going on road) but it also didnīt feel good up steep singletrack sections.
My stem is +10 degrees & 90mm.
My ambition is to get a great bike for pendling to my favorite single tracks (appr. 30-40 km and going for a couple of rounds (17-30 km) and back home on the road again.
Cheers,
Christian "the great dane" ;-)
The levers look a bit low on the bar to me. That could be part of the shifting troubles.
Otherwise, you are going to need to experiment to find the stem length and height that works for you. There is a compromise between what is better on the road and what feels better on the trail.
Sometimes riding on the hoods works well for steep climbs, as longs as they are not too rough/technical.
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The trouble with common sense is it is no longer common
The levers look a bit low on the bar to me. That could be part of the shifting troubles.
Otherwise, you are going to need to experiment to find the stem length and height that works for you. There is a compromise between what is better on the road and what feels better on the trail.
Sometimes riding on the hoods works well for steep climbs, as longs as they are not too rough/technical.
I think you're right because I have optimized it to much for the road (where it's perfect) at the moment. And I will need to raise the bar for the rough but I can't imagine in which angle the bottom of the hooks should be to the ground if I raise it fx 8 cm? Since I already tried the midge with spacers (3 cm) and more angle on the bottom of the hooks
downward a little below the rear dropouts. And I think I will have to
have the bottom of the hooks pointing even further downward to the
ground with the bar 5 cm further up to have a natural hand position.. And I would
then think that my hands will slip of the bar when in the wet..
Regards,
Christian
Most people have good results using a steeper or higher rise stem. I am using a 80mm x +35 degree stem currently, it puts the bars a bit closer. You may try to borrow an adjustable stem to find the sweet spot. Good luck.
for the rough I think you're right, I found out that I need the bar raised by 8 cm and my reach shortened by 10 cm!! Quite a lot... So maybe so 40degree and 50mm?!
Regards,
Christian
for the rough I think you're right, I found out that I need the bar raised by 8 cm and my reach shortened by 10 cm!! Quite a lot... So maybe so 40degree and 50mm?!
Regards,
Christian
A 35degree 70mm will likely be as short as you will find, plus you will need spacers under it.
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The trouble with common sense is it is no longer common
If you're in good with an LBS in your area they may let you use their "stem finder" for free, it's basically a reach and height adjustable stem. This will probably save you a lot of random stem purchases unless you have a parts bin full of them.
On my Fisty I run a 110 15deg and on my MTB I would probably run a 70 ~40deg. So quite a difference.
Mr. Krabs: Is it true, Squidward? Is it hilarious?
Do you have any comments or suggestions on my setup at the moment beside the lack of tape on the bar ;-)
I found a very useful article on Midge setup here: http://5metresofdevelopment.blogspot...drop-bars.html
I got it spot on right away after reading this piece. It's especially the padding I think makes a huge difference. I didn't try riding without the padding but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have liked these bars very much without it.
I use the Midge bars on my Il Pompino SS setup for commuting on a combo of tarmac and gravel and I love 'em. I guess the reason is a simple as wide=control. I always miss that feeling on my road bike, when you almost feel like you sit in the bike as oppsed to on it.
The only problem I have with these bars is that the area near the ends is so short that my hands sort of hang out over the ends. I'd need some sort of extension to be really comfortable with them. But I'll work something out.
I got it spot on right away after reading this piece. It's especially the padding I think makes a huge difference. I didn't try riding without the padding but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have liked these bars very much without it.
I split some old grips and stuck them on my Woodchipper over the cork wrap, and it made a big difference in how my hands feel after riding a while. .
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Originally Posted by John Jencks
(not going to happend...) to get the hooks in the same place as my current grips.
