Do other people struggle with tubeless this much?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Do other people struggle with tubeless this much?

    While there's a nice thread about Scott Forty G and his shiny hew bike, I'm sitting here with both me, my wheels, and house covered in tubeless sealant. I spent well over an hour mounting a set of Maxxis Ardents and Crossmark tires on my Sunringle Black Flag Pro 29 wheels.

    Today was a sunny day here in New England after tons of rain, so instead of working on my bike in the dingy basement I started in the bedroom and then finished in the kitchen (brilliant idea). The sealant is now everywhere. It looks like I just had a wild orgy here (not to be confused with those laid-back orgies).

    Over the last 19 years I've used dozes of tires, changed countless flats and never have come close to struggling with anything like mounting these b*****s. Now I find out I gotta head out to find an air compressor to set the bead? These things better be friggin awesome or I'm regressing back to tubes and a rigid bike.

    Is this what I should expect with tubeless or did I just have a bad day?


  2. #2
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    You will develop a system and it will become easy and less messy. Though access to an air compressor is a god-send.

    Did you try removing the valve core? That helps a lot too.

    Just wait till you get some sealant on your rotors contaminating your pads. After that happened to me I swore off tubeless for like a whole week. But I'm back. Tubeless rules.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott O View Post

    Is this what I should expect with tubeless or did I just have a bad day?
    Did you use an air compressor, air them up to 40-50PSI and hear the beads pop into place? Setup has always been simple for me using Stans rims, which the Black Flag SUN rims pretty much are....

  4. #4
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    I set up two new tires tubeless on my brothers bike, took less than 10 minutes total. Its a ton easier with an air compressor, but can be done with a floor pump.

    Using a Stans valve makes everything easier, I worked at a shop through college and did a lot of tubeless setups.

    Easiest way is to have the Stans valve as mentioned above. Get tire to bead up with no sealant being used, this is much cleaner. I have always removed the core for the initial process to bead up the tire. Once tire has "popped" and has about 50psi in it I remove the compressor and cover valve with thumb, listen for leaks. If no leaks I let all the air out. Grab Stans sealant injector (syringe-like tool) and put in the necessary amount of sealant, replace valve core. Pump up to desired psi. Done.

    Takes about 3-4 minutes per tire.

    And yes, its definitely worth the time you spent. Tubeless is fantastic.

  5. #5
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    I've done it in minutes, I've done it in hours with similar experience as yourself. It should be really easy but sometimes you get odd tire-rim combinations and random problems.

    I use it on road, mountain & cross. Still, I feel it's a minor upgrade. I don't notice much traction difference but I do like the thorn resistance and glass resistance on the road bike tires. With wide tires and 25 psi I don't flat whether tube or tubeless. With narrow tires I flat with both. I'm 155 lbs - it might be different for heavier riders.

  6. #6
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    some tires go on ok with a floor pump, some will not. i've never had a problem just using a CO2 cartridge to get the bead on. I also find that if you have the valve facing down and the wheel hanging, instead of on the ground the whole process goes a lot easier. Tubeless is awesome once you get everything converted. My tires barely lose air; even when i was gone for 5 weeks. I also have not had any flats with the tubeless, despite many thorns and rock gardens. i think they ride a little smoother tubeless.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by eric_tfa View Post
    I set up two new tires tubeless on my brothers bike, took less than 10 minutes total. Its a ton easier with an air compressor, but can be done with a floor pump.

    Using a Stans valve makes everything easier, I worked at a shop through college and did a lot of tubeless setups.

    Easiest way is to have the Stans valve as mentioned above. Get tire to bead up with no sealant being used, this is much cleaner. I have always removed the core for the initial process to bead up the tire. Once tire has "popped" and has about 50psi in it I remove the compressor and cover valve with thumb, listen for leaks. If no leaks I let all the air out. Grab Stans sealant injector (syringe-like tool) and put in the necessary amount of sealant, replace valve core. Pump up to desired psi. Done.

    Takes about 3-4 minutes per tire.

    And yes, its definitely worth the time you spent. Tubeless is fantastic.
    I am gonna finally take the plunge and give it a try.....thanks for the responses everyone this is helpful.....question though - what's the best next step if it doesn't bead up or if it leaks when beading it up with no sealant?

  8. #8
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    So I run down to the closest LBS to use their compressor pump and neither tire holds air. Mechanic takes it back and uses a better pump and says its leaking through the valve stem. They were closing and were'nt too keen on offering any advice.

    How do I stop a leak on the valve? What's the window of time for me to get this done before the sealant is no good? Will I look back on this some day and laugh?

  9. #9
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    so i will try to get a picture up but the solution i have used is as follows.

    put the valve stem in. instread of threading on the metal ring, put a small rubber o-ring on first. Snug it down. The put the o ring on tightly. that wwill stop any air from leaking.

    phallic yes. Effective- hell yeah!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldsbar View Post
    I've done it in minutes, I've done it in hours with similar experience as yourself. It should be really easy but sometimes you get odd tire-rim combinations and random problems.

    I use it on road, mountain & cross. Still, I feel it's a minor upgrade. I don't notice much traction difference but I do like the thorn resistance and glass resistance on the road bike tires. With wide tires and 25 psi I don't flat whether tube or tubeless. With narrow tires I flat with both. I'm 155 lbs - it might be different for heavier riders.
    What is your road set-up? I have yet to try but would like to.
    G
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott O View Post
    So I run down to the closest LBS to use their compressor pump and neither tire holds air. Mechanic takes it back and uses a better pump and says its leaking through the valve stem. They were closing and were'nt too keen on offering any advice.

    How do I stop a leak on the valve? What's the window of time for me to get this done before the sealant is no good? Will I look back on this some day and laugh?
    Sealant will be fine for some time. Do your best to pour it from the tyre into a container. Remove the tyre from the rim and check to see how tightly the valve is fitted. Correct orientation of the rubber grommet on the inside of the valve is critical, that is if the rubber grommet is not round. The valve stem needs to be only marginally loose for it to leak. Tighten that little bugger down good.

    You will look back and laugh. I mounted new Racing Ralphs to Crest rims dry with just a hand pump and they seated and held air for some time.

    Good luck.
    I see hills.

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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by jomissa View Post
    so i will try to get a picture up but the solution i have used is as follows.

    put the valve stem in. instread of threading on the metal ring, put a small rubber o-ring on first. Snug it down. The put the o ring on tightly. that wwill stop any air from leaking.

    phallic yes. Effective- hell yeah!
    Depending on the design profile of the rim, air may continue to leak though the spoke holes using this method. The leak needs to be stopped internally.
    I see hills.

    I want to climb them.

  13. #13
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    the internetz can steer you toward rim/tire combos that make tubeless ridiculously easy and quick, with no setup mess at all.

    the black flag pro is essentially a stan's Arch rim; I have the charger pros, and find they work just like my Flow rims when it comes to mounting tubeless.

    Older Maxxis tires (e.g. Advantage) don't seal at the bead easily, but the various Ardents I have (2.25, 2.4 inch) from the past two years have always mounted very well on Stan's or Charger Pro rims with just a floor pump. Sun Ringle applies the yellow Stan's tape at the factory, and in my experience does a good job, but since you're experiencing leakage I suggest you mount with an inner tube in there...helps the tape get smoothed out and adhered everywhere. Then remount tubeless. Smear some sealant on the bead of the tire. The O-ring on the valve stem is a trick I've used for years -- i like it since it lets the valve stem move around a bit when you're putting a pump head on there.
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  14. #14
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    I struggled the first few times. One trick I used early on was setting the tire on the rim with a tube then breaking the bead on one side only, remove the tube, install the valve stem and then hit it with a compressor (with core removed). Once you have this down, break the bead enough to get your sealant in or get an injector to put it in through the valve.

  15. #15
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    I have the ardents on charger pros. It does take a few tries at first but I have only used a floor pump so far. My suggestion is to use soapy water on the bead and make sure valve core is removed. Hang the wheel with valve at bottom, mount tire, soap bead (should be as free of dirt as possible when doing this in the future), add sealant at bottom thru valve or open part of bead. Then hump the hell outta that floor pump. Helps to have a higher volume floor pump. I think it's worth the effort.

  16. #16
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    Sometimes it makes things easier to mount the new tire with a tube overnight to get it to conform to the rim. And yes, don't put sealant in until you have seated the beads, much less messy. I prefer to break a section of bead to put the sealant in, gives a visual of the amount of sealant. Check the sealant level this way regularly and you won't get caught dry.
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  17. #17
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    The best advice I can give is find a way to get a lot of air into the tire as fast as you can ,that means a compressor with a big tank. You need to pop the bead of the tire on to the the bead of the rim and use soapy water.

  18. #18
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    Damn that sucks bro!

    Listen, i dont ever, ever install tubeless without a compressor. I've seen enough people struggle especially using a floor pump. I would also recommend dipping the bottom part of the valve core in stans. this solves the leaking issue for me.

    Good luck

  19. #19
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    again, just to repeat myself a bit here. I have a garage filled with rims and tubeless-ready tires that mount in seconds right off the bat with a standard floor pump. I typically use a compressor for mounting wire-bead 2 ply DH tires, however.

    learning how to position a TLR tire on the rim such that it inflates easily with a foot pump is an invaluable skill if and when you have a trailside repair and air up the tire with a hand pump, as I've done a couple of times (usually I'm lazy and just insert a tube, but...).
    Originally posted by bucksaw87
    I still fail to see how mustaches, fixies, and PBR are ironic.

  20. #20
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    I have some nuggets of advice.

    1) There's at least 20 tips for airing up tubeless. I won't go through that right now.

    2) You need a compressor. The red one, not the blue one. You need a gun too with an trigger to shoot the air.

    3)"You've got to know when to hold 'em
    Know when to fold 'em
    Know when to walk away
    Know when to run"
    This is is the most important tip of all. Some tires and rims were not meant to mate tubeless. If it's not working. Walk away and run and you can save yourself hours, days and injuries. UST rim to UST tire is the easiest. UST or Stans rim to any tire is ok. Any rim to any tire may be fine or may hurt you.

    fc
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Do other people struggle with tubeless this much?-img_0615.jpg  

    Do other people struggle with tubeless this much?-img_0618.jpg  


  21. #21
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    op- I feel your pain. I was setting up my first set of tubeless tires last night and although I got the first one to work in like 20 minutes tops, I couldn't get the other one to work no matter what I did. I was only using a floor pump though so I am hoping I will be able to get it right with a compressor.

  22. #22
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    One tip, DO NOT inflate Stan's CREST rims beyond 38psi, even for a minute to set the bead. I did this and taco'd my wheel letting it sit at 50psi for <5 minutes. It was soo badly out of true I had to buy & re-lace a new rim.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott O View Post

    How do I stop a leak on the valve?
    Put a little stans sealant on the gasket at the base of the valve with your finger. Insert into rim. Tighten the **** out of the nut. The gasket at the base of the valve needs to conform to the rim shape. Slightly tight isn't good enough.

    Next time you need tires, and you want to be able to do this in 5 minutes per wheel with a floor pump, buy some specialized 2bliss tires.

  24. #24
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    If a floor pump doesnt cut it, go to the service station and be prepared to remove the valve core. There has never been a set of wheels or tyres (non tubeless) that i have not been able to inflate with the "servo" air line.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    If a floor pump doesnt cut it, go to the service station and be prepared to remove the valve core. There has never been a set of wheels or tyres (non tubeless) that i have not been able to inflate with the "servo" air line.
    Yup. Once the OP gets his leaky valve stem fixed, the gas station air shoots a lot more volume than the home compressors are capable of shooting. One just has to be careful not to over-inflate using the service station air hose. Just bring along the valve core remover, a bucket of suds if needed, the sealant and one is sure to garner some stares and odd looks from other patrons who wonder what the heck you are doing.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceBrown View Post
    a bucket of suds if needed,
    Soapy water in a spray bottle tends to make less of a mess in the trunk than a bucket of water.

  27. #27
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    Jeesh, I have a set of those wheels and had not problems installing Racing Ralphs and Nobby Nics with a floor pump. Weird. Good luck!
    I am immune to your disdain.

  28. #28
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    Yep i forgot about the stares.... and the WTF is he doing here for 20mins with a couple of bike wheels look from the servo chick.

    The bucket of suds is supplied by the servo, windscreen washing bucket.....

    Heres a pic of my wee mate Jiz.... when we exploded his tyre/wheel a few years back when we were tubeless noobs, ears ringing, WTF just happened, are we dead.... crazy experience.

    It will never happen again

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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    I have some nuggets of advice.

    1) There's at least 20 tips for airing up tubeless. I won't go through that right now.

    2) You need a compressor. The red one, not the blue one. You need a gun too with an trigger to shoot the air.

    3)"You've got to know when to hold 'em
    Know when to fold 'em
    Know when to walk away
    Know when to run"
    This is is the most important tip of all. Some tires and rims were not meant to mate tubeless. If it's not working. Walk away and run and you can save yourself hours, days and injuries. UST rim to UST tire is the easiest. UST or Stans rim to any tire is ok. Any rim to any tire may be fine or may hurt you.

    fc
    Wise words, oh Gambler one. What he said. The new tubeless ready, UST type beaded tires on a decent rim that is designed for that use is so darn good that they practically mount themselves. But the other day I was mounting a stretched Conti Race King on a Stans Flow and I thought I was going to need dynamite to get it to set.

    Shame on me. Cuz, that kind of difficulty can be a telltale sign that the end result may not be what I want on the trail. I did it anyway cuz Stans (and the Sun rims like yours) give a better than normal result with non-tubeless rated tires and I trust them...to a point.

    But seriously, once you mate something like a UST beaded tire like the new TNT Geax, for example, to a UST rim like the Easton Havens....well, you will not want to go back to the old ways. It is the way all tubeless tire mounting should be and that tire is not coming off there short of a big, death inducing crash type impact or silly low PSI, etc.

    My thoughts on how all this tubeless-ness needed to improve...and it is. Vintage One: 20 years of Mtn Bike passion and counting.: It shouldn't outta' happen.
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  30. #30
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    He was kneeling over the wheel, i was holding the tyre, he had stans everywhere, i had 3 bruised fingers.

    They go off like a bomb !
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtroy View Post
    Wise words, oh Gambler one. What he said. The new tubeless ready, UST type beaded tires on a decent rim that is designed for that use is so darn good that they practically mount themselves. But the other day I was mounting a stretched Conti Race King on a Stans Flow and I thought I was going to need dynamite to get it to set.

    Shame on me. Cuz, that kind of difficulty can be a telltale sign that the end result may not be what I want on the trail. I did it anyway cuz Stans (and the Sun rims like yours) give a better than normal result with non-tubeless rated tires and I trust them...to a point.

    But seriously, once you mate something like a UST beaded tire like the new TNT Geax, for example, to a UST rim like the Easton Havens....well, you will not want to go back to the old ways. It is the way all tubeless tire mounting should be and that tire is not coming off there short of a big, death inducing crash type impact or silly low PSI, etc.

    My thoughts on how all this tubeless-ness needed to improve...and it is. Vintage One: 20 years of Mtn Bike passion and counting.: It shouldn't outta' happen.
    Hallelujah brother! I couldn't agree more.

    I vehemently avoided using anything but UST rims with UST tires and later TLR tires on my 26" bikes, since first going tubeless in 2004. I found it very difficult to decide on rims when I decided to go 29 about two years ago as there are no UST 29" rims. I had Mike Curiak build me a wheel set and he recommended Stan's rims. The wheels arrived with a double layer of yellow tape which he says he always does. UST/TLR tires seat as easily as a full UST system. No soap or anything and only a floor pump. A squirt of sealant through the valve and done.

    I recently was asked by a friend to help him convert a set a Mavic rims to tubeless, using a Stan's kit (rim strips) and Schwalbe Racing Ralph TLR tires. Against my better judgement I agreed and carefully followed Stan's online instructions, including drilling the inner valve hole. The first attempt and front wheel went on effortlessly in a few minutes, with my floor pump. I was quietly optimistic. The back refused to seat and I know all the tricks. When both of us were dripping wet with sweat from trying, we decided on a trip to the local service station.

    I'm sticking to Stan's rims and UST/TLR until someone makes a UST 29" rim.
    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceBrown View Post
    Yup. Once the OP gets his leaky valve stem fixed, the gas station air shoots a lot more volume than the home compressors are capable of shooting. One just has to be careful not to over-inflate using the service station air hose. Just bring along the valve core remover, a bucket of suds if needed, the sealant and one is sure to garner some stares and odd looks from other patrons who wonder what the heck you are doing.
    Many gas stations (all of them around here) have low volume air pumps, not compressors.
    The blanket statement that gas station air shoots more volume than any home compressor is misleading and just plain wrong.

    Even industrial-sized, high volume air compressors used by auto shops top out at 175psi... my home compressor does that. While it might have 30 gallons of stored air instead of 80, the initial burst of air is more important. If you set yourself up well, a 3-gallon, 125-psi pancake compressor will air up just about anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    Many gas stations (all of them around here) have low volume air pumps, not compressors.
    The blanket statement that gas station air shoots more volume than any home compressor is misleading and just plain wrong.

    Even industrial-sized, high volume air compressors used by auto shops top out at 175psi... my home compressor does that. While it might have 30 gallons of stored air instead of 80, the initial burst of air is more important. If you set yourself up well, a 3-gallon, 125-psi pancake compressor will air up just about anything.
    I a 3-gallon pancake compressor from harbor freight for $50. It sure beats trying to use a floor pump and it provides the blast for getting the bead to seat with soapy water. Plus now I don't have to pay 50 cents to a dollar to put air in my car tires now. I have aired up several ghetto/ split tube tubeless setups on my bikes as well as Stans and Bontrager rims on my buddy's bikes. Works every time.

  34. #34
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    Recently mounted 2 sets of Ardents on Flows with a floor pump with very little problems. I've found that if I'm trying to pump up the tire with the bike in the work stand (tires off the ground) I can't get it to inflate. But for some reason if I take the wheel off and put it on the ground leaned up against a wall it will inflate right up lol.

    You can also use a tie-down around the circumference of the wheel/tire to try and force the tire against the rim more, then inflate.

    Also.... as far as getting stans into the tire..... I just took an old pickup tube from a bottle of windex, cut a whole in the stans pointy applicator cap that came with the stans and stuck the tube through the cap (make sure it's a tight fit). The pickup tube fits perfectly in the valve stem (with core removed) and allows you to just squeeze it in.

  35. #35
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    I've had issues with quite a few different wheelsets. I finally gave up and run a tube. It isn't that much of a different anyway.
    - The only thing that keeps me on a bike is happiness.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by OmaHaq View Post
    I've had issues with quite a few different wheelsets. I finally gave up and run a tube. It isn't that much of a different anyway.
    Not that much different huh?
    I am immune to your disdain.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    He was kneeling over the wheel, i was holding the tyre, he had stans everywhere, i had 3 bruised fingers.

    They go off like a bomb !
    I've lived through that as well. Ears rang for 2+ days, shorts still have the stain of Stan's, thought at first I'd broken a finger or two. Startling.

  38. #38
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    Just converted a Giant PXC

    I just got the Stans "flow" rim strips and had just enough time last night to install on the frt wheel and convert to tubeless - tire = Panaracer Rampage 2.35 that was previously installed for a couple rides with tube. I did it with a hand pump and referenced the Stans video instructions for help. The key was definitely the soapy water on the bead. Wheel has not lost a lb of pressure since last night.

    It was my first try - the vid helped - the soap more - about 20 mins total work time

  39. #39
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    I've had best luck with sealed channel / spoke bed rims, like the Mavic USTs. Had CrossMax & 819s over the years with no issues, no trouble seating, sealing, holding. Darn few burps either, though I don't run super low pressure.

    Every time I've used one of the strips / tapes / liner on a non-sealed rim, I've had issues with it shifting and leaking.

    I thought I'd read that the Easton Haven Carbons 29 are sealed. Can anyone confirm or refute that?

  40. #40
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    My rule of thumb is to only use tires I can air up and seal with a hand pump. If a compressor is required it usually means the tire is too loose for the rim and I'll be paying for it later.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    Many gas stations (all of them around here) have low volume air pumps, not compressors.
    The blanket statement that gas station air shoots more volume than any home compressor is misleading and just plain wrong.

    Even industrial-sized, high volume air compressors used by auto shops top out at 175psi... my home compressor does that. While it might have 30 gallons of stored air instead of 80, the initial burst of air is more important. If you set yourself up well, a 3-gallon, 125-psi pancake compressor will air up just about anything.
    Okay, I will correct my "blanket" statement and say that the gas station chain that I frequent has what seem like amazingly high volume and almost seemingly endless air supply hoses when compared to my 3 gallon, 125 psi Craftsman air compressor. It puts out a real super blast of air that if one is not careful, could easily over-inflate a bike tire in a matter of seconds.

    I guess my "blanket" only covers the chain's air hoses where I stop for gas. Either I need to get out more or stop using blankets...

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie View Post
    I'm sticking to Stan's rims and UST/TLR until someone makes a UST 29" rim.
    Just yesterday I emailed Mavic asking if they would consider producing a 821 rim in both 559 and 622 BSD's.

    I think anyone who would like to see these rims should also contact Mavic!
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  43. #43
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    one more tip I haven't seen mentioned here ...

    I had a really stiff marathon supreme refuse to 'pop' after numerous attempts with a compressor. I got it to fill by taking a 24" tube and stretching it all the way around the outside. Kind of squished the whole tire into the rim and caused both beads to splay out against the sides of the rim. Popped on the first try. YMMV
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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott O View Post
    So I run down to the closest LBS to use their compressor pump and neither tire holds air. Mechanic takes it back and uses a better pump and says its leaking through the valve stem. They were closing and were'nt too keen on offering any advice.

    How do I stop a leak on the valve? What's the window of time for me to get this done before the sealant is no good? Will I look back on this some day and laugh?
    Just put some tubes in and go ride.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by dje31 View Post
    I thought I'd read that the Easton Haven Carbons 29 are sealed. Can anyone confirm or refute that?
    Not sure about the carbon ones, but the Al ones are definitely UST. I wouldn't be in hurry to mount Racing Ralph Evos on them though, the tyre was that loose it took me about 4 days to finally get them sealed up, then on their first proper outing I rolled both of the b#^&*@ds of the rims.

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    Just a note: I just went tubeless and learned that when you use thin walled, light weight racing tires, it's harder to get the initial fill. The walls are so thin that the cafe latex found all these tiny little spots to leak through. It was like having 20 tiny pin holes. After I had to keep agitating the sealant and spinning the tire to get the latex to coat the walls and plug the holes. This made it hard to get the bead to pop and hard to keep a high pressure in the tires overnight. I hear that the thicker walled tires don't have this problem.
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  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by godsang View Post
    Just a note: I just went tubeless and learned that when you use thin walled, light weight racing tires, it's harder to get the initial fill. The walls are so thin that the cafe latex found all these tiny little spots to leak through. It was like having 20 tiny pin holes. After I had to keep agitating the sealant and spinning the tire to get the latex to coat the walls and plug the holes. This made it hard to get the bead to pop and hard to keep a high pressure in the tires overnight. I hear that the thicker walled tires don't have this problem.

    There sure is truth in that, but the new Tubeless Ready Schwalbe Rocket Rons I have now are juuust about as light as the old ones, are thin feeling in the carcass, and yet sealed perfectly on a Roval rim with a floor pump. Not one drop of sealant leaked out.
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  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtroy View Post
    There sure is truth in that, but the new Tubeless Ready Schwalbe Rocket Rons I have now are juuust about as light as the old ones, are thin feeling in the carcass, and yet sealed perfectly on a Roval rim with a floor pump. Not one drop of sealant leaked out.
    I was using Specialized Sworks tires when I had the problem. Hmmm, you got me thinking...
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  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by godsang View Post
    Just a note: I just went tubeless and learned that when you use thin walled, light weight racing tires, it's harder to get the initial fill. The walls are so thin that the cafe latex found all these tiny little spots to leak through. It was like having 20 tiny pin holes. After I had to keep agitating the sealant and spinning the tire to get the latex to coat the walls and plug the holes. This made it hard to get the bead to pop and hard to keep a high pressure in the tires overnight. I hear that the thicker walled tires don't have this problem.
    I've heard/seen a few negative reports about Cafe Latex not sealing well.

    Even Schwalbe recommend Stan's on their website:

    "Along with Schwalbe Doc Blue we can unreservedly recommend Stan‘s No Tubes."
    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

  50. #50
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    I'm always surprised threads like this still exist. I've been Tubeless since like 2003, really never had lots of problems. Yet a buddy tried "ghetto tubeless with home-brew sealant" and has had all sorts of problems. Tubes suck...figure it out.

  51. #51
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    Several set-ups have worked for me:

    Best/easiest - Bontrager TLR with Bonty TLR tires - usually work with a floor pump

    Stan's - Flows and Arches - with non-tubeless Stouts (compressor), and any Bonty. TLR's again the best

    2Bliss - about as good as Bonty

    Never tried UST - heard the sidewalls were heavy, and Bonty and Spec have me covered for treads so far.

    AND - always, always, always - Stan's. Caffe Latex got a thorough - and thoroughly disappointing - workout from me.

  52. #52
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    I recently picked up Stan's Flows and mounted OLD Maxxis Ignitors (non-UST) sooo easily with a floor pump.

    After reading a lot of tubeless stuff out there, I was shocked at how easily these mounted and inflated.
    Get it unlocked.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by estabro View Post
    I recently picked up Stan's Flows and mounted OLD Maxxis Ignitors (non-UST) sooo easily with a floor pump.

    After reading a lot of tubeless stuff out there, I was shocked at how easily these mounted and inflated.
    Are you referring to 26 or 29 inch tires? There are no 29" UST Maxxis Ignitors that are UST.

    The fact that a tire inflates easily on your Flow rim is not an indicator of it's "tubelessness". It just means it fits tight enough that it inflated and slid into the bead hook. Whether or not there is a tight enough hold on the bead to prevent it rolling of is speculative. I personally will only use a tire with a tubeless bead on my Flows, set up tubeless that is.
    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

  54. #54
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    I personally will run any tire tubeless on any rim*. No problem, not a big deal. You can be as picky as you want, or not, doesn't really matter. Tubes aren't 100% reliable either.

    * Have not personally tried ALL rim/tire combos, but a lot. UST rims make everything easier and more convenient, but it all works. Lotsa crap info floating around, lotsa muddied waters... the reality is very simple, just takes a little experience and confidence, like most things in life.
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  55. #55
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    Seriously the GEAX Saguaro folding slid onto my Flows with very little effort (slight grunt pull and it was done) then aired right up with my floor pump. The Specialize Purgatory Control 2Bliss took a tire iron to get the last couple inches on but I think that was more me being tired and exhausted then anything else. Both aired up with the floor pump with no fuss. Both lost a little air (like a couple psi) over night but have held quite well.

    Here is a question for everyone.. I went ghetto gorilla tape tubeless and followed the instructions of putting a strip of tape over the valve. However, I find that the tape did not completely stay at the edges and thus sealant gets under it. Has anyone tried just the tubeless valve, no tape with success?

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    Here is a question for everyone.. I went ghetto gorilla tape tubeless and followed the instructions of putting a strip of tape over the valve. However, I find that the tape did not completely stay at the edges and thus sealant gets under it. Has anyone tried just the tubeless valve, no tape with success?
    I don't think using gorilla tape on your Flows makes them "ghetto." To me ghetto conversions are for non-tubeless rims + non-tubeless tires. Your rims are specifically designed to convert regular tires to tubeless. Doesn't matter... just a thought.
    No matter what tape and valves (Stan's or cut-from-tube) I use, I never put tape over the valve... never had a problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
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  57. #57
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    My first set of tires going tubeless was a pain.

    They are a wire bead Conti Kings and I swear the sides are made of screen door mesh. The wire beads don't conform as easily to form a solid seal.

    All of the other sets I've done since have been pretty easy.

    You say you are having leaks from the vavlve stem, have you predrilled the inner hole as per the Stan's instructions?

    Are you using wire bead tires? They are much more difficult to get to seal and took me hours to finally get them all sealed up...but now they run perfect and hold air just fine for weeks at a time.

    Have you made sure the rim strip was centered evenly and is spread from bead to bead for the entire rim?

    Many people are right, there are some combinations of tire/rim that are better than others. Unfortunately, sometimes you just don't know until you try.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    I don't think using gorilla tape on your Flows makes them "ghetto." To me ghetto conversions are for non-tubeless rims + non-tubeless tires. Your rims are specifically designed to convert regular tires to tubeless. Doesn't matter... just a thought.
    No matter what tape and valves (Stan's or cut-from-tube) I use, I never put tape over the valve... never had a problem.
    Perfect!.. Guess I will be taking the tire off and removing that strip of tape soon.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie View Post
    Are you referring to 26 or 29 inch tires? There are no 29" UST Maxxis Ignitors that are UST.

    The fact that a tire inflates easily on your Flow rim is not an indicator of it's "tubelessness". It just means it fits tight enough that it inflated and slid into the bead hook. Whether or not there is a tight enough hold on the bead to prevent it rolling of is speculative. I personally will only use a tire with a tubeless bead on my Flows, set up tubeless that is.
    I think you mis-read my post. My Ignitors were non-UST.

    Will they ever roll off? Don't know, but if they do it would probably push me to buy the pricier LUST version of the tire... From what I have seen, people seem to have pretty good luck with the non-ust Maxxis/ Flow combo.

    I don't think anyone is going to dispute that the UST version is more durable, especially if you are prone to splitting sidewalls.
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  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by will-lee wonka View Post
    You say you are having leaks from the vavlve stem, have you predrilled the inner hole as per the Stan's instructions?
    Stan's instructions do not tell you to drill Stan's rims.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
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  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    Stan's instructions do not tell you to drill Stan's rims.
    Actually the do in the installing a rim strip video.
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  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    Stan's instructions do not tell you to drill Stan's rims.
    So true.

    Sorry, got caught up in my own post that I forgot that the OP said he was running Sun Ringle's...which I also have 3 sets of...and which all were pretty easy to set up.

    The hardest one was putting TNT Geax Saguaros on. It took 2 huge levers and 4 strong hands to get those beads on. Of course, once they got on, they aren't ever getting off and don't even have a bit of leak in them anywhere. We joked that when they are worn, it's dremel time!!

    The non TNT versions were a snap and took 20 mins doing the shaky shake and they are totally sealed. I did have to pump them up to almost 50 to get them to fully seat, but no biggie. And it took just fingers to get them on...no levers.

    Thanks for correcting me Meltingfeather. OP, DON'T DRILL!!! ;-)

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    Actually the do in the installing a rim strip video.
    Movies - Puncture Demo
    They do tell you to predrill, but that's for rims that aren't Stans rims (i.e.--Sun Ringle rims ARE Stans rims).

    So, in the case of the OP, he should not drill.

    Whew...sorry for the confusion.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    Actually the do in the installing a rim strip video.
    Movies - Puncture Demo
    "[...]how to install one of my kits into a STANDARD rim"
    Rimstrips are for use standard rims as well.
    I hope you didn't drill out your Flows.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
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  65. #65
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    Ooops... sorry didnt realize that Sun's were Stans rims... No I did not drill my Flows, realized it was for non-Stan's rims.

  66. #66
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    I have done the gorilla tape method. It worked pretty well. I am currently using the Bontrager Rim strips. The symmetrical ones should fit most rims. They are easy to install and you can take the valve out, unlike the stan's strips.

    I also am using homemade sealant off a recipe from this forum. It works better that stan's imo. Buddy had a double puncture from a nail that went through the tread and sidewall. We used a Co2 and he rode it home.

    My advice is use soapy water, removable valve cores, and a presta inflator. If you cant get it on at all try a tube. If that still doesn't work you need to build the rim up with more tape.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by estabro View Post
    I think you mis-read my post. My Ignitors were non-UST.

    Will they ever roll off? Don't know, but if they do it would probably push me to buy the pricier LUST version of the tire... From what I have seen, people seem to have pretty good luck with the non-ust Maxxis/ Flow combo.

    I don't think anyone is going to dispute that the UST version is more durable, especially if you are prone to splitting sidewalls.
    No, I didn't misread your post. I was just trying to point out to you that there is no 29" UST Maxxis Ignitor. Neither is there a LUST version. Not that LUST means it is tubeless.
    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie View Post
    No, I didn't misread your post. I was just trying to point out to you that there is no 29" UST Maxxis Ignitor. Neither is there a LUST version. Not that LUST means it is tubeless.
    In the case of the Ignitor, all of the LUST versions are also true UST. This is true for many, but not all Maxxis tires.

    Yes, I have these in 26"
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  69. #69
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    Unless your a weight weenie, just put in tire liners and slime tubes and avoid the damn mess! When I heard you need to do monthly rpleacment of the fluid in tires, you lost me as a convert!

  70. #70
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    it's definitely an art and one that has to be remastered when anything changes...

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by amelist View Post
    Unless your a weight weenie, just put in tire liners and slime tubes and avoid the damn mess! When I heard you need to do monthly rpleacment of the fluid in tires, you lost me as a convert!
    The object of tubeless has more to do with improved handling, fewer flats and less rolling resistance than weight reduction. I'd rather put up with an occasional flat with a regular tube and tire than tire liners and slime tubes. Maybe you should do some searches/research on tubeless here on the forum. Most people may replace tubeless sealant once, maybe twice a season.
    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie View Post
    The object of tubeless has more to do with improved handling, fewer flats and less rolling resistance than weight reduction. I'd rather put up with an occasional flat with a regular tube and tire than tire liners and slime tubes. Maybe you should do some searches/research on tubeless here on the forum. Most people may replace tubeless sealant once, maybe twice a season.
    It's true.

    There is no need to replace sealant every month.

    And it's not that difficult a task once you've done it a time or two.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sb.Reno View Post
    I have done the gorilla tape method. It worked pretty well. I am currently using the Bontrager Rim strips. The symmetrical ones should fit most rims. They are easy to install and you can take the valve out, unlike the stan's strips.

    I also am using homemade sealant off a recipe from this forum. It works better that stan's imo. Buddy had a double puncture from a nail that went through the tread and sidewall. We used a Co2 and he rode it home.

    My advice is use soapy water, removable valve cores, and a presta inflator. If you cant get it on at all try a tube. If that still doesn't work you need to build the rim up with more tape.
    Bontrage rims strips in what wheels? Which sealant recipe are you using?
    Get off the couch and ride! :)

  74. #74
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    If you don't want to use Stan's strips either because of the money or because he doesn't currently make one for your rim, for example the 29er P35s, I'm a total fan of split tube ghetto. Easy, clean and light and works with any rim and any tire I've tried except for some really heavy wire bead tires perhaps. A cut 20" tube weighs 55 grams and a Stan's cup of sealant weighs about 70g.

    Really cheap too. I buy Q tubes on line for like $2.00 for 20" or a bit more for 24" for 29er rims. The only tape I use is one wrap of electrical tape over the spoke holes.

    One of the best things about it is that it's a complete barrier between the sealant and the rim and there is no taped valve to fail or leak. I've heard Velocity tubeless strips can leak as well. It's even better than Stan's strips in this respect because sealant can get between the outer edge of those strips and rim. This way the gap is on the outside of the rim/tire.

    One trick is when you are all set and aired up and want to trim the excess tube hanging out is to use the tips of a pair of scissors. Cut a slit in the tube on one side then pull on one end stretching it away from the rim, then take the scissors and run them around the tire in the gap between the rim and the tire. Just go around the tire cutting the tube kind of like cutting wrapping paper without moving the scissors in and out. This gives you an even 1/8 strip or rubber all the way around and doesn't even interfere with rim brakes.

    Also Stan's sealant is the only way to go unless maybe you go through gallons of the stuff and want to make your own. I have a lot of bikes and put 2 or 3 scoops in each tire because I run fat tires and still a quart will easily last a year or 2. I've pretty much only heard bad stuff about Caffelatex.

    There are a few techniques involved but basically tubeless is really easy and no one should be having much trouble with it.

    2 hints. One is if you remove the valve core a lot more air can flow through, presta or schrader, so I always take it out. Also air the tire up until the bead pops into place then let the air out and add the sealant. Through the stem with a screw on syringe is best but some like to pull 6 inches of bead and pour it in. If on the rare occasion you are having problems it's better to deal with it before your tire gets all messy.
    Last edited by modifier; 08-31-2011 at 07:00 AM.
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  75. #75
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    I successfully converted my 29er on my Epic to tubeless. Sure, the tubeless rims & 2Bliss tires made it fairly easy, so I figured, what the heck, let's convert my wife's Fisher 26er.

    Not so easy... Sure, the Stan's kit was used, new rim tape, Stan's rubber liner, lots of soapy water... I just can't get the tire to seal enough to inflate! No matter what I try, it will not seal off enough to fill with air. I'm blasting it with a Prestaflater using my 125PSI compressor, 7.5 horse, so I know air pressure is not my issue. Thankfully, I did not put the sealant in first!

    I tried a string to pull the tire in a bit, I tried a second set of hands to move the tire around. Tires are Bontrager with fairly flexible sidewalls.

    Any tips?

  76. #76
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    You know I had the same problem for quite some time when I first did my WTB Moto Raptors. They both did end up sealing (with the rear actually blowing the bead). What I found helped was using a tube to get both sides seated, removing one side and pulling the tube, then getting the other side to seat. Took some elbow grease but eventually worked. They say if it does not work that it could be because the center channel is too deep and not allowing the tire to slide up the side. So you will need to build the center channel up a little bit with some electrical tape. When you say liners are you actually using the Stans Tubeless kit or just the liner/yellow tape?

  77. #77
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    JStrube I've got a 2011 epic comp 29er with the stock dt swiss x450sl rims and the 2bliss tires that came with it. The LBS is telling me to get the stans kit with the rim strips, that seems like over-kill. When you converted to tubeless did you use the rimstrips or just some stans tape?

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by JStrube View Post
    I successfully converted my 29er on my Epic to tubeless. Sure, the tubeless rims & 2Bliss tires made it fairly easy, so I figured, what the heck, let's convert my wife's Fisher 26er.

    Not so easy... Sure, the Stan's kit was used, new rim tape, Stan's rubber liner, lots of soapy water... I just can't get the tire to seal enough to inflate! No matter what I try, it will not seal off enough to fill with air. I'm blasting it with a Prestaflater using my 125PSI compressor, 7.5 horse, so I know air pressure is not my issue. Thankfully, I did not put the sealant in first!

    I tried a string to pull the tire in a bit, I tried a second set of hands to move the tire around. Tires are Bontrager with fairly flexible sidewalls.

    Any tips?
    Yes. Your bike is trying to tell ya something. Put a tube back in. Honestly, if it is that hard to get it to inflate, what makes you think it will stay there safely?
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  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by JStrube View Post
    I successfully converted my 29er on my Epic to tubeless. Sure, the tubeless rims & 2Bliss tires made it fairly easy, so I figured, what the heck, let's convert my wife's Fisher 26er.

    Not so easy... Sure, the Stan's kit was used, new rim tape, Stan's rubber liner, lots of soapy water... I just can't get the tire to seal enough to inflate! No matter what I try, it will not seal off enough to fill with air. I'm blasting it with a Prestaflater using my 125PSI compressor, 7.5 horse, so I know air pressure is not my issue. Thankfully, I did not put the sealant in first!

    I tried a string to pull the tire in a bit, I tried a second set of hands to move the tire around. Tires are Bontrager with fairly flexible sidewalls.

    Any tips?
    I'm not a proponent of converted tubeless systems. I've seen one to many tires burp off the rim. However, you might find that an additional layer of rim tape will tighten up the tire on the rim and help it inflate. It will also be a tighter fit in the bead and make it safer.
    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonFH View Post
    JStrube I've got a 2011 epic comp 29er with the stock dt swiss x450sl rims and the 2bliss tires that came with it. The LBS is telling me to get the stans kit with the rim strips, that seems like over-kill. When you converted to tubeless did you use the rimstrips or just some stans tape?
    You don't need the tape, nor the strips. You should have recieved a valve stem in the parts pack with your bike. Just install that, seat the bead, pour in the Stan's (or Wade's Secret Sauce) & re-inflate & shake & rotate until you seal everything. Took me a few days to get everything sealed up.

    I had the most trouble sealing the valves at the rim, I would buy the ones with the o-rings if I had to purchase them outright.

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    When you say liners are you actually using the Stans Tubeless kit or just the liner/yellow tape?
    Gregnash, I'm using the Stan's liners & yellow tape. I'll try the electrical tape tonight. I assume I should tape it under the Stan's rubber liner & poke a hole in it first, then install the rubber liner? The rim does have a deep channel & the tire does not contact it enough to expand. I've had this problem with go-kart tires before, using a ratchet strap was the answer to those.

    John.

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    "[...]how to install one of my kits into a STANDARD rim"
    Rimstrips are for use standard rims as well.
    I hope you didn't drill out your Flows.
    Life's not over for the rims, even if somebody did drill them out. Simply swap to using Schrader Valves and drill the holes just big enough to accept a Scrader. D.I.Y. Schrader Valves work great. I've used them on Blunts with yellow tape and sealant. And I have a pair installed on an older pair of American Classic wheels with yellow tape.

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/4491863008/" title="DIY Valve, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4056/4491863008_8b8ea77671.jpg" width="500" height="282" alt="DIY Valve"></a>

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/4491223361/" title="2 Layers of Yellow/1 layer of strapping, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm5.static.flickr.com/4032/4491223361_7216e8f1fc_m.jpg" width="229" height="240" alt="2 Layers of Yellow/1 layer of strapping"></a>

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/4491224203/" title="DIY valve installed, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2718/4491224203_ccf07b3971_m.jpg" width="240" height="136" alt="DIY valve installed"></a>

    Not saying I would recommend this for the excellent Flow rim, just saying if somebody did - for whatever reason - drill out a Flow or other rim that didn't need to be drilled out - life isn't over... . In my case, I drilled the Blunt rim out initially for the NoTubes Freeride 26" strip that comes with a Schrader valve. I eventually experimented with "lesser" strips. And finally ended up with the Bontrager Rhythm strips in the Blunts (with that Schrader to Presta shim doo-hickey).

    BB

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by JStrube View Post
    Any tips?
    Did you remove the valve core?

    Post up how that goes.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie View Post
    No, I didn't misread your post. I was just trying to point out to you that there is no 29" UST Maxxis Ignitor. Neither is there a LUST version. Not that LUST means it is tubeless.
    Actually, the Maxxis LUST line up is indeed a true UST tire. I was one of the testers for the LUST Ardent 2.25 and the LUST Crossmark 2.1's. I tested them on NoTubes rims and ran the Ardent front, Crossmark rear last year on my RIP 9 tubeless with no sealant. I just dipped the end of the valve in sealant, installed the valve and tightened down the nut. Once it was dry, I mounted the tires, aired up and ran them tubeless while being sealant free all season. I had to dip the valves again about 5 months later to reseal things as wiggling the air pump chuck on and off the valve most likely broke the seal. It was a slow leak, but easily fixed with the re-dip.

    Now the Crossmark LUSTs are mounted tubeless on my wife's bike (Air 9) with an older pair of American Classic wheels using yellow tape, DIY Schrader valves (with the rubber end dipped in sealant and tightened down with the nut). No sealant and they've been golden since I mounted them in April of 2011. She rides about 4-5 times per week and I rarely have to add air.

    BB

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    ignore me

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceBrown View Post
    Actually, the Maxxis LUST line up is indeed a true UST tire. I was one of the testers for the LUST Ardent 2.25 and the LUST Crossmark 2.1's. I tested them on NoTubes rims and ran the Ardent front, Crossmark rear last year on my RIP 9 tubeless with no sealant. I just dipped the end of the valve in sealant, installed the valve and tightened down the nut. Once it was dry, I mounted the tires, aired up and ran them tubeless while being sealant free all season. I had to dip the valves again about 5 months later to reseal things as wiggling the air pump chuck on and off the valve most likely broke the seal. It was a slow leak, but easily fixed with the re-dip.

    Now the Crossmark LUSTs are mounted tubeless on my wife's bike (Air 9) with an older pair of American Classic wheels using yellow tape, DIY Schrader valves (with the rubber end dipped in sealant and tightened down with the nut). No sealant and they've been golden since I mounted them in April of 2011. She rides about 4-5 times per week and I rarely have to add air.

    BB
    Not to belabor the point but there are tires on the Maxxis site labelled "UST/LUST". Others are described only as LUST(Lightweight Ultimate Sidewall Technology). This designation does not mean that it has a tubeless bead to fit a UST rim. The Ardent 2.25 is one of those labelled as UST/LUST. Others may or may not work successfully tubeless like many non-tubeless tires. Your successes do not make them UST.
    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie View Post
    Not to belabor the point but there are tires on the Maxxis site labelled "UST/LUST". Others are described only as LUST(Lightweight Ultimate Sidewall Technology). This designation does not mean that it has a tubeless bead to fit a UST rim. The Ardent 2.25 is one of those labelled as UST/LUST. Others may or may not work successfully tubeless like many non-tubeless tires. Your successes do not make them UST.
    Bruce is right. All Maxxis tires with the "LUST" designation are true UST tires, meaning they have UST spec beads, excellent air retention, and conform to the UST spec and are certified by Mavic's laboratory. They carry the UST logo on the sidewall hotpatch.

    It sounds like there may be some inconsistencies with the website. And perhaps the tech illustration should be made clearer...
    Tire Design & Development Engineer. The opinions expressed in this forum are solely my own.

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by bholwell View Post
    Bruce is right. All Maxxis tires with the "LUST" designation are true UST tires, meaning they have UST spec beads, excellent air retention, and conform to the UST spec and are certified by Mavic's laboratory. They carry the UST logo on the sidewall hotpatch.

    It sounds like there may be some inconsistencies with the website. And perhaps the tech illustration should be made clearer...
    You can believe what you want. The only two Maxxis UST 29" tires I have found at several online sellers are the Ardent 2.25 and CrossMark 2.1.
    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie View Post
    You can believe what you want. The only two Maxxis UST 29" tires I have found at several online sellers are the Ardent 2.25 and CrossMark 2.1.
    Huh? You're right, the only Maxxis 29er tires are the Ardent 29x2.25 and the CrossMark 29x2.1. I was just saying that all Maxxis LUST tires are indeed UST.
    Tire Design & Development Engineer. The opinions expressed in this forum are solely my own.

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie View Post
    You can believe what you want. The only two Maxxis UST 29" tires I have found at several online sellers are the Ardent 2.25 and CrossMark 2.1.
    He's a design & development engineer at Maxxis. I think he knows what he's talking about.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  91. #91
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    According to a Maxxis customer service rep 2 yrs ago, all LUST maxxis tires are UST rated. He may have been incorrect. In my experience w/ 26er LUST tires, they've all behaved as UST tires on my UST rims in terms of mounting and sealing w/o sealant.
    Originally posted by bucksaw87
    I still fail to see how mustaches, fixies, and PBR are ironic.

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by JStrube View Post
    Gregnash, I'm using the Stan's liners & yellow tape. I'll try the electrical tape tonight. I assume I should tape it under the Stan's rubber liner & poke a hole in it first, then install the rubber liner? The rim does have a deep channel & the tire does not contact it enough to expand. I've had this problem with go-kart tires before, using a ratchet strap was the answer to those.

    John.
    You will use the electrical tape to build up the center channel UNDER the liner. The thought process behind this is that by building up the center channel you will cause the liner to push up, thus creating a "flatter" channel. This should allow the tire bead to easily slide outward towards the bead hooks.

    As for "poking a hole" you should only do that for the valve hole, GL and hope that works, again if you are experiencing a lot of trouble mounting them tubeless then maybe it is best NOT to.

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie View Post
    I'm sticking to Stan's rims and UST/TLR until someone makes a UST 29" rim.
    The Bontrager Duster is UST-spec. Mikesee has 'em.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    You will use the electrical tape to build up the center channel UNDER the liner. The thought process behind this is that by building up the center channel you will cause the liner to push up, thus creating a "flatter" channel. This should allow the tire bead to easily slide outward towards the bead hooks.

    As for "poking a hole" you should only do that for the valve hole, GL and hope that works, again if you are experiencing a lot of trouble mounting them tubeless then maybe it is best NOT to.
    That much electrical tape sounds like a bad idea. If you need to fill it get some foam insulation with glue on one side. What ever width the drop center is. Lightweight. Stays in place.
    No it never stops hurting, but if you keep at it you can go faster.

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by modifier View Post
    That much electrical tape sounds like a bad idea. If you need to fill it get some foam insulation with glue on one side. What ever width the drop center is. Lightweight. Stays in place.
    Agreed. On my Vueltas, I tried electrical tape, but the rim was too deep and had to use too much tape IMO, so tried a few different sizes of foam insulation (like you put in doorways) till I found the right one to build up the center channel enough.

  96. #96
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    They go off like a bomb. Good luck!

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Leo View Post
    They go off like a bomb. Good luck!
    WTF?
    Get off the couch and ride! :)

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Leo View Post
    They go off like a bomb. Good luck!
    I have personally observed more tubed tires blowing off their rim than tubeless at this point.

    Inadepts are found in both ranks.
    I ride with the best dogs.




  99. #99
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    I have the Bontrager symmetrical rim strips in the Giant 29er rims. I think they are PX-2s or something like that.

    I am using 1 part latex mold builder, 1 part auto slime, and 2 parts RV antifreeze (the pink kind).

    At the moment I have an Ardent 2.25 and Ikon EXO 2.2 on my bike. They set up tubeless pretty easily without soap. I just take out the valve core.

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    Did you remove the valve core?

    Post up how that goes.
    Got it seated today!

    First off, the picture above with the rim tape wound around more than once to go wider was priceless. I only wrapped one time & just covered the holes.

    I also used 3 wraps of electrical tape & had my wife work the prestaflator while I moved the tire around to get it to seat up. Thing is, it was just going narrow at the bead.

    Sloshed it aorund nicely & I'm sure I'll have to re-inflate tomorrow to seal it up good & slosh more.

    Oh yeah, taking the valve stem out helped!

    But, is there a valve stem tool for Presta? I have one for Schrader.

  101. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by JStrube View Post
    But, is there a valve stem tool for Presta? I have one for Schrader.
    From Notubes.com
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    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

  102. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by JStrube View Post
    You don't need the tape, nor the strips. You should have recieved a valve stem in the parts pack with your bike. Just install that, seat the bead, pour in the Stan's (or Wade's Secret Sauce) & re-inflate & shake & rotate until you seal everything. Took me a few days to get everything sealed up.

    I had the most trouble sealing the valves at the rim, I would buy the ones with the o-rings if I had to purchase them outright.
    Thanks JStrobe. I just converted to tubeless. I'm getting some leaking around one of the valves as well. So far it seems that is the only leak that the stans isn't taking care of. I may pull them out and see if I can put something else in there to get a better seal.

  103. #103
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    A tip for fixing leaking from the valve is a litlle bit of bathroom silicon sealant between the rim and the rubber washer.

  104. #104
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    Mine leaked mostly at the valve. I just kept filling & shaking each day for a few. It finally sealed up.

  105. #105
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    Nope!

    I run tubes!!


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