Dirt Rag Issue #130- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 15 of 15
  1. #1
    Former Bike Wrench
    Reputation: mtnbiker72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    15,976

    Dirt Rag Issue #130

    Just read this article again today, for those who have not I recommend it. A great insight into the history and development of the 29er

    http://www.dirtragmag.com/print/article.php?ID=894


  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    4,003
    Good stuff. Thanks 72.
    roccowt.
    rocnbikemeld

  3. #3
    Doesntplaywellwithmorons!
    Reputation: DeeEight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    10,869
    I like where they list the name origin as being with fisher...gee...the wheel diameter didn't have anything to do with us calling them 29ers... it was once again the Gary Fisher marketing machine. RIGHT.

    Good thing the movement didn't become popular in canada first, we'd be calling them Raiders or something (Oryx, a defunct brand belonging to procycle group, rocky mountain's parent company had a model called the Raid about the same time).

  4. #4
    Harmonius Wrench
    Reputation: Guitar Ted's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    8,254
    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight
    I like where they list the name origin as being with fisher...gee...the wheel diameter didn't have anything to do with us calling them 29ers... it was once again the Gary Fisher marketing machine. RIGHT.

    Good thing the movement didn't become popular in canada first, we'd be calling them Raiders or something (Oryx, a defunct brand belonging to procycle group, rocky mountain's parent company had a model called the Raid about the same time).
    It is my understanding that the moniker "29"er" came from Wes Williams who, as the article states, was making his "28"er" for several years in the 90's. When he got the Nano, and put one in a 28"er, he saw the wheel was bigger and dubbed it a 29"er.

    Sounds quite plausible, seeing that he had the history of calling a bike model he made previously by its wheel diameter.

    At any rate, this all can be disputed till the cows come home. What matters is that it is.
    Riden' an Smilin'
    Guitar Ted

    Blog
    RidingGravel.com

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    525

    Fail

    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker72
    Just read this article again today, for those who have not I recommend it. A great insight into the history and development of the 29er

    http://www.dirtragmag.com/print/article.php?ID=894

    That article is a crock of shite, always has been and always will be. This is the first bike to ever wear the "tire", taken in the spring of 99', after its introduction by WTB (Thanks Mark!).
    #129.jpg


    Although 700c wheels were used off road in many different forms since the turn of the century until the "tire" came to be there was nothing ever like it. It was the high volume of it that made it work on par with it's 26" cousins and it is still a mystery to me why it wasn't done years sooner.

    There were many bikes made by Willits before the Moots that DC claims to be the first ever. Including this one here which now hangs in the archives at Absolute Bike in Salida after many years of faithful service.

    Name:  234452Maria1.jpg
Views: 689
Size:  71.8 KB

    Also Willits made the first FS 29"er also as seen here from the fall of 99' just after being shown at Interbike.
    Name:  234452B-29_3_1.jpg
Views: 697
Size:  71.4 KB

    But the most laughable aspect of that article perhaps, besides the overusage of the first-person singular personal pronoun I by the author, is that Willits bikes were based on touring geometry and that Moots was the first to use true MTB geo. As you can see from the pictures above that is not true, in fact the Don's Moots that he had in the Moots booth at Interbike fall of 99' (and was the first time I saw it although we lived in the same small town) was set up with drop bars and barely had room in the rear end for the "tire".

    So believe what you will but I have been posting on empty beer for over 10 years now about this subject and was lucky enough to be around when it all went down along with others that were early adopters. For a better look in to the development of the 29" wheel this thread from 05' is a better view. http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=105976

    Peace. Bigwheel
    The future is not google-able. William Gibson

  6. #6
    Former Bike Wrench
    Reputation: mtnbiker72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    15,976
    Regardless of your opinion which I'm sure there are also disputes...I find it an enjoyable article for what it is.

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    242
    Going way back in issue #82 10.1.2000 cover date

    http://www.dirtragmag.com/print/article.php?ID=46

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    55
    Interesting MABman... thanks for the additional history, always nice to have multiple angles.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    525

    Keepin down the Kool Aid

    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker72
    Regardless of your opinion which I'm sure there are also disputes...I find it an enjoyable article for what it is.
    That's ok, lot's of people enjoy reading fiction.

    I am just a bike rider with no irons in this fire anymore other than the fact that I still and will continue to ride 29"ers off road. But for some reason I still feel the need to help keep the record straight which has never made me popular here with the sheeple. So it goes.

    29er away maties
    29er.jpg
    The future is not google-able. William Gibson

  10. #10
    Harmonius Wrench
    Reputation: Guitar Ted's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    8,254
    Quote Originally Posted by MABman
    That's ok, lot's of people enjoy reading fiction.

    I am just a bike rider with no irons in this fire anymore other than the fact that I still and will continue to ride 29"ers off road. But for some reason I still feel the need to help keep the record straight which has never made me popular here with the sheeple. So it goes.

    29er away maties
    29er.jpg
    Ha ha! I was waiting for you to weigh in. Nice 29er there! (I'm not into it myself, but for some......)

    For the record, MABman isn't the only one who tells the story as he has pointed it out. There are several other sources which also agree with his account here.

    The Dirt Rag article, while having several interesting points, is very heavily "weighted" to the author's point of view and conveniently avoids or ignores very well documented facts.

    It is interesting, but one should take it with a huge grain of salt.

    I have some interesting info from the early days. Mark Slate of WTB faxes to Gary Fisher and some early plans drawn up for a 29"er by Slate/Potts that became the basis of Fisher 29"ers later on.

    Fisher wanted a bike as close to a 26"er as possible. The original specs were for a sub 16 inch chain stay, but they ended up with a 16 inch chain stay on the nose with a sub-40" wheelbase. In many ways, the frame resembles what the Canfield Brothers are doing a dozen years later.

    Well, anyway, we all know what Gary Fisher decided. He tested both wheel sizes and the 29"er showed him it was the way to go. While Wes Williams and Moots, along with the other smaller companies were instrumental in the beginning, I seriously doubt that without Fisher's backing over the years that we would be where we are at with 29"ers.

    You can diss the man if you want, but Gary's influence on the 29"er should not be discounted. Adding in Williams, Slate, B. Poor, Moots, and a host of other folks, the 29"er was off to a great start in the industry.

    As I say, I am just glad that they did this, because it radically changed my experiences on a mountain bike.

    Thanks to everyone involved in it!
    Riden' an Smilin'
    Guitar Ted

    Blog
    RidingGravel.com

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    3,698
    VERY well put G.T. !

  12. #12
    Witty McWitterson
    Reputation: ~martini~'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    5,023
    ^^this^^ article is much closer to the truth than the drivel put out by Mr. Cook.

    What MABman and GT have put out there is also true. MABman is currently the most knowledgeable person when it comes to the history of the 29"er. Trust his word on this.

    Thanks for popping by Bob. Some of us still like you.
    Just a regular guy.

  13. #13
    Birthday Collector
    Reputation: ATBScott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,604
    Great post GT - I really do think that for "off-road" Wes was the first one using the 700c rim in "modern times". I remember him in CB - early-mid 90's riding his bikes with a ~ 700c x ~35c or so tire on the trails when we had made a trip there. He was involved with a buddy of mine's daughter at the time, so he was visiting our group when we tripped out there from So Cal. Also spent some time watching him rail those same tires in Moab a few months later. While it took someone with the ability to produce a "real" MTB tire (WTB) and the "push" came from GF (who I also agree is likely the most responsible for getting the mass market attention and having the name and charisma to get a lot of the product design/production done) it was a few smaller builders, mainly in CO that started this thing. A big "Thanks" to those guys!!!
    R.I.P. Corky 10/97-4/09
    Disclaimer: I sell and repair bikes for a living


  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    42
    Another error in that article is the statement that the Diamondback Overdrive came with a straight-bladed fork.... Well the one I have and presently use as a daily commuter came with the original fork and it is curved, not straight.

    Before I got my KM, I rode the Diamondback with Nanos on dirt for a few years and there was *barely* enough clearance, depending largely on which rim they were mounted to. I even considered crimping the stays to get a little more celarance, but never did.

    It rode alright, but I always felt the fork, which looked more like a unicrown touring fork, was way too flexy for serious dirt riding. This opinion is also at odds with the article.

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jonw9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    748
    Does anybody have a title or link to the thesis from Berkeley referenced in the article?

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.