Chinese Carbon 29er - Page 5- Mtbr.com
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  1. #801
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    Quote Originally Posted by client_9 View Post
    No, I linked to that info cause these Chinese frames have the same finishes - just thought someone might want to know what the different weaves (3k,12k, UD) were.
    Don't worry about the weave. Just buy the weave that is most appealing visually to you, if you can. Most of us are buying these frames sight unseen and ass unridden. So the very small difference the outside weave makes in the ride characteristic is a mute point.

  2. #802
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    yeah I agree with mcs here... Think of the outside layer as paint, pick the finish you like most

    also to note there was only a bee's dick clearence running the narror q xx cranks on the lt023 frame
    Josh

  3. #803
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    Hi!

    I have two questions!

    1) Have anyone figured out where all those chinese copys originally come from, I heard specialized, is that correct?

    2) Is there any cheap FS 29er frames available from china yet? Or have you any guess when it might show up?

  4. #804
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    funny

    Quote Originally Posted by emp? View Post
    yeah I agree with mcs here... Think of the outside layer as paint, pick the finish you like most

    also to note there was only a bee's dick clearence running the narror q xx cranks on the lt023 frame
    Weird, because when I mounted my XX with the narrow q, there was plenty of room.

    And regards til rear clearance, I could fit a Schwalbe RacingRalph 2.4, so I would say a pretty good clearance

    Cheers...

  5. #805
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    1. i think you will find that china designs them as and then smaller companies buy them and rebrand as needed, I thinking saying designed by specalized is probably a bit of a stretch

    2. no f/s bikes as yet, but im sure it wont be to far away
    Josh

  6. #806
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbitized View Post
    Weird, because when I mounted my XX with the narrow q, there was plenty of room.

    And regards til rear clearance, I could fit a Schwalbe RacingRalph 2.4, so I would say a pretty good clearance

    Cheers...
    Prob should have put more details in sorry
    Im running the narrow q xx cranks, Beer BB and a 32T homebrew chainring in the middle(small) ring position... so if it was a 28t it would have more room
    Josh

  7. #807
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    Does anyone know which Cane Creek headset fits in the LT-Bike frame?

  8. #808
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    Just ordered a HF-053 in 12K matt from Jenny at HongFu along with some extra stuff.
    Planning to part out a Gravity 29point5 bike I have for the build. I'll keep you updated on how it works out.

  9. #809
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    Please help me decide

    Rider weight: 210lbs
    Trails: Aggressive XC on technical, rocky, rooty single track
    Fork: 100-120mm suspension (to be determined)

    I can't decide between one of these Chinese frames vs. an aluminum frame...
    such as a Banshee Paradox, Canfield Yelli Screamy or a Misfit diSSent.

    I'd love for my first 29er to be carbon, but I'm wondering if one of those aluminum frames would be better suited to my weight and the rougher trails around here.

    I have a nice 6" full susp 26er already.

    I'd like this 29er build to be more XC-oriented.

    thanks.

  10. #810
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    I wouldn't have a problem with carbon if I were you.

  11. #811
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    Which Cane Creek headset ? please.

    Quote Originally Posted by emp? View Post
    yep the headset i got weighed a lot
    i just chucked a cane creek one in, no biggie
    Hey emp?, I saw your Dropbox pics. That's the LTK023, correct? (UD finish)
    Could you tell me which Cane Creek headset you are using?
    Does the LTK023 also come w/ a standard BB (threaded) ?

    thanks!

  12. #812
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    Quote Originally Posted by emp? View Post
    1. i think you will find that china designs them as and then smaller companies buy them and rebrand as needed, I thinking saying designed by specalized is probably a bit of a stretch

    2. no f/s bikes as yet, but im sure it wont be to far away
    Companies like Special-olympic-ized and Shrek, I mean Trek, design their own frames and have them made in Asia to their specs. Smaller companies like Storck, look as if they buy off the shelf units and put their name on them, but I'm not sure in their case. Sette is great for doing that with a lot, if not most of thier stuff. Then there are a bunch of really small outfits that just buy and rebrand.

  13. #813
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    could I part out my 2010 stumpjumper comp on one of these carbon frames?
    might consider that to shed weight this winter

  14. #814
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    mute
    it's moot
    "Big Gulps huh?...Allllriggghhht....Welp, See ya later!"

  15. #815
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    Quote Originally Posted by iradi8 View Post
    could I part out my 2010 stumpjumper comp on one of these carbon frames?
    might consider that to shed weight this winter
    Sure could. You'd lose at least a full pound, maybe more. The nice thing is you'd probably get as much for the specialized frame on ebay as the carbon frame will cost you.

    The seat post size may be different and you'll need to plan ahead for the headset depending on how your fork mates up with the carbon frame you choose.

  16. #816
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkjellquist View Post
    it's moot
    The use of, "mute" is a play on words in this case. Most people won't get. I guess you didn't.

  17. #817
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    Smile Very cheap price, do not know how to quality

    Very cheap price, do not know how to quality

  18. #818
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    Does anyone else get the impression that this post is slowly being invaded by shills who work for the frame manufacturers that we are buying from?

  19. #819
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    Please don't bring that shill paranoia to this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by MCS5280 View Post
    Does anyone else get the impression that this post is slowly being invaded by shills who work for the frame manufacturers that we are buying from?

  20. #820
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    Quote Originally Posted by client_9 View Post
    That's the LTK023, correct?
    That looks a lot like the Scott Scale frame, doesn't it?

    Does the frame have a tapered head tube?

  21. #821
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-Choro View Post
    That looks a lot like the Scott Scale frame, doesn't it?

    Does the frame have a tapered head tube?
    Yes

  22. #822
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    My frame showed up from DengFu (seems to be the same frame as from LTK). Looks real nice, hopefully I can get pictures up tonight. Scratch on the chainstay all the way in the back, not concerned.

    Bought a seatpost also, looks real nice. Makes me wish I bought one when I bought my road frame from them. Bought two headsets, Neco branded just like my road frame. Comes with an expander style plug instead of starnut.

    I ordered 5 extra derailleur hangers and they sent the wrong ones. I'm going to email and see how that can get worked out...

    -Steve in NJ

  23. #823
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    So I got my Hong Fu frame tonight. It's pretty nice for the money. Composites layup quality is not what I'm used to seeing (aerospace composites), but for the price it is sufficient. As far as I can tell there are no major blemishes on my frame (3k, matte). The packaging was pretty sparse in my opinion. I think Hong Fu should do more to protect the frame during shipping, as I think I got pretty lucky.

    The main issues I see are the threads for the bottle cage holes. They appear to tapped at an angle.

    I mounted up my rear wheel to the frame (Ignitor 2.1 tire). The clearance is pretty tight, so I doubt anything larger than a true 2.2 would fit on the rear.

    I will try to post pictures later this week.

  24. #824
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    rear tire clearance

    Quote Originally Posted by MCS5280 View Post
    So I got my Hong Fu frame tonight. It's pretty nice for the money. Composites layup quality is not what I'm used to seeing (aerospace composites), but for the price it is sufficient. As far as I can tell there are no major blemishes on my frame (3k, matte). The packaging was pretty sparse in my opinion. I think Hong Fu should do more to protect the frame during shipping, as I think I got pretty lucky.

    The main issues I see are the threads for the bottle cage holes. They appear to tapped at an angle.

    I mounted up my rear wheel to the frame (Ignitor 2.1 tire). The clearance is pretty tight, so I doubt anything larger than a true 2.2 would fit on the rear.

    I will try to post pictures later this week.
    Thanks for the update.

    Does anyone know which frame (HongFu, DengFu, LT Bike, etc.) - has the most rear tire clearance? I need me some volume for tubeless!
    thanks.

  25. #825
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    The use of, "mute" is a play on words in this case. Most people won't get. I guess you didn't.
    My hat's off to you for taking the plunge... Anyone who can make a pun about mutes certainly has the brass to trumpet it to the world.

  26. #826
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    Finish: UD matte ?

    Anyone have a frame w/ uni-directional (UD) and matte finish? Pic? please

    So close to pulling trigger.

  27. #827
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    Quote Originally Posted by raganwald View Post
    My hat's off to you for taking the plunge... Anyone who can make a pun about mutes certainly has the brass to trumpet it to the world.
    No, I didn't mean it that way. I ment that it is a topic that has been discussed already and the topic can be muted. Sorry if you took it that way.

  28. #828
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    hey guys... first real post here. I am getting back into mountain biking and I had a question on these frames.

    I am planning on getting this model From jenny at hong fu.

    http://www.dhgate.com/29er-mtb-finis...179b56379.html

    I was wondering if anyone knew the stand over height of the 17.5" frame?

    I currently ride a dual sus 26r and it has a clearance of 76cm (30"). I have no complaints about the ETT of my current ride but the stand over is pretty tight. I am a n00b to 29'r bikes and this build will be my first 29'r. Will the stand over height be raised at all with the larger wheels?

    I plan on running a fox f29 100rlc.

    Also... since I am here and jenny has not gotten back to me yet... Does anyone know what headsets I am limited to with the frame above? I want to run something I know will last a long time and perform well throughout.

    I have read through this entire post and have not found specific answers to these questions... so sorry if I missed something and I am asking stupid questions.

    Thanks.

  29. #829
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    Quote Originally Posted by client_9 View Post
    Rider weight: 210lbs
    Trails: Aggressive XC on technical, rocky, rooty single track
    Fork: 100-120mm suspension (to be determined)
    The MTB854 frame has a max driver weight limit of 90kg.
    The MTB753 and afaik the LTK023 have a max driver weight limit of 110kg.

    Keep in mind that with backpack, bottles etc. you should add some 10kg to your weight.

    I haven't found my ideal 29" carbon frame with inner tubing in 21"/XL size with a max driver weight of >=110kg yet.

  30. #830
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn
    The use of, "mute" is a play on words in this case. Most people won't get. I guess you didn't.
    Quote Originally Posted by raganwald View Post
    My hat's off to you for taking the plunge... Anyone who can make a pun about mutes certainly has the brass to trumpet it to the world.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    No, I didn't mean it that way. I ment that it is a topic that has been discussed already and the topic can be muted. Sorry if you took it that way.
    It seems I'm not nearly as hilarious as I think I am. You were talking about mute vs. moot. A mute (noun) is a device for softening the sound of a brass instrument. Most people are familiar with trumpet mutes. Two of the most common trumpet mutes are "plunger mutes" and "hat mutes," based on jazz musicians using the rubber head of a toilet plunger or their own hats to mute and control the sound.

    I thought I was making a funny. Absolutely no disapproval was intended.

  31. #831
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    Thanks - good to know

    Quote Originally Posted by Haldir View Post
    The MTB854 frame has a max driver weight limit of 90kg.
    The MTB753 and afaik the LTK023 have a max driver weight limit of 110kg.

    Keep in mind that with backpack, bottles etc. you should add some 10kg to your weight.

    I haven't found my ideal 29" carbon frame with inner tubing in 21"/XL size with a max driver weight of >=110kg yet.
    How did you find this info?

    Does anyone know the maximum rear tire clearance on the MTB753 or the LTK023 ?

    thanks!

  32. #832
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    Quote Originally Posted by client_9 View Post
    How did you find this info? thanks!
    I mailed both companies to ask for the weight limit and they replied quite promptly, I was quite a bit suprised that they replied with an exact value. I'm quite certain that some retailers of the mtb854 won't mention any weight limit.

  33. #833
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    Quote Originally Posted by client_9 View Post
    How did you find this info?

    Does anyone know the maximum rear tire clearance on the MTB753 or the LTK023 ?

    thanks!
    EMP? has the LTK023 frame with a Racing Ralph 2.25 and plenty of room....

    That's the frame I chose, but I did not know about the rider weight limits.... I'm 230 lbs geared up....

    Oh well.... At least I'm a smooth rider.......... We'll see how she fairs...........

  34. #834
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    doh

  35. #835
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    Quote Originally Posted by vierzwanzig View Post
    hey guys... first real post here. I am getting back into mountain biking and I had a question on these frames.

    I am planning on getting this model From jenny at hong fu.

    http://www.dhgate.com/29er-mtb-finis...179b56379.html

    I was wondering if anyone knew the stand over height of the 17.5" frame?
    From looking at the chart, I have no clue what the stand over height is... the only number on the chart that is even close to that of my other frame is in the 60cm range (number also grows slightly with bigger frames).

    Anyone have any insight on this?

  36. #836
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    Quote Originally Posted by client_9 View Post
    How did you find this info?

    Does anyone know the maximum rear tire clearance on the MTB753 or the LTK023 ?

    thanks!
    mtb753 I am about to pull the wtb prowler 2.1 (http://www.wtb.com/products/tires/29er/prowlersl29er/ those little outer knobs) off the back cause it is just too close. At least run tubeless. I think I can fit nano raptor 2.1s.
    Someone has posted a pic around here somewhere of the clearance.
    Was hoping for a bit more clearance, but the bike flys as a pure xc or racer's machine for the price.
    Edit: update, I just exacto trimmed the lugs on the prowler and now clearance is fine. I always heli tape that area anyways.
    Did I say this bike flys ! Thank god decent thick seatstays. Did I say .....
    Last edited by ghawk; 07-01-2011 at 06:14 PM.

  37. #837
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    the LTK023 frame with a Racing Ralph 2.25 - pic

    Quote Originally Posted by ghawk View Post
    Someone has posted a pic around here somewhere of the clearance.
    Was hoping for a bit more clearance, but the bike flys as a pure xc or racer's machine for the price.
    Some pics of the LTK023 w/ a 2.25 Racing Ralph

  38. #838
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    and alo matt ud carbon
    I did a few km's on it last night and itr went great
    so much nicer than the 2 xtc 29ers I had before it
    Im way over the 110kg max and i has giving it a beat down and its still alive lol
    Josh

  39. #839
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    Quote Originally Posted by emp? View Post
    and alo matt ud carbon
    I did a few km's on it last night and itr went great
    so much nicer than the 2 xtc 29ers I had before it
    Im way over the 110kg max and i has giving it a beat down and its still alive lol
    With the crankset installed does there appear to be enough chainstay clearance to install a bashwich (replacement for the granny gear) ?

  40. #840
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    Quote Originally Posted by emp? View Post
    and alo matt ud carbon
    I did a few km's on it last night and itr went great
    so much nicer than the 2 xtc 29ers I had before it
    Im way over the 110kg max and i has giving it a beat down and its still alive lol
    Hi,
    Emp, I've been reading all your posts. Thanks for the info.
    I also want to order the LTK023 in UD matte finish.
    But on the LT Bike website when I click on all the different frames labeled LTK023, the closest choice to "UD matte" is UD raw. This one HERE

    Does "raw" mean no finish at all? Where's the UD matte choice?


    confused.

  41. #841
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    just tell em what you want matte finish when you order

    I doubt there would be room for a bashwich
    Ive got XX cranks with Beer BB and a 32t in the middle ring only just fits, like maybe 3-4mm to the chainstay
    Josh

  42. #842
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    Helpful geometry measurements

    THIS post by syl3 has lots of helpful frame measurements. Just thought I'd re-post.

  43. #843
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    Granted this is a 26 incher but I've been posting on here and I know some people like to see pics from people who actually get frames. Bought this on ebay from e_baygoods, ordered late at night on june 19th and just got the frame in today. The cost was $300 plus 70 for shipping; frame plus a carbon handlebar that looks much nicer than the pics online. Also received a seatpost clamp, extra derailleur hanger, and integrated headset at no charge.

    --> Sorry, in the years I've been using this site I still can't figure out how to post pictures.

  44. #844
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    anyone

  45. #845
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    get one with custom paint?

  46. #846
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    oops

  47. #847
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    OK, figured it out after a few minutes. I knew I had done it a few years ago once and completely forgot about the "additional options" section below. I'll get more pics up soon, give me a few days or so. I will also get a picture of the handlebar too.

    I know this has been a big question for a lot of people... tire clearance. I haven't installed anything on the bike yet and it might be awhile before I get this thing completely built but I took the tire from another bike and just "slide" it into the space. The tire is a 2.1 Tioga Psycho 2 but it's really more like a 2.2 size. Anyway, anything bigger would definitely not work. There is just enough space for that size tire and hopefully that won't give me any issues.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Chinese Carbon 29er-267064_10150297811683086_535298085_9179126_4906679_o.jpg  


  48. #848
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    an email from LT Bike about the LTK023

    From [email protected]:

    "Yes, we have a few of this model in UD with BSA in raw finish in stock now .
    The maximum rider weight for the LTK023 is 100kg and the the maximum rear tire size width is 2.3 inch .
    Any question, please contact me freely .
    Nice day for you .
    Alisa "

    So that's 220lbs for maximum rider weight.

  49. #849
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    120mm travel fork ?

    I searched this thread for the answer to no avail...

    Is anyone running a 120mm suspension fork on these frames? Specifically the LTK023?

    I found THESE PICS, but I'm not sure what fork it is.
    I don't wanna bother member emp? w/ any more questions.

    Oh yeah, anyone know which Cane Creek headset works w/ the LTK023 frame if using a suspension fork?


    thanks.

  50. #850
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    I took a couple pictures, large size so I'm not sure I want to just put them in the thread.

    http://www.gtluke.com/satanpez/Bike/FM038/

    If anyone wants something specific, let me know. It's going to take me awhile to build this up, Lefty fork on order...

    Pictured is the headset that came with the bike along with the seatpost. I would NOT suggest buying the seatpost unless a 300mm seatpost works for you.

    I already swapped it with the 400mm EC70 seatpost I had on my FM015 bike so it's no big deal for me. I didn't weigh it either but it didn't seem all that light.

    -Steve in NJ

  51. #851
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satanpez View Post
    I took a couple pictures, large size so I'm not sure I want to just put them in the thread.

    http://www.gtluke.com/satanpez/Bike/FM038/

    If anyone wants something specific, let me know. It's going to take me awhile to build this up, Lefty fork on order...

    Pictured is the headset that came with the bike along with the seatpost. I would NOT suggest buying the seatpost unless a 300mm seatpost works for you.

    I already swapped it with the 400mm EC70 seatpost I had on my FM015 bike so it's no big deal for me. I didn't weigh it either but it didn't seem all that light.

    -Steve in NJ
    Is this the LTK023?

  52. #852
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    Quote Originally Posted by HOLLYWOOD33 View Post
    Is this the LTK023?
    Half of a dozen, 6 of one?

    It's the DengFu FM039 which I suspect is exactly the same as the LTK023. Just...cheaper? I bought my road frame from them so I was comfortable buying my carbon frame from them. Derailleur cables are all internal, rear brake hose is internal.

    I am putting the geometry charts in that folder for anyone that's interested.

    -Steve in NJ

  53. #853
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satanpez View Post
    I took a couple pictures, large size so I'm not sure I want to just put them in the thread.

    http://www.gtluke.com/satanpez/Bike/FM038/

    If anyone wants something specific, let me know. It's going to take me awhile to build this up, Lefty fork on order...

    Pictured is the headset that came with the bike along with the seatpost. I would NOT suggest buying the seatpost unless a 300mm seatpost works for you.

    I already swapped it with the 400mm EC70 seatpost I had on my FM015 bike so it's no big deal for me. I didn't weigh it either but it didn't seem all that light.

    -Steve in NJ
    Thanks for sharing the pics!

    I notice people ordering many extra derailleur hangers, are carbon frames more prone to bent hangers?

    And lastly, is the headset heavy like people have mentioned?

  54. #854
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    Sorry I keep calling it the FM038, it's the FM039

  55. #855
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    1) The reason for the extra derailleurs are that they are $2 from the company where they are ~$20+ if you have to buy them in the US. They certainly aren't more prone to bending, however they do seem very weak compared to other hangers I've seen. This is actually a good thing as they're *supposed* to protect your frame and derailleur.

    I ordered 5 which comes out to $10. That's half the cost of one hanger in the US plus I'll have it laying around if I need it.

    2) The headset for this frame is NOT heavy as all it is is pretty much:
    Crown race
    Lower Bearing
    Upper Bearing
    Split Ring
    Two thin spacers
    Top Cap
    Expansion plug.& cap

    Possibly the expansion plug could be heavier than a starnut but it's all mostly aluminum.

    It's an integrated headset so there's not much that can go wrong. What's nice is the bearings came with the measurements on the sides so it's easier to go find a replacement if need be. I ordered two. $14 each

    I didn't this time as I have them laying around but I would also suggest buying the carbon stem spacers as for $5 they're decently priced.

    If I get taken care of with my hangers I may actually order a few of these frames for resale...

    -Steve in NJ

    Quote Originally Posted by client_9 View Post
    Thanks for sharing the pics!

    I notice people ordering many extra derailleur hangers, are carbon frames more prone to bent hangers?

    And lastly, is the headset heavy like people have mentioned?

  56. #856
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    Threw the wheels and fork on my frame (HF053, 3k matte finish) for fun. Need to get a shop to cut the steerer tube etc. I'm kind of wishing my fork was white instead of black, but I'll live with it.



    Rest of the pics are in this gallery. Excuse my crappy camera.

    https://min.us/mvbFpib (use arrow keys to go to different pictures)

  57. #857
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCS5280 View Post
    So I got my Hong Fu frame tonight. It's pretty nice for the money. Composites layup quality is not what I'm used to seeing (aerospace composites), but for the price it is sufficient. As far as I can tell there are no major blemishes on my frame (3k, matte). The packaging was pretty sparse in my opinion. I think Hong Fu should do more to protect the frame during shipping, as I think I got pretty lucky.

    The main issues I see are the threads for the bottle cage holes. They appear to tapped at an angle.

    I mounted up my rear wheel to the frame (Ignitor 2.1 tire). The clearance is pretty tight, so I doubt anything larger than a true 2.2 would fit on the rear.

    I will try to post pictures later this week.
    thats the exact frame i wanted 3k/matte

    can you gimme a list of the frame specs? head tube sizes, seat tube, bottom bracket, etc

    thanks!

  58. #858
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    Quote Originally Posted by AkumaY View Post
    thats the exact frame i wanted 3k/matte

    can you gimme a list of the frame specs? head tube sizes, seat tube, bottom bracket, etc

    thanks!
    All of the frame specs are on this drawing:

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13171557/HF-...%2829er%29.pdf

    Other things to note:
    -I think the biggest rear brake rotor you can run is 160mm. There is very little clearance between the rotor and the frame on my bike. I think a 185mm rotor would run into the frame.

    -Rear tire clearance is fairly narrow. The drawings spec a max tire size of just over 2.1. I think you might be able to squeeze a 2.2 in there, but my 2.1 (Maxxis Ignitor Exo) is pretty tight as it is.

  59. #859
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    For those that have HongFu's frame, can you tell me what type front derailluer works ? High or Low, and clamp size?

  60. #860
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    Quote Originally Posted by dada85 View Post
    I want to know the quality can be guaranteed?

  61. #861
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    How much does a carbon-steel frame usally take off the weight compared to ordinary stell frames?

  62. #862
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericepark View Post
    For those that have HongFu's frame, can you tell me what type front derailluer works ? High or Low, and clamp size?
    34.9 clamp.

    high clamp (down swing)

    top pull

  63. #863
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas SH View Post
    How much does a carbon-steel frame usally take off the weight compared to ordinary stell frames?
    carbon-steel IS ordinary steel

  64. #864
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    http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/45...ike_frame.html

    looks like people are starting to import more in quantity looks just like mine except for more money don't deal with middle men go staright to the source in China. at $320 it can't be beat 1240 grams just shy of 3 lbs I am loving building out one of my glossy frames will post picks when I am done. already turned down $500 for just 1 frame.

    something tells me get the while you can, its insanity and what most likely happened is someone stole or found some sworks dies or mold or scott dies and thats how they are making copies. Because the steels dies is whats hard to come by OCLV the raw carbon fiber matts are cheap and easy to get.

  65. #865
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    damn... i payed a lot of extra money for the customer service at hong fu....

  66. #866
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ice Cold View Post
    http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/45...ike_frame.html

    looks like people are starting to import more in quantity looks just like mine except for more money don't deal with middle men go staright to the source in China. at $320 it can't be beat 1240 grams just shy of 3 lbs I am loving building out one of my glossy frames will post picks when I am done. already turned down $500 for just 1 frame.

    something tells me get the while you can, its insanity and what most likely happened is someone stole or found some sworks dies or mold or scott dies and thats how they are making copies. Because the steels dies is whats hard to come by OCLV the raw carbon fiber matts are cheap and easy to get.
    That's not a 29er is it?

  67. #867
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    Quote Originally Posted by syl3 View Post
    34.9 clamp.

    high clamp (down swing)

    top pull

    Thank you

  68. #868
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    Ran into another issue today with the rear brake rotor on my frame (HF053). There isn't enough clearance between the frame and the rotor bolts...as the rotor spins around the bolt heads strike the inside of the frame. It looks like I'm going to have to rivet them on or find a lower profile bolt. The rear brake setup is a mess on this frame in my opinion.

    The hub I am using is Stans 3.30 with a standard 6 bolt mount, so I think this issue is purely down to the frame setup.

  69. #869
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ice Cold View Post
    something tells me get the while you can, its insanity and what most likely happened is someone stole or found some sworks dies or mold or scott dies and thats how they are making copies. Because the steels dies is whats hard to come by OCLV the raw carbon fiber matts are cheap and easy to get.
    I'm not saying these carbon frames aren't nice, because some of them are very nice! But these are NOT Trek's, Specialized's, Scott's, etc. Some of the frames look a little bit like other frames from big companies, but none of them are the same.

  70. #870
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    double post

  71. #871
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    I have the Hong Fu 29er HF053 and I noticed the max rotor it can run is 160mm. The clearance is very tight. I'm running Alligator center lock adapters, but clearance for where the bolts would be is also tight. I put a little clear bra on the inside so the rotor wont scratch the frame.



    I think the max tire is 2.1, I'm running IRC Mythos and the hairs rub the frame.


  72. #872
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    Thanks for the heads up

  73. #873
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    I just posted a bunch of pics in the general discussion forum on the chinese carbon frames. I didn't feel like re-posting 8-9 pics so I'll just include the link. I have pics with tire clearance and rotor clearance for the particular frame that I bought.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=536473&page=19

  74. #874
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    Here's some pictures of the issue I'm having with the rotor bolts hitting the post mount structure on the frame (HF053). Why would they design it like this...?

    This is taken from the underside of the frame.



    More pics in this gallery: https://min.us/mbRA9fe



    I don't know if i should just file down my rotor bolts? Or do they sell lower profile torx head bolts? There's maybe a half a millimeter of interference between them and the frame. Outside of buying a centerlock hub, what other options do I have?

  75. #875
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    Have you tried different hubs? Also you might be able to put a washer between the frame and hub, which pushes the frame away from the rotor. Not ideal, but I have seen it done on some bikes before.

  76. #876
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    Are those the X9 hubs?

  77. #877
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    MCS have you tried fitting the actual calipers yet? I would think if the bolts are rubbing on the mounts then the mounts may be too close for the calipers to align properly, even with the normal amount of adjustment you get.

  78. #878
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    Quote Originally Posted by lachstar2 View Post
    Have you tried different hubs? Also you might be able to put a washer between the frame and hub, which pushes the frame away from the rotor. Not ideal, but I have seen it done on some bikes before.
    I haven't tried different hubs yet. I guess I could throw the wheels from my 26er on there and see if I have the same issue. I might pick up a washer and try that.

    Quote Originally Posted by vierzwanzig View Post
    Are those the X9 hubs?
    The hubs are Stans 3.30.

    Quote Originally Posted by emu26 View Post
    MCS have you tried fitting the actual calipers yet? I would think if the bolts are rubbing on the mounts then the mounts may be too close for the calipers to align properly, even with the normal amount of adjustment you get.
    I put the calipers on real quick to test this out. It appears that you can get them to fit without rubbing, but you need to slide them as far outward as you can to prevent the outside brake pad from rubbing the rotor.

    I don't know if this frame was designed with another brake/hub standard in mind. It is very frustrating.

  79. #879
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    My Fisher frame was sporting a MADE IN CHINA sticker on it when I bought it. So I'm gonna have to say I'm still gonna order one.

  80. #880
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCS5280 View Post

    I don't know if i should just file down my rotor bolts? Or do they sell lower profile torx head bolts? There's maybe a half a millimeter of interference between them and the frame. Outside of buying a centerlock hub, what other options do I have?
    I would have already taken a dremel to the bolts you have and move on. Looks like you only need to grind down a very small portion of the head. Just make sure you don't cut into the area where the wrench goes (looks like you might have to, could make getting them off difficult). There's plenty of meat on those standard steel avid bolts, it won't be a safety issue.

    I have some ti bolts I bought on ebay a long time ago, they have smaller, more triangular heads.

    IMO another option would be to file a very small notch in that spot where the bolts hit. Before everybody starts with the I will admit that I have no idea if that area is solid or hollow but I'd bet the house its solid and taking a tiny bit off wouldn't cause an issue. Looks like the bolts already chipped it a little anyway.

  81. #881
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    I ordered the hong fu frame also (before I really read into tire clearance and other issues).... and now there are more and more unknowns... I wonder if you can shave a MM or 2 off the rotor where the bolts go through... the trouble would be keeping things very flat as your removing material. I would do that and shave the bolts down a bit.
    Last edited by vierzwanzig; 07-05-2011 at 12:32 PM.

  82. #882
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    I'm interested in a group buy frame for ~$320 so I can use spare parts for a single speed at a minimal investment. Would prefer not to buy from China, but as my wife is unemployed due to the economy, the savings are big compared to an USA made equivalent.

  83. #883
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    As mentioned previously I would try a small washer on the outside of the hubs to move the frame away from the rotor more.

    If it doesn't work you haven't lost anything, the frame and bolts are all still intact, if it does work then it will also help with caliper alignment.

    Have you sent Hong fu an email with the pics attached? It is entirely possible that the jig holding the caliper mount wasn't aligned to the mould properly and as such you have a "faulty" frame. It seems unusual that noone else is reporting similar problems

  84. #884
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    Quote Originally Posted by loddie View Post
    I'm interested in a group buy frame for ~$320 so I can use spare parts for a single speed at a minimal investment. Would prefer not to buy from China, but as my wife is unemployed due to the economy, the savings are big compared to an USA made equivalent.
    Why not do an individual buy on ebay for $300?

  85. #885
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    Quote Originally Posted by emu26 View Post
    As mentioned previously I would try a small washer on the outside of the hubs to move the frame away from the rotor more.

    If it doesn't work you haven't lost anything, the frame and bolts are all still intact, if it does work then it will also help with caliper alignment.

    Have you sent Hong fu an email with the pics attached? It is entirely possible that the jig holding the caliper mount wasn't aligned to the mould properly and as such you have a "faulty" frame. It seems unusual that noone else is reporting similar problems
    If you put the washer on the hub end cap, would that make it slick and be a lot easier to slip out of the dropout?

  86. #886
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    Quote Originally Posted by qdawgg View Post
    Why not do an individual buy on ebay for $300?
    huh? Which ebay are you looking at?

  87. #887
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    Quote Originally Posted by 92gli View Post
    I would have already taken a dremel to the bolts you have and move on. Looks like you only need to grind down a very small portion of the head. Just make sure you don't cut into the area where the wrench goes (looks like you might have to, could make getting them off difficult). There's plenty of meat on those standard steel avid bolts, it won't be a safety issue.
    +1
    and drop off the washers if you haven't already and don't over torque the bolts jus use a little locktyte and should be able to get off easily but will be quite solid 5 bolts. I wouldn't miter the frame, jus bolt heads. I have the same frame and clearance is pretty close on a wtb hub as well but is clear.
    If you washer the hub to the right you could get a bit better chainline too with several possible consequences.
    (Btw, I needed to adjust spacers with the crank bearings and on the cassette to get the tolerable chainline crossover I typically ride on a Shim 3 ring crank. I expected it on such a racey tight rear triangle.)
    - will affect rotor location depending on your brake caliper lateral adaptability this might not be a problem.
    -The big issue could be; with the tire clearance already at a premium you could need to dish the rim back to the center depending on tires you plan.
    -Also your cassette small cog clearance on the right seatstay could be tight. (not sure really have not looked at it)
    Very small changes laterally can possibly have large consequences when fitting big wheels on a race frame.
    So just do the bolt heads imho.
    Sorry, if this post is hard to read gotta go to bed hope it makes sense.
    imho, yrmv.
    If it was a problem with the mold or something I would expect it would be quite noticeable,
    like one post mount tab hole not lined up.
    I have one of those stans hubs built up if you want me to check it in my frame.
    Edit: ok i will check. But I think it will clear because I am running alligator iwave rotor that are thinner than most rotors.
    Which brings up another point, smaller bolt heads and less thick rotor.
    I would not throw the frame under the bus quite yet till you ride it
    Last edited by ghawk; 07-06-2011 at 03:45 AM.

  88. #888
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2002maniac View Post
    huh? Which ebay are you looking at?
    I've been posting here and on the general discussion board with the same topic. I didn't realize the 29er frames were so much more than the 26ers, my bad.

  89. #889
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghawk View Post
    +1
    and drop off the washers if you haven't already and don't over torque the bolts jus use a little locktyte and should be able to get off easily but will be quite solid 5 bolts. I wouldn't miter the frame, jus bolt heads. I have the same frame and clearance is pretty close on a wtb hub as well but is clear.
    If you washer the hub to the right you could get a bit better chainline too with several possible consequences.
    (Btw, I needed to adjust spacers with the crank bearings and on the cassette to get the tolerable chainline crossover I typically ride on a Shim 3 ring crank. I expected it on such a racey tight rear triangle.)
    - will affect rotor location depending on your brake caliper lateral adaptability this might not be a problem.
    -The big issue could be; with the tire clearance already at a premium you could need to dish the rim back to the center depending on tires you plan.
    -Also your cassette small cog clearance on the right seatstay could be tight. (not sure really have not looked at it)
    Very small changes laterally can possibly have large consequences when fitting big wheels on a race frame.
    So just do the bolt heads imho.
    Sorry, if this post is hard to read gotta go to bed hope it makes sense.
    imho, yrmv.
    If it was a problem with the mold or something I would expect it would be quite noticeable,
    like one post mount tab hole not lined up.
    I have one of those stans hubs built up if you want me to check it in my frame.
    If you could check your frame with the Stan's hubs that would be great. Right now I'm looking into finding some fasteners with a lower profile head. If that doesn't work out i'll be filing down the heads.

  90. #890
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCS5280 View Post
    The hubs are Stans 3.30.
    Have you taken the hubs apart at some point? Because I once mistakenly swapped the left and right axle endcaps, and ended up with a number of disc bolts impacting my frame as well!

    The non-driveside axle cap is longer than the driveside cap.

  91. #891
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    nvm... the post has been edited.

  92. #892
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCS5280 View Post
    If you could check your frame with the Stan's hubs that would be great. Right now I'm looking into finding some fasteners with a lower profile head. If that doesn't work out i'll be filing down the heads.
    Im having the same issue with my Hong Fu frame. Running Stans ZTR hub with Shimano XT 6 bolt rotors and the bolt heads are skimming the frame. Really frustrating........ if it wasn't for this damn issue I'd be riding. At this point I m tempted to just take a file to the area where it rubs and like previously suggested "file a notch where it skims" but at the same time I m hesitant to do this as I have never owned a carbon frame before, let alone file one down....only options I guess are:

    1) find new bolts with smaller heads (not likely as the shimano triangular looking bolt heads I have are already quite tiny)

    2) new rear hub/ wheel w/ center lock hubs (this seems too far off just to accommodate damn frame)

    3) file bolt heads down ( honestly I'd hate to have to do this)

    4) file notch in frame where it skims

    any suggestions let me know..... MCS5280 whatcha route you gonna do man? I seriously leaning towards filing the damn frame ...... ahhhh headache. Obviously the QC at Hong Fu is very poor for this to happen.

  93. #893
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    as stated above... the only issue that can arise from shaving the bolt down, is stripping it upon removal. As long as you use some good lock-tite on the bolts when you install them (and dont torque them like crazy) then you should be fine. In the past, I have heated up stuck bolts prior to removal... I have noticed that the heat will soften up most types of lock-tite in the threads

  94. #894
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    Quote Originally Posted by funnyjr View Post
    Im having the same issue with my Hong Fu frame. Running Stans ZTR hub with Shimano XT 6 bolt rotors and the bolt heads are skimming the frame. Really frustrating........ if it wasn't for this damn issue I'd be riding. At this point I m tempted to just take a file to the area where it rubs and like previously suggested "file a notch where it skims" but at the same time I m hesitant to do this as I have never owned a carbon frame before, let alone file one down....only options I guess are:

    1) find new bolts with smaller heads (not likely as the shimano triangular looking bolt heads I have are already quite tiny)

    2) new rear hub/ wheel w/ center lock hubs (this seems too far off just to accommodate damn frame)

    3) file bolt heads down ( honestly I'd hate to have to do this)

    4) file notch in frame where it skims

    any suggestions let me know..... MCS5280 whatcha route you gonna do man? I seriously leaning towards filing the damn frame ...... ahhhh headache. Obviously the QC at Hong Fu is very poor for this to happen.
    really, really don't do #4. I don't know your frame but I'd probably force a big washer between the frame and hub where the axle is as long as the stays aren't crazy stiff.

  95. #895
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCS5280 View Post
    If you could check your frame with the Stan's hubs that would be great. Right now I'm looking into finding some fasteners with a lower profile head. If that doesn't work out i'll be filing down the heads.
    Yup, just checked it's the hubs.
    Even with my Alligator iwave rotors that are about .56mm thin (note but WITH washers) there is a very slight rub. (from your pics, looks like you have more clearance than I would with thicker rotor) If I were to put something like avid rotors on there which are about 1.04mm even without washer I would have to miter the bolt heads. Which is very EASY to do btw if you have a dremel set. (If you don't and you are doing bike builds....you need one.) Note, you might find some flat head bolts at Ace or Home depot. (big maybe on that)
    This is not the first time I have had problems with Stans hubs both front and back. Back you have to always check the tightness as the are easily unscrewed without locking bolts. Sometimes in the middle of a ride. Front, 15mm endcaps will just fall out on you when you are putting the fork in because they press fit very poorly. That said, I have had really good luck with their rims and love the lightweight economical wheels they do for tubless setups.
    So for everyone throwing their 053 frames under the school bus. Ya might want to try the awesome ride for the price first.

  96. #896
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    Quote Originally Posted by syl3 View Post
    carbon-steel IS ordinary steel

    I'm in the music/audio field. It was da bomb 25 years ago when loudspeaker manufacturers (including the one I worked for at that time) added the prefix "graphite-impregnated" in front of the word "polypropylene" describing their woofer diaphragms. Psssst..don't tell anyone, but graphite is one of the ultra-secret ingredients comprising black paint.

  97. #897
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    It's disappointing to hear this stuff about the Hong Fu frame and the brake rub. I haven't built mine up yet, but if I have that problem I might be inclined to just junk it, as I wouldn't have much faith in the rest of it.
    you signed up just to write that?

  98. #898
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    Looks pretty cool!

  99. #899
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    Quote Originally Posted by finch2 View Post
    really, really don't do #4. I don't know your frame but I'd probably force a big washer between the frame and hub where the axle is as long as the stays aren't crazy stiff.
    So I took the plunge today and took a file to shave down the problem area where the rotor bolts skim the frame. Got about 1.5mm clearance now. Wheel spins freely like a charm. Honestly, it was not a big deal at all. What I filed off was simply minimal top epoxy layer. I have no concerns whatsoever with de-lamination of carbon weave or detriments to frames integrity. Nada, problem solved. If you really want to pay attention to detail I guess can simply cover area filed down w/ a coat of clear or black touch up. Thats what I'll eventually do. Just becareful when filing and only take as much off as needed in problem spot. File on.

  100. #900
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    Quote Originally Posted by syl3 View Post
    you signed up just to write that?


    Having really found anything really that wrong with the hf53/frame I have. wheel clearance is tight, chainline is tight. Bike is really racey and flys uphill.
    If I were young like most of you guys I would run something like a Sram XX 2x 39/26 on it.

    I have been doing this stuff for a long time and had many expensive mountain bikes over the last 20 years with various little problems; but none of this quality for under 600 bucks shipped for the frame.

    I tried a Stans hub also and it is the hub clearance mentioned previously and not a misalignment. I have allot of wheels so I simply used another otherwise I would have simply ground the bolt heads a bit. NOT the frame.
    I mean I don't see anything wrong if there is a metal yoke in there and you don't take too much of the supporting carbon away in an area that probably needs to be optiomal because of the forces exerted on it when braking. .


    Quote Originally Posted by MCS5280 View Post
    Threw the wheels and fork on my frame (HF053, 3k matte finish) for fun. Need to get a shop to cut the steerer tube etc. I'm kind of wishing my fork was white instead of black, but I'll live with it.

    http://min.us/mvbFpib (use arrow keys to go to different pictures)
    Switching topics, Mash looking at your 2011 Talas 95/120 29 it does not look like the stancions are Kashima coated. I am wondering cause I just got one it that looks the same. I compared it to 2 other older Talas's I have and really do not see the difference. Thanks for great pics btw. Edit: Never mind I just talked to Andy I did not realize they sold 2011 forks without the coating.
    Last edited by glovemtb; 07-06-2011 at 03:47 PM.

  101. #901
    1*14*29*2.1 & 1*1*29*2.4
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    Quote Originally Posted by funnyjr View Post
    So I took the plunge today and took a file to shave down the problem area where the rotor bolts skim the frame. Got about 1.5mm clearance now. Wheel spins freely like a charm. Honestly, it was not a big deal at all. What I filed off was simply minimal top epoxy layer. I have no concerns whatsoever with de-lamination of carbon weave or detriments to frames integrity. Nada, problem solved. If you really want to pay attention to detail I guess can simply cover area filed down w/ a coat of clear or black touch up. Thats what I'll eventually do. Just becareful when filing and only take as much off as needed in problem spot. File on.
    sounds like you'l be fine if it's extra beefy and you haven't cut into the carbon.

  102. #902
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    I've been experimenting with a lot of things to solve this brake issue. I tried to work on the bolt heads but it would require me to shave down the torx bit area, which would increase the risk of stripping the bolts.

    My solution right now is to add a rubber washer in the non-drive side dropout. It provides about 0.5mm of extra space for the bolts to clear when compressed by the skewer. I've looked at the tire alignment etc and it still seems to be okay. Hopefully the wheel will stay in the dropout. It feels fairly secure, and the rubber grips the dropout fairly well.

  103. #903
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    Make sure you atleast clear coat. Carbon is very quirky. Just ask sorry saps who jumped on board in the first five years of the fad... They are still trying to dial it in. Saving that little/lot weight for a bike you roll the dice if it falls to the ground....

  104. #904
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    Is a bicycle parts?

  105. #905
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    Hong Fu frame and brake rub

    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    It's disappointing to hear this stuff about the Hong Fu frame and the brake rub. I haven't built mine up yet, but if I have that problem I might be inclined to just junk it, as I wouldn't have much faith in the rest of it.
    -----------------------------------------
    FYI Regarding Hong Fu Frame buid up
    I just built up my Hong Fu 29er - Found the 180mm rubbing issue - moved to 160's
    Summary Below:
    Brakes: BB7's
    Rotors: i hada set of 180mm rotors which rubbed so i moved back to 160's and they now work fine.
    Rotor Bolts: No issue rubbing on frame.
    Rims are Stans Arch and Hubs are Stans std hub
    Running 1X9 set up
    The bike is Suuuuweeet.

  106. #906
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    Smile This is more like a triangle

    This is more like a triangle

  107. #907
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    Dear mods:

    Please stop the chinese spammers from posting in this thread every night using google translate.

    Love,

    Every other poster in this thread.

  108. #908
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    Actually....

    Quote Originally Posted by MCS5280 View Post
    Dear mods:

    Please stop the chinese spammers from posting in this thread every night using google translate.

    Love,

    Every other poster in this thread.
    I think it's pretty dang funny.

  109. #909
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    delicious us is the eating of color bike riding bbq.

  110. #910
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    Quote Originally Posted by rubberhoe View Post
    I have the Hong Fu 29er HF053 and I noticed the max rotor it can run is 160mm. The clearance is very tight. I'm running Alligator center lock adapters, but clearance for where the bolts would be is also tight. I put a little clear bra on the inside so the rotor wont scratch the frame.



    I think the max tire is 2.1, I'm running IRC Mythos and the hairs rub the frame.


    Bummer, and deal breaker for me now. My experience with break rotor sizes: Long steep downhill sections on my trail, plus I'm a bit over the maximum weight limit posted in this thread anyway. For front rotors I've ridden 160, 185, and 215 mm...rear I've ridden 185 and 160 mm. I'd never choose anything smaller than 215/185. I raced motorcycles and drove late model Porsche Carrera, No other vehicle has modulate-at-the-limit control and pleasure of properly functioning hydraulic large-rotor MTB brakes. It might be unnecessary up to normal weight riders, but over 200 lbs on a long steep downhill with gravel and the difference is huge and unmistakable. Downhill's the only area I can make up for my slow going uphill, and 40 mph on dirt, without a motor, on 30 lbs of bike is exquisite. I'd have given up motorcycles a long time ago if I discovered MTB earlier.

  111. #911
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    Finally finished building up my Hong-Fail frame. Ride report and pics will come tomorrow, as it decided to start raining tonight.

    My LBS somehow fixed the rotor bolt rubbing issue by using a different skewer for the rear tire. They also confirmed that my rear dropouts are not aligned. It looks like the quality control on the rear section of this frame is fairly low.

    Very frustrating build, but the bike came out to 22 pounds which is not too bad for the money I invested in it. My previous bike was a 33 pound hardtail, so this will feel like riding a feather (I hope).

  112. #912
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    New question here. What does that mean?

    What does that mean?

  113. #913
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    Do people with the LTK023 have issues as well or is it just the Hong Fu frames?

  114. #914
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCS5280 View Post
    They also confirmed that my rear dropouts are not aligned. It looks like the quality control on the rear section of this frame is fairly low.

    Very frustrating build, but the bike came out to 22 pounds which is not too bad for the money I invested in it. My previous bike was a 33 pound hardtail, so this will feel like riding a feather (I hope).
    How did they confirm this? Did they show you this can you tell? This would be a huge fail to me on these frames. This would indicate a mold issue.

  115. #915
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCS5280 View Post
    Finally finished building up my Hong-Fail frame. Ride report and pics will come tomorrow, as it decided to start raining tonight.

    My LBS somehow fixed the rotor bolt rubbing issue by using a different skewer for the rear tire. They also confirmed that my rear dropouts are not aligned. It looks like the quality control on the rear section of this frame is fairly low.

    Very frustrating build, but the bike came out to 22 pounds which is not too bad for the money I invested in it. My previous bike was a 33 pound hardtail, so this will feel like riding a feather (I hope).
    how does the skewer help? I don't understand how that works!

  116. #916
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dictatorsaurus View Post
    Do people with the LTK023 have issues as well or is it just the Hong Fu frames?
    +1


    The one I have on the way is the LTK023.............


    Thanks

  117. #917
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    Quote Originally Posted by maptp View Post
    What does that mean?
    What does what mean? What the hell are you talking about.

  118. #918
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCS5280 View Post
    Finally finished building up my Hong-Fail frame. Ride report and pics will come tomorrow, as it decided to start raining tonight.

    My LBS somehow fixed the rotor bolt rubbing issue by using a different skewer for the rear tire. They also confirmed that my rear dropouts are not aligned. It looks like the quality control on the rear section of this frame is fairly low.

    Very frustrating build,
    but the bike came out to 22 pounds which is not too bad for the money I invested in it. My previous bike was a 33 pound hardtail, so this will feel like riding a feather (I hope).
    Are you frustrated with the build b/c of the issues you've had? I'm assuming so just wondering. 22lbs is pretty damn good, any idea if the rear dropout alignment is going to effect the ride or handling?

    I took pictures of my bike with the wheelset (which I linked in this thread) from my santa cruz just to show how the frame would look with wheels. I didn't notice any alignment issues but I also wasn't looking for any, maybe I'll put the wheels on again and double check. I also got my frame from ebay, so I'm assuming from a different source but who really knows.

  119. #919
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    Quote Originally Posted by subspd View Post
    How did they confirm this? Did they show you this can you tell? This would be a huge fail to me on these frames. This would indicate a mold issue.
    They used one of those park tool dropout alignment tools on it (if the frame was steel or aluminum they could've fixed it). They said its not aligned, but they think it will be useable (shop owner says he's seen worse).

    Quote Originally Posted by finch2 View Post
    how does the skewer help? I don't understand how that works!
    I really don't know how it helped but it did. They told me they swapped out my skewer (stock Stan's skewer) with a beefier one and somehow with it the bolt heads clear by the width of a bee's dick. They said the Stan's skewer was not gripping the dropouts very well, and they were able to make the wheel slip out under high pedaling load.

    Quote Originally Posted by qdawgg View Post
    Are you frustrated with the build b/c of the issues you've had? I'm assuming so just wondering. 22lbs is pretty damn good, any idea if the rear dropout alignment is going to effect the ride or handling?
    My frustrations are with the issues on the rear of the bike. I'm praying that they frame will work even with these issues.

    First ride report:

    Everything else seems like it works great. I took the bike for its inaugural ride today. I started with a shakedown on some gravel trails, and progressively increased the pace/technicality of the trails I rode. Overall I did 25 miles.

    The good:
    -Very stiff but absorbs the bumps well.
    -Absolute climbing machine.
    -Fairly easy to flick around on the trail.
    -Very fun through steep rocky sections.

    The issues:
    -I don't trust the frame yet. I haven't been able to push myself to full speed for fear that the rear end will explode into a million shards of carbon. This will go away with time. I found myself constant looking down at the rear wheel to make sure it wasn't twisting in dropouts etc.
    -Some washboard bumps on fire roads seem to resonate through the frame (its almost like their spacing matches a critical frequency in the frame and creates resonance).
    -Steering is slower than what I'm used to. This is to be expected, as I've spent the last 3 years riding a 26er.
    -I wish my rear derailleur was black or white instead of red. Oh well.

    **Please note that this was the second time in my life that I've ridden a 29er and the first time on a carbon frame. What I'm noticing could be influenced by these factors as well.**

    Overall, I'm tentatively pleased with the bike. I think once I learn that I can trust the frame, it will be loads of fun.

    Pics: (I still need to finalize my headset height and trim my rear brake cable down accordingly. Please ignore the zip ties for now)





    Gallery with more pictures: https://min.us/mbNwlt4

  120. #920
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    Thanks for the follow up.

  121. #921
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    Thanks for review.

    Frame/rear drops not aligned ? So you say your wheel is not straight in the rear triangle ? Usually enough misalignment a mm or more out of tolerance is pretty detectable by looking at how your wheel lines up in the rear triangle. (or some other funny stuff going on) I am not saying you are wrong as I guess any frame when it cools off coming out of molds could come out a little funny. But I am saying only maybe about 5% or so ever do. I had an Ibis Moj that the suspension axle bores were off by a tiny fraction before. Not enough to matter.

    I really don't know how it helped but it did. They told me they swapped out my skewer (stock Stan's skewer) with a beefier one and somehow with it the bolt heads clear by the width of a bee's dick. They said the Stan's skewer was not gripping the dropouts very well, and they were able to make the wheel slip out under high pedaling load.
    I think problems with Stan's hubs have been beaten to death but here we go for newbees on the subject.
    Maybe the lil rubber gromlet on the qr lever side is messed up. (old school skewers did not used to have them. I think they were introduced to prevent over-tightening and stripping the skewer but they might allow some play in there.) Also, if the Stan's rear hub is not tightened down a loc-tyted, it will cause the skewer to come loose no matter what qr you have on there. (use search function on forums this issue with the hubs was reported a couple of years ago by some folks.) I would use an old beefy classic XT or Kore skewer on that hub or a non qr axle locking one but don't over tighten.
    But, again, if the hub itself is not tightened down it sits in the drop more than 135mm (don't quote me on that) it could expand the dropouts slightly and all of the sudden you get clearance for the bolts..as if by magic ....; but that is not the way you want to get it.
    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html
    Oh yea, and did i say locktyte (see in picture.)
    Here is a pic where fast_twitch broke down the hub.
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=669315

    I was going to suggest to some of you guys that are anguishing some small issues in building your china clones, to do what he did and take to a bike shop with experienced personnel that know what they are doing.
    (with park certified techs)

    I have a few tools at home and checked the HF53 frame with the park faq2 and ffg2 and it was within tolerance, maybe a tiny bit off but not much.
    These molds have to pretty much be right on or....not i hazard another guess.

    However, I needed to align the hanger (park dag2). If they did not check that at shop then they should have as part of the bare frame inspection. Better yet, if you don't have the tool, you should have. On mtb bikes and even road bikes the hangers bend all the time.
    http://www.parktool.com/product/dera...nt-gauge-dag-2
    Same is true for anyone building up these frames and then possibly complaining that they shift poorly and blaming the frame, etc. Do it right and then complain like I do.

    Anyways, glad you got to ride it and it is a good stiff hard-tail frame with great steering for a 29er. The steering is not slow but slower as you noted than a 26" wheeled bike. (71.5 tapered ha.)
    One of my other bikes is a Tallboy with angleset headset set to 72 degrees and it steers as well as that bike.
    Just one man's opinion. yrmv
    Enjoy the ride !
    Edit: old news.
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=567088 More of these threads out there if you search.
    Edit2
    Okay just for fun and the paranoia started, I took frame to friend who used to build molds and all that stuff for a bike company and has been a bike engineer for 25 years, he did a quick check the dropout alignment rear and front triangle and it seemed to be fine to him also.
    Below so everyone with these frames won't be freaking out thinking they are all out of alignment:
    Here is a hack drop out check tool: Get an old skewer without the wheel and push in the dropout without the nut on the other side. Does it line up in the other dropout ?
    (another way to make one with 1 or 2 skewers when cut in half and a couple of washers to hold in place to see if they are center aligned but the above method should give you a pretty good idea of major rear dropout alignment issues.)
    Then for the front-end alignment just put a 10 dollar protractor like in below url from Home Depot on the seattube and then on the fork stancion (can't use head tube remember it is tapered and you will think it is out of alignment), the angles should be pretty darn close.
    http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...00&R=100165800
    A little common sense before freaking out about misalignment goes along way. sorry for long winded hopefully some is useful.
    Last edited by glovemtb; 07-10-2011 at 04:38 PM.

  122. #922
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    A little common sense before freaking out about misalignment goes along way. sorry for long winded hopefully some is useful.
    I checked alignment in my Hong Fu 53 mine when it came in and yes I too have all the tools to do the job correctly. http://www.e-hongfu-bikes.com/index....roducts_id=274
    It was fine front and back was absolutely right on.
    I also had to do hanger alignment but I always get that within a couple of millimeters though the tolerance is about 4mm if remembered correctly. Yes if you are going to learn to do your own stuff with a bike the Dag tool is essential as well as keeping an extra hanger around so when you order your frame order one...and no I am not a chinese spy but I do know at-least a little bike tech before spewing my propaganda on mtbr.
    and I used to be before the end of the cold war.

  123. #923
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    New question here. Other vehicles can be used?

    Other vehicles can be used?

  124. #924
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    Lmao

    Quote Originally Posted by demap View Post
    Other vehicles can be used?
    Gotta love Google Translate.

  125. #925
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    This.

    Quote Originally Posted by whrdr View Post
    The American dream has been crushed more by tax cuts that benefit the ultra rich and increase globalization without benefiting the average American.
    Same folks that leverage for the tax cuts are hoping to deliver the final blow to what's left of our middle class by going after unions.

  126. #926
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    Commuter Bike Build

    Had the MTB854 frame painted locally ("civil green"). Hope/Arch front and used rear C29SSMAX. Second hand Elixir CRs, front and rear der mechs.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Chinese Carbon 29er-20110628_greenbike_0004.jpg  

    Chinese Carbon 29er-20110628_greenbike_0003.jpg  

    Chinese Carbon 29er-20110628_greenbike_0014.jpg  

    Chinese Carbon 29er-20110628_greenbike_0010.jpg  

    Chinese Carbon 29er-20110628_greenbike_0008.jpg  


  127. #927
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    nice! Can't wait to see it finished!
    My Bike: http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?...3&postcount=49

    On-One Whippet 650b XC machine

  128. #928
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    Nice!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark2c View Post
    Had the MTB854 frame painted locally ("civil green"). Hope/Arch front and used rear C29SSMAX. Second hand Elixir CRs, front and rear der mechs.
    I would love to do the same thing when I get my frame. Where did you have it done? What was the method? How much did it cost you, if you don't mind my asking?

    Sweet!!

  129. #929
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark2c View Post
    Had the MTB854 frame painted locally ("civil green"). Hope/Arch front and used rear C29SSMAX. Second hand Elixir CRs, front and rear der mechs.
    More questions here

    I'm curious about the fork, what's the axle-to-crown distance?

  130. #930
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    Awesome paint job

  131. #931
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    Quote Originally Posted by zhouda View Post
    I think something should be useful
    Really?!? (is this even trolling) I agree in principal. Things in general should be useful.

    Back on topic: Btw, that green is sick! I'm been saving my cash up and I'm ready to place an order. What is the consensus? I need a size large 29er (6'1" 180lbs, long arms), internal cable routing, fork, seatpost, bars, headset, and hangers. Who should I contact overseas? Anyone down for a group buy (SOCA/IE)? PM.

    Going to move parts from my current whip, f29 120, formula RX, arch/chub, 1x10. Suggestion from those who have had success with getting a quality frame at a reasonable price in a decent amount of wait time is much appreciated.

    Yes, I have read every page of this thread, know how to use the search function, and google is my middle name, jk. Just looking for the bottom line. Who should I order from?
    fresh out from the halfway-house

  132. #932
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    Commuter Bike Built...

    Here are some pics of the finished bike.

    Paint job was about US$150 as the two pot paint was free. They sanded and preped the clear coated frame and masked most of the bit they needed to (I cleared the crown race while the paint was still gooey).

    Speaking of such, the crown race to axle measurement is 480mm. The fork is an MFK701 from GOTOBIKE. Seatpost is an SP901 also from GOTOBIKE.

    Front tire is a Hutchinson Python 2.1 and the rear is a Geax Barro Race 2.0 both tubeless with Stans goo.

    Weight is 21.0 lb with the pedals and lights (Quazzle triple with LiPo on the front).

    Need to put a chain stay protector on it. It is great off road - not the pogostick I'm used to - ie a cheap 26" steel rigid.

    The 21" frame suits me well at just under 6' 2". I'm very happy with GOTOBIKE, the frame delivered the bike to my home in New Zealand just three days after ordering. Remember to have the headset and hanger provided with the frame (not a optional extras).

    Cripes Zhouda! This is a bike forum, are you selling ice to the Eskimos as well?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Chinese Carbon 29er-20110713_0020.jpg  

    Chinese Carbon 29er-20110713_0025.jpg  

    Chinese Carbon 29er-20110713_0028.jpg  

    Chinese Carbon 29er-20110713_0030.jpg  

    Chinese Carbon 29er-20110713_0031.jpg  

    Last edited by Mark2c; 07-12-2011 at 01:10 AM.

  133. #933
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    Mark that looks fantastic, have you christened it Kermit?

    On another note, does anyone else have concerns about the dropouts being CF and not al bonded into the CF tubes?

  134. #934
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    Mark's Commuter Cont...

    Thanks Emu!

    The bike is called something else cos it goes like snot...

    All the hard points are metal on my MTB854, just painted over them.

  135. #935
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    Wow! Nice! That's a hell of a lot bike for a commuter! Bet you can throw some XC races in as well!
    My Bike: http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?...3&postcount=49

    On-One Whippet 650b XC machine

  136. #936
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    Would a 470mm axle to crown rigid fork work well for the LTK023 frame?

  137. #937
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark2c View Post
    Thanks Emu!

    The bike is called something else cos it goes like snot...

    All the hard points are metal on my MTB854, just painted over them.
    Keep us posted on how it holds up if you would. Where did you order it from again?

  138. #938
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    Smile There are many types to choose from

    There are many types to choose from

  139. #939
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    Quote Originally Posted by subspd View Post
    Keep us posted on how it holds up if you would. Where did you order it from again?
    GOTOBIKE. Will do.

  140. #940
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    Here's Another Sourcing Our Friends In China

    http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-2011-FULL-CA...-/280703201781

    "Hand laid, unidirectional carbon matte. Monoque construction. This construction technique reduces voids, joint weak points, air pockets, etc. Creats a stronger, lighter frame than machine layups typical of most Asian knockoffs."

    .....so this is not like most of the other Asian knockoffs. That is spelled monocoque btw....

    Drill down to the 29er and get a close look at the frame and geo chart. I have seen that geo chart somewhere before but can't remember where.

    http://www.oneghost.net/One_Ghost_In...ONIN_29ER.html

  141. #941
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    so it would appear a one year warranty on a frame that cost about $400 is going to cost about $700

  142. #942
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    Quote Originally Posted by glovemtb View Post
    http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-2011-FULL-CA...-/280703201781

    "Hand laid, unidirectional carbon matte. Monoque construction. This construction technique reduces voids, joint weak points, air pockets, etc. Creats a stronger, lighter frame than machine layups typical of most Asian knockoffs."

    .....so this is not like most of the other Asian knockoffs. That is spelled monocoque btw....

    Drill down to the 29er and get a close look at the frame and geo chart. I have seen that geo chart somewhere before but can't remember where.

    http://www.oneghost.net/One_Ghost_In...ONIN_29ER.html
    How can companies like this get away with claiming that they build their own frames? Isn't that false advertising?

  143. #943
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    I don't think they claim to build their own frames. They design their own frames and have them made to their specs. Just because a frame has a name on it, doesn't mean that company makes it.

  144. #944
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    I don't think they claim to build their own frames. They design their own frames and have them made to their specs. Just because a frame has a name on it, doesn't mean that company makes it.
    Ok, maybe I'm wrong. But that's how most companies do it.

  145. #945
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    Maybe they imported a couple Asians to build frames.

  146. #946
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    These guys are doing the same thing.
    http://cgi.ebay.com/New-HIBS-Carbon-...item564514cb44

  147. #947
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    Quote Originally Posted by stonedead View Post
    These guys are doing the same thing.
    http://cgi.ebay.com/New-HIBS-Carbon-...item564514cb44
    Yuck.

  148. #948
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    That name and lettering is hideous!

  149. #949
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    But it's "The Panther" I like the Chinese letters and the little Oriental figure in the field on the head badge of the OneGhost.
    I am going to come out with my line of one-ons and of course The Possum 29er.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  150. #950
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    It's actually a pretty good idea if you think about it. Pick up some carbon frames from China, create your own company name, pay a few bucks for stickers to slap on, and then sell them on ebay as if you were doing all of the production work yourself - like a real bike company.

  151. #951
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    There's a local company in the DC area doing just that

    November cycling. They sell road frames for $975 a pop as well as carbon wheels. I think they have a local racing team.

    http://www.novemberbicycles.com/

  152. #952
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    Just got in from my first road ride on my Hong Fu frame. Thanks to all of the good info on this thread in assisting me with the build. It would have not been possible without it, I believe. This bike flies. I stayed on the grass and rough stuff as much as possible and it really soaks up the bumps. Feels better than my previous alum bike. It handles better, too. It may be new bike syndrome, but I really like it so far.

    A couple of bits of advice from my experience-the rear triangle only accepts a 160mm rotor and just barely at that. I'm going to ride it and not worry about it, though. Next, make sure to get the headset if you have a non tapered fork from Hong Fu. You will also need a Cane Creek Crown Race 110mm which I ordered directly from Cane Creek for around $20 shipped. The hanger might be a good idea, too. It takes a 31.6 seatpost also.

    I have some pretty good components and a set of Arch tubeless on it and so far, so good. Will hit some trails this weekend and follow up with a trail report later.

  153. #953
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    Quote Originally Posted by twang55 View Post
    Just got in from my first road ride on my Hong Fu frame. Thanks to all of the good info on this thread in assisting me with the build. It would have not been possible without it, I believe. This bike flies. I stayed on the grass and rough stuff as much as possible and it really soaks up the bumps. Feels better than my previous alum bike. It handles better, too. It may be new bike syndrome, but I really like it so far.

    A couple of bits of advice from my experience-the rear triangle only accepts a 160mm rotor and just barely at that. I'm going to ride it and not worry about it, though. Next, make sure to get the headset if you have a non tapered fork from Hong Fu. You will also need a Cane Creek Crown Race 110mm which I ordered directly from Cane Creek for around $20 shipped. The hanger might be a good idea, too. It takes a 31.6 seatpost also.

    I have some pretty good components and a set of Arch tubeless on it and so far, so good. Will hit some trails this weekend and follow up with a trail report later.
    Does Cane Creek make a whole headset for it?

  154. #954
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    Quote Originally Posted by nbwallace View Post
    November cycling. They sell road frames for $975 a pop as well as carbon wheels. I think they have a local racing team.

    http://www.novemberbicycles.com/
    I like how the pricing sounds as if it's some special deal they are offering their local riders. Looks like at least a 100% profit depending on where the frames came from. Maybe I'm just being cynical.

  155. #955
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    Very possible, but the HongFu headset was dirt cheap.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    Does Cane Creek make a whole headset for it?

  156. #956
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    Quote Originally Posted by twang55 View Post
    You will also need a Cane Creek Crown Race 110mm which I ordered directly from Cane Creek for around $20 shipped. .
    When you use a headset reducer like that, do you use the larger 1.5" bearing, or a standard 1.125" bearing? I'm struggling to visualize how the reducer works from pictures on the web.

  157. #957
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    Quote Originally Posted by qdawgg View Post
    I like how the pricing sounds as if it's some special deal they are offering their local riders. Looks like at least a 100% profit depending on where the frames came from. Maybe I'm just being cynical.
    qdawgg -

    Apart from the fact that there is no such thing as 100% profit, I can assure you that our margins are nowhere near 50% (which would be a 100% markup). The cost we pay on a per frame basis is higher than pretty much whatever I've seen on this thread. Our frames are made in Taiwan (generally, big difference between ROC and PRC in terms of experience, qc, and cost) by the company that we found to have the best quality. They are no one's idea of a cheap frame.

    More significant than the unit cost is the minimum number that we have to buy. I see people on this thread paying $500 per frame, with a $400 price for quantities of 10 or more. Our minimum orders are WAY bigger than that, and we'd have to order 1000s of frames to get anywhere near that kind of a price break (and I don't realistically think we'd ever see one that big - by the time we ordered enough frames to get that kind of break it would likely be worth our while to do our own contract production somewhere).

    The number of times we've gone to some site (even ones as significant as BikeRadar) and seen a bike that we didn't choose offered for sale or reviewed or whatever, where some song and dance is spun about how the brand that did no more than label it and sell it did some humongous engineering effort, it's just crazy. And in EVERY instance, these frames sell for significantly more than ours.

    Another thing you have to remember is that road bikes come with forks. Forks aren't free. Quite not free, in fact. Neither are shipping and duty or warehousing. And our bikes come with headsets, seatpost clamps, cable guides, all of that stuff (I've seen frames that were sold without derailleur hanger). Apart from the incredibly simple graphics we put on our frames and wheels, we literally strip every bit of cost that we can out of the process.

    The quality of our frames has been proven by the success that people have had racing them all year, by the fact that we have had zero warranty claims of any sort, by the fact that people have crashed the bejeesus out of their frames and none has had worse than a scratch, and by the fact that everyone who bought one is bugging us to do a tt bike, a 29er, a cross bike, etc.

    Our wheel customers have pretty well all been complete raving fans as well. Not 100% without issues (one customer had a carbon rim overheat - in a situation where using a carbon rim was ill advised at best but still we got him a new wheel no questions asked in VERY short order - and another had a wheel go slightly out of true after a few thousand miles), but close. I think if you canvassed each of our customers, they'd say that we're in the very top tier of companies they've dealt with in terms of support, product quality, responsiveness, etc. Inasmuch as we're going to be in the business, we want to be REALLY good at it.

    And yes, we make money. Not tons. Although the business has run at a profit, we have so far taken $0 out of it, instead we have put everything back in in hopes of growing the business and creating a more customer- and value-focused corner of the bike industry. If we were a public company (I've worked for one), our margins would cause the Board to shut down the division.

    The entirety of the question of Chinese and Taiwanese production and what makes a brand and who makes what and that whole ball of wax, including the long term viability of the bike industry as it now operates, is a huge conversation. We've had a lot of the conversation on our site, especially our blog, so you can read a bunch of our perspective there. The link has been posted in other posts so I won't spam you with it.

    It's funny, I read this thread a bit (I'm a decent to good sport racer, just got a 29er recently, so I read the XC and 29er threads but rarely post) and never ever thought we'd get mentioned in it.

    Best,
    Dave Kirkpatrick
    Co-Founder
    November Bicycles

  158. #958
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    No sleight intended towards November Bicycles

    Dave,

    I hope that my post wasn't misinterpreted. I admire what you guys do. In fact I saw someone on one of your frames a couple of months ago and asked him all sorts of questions. I've read your blog and appreciate your point of view.

    All the guys buying frames direct from china are facing a much bigger downside risk than if they purchased a frame from you guys. That risk is offset by a discount.

    It would be great if you guys sold a 29er frame.

    Noah

  159. #959
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    @robertwa

    This is how my Niner crown race reducer looks like. I paid $7.50 + $7 shipping. If I had known they were located in Torrance I would have tried and picked it up.




  160. #960
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    Great post Dave, very informative. Good luck with your business.

  161. #961
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    Noah - Not at all. I thought another post needed some clarification, not yours. Thanks.
    Ozynigma - Thank you.

    We very much want to do a 29er, but we aren't ready yet.

    Off to Fountainhead for a few laps.

  162. #962
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    Rubberhoe,
    Thanks for the pictures, that really helped!

  163. #963
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    Quote Originally Posted by robertwa View Post
    Rubberhoe,
    Thanks for the pictures, that really helped!
    And thanks for the seat post (brea mall) ... The frame is going to be built up on sunday.

  164. #964
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    Uploaded with ImageShack.us" width="549">

  165. #965
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    Uploaded with ImageShack.us" width="549">

  166. #966
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    Thanks Rubberhoe,

    Hope you don't mind the photos being doctored, but I wanted a better look at that adapter and then thought others may too.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Chinese Carbon 29er-1d3_6308_1.jpg  

    Chinese Carbon 29er-1d3_6306_1.jpg  

    Chinese Carbon 29er-1d3_6304_1.jpg  


  167. #967
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    Ltk023 isp

    Anyone checked out the ltk 023 isp from Alibaba ? think there would be cracking problems with the integrated seat mast?? Thaanks.

  168. #968
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkri View Post
    qdawgg -

    Apart from the fact that there is no such thing as 100% profit, I can assure you that our margins are nowhere near 50% (which would be a 100% markup). The cost we pay on a per frame basis is higher than pretty much whatever I've seen on this thread. Our frames are made in Taiwan (generally, big difference between ROC and PRC in terms of experience, qc, and cost) by the company that we found to have the best quality. They are no one's idea of a cheap frame.

    More significant than the unit cost is the minimum number that we have to buy. I see people on this thread paying $500 per frame, with a $400 price for quantities of 10 or more. Our minimum orders are WAY bigger than that, and we'd have to order 1000s of frames to get anywhere near that kind of a price break (and I don't realistically think we'd ever see one that big - by the time we ordered enough frames to get that kind of break it would likely be worth our while to do our own contract production somewhere).

    The number of times we've gone to some site (even ones as significant as BikeRadar) and seen a bike that we didn't choose offered for sale or reviewed or whatever, where some song and dance is spun about how the brand that did no more than label it and sell it did some humongous engineering effort, it's just crazy. And in EVERY instance, these frames sell for significantly more than ours.

    Another thing you have to remember is that road bikes come with forks. Forks aren't free. Quite not free, in fact. Neither are shipping and duty or warehousing. And our bikes come with headsets, seatpost clamps, cable guides, all of that stuff (I've seen frames that were sold without derailleur hanger). Apart from the incredibly simple graphics we put on our frames and wheels, we literally strip every bit of cost that we can out of the process.

    The quality of our frames has been proven by the success that people have had racing them all year, by the fact that we have had zero warranty claims of any sort, by the fact that people have crashed the bejeesus out of their frames and none has had worse than a scratch, and by the fact that everyone who bought one is bugging us to do a tt bike, a 29er, a cross bike, etc.

    Our wheel customers have pretty well all been complete raving fans as well. Not 100% without issues (one customer had a carbon rim overheat - in a situation where using a carbon rim was ill advised at best but still we got him a new wheel no questions asked in VERY short order - and another had a wheel go slightly out of true after a few thousand miles), but close. I think if you canvassed each of our customers, they'd say that we're in the very top tier of companies they've dealt with in terms of support, product quality, responsiveness, etc. Inasmuch as we're going to be in the business, we want to be REALLY good at it.

    And yes, we make money. Not tons. Although the business has run at a profit, we have so far taken $0 out of it, instead we have put everything back in in hopes of growing the business and creating a more customer- and value-focused corner of the bike industry. If we were a public company (I've worked for one), our margins would cause the Board to shut down the division.

    The entirety of the question of Chinese and Taiwanese production and what makes a brand and who makes what and that whole ball of wax, including the long term viability of the bike industry as it now operates, is a huge conversation. We've had a lot of the conversation on our site, especially our blog, so you can read a bunch of our perspective there. The link has been posted in other posts so I won't spam you with it.

    It's funny, I read this thread a bit (I'm a decent to good sport racer, just got a 29er recently, so I read the XC and 29er threads but rarely post) and never ever thought we'd get mentioned in it.

    Best,
    Dave Kirkpatrick
    Co-Founder
    November Bicycles
    Dave - even though it probably sounded like I was suggesting you guys were making a huge profit on your frames, I did admit that I was probably being cynical. Those forks are definitely not cheap and I was just considering the frame when I made the post. Regardless, wasn't trying to insult your reputation even though that's probably how it sounds and since I knew I was being cynical I probably shouldn't have posted at all.

  169. #969
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    qdawgg - All good, and thanks for the reply. I can't at all begrudge you your cynicism - there is a lot of BS and grist for becoming pretty well hopelessly jaded out there in the bike world. There's also a lot of good stuff, too.

  170. #970
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    OK so read through most of these posts, I am now stuck with a dilemma.

    My two choices are:

    1. GOTO MTB854 and full XT

    or

    2. LTK023 or DengFu 039 and SRAM X0


    The GOTO is my favourite but I am stuck between getting what I see as the better frame with the lesser (still good) bits or the cheaper frames with the better bits?

    Also any advice on good 29er XC shock?

    Any advice would be welcomed and appreciated....

    Cheers,
    Steve

  171. #971
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    I have to post 15 times before I can PM another fella. This is #14. So close.

  172. #972
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    Here is the price I received from Loice

    Loice asked me not to mention the price but I think its a bit to high !
    Last edited by mark59; 07-27-2011 at 09:43 AM.

  173. #973
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark59 View Post
    Dear Mark,
    Thanks for your quick reply.
    Yes, USD824, US dollars, and MTB854 the stocking are in UD finish.
    And this model take 2.4 tires and 160 rotors.
    Here I release you the proforma invoice, pls check is it ok?
    If yes, we can do shipping as soon as we get your payment.
    Best regards! www.gotobikes.com

    Loice

    I think I am going to sleep on it a couple of nights I think its a great deal !
    $824 for one of these frames? What the hell?

  174. #974
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    X2 that's just stupid expensive for one of these...

  175. #975
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    I've been watching prices on these frames since last September. First the 26ers then the 29ers. They have been steadily going up, weekly. Inflation is on the rise in China and Taiwan. In November I paid $300 shipped for a 26er, and now they are a lot more. But, $824 is still way to much. For that much you can buy from a company who buys their frames from China or Taiwan, puts their graphics on and offers a warranty. Not from the big companies, like Shrek, Giant Syndrome, Cannonbroke and Specialized Olympics, but there are some small companies out there buying and reselling them. For some people, it may make sence to go this route.

  176. #976
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    Quote Originally Posted by vianan View Post
    Thank you for your presentation
    No, thank you for your presentation

  177. #977
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    I am in the same boat thinking of going with the LTK 023 instead - is the MTB 854 really worth the extra $'s?

  178. #978
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    I suspect that price includes a fork, headset, hanger & delivery. If so, our would be quite sharp.

  179. #979
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    My LTK built up with sram x9 stans wheels and Ritchey WCS controls, Fox f29 fit fork 22.7 LBS

    I also 3m'ed the frame... top tube, seatstay, chainstay, and down tube

    frame pricing from L.T. BIKES

    FRAME, HEADSET,SEATCLAMP, AND SHIPPING 509.00 got it in about 10 days
    Last edited by James2532; 07-22-2011 at 11:49 AM.

  180. #980
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    I had my LTK 023 now for about 3 months raced in this past weekend in Eureka Spring Ark. took 5th cat 2 30-39 It ride great! I have owned some nice bikes (Orbea alma, Kona King Kahuna, ect..) and this frame in first class!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Chinese Carbon 29er-snc00244.jpg  

    Chinese Carbon 29er-snc00245.jpg  


  181. #981
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    ^-----Thats really nice.

  182. #982
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    James2532. If you dont mind me asking, what size LTK 023 is that?

  183. #983
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    tapered headtube?

    Quote Originally Posted by James2532 View Post
    I had my LTK 023 now for about 3 months raced in this past weekend in Eureka Spring Ark. took 5th cat 2 30-39 It ride great! I have owned some nice bikes (Orbea alma, Kona King Kahuna, ect..) and this frame in first class!
    Nice bike. Tapered headtube?
    Amolan

  184. #984
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    After riding the local loop I heard a creak come from my seat tube. I didn't think it was a big deal and thought I'd apply more fiber grip.

    Here's what happened: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFafyOAsr7U

    Anyone have any insight? I just emailed Jenny @ Hong Fu.

    I'm 200# and used a Woodman STi clamp, hand snugged.

  185. #985
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    ^^^ Is that part of the frame or a carbon insert that was bonded to the tube?
    Amolan

  186. #986
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    @ranier

    it seems that its the carbon insert thats bonded to the tube. its where the clamp goes.

  187. #987
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    James2532 - what are the cranks you are running?

    Is the finish gloss UD or 12K?

    I am so stuck between the LTK and MTB854 from GOTO - you are not helping posting that pic and ride info.....I was pretty settled on the GOTO.

    Cheers and well done on the racing!!!!
    Steve

  188. #988
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    Scary

  189. #989
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    I took photos of my broken seat tube sleeve. I'm waiting on Hong Fu's reply.

    Anyone know how much something like this costs to fix and where to go?



  190. #990
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    I'd epoxy it back into place, don't buy cheap epoxy.

    If that isn't a 27.2 then I'd also buy a 27.2 post + a Shim a nice metal shim and I'd epoxy the Shim into place aswell, to strengthen the area.

    Consider both plan B though, replacement frame would ofcourse be better, then I'd do the Shim + Epoxy + 27.2 thing to avoid it happening twice.

  191. #991
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    Ok the frame is an 18 and yes its a tapered headtube and the crankset is a s1400 39/26 and the frame is 3k finsh
    Last edited by James2532; 07-24-2011 at 06:24 PM.

  192. #992
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    I am friends with one of the guys behind this business: http://www.carbonframerepair.com/. I think they are doing good work. I also know Calfee Design does carbon fiber repair.

    Morgan

  193. #993
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    Quote Originally Posted by James2532 View Post
    I had my LTK 023 now for about 3 months raced in this past weekend in Eureka Spring Ark. took 5th cat 2 30-39 It ride great! I have owned some nice bikes (Orbea alma, Kona King Kahuna, ect..) and this frame in first class!
    Nice bike! But, what's with the "Scott" badge on the tube? lol...

  194. #994
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    Which of these frames has the most rear tire clearance? If I can't get one that will clear a 2.3 it would be a deal breaker.

  195. #995
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    Quote Originally Posted by paleh0rse View Post
    Nice bike! But, what's with the "Scott" badge on the tube? lol...
    I just like the decal look.. not trying to deceive anyone.. if thay ask I tell them its not a true Scott.. but the decals look cool "I think.." and its my bike so....

    also just my 2 cents...

    I owned a bike shop for 10 year selling Orbea,Kona,Moots,Titus,Jamis,KHS,... So thats just a litte back ground on me. The LTK0023 rides great.. tracks good and fills very lively on the trail for the money its a great buy.. so lets brake down the cost... heres the way I look at it!

    Dealer cost brake down on a name brand bike

    Lets say a Jamis carbon bike selling for 2100.00 " mountain or road "

    dealer cost for that bike is around 1300.00 for the full bike

    so the frame at "Jamis cost" is going to be at the 300 to 500 price point...

    my point is don't get to cought up on the price... 300 to 500 is about right... and the Jamis bike or frame will come in a box that has "Made in China stamped on the front!

  196. #996
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    Quote Originally Posted by James2532 View Post
    I just like the decal look.. not trying to deceive anyone.. if thay ask I tell them its not a true Scott.. but the decals look cool "I think.." and its my bike so....

    also just my 2 cents...

    I owned a bike shop for 10 year selling Orbea,Kona,Moots,Titus,Jamis,KHS,... So thats just a litte back ground on me. The LTK0023 rides great.. tracks good and fills very lively on the trail for the money its a great buy.. so lets brake down the cost... heres the way I look at it!

    Dealer cost brake down on a name brand bike

    Lets say a Jamis carbon bike selling for 2100.00 " mountain or road "

    dealer cost for that bike is around 1300.00 for the full bike

    so the frame at "Jamis cost" is going to be at the 300 to 500 price point...

    my point is don't get to cought up on the price... 300 to 500 is about right... and the Jamis bike or frame will come in a box that has "Made in China stamped on the front!
    I wasn't knocking the Scott badge, just thought it was funny... and it does look good!

    Is a 60+% markup normal for most dealers? wow!

    I'm seriously considering the same LTK023 frame. Any idea how many parts from my current Access XCL 9.7 29er would transfer directly to that frame?

    My current specs:
    --------------------------
    BOTTOM BRACKET: TruVativ Giga X Pipe XR (68mm BB shell)
    BRAKES: Avid Elixir 5 Hydraulic Disc w/ 185mm front, 160mm rear
    CASSETTE: SRAM PG-950, 11/34T, 9-speed
    CHAIN: KMC HG73 1/2" 11/128" 106L
    CRANKSET: TruVativ FireX 3.3 aluminum, 22/32/44T (I removed 22 and 44T rings)
    FORK: Rock Shox Tora SL (air) 100mm travel, manual lockout
    FRAME: 6061 Aluminum, 19"
    FRONT DERAILLEUR: none (removed)
    HANDLEBAR: MTB, butted aluminum, 710mm, 25mm rise
    HEADSET: Cane Creek Semi-integrated
    LEVERS: Avid Elixir 5 Hydraulic Disc
    REAR DERAILLEUR: SRAM X.9, short cage
    REAR SHOCK: N/A
    SEATPOST: eXotic carbon 31.8*350mm
    SHIFTERS: SRAM X.7 Trigger
    STEM: FSA CSI carbon 90mm +/-6deg
    TIRES: Schwalbe Albert HS 29 x 2.1"
    WHEELSET: Rims: Mavic TN 719 Disc, 29", 32H; Hubs: CNC alloy, disc, sealed, 32H (100/9mm front, 135/10mm rear)
    GRIPS: Velo Oury Lock-on Grips (Red)
    PEDALS: Wellgo MG-1 (Red), chromoly axle
    SADDLE: WTB Rocket V Pro
    OTHER: LizardSkinz Chainstay protector (red); BBG 32T Bashguard; N-Gear Jump-stop.

  197. #997
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    Fisher frames have always come from Asia, I believe, excepting the first Ritchey bikes per the movie Klunkerz.
    Just going through the thread now- maybe someone already pointed this out: Fisher/Trek used to make many bikes in their Waterloo factory- AL OCLV and Steel. Fisher at one point had AL, Steel and carbon bikes made in the USA.
    Only the lower end stuff was from overseas

  198. #998
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    Quote Originally Posted by paleh0rse View Post
    I wasn't knocking the Scott badge, just thought it was funny... and it does look good!

    Is a 60+% markup normal for most dealers? wow!

    I'm seriously considering the same LTK023 frame. Any idea how many parts from my current Access XCL 9.7 29er would transfer directly to that frame?

    My current specs:
    --------------------------
    BOTTOM BRACKET: TruVativ Giga X Pipe XR (68mm BB shell)
    BRAKES: Avid Elixir 5 Hydraulic Disc w/ 185mm front, 160mm rear
    CASSETTE: SRAM PG-950, 11/34T, 9-speed
    CHAIN: KMC HG73 1/2" 11/128" 106L
    CRANKSET: TruVativ FireX 3.3 aluminum, 22/32/44T (I removed 22 and 44T rings)
    FORK: Rock Shox Tora SL (air) 100mm travel, manual lockout
    FRAME: 6061 Aluminum, 19"
    FRONT DERAILLEUR: none (removed)
    HANDLEBAR: MTB, butted aluminum, 710mm, 25mm rise
    HEADSET: Cane Creek Semi-integrated
    LEVERS: Avid Elixir 5 Hydraulic Disc
    REAR DERAILLEUR: SRAM X.9, short cage
    REAR SHOCK: N/A
    SEATPOST: eXotic carbon 31.8*350mm
    SHIFTERS: SRAM X.7 Trigger
    STEM: FSA CSI carbon 90mm +/-6deg
    TIRES: Schwalbe Albert HS 29 x 2.1"
    WHEELSET: Rims: Mavic TN 719 Disc, 29", 32H; Hubs: CNC alloy, disc, sealed, 32H (100/9mm front, 135/10mm rear)
    GRIPS: Velo Oury Lock-on Grips (Red)
    PEDALS: Wellgo MG-1 (Red), chromoly axle
    SADDLE: WTB Rocket V Pro
    OTHER: LizardSkinz Chainstay protector (red); BBG 32T Bashguard; N-Gear Jump-stop.
    so most bikes are around 30-45% margin... i.e. 2100x.40 = 840.00 and thats before expenses of shipping and building the bike and marketing.. looking over your parts thay all look like thay would swing to the LTKO23

    a few things I did with my build
    1. I used plastic shifter cable ferrules were the cables go into the frame
    2. use some fiber grip on the inside of the seat tube
    3. your going to have to remove the levers from your brakes so go ahead and get some new hose barb & compression olive so you'll have them!
    4. Get some 3m leading edge tape and 2" and tape tt,ht,st,cs, before building it!

    so I have an 18" and the steer tube on my fork was about 7.5 inc and its plinty long..may want to check yours

    the bottom brackit is a 68mm.... my frame is a BSA BB sram gxp bb

    and I would use at list a 350mm seatpost 400mm would be best.. 31.8 di

  199. #999
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    Quote Originally Posted by James2532 View Post
    so most bikes are around 30-45% margin... i.e. 2100x.40 = 840.00 and thats before expenses of shipping and building the bike and marketing.. looking over your parts thay all look like thay would swing to the LTKO23

    a few things I did with my build
    1. I used plastic shifter cable ferrules were the cables go into the frame
    2. use some fiber grip on the inside of the seat tube
    3. your going to have to remove the levers from your brakes so go ahead and get some new hose barb & compression olive so you'll have them!
    4. Get some 3m leading edge tape and 2" and tape tt,ht,st,cs, before building it!

    so I have an 18" and the steer tube on my fork was about 7.5 inc and its plinty long..may want to check yours

    the bottom brackit is a 68mm.... my frame is a BSA BB sram gxp bb

    and I would use at list a 350mm seatpost 400mm would be best.. 31.8 di
    Thanks for the info!

    Any chance you could explain #3 a little bit? Why would I need to remove the levers, and what are the "hose barb and compression olive"? (Sorry, I'm new to wrenching/building...lol)

  200. #1000
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    the LTK 023 has internal cable routing for the braks and shifters so you'll have to remove the levers off your avid Avid Elixir 5 Hydraulic brakes... when you reinstall them you'll need them! just google the parts! "hose barb & compression olive for avid elixir"

    *you may want your LBS to this part of the build! thay should have the parts on hand

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