Catastrophic Failure DT Swiss 36 point Hub- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 116 of 116
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    746

    Catastrophic Failure DT Swiss 36 point Hub

    1,000 words: 29er Epic..11-34 cassette (not the stock 12 - 36)

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation: 7daysaweek's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    1,644
    Oops.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation: gambutrol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    37
    How did this happen?

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    746
    Just riding the bike... new hub, 36 point kit, and Stans Arch in Sept 2009. I ride about 90 miles per week all single track and weight 210 lbs. Hub cleaned and serviced on regular basis.

  5. #5
    dying hurts.
    Reputation: johnny the boy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    579
    ....just riding along......

  6. #6
    SS Pusher Man
    Reputation: mtnbikej's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    7,531
    It does happen from time to time.......have seen it happen with the stock 18 Point ring gears.
    Bicycles donít have motors or batteries.:nono:

    Ebikes are not bicycles :nono:

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bigdrunk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    2,306
    Luckily its only a $33 fix you can do yourself.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    746
    Quote Originally Posted by bigdrunk
    Luckily its only a $33 fix you can do yourself.
    I wish, it got the free hub body and the hub shell. All that metal (steel) ground up the aluminum... it's totaled.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bigdrunk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    2,306
    Bummer! I am close to trying my first 240s hubbed wheelset. Having been riding Kings exclusively for the past 11 years with ZERO issues I may need to rethink changing.

  10. #10
    getting back into it
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    107
    Which model hub? 240s? 340? 440? I'm in the process of building up some 240s based wheelsets ...

  11. #11
    SS Pusher Man
    Reputation: mtnbikej's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    7,531
    Quote Originally Posted by bigdrunk
    Bummer! I am close to trying my first 240s hubbed wheelset. Having been riding Kings exclusively for the past 11 years with ZERO issues I may need to rethink changing.


    I would not worry about it......I have a set of 240's that are going on 5 years w/ zero problems...serviced only once, late last year when I upgraded to 36 point rings.
    Bicycles donít have motors or batteries.:nono:

    Ebikes are not bicycles :nono:

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    74
    +1, I am 220lb and ride my 240s hard for the past 4 years and have had zero problems. I did the 36 point upgrade when it came out, and did a quick lube/service and haven't had a thought about them since. Great hubs, wouldn't think twice about recommending them or buying another set.

  13. #13
    rider
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    2,355
    Quote Originally Posted by flyag1
    Just riding the bike... new hub, 36 point kit, and Stans Arch in Sept 2009. I ride about 90 miles per week all single track and weight 210 lbs. Hub cleaned and serviced on regular basis.
    Wow, bad outcome!

    Did you use the factory lube when servicing the star ratchets? Are you going to send it in to DT? DT's CS is very good, you could end up with a new hub. Possibly even built into your rim.
    Abandoned the 26" wheel in May '03

  14. #14
    locked - time out
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    759
    Catastrophic!!!

    Omg!!!!!

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dRjOn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    2,586
    fwiw ill chime in. 3 sets of 36 ratchets on the go - some used more than others, but no problems here...and i err, dont take the best (q tip cleaning ocd style) care of them....and 200lb, on a singlespeed, all sorts of muck and crap conditions...

    but i suspect there is always going to be the risk of this sort of thing happening...thankfully it seems rare...

    ill be interested in DT's response?
    For a rock steady Gas Tank bag > the DeWidget

    bit.ly/BuyDeWidget

    https://www.instagram.com/drj0n_bagworks/

  16. #16
    fnar fnar brrraaaaap
    Reputation: ilostmypassword's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    2,160
    Quote Originally Posted by glitz
    Catastrophic!!!

    Omg!!!!!

    arghhhhhh!

  17. #17
    West Chester, PA
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,571
    Just curious... did your skewer break or come loose somehow when this happened ?

    DT should be good to ya. They've sent me small parts for free on 2 occasions. neither case was a warranty thing, just stupidity.

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    746
    Quote Originally Posted by 92gli
    Just curious... did your skewer break or come loose somehow when this happened ?
    Nothing came loose: For the last couple rides I could hear a pop every once in a while... So I knew something was wrong.. finally yesterday I was going downhill and the freewheel started to lockup and turn the chain while I was coasting. So I treated the bike like it was a fixie and limped back home. You see what I found. I going to call DT this morning and see what they can do.

    I used Slick Honey to lube the ring gears.... maybe that was a bad choice?

  19. #19
    Stayin' Puft
    Reputation: canyonrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,241
    Quote Originally Posted by flyag1
    Nothing came loose: For the last couple rides I could hear a pop every once in a while... So I knew something was wrong.. finally yesterday I was going downhill and the freewheel started to lockup and turn the chain while I was coasting. So I treated the bike like it was a fixie and limped back home. You see what I found. I going to call DT this morning and see what they can do.

    I used Slick Honey to lube the ring gears.... maybe that was a bad choice?
    Yikes. I guess I will invest in the "special grease" just to be sure. I hope DT covers it for you.
    http://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...4&category=205

    I have two sets of the 36t ratchets on different wheelsets in service also, I'm just shy of 200lbs and use them both for SS. No issue yet...

  20. #20
    West Chester, PA
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,571
    That just doesn't look like anything that had to do with lube. Looks like they just couldn't handle the torque. Maybe the metal wasn't heat treated right. Steel shouldn't chip like that.

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation: gjenkins@'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1,600
    Was it loose and not engaging all the way ... or maybe a chunk of something was in there?

  22. #22
    Delirious Tuck
    Reputation: thefriar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    2,434
    I'm close to 250 geared up and have been abusing my 240s with the 36 upgrade about the same amount of time, no issues to date including drops, step ups, and trialsy riding...

    Edit... running stan's 29er flows with an xtr 11-34

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    746
    Just talked to Dave @ DT... they are sending me a new free hub body and a set of 18t rings. Per DT this is not the first of the 36t issues... hence they don't ship new 240s with 36t. Metal is thinner and not as strong as the 18t... so for customers that have failures with the 36t rings they suggest you go back to 18t.

    Well I came off Hadley's, but wanted something lighter... and if it was not for the 36t ring set I would not have purchased DT 240s... now they tell me I must go back to 18... NO WAY!

    Expect to see this hub on eBay...

  24. #24
    rider
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    2,355
    Quote Originally Posted by flyag1
    Nothing came loose: For the last couple rides I could hear a pop every once in a while... So I knew something was wrong.. finally yesterday I was going downhill and the freewheel started to lockup and turn the chain while I was coasting. So I treated the bike like it was a fixie and limped back home. You see what I found. I going to call DT this morning and see what they can do.

    I used Slick Honey to lube the ring gears.... maybe that was a bad choice?
    OK, since I have recently gone thru something similar: I just spoke with DT tech yesterday and they don't really strongly suggest the factory lube, just say that a synthetic grease is required. Told the tech that I was using Pedro's synth & he said that should be fine. I checked the MSDS at the Slick honey site and it is a petro grease, not synth. See the MSDS here: http://www.slickhoneyusa.com/msds_slickhoney.pdf

    I just had a star ratchet failure that I fully believe is my fault. I knew that my star ratchets noise had had gone to sharp from the well lubed soft noise mode. I also knew that I had been running the same set of ratchets for several years (>10k miles) and that they should be changed as preventative maintenance. Then I got a couple of slight glitches, over the course of several rides, in the ratcheting action and still took no action. Then my ratchet stopped working a couple of times in a ride. Things were getting bad, chunks were circulating in the ratchet mechanism. Guess that I was lucky that my hub was not trashed. My star ratchets had only one tooth missing, not anything like your failure.

    I'm about 220#, ride a bike that is at least 33# & tend to carry a heavy pack. I also have been running some of the lowest gearing around on a 29er for a few years now & 180mm cranks. For a long time my lowest gear was 18t front and 34t rear, that is about 15.35 gear inches. Recently I have gone to the 12-36 cassette and switched to a 19t front cog. The new low gear is 15.3 gear inches. Considering the above very tough conditions, and not lubing or changing the star ratchets often enough, I'm surprised that I went as long as I did w/o a problem. But I did use synth grease. So, given all of the above, I'm going to say that the probability is high that your early failure was caused by using the wrong lube. It might even be safe to say that if you had not done any re-greasing you would have been fine, at least to this point, as I went about two years before re-greasing the ratchets at first.

    Also remember that mixing grease chemistry by switching to a different grease w/o removing every trace of the old lube can cause swift failure of the new grease...

    In the immortal word of Sheldon Brown: Enough?
    Last edited by 29erchico; 03-23-2010 at 09:52 AM.
    Abandoned the 26" wheel in May '03

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation: brewdog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    594
    I'm suprised you are even alive to tell us about that catastrophic failure.

    glad you're ok.

    that's the most beautiful thing I've ever seen here.

    stunning.

    what color seat should I get?

    help me pick my nose.

    tell me about your homebrew sealent mix.

    do these wheels make my handlebar look funny?

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    137
    Quote Originally Posted by 29erchico
    Told the tech that I was using Pedro's synth & he said that should be fine.
    Are you using the synthetic "liquid" lube or the BIO grease in the tube?

    Thanks,
    JP

  27. #27
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    7,930
    There are two types of hubs /setups I have that remain un phased by any sort of failure while riding. My Hugi Freeride hub with 18 points of engagement and my Hadley hub from 2004 with 3 pawls and 36 points on engagement. I go about 240#s wet, both have stood the test of time for me. Just saying what has worked for me, YMMV.

  28. #28
    rider
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    2,355
    Quote Originally Posted by JeremyFXDWG
    Are you using the synthetic "liquid" lube or the BIO grease in the tube?

    Thanks,
    JP
    The Bio synth grease as seen here: http://www.cswestbikes.com/servlet/t...-Grease/Detail
    Abandoned the 26" wheel in May '03

  29. #29
    mnt bike laws of physics
    Reputation: yogiprophet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    2,645
    Quote Originally Posted by flyag1
    Just talked to Dave @ DT... they are sending me a new free hub body and a set of 18t rings. Per DT this is not the first of the 36t issues... hence they don't ship new 240s with 36t. Metal is thinner and not as strong as the 18t... so for customers that have failures with the 36t rings they suggest you go back to 18t.

    Well I came off Hadley's, but wanted something lighter... and if it was not for the 36t ring set I would not have purchased DT 240s... now they tell me I must go back to 18... NO WAY!

    Expect to see this hub on eBay...
    That would be my response exactly. Fuc 18 POE!!!
    It sounds like a manufacturing problem to me. 36 teeth should hold as good as 18 if they are indeed all matched together. Am wondering now if I haven't made the wrong choice trying a DT Swiss hub.
    Isn't Chris King's ring drive a similar design - meaning that two rings engage together - except the DT Swiss' is only 18 or 32 instead of CK's 72? Does CK have a problem with their teeth breaking like that?

  30. #30
    rider
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    2,355
    Quote Originally Posted by yogiprophet
    36 teeth should hold as good as 18 if they are indeed all matched together.
    I agree with your thinking here. i also have to wonder if the 36t is not much less tolerant to any contaminant particles between the opposing teeth as the depth of the tooth profile has to be way less than the 18t star ratchets. Frequent re-greasing could increase the chances of introducing contaminants if great care was not used every time to keep the process really clean.
    Abandoned the 26" wheel in May '03

  31. #31
    BWG
    BWG is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: BWG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    498
    No offense intended really, but i think something like this is closer to catastrophic.


  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    746
    Quote Originally Posted by BWG
    No offense intended really, but i think something like this is closer to catastrophic.]
    No offense taken: my GPS tracks shows 30 MPH on the downhill when the hub decided to stop freewheeling. If I hadn't felt the chain pushing against my cranks things could have gone really bad...

    I can just see the rear wheel locking up after the derailleur is ripped from the frame and shoved into the spokes... unexpected on a downhill run!

  33. #33
    getting back into it
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    107
    I guess I'll keep my 240s wheelsets stock with 18t and use synthetic grease. I'm just in it for some exercise, nothing fancy. I do enjoy wrenching on my bike tho ...

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dRjOn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    2,586
    flyag - cant help but think you might be being a tad fearful of results....freewheel engagement systems have always/will always mess up at some point in some conditions...i doubt the odds of having a major accident from it are high....chill baby! its not like the fork snapped etc... at least with the dt is very very easy to remedy if there is a problem!

    also bear in mind, reports of DT failures are very thin on the ground not to compare to king hadley etc, but it is still an excellent, well made, extremely durable system...
    For a rock steady Gas Tank bag > the DeWidget

    bit.ly/BuyDeWidget

    https://www.instagram.com/drj0n_bagworks/

  35. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    6
    I have ridden all different hubs, and I really have to tell you that issues with DT Hubs are very few in comparison. People get way too hung up on just HOW many points of the engagment and not the actual engagement itself. A DT hub engages much faster in stock form than many other hubs on the market, couple that with the ease of keep a DT hub on the trail over the years. Had that been any other hub on the market you would likely need a new one, but being a DT, some new ratchets and a cassette body (which you probably didn't really need, but sounds like DT took care of you anyway) and your all good.

    Now should you decide to ebay this DT as you said, and go with a Hadley or other, enjoy the extra service and the additional tools you need to do so. Let me know how much you want for that DT even with the "sloppy" 18t!!!!!!!

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation: 4slomo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    1,616
    I can't get this post out of my mind, so I guess I'm going to have to respond:

    The DT-S manual for the 240s hub says,

    "Important
    Before every use, check the function of your rear wheel hub. Make sure that the free-wheel and engagement connection function impeccably. Should there be any mal-function, the rear wheel hub must not be used. In such a case, the problem must be repaired before use. If you are not in a position to repair the hub, contact your dealer, service center or consult the DT Swiss website www.dtswiss.com."

    So the OP knew there was a problem and chose to ignore it.

    "There will be no Warranty service for the following:
     Normal wear and tear of parts subject to wear
     Incorrect wheel assembly
     Alteration of product or use of product in combination with other products that do not fit
     Incorrect maintenance or repair
    Incorrect use, abuse, misuse, neglect, carelessness, commercial use or use in cycling competitions..."

    "Carefully clean the star ratchets with a dry cloth. Inspect both star ratchets for damage. If any damage is visible, the parts must be replaced using original DT Swiss components. LIGHTLY grease both star ratchets."

    "Never use normal grease in the freewheel mechanism, because this will impair the function of the star ratchet teeth. Only use DT Swiss recommended special grease for this procedure !"

    Quote Originally Posted by flyag1
    Nothing came loose: For the last couple rides I could hear a pop every once in a while... So I knew something was wrong.. finally yesterday I was going downhill and the freewheel started to lockup and turn the chain while I was coasting. So I treated the bike like it was a fixie and limped back home. You see what I found. I going to call DT this morning and see what they can do.

    I used Slick Honey to lube the ring gears.... maybe that was a bad choice?
    Hey everybody, ride my wheels! They ride good, real good.
    I'm a wheel builder. SRLPE Wheel Works. Send me a PM.

  37. #37
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    746
    Quote Originally Posted by 4slomo
    I can't get this post out of my mind, so I guess I'm going to have to respond:

    The DT-S manual for the 240s hub says,

    "Never use normal grease in the freewheel mechanism, because this will impair the function of the star ratchet teeth. Only use DT Swiss recommended special grease for this procedure !"
    4slomo you are 100% right... However lets dig a little deeper and use Mercedes-Benz warranty booklet as an example. "Use of service parts or fluids, such as paper oil filters or improper engine oil, which are non-approved by MBUSA, will cause engine damage not covered by the warranty." With that said, guess what.... only Mobil 1 synthetic is approved in some engines and the reason why is that Mobil supplied MB with engineers to help design their engines. As payback MB will only warranty the engine if the owner runs "Exxon" products even tho most would agree there are better products available.

    No lets have a look at Specialized E150 fork... it has a 5 yr warranty if the owner sends the fork back to an approved service center every 150 hrs of ride time or every 1 year (whichever comes first). If you don't follow the rules then you don't have a warranty.

    And you're 100%o right DT does not have warranty my hub... because I did not follow their recommendations... Buts that's not the case... DT knows the 36t ring set is not holding up to their 18t standards and they are admitting so when they warranted my hub. Never did they ask what grease I used as it's makes little difference.

  38. #38
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Johnny Chicken Bones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    1,664
    Quote Originally Posted by brewdog
    I'm suprised you are even alive to tell us about that catastrophic failure.

    glad you're ok.

    that's the most beautiful thing I've ever seen here.

    stunning.

    what color seat should I get?

    help me pick my nose.

    tell me about your homebrew sealent mix.

    do these wheels make my handlebar look funny?
    You sir, make MTBR worth reading.
    Seat color: Clear or plaid.
    Your nose should pick itself.
    My homebrew is made from broken dreams and unmet goals.
    No, your face makes those bars look funny.
    --------- __o
    ------- _`\<,_
    ------ (*)/ (*)
    ******************
    Running is for prey.

  39. #39
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    746
    Oh and Hadley uses oil... not grease.
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=603149

  40. #40
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dRjOn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    2,586
    i use phil oil in all my dt hubs....for so many years ive forgotten. works a treat.
    For a rock steady Gas Tank bag > the DeWidget

    bit.ly/BuyDeWidget

    https://www.instagram.com/drj0n_bagworks/

  41. #41
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    281
    I think that what 4slomo was getting at was the fact that you knowingly kept riding when the hub was making an unnatural noise. This bugs me too. Does it matter what i think, No it sure does not.


    I hear similar things all the time in my line of work.
    Customer- "My xxxxxxx just stopped working, I want a new one"
    Me- "Did you follow the instructions?"
    Customer- "Well, no, but it should have worked anyway."
    Me-


    The fact is, maybe take care of your stuff, or maybe you're deserving of a more catastrophic failure.

  42. #42
    mtbr member
    Reputation: 4slomo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    1,616
    Yes BKruahnndon, you certainly understand, sir.

    I call it responsibility. I purchase, use and maintain something in the manner it was intended, and have an expectation that it will perform as designed. If it doesn't, the manufacturer has a responsibility to honor their warranty within their offered warranty terms, that is a part of what I've purchased.

    If I choose to act irresponsibly, abuse something, and then go back to the manufacturer "to see what they can do for me" I'm probably continuing to act irresponsibly.

    If I choose to use/abuse something until it breaks or even wears out prematurely, I can act responsibly by purchasing a replacement with my own money.

    DT-S is dealing with a new product, their 36 point star drive rachets upgrade, and finding in use there may be some problems. I'm sure they went through a testing period before putting the rachet upgrade on the market. DT-S is acting responsibly by honoring their warranty on their new parts, and even proactively in also taking in abused parts to study and make their product design even better.


    Quote Originally Posted by BKruahnndon
    I think that what 4slomo was getting at was the fact that you knowingly kept riding when the hub was making an unnatural noise. This bugs me too. Does it matter what i think, No it sure does not.


    I hear similar things all the time in my line of work.
    Customer- "My xxxxxxx just stopped working, I want a new one"
    Me- "Did you follow the instructions?"
    Customer- "Well, no, but it should have worked anyway."
    Me-


    The fact is, maybe take care of your stuff, or maybe you're deserving of a more catastrophic failure.
    Hey everybody, ride my wheels! They ride good, real good.
    I'm a wheel builder. SRLPE Wheel Works. Send me a PM.

  43. #43
    mtbr member
    Reputation: brewdog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    594
    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Chicken Bones
    No, your face makes those bars look funny.
    Why are you being so mean to me? I ride a 29er which is nothing like any other form of bicycle. They are so very confusing when it comes to everything non-29er specific such as color, comfort and personal preferances. How would you like it if someone shook up your Etch-A-Sketch and you had to start all over, but with the blue one instead of your old red one?

    butyl or latex?

  44. #44
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    338
    Quote Originally Posted by 4slomo
    I can't get this post out of my mind, so I guess I'm going to have to respond:

    The DT-S manual for the 240s hub says,

    "Important
    Before every use, check the function of your rear wheel hub. Make sure that the free-wheel and engagement connection function impeccably. Should there be any mal-function, the rear wheel hub must not be used. In such a case, the problem must be repaired before use. If you are not in a position to repair the hub, contact your dealer, service center or consult the DT Swiss website www.dtswiss.com."

    So the OP knew there was a problem and chose to ignore it.

    Seriously dude... It's a freaking hub, not a Mercedes Benz. Just because you have engineer-like anal retentiveness, doesn't mean everyone else should. If you're running a $350+ hub, it's reasonable to expect it to work for a long period of time without issue. If the thing was already making noises, it was already broken and would have needed the new parts anyway. Riding it certainly made the issue worse, but when it's all said and done, no big deal.

    Let's see... Should I spend 2 hours checking my bike for every 2 hours of ride time? Hell NO - it's not a helicopter. If we took the time to follow every single maintenance step of every single component of our bikes, those of us with full time jobs would probably not have any time left to ride.

    Of course a checkup every now and again is essential, but just ride the damn things, and when something breaks beyond the point of rideability/repair, then get it fixed.

    All that being said, I've got the 240s with the 36 upgrade and have beat the crap out of them for years. So far, no issues.

  45. #45
    locked - time out
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    759
    Mercedes isn't exactly reliable anymore and a benchmark to use as a comparison for hubs. Typically, which will be backed up by thousands of owners on their forums documenting troubles, a Mercedes is more equivalent to those defective Shimano hubs of recent times.

  46. #46
    mtbr member
    Reputation: 7daysaweek's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    1,644
    Umm... are you guys serious that are saying you're reconsidering your hub choice because ONE person had problems? Let me know what parts you ARE using that you've never seen anyone break before.

    Also, I've been on a set of 240s for about 2 years with no issues so far... they've been serviced once (to install the new 36 step ratchet rings which I've also had no problems with).

    Lets all grow up and realize that sometimes things just go wrong.... and if you ever hear bad noises from your hub, don't ride it. Seems pretty simple to me.

  47. #47
    Sweater
    Reputation: Buzzaro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,930
    Just a question about the installation of the new star ratchets.
    Which way did you install the springs? The new ratchets have a larger ID and the springs wont engage them fully if installed with the small side toward the ratchets as on the 18pt. This would cause very light engagement pressure (if enough at all) on the new 36pt and making them likely to slip and chip like that.
    All out of S**** and down to my last F***

  48. #48
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Soupboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,040
    OP - Bummer.

    My fat ass is still SSing my 440 w 36toof bits. No issues. If it perishes I'm getting me a Phil Wood with ENO trials freewheel.
    Professional Amateur

  49. #49
    mtbr member
    Reputation: magnetosphere's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    139
    Was the little black metal sleeve that acts as a guide/spacer for the star ratchets installed onto the axle?

    If that was not installed that could allow the ratchets to contact each other at different angles instead of perfectly squares to each other. This angular contact could explain the "pop you heard every once in a while". This over time could have chipped away the corners of the engagement teeth then seizing up your hub.
    Quote Originally Posted by OneBadWagon
    Since about half of the posts on here are about intangibles or hypotheticals, let's hear it!

  50. #50
    Sweater
    Reputation: Buzzaro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,930
    Quote Originally Posted by magnetosphere
    Was the little black metal sleeve that acts as a guide/spacer for the star ratchets installed onto the axle?

    If that was not installed that could allow the ratchets to contact each other at different angles instead of perfectly squares to each other. This angular contact could explain the "pop you heard every once in a while". This over time could have chipped away the corners of the engagement teeth then seizing up your hub.
    The new star ratchets have a larger inside diameter and dont contact that sleeve even when installed properly. They slide with the outer rings like a yoke and thats keeps it all aligned.
    All out of S**** and down to my last F***

  51. #51
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    246
    Glad I found this. I took the advice of a lbs and opened up my lightly ridden hubs (singlespeed and geared bike) because they were a little on the noisy side. I lubed them up with Slick Honey. The single speed slipped a couple of times but not really bad. I thought it was a mechanical error since it's the first time I've opened up a hub. Well I took the geared bike out this morning and it was slipping like crazy. Totally unrideable.

    I ordered new ratchets and the DT grease. I didn't even look at the freehub body for damage. Hopefully the new ratchets and grease do the trick.

  52. #52
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    211
    Quote Originally Posted by flyag1
    1,000 words: 29er Epic..11-34 cassette (not the stock 12 - 36)
    4 words:

    Catastrophic:


    Not:



    You're fired.

  53. #53
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    29

    installation of new ratchet Which Grease???

    So is Dt saying that there normal dt grease is what is needed for the 36 ratchet upgrade? I just had a wheelset built with the new ratchet installed. They used the Dt grease. Or do I need synthetic Grease?? Thanks


    I emailed DT last week and never got a response.

  54. #54
    rider
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    2,355
    Quote Originally Posted by noonan1970
    So is Dt saying that there normal dt grease is what is needed for the 36 ratchet upgrade? I just had a wheelset built with the new ratchet installed. They used the Dt grease. Or do I need synthetic Grease?? Thanks


    I emailed DT last week and never got a response.
    In my previous post in this thread (#24) I go into this in detail. Yes the DT star ratchet grease is full synth.
    Abandoned the 26" wheel in May '03

  55. #55
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    715
    I just went to my LBS to buy the 36t and they told me that DT Swiss has recalled them because the ratchets were too close together or something. I don't have confirmation of this otherwise, but my LBS is pretty good about this stuff.

  56. #56
    Plays with tools
    Reputation: customfab's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    4,606
    I wonder if they are having any issues with the 18 point star ratchets in the 190 hubs? They are hollowed out like the aftermarket 36T ones are.

    and yes all of you people are making way to big a deal of how many points of engagement your damn free hub has.

  57. #57
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    746
    The 36t is still showing on DT's website: http://www.dtswiss.com/Products/Acce...chet-hubs.aspx

    customfab, I doubt you will have any issues with the 18t in the 190 hub...

  58. #58
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    246
    Quote Originally Posted by LowLow
    I just went to my LBS to buy the 36t and they told me that DT Swiss has recalled them because the ratchets were too close together or something. I don't have confirmation of this otherwise, but my LBS is pretty good about this stuff.
    I was told something similar from my LBS about a "do not sell" on these because supposedly people aren't cleaning and maintaining them well enough and as a result the failure rate has been high. I didn't have any problem finding them however.

  59. #59
    gone for a bike ride
    Reputation: culturesponge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    1,973
    not had any problems with the standard 18 step hollow star ratched on 190 hubs, but now have 36 stars installed

    a few days ago while charging off a red light (zipping past a gaggle of roadies struggling to clip-in) on the short tarmac home after a training ride, i felt heard the rear hub slip slightly under full stomp - never had any DT hub problems before

    afterwards, when i took apart the freewheel a few (approx 6) of the 36 step faces looked slightly marred but evenly accross the entire tooth edge, i Q-tipped the hubs innards then re-greased with regulation issue DT hub grease

    stronger springs needed?
    Last edited by culturesponge; 06-13-2010 at 01:58 AM.

  60. #60
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    6,964
    Hadley went through this same thing several years ago when they upped the POE count on their hubs. I can't remember the actual number (108?) but they went back to their tried and true 72 (again, I think) which is plenty adequate. I was thinking about DT for some new wheels soon, but I'll stick with my 7 and 9 year old Kings, I guess.
    Whining is not a strategy.

  61. #61
    Plays with tools
    Reputation: customfab's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    4,606
    Quote Originally Posted by flyag1
    The 36t is still showing on DT's website: http://www.dtswiss.com/Products/Acce...chet-hubs.aspx

    customfab, I doubt you will have any issues with the 18t in the 190 hub...
    Unfortunately I am not fortunate enough to have a set of 190's. I doubt I will ever have an issue with the 36 tooth ratchets in my 240s either.

  62. #62
    mtbr member
    Reputation: magnetosphere's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    139
    I dunno how long ago you guys checked with your shops.

    I do know that QBP was sold out of the ratchets for about 3 months and they just recently (2 weeks ago) got them back in stock.

    I highly doubt that DT would ship out a batch of (knowingly) faulty parts to one of their biggest wholesalers.
    Quote Originally Posted by OneBadWagon
    Since about half of the posts on here are about intangibles or hypotheticals, let's hear it!

  63. #63
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Ottoreni's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,096
    Quote Originally Posted by magnetosphere
    I dunno how long ago you guys checked with your shops.

    I do know that QBP was sold out of the ratchets for about 3 months and they just recently (2 weeks ago) got them back in stock.

    I highly doubt that DT would ship out a batch of (knowingly) faulty parts to one of their biggest wholesalers.
    My LBS ordered these for me about 2 months ago. They came in about two weeks ago and were installed. Here is the tale my LBS owner told me.

    He was told by his supplier that the original batch was defective and that was why there were none in stock. One thing I did notice about my ratchets, they do not seem as hollowed out as the ones originally pictured in the other thread that originally mentioned these.
    You cannot go against nature, because when you do, its part of nature too.

  64. #64
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Johnny Chicken Bones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    1,664
    Add me to the folks w/ 36t chips.
    Pulled the geared hub apart (240, used the 36t since about March) small chips on many teeth. I too had heard a pop from time to time.
    Pulled the SS apart, same chips.

    Emailed DT, new 36t ratchets in hand 3 days later.

    But- I won't be using the 36t. While waiting for the replacement ratchets- I went back to 18t. They still feel like the great hubs I've known for years. I happily stopped riding King hubs after getting tired of maintaining them too often (and the sound, and the drag). After this tiny hurdle, 240s are still un-beat in my book.

    If I can't get up some tech move- I need to look more closely at something other than hub engagement. I'll blame my lack of taller riding socks, or lack of argyle, or unshaved taint (reprinted without permission from Dave Ochs) instead.

    Anyone want to buy a pair or 2 of the 36t ratchets? Brand new?
    --------- __o
    ------- _`\<,_
    ------ (*)/ (*)
    ******************
    Running is for prey.

  65. #65
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    103
    Johnny, what DT email did you use? I have emailed a couple times about the issue with no reply. May have to give them a call...




    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Chicken Bones
    Add me to the folks w/ 36t chips.
    Pulled the geared hub apart (240, used the 36t since about March) small chips on many teeth. I too had heard a pop from time to time.
    Pulled the SS apart, same chips.

    Emailed DT, new 36t ratchets in hand 3 days later.

    But- I won't be using the 36t. While waiting for the replacement ratchets- I went back to 18t. They still feel like the great hubs I've known for years. I happily stopped riding King hubs after getting tired of maintaining them too often (and the sound, and the drag). After this tiny hurdle, 240s are still un-beat in my book.

    If I can't get up some tech move- I need to look more closely at something other than hub engagement. I'll blame my lack of taller riding socks, or lack of argyle, or unshaved taint (reprinted without permission from Dave Ochs) instead.

    Anyone want to buy a pair or 2 of the 36t ratchets? Brand new?

  66. #66
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Johnny Chicken Bones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    1,664
    I contacted Dave at [email protected]

    I read somewhere in this thread that there were different variants of the 36t ratchet.
    As far as I can tell- the version I bought from QBP in January is identical to the replacements sent to me.
    Inner/outer diameter and relief zones inside.

    Unless someone can tell me that there is truly a difference in the new version, I'm not using them. Fear of the legendary "catastrophic" failure and my desire to ride more than work on a bike will keep me off.
    --------- __o
    ------- _`\<,_
    ------ (*)/ (*)
    ******************
    Running is for prey.

  67. #67
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    38
    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Chicken Bones
    Anyone want to buy a pair or 2 of the 36t ratchets? Brand new?
    Just emailed you, interested in 1, maybe both pairs . . . Just bought some DT Swiss XR 1450's, not sure if they already have the 36T, but I know my Bontrager Race X Lite's are 18T right now.

  68. #68
    Come see me after class
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    1,431
    lol @ $300 hub failures

  69. #69
    West Chester, PA
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,571
    dammit... my 36 pt. ratchets are chipping too. Not as bad as the OP's pic though. I got mine last december from universal.

  70. #70
    mtbr member
    Reputation: 1-bar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    1,504
    Quote Originally Posted by 92gli
    dammit... my 36 pt. ratchets are chipping too. Not as bad as the OP's pic though. I got mine last december from universal.
    When is the last time you serviced them and what type of grease did you use? I think the viscosity of the grease may have something to do with it and if it is applied to thick, I could see the teeth having problems making full contact. I've been using Phil Wood water proof grease and my teeth still look brand new.
    Got LEFTY?
    -2017 Cídale Scalpel Carbon 3
    -2016 Cídale Slate Force 1
    -2014 Cídale Bad Boy 1

  71. #71
    mtbr member
    Reputation: magnetosphere's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    139
    Quote Originally Posted by alexrex20
    lol @ $300 hub failures
    LOL @ you for being a non contributing loser in one of the only threads on this forum that has actual tech in it.

    You should go back to your wrong size seat post for your frame thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by OneBadWagon
    Since about half of the posts on here are about intangibles or hypotheticals, let's hear it!

  72. #72
    West Chester, PA
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,571
    Quote Originally Posted by 1-bar
    When is the last time you serviced them and what type of grease did you use? I think the viscosity of the grease may have something to do with it and if it is applied to thick, I could see the teeth having problems making full contact. I've been using Phil Wood water proof grease and my teeth still look brand new.
    This hub has only had dt grease in it. It was new in december and friday was the first time I serviced it.

    I have an older 240 that I have been using my own concoction in for 4 years. Phil grease loosened up with a few drops of finish line syn. chain lube. That hub still has 18 pt. ratchets.

  73. #73
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    921
    Most bike greases are too sticky and too viscous.

    Try auto greases.

  74. #74
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dRjOn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    2,586
    fwiw: ive just spent a rainy sunday morning doing a bit of maintenance. as part of this i looked at my 3 hubs running 36pt ratchets, including 1 set that came to me for a magazine test (http://www.singletrackworld.com/) which were a pre-available set.

    All have been used a lot in varying conditions from wet and gritty to dry and dusty. ive used the DT Swiss Molykote TP 42 grease and phil wood tenacious oil. all are in great condition. no signs of chipped or damaged teeth. some normal shiny spots from use - same as the 18 tooth ones i have used.

    dunno. i suppose some things can fail in certain conditions, but you so seldom hear of dt stuff being an issue i was curious....so far im happy that they are just as durable as they need to be.
    For a rock steady Gas Tank bag > the DeWidget

    bit.ly/BuyDeWidget

    https://www.instagram.com/drj0n_bagworks/

  75. #75
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    1,103
    Quote Originally Posted by yogiprophet
    That would be my response exactly. Fuc 18 POE!!!
    It sounds like a manufacturing problem to me. 36 teeth should hold as good as 18 if they are indeed all matched together. Am wondering now if I haven't made the wrong choice trying a DT Swiss hub.
    Isn't Chris King's ring drive a similar design - meaning that two rings engage together - except the DT Swiss' is only 18 or 32 instead of CK's 72? Does CK have a problem with their teeth breaking like that?

    Kings have their problems too. I have a couple sets of kings and a set of 240's with the upgrade. So far, I dont have any issues with the 240s, but I;ve only had them since the beginning of this season. I've needed to rebuild the kings a lot to keep them running properly. Twice now, I've gone too long without service and the hub stopped engaging reliably. King recommends that you fully service your hubs on a quarterly basis. This service costs about $100. I'll tell you what... it really pisses me off that one of the most expensive hubs on the market requires $3-400 worth of service each year. When I buy a high end part, I just want it to work. I don't really want to have to worry about it failing. or if my service interval is in spec. I suppose I just have to pay to play. Ugh.

  76. #76
    Underskilled
    Reputation: CaveGiant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    4,263
    Quote Originally Posted by bigdrunk
    Bummer! I am close to trying my first 240s hubbed wheelset. Having been riding Kings exclusively for the past 11 years with ZERO issues I may need to rethink changing.
    I am a clyde who torques hard, I have blown every hub I had without trying.
    There was one exception in the list, Chris King,

    I kept on popping it open to check for wear, mud penetration anything, was perfect from day 1 to the day it got stolen.


    Can't recommend enough.
    Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?

  77. #77
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    746
    Quote Originally Posted by CaveGiant
    I am a clyde who torques hard, I have blown every hub I had without trying.
    There was one exception in the list, Chris King,

    I kept on popping it open to check for wear, mud penetration anything, was perfect from day 1 to the day it got stolen.


    Can't recommend enough.
    Nothing but great reviews on CK.... never owned one but would put CK on top of the list per reviews.
    I do have 2 Hadley's and I can say they are top notch... nothing but ride...ride...ride... and did i mention engagement the excellent! When it comes to quality the hand goes to Hadley from my experience... when it comes to weight it goes to DT. Each of us must pick our own poison.....

  78. #78
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    504
    I own 3 sets of CK's and one of Hadley's. Love the Hadleys, but prefer the CK. Every manual I have seen for CK recommends an annual 'tear-down' unless you ride in particularly wet conditions and then every six months. The CK tool costs $150 and is a work of art in and of itself. I must admit I am always somewhat surprised how many posters on these boards buy top of the line equipment and then seem surprised they require maintenance?? I have to change the oil in my car every 3000 miles. In fact, every system on my car requires regular maintanence. My furnance, my central A/C, my PC they all require maintenance. What I have always loved about CK is that with the regular and by no means overwhelming maintenance, they have NEVER let me down on numerous bikes across numerous hubsets and headsets.


    Kings have their problems too. I have a couple sets of kings and a set of 240's with the upgrade. So far, I dont have any issues with the 240s, but I;ve only had them since the beginning of this season. I've needed to rebuild the kings a lot to keep them running properly. Twice now, I've gone too long without service and the hub stopped engaging reliably. King recommends that you fully service your hubs on a quarterly basis. This service costs about $100. I'll tell you what... it really pisses me off that one of the most expensive hubs on the market requires $3-400 worth of service each year. When I buy a high end part, I just want it to work. I don't really want to have to worry about it failing. or if my service interval is in spec. I suppose I just have to pay to play. Ugh.
    Last edited by MTBDad; 07-19-2010 at 04:12 AM.
    MTBDad
    MCM #47.867

    "Freedom has a scent like the top of a newborn baby's head" - Bono

  79. #79
    West Chester, PA
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,571
    I finally got around to sending this pic to David at DT usa yesterday and he got back to me first thing this morning that new ratchets are on the way. Luckily I didn't have any bearing or freehub damage.


  80. #80
    lazy piston
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    373
    This is probably a little bit offtopic since it's far from being catastrophic, but yesterday I pulled the 36t rings from my 440 FR hub and this is what they looked like (pics are 1500 x 1500 px):
    One ring: pic 1, pic 2, pic 3

    The other one: pic 1, pic 2, pic 3

    There are some edges of the teeth chipped off, and most of the teeth are deformed in the middle. These rings have been ridden for 7 months total, and since I've been switching between my two bikes their actual mileage is only circa 1200 miles. I didn't actually have any issues with engagement or any strange sounds coming from the freehub.

    Before that I had been riding the hub for 3.5 years with the original 18t ratchets and they still look far better than these 36t ones. I've put the old 18t ratchets back into the freehub and will continue to ride them.

    I used Mobil 1 Synthetic Grease for lubrication, and I don't think I overfilled the freehub with grease. I am not a clyde at ~180 lbs geared up and I usually rather sit and spin with a high cadence than stand and mash, so it's very unlikely that I put too much torque to the freehub.

  81. #81
    West Chester, PA
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,571
    The new ones I got seem to be the same as the old ones. Only 2 rides on them so far so I haven't checked them yet.

  82. #82
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    7,930
    I've ridden the crap out of my 18 tooth on my Hugi FR hub. Me thinks 18 tooth is good and plenty, both in the strong and durable department. Zero failures.

  83. #83
    Vaginatarian
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    5,685
    Quote Originally Posted by flyag1
    Nothing came loose: For the last couple rides I could hear a pop every once in a while... So I knew something was wrong.. finally yesterday I was going downhill and the freewheel started to lockup and turn the chain while I was coasting. So I treated the bike like it was a fixie and limped back home. You see what I found. I going to call DT this morning and see what they can do.

    I used Slick Honey to lube the ring gears.... maybe that was a bad choice?
    good leason here
    I had a similar issue with a mavic hub, made some noise but seemed to work
    what happens is a small piece of metal breaks off. at this point STOP DO NOT RIDE
    what happened to me and the op is that little piece of metal circulates around breaking off more and more pieces until all is lost.
    I seriously doubt the lube had anything to do with it. those star ratchets are pretty tough, unlike pawls. I did notice that new 36 tooth design is hollow while the original is solid

  84. #84
    AOK
    AOK is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: AOK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,073
    Quote Originally Posted by dan0
    I did notice that new 36 tooth design is hollow while the original is solid
    The newer 18 tooth ratchets are hollow as well. My Spec Roval hubs (240s with a different outer shell) came with hollow 18 tooth.

  85. #85
    meow, meow.
    Reputation: J. Random Psycho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    2,495
    Quote Originally Posted by AOK
    The newer 18 tooth ratchets are hollow as well.
    Ironically, I was asking myself this exact question earlier today, and there you came with an answer. )
    26" rigid SS 4130 BB7 nylon-flats ESI latex-tubes non-lubricated-8spd

  86. #86
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    107

    Avoiding chipped teeth. Why the grease matters.

    Also posted on the thread showing how to do this upgrade here:
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...87#post7413087

    For those doing this mod - which I recommend. SUPER easy and a dramatic improvement in performance. Esp for technical stuff.

    This should explain why you want grease w certain properties in key places.

    Before that, you prob have a little nice DT grease already without knowing it.
    If you have not prev serviced the freehub, there will prob be enough fresh original DT grease completely clean, on the INSIDE surface of the original star ratchets.

    I mean around the circumference of the hole in the centre of each ratchet.

    Just run your clean pinky finger around the inside of each of the old ratchets, and put that clean original grease on the ratchet teeth of the new ones and wipe the rest on their inner circumference.

    Use your thinned syn grease for the other surfaces and to make up any deficiency in quantity.Thinning w synthetic motor oil like Mobil 1 seems to work well.
    Buy a jug bigger than you need next oil change and have the mech give you what's left in the jug.

    NOTE.
    You do not want sticky grease on the inner or outside surfaces either.
    The springs have to be able to slide these ratchets together quickly when you crank.
    They have to slide quickly enough to fully engage before the leading edges meet.
    Viscous grease will have them slide together more slowly (smoothly, but too slowly) under the relatively weak pressure of the original springs.
    If you use viscous grease, then when you crank, the spring will not slide the ratchets together fast enough for the teeth to fully engage each other before the leading edges meet.
    Crunch!

    Equally, this could be solved by using stronger springs. But that in turn will likely make them louder. And you would have to be pretty sharp to find the right springs versus just using the old ones and appropriate grease.
    I guess you could deliberately plastically deform your existing springs by stretching them to pos offer more pressure. But I would not recommend it unless you are pretty confident and controlled.
    Maybe DT should have supplied stronger springs w these ratchets anyway just to avoid any problems. And/or some grease.

    Using thick too much grease on the outer or inner circumference will lead to exactly the problem that some have reported - chipped ratchet teeth as you will be applying power with the teeth only partially engaged cos the ratchets slide together too slowly when you give a sudden pop w the cranks.

    So make sure they can slide freely. Better to use thick oil than v viscous grease. Just service regularly and only use fully syn so it doesn't mess w the rubber seals.

    Obviously leaving even a little grit inside, or some getting in through the seal w water. could also keep the ratchet teeth partially apart by getting between them. Or could cause the ratchets not to slide, also keeping them partially or completely apart...
    So make sure there is no grit.
    Don't get any in there when cleaning your seals. And the advice in the thread about greasing the seals to prevent any getting in later is also v good.
    For seals, the choice of grease is up to you.
    I use thick enough to stay in there, but as thin as it can be to achieve that.
    Finish Line Teflon Syn is good for many jobs when mixed w syn oil as/when nec.

    Hope this helps people avoid the problem w chipped teeth that has been reported in at least one other thread.
    Enjoy easy, cheap, excellent upgrade!

  87. #87
    mtbr member
    Reputation: robertj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    402
    I had 36T ratchets installed on my 240s in Jan and they were toast (slipping under any power) by end of March (3 months). Ideal local conditions, no mud or water introduced.

    They were installed by a lbs who are very familiar with the product/hubs and suggested the upgrade from the 18T. The 36T was a great upgrade in terms of technical riding, but the durability seems to be severly lacking for my riding.

    I've been running King hubs on previous bikes for over 10 years with no issues at all in terms of durability or performance with just yearly maintenance (the 240s/wheels came with the bike I purhased in Nov).

    I purchased (and had installed by the same lbs) another set of 36T ratchets to keep me riding. I'm wondering if I happened to get a "bad" set of 36T ratchets originally, or is there something fundamentally wrong with the design or materials? Should I be looking at moving back to King hubs in the medium/long term, since going back to 18T engagement is not appealing to me?

    I contacted Dave at [email protected] last night to see what DT swiss would like to do. Edit1: that email bounced so I just went through the customer support email path.

    Edit2: attached a pic:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Catastrophic Failure DT Swiss 36 point Hub-dtswiss36stepfailure_sml.jpg  

    Last edited by robertj; 04-07-2011 at 09:54 AM.

  88. #88
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    7,930
    double post, delete.
    Last edited by Boyonabyke; 04-07-2011 at 03:23 PM.

  89. #89
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    7,930
    [QUOTE=robertj]I had 36T ratchets installed on my 240s in Jan and they were toast (slipping under any power) by end of March (3 months). Ideal local conditions, no mud or water introduced.

    I contacted Dave at [email protected] last night to see what DT swiss would like to do.
    Let us know what he has to say. I ran the 36 tooth for just under a month, it seems to require pull down and regreasing more frequently than my stock 18 tooth stars. Makes sense, it's sliding in and out twice as much.

    Dave and DT Swiss have been very helpful to me in the past, still run their product because of the reliablity, design, and durability, in stock form.

  90. #90
    mnt bike laws of physics
    Reputation: yogiprophet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    2,645
    Dave recommends cleaning/regreasing mor often that the 18T which is why they don't really advertise the "upgrade".
    But three months is rediculous. I've used mine for about a year on a bike I don't ride that often (my only 26er) and haven't any problems.

  91. #91
    West Chester, PA
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,571
    My 2nd set is chipping ever so slightly now. The lube matters but not as much as some people think, they chip due to the material not being strong enough. I wouldn't mind a slight weight penalty if they can make these out of a stronger steel.

  92. #92
    Underskilled
    Reputation: CaveGiant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    4,263
    DT ripped of CK design, couldn't do it properly and released a product to the market that is overpriced and unreliable.

    Why do people keep buying these things, CK is far superior.
    Why would I care about 150g of bike weight, I just ate 400g of cookies while reading this?

  93. #93
    mtbr member
    Reputation: boomn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    10,035
    Quote Originally Posted by CaveGiant
    DT ripped of CK design, couldn't do it properly and released a product to the market that is overpriced and unreliable.

    Why do people keep buying these things, CK is far superior.
    You keep repeating that stuff but as I pointed out in another thread, Hugi came out with their first Star Ratchet hub before CK was making hubs at all

  94. #94
    Plays with tools
    Reputation: customfab's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    4,606
    Quote Originally Posted by CaveGiant
    DT ripped of CK design, couldn't do it properly and released a product to the market that is overpriced and unreliable.

    Why do people keep buying these things, CK is far superior.
    have you ever had a king hub apart? Not a whole lot of similarity between the two hubs, not sure why you think they ripped king off other than your lack of knowledge on the matter. Sure DT wanted to be able to compete with king on a particular feature that MTBR users cry about on an hourly basis but that doesn't mean they ripped them off.

  95. #95
    mtbr member
    Reputation: robertj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    402

    Quick response from DT!

    New set of 36T on the way...I couldn't ask for more from a customer service standpoint, thanks DT (David and Mike)!

    It was mentioned via an email with DT, that my original set of 36T MAY have been mis-machined. I'll reserve judgement on the 36T durability based on my experience with 2nd new set that I just purchased and perhaps also the replacement set DT is sending me. I'm hoping to get a year out of my current wheelset and then will be looking to upgrade rims and maybe move to a different rear hub as well depending on how things go.

  96. #96
    West Chester, PA
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    4,571
    Quote Originally Posted by CaveGiant
    Why do people keep buying these things, CK is far superior.
    lighter
    easier basic maintenance
    never needs adjustment
    bearings last forever
    far less annoying noise
    great service from dt usa

  97. #97
    And He was Not
    Reputation: Enoch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    1,662
    I was able to get a super deal on a set of DT Hubs. After riding Kings for over 10 years. I was very impressed on how the DT's rolled, they just seem so free compared to my King hubs. THe 18 point ratchets were another story. Man they were clunky. I switched to the 36 ratchets and the engagement is tolerable now. I just hope they don't detonate on me.

    Got any success stories????
    Last edited by Enoch; 04-07-2011 at 02:31 PM.
    The Truth is out there. Here it isThe TRUTH

  98. #98
    ballbuster
    Reputation: pimpbot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    12,717
    Quote Originally Posted by 92gli
    lighter
    easier basic maintenance
    never needs adjustment
    bearings last forever
    far less annoying noise
    great service from dt usa
    Less bearing drag, too. A few friends of mine have complained about the drag.

    I dunno, I never owned a CK, but I would buy one. On major plus is that if you went to sell it in 5 years... or 10... it seems you won't lose much money in the deal. Resale on CK is crazy good.

    I love DT Swiss stuff, but 18 point doesn't cut it for me, and looks like 36 point isn't engineered or forged well enough.

  99. #99
    Fired Up, Here We Go
    Reputation: sabresix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    137
    3yrs on the DT240s with 36 ratchet, no problems; 150 lbs racer, doing around 5hrs/week on the mtb. I used the DT special grease, and stripped and re-lubed at the 2yr mark.
    Australian Defence Cycling Club - Team ARMY

  100. #100
    meow, meow.
    Reputation: J. Random Psycho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    2,495
    sabresix, have you been riding 36T prototypes? If I recall correctly, 36T star ratchets became available to the public some late summer 2009.
    26" rigid SS 4130 BB7 nylon-flats ESI latex-tubes non-lubricated-8spd

  101. #101
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    746
    Quote Originally Posted by Enoch
    Got any success stories????
    Ha,ha... don't laugh I gave my set of DT / Arch to the wife with the 18t ratchet. She is loving the wheelset... Dang good thing she doesn't follow MTBR

  102. #102
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Space Ranger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    70
    More than a year later and I'm still waiting on my catastrophic failure to happen. Maybe I suck at neglect?

  103. #103
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dictatorsaurus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    2,658
    Quote Originally Posted by Space Ranger
    More than a year later and I'm still waiting on my catastrophic failure to happen. Maybe I suck at neglect?
    Nope...you're just too weak.

  104. #104
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    746
    Quote Originally Posted by Space Ranger
    More than a year later and I'm still waiting on my catastrophic failure to happen. Maybe I suck at neglect?
    Flat lander's and people who don't ride don't count...

    Me "Big Guy"
    Me "RIde lots"
    Me "Ride in Mtn"
    Me hard on equipment

  105. #105
    mtbr member
    Reputation: 4slomo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    1,616
    Anyone using DT-Swiss hubs needs to Read The Friendly technical Manual maintenance requirements (download from the website), service at least annually and more often under harsh conditions, inspect freehub for function each time before riding, don't ride if there is a malfunction get it repaired, and use the DT-S grease on the star rachets. The star rachets and mating drive parts need to be thoroughly cleaned before regreasing. I find I need to service my 240s 18t freehub every 6-9 months, and can tell when it needs it by the rear wheel not freewheeling for as long when holding the bike up in the air.
    Hey everybody, ride my wheels! They ride good, real good.
    I'm a wheel builder. SRLPE Wheel Works. Send me a PM.

  106. #106
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    746
    Quote Originally Posted by 4slomo
    Anyone using DT-Swiss hubs needs to Read The Friendly technical Manual maintenance requirements (download from the website), service at least annually and more often under harsh conditions, inspect freehub for function each time before riding, don't ride if there is a malfunction get it repaired, and use the DT-S grease on the star rachets. The star rachets and mating drive parts need to be thoroughly cleaned before regreasing. I find I need to service my 240s 18t freehub every 6-9 months, and can tell when it needs it by the rear wheel not freewheeling for as long when holding the bike up in the air.
    Would have expected such a response from a DT Swiss employee.

    Truth is we are not following any other manufactures maintenance recommendations either... But we are not having issues with other manufacturers hubs.
    So tell us, why do the DT's require special treatment? (Seems to me like a cop-out... I call BS)

  107. #107
    mtbr member
    Reputation: 4slomo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    1,616
    I imagine a company employee would tend to follow company policy, but I've never worked for DT-S, so I don't have any first-hand knowledge.

    What I do know is that when I try to follow the requirements, my equipment usually either performs as designed, or fails due to a defect. I seem to have gotten warranty issues taken care of by manufacturers, when there has been a problem.

    Maybe it's like following the laws of physics, or trying to fight them?


    Quote Originally Posted by flyag1
    Would have expected such a response from a DT Swiss employee.

    Truth is we are not following any other manufactures maintenance recommendations either... But we are not having issues with other manufacturers hubs.
    So tell us, why do the DT's require special treatment? (Seems to me like a cop-out... I call BS)
    Hey everybody, ride my wheels! They ride good, real good.
    I'm a wheel builder. SRLPE Wheel Works. Send me a PM.

  108. #108
    Fired Up, Here We Go
    Reputation: sabresix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    137
    Quote Originally Posted by J. Random Psycho
    sabresix, have you been riding 36T prototypes? If I recall correctly, 36T star ratchets became available to the public some late summer 2009.
    Yeah, I was given a set of the 36t prototypes back in 2008. The last I checked they seemed identical to the current 36t ratchet.
    Australian Defence Cycling Club - Team ARMY

  109. #109
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Space Ranger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    70
    Quote Originally Posted by flyag1
    Flat lander's and people who don't ride don't count...

    Me "Big Guy"
    Me "RIde lots"
    Me "Ride in Mtn"
    Me hard on equipment


    Yeah, I'm a flatlander. In fact, every direction I ride when I ride is downhill. I'm also a waif.

    What are your next assumptions?

  110. #110
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    2,022
    The hubs are so easy to clean and regrease, that I do them every 3 months. I only had one set start to chip, but I did not service the hub as often as I should have. Even with that, DT hooked me up and sent me out a new set for free. Great experience with Dave and DT.

  111. #111
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    23

    Upset Spline 2014 29" fail after 5 rides - why they didn't fix it since than?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
    The hubs are so easy to clean and regrease, that I do them every 3 months. I only had one set start to chip, but I did not service the hub as often as I should have. Even with that, DT hooked me up and sent me out a new set for free. Great experience with Dave and DT.

    I got a chain lock while descending in high speed - one thing for sure - DT Swiss will not be on my bike - I just google for DT Swiss failing rear hub and I got so many results - why they are not fixing it?

    I went to the local bike shop and he smile - stand in the line my body, he show me a wall with so many DT Swiss rear wheel with the same problem

  112. #112
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Epic_Dude's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    1,050
    No problems with mine, then again I don't have the 36T version, makes sense to me that if you want the highest durability, you would not want the version of the star ratchet with more points.

    Also, you need to use the correct grease, if the grease is too thick it will not allow the star ratchet teeth to fully engage. This seems to be a common cause for those who have had failures of the 36T star ratchet.

  113. #113
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    12,859
    0 problems for me. But I use Campy grease and clean and lube when I hear the hub.

  114. #114
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    23
    Quote Originally Posted by eb1888 View Post
    0 problems for me. But I use Campy grease and clean and lube when I hear the hub.
    No maintenance. The bike is new . 5 rides only. I believe Dt put the right grease. Any how. For the future. I'll buy dt grease.

  115. #115
    Long Live the Gorn!
    Reputation: bvader's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    333
    Wow been riding 240s better part of a decade geared and SS including a lot of grueling climbs and bashing descents...never had an issue.. I do service regularly .. because its so easy. Guess I am lucky...

  116. #116
    This place needs an enema
    Reputation: mikesee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    13,762
    Quote Originally Posted by customfab View Post
    have you ever had a king hub apart? Not a whole lot of similarity between the two hubs, not sure why you think they ripped king off other than your lack of knowledge on the matter. Sure DT wanted to be able to compete with king on a particular feature that MTBR users cry about on an hourly basis but that doesn't mean they ripped them off.
    Very well put.

Members who have read this thread: 9

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.