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  1. #1601
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machianera View Post
    I was away for a month and ended up riding an enduro 29 few times.
    When I went back to the Lenz, the first thing I did was popping a wheelie and found my ass on the ground. I pretty much flipped. That happened because I got use to the enduro 29 and the Lenz is so much easier to lift off the ground.

    The main difference is the geometry. Short chainstay and low bb is not the same as short cs and high bb. The enduro is a long legged xc bike compared to the Lenz. The Lenz pedals better and the suspension is less noticeable.
    Again it sounds like the Lenz would be fine for twisty turns and rolling down chunk.....but for climbing and higher speeds.....I just don't see it.

    I have demoed several bikes over the past few months (many that you have) and there is no "perfect bike". There are trade offs. Example the Hightower will plow over anything but is not the most nimble. Pivot SW is very nimble with its short stays but not the best climber.

    No matter what the Lenz fan boys say the bike is not sprinkled with magic pixie dust. Again if tight turns, drops and little climbing is your thing the bike sounds great.

    However if climbing and higher speeds are your thing the short stays and suspension design holds it back.

  2. #1602
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    Quote Originally Posted by 29Inches View Post
    Again it sounds like the Lenz would be fine for twisty turns and rolling down chunk.....but for climbing and higher speeds.....I just don't see it.

    I have demoed several bikes over the past few months (many that you have) and there is no "perfect bike". There are trade offs. Example the Hightower will plow over anything but is not the most nimble. Pivot SW is very nimble with its short stays but not the best climber.

    No matter what the Lenz fan boys say the bike is not sprinkled with magic pixie dust. Again if tight turns, drops and little climbing is your thing the bike sounds great.

    However if climbing and higher speeds are your thing the short stays and suspension design holds it back.
    Why are you writing on this thread if you:
    - Never rode a Lenz but know how it rides
    - Need a 5/6 inches bike for fast and long climbing (?)
    - Think that short stays means bad climbing (is the opposite but rest of geometry is key).

    Maybe post a picture of you current bike and terrain you ride. Where do you live? So we are all on the same page.

    And moreover do you actually need a long travel 29er? It sounds like you are looking for a burly xc bike if you think the hightower is a truck. Or dont ride fast enough.

  3. #1603
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    It's great that you've chimed in with your experience on both bikes. That's valuable to others considering one (or the other) of these bikes.

    But surely you don't expect people to believe you? I mean c'mon -- there are at least 2 non-Lenz owners (whom may or may not actually ride bicycles) chiming in to this thread to tell you there are machines out there that have "ridden" these bikes and that can "prove" that what you think and feel about your Lenz simply isn't true.
    I am coming to the conclusion that "may or not" ride bikes is pretty accurate. I wonder where did they test these bikes. It seems they may have a chip on the shoulder about some members here.

    Going back to my enduro experience... i dont think these bikes are comparable. The suspension is very noticable. Cant climb with the shock open. And overall the low bb drop does not make it suitable for technical fast riding. Yes if you go down a very fast smooth open trail, the enduro is easier to handle. The position on the bike is more basic. All the ews pros on the enduro, run 170-180 forks on their bikes becuse the low bb drop. Pedal strikes and all. And lifting the front wheel, hopping etc on the enduro requires much more energy. That said it was an ok bike, but too much middle ground. Can't think of a place to ride where it would be the perfect match.

  4. #1604
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machianera View Post
    Why are you writing on this thread if you:
    - Never rode a Lenz but know how it rides
    - Need a 5/6 inches bike for fast and long climbing (?)
    - Think that short stays means bad climbing (is the opposite but rest of geometry is key).

    Maybe post a picture of you current bike and terrain you ride. Where do you live? So we are all on the same page.

    And moreover do you actually need a long travel 29er? It sounds like you are looking for a burly xc bike if you think the hightower is a truck. Or dont ride fast enough.
    No I liked the HT very much and it came in 2nd when I was shopping for my new rig. I ride just about everything.....SS, endurance racing and steep technical stuff. What I have learned is different bikes for different trails.

    I am sure you like you Lenz....enjoy :-)

  5. #1605
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    Quote Originally Posted by FluorescentPinkPanda View Post
    I've noticed that over the years, the bottom bracket height of the LB has dropped significantly. How does this affect things (good or bad)? Can an inch really make that big of a difference in handling? I imagine higher BBs are less prone to strikes.
    1 inch is huge difference. 5mm is noticable. Regardless bb height is not a good system on mtb. Because it changes depending on rim and tire. BB drop is more accurate.
    A low bb drop bike is easier to handle. That is why 29ers are so popular.
    A smaller bb drop makes the bike more capable on tech terrain bit harder to handle at speed. Which means 40mph+.

    Quote Originally Posted by FluorescentPinkPanda View Post
    What if I was not too concerned about pedaling/climbing efficiency. How good is the LB at descending vs. other long-travel 29ers?
    What kind of terrain?
    Open fast smooth trails, any bike with a lower bb and long chainstays will be easier to handle. But you dont need a 5 inch bike for it.
    Anything else, the Lenz will be better. A lot of the new long travel 29er are more xc trail than a LB or Behemoth. They are more comparable to a Lenz Mammoth.
    Quote Originally Posted by FluorescentPinkPanda View Post

    My current XC frame has 100mm of rear travel. What kind of differences will I notice if I go to 150mm? Will certain aspects of handling suffer? I keep wanting more and more travel, but I'm not sure what I'm getting myself into.
    It depends on the reason why are you going from 100 to 150. A 100 bike is made to work well going up, down and on flats. A 150 bike is made to go down fast and ride technical stuff. It is heavier. You sit more upright. It is easier to get off the ground. You are probably looking into totally different trails than the ones you ride on the 100.
    Each bike is made to handle well in the designed terrain. A 150 bike on a xc course will be a like riding a xc bike on a road ride.

  6. #1606
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    Quote Originally Posted by 29Inches View Post
    Again it sounds like the Lenz would be fine for twisty turns and rolling down chunk.....but for climbing and higher speeds.....I just don't see it.

    I have demoed several bikes over the past few months (many that you have) and there is no "perfect bike". There are trade offs. Example the Hightower will plow over anything but is not the most nimble. Pivot SW is very nimble with its short stays but not the best climber.

    No matter what the Lenz fan boys say the bike is not sprinkled with magic pixie dust. Again if tight turns, drops and little climbing is your thing the bike sounds great.

    However if climbing and higher speeds are your thing the short stays and suspension design holds it back.
    We can agree that there is no perfect bike.

    We can also agree that there is no pixie dust involved: The LunchBox has compromises like any other bike.

    It is clear that you are absolutely clueless when you say the LunchBox can't climb. Just couldn't be further from the truth.

    Likewise with your blanket statement about the "suspension holding it back". Perhaps the numbers can be tweaked on some computer program somewhere to say it ain't so, but spend some time in the saddle with one, after dialing it in for you, and you find that the suspension is excellent -- both uphill and down.

  7. #1607
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    Quote Originally Posted by 29Inches View Post
    No I liked the HT very much and it came in 2nd when I was shopping for my new rig. I ride just about everything.....SS, endurance racing and steep technical stuff. What I have learned is different bikes for different trails.

    I am sure you like you Lenz....enjoy :-)
    What I dont get is... why are you here talking about Lenz bikes? You never rode one, you just got a new bike and you still have the urgency of outing your suppositions about something you did not experience?
    Still waiting for pictures. And if you ride endurance we may be the same age

  8. #1608
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    Quote Originally Posted by 29Inches View Post
    Again it sounds like the Lenz would be fine for twisty turns and rolling down chunk.....but for climbing and higher speeds.....I just don't see it.

    I have demoed several bikes over the past few months (many that you have) and there is no "perfect bike". There are trade offs. Example the Hightower will plow over anything but is not the most nimble. Pivot SW is very nimble with its short stays but not the best climber.

    No matter what the Lenz fan boys say the bike is not sprinkled with magic pixie dust. Again if tight turns, drops and little climbing is your thing the bike sounds great.

    However if climbing and higher speeds are your thing the short stays and suspension design holds it back.
    You sound just like the guys on the Tallboy LT thread, that look at numbers and then comment on how the bike rides, while actual owners disagree and say you need to ride it.

    The Lunchbox climbs really well. I live on the east coast and all my trails are short, quick, rooty, rocky ups and downs. Lenz did better than Specialized FSR on the trails.
    OG Ripley v2

  9. #1609
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    So, um, an update.

    The LunchBox as discussed here is a project I've been involved with for...

    ...ever. Since before it existed. Not going to say it was my idea, but...

    ...it sort of was. It became a reality only because Devin was willing to indulge me, and because he likes riding badass bikes as much as the next guy. And the LunchBox was, per the title of this thread, "The bike that started it all". Long travel 29" wasn't a thing until these bikes existed, and they kept pushing that envelope with each successive iteration. Up to and including today.

    That said, I don't own one anymore. You can read the details on why (why not?) here.

    Cheers,

    MC

  10. #1610
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    Mike, you use your tongue prettier than a twenty dollar whore

  11. #1611
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel View Post
    Mike, you use your tongue prettier than a twenty dollar whore
    "S'more beans Mr. Taggart?"

  12. #1612
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    Standover height?

    So, this is a bit of a left turn, but that's what the internet is for right?

    I'm really intrigued by the Lunchmoney (or maybe a Lunchbox if I wimp out or are realistic) but the listed standover height on the XXL of 33 inches (which has my preferred TT length) correct? Current rides have standovers that are at 31 inches and 30.75 inches as a comparison. I didn't want to bother emailing Lenz and wasting their time yet with this one as I currently don't have the $$$ to pursue a new bike, and would have to be selling my current ride to fund a new frame, but is something that is rolling around in my mind.

    I promise I'm not trying to start (another) internet war over the various issues of standover... just thinking back on my own experiences and pretty confident that I wouldn't feel comfortable with that standover and my lack of skill considering the $$ that would be involved.

    For reference, my wife has a Small Leviathan that she absolutely loves (standover included--just hates catching her riding pants/shorts on the cable guides on the TT). Looks great, rides well and everything. Would love to start pursuing one myself, but that standover is banging away in the back of my mind...

  13. #1613
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    Quote Originally Posted by padrefan1982 View Post
    So, this is a bit of a left turn,
    Although he builds a lot of XXL's for himself and Zinn, I've personally never seen one so I have no idea on standover. Call Lenz and ask, then let us know what they say.

  14. #1614
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    Hello,
    I don't have time to read all posts here.
    Could someone help me and sum it up?
    I'm an enduro rider who rides about 3 or 4 event rides here in Germany a year and at least one or two a week, almost regardless of temperature, just not in the rain.
    Do I really need to look into getting one of these?
    Thanks!!!
    John
    I often start riding and cannot stop.

  15. #1615
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    Since you can't bothered to read it all, I'll save you not only time reading but also time shopping.

    Yes you need to buy one and I happen to have a Large one for sale.
    OG Ripley v2

  16. #1616
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    Man, you guys ride some spensive bikes!!!
    o.O

    That's all too rich for me.
    I'll have to stick to my ol' Spicy.

    "Carry on!"
    I often start riding and cannot stop.

  17. #1617
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iksobarg View Post
    Man, you guys ride some spensive bikes!!!
    o.O

    That's all too rich for me.
    I'll have to stick to my ol' Spicy.

    "Carry on!"
    How can you put a price on perfection? These bikes have been sprinkled with magic fairy dust.

  18. #1618
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    Quote Originally Posted by 29Inches View Post
    How can you put a price on perfection? These bikes have been sprinkled with magic fairy dust.
    Your douchebaggery is at once limitless and completely uncreative.

    Get a life. Go buy one if you must.

  19. #1619
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Your douchebaggery is at once limitless and completely uncreative.

    Get a life. Go buy one if you must.
    Mikey quit taking yourself so seriously.

    You must be fun at parties

  20. #1620
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iksobarg View Post
    Man, you guys ride some spensive bikes!!!
    Personally I think the Lenz frames are priced really well. Right in the same ballpark as mass produced smaller brands like Knolly for example. But you get a semi-custom frame you can tweak to some degree to better meet your needs made in the US.

    If you then buy a whole bunch of bling parts to hang off it you'll get a really expensive bike, but that part is optional.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  21. #1621
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    Quote Originally Posted by 29Inches View Post
    Mikey quit taking yourself so seriously.

    You must be fun at parties
    You are being incredibly lame.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  22. #1622
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    I've ridden a Lentz, and it's one of the best technical climbers I have been on, a climb swith may be wanted for long fire roads. But bikes that are good on these have compromise else where.

  23. #1623
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    I'm not going to pour any more gas on the fire...BUT I will finally be riding the Lunchbox at the Lunch Loops this coming weekend - as it's namesake would require. I don't "Go Pro" but we'll try and get a few pics of the bike in its element - should be fun.

  24. #1624
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    Quote Originally Posted by B. Rock View Post
    I'm not going to pour any more gas on the fire...BUT I will finally be riding the Lunchbox at the Lunch Loops this coming weekend - as it's namesake would require. I don't "Go Pro" but we'll try and get a few pics of the bike in its element - should be fun.
    You should take a lesson from some of the d-bags in this thread: skip the ride and just opine on mtbr all weekend instead. It's easier to speak from a position of authority when your head isn't all cloudy from riding bikes up and down chunky hills.

  25. #1625
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    ^^Ha, but how do you really feel Mike?

    Anyhow, despite this thread (and bike) being a couple years old now the bike still feels perfectly competent alongside its current peers. Big chunky rocks make you really appreciate the geometry and active suspension. Sub 30 lbs fully built out means it doesn't wear on you as the day goes on. I'm still tweaking my shock settings but it's been a great platform to grow my 'big boy line' riding skills on for sure.

    Didn't get to do as much of the lunch loops as originally intended, but we did goof off on horsethief for a bit. Could probably up the tire pressure in the front...

    The bike that started it all just got even better...-img_4213.jpg

  26. #1626
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    That tire pressure looks just fine to me.

  27. #1627
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    I think that was around ~10 psi at that point. Sidewall had a slight cut and was slowly leaking throughout the day. First time pinging a rim off of a rock during a move like that, felt pretty interesting.

    Also, the drop in for that trail is something I would love to learn to ride but holy hell is it more intense than the videos look, namely the bottom half.

  28. #1628
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    Quote Originally Posted by B. Rock View Post
    I think that was around ~10 psi at that point. Sidewall had a slight cut and was slowly leaking throughout the day. First time pinging a rim off of a rock during a move like that, felt pretty interesting.

    Also, the drop in for that trail is something I would love to learn to ride but holy hell is it more intense than the videos look, namely the bottom half.

    The initial drop in -- off of Mary's loop? (linked below)

    Or the lower bits of the one you're on in that pic?

    They ride about the same, I think. The one off of Mary's is more straightforward, mentally speaking. Both require more commitment than skill IMO.



  29. #1629
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    The Lenz pimp at it again....nothing to see...move along

  30. #1630
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    Quote Originally Posted by 29Inches View Post
    The Lenz pimp at it again....nothing to see...move along
    Why are you being such a tool. This is a thread about Lenz bikes. Are you that thick that it shocks you people are going to be talking about them positively here and sharing info???

    Why does that get you so butt hurt you have to jump in every few days and act like a jack ass?
    Last edited by vikb; 11-22-2016 at 11:03 AM.
    Safe riding,

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  31. #1631
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Why are you being such a tool. This is a thread about Lenz bikes. Are you that thick that it shocks you people are going to talking about them positively here and sharing info???

    Why does that get you so butt hurt you have to jump in every few days and act like a jack ass?
    Some people just like being internet trolls. You know the kids that got picked on a lot in school but never had the balls to stand up to the bullies. The internet is perfect for them, now they can be real cool talking shit hiding behind a screen.
    OG Ripley v2

  32. #1632
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Why are you being such a tool. This is a thread about Lenz bikes. Are you that thick that it shocks you people are going to talking about them positively here and sharing info???

    Why does that get you so butt hurt you have to jump in every few days and act like a jack ass?
    Funny stuff...

  33. #1633
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    The initial drop in -- off of Mary's loop? (linked below)

    Or the lower bits of the one you're on in that pic?

    They ride about the same, I think. The one off of Mary's is more straightforward, mentally speaking. Both require more commitment than skill IMO.


    Yep, that part of the initial drop in off of Mary's. It may just be commitment and letting the bike roll its way down, but that's still a learned skill in my opinion. Or at least it's something I haven't trained my brain to allow to happen yet. Next time we go I'll allow a window to session that area, that line in the vid looks smooth(er).

  34. #1634
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    Quote Originally Posted by B. Rock View Post
    Yep, that part of the initial drop in off of Mary's. It may just be commitment and letting the bike roll its way down, but that's still a learned skill in my opinion. Or at least it's something I haven't trained my brain to allow to happen yet. Next time we go I'll allow a window to session that area, that line in the vid looks smooth(er).
    it was pretty smooth that day. people will occasionally build ramps or chocks (aka "cheaters") into some of the worst holes in the line. they usually don't last long, and are almost always in a 'house of cards' condition -- ready to crumble and fall with a breath of wind. check 'em before you trust 'em.

    wx conditions make a big difference. if you get there the day after a rain, and not too many people have been up/down it yet, the rock will be clean(er) and you won't have sand and dust causing your tires to slip.

    if it hasn't rained in awhile it's a lot harder, as there is a fine film of dust on everything that removes a lot of traction.

    for some people, none of the above make any difference. i shot the video below of a buddy that hadn't been there in months, was on a brand-new-that-day bike (original short stay LunchBox circa 2008) and didn't bother to walk down and take a look. his 'style' of just letting off the brakes and committing works well for him. i don't have the confidence to even begin to try it that way.



  35. #1635
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    Lenz Behemoth with Shimano XT Di2

    Not sure if any other Lenz owners have tried it yet, but I've just installed XT Di2 on my Behemoth. A few pics are attached.

    Only real option for the battery was to use the external bottle mount version attached to the underside of the downtube. I didn't try and route the battery to derailleur cable internally through the chainstay, and instead ran it along the bottom externally. It is covered by the chainstay protector anyway. The cable runs under the bottom bracket into the battery. The cable from the battery to the handlebar display runs discreetly under the downtube.

    Lack of installation instructions and gear fine tuning instructions from Shimano caused some frustration, but I got there in the end thanks to a couple of useful You Tube videos.

    First ride today in the mud was fantastic. Crisp shifting, and great to be able to drop a lot of gears in a hurry by keeping a thumb on the trigger. No more ghost shifting.

    Chris

    The bike that started it all just got even better...-img_7369.jpgThe bike that started it all just got even better...-img_7365.jpgThe bike that started it all just got even better...-img_7364.jpgThe bike that started it all just got even better...-img_7360.jpg
    www.bikebrew.com.au
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  36. #1636
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    Nope, the xx1 I put on when I first built it is still shifting great despite some abuse over the past few years. Didn't realize those battery packs were that large/awkward. I take it there's no great way to fit that inside of the frame somehow?

  37. #1637
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    There are no bottle mounts on the inside of the down tube, so no place to mount the battery there.
    www.bikebrew.com.au
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  38. #1638
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    I've seen them stashed inside of a top tube - I really did mean 'in' the frame. Devin didn't seem to worried about drilling small holes for cable routing last I talked to him about it, although that was related to dropper posts.

  39. #1639
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    Steerer with a plug in the bottom.
    OG Ripley v2

  40. #1640
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Steerer with a plug in the bottom.
    Unfortunately the battery is too long - I even have about 1" of headset spacers installed and the length from the steerer tube top cap to the bottom of the steerer tube is less than the length of the battery.
    www.bikebrew.com.au
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  41. #1641
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    Quote Originally Posted by field_c View Post
    Unfortunately the battery is too long - I even have about 1" of headset spacers installed and the length from the steerer tube top cap to the bottom of the steerer tube is less than the length of the battery.
    Are there different batteries?

    Shimano XTR Di2 installing the battery in the fork steerer - bikeandskiblogbikeandskiblog
    OG Ripley v2

  42. #1642
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    No. Same battery. The battery is just too long for my steerer tube / headtube set-up.
    www.bikebrew.com.au
    Australian Distributor for Knolly Bikes|Chromag|Guerrilla Gravity|Dealer for LenzSport|MRP Suspension

  43. #1643
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    Out of curiosity, does anyone on here a) still own their LB, and b) use a coil shock? It dawned on me over the weekend that the bike was technically designed around a coil shock (or at least spec'd with one from Devin - Fox Vanilla). With newer, lighter coil shocks coming out it might be a fun experiment to toss one on but figured I would ask here first. Cheers.

  44. #1644
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    Quote Originally Posted by B. Rock View Post
    Out of curiosity, does anyone on here a) still own their LB, and b) use a coil shock? It dawned on me over the weekend that the bike was technically designed around a coil shock (or at least spec'd with one from Devin - Fox Vanilla). With newer, lighter coil shocks coming out it might be a fun experiment to toss one on but figured I would ask here first. Cheers.

    I don't own an LB, but I have the updated version in the Fatillac. Same geo and sus, but with the ability to run phatter tires.

    Yes, I've run coil on the LB, and the Fatillac. Sure it's fun. Not necessarily better or worse, just different.

    Pic.

  45. #1645
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    Fair enough. Might be worth trying at least, having had the bike for a couple years now my downhill speeds are increasing, and the size of rocks I ride it off of are also increasing.

    Really like that orange-cream color on the fatillac.

  46. #1646
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    So, an update. With the new generation of shocks coming out (dpx2, super deluxe, etc), and my continued struggles to get the Float X to feel quite right, I went on a hunt for a take off for either a coil with a climb switch or a current gen air shock. However, very few of these were popping up used in the 200x50 sizing, and I didn't want to drop $500+ for brand new. After conferring with a local shock guru we came up with the idea to just grab a 200x57 as those were plentiful and then add a spacer to limit travel. Happens all the time apparently, and even the Float X that came with the bike was a 200x57 with a 7mm internal travel limiting spacer. Cool.

    I procured a shock, a take off from a hightower - a DPX2 in 200x57. Out of curiosity I tossed it on the frame having always heard that the 6" rocker arms + 200x57 shock was a no go. This was true, the chainstay truss hit the seat tube before the shock bottomed out. What was interesting though was that there was only ~3mm of travel left in the shock - meaning the 50mm travel options were leaving travel on the table, and lots of it.

    Knowing that being able to use off the shelf shocks is vastly more useful than having to have a 3-4mm spacer made anytime I wanted to change shocks, I figured I'd try tossing in an offset bushing or two, mounted in 'reverse', to see if I could get away with not making a spacer. Boom - with a flipped offset bushing in the bottom of the shock, and a normal bushing in the top, the shock bottoms out with plenty of clearance all around, including the pedal to the ground.

    So, what this all means, is that the X2, Vivid Air, any number of coil shocks, DVO options....are all on the table now with a bushing swap. The goal of this project wasn't to increase travel necessarily but to have more shock options for better performance. Yes, an off the shelf 200x50 would have worked but the 200x57 used market was too hard to ignore. Looking at the leverage ratio at the end of travel with the 50mm stroke shock, I'd ballpark that adding 7mm travel at the shock adds around 13mm travel at the wheel. Ish.

    My BB was at 13.5" before with the Float X with a minion DHF on the front, aggressor rear, and fork at 150mm travel. Now that the eye to eye has effectively increased by 2.5mm I checked again and BB height is right at 13.75". I plan on bumping the Pike to 160mm from the 150mm it is currently at to better match the increased travel, so that will go up slightly.

    I would add that the bushing company technically cannot recommend running their bushings like this as if it ever slips and rotates - it would be a bad time. I have also not run this past Devin and crew yet either so take these modifications as you will. You could arguably run a 210x55 metric shock with dual offset bushings in their proper orientation but the eye to eye would grow by 5mm instead of 2.5mm.

    The Pike is down for service, but ride report will follow soon. Cheers.
    The bike that started it all just got even better...-20180321_155410.jpg
    The bike that started it all just got even better...-20180321_153953.jpgThe bike that started it all just got even better...-20180321_154850.jpg

  47. #1647
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    Following up if for nothing else other than closing the loop, or if anyone is still thinking of snagging one of these. The DPX2 was a great improvement over the Float X, but the 200x57 experiment + offset bushing was a marginal failure. On the biggest hits, the bottom out bumper would squish enough to allow frame contact. This could likely be remedied by adding a volume spacer or making a small spacer but I decided it was finally time to try a coil. The slightly higher BB height was nice though, so that might come back around.

    Switched over the a CCDBIL with a VALT spring. The weight gain was 0.35 lbs over the DPX2, or roughly 160 grams. Devin's original spec was a coil shock (Fox Vanilla IIRC) and the geo chart even shows a coil. Why it took me 4 years to try one is beyond me but suffice to say I will not be going back to air on this bike. The mid stroke wallow of the air shocks I was fighting for years is completely gone, and the top end is buttery smooth. 0.35 lbs is not worth losing sleep over, especially not on a 6" trail bike.

    TTFN
    The bike that started it all just got even better...-20180703_114418.jpg

  48. #1648
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    Yep, they sure feel good with coil.

    It's fascinating to me that this bike was so far ahead of it's time, so good at what it did (then and now) and yet Devin sells almost none of them today. He sells shit-tons of plus bikes, but no one comes to him for the LB anymore.

    He emailed a few days ago to tell me that he's working on something similar but updated -- a 6" travel bike with a longer shock/stroke, updated geo, and the ability to fit 2.6" or even 3.0 tires.

    As I always do when he drops news like this, I responded with "take my money dammit!".

  49. #1649
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    Well, to be fair here, the leverage curve on these bikes is quite clearly optimized for a coil shock and an air shock really shouldn't be speced on the bike. When it comes to leverage curves, many manufacturers DO modify the curves so an air shock works pretty well. Others are designed as a compromise if intended to run both, but this one in particular seems to heavily favor a coil and an air shock is going to be pretty poor. IMO, suspension is an area where you should never compromise. Why the manufacturers keep specing air shocks on bikes that are clearly not designed for them I don't know, but it seems a good amount of manufacturers still don't really know what they are doing in this area. For an air shock, the leverage curve ideally would be regressive, then progressive in the mid-travel, then regressive again at the end. That counters the natural tendency of air shocks, which is progressive at first, then flat through the mid-stroke, then ramps up at the end.

    If Lenz is specing them with air shocks, shame on them.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  50. #1650
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    Mike, if he changes things up, I'd be interested in your experience when you get one

    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Yep, they sure feel good with coil.

    It's fascinating to me that this bike was so far ahead of it's time, so good at what it did (then and now) and yet Devin sells almost none of them today. He sells shit-tons of plus bikes, but no one comes to him for the LB anymore.

    He emailed a few days ago to tell me that he's working on something similar but updated -- a 6" travel bike with a longer shock/stroke, updated geo, and the ability to fit 2.6" or even 3.0 tires.

    As I always do when he drops news like this, I responded with "take my money dammit!".
    Lrg GG Pedalhead 29/27+
    XMed GG Smash 29/27+
    Lrg Devinci Hendrix 27+ (Loaner)
    Pivot Shuttle 27+ (wife)

  51. #1651
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    That is the WMD of rides right there my friend!

  52. #1652
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Yep, they sure feel good with coil.

    It's fascinating to me that this bike was so far ahead of it's time, so good at what it did (then and now) and yet Devin sells almost none of them today. He sells shit-tons of plus bikes, but no one comes to him for the LB anymore.

    He emailed a few days ago to tell me that he's working on something similar but updated -- a 6" travel bike with a longer shock/stroke, updated geo, and the ability to fit 2.6" or even 3.0 tires.

    As I always do when he drops news like this, I responded with "take my money dammit!".
    Longer stroke would be nice if only to be able to run a lower spring rate/air pressure. I'm fortunate that I only weigh ~160-170lbs kitted up, a heavier rider might be in trouble.

    I *think* I could squeeze 2.6 in the rear if I really wanted, but I need to kill my current set of tires before I try one. I do scratch my head as to why I don't see more of them since a lot of the 'new' 29er geo seems to match my 4 yr old trail bike, minus top tube length which is fine with me. I'll take the pinch of instability at break neck speeds vs the extra nimbleness for techy climbing.

    If he's reading this (or you want to pass this onto him)...water bottle cage + more room for a dropper are my biggest gripes. I could even do without the water bottle but I'm extremely limited on what dropper fits in the frame with the bend in the seat tube.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Well, to be fair here, the leverage curve on these bikes is quite clearly optimized for a coil shock and an air shock really shouldn't be speced on the bike. When it comes to leverage curves, many manufacturers DO modify the curves so an air shock works pretty well. Others are designed as a compromise if intended to run both, but this one in particular seems to heavily favor a coil and an air shock is going to be pretty poor. IMO, suspension is an area where you should never compromise. Why the manufacturers keep specing air shocks on bikes that are clearly not designed for them I don't know, but it seems a good amount of manufacturers still don't really know what they are doing in this area. For an air shock, the leverage curve ideally would be regressive, then progressive in the mid-travel, then regressive again at the end. That counters the natural tendency of air shocks, which is progressive at first, then flat through the mid-stroke, then ramps up at the end.

    If Lenz is specing them with air shocks, shame on them.
    He specs them with coils, or used to anyway. It was going to come with a Vanilla when I said I wanted an air shock because I wanted to save weight. That was my mistake.

    Edit: was also worried about climbing efficiency of the vanilla. the new generation of coils with climb switches has remedied that concern, although I find myself leaving the coil open most of the time to be honest, whereas the air shocks I would almost always put into a trail or climb mode.

  53. #1653
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    Quote Originally Posted by B. Rock View Post

    Edit: was also worried about climbing efficiency of the vanilla. the new generation of coils with climb switches has remedied that concern, although I find myself leaving the coil open most of the time to be honest, whereas the air shocks I would almost always put into a trail or climb mode.
    Well, climbing efficiency comes from a good suspension design IMO, lockouts are just for fire-roads and asphalt roads and only necessary for the crazy XC racers that are using it to keep the bike from moving due to chassis weighting and body-english from their wild power inputs. I have a beef with the mtb suspension industry and it's that they don't often spec a shock that lets you adjust the low speed compression and high speed compression to any usable amount, where you can get a good firm feeling that still blows off nicely for sharp-edged hits. This is usually more possible on the higher end DH shocks, and less possible on the more XC stuff. On the more XC stuff, you have those 3-position levers that give you "blows through travel", "stable, but flings my ass into the air when I hit a bump" and "impossible to use on a trail" settings. At least with something like the DHX2, you can tune a little bit of the dive out and not take such a huge hit in bump absorption. In any case, the majority of the efficiency should come from the suspension design, should not interact with bump absorption, and then your damper is free to do what it's designed to do. Any damping over what's necessary for bump absorption will make it harsher and I want suspension on the climbs for the traction, which is opposite of putting a lockout on. So good efficiency should not be bet on a lockout, you shouldn't have to compromise the climbing traction, and the manufactures should definitely spec the parts that the bikes are designed for. Like in this case, an air shock should not be an option and they really should provide more info on the leverage curve if they are going to sell it without a shock. We (as consumers) are pulling these manufacturers kicking and screaming to get to the point where we have these things. The industry loves to push 3-position levers, lockouts, adjustments that just make shocks harsher and other gimmicks.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  54. #1654
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    He emailed a few days ago to tell me that he's working on something similar but updated -- a 6" travel bike with a longer shock/stroke, updated geo, and the ability to fit 2.6" or even 3.0 tires.
    That is a spicy bit of info right there. We talking like a year out or a month out?

  55. #1655
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    Quote Originally Posted by kragu View Post
    That is a spicy bit of info right there. We talking like a year out or a month out?

    Betting within a month.

  56. #1656
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    Will that thread be titled 'the bike that started it all got even better and now just got even mo betta'?

    I told myself my next bike would be a gearbox bike. If that's on the table too...inquiring minds would like to know.

  57. #1657
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    Quote Originally Posted by B. Rock View Post
    Will that thread be titled 'the bike that started it all got even better and now just got even mo betta'?

    I told myself my next bike would be a gearbox bike. If that's on the table too...inquiring minds would like to know.

    Ha -- we can crowdsource the title...

    I don't know what Devin's doing WRT gearboxes. I'm intrigued by them too and have demo'ed a few, but I'm personally not ready to commit to that technology just yet. I want them to be ready, I just don't think they're quite there.

  58. #1658
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    Fair enough. I planted the bug in Nick's ear awhile back but wasn't sure how far it went. I know they're not quite ready for the masses but I think they're close enough at this point to add to my personal stable. Granted I've only tried the pinion, I haven't had a chance to try an effigear yet. It seems like Devin has pushed the edge before (wheel size, geo, etc), hence why I was wondering if a gearbox would be up his alley.

  59. #1659
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    Quote Originally Posted by B. Rock View Post
    Fair enough. I planted the bug in Nick's ear awhile back but wasn't sure how far it went. I know they're not quite ready for the masses but I think they're close enough at this point to add to my personal stable. Granted I've only tried the pinion, I haven't had a chance to try an effigear yet. It seems like Devin has pushed the edge before (wheel size, geo, etc), hence why I was wondering if a gearbox would be up his alley.

    I can't/won't/don't speak for Devin. Nick might. Betting they'd do one for you if that's what you're set on.

  60. #1660
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    What is the best email to get a hold of Devin? The email address on facebook page is different from the one listed on the Lenz website. I've not gotten a response through the Lenz site email, but also don't want to be pesky either.
    Deflated - buy parts to sell parts to buy more parts.. bikes are my drug of choice

    FATTrailer for the kiddo

  61. #1661
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    lenzsportbikes@gmail.com . I'll PM you the phone #. It's a small outfit, communication can be sparse at times.

  62. #1662
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Betting within a month.
    It's been a month...any news?
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  63. #1663
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    Well, I'm in the club now. Just bought an XL behemoth frame/ccdbair IL off pinkbike! This'll take all winter to build and recover

  64. #1664
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    It's been a month...any news?

    I've been riding it for ~3 weeks. Still fiddling and learning...

    ...and grinning...

  65. #1665
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    I've been riding it for ~3 weeks. Still fiddling and learning...

    ...and grinning...
    Hmmm.....silver/polished frame?
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  66. #1666
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Hmmm.....silver/polished frame?

    Si. Did my sweetie leak a pic?!

  67. #1667
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Si. Did my sweetie leak a pic?!
    You know that rustling in the bushes near your house you heard? They do say stalking is the most sincere form of appreciation.

    Don't worry even with my zoom Lenz there was not much detail to be gleaned other than frame colour.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  68. #1668
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    Test
    If you can't keep the rubber side down......at least smile for the camera!

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