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Thread: The Big Mama

  1. #1
    Harmonius Wrench
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    The Big Mama

    Salsa Cycles just released info on their upcoming Big Mama. Check it out on my blog

    Or after 10:30am CST today you can go to Salsa's new site and see it there.

    It's a pretty sweet new rig! Thanks to the Salsa Crew for lettin' me ride it first.
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  2. #2
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    sweet and simple

    great write up brother! that bike looks smart. Salsa always makin some fine lookin bikes.

    good stuff, keep er commin!
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  3. #3
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    Nice looking bike - good pricepoint as well.
    Happiness depends more on the inward disposition of mind than on outward circumstances. Benjamin Franklin

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    Looks very, very nice. I realy like the rear post mount brake, very clean. Thanks for an excelent write up.

  5. #5
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    ...now, I know this is the 29'er forum, but at this point you're the only one with info about these bikes. Care to share a little info on its 26 inch little sister? Edit: Bikeman claims the EL K. is a 5in full squish.
    Good write-up on the Big Mama!
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  6. #6
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    Looks great, but I'd have to see long-term durability on the "no-pivot" design before I bought one. Works great for the Dos, I know, but how many people are putting their Dos through the rigors this set-up may see...
    That aside, solid offering from a great company. Salsa gets it.

  7. #7
    Witty McWitterson
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    Mike B, there are pivots, just none on the stays. If Yeti can do it, so can Salsa. The stays flex only 5mm through the course of the travel of the bike. You're looking at a relatively standard single pivot bike.

    Congrats on a great looking bike Jason and the Salsa Team. As soon as I saw it last fall, I knew you had something good on your hands. Now I can't wait to ride one!
    Just a regular guy.

  8. #8
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    El Ka-Boinker

    Quote Originally Posted by RideFaster
    ...now, I know this is the 29'er forum, but at this point you're the only one with info about these bikes. Care to share a little info on its 26 inch little sister? Edit: Bikeman claims the EL K. is a 5in full squish.
    Good write-up on the Big Mama!
    Yeah, five inches on the El K. It's stays flex even more at 7mm. Otherwise the component spec is identical with a Fox Float RL 140 on front. The head angle is 69 degrees, hmm............color of course, wheel size.. Yeah, that's about it.

    Delivery dates and pricing identical to the Big Mama too.
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  9. #9
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    Well, I figured I'd want one... and I want one...

    Now someone just needs to buy a medium ride it gently for 2 months then sell it to me for $750.00....

    Or I need to get a part time job at a bike shop...
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  10. #10
    Harmonius Wrench
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Brown
    Looks great, but I'd have to see long-term durability on the "no-pivot" design before I bought one. Works great for the Dos, I know, but how many people are putting their Dos through the rigors this set-up may see...
    That aside, solid offering from a great company. Salsa gets it.
    Mike B, to add to what martini said, Salsa looked at how the drop out attached to that stay too and added a lot more weld area there to accomodate the the obvious increase in stress due to the slightly flexing stay. Also, they told us that they have never seen a Dos Niner break where the chainstay flexes, so they were extremely confident that this design would hold up.
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  11. #11
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    I understand the design, I think- doesn't it differ from the Yeti in that the Yeti's flex point is carbon?
    Anyway, I've learned (the hard way) that when any company tries something new and innovative, it's best for me to wait and see if the new product withstands the test of time before I buy it. A few times, including last weekend, new and innovative designs have failed on me in one way or another, sometimes catastrophically. So, I've decided to not be the "first kid on the block" guy and wait to see if the cool new stuff holds up under others.
    Again, super-nice looking bike from a great company. Really addresses a market niche. I will be very interested to hear how it performs in total under long-term use.
    Mike

  12. #12
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    The first couple of generations of GF Sugars flexed in the seat stays as well. Although they had some other problems, I do not recall seeing any durability issues on the Sugars and Sugar +'s due to flexing seat stays.

    G
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  13. #13
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    Nice. Bad timing for me, but it sure looks like a smart pricepoint. Looking forward to seeing more on it. I sure like some of the details on it. Looks well thought out. Time will tell on the stays/no pivot thing, but it is not like is has never been done before.
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    Salsa,

    Good looking bike..I'll have to keep my eye on this one for sure...CF..

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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRAZY FRED
    Good looking bike..I'll have to keep my eye on this one for sure...CF..
    You just like orange.

    Looks like a well thought out frame in many details and regards.

    Love the tire clearance.

    Check out the PDF for good photos and details.

    Too bad about the me too geometry...yawn. How many times have we seen this:

    Big Mama
    Head Tube Angle: 71
    Seat Tube Angle: 73
    Chainstay Length: 18.5 (470mm)
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  17. #17
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    Those are some mightly long chainstays!

  18. #18
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    What a sweet paint job! I hope it holds up well. It's a bit more subdued for Salsa frames.

  19. #19
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    Not the price I thought...

    Nice looking frame, but it is much more than I thought it would be. Kinda like a Niner FS price range.

    I was thinking it would be closer to the Voodoo FS price range. I guess Voodoo has the 29er FS "value" market cornered..still.
    You cannot go against nature, because when you do, its part of nature too.

  20. #20
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    Looks nice. I guess I'll have to start saving since I just recently finished the dos build. Its a vicious cycle

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky1231
    Looks nice. I guess I'll have to start saving since I just recently finished the dos build. Its a vicious cycle
    No, I'm sorry Vicious Cycles is a different company. Ba dum tish!

  22. #22
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    OT: Fox forx color?

    GT, first off, thanks for unveiling the new Salsa. It looks great and look forward to seeing it in person.

    You mention that the 09 Fox F29 120 mm comes in black in your review. My shop has called Fox regarding color of the forx and they are all white at this point. Unless, it is OEM. Can you clarify that for me? I think all Fox Forx's are white no matter travel while OEM colors are black (or what a manufacturer wants). I preferred a black fork due to the custom color of my frame which took me back to the Reba for now. Maybe Marzocchi will come out with something for 2009.

    Thanks,
    L8
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG
    Those are some mightly long chainstays!
    No doubt. Well, who knows. One would suppose they did their homework. Maybe it is for the tire clearance in that forged yoke.
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  24. #24
    jmw
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    Cool graphics....would be sweeter if it was white w/ some green graphics though....

    Can't wait to see a real one!
    future nature

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    Kudos for the rear post style disc brake mounts...a trend I hope continues...

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    Salsa's website is back up & running! Love Salsa bikes and was anxious to check out specs for the Big Mama. Searching for a quicker handling 29er better suited for tight rooty singletrack, and am not psyched with the 18.5" C/S length, or a 45" wheelbase (LG size).
    Any other (LG size) F/S 29er's other than a Titus Racer X, or Niner Jet 9 with a sub 44" W/B?
    If anyone has the W/B specs for Voodoo's Canzo 29 - please share...
    Thanks,

  27. #27
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    I like some of the features - the post mount rear brake mount and angled cable stop for the front derailleur - good ideas IMO.
    Happiness depends more on the inward disposition of mind than on outward circumstances. Benjamin Franklin

  28. #28
    Harmonius Wrench
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    I'm back home.........

    Just got back in the door here and want to address a few things I see being discussed here.

    Chainstay length: Once I found out what that measurement was, (after I rode it) I was astounded. Really......I couldn't believe it! I thought it must have been a typo, or that I heard it wrong because the bike wheelies and pops around corners like a 17 inch chainstay bike. I know no one here will believe it or agree, but this bike will get you around tight stuff just fine. In fact, as I rode it I was thinking it might just be the FS 29"er for East Coasters. But again, you folks will just have to ride it to find out for yourselves. I know how these boards work and if the chainstays are 18 plus inches most here will generally write the bike off. Well, too bad if you do! Your cutting yourself short, I know.

    Geometry: So here we go again: Geometry. You know, it's just like the chainstay thing, I know it won't matter what folks that have ridden it say, but this bike steers just fine. Keep in mind: The fork has 46mm of offset. I thought I felt a hint of stableness as I rode it, much like the Lunchbox in this regard. It's also worth noting that I had a "blind" test ride. I didn't know the geometry, and even though Jason asked me my preferred shock pressures and settings, it was a ruse. He set it up as he wanted with the damper in the open position, slow rebound, and the fork about 30 psi less than I usually would set it. I never bottomed out, (came really close) and I thought it was a tad soft, but very rideable. It's a trail bike. An "all day" type bike. So you wouldn't necessarily want it to steer like say, a Mamasita. That would get to be too nervous, too twitchy after you got tired. When I got tired, I was happy it wasn't demanding me to be "up on the wheel" but allowed me to relax and recover without fear of crashing my brains out.That's my take. I think they nailed it handling-wise. YMMV

    Price: You know, this bike is a 7 tube Scandium frame with all other fittings being custom forgings made especially for the Big Mama. Some of those forgings are extremely complex. (Link, bottom bracket/pivot come to mind) Does a bike like the Canzo even compare? Salsa makes no appologies for putting out the best product that they possibly could. (Their words, not mine) This means that if you believe their goals of Reliability, Durability, and Attention to Detail, then you will be happy to buy in. It's not everybodies cup of tea, nor can everyone spend that kind of cash-ola.

    Fox Fork: Every 120mm example of the F-29 I've seen has been black. So, if Fox is retaining white across the board for '09, that's news to me. I was simply trying to point out that my pics showed a black Fox fork and that I didn't believe that the actual delivered Big Mama bikes would have black forks, but white ones as we were shown in our literature.
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    Price: You know, this bike is a 7 tube Scandium frame with all other fittings being custom forgings made especially for the Big Mama. Some of those forgings are extremely complex. (Link, bottom bracket/pivot come to mind) Does a bike like the Canzo even compare? Salsa makes no appologies for putting out the best product that they possibly could. (Their words, not mine) This means that if you believe their goals of Reliability, Durability, and Attention to Detail, then you will be happy to buy in. It's not everybodies cup of tea, nor can everyone spend that kind of cash-ola.

    Fox Fork: Every 120mm example of the F-29 I've seen has been black. So, if Fox is retaining white across the board for '09, that's news to me. I was simply trying to point out that my pics showed a black Fox fork and that I didn't believe that the actual delivered Big Mama bikes would have black forks, but white ones as we were shown in our literature.
    GT - good points on all. I mentioned the pricepoint in my earlier post in this thread. For the visible quality - I think the price is right. If fits in nicely, you've got the Canzo at $750, the Monk at $1k, the Big Mama at $1300-1400, the Racer X and RIP9 at $1500, the Spider at $1900 and the Sultan at $2100. I hope it sells well for them.

    Cruzthepug's 09 F29 120mm is white, as are those on Competitive Cyclist - I hope they make a black 120, but I "think" they're white.
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  30. #30
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    Thanks for posting this Ted. I'm shopping for a FS 9er in my near future, and being a Turner kool-aid chugger, I was leaning heavily toward a Sultan...until I saw this!
    I'll be very interested to hear more reports and actually try one...always been intrigued by Salsa bikes.
    2 Q's:
    1] what's the warranty on that frame?
    2] it's spec'd for a 100mm fork, but how would it handle a 120mm ??

    thnx!
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  31. #31
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    I look forward to riding a big mama, hard.

    That being said, I've never been a fan of flexing stays vs. pivots. Especially when the material is aluminum. CF, plate steel or Ti I can understand, but Scandium? I can maybe see it on a short travel "XC"/"Race" bike but a "trail bike"?

    Anyway, I look forward to a test ride. Salsa makes nice stuff and I'm loving my Casseroll SS commuter.
    Professional Amateur

  32. #32
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    I think the bike looks great. Sounds like it would be fun to ride as well, but I'm a little put off by the name Big Mama. When I hear that name, I think of Martin Lawrence in a fat suit and a wig.

  33. #33
    Harmonius Wrench
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    xjbebop: #1: same as all other Salsa Product. Jason may chime in on this after he's back from Chequamegon on Friday.

    #2: Some of the prototypes were ridden with a 120mm fork and were said to be just peachy with that. Obviously a rider using the longer travel will also be craving the added stability factor, although I don't think it would be a huge difference from a 100mm fork. That said it was "designed around a 100mm travel fork" which indicates to me that it's intended handling traits will be most enhanced by using a 100mm travel fork. That doesn't say to me that everyone will like that, so I say experiment and see what you like.

    Soupboy: Salsa enginerd Blake Jennsen went to great lengths to say that the Dos, which flexes waaay more than this rigs seat stays ever will, has never exhibited a chainstay related failure due to stresses of bending. So, 5mm of bending? I don't think it will be an issue either. It was obvious to see that they thought it through with the drop out attachment weld and that it actually enhances the way the shock works. Again, Blake said that they would have used a pivot in "a heartbeat" (his words) but that their testing showed that the Scandium flexing seat stay model performed better. (And we all know how you like your "models" to perform better, Soup! ) You'll have to swing a leg over one and see.

    AkMJ29: The name, as I understand it, is a take off on Salsa's Mamasita, for what it's worth. I wouldn't let the name bother you, you can hardly see it graphically and the bike rides really well. But, to each his own.
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    Soupboy: Salsa enginerd Blake Jennsen went to great lengths to say that the Dos, which flexes waaay more than this rigs seat stays ever will, has never exhibited a chainstay related failure due to stresses of bending. So, 5mm of bending? I don't think it will be an issue either. It was obvious to see that they thought it through with the drop out attachment weld and that it actually enhances the way the shock works. Again, Blake said that they would have used a pivot in "a heartbeat" (his words) but that their testing showed that the Scandium flexing seat stay model performed better. (And we all know how you like your "models" to perform better, Soup! ) You'll have to swing a leg over one and see.
    Better yet, put soupy on the Big Mama with a pair of Blunts and let him have at it. Even with his favorite rims, he'll be yapping about the Big Mama flex at some point. :-o

    Nice write up, G-Ted. My favorite part of the Salsa website when talking about the Big Mama is this....

    After four years of highly acclaimed success in the 29’er world, Salsa proudly introduces Big Mama, our 4” travel, big-wheeled steed.

    * Standover height is based on using a 26x2.1 tire measuring 670mm in diameter


    What? 4 years of highly acclaimed success in the big wheels and the standover is based on a 26" tire. LOL.... Hopefully they get that typo corrected ASAP.

    How's the color look in person? Orange Funk? Your photos made it look pretty much like the Orange Peelz of the Dos, but the Salsa website photos make it look a little more "brown".
    Last edited by BruceBrown; 06-18-2008 at 05:59 AM.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    Fox Fork: Every 120mm example of the F-29 I've seen has been black. So, if Fox is retaining white across the board for '09, that's news to me. I was simply trying to point out that my pics showed a black Fox fork and that I didn't believe that the actual delivered Big Mama bikes would have black forks, but white ones as we were shown in our literature.
    My '09 F29 120mm is white. As yet I haven't tried sanding off the powdercoat to see if it's black underneath . The Fox website has also been updated to show the '09 forks and only shows the F29 available in white. So maybe the black ones are OEM only or sample forks from a pre-production run.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by AkMJ29
    I think the bike looks great. Sounds like it would be fun to ride as well, but I'm a little put off by the name Big Mama. When I hear that name, I think of Martin Lawrence in a fat suit and a wig.
    Yeah Mama Grande would have fit the theme better I think Although not sure if that is proper Spanish or not...it's been a looooong time since HS.

    G
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  37. #37
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    Isn't scandium lighter AND stronger?

    I am having a difficult time understanding why the Mama weighs 7 lbs. I have a Dos and a Voodoo Dambala and like them both for what they are. I really don't have any bias. HOWEVER, why does a Canzo 29er frame in med. weigh 5.9 lbs (made w/generic AL) and the new Mama with full Scandium tubeset weigh a pound more? Am I missing something? If the Scandium is stronger AND lighter, either the Mama is wayyy overbuilt or the Canzo is underbuilt (never heard of a failure though). I really like the Mama, and want to love it, but it seems pretty heavy for a Scandium frame.
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach417
    ...why does a Canzo 29er frame in med. weigh 5.9 lbs (made w/generic AL) and the new Mama with full Scandium tubeset weigh a pound more?
    Manufacturer's weights?

    I don't know this for sure, but it could account for the difference...

    Voodoo is weighed without shock and Salsa is weighed with?
    Last edited by Nater; 06-18-2008 at 10:32 AM.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyin'W
    Salsa's website is back up & running! Love Salsa bikes and was anxious to check out specs for the Big Mama. Searching for a quicker handling 29er better suited for tight rooty singletrack, and am not psyched with the 18.5" C/S length, or a 45" wheelbase (LG size).
    Any other (LG size) F/S 29er's other than a Titus Racer X, or Niner Jet 9 with a sub 44" W/B?
    If anyone has the W/B specs for Voodoo's Canzo 29 - please share...
    Thanks,
    Might want to look at the Kona Hei Hei 2-9 as well. Same chainstay length as the Titus, so might be comparable in the wheelbase department. I'd have to measure mine to see. I'm on a 20" frame.

  40. #40
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    Wink No more short travel 29ers give 150mm ones.

    why didn't they mate the rear suspension with the front 120mm fork? They could have made the rear 120mm as well, and they didn't! what a shame. I thought that years like trying first low budget 29ers are behind us and long travel will emerge.

  41. #41
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    .......
    Last edited by Lugboot; 06-18-2008 at 10:45 AM. Reason: redundant

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nater
    Manufacturer's weights?

    I don't know this for sure, but it could account for the difference...

    Voodoo is weighed without shock and Salsa is weighed with?
    That would certainly account for the difference. Anyone have a "real" weight for a Canzo frame for comparison?
    "No good deed goes unpunished"

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidcopperfield
    why didn't they mate the rear suspension with the front 120mm fork? They could have made the rear 120mm as well, and they didn't! what a shame. I thought that years like trying first low budget 29ers are behind us and long travel will emerge.

    who wants to smack him this time?
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  44. #44
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    Hey Chequam, saw all the pix in your other post, but how about some feedback on the bikes??
    ...every day sends future to past...

  45. #45
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    Looks like a winner.

  46. #46
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    Anxious to see one out on the trails and give one a ride.
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  47. #47

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    I'm wondering if the price point is taking into account the rumoured bike industry inflation?

  48. #48
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    Thru axle is coming too.

    I forgot to mention that the Big Mama will also be getting a Maxle rear drop out option in the future. It is in developement right now. That with the new Reba/Manitou thru axle stuff should make for a rig with superior tracking abilities for folks "on the beefy side of Clyde", if'n ya know what I mean.
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  49. #49
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    Props to Salsa for a nicely detailed spec sheet. Nice bike too.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by xjbebop
    Hey Chequam, saw all the pix in your other post, but how about some feedback on the bikes??

    It is a great bike at a great price point. The ride was balanced well. All the bits were very well thought out and made very nicely. At the price, it beats out many others in the cost vs quality race, and I would put it up against many of the current top models.

    I wasnt at the meeting that GT was at, so I dont know if they threw out an MSRP, but based on pricing I have heard, it should be around $1600.
    Tires for real rides: www.terrenetires.com

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach417
    That would certainly account for the difference. Anyone have a "real" weight for a Canzo frame for comparison?
    my small Canzo frame with shock, seatpost clamp, and headset cups (CK) was 2830g on a very accurate scale. That's 6.23 lbs if my math is correct...
    never ever trust advertised weights!

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    I forgot to mention that the Big Mama will also be getting a Maxle rear drop out option in the future. It is in developement right now. That with the new Reba/Manitou thru axle stuff should make for a rig with superior tracking abilities for folks "on the beefy side of Clyde", if'n ya know what I mean.
    That's going to be an amazing development for all of us, I suspect. And honestly, this bike is a great riding dualie. It's going to surprise a lot of people with the way it climbs, descends and just flat out hauls butt in all conditions.

    Hope to see you this weekend Guitar Ted!

    Cheers,
    MG
    I like bikes

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidcopperfield
    why didn't they mate the rear suspension with the front 120mm fork? They could have made the rear 120mm as well, and they didn't! what a shame. I thought that years like trying first low budget 29ers are behind us and long travel will emerge.
    You're right. A 5" travel 29er would have been more appealing.

  54. #54
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    Some thoughts and answers

    Hey folks, we are back in Minneapolis after 3 glorious days of riding in the north woods. I'll be writing up that story another time. Right now I'm trying to recover and answer a few more questions before I take some media folks out for a ride on our local trails.

    Before I move to questions though, I just want to give props to CAMBA folks (Chequamagon). Wow! We rode some sweet sweet trails that had a little bit of everything. If you've been thinking about the CAMBA area, you should go.

    OK...Here goes. I'll do my best to answer the questions put forth here. I'm sure I'll forget some. I'll try to be brief.

    Design intent - Performance, reliability, durability. We set out to build an all day trail riding bike. It does just that really, really well. I've now ridden this bike with several of the forum members such as Aqua, Mikesee, MG, GT, Burner, Whafe, Chequamagon, and others in several different states (MN, WI, IA, CO, UT, & CA). This bike is comfy all day. It flat out rips too.

    Weight - This bike is going to get ridden hard. Our intent with the parts spec was not to build a super light XC style "Race" bike. The complete bike spec is a combination of parts that work...And work a long time. There are tons of places to save weight. Just look at the wheels, bars and tires and you can easily drop over a pound without even trying. If you want to build a light one, buy a frame and carefully pick your parts. I've got mine at 27lbs with pedals. That's the bike I ride with my fast guy friends.

    Price - Frames will be $1435-1500 MSRP. Bikes will be $3800-4000. Could we have built a sub $1000 frameset. Sure, but it wouldn't have all the features and details. It also wouldn't have 7 different forged parts per frame or met our criteria. In the end, it would not be a bike that we wanted to ride.

    FOX FORK - The final production color on the fork is black. GT, sorry we/I did not call that out to you. I have no idea about aftermarket stuff. I just know I spec'd black.

    Geometry - I knew our final geo, or at least some of the details, would turn off some and appeal to others at the same time. Our intent was to build a bike that was comfy and capable in trail conditions all day. My only point of caution to those calling out specific things is to remember that looking at, or isolating, any one dimension doesn't tell the whole story. I understand that you might not like certain parts about it. That's OK. As we add more dealers and do more demo events, I encourage you to ride it. It just might surprise you.

    Flex in the stays - It's minimal. However, consider this, your fork leg stanchions, and in some cases your handlebars probably move 5 mm fore/aft or up/down. I understand this fear, but I'd also offer feedback that some parts already mounted to your bike might already be moving the same or even more than this.

    Pivotless - Yes others have tried using designs such as this. Some don't any more (TREK) and others still do. I am not going to comment on other mfg's, but I will say ours works really, really well. The combination of geometry, forged parts, shock stroke, low leverage ratio, tubing, etc make our bike work.

    Travel - We settled at 100mm's because that is what offered the best over all feel for an all day trail riding bike.

    Endurance Bike - I personally think this would be a fantastic 12/24 hour bike.

    Anyway, I can't remember all the other questions. Keep them coming, I'll do my best to answer.

    Jason
    Salsa Crew
    Adventure by Bike

    Check out our blog!

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salsa Cycles
    Hey folks, we are back in Minneapolis after 3 glorious days of riding in the north woods. I'll be writing up that story another time. Right now I'm trying to recover and answer a few more questions before I take some media folks out for a ride on our local trails.

    Before I move to questions though, I just want to give props to CAMBA folks (Chequamagon). Wow! We rode some sweet sweet trails that had a little bit of everything. If you've been thinking about the CAMBA area, you should go.

    OK...Here goes. I'll do my best to answer the questions put forth here. I'm sure I'll forget some. I'll try to be brief.

    Design intent - Performance, reliability, durability. We set out to build an all day trail riding bike. It does just that really, really well. I've now ridden this bike with several of the forum members such as Aqua, Mikesee, MG, GT, Burner, Whafe, Chequamagon, and others in several different states (MN, WI, IA, CO, UT, & CA). This bike is comfy all day. It flat out rips too.

    Weight - This bike is going to get ridden hard. Our intent with the parts spec was not to build a super light XC style "Race" bike. The complete bike spec is a combination of parts that work...And work a long time. There are tons of places to save weight. Just look at the wheels, bars and tires and you can easily drop over a pound without even trying. If you want to build a light one, buy a frame and carefully pick your parts. I've got mine at 27lbs with pedals. That's the bike I ride with my fast guy friends.

    Price - Frames will be $1435-1500 MSRP. Bikes will be $3800-4000. Could we have built a sub $1000 frameset. Sure, but it wouldn't have all the features and details. It also wouldn't have 7 different forged parts per frame or met our criteria. In the end, it would not be a bike that we wanted to ride.

    FOX FORK - The final production color on the fork is black. GT, sorry we/I did not call that out to you. I have no idea about aftermarket stuff. I just know I spec'd black.

    Geometry - I knew our final geo, or at least some of the details, would turn off some and appeal to others at the same time. Our intent was to build a bike that was comfy and capable in trail conditions all day. My only point of caution to those calling out specific things is to remember that looking at, or isolating, any one dimension doesn't tell the whole story. I understand that you might not like certain parts about it. That's OK. As we add more dealers and do more demo events, I encourage you to ride it. It just might surprise you.

    Flex in the stays - It's minimal. However, consider this, your fork leg stanchions, and in some cases your handlebars probably move 5 mm fore/aft or up/down. I understand this fear, but I'd also offer feedback that some parts already mounted to your bike might already be moving the same or even more than this.

    Pivotless - Yes others have tried using designs such as this. Some don't any more (TREK) and others still do. I am not going to comment on other mfg's, but I will say ours works really, really well. The combination of geometry, forged parts, shock stroke, low leverage ratio, tubing, etc make our bike work.

    Travel - We settled at 100mm's because that is what offered the best over all feel for an all day trail riding bike.

    Endurance Bike - I personally think this would be a fantastic 12/24 hour bike.

    Anyway, I can't remember all the other questions. Keep them coming, I'll do my best to answer.

    Jason
    Salsa Crew
    Welcome back to the "real world" my friend, and congratulations on two fine new additions to the Salsa line. You guys have been working hard since I last saw the prototypes!! You weren't kidding when you told me you were burnin' the midnight oil on this thing, and it shows in the level of detail you put into it.

    Your comments on the flex in the stays is a good one too. Considering you have no problems with breakage on the Dos Niner, and given the cool things the flex stays allowed you to do in terms of damper/platform tuning, I don't question your use of them at all. In fact, when I first saw them on prototype #2, they immediately made sense to me -- no explanation needed. But after you told me the full extent of what you were doing with them, I was even more sold on why you were using 'em. I suspect the only people that would dislike them are those who don't understand their function in the system...

    I've said it before, and I'll say it again... I can't wait for the first time I get to toe the line at a 24 hour solo event with a Big Mama. I think it's gonna' be the perfect steed to do the deed!
    I like bikes

  56. #56
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    Nice job on the new steed Jason! Based on what I saw when you brought that bike to SoCal...this bike should be a home run. Lot's of really nice, well thought out details!
    What the EFF is "All MOUNTAIN"???

  57. #57
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    Sweet!

    Quote Originally Posted by Salsa Cycles
    Endurance Bike - I personally think this would be a fantastic 12/24 hour bike.
    That's all you had to say!

    I'm with MG, can't wait to roll this one at a Solo soon. Especially in the terrain we have here in the mountains of PA and WV.

    Nice bunch of question answering J.

    Thanks.

    j
    Former XXC Mag publisher (re)turned amateur bike blogger at The Soiled Chamois.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    Once I found out what that measurement was, (after I rode it) I was astounded. Really......I couldn't believe it!
    that is not possible...the total toolz of mtbr who are so naive as to only worry about what is on paper find it impossible. God forbid somebody around this retarded forum actually RIDE a bike to see how it RIDES as opposed to combining their mental masturbation and pontification skillz to do so

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salsa Cycles
    In the end, it would not be a bike that we wanted to ride.

    ...calling out specific things is to remember that looking at, or isolating, any one dimension doesn't tell the whole story.
    Amen brutha! I am SO glad its you building bikes and not the average 29er board mental patient who would make a bike without chainstays if they could.

    My only complaint is that I am offended by your post...you mention that stupid effwad Aqua as somebody you rode with but you neglected to mention by name the most highly regarded MTBR contributor you rode with

  60. #60
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    Funny

    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    Amen brutha! I am SO glad its you building bikes and not the average 29er board mental patient who would make a bike without chainstays if they could.

    My only complaint is that I am offended by your post...you mention that stupid effwad Aqua as somebody you rode with but you neglected to mention by name the most highly regarded MTBR contributor you rode with
    Fo, the reason I didn't mention you in the post was that I was saving your name for an official post. So....This specific post is an official Fo post.

    I enjoyed the ride so much with you that I made sure we made an orange bike. You rode your beautiful Ventana that day.

    I enjoyed our ride so much, the following day when I rode with Aqua and crew, I called him a few names that you taught me. It was fun. I had never name called before, so I learned a lot from you. Thanks.

    Anyway, sorry about not calling you out and including you. It was a great day for a ride wasn't it?

    Forever a Fo fan.

    Jason
    Salsa Crew
    Adventure by Bike

    Check out our blog!

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    God forbid somebody around this retarded forum actually RIDE a bike to see how it RIDES as opposed to combining their mental masturbation and pontification skillz to do so
    A++
    Tires for real rides: www.terrenetires.com

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salsa Cycles
    Fo, the reason I didn't mention you in the post was that I was saving your name for an official post. So....This specific post is an official Fo post.

    I enjoyed the ride so much with you that I made sure we made an orange bike. You rode your beautiful Ventana that day.

    I enjoyed our ride so much, the following day when I rode with Aqua and crew, I called him a few names that you taught me. It was fun. I had never name called before, so I learned a lot from you. Thanks.

    Anyway, sorry about not calling you out and including you. It was a great day for a ride wasn't it?

    Forever a Fo fan.

    Jason
    Salsa Crew
    lol...well, apology accepted


  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    lol...well, apology accepted
    well aren't you two cute...
    I like bikes

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgersib
    well aren't you two cute...
    jealous

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    jealous
    well of course...
    I like bikes

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