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  1. #1
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    best downcountry bike

    i'm looking at pulling the trigger on either the salsa spearfish or canyon neuron (aluminum models).
    Most of my rides will be light trail or gravel and possibly the true grit race next year..any suggestions.
    thanks.

  2. #2
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    Probably the Santa Cruz Tallboy. It's had that geo for the past three years and you can probably get a good deal on one.

  3. #3
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    just stop using the ridiculous "downcountry" marketing BS word.

    It's not a "new" category of bike. Just an invented word for something that's existed probably for decades.

  4. #4
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    Downcountry is of course an excellent term that puts a name to a type of bike that many people are interested in. Salsa use the term at the top of the page for the Spearfish.

    I can't tell you what components you like or what geo you like, and I can't compare the suspension of the bikes because the manufacturers don't publish it and linkagedesign.blogspot hasn't analyzed them.

  5. #5
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    So you want an XC bike?
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    So you want an XC bike?
    This.

    But make it poorly suited for 60% of the ride by adding Minion DHFs and making it weigh 29lbs.




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  7. #7
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    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/what-t...e-opinion.html

    BTW, Mike Levy casually dropped the term upcountry during a recent video while at the Taipei Bicycle Show😢.
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  8. #8
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    Wait.

    There's already "Frontcountry","Backcountry", "Sidecountry" "Downcountry" and now "Upcountry". When are we getting just "Country"? With rhinestones and Merican flags maybe?

  9. #9
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    In a BigCountry, dream to stay with you, live a lover's voice, across the mountain side.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  10. #10
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    I’m ok with the term Downcountry. It’s an xc bike that can still rip downhill. The Giant Trance 29 and the Santa Cruz Tallboy both do that.
    Can't keep track anymore - Giant, Santa Cruz, Pivot, Yeti, Norco, Salsa, Intense - if it rolls on dirt I like it

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott@GO-RIDE.com View Post
    I’m ok with the term Downcountry. It’s an xc bike that can still rip downhill. The Giant Trance 29 and the Santa Cruz Tallboy both do that.
    It's a stupid term. Some magazine writer came up with it and now marketing morons are falling over themselves to make sure they label their bikes with it, even though lots of bikes have been xc-capable, but also rip downhill, for many years without the stupid label.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott@GO-RIDE.com View Post
    I’m ok with the term Downcountry. It’s an xc bike that can still rip downhill. The Giant Trance 29 and the Santa Cruz Tallboy both do that.
    So basically, an XC bike?
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    It's a stupid term. Some magazine writer came up with it and now marketing morons are falling over themselves to make sure they label their bikes with it, even though lots of bikes have been xc-capable, but also rip downhill, for many years without the stupid label.
    I hope one day in the future we see through this Injustice and can just answer OPs question about bikes. Until then, I think this is a great and worthwhile discussion.



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  14. #14
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    OP, if most of your riding is gravel and light trail I'm not sure why you wouldn't go with a more xc oriented bike.

    I don't know much about the canyon, but check the max chain ring on both. Many bikes can only fit a 32, and you may find yourself spinning out a lot on non technical trail/road.

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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    So basically, an XC bike?
    Neither the tallboy or Trance 29er are really XC bikes.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by David R View Post
    Neither the tallboy or Trance 29er are really XC bikes.
    This is correct. They’re definitely “downcountry.” Wait....what were we talking abut it?

  17. #17
    Downcountry AF
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    Spearfish
    Rigid SS 29er
    SS 29+
    Fat Lefty
    SS cyclocross
    Full Sus 29er (Yuck)

    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by David R View Post
    Neither the tallboy or Trance 29er are really XC bikes.
    I think what you mean to say is that they are not XC race bikes. An XC bike goes up and down. The Tallboy and Trance 29er are most definitely XC bikes. Makes more sense to reserve the term "XC race" for just that...
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  19. #19
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    Downcountry is to XC what enduro is to _________.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by tfinator View Post
    i hope one day in the future we see through this injustice and can just answer ops question about bikes. Until then, i think this is a great and worthwhile discussion.



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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    It's a stupid term. Some magazine writer came up with it and now marketing morons are falling over themselves to make sure they label their bikes with it, even though lots of bikes have been xc-capable, but also rip downhill, for many years without the stupid label.
    Didn't realize we had a moron authority/police on board, but with 25000+ replies I guess you should know ?
    In the future you might/should google moron and American eugenics movement before you use that term.

  22. #22
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    ^^^Yikes. So theres xc race, trail and downhill. 3 is all I need. Or, 4" of travel, 5-6" of travel and more than that.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by noapathy View Post
    Downcountry is to XC what enduro is to _________.
    A: Trail

    Nailed it.

  24. #24
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    downcountry is a stupid term. back in the day we had XC bikes and DH bikes.

    Then we got All mountain bikes. Then trail bikes.

    Now we have
    XC bikes
    Downcountry bikes
    trail bikes
    all mountain bikes
    enduro bikes
    DH bikes

    Damn this is confusing.

    If a downcountry bike is an XC bike that can rip downhill than what is a trail bike? I thought trail was supposed to be mid travel? Little too heavy to race, but you could if you wanted to. Good for most places, but not for big air and super gnar.

    I am just going to start calling my Epic an All mountain bike since I ride it all over the Mtn. And my 5010 and Enduro Bike since I once did an enduro on it.
    Joe
    '18 Specialized Epic 29", Vassago Verhauen SS 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5", XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    I think what you mean to say is that they are not XC race bikes. An XC bike goes up and down.
    So my Endorphin is an XC bike, as is your RFX?

  26. #26
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    Hell yes, or is it Trailcountry or Downcross?
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  27. #27
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    Bike categories as I see it, in no particular order:

    Road, mtb, snow, bmx, city/hybrid, trailer/hauler, craigslist/garage, BSOs, cabin/barn, vintage/retro, collection.

    Then the terrain varies, so the possible permutations are ridiculous. How many words are there that describe snow? desert? forest? grasslands?

    All those to some multiplicative factorial exponent and bang a new age Shakespeare coins a term that could be hot for a second. Hey, I get it... it's 650b by the way and I'm serious. I will admit I like beefier XC and don't care what they call it for a hot minute.
    I don't know why,... it's just MUSS easier to pedal than the other ones.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    downcountry is a stupid term.
    ...
    "These things are very fancy commuter bikes or really bad dirt bikes, but they are not mountain bikes." - J. Mac

  29. #29
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    Yeah, it's a stupid term. Lets' just call it what it is: a bit more than most XC bikes as far as travel and geometry, but a bit less than heavier, burlier "trail" bikes. Yeah, that's a better way to describe. I just don't get why people get so uptight about a better way to describe a bike. And yes, there's some overlap, BFD.
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  30. #30
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    Yeah but ....

    The term is non sensical, sorta like asking for toilet paper that is soft enough for a baby’s butt and strong enough to not stick to you butt.

    Instead of a label, which defines nothing that we can agree to, why not just describe what you want in a bike, details about what you ride now and in the past, and describe the kind of riding you do.

    What’s really silly is all this ^^^ is exactly what posters will ask for and receive somewhere around page three 🙄

    Quote Originally Posted by tfinator View Post
    I hope one day in the future we see through this Injustice and can just answer OPs question about bikes. Until then, I think this is a great and worthwhile discussion.



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  31. #31
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    I think one of the reasons that most of us see this as stupid is because we have come to the realization that something with around 120mm of travel, + or - a bit, but at least 120 up front, works well for most riders. This has been squarely the "trail bike" segment, for years, but most riders want a bit more cush and strength than a pure XC race bike and they don't want a lumbering spongy enduro mess that is horrible to ride on anything but straight down stuff. So the trail bike IS the XC bike, that's what most of us think of as an "XC bike". The "downcountry" is the exact same thing, or in a few cases just slightly less rear travel, but some bikes have more travel and some have less, that doesn't move them way out of the category unless it's a radical change. + or -20mm isn't a radical change in my book, it's well within where a much better leverage curve and shock could make the bike with less travel ride better than the one with more travel. At some point, splitting hairs too far makes no sense, because there's literally no end to the madness, you can then assign categories by 5mm of travel. Is my 429 SL a "downcountry" bike when I put the longer-travel fork on it that I use for marathon and more general riding? Then does it become an "XC" bike again when I put the short travel fork on it with the lighter wheels? I just call it an "XC bike". Modern geometry, dropper posts, efficient designs, good suspension, makes these shorter travel bikes work very well, without having to call them "downcountry" IMO.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  32. #32
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    I like mountain bikes.

    Can't believe that nobody has ranted against gravel yet...or E-bikes.
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbhammercycle View Post
    Bike categories as I see it, in no particular order:

    Road, mtb, snow, bmx, city/hybrid, trailer/hauler, craigslist/garage, BSOs, cabin/barn, vintage/retro, collection.

    Then the terrain varies, so the possible permutations are ridiculous. How many words are there that describe snow? desert? forest? grasslands?

    All those to some multiplicative factorial exponent and bang a new age Shakespeare coins a term that could be hot for a second. Hey, I get it... it's 650b by the way and I'm serious. I will admit I like beefier XC and don't care what they call it for a hot minute.
    reminds me of those rock band name generators....

    now we have bike style generators:

    take a name from list A: Road, mtb, snow, bmx, city/hybrid, trailer/hauler, craigslist/garage, BSOs, cabin/barn, vintage/retro, collection

    then one from list B: snow, desert, forest, grasslands,

    and a riding style from list C: downhill; XC; free style; dirt jump; park; enduro; bike packing; gravel; flat land;

    randomly generate and viola!!! new marketable bike world!!!

    I thought downcountry was more of a regional description...like from Britain or Australia, of single track riding...
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  34. #34
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    Yup, silly labels, not just problem in mountain biking, seems to be a ‘merican obsession.

    What’s my name? Rumpled bed clothes 🙄

    Fir the OP, cuz you really had no idea the can o’ shite you were opening up:

    5010
    Signal Peak
    Trail Pistol
    Ripley
    429

    Every mfg has one, geo varies widely depending on which way you lean and how much you want to spend.

    Not one of these bikes sucks.

    Best bang for the buck: Signal Peak
    Best for trail ripping: Trail Pistol
    Best ride quality: Ripley LT or 429 Trail
    Best all around: hmmmm, 5010 or any of the above
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  35. #35
    This place needs an enema
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    I'd have checked in here sooner but I was busy adjusting the kinematics on my slopeduro "whip".

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Hell yes, or is it Trailcountry or Downcross?
    Crossduro I think.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post

    Fir the OP, cuz you really had no idea the can o’ shite you were opening up:

    5010
    Signal Peak
    Trail Pistol
    Ripley
    429

    Every mfg has one, geo varies widely depending on which way you lean and how much you want to spend.

    Not one of these bikes sucks.

    Best bang for the buck: Signal Peak
    Best for trail ripping: Trail Pistol
    Best ride quality: Ripley LT or 429 Trail
    Best all around: hmmmm, 5010 or any of the above
    O man...the language police were just getting warmed up, and you had to go and do that
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  38. #38
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    So are ebikes slackcountry?
    Riding: '91 Carbon Epic Stumpjumper w/1" Slicks and a Rack on the Back

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    downcountry is a stupid term. back in the day we had XC bikes and DH bikes.

    Then we got All mountain bikes. Then trail bikes.

    Now we have
    XC bikes
    Downcountry bikes
    trail bikes
    all mountain bikes
    enduro bikes
    DH bikes

    Damn this is confusing.

    If a downcountry bike is an XC bike that can rip downhill than what is a trail bike? I thought trail was supposed to be mid travel? Little too heavy to race, but you could if you wanted to. Good for most places, but not for big air and super gnar.

    I am just going to start calling my Epic an All mountain bike since I ride it all over the Mtn. And my 5010 and Enduro Bike since I once did an enduro on it.
    You forgot

    Freeride bikes
    Dirt jump bikes
    Slopestyle bikes
    4X bikes
    Monstercross bikes
    Ragley Big Wig, Sunday Soundwave (BMX), Nashbar CXSS (workout)

  40. #40
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    To address the OP, if you are just light trail and gravel why are you looking at "downcountry" bikes? Wouldn't a gravel or XC hardtail make more sense...
    Ragley Big Wig, Sunday Soundwave (BMX), Nashbar CXSS (workout)

  41. #41
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    Is my old-ish memory getting foggy, or did we used to have simply XC and XCM bikes?

    "M" for marathon.

    Worked for me.
    Whining is not a strategy.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by epicrides234 View Post
    Most of my rides will be light trail or gravel and possibly the true grit race next year..any suggestions.
    thanks.
    Based on what you are using it for I think Downcountry would be too much bike. You should look at Down Gravel bikes.
    Safe riding,

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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by David R View Post
    Crossduro I think.
    Is that riding enduro events on a cyclocross bike?
    Joe
    '18 Specialized Epic 29", Vassago Verhauen SS 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5", XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  44. #44
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    hmm I think the OP moved to Downcountry, you guys scared the crap of him/her.
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  45. #45
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    Down country, so basically riding flat ground?

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Train Wreck View Post
    Down country, so basically riding flat ground?
    Yes, but down
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  47. #47
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    which country?


  48. #48
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    I dig the slopestyle biking, and slopeduro sounds intriguing.


    I lean more towards slopstyle.

    plus everything Nurse Ben said.
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  49. #49
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    "An XC bike that rips on the downhill"? I thought that was a called "a good rider".

  50. #50
    WTF is downcountry?
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    Where did he get the downcountry term from tho? I get what kind of bike it's supposed to be, smells like a trail bike to me, but what the hell does that term even mean?

  51. #51
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    It's all explained in the link I provided. Anyone who takes the time to read it will get the joke. Others will just get upset.

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  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    I'd have checked in here sooner but I was busy adjusting the kinematics on my slopeduro "whip".
    Is that the plus or super boost version?

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    I'd have checked in here sooner but I was busy adjusting the kinematics on my slopeduro "whip".
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  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by dir-T View Post
    "An XC bike that rips on the downhill"? I thought that was a called "a good rider".
    No waay dude, its all about the equipment!. I read, on the internutz, that fatter tires and full suspension make the trail easier.

    Some posters said it made mountain biking so boring that they had to flatten their tires and take off their seat just to bring back the thrills.

    I'm worried, my tires are kinda fat ... and damn, no seat, wow, that is like so core!!
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  55. #55
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    Down country bikes are what used to be called marathon XC bikes.

    Put a 120 fox 34 on almost any XC bike with a sub 70 degree head tube and add a carbon dropper and go party.

    People who have been doing this for years:
    Rocky Mountain, pivot, (old trek Fuel)

    Epic Evo
    Blue TR
    Sb100 (little heavy)
    Etc etc.


    All of these bikes are not quite what the old “trail” bikes were and come in a couple pounds lighter. Geometry probably Makes them a little better than an old 120/120 “trail bike.”

    Stupid name though.


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  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by FJSnoozer View Post
    Down country bikes are what used to be called marathon XC bikes.
    Where did you learn this history trivia?

    Put a 120 fox 34 on almost any XC bike with a sub 70 degree head tube and add a carbon dropper and go party.
    So it's not downcountry if it's not a carbon dropper?

    This clears things up a little.
    Rigid SS 29er
    SS 29+
    Fat Lefty
    SS cyclocross
    Full Sus 29er (Yuck)

    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  57. #57
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    best downcountry bike

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott@GO-RIDE.com View Post
    I’m ok with the term Downcountry. It’s an xc bike that can still rip downhill. The Giant Trance 29 and the Santa Cruz Tallboy both do that.
    No, those are Fing Trail Bikes and I would race enduro on them.
    o_0

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    Last edited by FJSnoozer; 4 Weeks Ago at 05:05 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    Where did you learn this history trivia?



    So it's not downcountry if it's not a carbon dropper?

    This clears things up a little.
    Facts.


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  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by FJSnoozer View Post
    Facts.
    Good to know, there's a lack of that lately, so many opinions.
    Rigid SS 29er
    SS 29+
    Fat Lefty
    SS cyclocross
    Full Sus 29er (Yuck)

    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

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    best downcountry bike

    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    Good to know, there's a lack of that lately, so many opinions.
    “Marathon”

    Previous marketing term for the same thing.

    Source: 2008?-2016

    The other was a recommendation “add a 34 and carbon dropper to your XC bike and go party. “

    Source: Me and many who came before me.

    I prefer the feel of an XC bike but like to party.


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  61. #61
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    Eh, I call my Hei Hei "modern XC" or my "endurance racing bike", which it's both. With pretty short chainstays for an XC bike, 430mm, and a 68 degree HTA it's fast but also fun.

    It also happens to be the right tool for the job for a guy that's 215lbs geared up. No interest in a 100mm Fox 32 SC, I assure you the 34 is not slowing me down, and way more fun and confidence inspiring when I'm riding for fun, which is 95% of the time.
    Rigid SS 29er
    SS 29+
    Fat Lefty
    SS cyclocross
    Full Sus 29er (Yuck)

    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by BmanInTheD View Post
    Yeah, it's a stupid term. Lets' just call it what it is: a bit more than most XC bikes as far as travel and geometry, but a bit less than heavier, burlier "trail" bikes. Yeah, that's a better way to describe. I just don't get why people get so uptight about a better way to describe a bike. And yes, there's some overlap, BFD.
    why would you want a bit more travel and geometry if you're just riding gravel and light trails? and why the hell do you need rear suspension for gravel roads?

    i'm confused...

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by FJSnoozer View Post
    “Marathon”

    Previous marketing term for the same thing.

    Source: 2008?-2016

    The other was a recommendation “add a 34 and carbon dropper to your XC bike and go party. “

    Source: Me and many who came before me.

    I prefer the feel of an XC bike but like to party.


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  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    In a BigCountry, dream to stay with you, live a lover's voice, across the mountain side.
    Stay alive!

  65. #65
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    I think the original question was "what is the best INSERT MARKETING TERM bike"?

    The answer to that is there is no such thing as a "best bike". There are trade offs to be made that will determine if a specific bike is what you really want, but there are lots of great bikes available.

    Regarding the Downcountry vs XC, it is marketing get over it. Manufacturers are here to sell you stuff. I know this is evil and bad and all marketing people should be sent to the lowest levels of he!!, but hey we have to have a balance in good and evil and everyone plays their part.

    Really though, the marketing teams are trying to convey that this is not some fragile XC whippet. These bikes share a lot of DNA with XC bikes, but they have non weight weenie parts like real tires you won't flat in your driveway and bars that weren't originally sold in 1989.

    XC bike sales are suffering in the age of Enduro, so if you are responsible for say the Epic line at Specialized how to you gain that market share back? You make concessions to how people's tastes have changed. The large majority of people no longer want a duplicate of their favorite XC racer's setup. Now they want to go deeper into rougher terrain. As a product management/marketing organization you have to be able to confer the intended use case as simply as possible, hence when said person on PB said "Downcountry" jokingly the bike companies jumped on it. Insert evil conspiracy by companies that are in the business of making a profit sitting around a table coming up with ridiculous terms just to piss off us dedicated, hard core riders that spend our company's time (which they are paying us for) to discuss the relative positives and negatives of said marketing term.

    Yes I did type this while on a conference call...

    BTW obviously this marketing is working because there are 90+ responses to this thread about Downcountry bikes. There is no such thing as negative press...

  66. #66
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    I still don't know what's going on. Can we start over?

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    Hi. New here. I just had to do it.

  68. #68
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    exiting stage left...

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    This is Mountain Biking, there can be no new standards, no new suspension fork designs, no new electronic shifting, no new carbon rim designs and especially no new new terms.

    This sport is not allowed to evolve because of course that is just marketing.

    New words or names are especially marketing. Everyone knows once you name something it can never evolve or change. That’s why all rock music (classic, southern, grunge, punk, prog, metal, glam, speed, acid, alternative, art, Britpop, emo, garage, goth, indie, psychedelic, new wave, stoner, shoegazer, surf and thrash) are perfectly summed up with the one phrase Rock and Roll.

    It is in no way the natural evolution of a sport fuelled by technological changes that enables increasingly niche ways to use a product that was once basic and mass.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPenquinn View Post
    This sport is not allowed to evolve because of course that is just marketing.

    You've got it the wrong way around. No one is complaining about the evolution of the sport. The problem people are pointing out here -- in increasingly rich ways -- is that marketing is trying to co-opt said evolution and rebrand it for the sake of itself. For the sake of selling more bikes, or parts, or whatever.

    The evolution of the sport isn't in question. At least not here in this thread.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by downcountry View Post
    Hi. New here. I just had to do it.
    Well played, sir!!!
    Whining is not a strategy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    You've got it the wrong way around. No one is complaining about the evolution of the sport. The problem people are pointing out here -- in increasingly rich ways -- is that marketing is trying to co-opt said evolution and rebrand it for the sake of itself. For the sake of selling more bikes, or parts, or whatever.

    The evolution of the sport isn't in question. At least not here in this thread.
    It is not an accident of fate that you and everyone else is characterized as a consumer... The question is ?
    Who gets the last bite...?
    https://www.pinterest.com/5ksboomer/vintage-bike-ads/

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by kosmo View Post
    Well played, sir!!!
    Yeah, but who deserves the green chiclet? Or are you talking to yourself?

  74. #74
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    I rode my Knolly Endorphin downcountry to the inlaws in Illinois on gravel paths, then upcountry on the way home. When I got to Wisconsin I did some crosscountry (east-west) on old railroad grade to some single track and went trail riding. On the twisty downs, it seemed quicker to make the bike ride like an enduro, so I just ignored the trail and blew corners to make them straight. On the way home, there was a stretch of road to get back to my house. I wasn't sure if the bike would classify as road, so I called my wife and she came to get me. Overall a good long ride, but pretty sure I broke some commandments in there. I'm sorry to anyone who saw me and wondered WTF is this guy doing riding that "type" of bike there. I'm not sure where I can ride anymore that is proper for this bike.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by sherwin24 View Post
    I rode my Knolly Endorphin downcountry...

    We can thusly shut down the internet for the rest of today, because you win...

  76. #76
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    When I was a kid, I used to walk upcountry to school AND back, in waist deep snow!

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    I think the original question was "what is the best INSERT MARKETING TERM bike"?

    The answer to that is there is no such thing as a "best bike". There are trade offs to be made that will determine if a specific bike is what you really want, but there are lots of great bikes available.

    Regarding the Downcountry vs XC, it is marketing get over it. Manufacturers are here to sell you stuff. I know this is evil and bad and all marketing people should be sent to the lowest levels of he!!, but hey we have to have a balance in good and evil and everyone plays their part.

    Really though, the marketing teams are trying to convey that this is not some fragile XC whippet. These bikes share a lot of DNA with XC bikes, but they have non weight weenie parts like real tires you won't flat in your driveway and bars that weren't originally sold in 1989.

    XC bike sales are suffering in the age of Enduro, so if you are responsible for say the Epic line at Specialized how to you gain that market share back? You make concessions to how people's tastes have changed. The large majority of people no longer want a duplicate of their favorite XC racer's setup. Now they want to go deeper into rougher terrain. As a product management/marketing organization you have to be able to confer the intended use case as simply as possible, hence when said person on PB said "Downcountry" jokingly the bike companies jumped on it. Insert evil conspiracy by companies that are in the business of making a profit sitting around a table coming up with ridiculous terms just to piss off us dedicated, hard core riders that spend our company's time (which they are paying us for) to discuss the relative positives and negatives of said marketing term.

    Yes I did type this while on a conference call...

    BTW obviously this marketing is working because there are 90+ responses to this thread about Downcountry bikes. There is no such thing as negative press...
    Or you could have just saved all those paragraphs and said: “trail bike”.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  78. #78
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    I just ride my bike, its red
    always mad and usually drunk......

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by UpTheAnte View Post
    It is not an accident of fate that you and everyone else is characterized as a consumer... The question is ?
    Who gets the last bite...?
    https://www.pinterest.com/5ksboomer/vintage-bike-ads/
    The irony of you posting a Pinterest link and complaining about marketing.

    If you don't pay for the product you are the product.

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  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    I

    Or you could have just saved all those paragraphs and said: “trail bike”.
    How about just bike? Why differentiate between mountain bikes, road bikes, BMX bikes, or beach cruisers.

    Maybe we should just use the term vehicle? Cars, trucks, trains, bikes, etc are all just different forms of transportation.

    Wait just use transportation because we need to lump planes, helicopters, and rockets into this as well. They also transport people.

    It can go either way...

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  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    The irony of you posting a Pinterest link and complaining about marketing.

    If you don't pay for the product you are the product.
    The real irony is your name. You think you're the one doing the selling, but really you're the one being punked.

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmg View Post
    I just ride my bike, its red
    me too...mine is green
    Go practice. Figure it out. - Fleas

    15 Surly Krampus - King Amongst Bikes
    LET IT SNOW!

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSU Alum View Post
    When I was a kid, I used to walk upcountry to school AND back, in waist deep snow!
    did you have to pay your teachers to beat you? We had to do that as well....
    Go practice. Figure it out. - Fleas

    15 Surly Krampus - King Amongst Bikes
    LET IT SNOW!

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by str8edgMTBMXer View Post
    did you have to pay your teachers to beat you? We had to do that as well....
    You had MONEY?

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSU Alum View Post
    You had MONEY?
    not after a full winter and school year

    did get a full quarter for mowing my grandparents 2 acre lot...
    Go practice. Figure it out. - Fleas

    15 Surly Krampus - King Amongst Bikes
    LET IT SNOW!

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by str8edgMTBMXer View Post
    not after a full winter and school year

    did get a full quarter for mowing my grandparents 2 acre lot...
    Your grandparents had a lawnmower????

    thats some old money there
    always mad and usually drunk......

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by noapathy View Post
    The real irony is your name. You think you're the one doing the selling, but really you're the one being punked.
    Oh burn!

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  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmg View Post
    I just ride my bike, its red
    Quote Originally Posted by str8edgMTBMXer View Post
    me too...mine is green
    At least one of you bought a fast bike!

  89. #89
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    First off, on these forums the launch of any new idea or term most often results in a select group of people bitching and moaning about literally every new innovation. All of these innovations appear to be:

    - just another way to make bikes more expensive
    - unneeded toys for dentists
    - more unneeded complexity
    - unsound engineering according to them (usually not an engineer)
    - some version of “marketing”


    Not sure how people think marketing actually works, but it is incredibly hard to make anyone remember or adopt anything. The idea that you can just shove stuff down people’s throats couldn’t be more wrong. Marketing only works (especially now) when it is adopted by your audience. Its about creating markets.

    Part of the evolution of the sport is the culture of the sport.

    Seems to me, what is obvious and not in any way marketing (its identity), is that there’s a group of riders that don’t feel the traditional term XC fits the type of riding they do, the type of bike they are riding and their identity of themselves. So they are creating terminology that they feel better explains them, their bikes and the riding they do.

    These new terms have happened and will continue to happen.People are looking for ways to encapsulate an idea or mindset. Some stick, some change, some go away. Culture, like tech evolves.

    When Mountain Biking stops getting new sub-cultures we should all start to worry because that is the sign of a sick industry. That’s why I brought up music. Most rock is musically similar, except we all know that culturally it is not.

    The reality is, new tech, new ideas, new words, new genres, new sub-groups is proof of a vibrant scene, not marketing.

    You know what will kill Mountain Biking, tradition and stagnation. As long as it is morphing and adopting new tech and culture, it will be have a future.

    If you recoil from the term Downcountry, don’t worry, its not likely describing you. You can just say XC, or MTBer, or that you ride bikes in the woods. Some people wont like the term and some people (like the OP) will adopt it. Time will tell if it sticks.



    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    You've got it the wrong way around. No one is complaining about the evolution of the sport. The problem people are pointing out here -- in increasingly rich ways -- is that marketing is trying to co-opt said evolution and rebrand it for the sake of itself. For the sake of selling more bikes, or parts, or whatever.

    The evolution of the sport isn't in question. At least not here in this thread.

  90. #90
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    I for some reason read this thread now have to realy think about my singature ...dam you people I am smart guy but mind blown.

    As far as downcountry,... I have a downcountry bike and seriously looking to unload so If anyone wants to buy a Medium 2016 Niner Jet 9 RDO with Fox factory 34 120mm, XTR/XX1 combo, i9 trail24 wheels. Needs a new shock bushing and maybe rear wheel bearing let me know. Has its far share of been ridden hard marks, plenty of life left in it though
    XC, Road, XXC, Endurance, Mtn, All-Mtn, Cross, Gravel, just go have fun on 2 wheels!

  91. #91
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    What is the difference between XC and XXC? One more X equals more gnar?

    What is the difference between Mtn and All-Mtn? Does All-Mtn include an uphill pedal rather than a lift?

    I have no idea what I'm doin' anymore. The terms I grew up with have been replaced!
    I don't know why,... it's just MUSS easier to pedal than the other ones.

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPenquinn View Post
    there’s a group of riders that don’t feel the traditional term XC fits the type of riding they do, the type of bike they are riding and their identity of themselves. So they are creating terminology that they feel better explains them, their bikes and the riding they do.
    Do we need to create a safe space for them?
    By continuing to browse my posts, you agree to send me cookies.

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by HEMIjer View Post
    I for some reason read this thread now have to realy think about my singature ...dam you people I am smart guy but mind blown.

    As far as downcountry,... I have a downcountry bike and seriously looking to unload so If anyone wants to buy a Medium 2016 Niner Jet 9 RDO with Fox factory 34 120mm, XTR/XX1 combo, i9 trail24 wheels. Needs a new shock bushing and maybe rear wheel bearing let me know. Has its far share of been ridden hard marks, plenty of life left in it though
    Thats a 2016 bike, Downcountry was first invented in 2019, so its not an DC bike dude, shame really wouldve been worth a mint if it was DC
    always mad and usually drunk......

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    Tonight I will ride with my Thursday Night Crew, I don't know and don't care what type of bike they ride. All I know is that we will all have a great time, which is why we ride...

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    1. The answer to the OP's question is check out the new Ibis Ripley.

    2. Sometimes we come up with new names that, at first, feel weird but then are generally accepted to allow us to quickly understand what people mean when describing a bike without spending 5 minutes talking about angles, geometry, etc. Examples include cross country, all mountain, enduro, freeride, etc. Abotu 1.5 or two years ago when I was looking for a new bike, I wanted a relatively ilghtweight bike that had 120 to 130 mm of rear travel, max 66 headtube angle for 27.5 or max of 67 for a 29er, short chainstays. There were very few (especially in 29er format) bikes that fit the bill. Short travel but slack 29ers from Evil or Transition were out due to being basically built for people that lack to jump excessively and, as a result, weighed a ton despite the short travel. So long story short. Downcountry is good shorthand to describe a relatively new crop of bikes that aren't long travel or designed for massive drops/jumps but can handle very steep rollers a lot easier than a bike with a 69 or 71 degree head angle.
    Nothing but sincerity as far as the eye can see!

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    Do we need to create a safe space for them?
    They don’t need a safe space, they aren't the ones all bent out of shape.

    We didn’t need “safe spaces” for:

    - All mountain
    - Freeride
    - Gravity
    - Downhill
    - Enduro
    - Trail
    - Dirt jumper
    - Slopestyle
    - Bikepacking
    - Fatbike
    - Cross Country

    A Cross Country bike with geometry that makes it comfortable going Down Hill
    = Down County, simple enough to understand.

    -

  97. #97
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    I call mine a 'bike'.

    Never did figure out slopestyle.....

  98. #98
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    We must subdivide and conquer all bike riding!

    I miss when I was a kid and I'd just go "ride bikes"

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPenquinn View Post
    They don’t need a safe space, they aren't the ones all bent out of shape.

    We didn’t need “safe spaces” for:

    - All mountain
    - Freeride
    - Gravity
    - Downhill
    - Enduro
    - Trail
    - Dirt jumper
    - Slopestyle
    - Bikepacking
    - Fatbike
    - Cross Country

    A Cross Country bike with geometry that makes it comfortable going Down Hill
    = Down County, simple enough to understand.

    -
    Dude! Those categories are totally out of order. Plus you left out Fat e-trikes.
    Rigid SS 29er
    SS 29+
    Fat Lefty
    SS cyclocross
    Full Sus 29er (Yuck)

    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by sherwin24 View Post
    I rode my Knolly Endorphin downcountry to the inlaws in Illinois on gravel paths, then upcountry on the way home. When I got to Wisconsin I did some crosscountry (east-west) on old railroad grade to some single track and went trail riding. On the twisty downs, it seemed quicker to make the bike ride like an enduro, so I just ignored the trail and blew corners to make them straight. On the way home, there was a stretch of road to get back to my house. I wasn't sure if the bike would classify as road, so I called my wife and she came to get me. Overall a good long ride, but pretty sure I broke some commandments in there. I'm sorry to anyone who saw me and wondered WTF is this guy doing riding that "type" of bike there. I'm not sure where I can ride anymore that is proper for this bike.
    I feel ya (as is said by some).
    Imagine my confusion, riding my
    dc bike upcountry in Grand Junction next week, then upanddowncanyon
    In Moab the next. Has this ever been done before??

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