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  1. #1
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    Banshee Paradox Review

    So I had the chance to ride the new Paradox this weekend. Crazy Fred was kind enough to lend me his very blinged out personal ride! The bike did not disapoint!
    I really feel like I got a good chance to see what this bike is about. I was able to ride the bike at an area that I ride frequently with my present 29er. (El Mariachi, 80mm Reba) You gotta love CF! He gives me his bike, and says "Try it for a week"! Not your usual switch bikes for 20 minutes kind of demo. I felt no pressure to ride faster or slower or to ride unfamiliar terrain. Just me and the bike on trails that I know pretty well. (Re: New England rocks and roots.) I rode for about 2 1/2 hours on Sunday, and for about an hour on Monday. Here are my thoughts:

    The head angle is such a pleasure! Steep roots and rocks are no problem for this frame. It really is ideal for New England riding. I was wondering if the climbing would suffer with the Paradox. I had to adjust my technique a bit, but I felt as though the bike gives up nothing in that department. There are a couple of tweeks that I would make to have the bike fit me better, and then I think climbing would be every bit as good as a bike with a steeper HA.

    Another point worth mentioning while I am on the subject of climbing, is the short chain stays. You can really pull the front end up and on to roots and rocks. There is one section where I ride that is pretty rocky and steep. I was able to wheelie the front tire up and over a ledge that always stops me on the Mariachi. That really fired me up, and gave me that extra bit of mojo to make it to the top of the climb. Something I have never done on my hardtail.

    The way I see it is this: Climbing is more about technique. Desending is also about technique, but there is some stuff that I just am unwilling to roll down, or to decsend with my Mariachi. Odds are that I am going over the bars when I hit the bottom, and my 80mm fork just gets overwhelmed. So why wouldnt I want a Paradox? I give up nothing in the climbing department, and I get to go down stuff that I otherwise would not be able to do. In addition, 500 ish bux is a deal! Especially since that includes the post, collar and touch up paint! I dont think anybody else is making a frame with these specs. I think many other companies will get on the band wagon in the near future. I know that Sinister is coming out with something similar that Im sure will be great. However, at 850ish bux, I am leaning towards the Banshee.

    I took several pictures during my rides, but am having trouble posting them. I wanted to show you some of the rollers and ledges that are now doable for me on a hardtail 29er. I will try and get them up later.

    One possible concern to keep in mind is the max tire size that you can run with this frame. Fred has Spynergy Xyclones on there with Kenda Nevegal 2.0, and there is not a huge amount of room left. Those of you that are running Flows or Gordos with an even wider tire may have some trouble. I am not sure about that, as I have not tried it. You may want to check with Banshee on that.

    Bottom Line: 500 bux, 69 degree HA, Sub 17 CS, Banshee name on the downtube....I cant wait to have one of my very own!

    Thanks again Fred!

  2. #2
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    Wow, things sound all roses until you get down to tire clearance. That is a pretty f'in lame oversight on their part. Hey guys we have a great aggressive HT AM 29er check it out...

    ...oh, BTW you can't run any aggressive AM tires out back since they won't fit...

    Gah, genius I tell yah
    Quote Originally Posted by saturnine
    that's the stupidest idea this side of pinkbike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AL29er
    Wow, things sound all roses until you get down to tire clearance. That is a pretty f'in lame oversight on their part. Hey guys we have a great aggressive HT AM 29er check it out...

    ...oh, BTW you can't run any aggressive AM tires out back since they won't fit...

    Gah, genius I tell yah
    for reals? perhaps that explains the name: 'paradox'. An AM hardtail that can't be ridden on chunky terrain.

    i'd only be interested in this frame if it could handle a 2.35 rampage (or similar) in the rear. 2.0 nevegal is so skinny, i'd only use it to win the tour de france or for getting a latte at the local cafe.

    i hope there's more to this story. banshee can't be this clueless, can they?
    Originally posted by bucksaw87
    I still fail to see how mustaches, fixies, and PBR are ironic.

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    clearance

    I've got 28mm wide WTB rims on my Paradox and run 2.35 Rampages and 2.2 Nevegals. Clearance is NOT a problem at all. I will say its "tight" getting the wheel in and out of the dropout with the short chain stays, but lack of clearance is no issue. Much better than the clearance I've had on 2 other 29er frames. Is it big enough to slide a finger between the tire and chainstays? No - but that's what happens when you get sub 17 chain stays and 29in wheels
    Last edited by jayoutside; 09-08-2009 at 03:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by frorider
    i'd only be interested in this frame if it could handle a 2.35 rampage (or similar) in the rear. 2.0 nevegal is so skinny, i'd only use it to win the tour de france or for getting a latte at the local cafe.
    Nevegal only comes in 2.2 for the 29" version, and they are every bit as wide at a 2.35 Nevegal at the knobs.

    Banshee makes great bikes. Can't wait for their fully version.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

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    Jay at banshee runs 2.4" schwable tires... it is tight, but fits.
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    Good write up MBN. Now get those pics uploaded. I keep forgetting to get my P&S camera from my wife to take trail pics, not lugging my DSLR with me.

    CF and I are running 2.2 Nevegal's which are just as wide as 2.35 Rampages. We have no issues with tire clearance. Like MBN said you cannot get your fingers between the tire and chainstay but mud and small rocks seem to be no problem.

    Regards,
    Sane Fred
    The other Fred........

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reposado77
    Good write up MBN. Now get those pics uploaded. I keep forgetting to get my P&S camera from my wife to take trail pics, not lugging my DSLR with me.

    CF and I are running 2.2 Nevegal's which are just as wide as 2.35 Rampages. We have no issues with tire clearance. Like MBN said you cannot get your fingers between the tire and chainstay but mud and small rocks seem to be no problem.

    Regards,
    Sane Fred
    cool, figured as much. that 2.0 nevegal statement was the troubling one.
    Originally posted by bucksaw87
    I still fail to see how mustaches, fixies, and PBR are ironic.

  9. #9
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    Typo!

    My mistake guys! The tires are 2.2 Nevegals. I just put them up against my 2.35 Rampages, and they are just as wide. I was only trying to point out that if you had some pretty wide rims such as Gordos or maybe Flows with the new WTB's, that it might be tight fit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MBN
    So I had the chance to ride the new Paradox this weekend. Crazy Fred was kind enough to lend me his very blinged out personal ride! The bike did not disapoint!
    I really feel like I got a good chance to see what this bike is about. I was able to ride the bike at an area that I ride frequently with my present 29er. (El Mariachi, 80mm Reba) You gotta love CF! He gives me his bike, and says "Try it for a week"! Not your usual switch bikes for 20 minutes kind of demo. I felt no pressure to ride faster or slower or to ride unfamiliar terrain. Just me and the bike on trails that I know pretty well. (Re: New England rocks and roots.) I rode for about 2 1/2 hours on Sunday, and for about an hour on Monday. Here are my thoughts:

    The head angle is such a pleasure! Steep roots and rocks are no problem for this frame. It really is ideal for New England riding. I was wondering if the climbing would suffer with the Paradox. I had to adjust my technique a bit, but I felt as though the bike gives up nothing in that department. There are a couple of tweeks that I would make to have the bike fit me better, and then I think climbing would be every bit as good as a bike with a steeper HA.

    Another point worth mentioning while I am on the subject of climbing, is the short chain stays. You can really pull the front end up and on to roots and rocks. There is one section where I ride that is pretty rocky and steep. I was able to wheelie the front tire up and over a ledge that always stops me on the Mariachi. That really fired me up, and gave me that extra bit of mojo to make it to the top of the climb. Something I have never done on my hardtail.

    The way I see it is this: Climbing is more about technique. Desending is also about technique, but there is some stuff that I just am unwilling to roll down, or to decsend with my Mariachi. Odds are that I am going over the bars when I hit the bottom, and my 80mm fork just gets overwhelmed. So why wouldnt I want a Paradox? I give up nothing in the climbing department, and I get to go down stuff that I otherwise would not be able to do. In addition, 500 ish bux is a deal! Especially since that includes the post, collar and touch up paint! I dont think anybody else is making a frame with these specs. I think many other companies will get on the band wagon in the near future. I know that Sinister is coming out with something similar that Im sure will be great. However, at 850ish bux, I am leaning towards the Banshee.

    I took several pictures during my rides, but am having trouble posting them. I wanted to show you some of the rollers and ledges that are now doable for me on a hardtail 29er. I will try and get them up later.

    One possible concern to keep in mind is the max tire size that you can run with this frame. Fred has Spynergy Xyclones on there with Kenda Nevegal 2.0, and there is not a huge amount of room left. Those of you that are running Flows or Gordos with an even wider tire may have some trouble. I am not sure about that, as I have not tried it. You may want to check with Banshee on that.

    Bottom Line: 500 bux, 69 degree HA, Sub 17 CS, Banshee name on the downtube....I cant wait to have one of my very own!

    Thanks again Fred!

    I've been on my large Paradox for a bit over a week, and everything you say is true. I'm riding techy Western Mass singletrack and this frame has changed the way I ride. The slack geometry and short stays make for a super flickabe bike that charges over everything. It descends like wild and can be thrown into high speed corners with confidence. Climbing traction is excellent. I feel more confident riding this bike over and down sketchy and techy rocky maneuvers than I've ever felt riding an MTB - it really is that drastic and amazing. It's changed the way I read trail and pick lines. I'd never realized my previous bikes were that limiting, but compared to this bike, those bikes held me back and didn't inspire the technical riding confidence this frame delivers in spades! Just effing amazing!

    Regarding rear tire clearance: I'm running Ardents on Velocity Blunts, and clearance isn't an issue. Not tons of clearance, but totally acceptable and enough room for muck and trail debris for sure. NOT a deal breaker unless your running a Gordo and the largest tire available.


    So, when do we organize the Massachusetts Paradox ride? Freds, MBN??? Drop a PM if you're interested.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by AL29er
    Wow, things sound all roses until you get down to tire clearance. That is a pretty f'in lame oversight on their part. Hey guys we have a great aggressive HT AM 29er check it out...

    ...oh, BTW you can't run any aggressive AM tires out back since they won't fit...

    Gah, genius I tell yah
    dude, you sound so angry...and you do not wear it well. take it from me, you need to chillax the eff out. First of all he said he didnt know if it would fit. Do you have a beef with Banshee or what???

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride
    Jay at banshee runs 2.4" schwable tires... it is tight, but fits.
    and 2.4 Schwalbe is GINORMOUS...girly sidewalls, but huge

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    This thread needs pics in a bad way. Come on all you Mass guys - give up the pics!

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    Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by AL29er
    Wow, things sound all roses until you get down to tire clearance. That is a pretty f'in lame oversight on their part. Hey guys we have a great aggressive HT AM 29er check it out...

    ...oh, BTW you can't run any aggressive AM tires out back since they won't fit...

    Gah, genius I tell yah
    MBN Great job brother, you got everything out of me letting you borrow this bike that I wanted you to.( and then some ) It's just to bad there is ALWAYS one meatball who feels the need to flex their useless Internet muscle,(in this case there's two. ) I guess if I didn't own what MANY seem to be saying is the HOTTEST 29ER AM hardtail to date, I'd might come off like a [email protected] head to in order to feel better about myself.... I've had a lot of things going on in my life almost to the day my Banshee showed up..Even though I have been able to ride her, pictures and a much deserved great review has just not happened..Well I'll tell you this if I was able to express myself as well as MBN did here I would have pretty much said the same thing word for word...I've said this many times before, the only other thing I love more than bikes and riding is turning someone on to this sport, a new SICK bike,and of course and new hot trail..Well done MBN.....CF.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride
    Jay at banshee runs 2.4" schwable tires... it is tight, but fits.
    What width rim does he have?

    A curious 38mm Kris Holm/Rampage owner would like to know?
    "I ride to clear my head, my head is clearer when I'm riding SS. Therefore, I choose to ride SS."~ Fullrange Drew

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    It was on a WTB dual duty rim (28mm width)

    https://3.bp.blogspot.com/_bz1KS00TJ...DSCN0421sm.JPG
    Banshee Bikes Designer
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    Bwah ha ha Banshee fanboys up in arms

    Honestly nothing against Banshee. Quite the opposite. I have been watching the paradox come to life over the last 6-8mo. It peaks my interest because it is very similar to one of my favorite 26in AM hardtails, the SC Chameleon. It too had limited tire clearance, but you could cram a true 2.4 into it without issue.

    My comments were harsh. They were meant to be. Going into 2010 to design an aggressive trail bike that doesn't have clearance for a 2.3-2.4 (talking true size here folks) then that is a partial failure by design in my minds-eye. So the OP stated that a 2.0 tire barely fit. My comments matched that. If it clears a Nevegal 2.2 then I would say great. That is as much clearance as needed for the application. Not like anyone is going to need to run the new Kodiak tires on it. But it should have ample clearance for the current 2.4-2.55 XC/trail tires.
    Quote Originally Posted by saturnine
    that's the stupidest idea this side of pinkbike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by builttoride
    It was on a WTB dual duty rim (28mm width)
    Okay

    link doesn't work
    "I ride to clear my head, my head is clearer when I'm riding SS. Therefore, I choose to ride SS."~ Fullrange Drew

  19. #19
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    I recall that the Paradox frame does not have a tapered head tube, correct? This seems a bit odd given the trend toward tapered ST in all mtn forks (29er and 26er).

    I have two 29ers right now -- a steel rigid bike and a ti hardtail w/ 100 mm thru axle fork -- and if, hypothetically, i were to add a more AM-flavored 29er hardtail like the paradox, i would want the frame compatible with 120 or even 140 mm forks in the future that would use larger stanchions and a beefier crown / 1.5 lower ST.
    Originally posted by bucksaw87
    I still fail to see how mustaches, fixies, and PBR are ironic.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by frorider
    I recall that the Paradox frame does not have a tapered head tube, correct? This seems a bit odd given the trend toward tapered ST in all mtn forks (29er and 26er).

    I have two 29ers right now -- a steel rigid bike and a ti hardtail w/ 100 mm thru axle fork -- and if, hypothetically, i were to add a more AM-flavored 29er hardtail like the paradox, i would want the frame compatible with 120 or even 140 mm forks in the future that would use larger stanchions and a beefier crown / 1.5 lower ST.
    This is the companies first run/batch of frames - cut them some slack. Perhaps in future iterations/batches of the frame you'll get what you want.

  21. #21
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    There is tons of room for big tires.
    This is all AM bike and we'd not be that foolish to give little tire clearance.

    When we first made the bike we made sure it had enough clearance for big tires and my personal Paradox has the 2.3 WTB stouts in it with no problem and these tires seem as big as some 2.5s I've run on my 26" bikes.

    Like some wise dude said 10000 opinions aren't worth as much as 1 measurement.
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    now that's what i'm talking 'bout. picture is worth a 1000 words.

    this has been some good publicity for banshee. no doubt they told MBN to 'accidentally' refer to a 2.0 tire just to get some controversy started. oldest viral marketing trick in the book.
    Originally posted by bucksaw87
    I still fail to see how mustaches, fixies, and PBR are ironic.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by TerrorFirma
    There is tons of room for big tires.
    This is all AM bike and we'd not be that foolish to give little tire clearance.

    When we first made the bike we made sure it had enough clearance for big tires and my personal Paradox has the 2.3 WTB stouts in it with no problem and these tires seem as big as some 2.5s I've run on my 26" bikes.

    Like some wise dude said 10000 opinions aren't worth as much as 1 measurement.
    btw last month I was on a road trip to the PNW (my old stomping grounds) and at places like Galbraith i saw lots of hardtail riders...basically in two categories: the steel 29er guys, usually single speed, with a 4 inch thru axle fork and largish tires, and quite a few guys on Transition TransAm 26ers (geared and single speed). Since I was travelling I only had one bike w/ me (160 mm travel FS 26er, geared of course) but came away thinking it would be cool to have a short chainstay, slack and burly 29er hardtail that was Hammerschmidt-ready ie.. had horiz or slider dropouts, along the lines of the transam. all the advantages of a single speed, but w/ 2 gears. like JNC's custom hammerstickel.

    the only complaint people have about the rear dropout design of the transam is that it works best w/ 10 mm thru axle, or end bolt, rear hubs; to me that isn't really a complaint, since for an AM bike i'd want that type of rear hub anyway.

    perhaps Banshee is considering all the above in the next generation paradox, along w/ a tapered or 1.5 head tube.
    Originally posted by bucksaw87
    I still fail to see how mustaches, fixies, and PBR are ironic.

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    i read on the banshee blog some comments about tire / front der clearance:

    I know itís best to end on a positive note, but I already mentioned the good things. The only thing that concerned me with this frame is the front derailleur and tire clearance as I mentioned before. Check with Jay before your purchase, and keep your receipt in case you need to exchange for a different tire or derailleur. I wonder if an E type derailleur would have more clearance? Perhaps Shimanoís 2x9 SLX system would result in different derailleur arm positioning?

    Jay says - http://bansheebikes.blogspot.com/200...ox-update.html we have tried the biggest tire we could find and can confirm X9 works, 2010 X7, pre 2010 X7 if you donít run the fatest tire or if you do you donít mind cutting off the downpull arm, and Saint. Iím sure tho Shimano makes a couple more and iím looking into it
    Originally posted by bucksaw87
    I still fail to see how mustaches, fixies, and PBR are ironic.

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    Thread reply count going up, up ,up...

    [QUOTE=AL29er]

    My comments were harsh. They were meant to be. Going into 2010 to design an aggressive trail bike that doesn't have clearance for a 2.3-2.4 (talking true size here folks) then that is a partial failure by design in my minds-eye. So the OP stated that a 2.0 tire barely fit. My comments matched that. If it clears a Nevegal 2.2 then I would say great.

    My work is done here..... AL29er your reply here does make perfect sence and I would have said the same thing based on the 2.0 tire.....And for what it's worth I know you have been following the Paradox almost from the begining with many great comments and usefull feedback...Now just go get one already will ya? Same really could be said to you Florider..I'm not sure I agree completely with your thoughts on the tapered HT. Sure it would of been nice but a deal breaker NOWAY...Thanks guys....CF.
    Last edited by CRAZY FRED; 09-10-2009 at 05:40 AM.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by frorider
    i read on the banshee blog some comments about tire / front der clearance:
    Yeah there was but since then I've found even more FD that fit.
    It seems almost every level of shimano from LX, SLX, XTR, Hone Saint all have high clamp FD with little going on towards the backside of the clamp.
    Just get a 66-69[+] angle, and the ones i saw were all dual pull.
    http://bike.shimano.com/publish/cont...67.-type-.html
    for example this one will totally work... and there are ones just like it at different levels.
    I guess you could almost say its not really an issue now.
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by frorider
    btw last month I was on a road trip to the PNW (my old stomping grounds) and at places like Galbraith i saw lots of hardtail riders...basically in two categories: the steel 29er guys, usually single speed, with a 4 inch thru axle fork and largish tires, and quite a few guys on Transition TransAm 26ers (geared and single speed). Since I was travelling I only had one bike w/ me (160 mm travel FS 26er, geared of course) but came away thinking it would be cool to have a short chainstay, slack and burly 29er hardtail that was Hammerschmidt-ready ie.. had horiz or slider dropouts, along the lines of the transam. all the advantages of a single speed, but w/ 2 gears. like JNC's custom hammerstickel.

    the only complaint people have about the rear dropout design of the transam is that it works best w/ 10 mm thru axle, or end bolt, rear hubs; to me that isn't really a complaint, since for an AM bike i'd want that type of rear hub anyway.

    perhaps Banshee is considering all the above in the next generation paradox, along w/ a tapered or 1.5 head tube.
    We debated back and forth a lot about SS or Vert d/o and the consensus was this was an all mountain hardtail meaning it should be geared and be able to climb technical sections. If people want to make it into a SS thats cool but it was made for the average dude who may not have tree trunk legs and be the fittest guy. We had to draw the line somewhere and of course we could come up with some crazy adaptor that goes on the back but for now at least we'll be sticking with what we've got.
    I don't think there is a competitive advantage for the Paradox to have a taper. The way we do our hydroformed tubes are killer and there is little chance of the TT and DT ever seperating from the HT. I suppose it gives you options for 0 stack and HA adjusting cups but the bike is dialled with a 120 fork. I don't know if i'd be stoked with a 140 on the front... it seems like a lot of fork which seriously after racing it DH with a Reba i don't think you need it.
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    Agreed

    Quote Originally Posted by TerrorFirma
    We debated back and forth a lot about SS or Vert d/o and the consensus was this was an all mountain hardtail meaning it should be geared and be able to climb technical sections. If people want to make it into a SS thats cool but it was made for the average dude who may not have tree trunk legs and be the fittest guy. We had to draw the line somewhere and of course we could come up with some crazy adaptor that goes on the back but for now at least we'll be sticking with what we've got.
    I don't think there is a competitive advantage for the Paradox to have a taper. The way we do our hydroformed tubes are killer and there is little chance of the TT and DT ever seperating from the HT. I suppose it gives you options for 0 stack and HA adjusting cups but the bike is dialled with a 120 fork. I don't know if i'd be stoked with a 140 on the front... it seems like a lot of fork which seriously after racing it DH with a Reba i don't think you need it.
    140 on the front of this bike IMO would just be to much..The 120 Reba is perfect.......CF.

  29. #29
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    Can anyone put up some specs/geo for the Paradox. I can't seem to find them anywhere.
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRAZY FRED
    140 on the front of this bike IMO would just be to much..The 120 Reba is perfect.......CF.
    But how bout a tapered Reba

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoch
    Can anyone put up some specs/geo for the Paradox. I can't seem to find them anywhere.
    I will try and get them but for now they are on the Banshee blog..CF.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoch
    Can anyone put up some specs/geo for the Paradox. I can't seem to find them anywhere.
    not that it matters at all, but i think the CS length is actually 16.9 and not 17


    <TABLE style="WIDTH: 619px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse; HEIGHT: 108px" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0 str=""><TBODY><TR style="HEIGHT: 24pt" height=32><TD class=xl24 style="WIDTH: 48pt; HEIGHT: 24pt" width=64 height=32>

    </TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 31pt" width=41>offset</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 31pt" width=41>travel</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 33pt" width=44>fork height</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 35pt" width=47>Head Angle</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 32pt" width=43>BB 2.1 tire</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 36pt" width=48>trail 2.1</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 32pt" width=43>BB 2.4 tire</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 36pt" width=48>trail 2.4</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 33pt" width=44>drop</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 53pt" width=70>effective seat angle</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 31pt" width=41>actual</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17>Reba 09</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none" num="">46</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none" num="">120</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none" num="">526</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none" num="">69.5</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none" num="">12</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none" num="">87.7</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none" num="">12.4</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none" num="">91.7</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none" num="">62</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none" num="">72</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none" num="">70.3</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17>

    </TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none">

    </TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none" num="">100</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none" num="">506</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none" num="">70.5</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none" num="">11.7</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none" num="">80.9</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none" num="">12.1</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none" num="">84.7</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none" num="">69</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none" num="">73</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none" num="">71.2</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17>Reba 08</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none" num="">39</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none" num="">100</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none" num="">510</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none" num="">70.16</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none" num="">11.8</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none" num="">90.6</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none" num="">12.2</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none" num="">94.4</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none" num="">67</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none" num="">72.7</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none" num="">70.9</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE style="WIDTH: 412px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse; HEIGHT: 90px" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0 str=""><COLGROUP><COL style="WIDTH: 48pt" width=64><COL style="WIDTH: 31pt" width=41><COL style="WIDTH: 44pt" width=59><COL style="WIDTH: 42pt" width=56><COL style="WIDTH: 52pt" width=69><TBODY><TR style="HEIGHT: 24pt" height=32><TD class=xl25 style="WIDTH: 48pt; HEIGHT: 24pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" width=64 height=32 str="Frame ">Frame </TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 31pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" width=41>Size</TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 44pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" width=59 str="effective toptube ">effective toptube </TD><TD class=xl25 style="BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 42pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" width=56>head tube</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 52pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" width=69>Chainstay</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" height=17>Xlarge</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; TEXT-ALIGN: center" num="">22</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; TEXT-ALIGN: center" num="">25.3</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; TEXT-ALIGN: center" num="">4.3</TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; TEXT-ALIGN: center" num="">17.0</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" height=17>Large</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; TEXT-ALIGN: center" num="">19.5</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; TEXT-ALIGN: center" num="">24.2</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; TEXT-ALIGN: center" num="">4.3</TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; TEXT-ALIGN: center" num="">17.0</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; HEIGHT: 12.75pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center" height=17>Medium</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; TEXT-ALIGN: center" num="">17</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; TEXT-ALIGN: center" num="">23.2</TD><TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; TEXT-ALIGN: center" num="">4.3</TD><TD class=xl26 style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; TEXT-ALIGN: center" num="">17.0</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    not that it matters at all, but i think the CS length is actually 16.9 and not 17

    FoShizzle
    You are correct the Chainstays are 16.9 . I wanted to lose the 17 and see a 16 so asked that we make them just a hair shorter.
    Also the HA is 69 even so if you minus a half degree then you have what the production paradox's actually are.

    Those were the geo numbers for the first prototypes you have posted and everything is the same except for what i mentioned above.
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  34. #34
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    Thanks guys for specs. I'm liking the 19.5 with the 24.2 effective TT. I currently ride a large Niner....

    I couldn't find any specs on the blog, maybe I didn't go back far enough???

    Still looking for some stand over #'s.
    The Truth is out there. Here it isThe TRUTH

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by TerrorFirma
    FoShizzle
    You are correct the Chainstays are 16.9 . I wanted to lose the 17 and see a 16 so asked that we make them just a hair shorter.
    Also the HA is 69 even so if you minus a half degree then you have what the production paradox's actually are.

    Those were the geo numbers for the first prototypes you have posted and everything is the same except for what i mentioned above.
    good call on the HA, didnt realize that was 69

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    not that it matters at all, but i think the CS length is actually 16.9 and not 17
    Oh, it matters all right
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by TerrorFirma
    We debated back and forth a lot about SS or Vert d/o and the consensus was this was an all mountain hardtail meaning it should be geared and be able to climb technical sections. If people want to make it into a SS thats cool but it was made for the average dude who may not have tree trunk legs and be the fittest guy. We had to draw the line somewhere and of course we could come up with some crazy adaptor that goes on the back but for now at least we'll be sticking with what we've got.
    I don't think there is a competitive advantage for the Paradox to have a taper. The way we do our hydroformed tubes are killer and there is little chance of the TT and DT ever seperating from the HT. I suppose it gives you options for 0 stack and HA adjusting cups but the bike is dialled with a 120 fork. I don't know if i'd be stoked with a 140 on the front... it seems like a lot of fork which seriously after racing it DH with a Reba i don't think you need it.
    i understand your decision to not mess around w/ a convertible geared/SS rear end...that's fine. just pointing out that this convertability is part of the reason the transition transam has become more popular than some had predicted it would.

    re: tapered HT...as Fo knows, i'm hardly the world's biggest tapered ST/HT fan. I don't even own one. my bikes are 1.125 ST or 1.5 ST. But i can see where the industry is trending. Put it this way: in the 26er and 29er market, most any fork that gets ridden hard enough to justify a thru axle will trend toward having a 1.5 or a tapered 1.5/1.125 ST. so yeah, in the not so far future, a 120 mm travel 29er fork will increasingly become 'standard' w/ tapered ST. As for how well a 140 mm marzocchi would feel on a paradox, no one here knows. Would other adjustments to the frame geo be needed? maybe. but regardless, even if we're talking 120 mm, it makes sense to do what santa cruz did w/ the tallboy and go w/ a tapered HT to preserve complete compatibility for the future (and enable flush headset option as a secondary benefit).

    i see a parallel here to the slack HA xc/am 26er market. people said '140 mm travel feels perfect'; 'don't need more'. but when frames came out that were compatible w/ 160 floats and lyriks, those opinions started to change. some of those riders dropped the travel down to 150 or 140, so part of the lure here is to get a fat stanchion fork on there regardless of travel. stiffness is a good thing.

    what's cool about the paradox is that it is an affordable, slackish 29r HT that saves people the hassle of getting a custom HT.
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  38. #38
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    I think the Geo is dead on, the chainstays look cool, and the graphics are ugly. Not getting a new bike anytime soon, but it's fun to think about it.

    This sounds like a fun singlespeed, so the obvious question is: which gear ratio is close enough to taut, and which chainguide can then be installed to take up the slack and make a bomber SS?

    And, who will be the first to do it?

  39. #39
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    Paradox approx weight 2050g (including seat clamp)
    Tire Size Fork Travel Head Angle Seat Angle BB Height

    29"X2.3 4" 70 73 12.1
    29"X2.3 5" 69 72 12.4

    Size M L XL
    To fit rider height(aprox) 5'6"-5'10" 5'10"-6'2" >6'2"
    Seat Tube 17" 19.5" 22"
    Top Tube 23.2" (589mm) 24.2" (615mm) 25.3" (643mm)
    Max Tire Clearance 2.4"
    Rear Hub Spacing 135mm OLD
    Rear Dropout Axle Size 10mm
    Head Tube length 4.3" (110mm)
    Chainstay 16.9" (430mm)
    Wheelbase 1080mm (42.5") 1104 (43.5") 1146 (45.1")
    Standover 755mm (29.7") 800mm (31.5") 816mm (32.1")
    Headset 1.125"
    Seatpost Dia 30.9mm
    FD Clamp Dia 34.9mm


    -edit- sorry I spaced this out in my reply so that it was all aligned... but when posting it the spacing has canceled itself, sorry!
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ionsmuse
    This sounds like a fun singlespeed, so the obvious question is: which gear ratio is close enough to taut, and which chainguide can then be installed to take up the slack and make a bomber SS?

    And, who will be the first to do it?
    Already been done, and Yeah I agree sounds like a really fun SS.
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...08668#poststop
    "I ride to clear my head, my head is clearer when I'm riding SS. Therefore, I choose to ride SS."~ Fullrange Drew

  41. #41
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    [QUOTE=ionsmuse] the graphics are ugly.



    I could not disagree with you anymore on this one..Yes we all know I'm a big fan of Black & white bikes but this goes way behond just those two colors...IMO......CF.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by ionsmuse
    I think the Geo is dead on, the chainstays look cool, and the graphics are ugly. Not getting a new bike anytime soon, but it's fun to think about it.

    This sounds like a fun singlespeed, so the obvious question is: which gear ratio is close enough to taut, and which chainguide can then be installed to take up the slack and make a bomber SS?

    And, who will be the first to do it?

    ION,

    The black and white graphics on this frame are beautiful! You have to see it in person! One of the best I have ever seen. IMHO.

  43. #43

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    It's been a while, but I thought I'd come in and say that with my large Paradox I'm sporting a 150mm travel White Bros. Fluid 29 fork and dig it. Yeah, some would say that is too much travel and it steepens out the bike too much. It actually feels really good, and gives me more options on how I ride the bike. I've also had the bike set up SS and with a 1x9 with an MRP G2 guide up front, wich makes me so happy that it has ISCG mounts. I'd say that if you are a hardcore SS person, get yourself an eccentric rear hub. It's just a good way to have a solid drive train and no tensioner, White Industries makes a good one, I just hope I'm using the right word for it. Who cares, the SS dudes and chicks have seen it. As far as tire clearance, a 2.4 is tight and has to be deflated to get in, but is well worth it for the agility of the machine.
    That being said, I'll be the first guy to say this is an awesome am machine. I've done everything from 70 mile xc rides to hitting some dirt jumps on it. I've got it to spin pretty well, landing solid 270's off a comfortable hip. I'm not saying this is a huck bike, it was never intended for that, but it holds up remarkably well and I'll go anywhere on it. If you race the MSC come by and see us. We're always down for a ride.

  44. #44
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    Pics please?

  45. #45
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    Any smalls for 5ft 6ers?
    How would it go with a 100mm fork?

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by dadcram
    Any smalls for 5ft 6ers?
    How would it go with a 100mm fork?
    As far as I know the medium is the smallest Paradox made but according to the spec. is for a 5' 6" rider. Why would you want to use a 120mm. fork, but I suppose you could?

    "Banshee Paradox 29er Frame: For the rider looking for the rolling advantage of 29Ē wheels with 26Ē wheel agility as well as looking for unparalleled stiffness. The Paradox is built around a 120mm fork, this isn't an endurance racer. Banshee has curved the seat tube to give clearance for 2.4in tires with super-short (by 29er standards) 17in chainstays. It's also got ISCG05 mounts and cable guides for a Hammerschmidt. This is Banshee's interpretation of an Aggressive - All Mountain 29er.

    Specifications

    * Super short chainstays at 16.9Ē = nimble handling
    * Internally ribbed seat and Chainstay = extreme lateral stiffness, extreme power transfer to rear wheel
    * ISCG 05 mounts for Hammershmidt compatibility
    * Cable guides for adjustable seat posts (ex. - Joplin)
    * Geometry based around 120mm travel forks"
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  47. #47

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    I'll have to wait for the snow to melt before I can get some pics, but I do have some choppy video clips I could try and get up. I'll work on it. thanks for the interest.

  48. #48
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    Is this a single speed only frame or is it interchaingalbe (like the soul cycle dillinger) I'm new to 29er's so would like to start out with a 3-9 and go from there. If so, i'll order one tomorrow... sounds like a great frame.

    thanks

    TC

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by toddcrashed
    Is this a single speed only frame or is it interchangeable
    See post #27 of this thread.

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