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  1. #1
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    banshee paradox

    interested in buying a parodox but scared of hardtails i guess. had a ventana el rey with 5" suspension and it was a great bike but wasnt as fun as a 26" bike on the downhills. just wondering if a parodox can take a beating in rock gardens and 3' drops, im sure the frame can but what about the wheels? or is a hardtail in rough terrain just going to beat me up? the reviews on the paradox say it rides smooth for a hardtail though, just wondering what kind of trails they were on when writing those reviews though? if you have ridden one let me know what you think of it in all types of terrain
    thank you

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    I recently built one as my first 29" bike. I purposely went for a hardtail to tryout the big wheels. I also still own an Intense 5point5. I'm in the Northeast and unfortunately I haven't had much chance to ride a lot on rough terrain with the Paradox but I like it so far. I definitely like the feel of the big wheels and I can see the 5point5 not getting much use.

    I reckon I'll ride the Paradox for a while and if I feel the need to change, I'll use the components on a full suspension 29" frame. The Paradox only owes me $600 and I'm sure I'll get most of that back if I sell it.

    I've ridden some of my local trails on a 26" hardtail too. This is North Jersey and I've survived the rocks and roots. Oh, by the way I saw on your other thread that you are 40 plus, well I've got ten plus years on you.

    Ronnie.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails banshee paradox-img_2468.jpg  

    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie
    I recently built one as my first 29" bike. I purposely went for a hardtail to tryout the big wheels. I also still own an Intense 5point5. I'm in the Northeast and unfortunately I haven't had much chance to ride a lot on rough terrain with the Paradox but I like it so far. I definitely like the feel of the big wheels and I can see the 5point5 not getting much use.

    I reckon I'll ride the Paradox for a while and if I feel the need to change, I'll use the components on a full suspension 29" frame. The Paradox only owes me $600 and I'm sure I'll get most of that back if I sell it.

    I've ridden some of my local trails on a 26" hardtail too. This is North Jersey and I've survived the rocks and roots. Oh, by the way I saw on your other thread that you are 40 plus, well I've got ten plus years on you.

    Ronnie.
    Dam Ronnie I gotta say brother this bike is really looken good...I mean real good..Hey confused I just sent you a PM...CF.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie
    I recently built one as my first 29" bike. I purposely went for a hardtail to tryout the big wheels. I also still own an Intense 5point5. I'm in the Northeast and unfortunately I haven't had much chance to ride a lot on rough terrain with the Paradox but I like it so far. I definitely like the feel of the big wheels and I can see the 5point5 not getting much use.

    I reckon I'll ride the Paradox for a while and if I feel the need to change, I'll use the components on a full suspension 29" frame. The Paradox only owes me $600 and I'm sure I'll get most of that back if I sell it.

    I've ridden some of my local trails on a 26" hardtail too. This is North Jersey and I've survived the rocks and roots. Oh, by the way I saw on your other thread that you are 40 plus, well I've got ten plus years on you.

    Ronnie.
    The Paradox is looking sweet - not to derail the thread but I am wondering which Specialized tires you are running and how they are treating you? Any feedback would be great-
    I Just wish I could ride more!


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    Quote Originally Posted by knottshore
    The Paradox is looking sweet - not to derail the thread but I am wondering which Specialized tires you are running and how they are treating you? Any feedback would be great-
    They are Specialized Purgatory 2.2. I think Specialized are one of the few tire manufacturers who's sizing is accurate. I measured them at 2.19", with a vernier. I like them so far but the weather has not allowed me to put them through their paces on roots and rocks. Everything is covered in snow. I'll keep you posted.

    Ronnie.
    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

  6. #6
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    What CF said. I've drooled over a lot of burly 29er hardtails lately- FoSkey, a couple SSBs, some other PDXs, but your build just looks right. Well done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie
    I recently built one as my first 29" bike. I purposely went for a hardtail to tryout the big wheels. I also still own an Intense 5point5. I'm in the Northeast and unfortunately I haven't had much chance to ride a lot on rough terrain with the Paradox but I like it so far. I definitely like the feel of the big wheels and I can see the 5point5 not getting much use.

    I reckon I'll ride the Paradox for a while and if I feel the need to change, I'll use the components on a full suspension 29" frame. The Paradox only owes me $600 and I'm sure I'll get most of that back if I sell it.

    I've ridden some of my local trails on a 26" hardtail too. This is North Jersey and I've survived the rocks and roots. Oh, by the way I saw on your other thread that you are 40 plus, well I've got ten plus years on you.

    Ronnie.
    Nice build :drool:
    Bravo!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by confused
    interested in buying a parodox but scared of hardtails i guess. had a ventana el rey with 5" suspension and it was a great bike but wasnt as fun as a 26" bike on the downhills. just wondering if a parodox can take a beating in rock gardens and 3' drops, im sure the frame can but what about the wheels? or is a hardtail in rough terrain just going to beat me up? the reviews on the paradox say it rides smooth for a hardtail though, just wondering what kind of trails they were on when writing those reviews though? if you have ridden one let me know what you think of it in all types of terrain
    thank you
    Scared of hardtails No need for that.

    Will the Paradox take the abuse? Most likely. It is a well thoughtout design and construction appears to be solid. If you are really abusing it I suppose it will crack eventually, but that is an aluminum material thing and not really a negative on the company or design.

    Will it kill/damage wheels? Depends on the rider and the wheels in question. I think it will be tougher on wheels than a flexy steel frame. Wheels should be built accordingly.

    Is it going to just beat you up? Yeah, it is a stiff hardtail. Even a nice flexy steel hardtail can beat you up after a couple hours in the saddle. With a stiffer frame the fatigue and abuse wears quicker on the rider.

    It is what it is. The Paradox was purpose built to handle abuse and give responsive handling. It does this well so far as I can tell. But, don't expect too much compliance or comfort out of it. It rides like a stiff aluminum hardtail. If you take it down a rock garden you will feel it You either slow down or tighten your grip and deal with the vibrations.
    Quote Originally Posted by saturnine
    that's the stupidest idea this side of pinkbike.

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    so when i was riding the el rey i almost always had the shock locked out, even in the rough stuff. when i unlocked the shock, yes the bike was much smoother and i could ride it a little rougher though having it locked didnt really bother me much. i know the suspension still moves a little when locked but maybe its an indication that i dont mind hardtails?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie
    I recently built one as my first 29" bike. I purposely went for a hardtail to tryout the big wheels. I also still own an Intense 5point5. I'm in the Northeast and unfortunately I haven't had much chance to ride a lot on rough terrain with the Paradox but I like it so far. I definitely like the feel of the big wheels and I can see the 5point5 not getting much use.

    I reckon I'll ride the Paradox for a while and if I feel the need to change, I'll use the components on a full suspension 29" frame. The Paradox only owes me $600 and I'm sure I'll get most of that back if I sell it.

    I've ridden some of my local trails on a 26" hardtail too. This is North Jersey and I've survived the rocks and roots. Oh, by the way I saw on your other thread that you are 40 plus, well I've got ten plus years on you.

    Ronnie.
    dang...that's a nice pic R. Saint hub, MOST ignored and underrated option...entirely rad bike!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    dang...that's a nice pic R. Saint hub, MOST ignored and underrated option...entirely rad bike!
    Thanks Fo. I've got to give credit to the wife. Photography is her thing. She's damn good at it.

    I'm a big fan of Shimano. The M960 hubs on my 5point5 are 6 years old and I've only replaced the ball bearings I think twice. I've never touched them otherwise. My first thought was XT hubs for this build but I've sworn off QR hubs, even for 135mm. X 10mm. When I checked on the Shimano site that the Saint hubs are lighter than XT it was a no brainer. To be realistic the rear axle is heavy because it is steel. I could have gone for a DT 10mm. RWS but I don't like the tightening handle that sticks out.

    Ronnie.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails banshee paradox-img_2482.jpg  

    Last edited by Ronnie; 02-08-2010 at 08:02 PM.
    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie
    Thanks Fo. I've got to give credit to the wife. Photography is her thing. She damn good at it.

    I'm a big fan of Shimano. The M960 hubs on my 5point5 are 6 years old and I've only replaced the ball bearings I think twice. I've never touched them otherwise. My first thought was XT hubs for this build but I've sworn off QR hubs, even for 135mm. X 10mm. When I checked on the Shimano site that the Saint hubs are lighter than XT it was a no brainer. To be realistic the rear axle is heavy because it is steel. I could have gone for a DT 10mm. RWS but I don't like the tightening handle that sticks out.

    Ronnie.
    nice! indeed...Shimano hubs >= 2009 are fantastic. hmmm....i think saints will be my next hub if i dont go Kings as they just make sense. as for the DT ratchet skewer, its an entire sack of ass. I, as well as e-friends, have ruined them as they simply suck for a variety of reasons and make zero sense

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    nice! indeed...Shimano hubs >= 2009 are fantastic. hmmm....i think saints will be my next hub if i dont go Kings as they just make sense
    Here's the front. Another reason I like them is that I'm sold on Centerlock. I won't use 6 bolt hubs. But that's just me.

    Ronnie.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails banshee paradox-img_2473.jpg  

    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

  14. #14
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    Day-um, that's a nice looking bike. The only thing keeping me from buying a Paradox is the lack of a tapered head tube. I want to be able to recycle my 44 into my next hardtail frame when a bigger fork becomes available.

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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive
    Day-um, that's a nice looking bike. The only thing keeping me from buying a Paradox is the lack of a tapered head tube. I want to be able to recycle my 44 into my next hardtail frame when a bigger fork becomes available.
    The tapered steerer is an interesting option, but IMO it is not necessary. The front end on the Paradox is quite stiff and I can't detect any flex out of my Reba w/20mm. I weigh in around 240lb, so if I am not seeing flex as an issue then it isn't likely an issue

    Only thing I can say for sure about tapered setup is that the fork and headset would have cost me an additional $200-400 over the CC S-3 and 1-1/8in Reba Team that I am currently running.
    Quote Originally Posted by saturnine
    that's the stupidest idea this side of pinkbike.

  16. #16
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    Yeah, I accept your point, and there are so many changed variables between my 2 frames that I can't narrow the increased stiffness to that.

    But again- my point is that I want a frame that will accept the tapered 44 when it's time to recycle it.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive
    Yeah, I accept your point, and there are so many changed variables between my 2 frames that I can't narrow the increased stiffness to that.

    But again- my point is that I want a frame that will accept the tapered 44 when it's time to recycle it.
    I have a tapered steerer tube therefore they are better

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    I have a tapered steerer tube therefore they are better
    That's the kind of scientifically defensible data I want. Awesome.

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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive
    That's the kind of scientifically defensible data I want. Awesome.
    you are very welcome

    Others' comments about "not being necessary", etc...probably true however, guess what? hydro disc brakes are "not necessary", mech disc brakes work fine, etc, etc, etc

    i see NO quantitative data, nor will I ever, on how much better a tapered fork performs on the trail, where it matters. Dont give a $hit about theoretical pathetic engineering mumbo jumbo either

    Are peoples' comments on tapered forks vs standard steerer tubes being done in the context of the SAME fork, except for being tapered, being tested on the SAME exact bike? No, it is not. Even if they could, would anything they think they observe prove anything? No, it would not.

    I can say that i would happily bet that its does NOT perform worse.

    Not detecting flex on a bike with a standard fork clearly does NOTHING to prove that a tapered fork wouldnt be even better. Noticeable even if it were better? dont effing know nor do i really care.

    In summary, I have a tapered fork which in and of itself provides more robust evidence than provided by any other MTBRetard thus, they are better

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    nice! indeed...Shimano hubs >= 2009 are fantastic. hmmm....i think saints will be my next hub if i dont go Kings as they just make sense. as for the DT ratchet skewer, its an entire sack of ass. I, as well as e-friends, have ruined them as they simply suck for a variety of reasons and make zero sense
    While I am not one of your e-friends, I happen to very much like the DT swiss thru axles. The plastic lever is a bit flimsy, and it takes a bit longer to mount, but 'I think' it offers extra stiffness compared to a standard QR skewer.

    Mark

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    Quote Originally Posted by AL29er
    Scared of hardtails No need for that.

    Will the Paradox take the abuse? Most likely. It is a well thoughtout design and construction appears to be solid. If you are really abusing it I suppose it will crack eventually, but that is an aluminum material thing and not really a negative on the company or design.

    Will it kill/damage wheels? Depends on the rider and the wheels in question. I think it will be tougher on wheels than a flexy steel frame. Wheels should be built accordingly.

    Is it going to just beat you up? Yeah, it is a stiff hardtail. Even a nice flexy steel hardtail can beat you up after a couple hours in the saddle. With a stiffer frame the fatigue and abuse wears quicker on the rider.

    It is what it is. The Paradox was purpose built to handle abuse and give responsive handling. It does this well so far as I can tell. But, don't expect too much compliance or comfort out of it. It rides like a stiff aluminum hardtail. If you take it down a rock garden you will feel it You either slow down or tighten your grip and deal with the vibrations.
    What he said I concur with. I have a 27lb Paradox with a Manipoo 120mm set up SS, and a 31lb El Rey with the 5" rockers DHX Coil and a Coil Fox 120mm QR fork. I am WAY faster on the downs on the El Rey. WIth front and rear squish I have that much more traction and control over ther Paradox. The Paradox is a very fun ride no doubt, but on the downs it is still a hardtail. Where the Paradox shines up here in the Pacific Northwest is in the tight, twisty, and root filled singletrack. The short wheelbase allows 26" like turning ability, and the slack headtube makes lofting the front wheel a matter of a simple weight shift. That being said these two bikes play second fiddle to my main SS full rigid bike. If I had to choose one bike I would actually pick the El Rey as it has gears and suspension. I am fortunate to have more than one bike to play with and I love riding all of them. I usually favor the rigid bike as it is much easier for me to maintain myself in all the wet muddy riding here.

  22. #22
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    The Banshee specs page for this frame seems to indicate a preference for 120mm fork. Has anyone tried running 100mm? I imagine the obvious side effects would be steeper HA and lower BB height yes?

  23. #23
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    I am getting a fair amount of rock strikes at 120mm. With the 2.2 tires I am running the BB ended up a bit lower than expected (about 12in IIRC). Also, there doesn't seem to be any reason to shorten the fork and steep the geometry. It handles very well with the 120mm. I am running a bit more sag than normal, so the sagged position on this may be closer to a sagged out 100mm. I just get more travel when the suspension unloads in the rough stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by saturnine
    that's the stupidest idea this side of pinkbike.

  24. #24
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    My DT 10mm RWS has been solid for over 2 years now, many rock hits, why anyone would want a thru bolt that requires a tool is beyond me. Plus the fact that Fo and his E pals don't like it makes me like it even more now!, please tell us how you and your E butt buddies ruined them Fo.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by rroeder
    My DT 10mm RWS has been solid for over 2 years now, many rock hits, why anyone would want a thru bolt that requires a tool is beyond me. Plus the fact that Fo and his E pals don't like it makes me like it even more now!, please tell us how you and your E butt buddies ruined them Fo.
    As I said I thought of a RWS axle but decided against it (for me). I have a friend who has a set of DT Swiss wheels including 240S 9/10mm. QR hubs and 5mm. RWS skewers. They work very well but I just do not like the way the handles stick out.

    My Shimano Thru Bolt axle requires only a 6mm. hex. wrench which is on my multi-tool in my Camelback at all times anyway. I don't remove the wheel very often and the bike is cleaner. I may be strange but I prefer the Manitou Hex Axle on my front to the Maxle.

    Ronnie.
    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

  26. #26
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    Hey Ronnie I understand where your coming from, you prefer the thru bolts, altho both the DT setup and the Maxle are plenty tough and proven as well as more convienent.

    My post was directed at Fo, I'm curious how he and his E pals have ruined them and why they "simply suck for a variety of reasons"

  27. #27
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    I think the plastic lever strikes a nerve with the bling posse
    I ran one for over a year without incident. I have since switched over to Hadley style for a cleaner look. But I have no issue running an RWS again if I felt froggy
    Quote Originally Posted by saturnine
    that's the stupidest idea this side of pinkbike.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by rroeder
    Hey Ronnie I understand where your coming from, you prefer the thru bolts, altho both the DT setup and the Maxle are plenty tough and proven as well as more convienent.

    Quote Originally Posted by rroeder
    ....why anyone would want a thru bolt that requires a tool is beyond me.
    My response was directed at your above comment.

    Quote Originally Posted by rroeder
    My post was directed at Fo, I'm curious how he and his E pals have ruined them and why they "simply suck for a variety of reasons"
    As too that I remain diplomatically non-partisan!

    Ronnie.
    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

  29. #29
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    Nice build!
    Mine will be set up with a lot of shimano components as well.
    I went for sunline V1 carbon bar, hope that will be a winner. Great to see another Paradoxthread. Looking forward to some riding shots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie
    I recently built one as my first 29" bike. I purposely went for a hardtail to tryout the big wheels. I also still own an Intense 5point5. I'm in the Northeast and unfortunately I haven't had much chance to ride a lot on rough terrain with the Paradox but I like it so far. I definitely like the feel of the big wheels and I can see the 5point5 not getting much use.

    I reckon I'll ride the Paradox for a while and if I feel the need to change, I'll use the components on a full suspension 29" frame. The Paradox only owes me $600 and I'm sure I'll get most of that back if I sell it.

    I've ridden some of my local trails on a 26" hardtail too. This is North Jersey and I've survived the rocks and roots. Oh, by the way I saw on your other thread that you are 40 plus, well I've got ten plus years on you.

    Ronnie.

    Ronnie, where did you find that fork, I have not seen them in 20mm anywhere??

    Also, has anyone riden one with a 140mm fork? The Banshee website has the specs on both 120 and 140. Any input?

    Thanks
    I like to ride Bikes. This might be turning into an obsession, not sure?

  31. #31
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    One of the prototypes was setup with a WB F150 fork. The guy who has the bike now seems to appreciate the handling. So I guess a 140mm wouldn't be out of the question. Only issue is if it would make the bike too specific, as in DH/gravity vs. all mountain up&down.
    Quote Originally Posted by saturnine
    that's the stupidest idea this side of pinkbike.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjcools
    Ronnie, where did you find that fork, I have not seen them in 20mm anywhere??

    Also, has anyone riden one with a 140mm fork? The Banshee website has the specs on both 120 and 140. Any input?

    Thanks
    The fork is available from Manitou. Retail price is $550. I try to support my LBS. They are a Specialized/Trek dealer so I don't tend to buy bikes from them. I have a good relationship and I asked them to order it for me and it cost me $510. Internet is not always the cheapest. It arrived within a week.

    The Banshee site has the spec. for 4" and 5" forks, roughly 100mm. and 120mm. not 140mm.

    Ronnie.
    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

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