Anyone seen a Civilian Luddite 29er?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Anyone seen a Civilian Luddite 29er?

    Civilian appears to have been acquired by, and become the house brand of, Competitive Cyclist/Backcountry.com. Civilian has some interesting bikes on their site (and on CC), but I'm really intrigued by the Luddite. <http://www.ridecvln.com/bikes/luddite/>

    The Luddite is a steel frame SS that can also be run with gears. Because it has an oversized headtube (and takes a tapered fork), the closest bike on the market is the Salsa El Mar.

    Weight is not listed for the Luddite, and I haven't seen any reviews or other information about them. I'm not even sure this bike is available to ship yet. Hoping somebody has seen one or ridden one or has some more info.

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
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    I too am interested in more about this brand, I haven't been able to find much...

  3. #3
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    Linky here:

    2012 Civilian Luddite - Competitive Cyclist

    Looks nice, comes stock with a carbon fork. But the msrp is steep for what you get though. I can only figure that they do an immediate "sale price"

  4. #4
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    Mountain - Civilian - Civilian
    It does seem steep for a SS with mechanical brakes.
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    I think CC has the chance to deliver some real value in the Civilian bikes, as Civilian is now essentially a direct-to-consumer bike line manufactured and sold by a large, knowledgeable player in the online bike market (Backcountry.com/Competitive Cyclist), much like Salsa Bikes are owned and sold by QBP.

    I'd love to build a Ti Selma, but am still struggling to justify the expense. In addition to the cost of the frame itself, I know the costs would spiral with the "might-as-well's" of the build. Instead, I am looking at buying a complete Salsa El Mar 2, building up an El Mar frame with mid-priced parts, or buying a Civilian Luddite and adding a nice Reba fork with 15mmTA, tapered steerer, and remote lock out.

    The Salsa bikes are a known commodity, but the Luddite looks great, and I know the guys at CC wouldn't make the misstep of offering a clunky bike for the launch of their house brand. But sadly, Civilian has not responded to an email I sent over the weekend, requesting more information about the bike and its weight.

    If anyone has ridden the Civilian hard-tail (the Luddite or Young Turk), please let me know what you think about this bike.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gofannon View Post
    Yes, I saw the site. It's nice but I couldn't find the weight. Did you find it?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Tiki View Post
    Yes, I saw the site. It's nice but I couldn't find the weight. Did you find it?
    Their configurator page lists it around the 20# range.

    http://www.competitivecyclist.com/Luddite
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gofannon View Post
    Their configurator page lists it around the 20# range.

    http://www.competitivecyclist.com/Luddite
    Thanks. Looks like the XL would be 20.6lbs. Not bad for a steel bike, especially in the $1000 range. I talked to CC and they said the carbon fork is approx 500g, so adding a suspension fork would only add two lbs to the complete bike. For those who may be interested, the WTB wheels weigh approx 1900g, which isn't much heavier than my Stans Flows, and certainly far lighter than the stock wheels that came on my Monocog Flight.

    The Luddite is looking like a bargain for a mid-level bike steel bike, assuming it rides well.

  9. #9
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    Thanks to Gofannon, I found that once you select the frame color and size on the CC website, it takes you to a page listing all of the individual parts on the bike and their respective weights. Looking at this page, it would be easy to shave a pound off this bike to offset the addition of a suspension fork.

    I may be alone in this preference, but I'd rather have good mechanical disc brakes (such as the BB7's) over entry level avid hydros any day of the week. Doubly so on an SS XC bike.

    And considering the parts and weight of this bike, I don't think the msrp is steep. Assuming the ride is as good, it compares quite favorably to the Kona Unit and the Monocog Flight, which are both heavier bikes.

    Finally, if anyone has a suggestion for a reasonably priced and spec'ed lightweight SS which doesn't use an EBB, please let me know. Thanks.

  10. #10
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    I think the weight is only for the kit-everything but the frame so you are looking at another 5 lbs. or so but still no biggy.
    A 20# complete just doesn't sound right
    I could be wrong though. It is nice the Turk one comes with a Reba and the option to SS still. But purchasing a closeout Monocog or similar and a Reba and you are in the same range of quality and value for less money, sans sliding dropouts

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmmorath View Post
    I think the weight is only for the kit-everything but the frame so you are looking at another 5 lbs. or so but still no biggy.
    A 20# complete just doesn't sound right
    I could be wrong though. It is nice the Turk one comes with a Reba and the option to SS still. But purchasing a closeout Monocog or similar and a Reba and you are in the same range of quality and value for less money, sans sliding dropouts
    I think it's for the complete bike because other bikes show pretty standard weights.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Tiki View Post
    Thanks. Looks like the XL would be 20.6lbs. Not bad for a steel bike, especially in the $1000 range. I talked to CC and they said the carbon fork is approx 500g, so adding a suspension fork would only add two lbs to the complete bike. For those who may be interested, the WTB wheels weigh approx 1900g, which isn't much heavier than my Stans Flows, and certainly far lighter than the stock wheels that came on my Monocog Flight.

    The Luddite is looking like a bargain for a mid-level bike steel bike, assuming it rides well.
    There is no chance that bike complete weighs 20lbs. You've got to add the weight of the frame to the weight of the kit. I'd bet that frame is every bit of 5.7-6lbs.

    Hell, there's a half pound of seatpost that's mis-listed, too.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneBadWagon View Post
    There is no chance that bike complete weighs 20lbs. You've got to add the weight of the frame to the weight of the kit. I'd bet that frame is every bit of 5.7-6lbs.
    Agreed. I suspect the bike weighs at least 25lbs.

  14. #14
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    It does have a carbon rigid fork, I would think around 23-24 pounds
    Rudy Projects look ridiculous

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    Quote Originally Posted by appleSSeed View Post
    It does have a carbon rigid fork, I would think around 23-24 pounds
    With those parts? No chance. It says the build kit is 20.6 lbs, so add youre at 26ish. That is not a light kit at all.

  16. #16
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    I think the steel fork on my Monocog Flight weighed about 2 or 3 lbs, which was lighter than I expected at the time I removed it. The carbon fork on the Luddite has a claimed weight 500g (about 1.1lbs), which only eliminates a pound or two off a steel fork. The balance of the components on the Luddite appear to be no lighter than the spec'ed parts on the Monocog Flight, the Kona Unit, or the Salsa El Mar, and in many instances, the Luddite parts are heavier. And while some steel frames are lighter than others, a double butted steel frame in any given size has some minimum weight, and in an XL mass-produced frame, it's probably 5lbs.

    Given there is no magic steel frame, and no flyweight parts listed in the kit, I suspect the Civilian Luddite (and geared Young Turk) weighs within a pound or two of the Unit, Monocog Flight, and Salsa El Mar.

    If the Luddite had a the Reba RL fork at the $1,100 price, it would be a bargain (and unique in the market as a steel SS complete bike with a good suspension fork). But as it stands, it is simply another rigid SS bike with a build kit and weight comparable to the other bikes listed above. I suppose the carbon fork distinguishes it, but I'm too old for a fully rigid bike.

    While the Luddite may be a great bike and an equal value to its competition, I'd rather buy the known El Mar or MC Flight for the same price until the jury is in on the Luddite.

    All that said, if the XL Luddite is, in fact, only 20lbs, I'll buy one and try it.

  17. #17
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    Well, it looks like I may be buying a Luddite.

    Assuming the claimed weight of the kit is correct on Competitive Cyclist, and adding 289g for a 410mm Thomson seatpost (and subtracting the 23g seat post error on the CC site), the total kit has a claimed weight of 7,554g or 16.65 lbs. Add a 5 pound steel frame, and you're still under 22lbs.

    If anybody finds an error in my math or a missing part that should be added to the kit weight, let me know.

    Obviously, a bike on the scale gives its true weight, but the Luddite may be back in the running for me.

  18. #18
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    Here's a better link to the parts list.
    Luddite - Civilian - Civilian

    Here's a link to the listed 85g bottom bracket.
    It's an ounce heavier on their own site.
    2012 SRAM GXP Team Bottom Bracket - Competitive Cyclist

    According to a different site, the cranks are 2 ounces heavier than listed.
    Truvativ CSBB 07 Firex 1.1G 33T 175 Blk Truvativ Cranksets Mountain

    Nevegal listed weight 720g
    According to their own site, 820g.
    2012 Kenda Nevegal DTC 29 Tire - Competitive Cyclist

    This is speculation, but it's listed as a WTB XC wheelset. WTB Speed Disc rims are 550g each, so with hubs/spokes/nipples you're looking at :
    1100g rims
    410g rear hub QUANDO 32H Gold Bike Hub/Bicycle Parts - Detailed info for QUANDO 32H Gold Bike Hub/Bicycle Parts,bike hub,QUANDO 32H Gold Bike Hub/Bicycle Parts, on Alibaba.com
    250g front hub QUANDO KT-T04F Front Bicycle Hub - Detailed info for QUANDO KT-T04F Front Bicycle Hub,front bicycle hub,QUANDO KT-T04F Front Bicycle Hub, on Alibaba.com
    70g nipples
    444g 64 dt swiss 2.0g nipples

    I don't see how that wheelset is less than 2300g.

    Buy it, they apparently have a good return policy. I'd love to see a cheap 22-23lb SS bike on the market.

  19. #19
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    I just went to the Salsa website to look at the El Mar for comparison. Kudos to Salsa for listing the weights of their complete bikes in each frame size! Wish all manufacturers would list weights.

  20. #20
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    I'm just curious why the hell a bike called the Luddite comes with a carbon fork and tapered compatibility...
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    I'm just curious why the hell a bike called the Luddite comes with a carbon fork and tapered compatibility...
    Funny. My guess is that the name is a nod to the frame material, lack of gears, and lack of suspension.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gofannon View Post
    I think it's for the complete bike because other bikes show pretty standard weights.
    If you add up all of the component weights on the young turk model, total component weight comes to 20.00 lb. The "kit totals" weight read 23.99 lb. So, i assume the difference is the steel frame (3.99 lb).

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by rnseltz View Post
    If you add up all of the component weights on the young turk model, total component weight comes to 20.00 lb. The "kit totals" weight read 23.99 lb. So, i assume the difference is the steel frame (3.99 lb).
    < 4 lbs. steel frame?
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  24. #24
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    I guarantee this bike is at least 25 lbs or so...you guys thinking the bike is only 20 lbs are out of your mind.

  25. #25
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    Has anyone taken deliver for this 20lb wonderbike that defies math yet?

  26. #26
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    Let's just say for instance not all of us here care to bolt a digital scale to our garage rafters. Has anyone taken delivery on a Luddite or a Young Turk? I am interested in how well it handles / rides / sprints / climbs / takes downhill, etc, with as-spec'ed components (of which we can all find separate reviews for here on MTBR). More specifically the Young Turk, but I'll gladly take feedback on the Luddite.

  27. #27
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    there have been a few other posts about this (one started by me) if you do a little digging u might find some needed info hope i could help

  28. #28
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    Hey folks! I've been riding the Luddite for a few weeks now, I'm reviewing it for Singletracks. There will be an On-Test article go up on the site soon, then the final review a few weeks later. The On-Test article has been written and sitting waiting it's turn to get posted for a few weeks, but a bunch of other articles were in line in front of it. It's coming soon though.

    I'll give you a few teasers. It is NOT a 20lbs bike. Mine, size large, weighed 26.6lbs pimp stock out of the box, without pedals. That's using a Feedback Sports digital hanging scale - it is accurate. The carbon fork is pretty sweet. It's a fun bike. You'll have to wait for the rest, sorry. I'll post the links whenever the articles go up.




  29. #29
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    Waiting on that final review....
    HucknRoll has these on sale for $785 shipped. I might just bite the bullet and pick one up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Possum Jones View Post
    Waiting on that final review....
    HucknRoll has these on sale for $785 shipped. I might just bite the bullet and pick one up.
    Anybody else try one out? I also saw this and it seems like a good deal. Thoughts?

  31. #31
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    Can I assume that the Luddite is suspension corrected for a 100mm fork?? I like this bike!
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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    Can I assume that the Luddite is suspension corrected for a 100mm fork?? I like this bike!
    Yep it is. Now, where's that review while there on sale?

  33. #33
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    I did it. I bought it today. I was planning on building up a sir 9, but this is a cheap way to get into SS for now. First order of business is a stock set of ztr arches, a light(er) set of tires, and tubless. That should drop a pound or two easy. I'll post up when I get it put together.
    Last edited by Possum Jones; 06-16-2012 at 06:20 PM.
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    Does the Huck & Roll sale price include shipping? I was/am planning on building an El Mar or a Selma, but at this price (plus the cost of a cheap rockshox fork), the Luddite may be worth the gamble.

  35. #35
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    Free shipping and no tax unless you live in Utah or Arkansas.
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  36. #36
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    On sale and comes with a free jersey too.

  37. #37
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    I think I might get one. The wife gave me permission to get a bike off of Craigslist/eBay for neighborhood use. I would have to use the secret credit card and get it dirty quick to convince her it is used.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zakman View Post
    I think I might get one. The wife gave me permission to get a bike off of Craigslist/eBay for neighborhood use. I would have to use the secret credit card and get it dirty quick to convince her it is used.
    I like your style. Report back.

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    I got the geared version - Young Turk a couple weeks ago and am still adjusting to the big wheels. I think it's a lot of bike for the money, other thoughts:

    * Heavy, no exact # yet, doesn't really affect my riding
    * nicely spec'd parts & it fits me well
    * Biggest disappointment is the fork, advertised as 15mm maxle but really a QR - called and *****ed a bit & was credited $100
    * Coming off an older FSR, thrilled to be on a new ride but I can't shake the absent thru axle. Reba is great, do not notice flex on the trail but laterally flexes by hand a bit.
    *I have 5 more weeks to send back if I choose, but most likely will keep it. I do see they have El Mar.s 3's in stock and the future availability of replacement dropouts makes me wonder about Civilian brand

  40. #40
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    For the guys with one of these or the Young Turk, does the rear brake caliper slide with the rear wheel? It looks that way. I have track ends on a bike now and this looks better.

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    Yes, the caliper mounts to the sliding dropout. I need to find out the availability of dropouts in case I tweak a derailleur hanger.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by pachaugbrad View Post
    Yes, the caliper mounts to the sliding dropout. I need to find out the availability of dropouts in case I tweak a derailleur hanger.
    Thanks. Are these sliders specific to each builder? If the company is owned by Backcountry, than they'd be good on warrantees, no?

    Also, has a anybody seen the range of chainstay lengths? They list 17.5, but with sliders it will change. The Salsa El Mar gets a little on the long side when sliding out (18+).
    Last edited by SS Hack; 06-17-2012 at 03:00 PM.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    Thanks. Are these sliders specific to each builder? If the company is owned by Backcountry, than they'd be good on warrantees, no?

    Also, has a anybody seen the range of chainstay lengths? They list 17.5, but with sliders it will change. The Salsa El Mar gets a little on the long side when sliding out (18+).
    On competitive cyclist they list the chain stay length as 17.3-18.1 inches. So I would venture to say the chain stays are 18.1 inches when the sliding dropouts are fully slid out.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zakman View Post
    On competitive cyclist they list the chain stay length as 17.3-18.1 inches. So I would venture to say the chain stays are 18.1 inches when the sliding dropouts are fully slid out.
    I like the sound of the short end. Not short, not super long. Hopefully we get more intel soon.

  45. #45
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    So want to pull the string and possibly set up as 1x9 with the old 26er sitting in the garage.

    Like the geo short head tube sloping top tube short seat post and long ETT. Now need to decide between sizes I normally like right around a 23" ETT.

    Do you single speeder find that ETT should be equal to what you have on your Full suspension bikes?
    XC, Road, XXC, Endurance, Mtn, All-Mtn, Cross, Gravel, just go have fun on 2 wheels!

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by HEMIjer View Post
    So want to pull the string and possibly set up as 1x9 with the old 26er sitting in the garage.

    Like the geo short head tube sloping top tube short seat post and long ETT. Now need to decide between sizes I normally like right around a 23" ETT.

    Do you single speeder find that ETT should be equal to what you have on your Full suspension bikes?
    I just ordered a large last night. If you are anywhere near northern va you are welcome to check it out when I get it set up.

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    Must resist urge ...

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    Must resist urge ...
    My final review will go live tomorrow, if anyone is interested. Here's the On-Test post:

    On Test: Civilian Luddite Singlespeed 29er Mountain Bike | Mountain Bike Blog || SINGLETRACKS.COM

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zakman View Post
    I just ordered a large last night. If you are anywhere near northern va you are welcome to check it out when I get it set up.
    Actually close to NOVA fredericksburg area, i think I will jsut go medium, tired of beating my Anthem to death this will keep down on maintainence.
    XC, Road, XXC, Endurance, Mtn, All-Mtn, Cross, Gravel, just go have fun on 2 wheels!

  50. #50
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    will you comment on your fit dgaddis? i see you got a large, how tall are you and howd the geo work out?
    top tube looks longer than im used to

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by clewttu View Post
    will you comment on your fit dgaddis? i see you got a large, how tall are you and howd the geo work out?
    top tube looks longer than im used to
    I'm 5'10" and usually right between mediums and larges. The large Luddite has about the same ETT as my medium Jabberwocky, so that's why I went with the large.

    It's tall. I can stand over the bike, but there's no clearance. I'm lightly tea bagging the top tube basically.

    The bars are higher than I like too...but, I'm a slammed stem kinda guy. With the Luddite's stem all the way down, and flipped to the drop position, I still wish the bars were an inch or so lower. Swapping to a flat bar,and looking for a different headset cap (the stock one is taaaalll) would solve that. It's kind of a trail bike type riding position, a lot more upright than the typical head down a$$ up XC racing position many SS's have, like my Jabber. That's a good thing for some folks, not so much for other folks, just depends on your riding style and how you like to sit.

  52. #52
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    thanks
    im 5'11" but am leaning toward the medium whos top tube is very similar to my current large

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    Yeah, TT length is the number to look at.

  54. #54
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    I'm 5' 10" and will go with a 17" if the reviews come in ok.

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    I am 5'7 leaning toward the medium (which Huck n Roll lists as 17") and has a 15" seat tube. I ride a bike now with similar Top Tube so think it would be bette thean the shorter 22" on the small.
    XC, Road, XXC, Endurance, Mtn, All-Mtn, Cross, Gravel, just go have fun on 2 wheels!

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    Nice review! If I were looking for a fully rigid bike, the Luddite definitely looks like a great bike for the money, especially at the $785 Huck & Roll sale price. But by the time I added a suspension fork to a 27lb bike (presumed weight of an XL size), it would be north of 30lbs. Given my body weight, a 30lb bike is nothing, but still . . .

    Thanks again for the solid review. It looks like the Luddite will give the Kona Unit and the Redline Monocog Flight a run for their money. If anyone adds a susp fork to his Luddite, please post photos and a review.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Tiki View Post
    Nice review! If I were looking for a fully rigid bike, the Luddite definitely looks like a great bike for the money, especially at the $785 Huck & Roll sale price. But by the time I added a suspension fork to a 27lb bike (presumed weight of an XL size), it would be north of 30lbs. Given my body weight, a 30lb bike is nothing, but still . . .

    Thanks again for the solid review. It looks like the Luddite will give the Kona Unit and the Redline Monocog Flight a run for their money. If anyone adds a susp fork to his Luddite, please post photos and a review.
    I believe the Civilian Young Turk is the same frame as the Luddite but comes with gears and a suspension fork. I think I saw a weight of 28 lbs floating around somewhere. You can probably drop close to a pound just by getting rid of the Neverolls.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zakman View Post
    I believe the Civilian Young Turk is the same frame as the Luddite but comes with gears and a suspension fork. I think I saw a weight of 28 lbs floating around somewhere. You can probably drop close to a pound just by getting rid of the Neverolls.
    The Young Turk has to be 30+lbs. The Luddite is over 27lbs with pedals. Adding a suspension fork will add at least two pounds, and a 1x drivetrain will add at least 1 more pound.

    That said, if you want suspension, the Young Turk is probably the way to go, probably less expensive than buying the Luddite and a fork. Then either move the shifty bits over to another bike, or sell 'em to get a little $$ back.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zakman View Post
    I believe the Civilian Young Turk is the same frame as the Luddite but comes with gears and a suspension fork. I think I saw a weight of 28 lbs floating around somewhere. You can probably drop close to a pound just by getting rid of the Neverolls.

    I'm betting on close to a three pound weight loss from a stock set of arch ex's, RaRa's, and going tubless. Swap the seatpost and bars with some lighter spec'd parts and you're rolling at 23 or under for reasonable money.
    Hopefully this will hold me over until I can build up a real blinglespeed.
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    Thanks for the review! I like the idea that the bike's geo is a hair more "trail bike" than typical XC - it gives me a lame reason to buy one.

    Could it run a 120mm fork? Justing thinking out loud. Did anyone else get their's? What about the guy that was going to pass it off as a yard sale bike, did that work?

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    Mine is scheduled for delivery this coming Monday. I might not make it in the trail for a proper review until next weekend though.
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    id think a 120 fork would be ok
    but youd want to check with civilian as far as how that might affect warranty, if thats a concern

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    Quote Originally Posted by clewttu View Post
    id think a 120 fork would be ok
    but youd want to check with civilian as far as how that might affect warranty, if thats a concern
    Thanks - I'd ride rigid, but I like options.

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    Got this response about the Y'Turk being removed from HnR:

    Mike N.: So we received those bikes, and there were a couple of frmes that didn't meet the finish standard that we wanted.
    Mike N.: We're holding off shipping those bikes until we can check all of them and determing that they are up to our quality standard.

    I'd still try the Luddite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dgaddis1 View Post
    The Young Turk has to be 30+lbs. The Luddite is over 27lbs with pedals. Adding a suspension fork will add at least two pounds, and a 1x drivetrain will add at least 1 more pound.

    That said, if you want suspension, the Young Turk is probably the way to go, probably less expensive than buying the Luddite and a fork. Then either move the shifty bits over to another bike, or sell 'em to get a little $$ back.
    Yes, but the Young Turk comes with Elixer 3's instead of BB7's - a step in the wrong direction for me. And the YT is likely 30lbs. For the cost of replacing the wheels, tires and tubes (and any cockpit parts), you could probably buy Salsa El Mar 2, which, in size large, weighs 27 lbs, geared and that's with tubes and heavy tires. In other words, I think you could get into a more proven, lighter bike with better resale value for less money than retro-fitting a Luddite or Young Turk.

    And on the crazy-expensive-build end of the spectrum, have you seen the new Niner SIR9 ? Wow! Large frame naked weighs 4.5lbs, and painted with rear maxle and seat clamp installed weighs 5.25lbs. That said, I am sure I'd wind up spending $3k or more building a SS SIR9.

    But for a more sensibly priced complete bike, both the Young Turk and Luddite look great. I can't wait to see more photos and ride reports as they start arriving.

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    That new sir is awesome.
    Hopefully one day I'll be able to build a sir up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Possum Jones View Post
    That new sir is awesome.
    Hopefully one day I'll be able to build a sir up.
    I'm in the same boat. I have a monocog flight that is slightly too small for me and the suspension fork is nothing to brag about. But if the frame fit me, I wouldn't even be looking at Luddites, SIR9's, Selmas, and El Mariachias. Point is, I bet the Luddite puts a grin on your face - any bike you're riding is better than a bike you don't have.

    Post lots of photos when you get your Luddite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    Thanks for the review! I like the idea that the bike's geo is a hair more "trail bike" than typical XC - it gives me a lame reason to buy one.

    Could it run a 120mm fork? Justing thinking out loud. Did anyone else get their's? What about the guy that was going to pass it off as a yard sale bike, did that work?
    I haven't received mine yet. I have a package from huck n roll scheduled for delivery on Monday and one for Tuesday. I am sure Monday is the free jersey and tuesday is the bike.

    My wife is way too smart to believe that it is a used bike so I told her about it. It turns out she and I have different opinions of what "reasonably priced" is. I told her it was under $800 and she almost flipped. She said it had better have been under $100. That was the end of it but I am sure I will hear more about it on Tuesday. There are only so many places you can hide a bike in a 3 bedroom house.

    I am not going to argue with the only guy who has actually ridden one but huck n roll and amazon list the Luddite's weight as 25 lbs for a large and the Young Turk as 28 I am sure the Luddite is 26.6 lbs but I am crossing my fingers that when mine comes it is only 25 lbs. Doesn't matter to me either way, I would have bought one anyway.

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    An extra 2 lbs of bike weight is less than 1% of my body weight. I suspect there may be some elite athletes and other disciplined riders on this forum with body fat content of less than 6%, but most of us can shed 2 lbs of fat (or in my case 10lbs). While I get overly concerned with bike and part weights like many on this forum, the reality is I should buy the bike that fits my needs, budget, and peculiar aesthetic sense, then lose the weight by riding that bike. But what would happen to the mtbr forums if we all did that?

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    I ordered my Luddite last Tuesday and just got it yesterday. Put it together and converted it to ghetto tubeless last night. Going for my first ride tomorrow morning. I'll try to remember to take pics.

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    I haven't weighed it yet but it seems heavier than my aluminum, geared 26er (which I sold to buy the Luddite). I'm not super concerned about weight though. I carry a camelback full of water and spare parts and tools on every ride.

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    For those that are getting it from Huck N Roll, I'd also be curious to see if their build service lives up to their copy writers hype. What colors are people going for?

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    I don't know how they handle their distribution after the mergers/acquisitions, but I suspect the Civilian brand is handled by the CC guys, regardless of which of the company's websites one orders from. Given that, I am sure the build and packaging will be top-flight.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    For those that are getting it from Huck N Roll, I'd also be curious to see if their build service lives up to their copy writers hype. What colors are people going for?
    not sure what reservations you might have, but their customer service is top flight, and looks like their builds are too, this is a pick of the packaged bike from the on test review dgaddis already posted



    im also in the not concerned about the weight category, it seems to come in 1 or 2 pounds at least below comparable bikes (monocog flight, kona unit) from what ive seen posted by others here on mtbr

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    5'10" rider here...i went with a large based on a TT measurement similar to my large el mariachi, which fits me well. i pulled the trigger last weekend (went with mojito) and am eagerly awaiting the bike's arrival. one package is due here monday, but the other hasn't shipped yet so i'm not sure what's up; hopefully they threw everything in one box.

    right now the plan is to swap the 2.3 nevegals to my el mariachi, and move 2.2 x-kings to the luddite, both set up tubeless. figure that should drop a bit of weight from the luddite, and i've been wanting to go a bit larger on the el mar for a while.

    i'll chime in with something after i get it rolling.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by clewttu View Post
    not sure what reservations you might have, but their customer service is top flight, and looks like their builds are too, this is a pick of the packaged bike from the on test review dgaddis already posted



    im also in the not concerned about the weight category, it seems to come in 1 or 2 pounds at least below comparable bikes (monocog flight, kona unit) from what ive seen posted by others here on mtbr
    I'm not concerned - just curious as to what the build was like. All my experience with HnR and all Backcounty companies has been top flight.

    On the weight front, just tires and light tubes or a tubeless conversion would do wonders.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocktownrook View Post
    5'10" rider here...i went with a large based on a TT measurement similar to my large el mariachi, which fits me well. i pulled the trigger last weekend (went with mojito) and am eagerly awaiting the bike's arrival. one package is due here monday, but the other hasn't shipped yet so i'm not sure what's up; hopefully they threw everything in one box.

    right now the plan is to swap the 2.3 nevegals to my el mariachi, and move 2.2 x-kings to the luddite, both set up tubeless. figure that should drop a bit of weight from the luddite, and i've been wanting to go a bit larger on the el mar for a while.

    i'll chime in with something after i get it rolling.
    Cool! Make sure to post some photos. I like that color a lot, but I think I'll go with Orange.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rocktownrook View Post
    5'10" rider here...i went with a large based on a TT measurement similar to my large el mariachi, which fits me well.
    It'll be interesting to see if you have any standover clearance. I'm the same height, and don't have any clearance.

  80. #80
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    wish the mojito came with the matte fork that the orange comes with...not a fan of glossy or orange

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    Just got back from my ride this morning. I love it but it's going to take some getting used to. This is my first single speed and my first 29er.

    Before my ride. Nice and clean...



    And during...


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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyFeet33 View Post
    Just got back from my ride this morning. I love it but it's going to take some getting used to. This is my first single speed and my first 29er.

    Before my ride. Nice and clean...



    And during...

    Looking good! What size?

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    I got a large. I'm 6' 1" and it seems perfect for me.

  84. #84
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    fyi, all sizes come with a 100mm stem according to CC

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    Oh yeah - put a piece of tape between the front brake cable housing and the fork, right where it first touches it on the crown, just above the top guide. Mine got scuffed up, tape will keep that from happening.

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    Nice looking bike. Thanks for the photos.

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    After looking at these photos, I just realized that Clayton is on the inside of my fork giving a salute. Pretty sweet. I love the attention to detail Tyson used when designing these bikes. I haven't seen anything else like them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by clewttu View Post
    wish the mojito came with the matte fork that the orange comes with...not a fan of glossy or orange
    This is weird; the flat would look cool on the green too. Not a fan of gloss anything on MTBs.

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyFeet33 View Post
    After looking at these photos, I just realized that Clayton is on the inside of my fork giving a salute. Pretty sweet. I love the attention to detail Tyson used when designing these bikes. I haven't seen anything else like them.
    As a graphic designer and marketing guy, I love how well the graphics are done. I can't stand must bike graphics (sorry).

  90. #90
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    Nice pics!!!!
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    I'm a designer too and I totally agree. Most bikes are hideously designed with logos and crap all over the place. That's part of the reason why I bought a Civilian. All of their stuff is tasteful and understated. Their whole brand has been executed extremely well in my opinion.

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    As a graphic designer and marketing guy, I love how well the graphics are done. I can't stand must bike graphics (sorry).
    Same here. I love the clean and uncluttered look.
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    Kona does a pretty good job with their bikes too. But I think Civilian has nailed it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtyFeet33 View Post
    I'm a designer too and I totally agree. Most bikes are hideously designed with logos and crap all over the place. That's part of the reason why I bought a Civilian. All of their stuff is tasteful and understated. Their whole brand has been executed extremely well in my opinion.
    You are right. Typically you have to pay for some really high-end esoteric frame to get clean design. The overall branding is excellent and appears much higher end than the prices would indicate. If they're owned by Backcountry, that would also make sense as their sites and branding are pretty good overall.

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    Mine is coming on Tuesday. I hope to read some reviews after this weekend from the guys who already got them. Hint hint.

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    Young Turk

    I purchased the Young Turk a week ago and I have ridden the young turk twice now and I love it. Awesome bike. I am a 220 lb rider and it handles my weight well (I need to lose about 20 lbs). Not too whippy, and the bike just feels good all around. I used to ride an FSR, and I definitely like the Turk a lot better. The bike gives you some different options like running single speed, which I may try at some point.

    Bottom line, the bike looks awesome and rides awesome. Definitely recommend it. I will post some photos when I get the chance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rippa Shredda View Post
    I purchased the Young Turk a week ago and I have ridden the young turk twice now and I love it. Awesome bike. I am a 220 lb rider and it handles my weight well (I need to lose about 20 lbs). Not too whippy, and the bike just feels good all around. I used to ride an FSR, and I definitely like the Turk a lot better. The bike gives you some different options like running single speed, which I may try at some point.

    Bottom line, the bike looks awesome and rides awesome. Definitely recommend it. I will post some photos when I get the chance.
    Same situation as me! Very different from my FSR, it tracks and rolls/carries it momentum better.

    Just now see Competitive Cyclist selling them for $1149
    If you on the fence about getting either SS or geared version, I say go for it w/ these prices.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rippa Shredda View Post
    I purchased the Young Turk a week ago and I have ridden the young turk twice now and I love it. Awesome bike. I am a 220 lb rider and it handles my weight well (I need to lose about 20 lbs). Not too whippy, and the bike just feels good all around. I used to ride an FSR, and I definitely like the Turk a lot better. The bike gives you some different options like running single speed, which I may try at some point.

    Bottom line, the bike looks awesome and rides awesome. Definitely recommend it. I will post some photos when I get the chance.
    How's the paint on the bike? The reason I ask is that I was planning to get one for my wife and then Huck N Roll pulled them from the site and when I enquired, they said some had bad paint jobs and they were inspecting all the bikes.

    Where did you get it from? If they're 1149, that is a screaming deal. The fork isn't cheap.

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    No issues with the paint or anything with the frame. Pretty well set up from the get go. For the price, I think it is a fairly good deal. Not that it matters much, but the understated graphics are pretty cool. I am not a designer, nor do I know anything about graphics, but I love the way the bike looks. If there are issues with it, it is nothing I am aware of. Great clearance with the single gear up front too.

  100. #100
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    well, i just ordered mine
    btw:
    2 day free shipping through backcountry
    free economy shipping and free jersey through huck-n-roll
    no deals from competitive cyclist

  101. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by clewttu View Post
    well, i just ordered mine
    btw:
    2 day free shipping through backcountry
    free economy shipping and free jersey through huck-n-roll
    no deals from competitive cyclist
    Awesome! Two day free shipping is a better deal. I got my free jersey today and guarantee I will never wear it. My bike should be here tomorrow.
    Last edited by Zakman; 06-25-2012 at 05:06 PM.

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    Unless it's ended, competitive cyclist had 25% off all Civilian bikes earlier today. Does anyone have any experience with the Young Turk? I'd rather have the BB7 brakes instead of the Elixers, but I like the Reba RL fork w/ 15 mm maxle, and converting the Young Turk to SS is a simple fix. For $1,200, the Young Turk looks like a nice SS with a decent fork. But the Salsa El Mar is only a few dollars more (and a few pounds lighter), so Im still on the fence. And the Ti Selma and new SIR9 are also calling my name.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Tiki View Post
    Unless it's ended, competitive cyclist had 25% off all Civilian bikes earlier today. Does anyone have any experience with the Young Turk? I'd rather have the BB7 brakes instead of the Elixers, but I like the Reba RL fork w/ 15 mm maxle, and converting the Young Turk to SS is a simple fix. For $1,200, the Young Turk looks like a nice SS with a decent fork. But the Salsa El Mar is only a few dollars more (and a few pounds lighter), so Im still on the fence. And the Ti Selma and new SIR9 are also calling my name.
    Young Turk does not have the maxle - really wish mine came with it the way it was advertised. For the price you get quite a bit of good parts. I might give a call to ask if paint issues are the real reason the Turks are no longer for sale on the various sites(except Comp. Cyclist - w/ no free ship). Still thinking of returning it and trying the El Mar 3 if there is an issue other the paint as I have read here.

  104. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by pachaugbrad View Post
    Young Turk does not have the maxle - really wish mine came with it the way it was advertised. For the price you get quite a bit of good parts. I might give a call to ask if paint issues are the real reason the Turks are no longer for sale on the various sites(except Comp. Cyclist - w/ no free ship). Still thinking of returning it and trying the El Mar 3 if there is an issue other the paint as I have read here.
    I ordered a small the Young Turk today for my wife. If the paint looks nice, it is nice. I guess they had problems with some units (I was the guy that posted about the paint). The Turk is only on CC now ($99 shipping) and none of the many other sites - I wonder if they're having to look over lots of frames to get good ones to ship and want a little extra money for the trouble?

    The Salsa is nice, but the fork is not as good and they want $1,500 for it and you'd need to pay $1,900 to get one with the Reba compared to $1,124 for the Turk. The main thing lacking on the Turk are the wheels I think.

    How do you like the bike anyway?

  105. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Tiki View Post
    Unless it's ended, competitive cyclist had 25% off all Civilian bikes earlier today.
    yeah its been that way for at least a couple weeks, all 3 sites have the 25% off, doubt it'll go away anytime soon either if at all...hell I won't be surprised to see them on chainlove in a few months at 40-50% off

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    Can anyone confirm how the Reba comes equipped on the Young Turk? 9mm qr?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluidworks View Post
    Can anyone confirm how the Reba comes equipped on the Young Turk? 9mm qr?
    Mine came w/ standard 9mm.

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    I put the Luddite together last night. It is an awesome looking bike that I'm sure will get some compliments. The medium feels just right with the stem slammed. I'm going to ditch the riser bars for some carbon flat bars asap.
    The drive side tensioner bolts were way over torqued. I nearly blew out a filling trying to break them free. That's my one and only complaint. So far...
    We're getting slammed by tropical storm Debbie. Hopefully I'll make the trails this weekend.
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  109. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Possum Jones View Post
    I put the Luddite together last night. It is an awesome looking bike that I'm sure will get some compliments. The medium feels just right with the stem slammed. I'm going to ditch the riser bars for some carbon flat bars asap.
    The drive side tensioner bolts were way over torqued. I nearly blew out a filling trying to break them free. That's my one and only complaint. So far...
    We're getting slammed by tropical storm Debbie. Hopefully I'll make the trails this weekend.
    Was there much to put together? HnR would have you believe you can ride the bike out of the box. What color did you get?

  110. #110
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    Ordered mine around 6pm cst yesterday and its arriving tomorrow with the free 2 day shipping, awesome
    that was 2 hours after the expected cutoff time according to backcountry's shipping info (4pm cst) to get the order out yesterday, but it still got shipped

  111. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    Was there much to put together? HnR would have you believe you can ride the bike out of the box. What color did you get?
    It's pretty much put together. Attach the handlebars to the stem, slide in the seatpost, and put on the wheels. It was even tensioned correctly.

    I bought the Mojito.
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    I got mine today. Heading out on the inaugural ride now. Confirmed 26.6 lbs for a large. I can tell just from the bedding in process the first order of business will be new tires.

    Anyone seen a Civilian Luddite 29er?-imageuploadedbytapatalk1340735968.553239.jpg

    Not the best picture of the bike but as you can see the weather is perfect.

  113. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zakman View Post
    I got mine today. Heading out on the inaugural ride now. Confirmed 26.6 lbs for a large. I can tell just from the bedding in process the first order of business will be new tires.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Not the best picture of the bike but as you can see the weather is perfect.
    Sweat! Are the tires too heavy and slow for you? I'll keep the front maybe, but need something fast for the back.

  114. #114
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    I really like the mojito color. Not quite the Bianchi celeste, but in the same family. It's a nice deviation from the herd of current production bikes.

  115. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    Sweat! Are the tires too heavy and slow for you? I'll keep the front maybe, but need something fast for the back.
    I can't speak for zakman, but I've had a nevagal as a front before. They're slow rolling and heavy. I'm pretty sure they're 800+ grams a piece. That's way too much IMO. Especially with tubes.

    I ordered a stock set of arch ex with the ztr hubs and a 2.4 RaRa to go with the 2.2 I have now for the back. Also a 700mm Noir T30 flat carbon bar. The alu riser that came stock is not gonna work for me. I'm done throwing money at this for now. It should be a sweet set up once it's all together.
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  116. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Possum Jones View Post
    I can't speak for zakman, but I've had a nevagal as a front before. They're slow rolling and heavy. I'm pretty sure they're 800+ grams a piece. That's way too much IMO. Especially with tubes.

    I ordered a stock set of arch ex with the ztr hubs and a 2.4 RaRa to go with the 2.2 I have now for the back. Also a 700mm Noir T30 flat carbon bar. The alu riser that came stock is not gonna work for me. I'm done throwing money at this for now. It should be a sweet set up once it's all together.
    That is heavy; Rampages are only a little over 700 grams. Post some photos when you're done. Wheels and tires will make the bike much lighter.

  117. #117
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    I had my first ride today, about 10.5 miles. I normally do this loop in an hour and change on my Stumpjumper SS. I did it in 1:05 on the Luddite. Wasn't really pushing it so i was surprised at the time. The bike felt slow and heavy on the climbs but i think that will be solved by new tires and wheels. I do this loop on my full squish 26er in about 1:05 too and that is with really bombing the downhills. I was not bombing the downhills on the Luddite so even though it felt slow and heavy the bike must of been climbing well.

    I love the fork. I haven't ridden a rigid bike before but this fork feels light and stiff to me. It goes where you point it and holds the line. I used the brakes a whole lot less on this bike than on my stumpy.

    I love the feel of the bike. The + rise stem and riser bars definitely give it more of a trail bike feel. The Nevegals are slow rolling and heavy. They will be switched out shortly. I've ridden them before and I didn't keep them long that time either. I have a pair of 2.2 Captain Controls that I will probably put on for the time being.

    Nothing on the bike is light but it all works. Just about anything you switch out will result in a weight savings. Even the lock ring on the rear hub looks heavy.

    This is my first experience with BB7s and I can see why people like them so much. The rear brake needed a bit of adjustment out of the box, too much play in the lever. It took me about 20 seconds of looking at them to figure out what needed to be done and to do it. Probably would of had to do a bleed on my elixirs.

    The bike came mostly together. Put the wheels on, put the bars on, put the seat post on, add pedals and your done. Two tiny complaints about the condition of the bike upon arrival. It was missing one zip tie for the rear brake cable and the front brake cable needs an end cap.

    The bolts to adjust the sliding dropouts are standard run of the mill bolts. I think hex bolts might have been better.

    I think it is a great deal at $786.75. Most of the money is definitely in the frame and fork.

    I plan on getting new wheels for off road use. I also will probably get a set of stock Arch EXs. That combined with new tires will probably be close to a 2 lbs weight savings where it counts the most.

    I will probably put a set of slicks on the stock wheels and use them for commuting and family bike rides.

    All in all I am very pleased.

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    Zakman - thanks for the nice post-ride review. Glad you are liking your bike. I'll be curious to see your bike weight after the tire/wheel upgrade.

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    Nice mini-review Zakman; this is very helpful. I'll be interested to hear what you think when you change out the wheels and tires. The tires are very heavy and they most likely have big heavy tubes as well. I also think it's is interesting that you kept the same time as your 26er FS. BB7s are great brakes, but a pain to dial in when first installed (at least for me).

  120. #120
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    i also will be swapping the tires out for some 2.35 nobby nics, nevegals are the suck
    really would like to stay off the nevegals while waiting on the NN though so i can sell them as new...but thats gonna be tough

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zakman View Post

    The bolts to adjust the sliding dropouts are standard run of the mill bolts. I think hex bolts might have been better.
    One solution: <http://www.paragonmachineworks.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=MS0023> If the link doesn't work, check out ParagonMachineWorks - they have a complete line of aftermarket bolts and parts for sliding dropouts, among other things.

    Looking forward to hearing more about the Luddite and Young Turk as more people start riding them and swapping out stock wheels and tires.
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  122. #122
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    I just ordered mine, Im stoked. I got the free 2-day shipping at backcountry. I got the Large Mojito.

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    Keep the ride reports coming ...

  124. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Possum Jones View Post
    I can't speak for zakman, but I've had a nevagal as a front before. They're slow rolling and heavy. I'm pretty sure they're 800+ grams a piece. That's way too much IMO. Especially with tubes.

    I ordered a stock set of arch ex with the ztr hubs and a 2.4 RaRa to go with the 2.2 I have now for the back. Also a 700mm Noir T30 flat carbon bar. The alu riser that came stock is not gonna work for me. I'm done throwing money at this for now. It should be a sweet set up once it's all together.
    Did you get the regular ZTR hub or the single speed version?

  125. #125
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    no ride report yet (other than a shakedown in my parking garage), but heres what i have:
    I'm 5'11", 32" inseam, normal proportions, main ride is an Ibis Mojo size large with a 23.6" ett and a 70mm stem, also ride a Salsa Fargo in large but i hesitate to compare it since its a drop bar touring/mountain bike...i ordered the medium Luddite with a 23.5" ett, and put on a 70mm spare stem I have (the 100mm feels a bit sluggish)...bike feels really good to me, without having ridden a Large, I would say this is perfect for me (I ride aggressive XC/trail/am/whatever you want to call it, anti racer though)...never owned a ss/rigid 29er but it will be a great compliment to my 26" FS

    packaging and pre-build were well done (properly torqued, greased threads, protected components...even located the tire logos properly)...the only adjustments needed were the brakes which was expected and the rotors seemed to have a slight bend in each one that was easy to straighten out
    bike is beautiful, as has been documented, understated graphics, great color scheme...only niggle is the glossy fork vs matte but i plan to spray can some matte clear coat on it...fork is 3k weave and fades to black at the lower legs, and has the saluting guy and CVLN on the inside of either leg in blue (hard to see in most pics)
    waiting on some 2.35 TLR Nobby Nics next week before i take it on the trail (selling the Nevegals), gonna put some XT 775 hydros on this week that were replaced by the 785's on my mojo (prob gonna sell the BB7's), and have some chinese carbon 9/10mm thru axle wheels on order, will keep the originals for an urban tire set up
    also, came with some spare parts including a slider for a derailleur

    here are some phone pics of it before any mods






















  126. #126
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    mine just showed up a minute ago. i'm a bit disappointed to see that the nevegals are actually 2.2s instead of 2.3s as advertised in the description on hucknroll, as i had plans to move the fat rubber over to my other bike. aside from that, things look good...now i just have to put her together.

  127. #127
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    ha, didnt even notice that
    i had asked them about the tire size though, cuz on backcountry/hucknroll the spec actually lists them as 2.5" nevegals and the description says 2.3", they told me that it was a 2.3", but on kendas site all they list are 2.2" in the 29er size so i figured it must be an oem size

  128. #128
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    Are the tires folding, or some weird wire bead OEM units? I like how the hanger come separate.

  129. #129
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    they are folding/DTC
    Edit: nm, they are wire
    Last edited by clewttu; 07-01-2012 at 12:25 PM.

  130. #130
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    Does the front end feel light with that fork? Or is the boat anchor tire holding it down?

  131. #131
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    front end does feel light, and even more so now that i'm running x-kings tubeless. lightened things up quite a bit as far as i can tell.

    i've only spun around the block thus far, but the bike feels great and seems like a lot of fun. i may sneak a quick ride in at 7pm, but it's 99 degrees here right now so i might flake out.

  132. #132
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    First trail ride tomorrow am.
    My arch ex's and 2.4/2.2 RaRa set up will be here Tuesday along with my truvativ t30 700mm carbon bars. All in time for next weekends epic.
    I'll post up some ride thoughts tomorrow.
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  133. #133
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    Just got back from my ride. I hit my local training trail that I know inside and out. The bike performed wonderfully. The brakes are solid with no adjustments made from the factory. The steal frame was rather plush and the rigid fork is sweet.

    Now, the bad.... The wheel, rubber, and tube combo from the factory is nothing short of horrible. This combo might work for some, but my main ride is a carbon ht with a tubless arch ex / hope combo, so I'm far from used to heavy clunker wheels with heavy rubber and low engagement hubs. I could definitely tell I was rolling on clunkers on the climbs.

    My other gripe is the handlebars. The alu bars are harsh. Carbon bars are going to make a big difference.

    Overall I'm very happy. Especially for the money. I'll post my next ride report once the new wheels and bars are installed. I'm sure they will make a world of difference and make a sweet ride even sweeter.
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  134. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Possum Jones View Post
    Just got back from my ride. I hit my local training trail that I know inside and out. The bike performed wonderfully. The brakes are solid with no adjustments made from the factory. The steal frame was rather plush and the rigid fork is sweet.

    Now, the bad.... The wheel, rubber, and tube combo from the factory is nothing short of horrible. This combo might work for some, but my main ride is a carbon ht with a tubless arch ex / hope combo, so I'm far from used to heavy clunker wheels with heavy rubber and low engagement hubs. I could definitely tell I was rolling on clunkers on the climbs.

    My other gripe is the handlebars. The alu bars are harsh. Carbon bars are going to make a big difference.

    Overall I'm very happy. Especially for the money. I'll post my next ride report once the new wheels and bars are installed. I'm sure they will make a world of difference and make a sweet ride even sweeter.
    Nice report!

  135. #135
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    I am setting my stock wheels up tubeless as we speak. Here are some things I learned. The 2.2 Nevegals have a wire bead and weigh 980 grams. The inner tubes weigh 210 grams. I just finished my rear wheel. Set it up with one layer of gorilla tape, 90 grams of Stan's and a 710 gram Captain control 2.2. I figure the tape and the rim strip i removed are a wash and 10 grams for the valve stem. So I saved about 380 grams on the rear wheel alone just by changing the tire and going tubeless.

  136. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zakman View Post
    I am setting my stock wheels up tubeless as we speak. Here are some things I learned. The 2.2 Nevegals have a wire bead and weigh 980 grams. The inner tubes weigh 210 grams. I just finished my rear wheel. Set it up with one layer of gorilla tape, 90 grams of Stan's and a 710 gram Captain control 2.2. I figure the tape and the rim strip i removed are a wash and 10 grams for the valve stem. So I saved about 380 grams on the rear wheel alone just by changing the tire and going tubeless.
    Wire beads after all! Did you weigh the stock wheels?

  137. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    Wire beads after all! Did you weigh the stock wheels?
    Tried to but I couldn't get them to balance on my kitchen scale.

  138. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zakman View Post
    Tried to but I couldn't get them to balance on my kitchen scale.
    Thanks. The wheels aren't that bad on paper. The tires are a joke.

  139. #139
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    I'm going to order one of these this week. This fits the bill of my 29er dilemma perfectly. I almost ordered from Competitive Cyclist then I saw Huck n Roll saves me $100 on shipping. Awesome. So pumped for my first 29er.
    Vermonter - bikes, beers and skis.

  140. #140
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    I finished working on my bike for the day. I shaved 890 grams off the fat girl for the cost of a roll of gorilla tape. (Which my wife thinks is too much money to have spent). Everything else I already owned. On top of the new tires and tubeless setup (which cut 760 grams) I put on a KMC 8.99 chain. Same number of links saved 109 grams. Eighteen tooth Chris King cog cut 17 grams and a different lock ring (needed one with longer threads after having had to used different spacers to account for the wider base cog) cut 4 grams. The spacers were a wash.

  141. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTSession View Post
    I'm going to order one of these this week. This fits the bill of my 29er dilemma perfectly. I almost ordered from Competitive Cyclist then I saw Huck n Roll saves me $100 on shipping. Awesome. So pumped for my first 29er.
    Check through the earlier posts. Competitive Cyclist or Backcountry was offering free 2 day shipping the other day. Huck n roll is free standard shipping which took about a week for me.

  142. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zakman View Post
    Check through the earlier posts. Competitive Cyclist or Backcountry was offering free 2 day shipping the other day. Huck n roll is free standard shipping which took about a week for me.
    As of today Competitive Cyclist wanted $99 for ground shipping (yikes!). I don't mind waiting an extra few days for the bike from Huck n Roll if the shipping is free.
    Vermonter - bikes, beers and skis.

  143. #143
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    Jamis exile comp

    hi guys quick question ,,,i need your opinion on a 29er ...ita jamis exile comp 2012 priced at 1100 bucks ,,,but the issue is i am a cylde at 6'5 371lbs ,,, i love the bike but dont know ANYTHING about jamis bikes ,,, my window to purchase is small as rthis is the last one available in my size ,,,,is this a fair starting point , just doing some xc-ing just starting out.......i do know i will need to upgrade the fork.................please help mtbr crew !!!!

  144. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zakman View Post
    I finished working on my bike for the day. I shaved 890 grams off the fat girl for the cost of a roll of gorilla tape. (Which my wife thinks is too much money to have spent). Everything else I already owned. On top of the new tires and tubeless setup (which cut 760 grams) I put on a KMC 8.99 chain. Same number of links saved 109 grams. Eighteen tooth Chris King cog cut 17 grams and a different lock ring (needed one with longer threads after having had to used different spacers to account for the wider base cog) cut 4 grams. The spacers were a wash.
    Well played!
    Two pound simple weight loss ftw!
    I'm looking forward to putting nice wheels and lighter rubber on this week.
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  145. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Possum Jones View Post
    Well played!
    Two pound simple weight loss ftw!
    I'm looking forward to putting nice wheels and lighter rubber on this week.
    Nothing beats lighter rubber.
    2010 Lajolla lightweight aluminum cruiser

  146. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zakman View Post
    I finished working on my bike for the day. I shaved 890 grams off the fat girl for the cost of a roll of gorilla tape. (Which my wife thinks is too much money to have spent). Everything else I already owned. On top of the new tires and tubeless setup (which cut 760 grams) I put on a KMC 8.99 chain. Same number of links saved 109 grams. Eighteen tooth Chris King cog cut 17 grams and a different lock ring (needed one with longer threads after having had to used different spacers to account for the wider base cog) cut 4 grams. The spacers were a wash.
    Have you ridden it yet?

  147. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    Have you ridden it yet?
    I probably won't have the chance to ride it until Tuesday.

  148. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTSession View Post
    As of today Competitive Cyclist wanted $99 for ground shipping (yikes!). I don't mind waiting an extra few days for the bike from Huck n Roll if the shipping is free.
    backcountry has free 2 day shipping

    Quote Originally Posted by rowe925 View Post
    Nothing beats lighter rubber.
    i prefer no rubber

  149. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by clewttu View Post
    no ride report yet (other than a shakedown in my parking garage), but heres what i have:
    I'm 5'11", 32" inseam, normal proportions, main ride is an Ibis Mojo size large with a 23.6" ett and a 70mm stem, also ride a Salsa Fargo in large but i hesitate to compare it since its a drop bar touring/mountain bike...i ordered the medium Luddite with a 23.5" ett, and put on a 70mm spare stem I have (the 100mm feels a bit sluggish)...bike feels really good to me, without having ridden a Large, I would say this is perfect for me (I ride aggressive XC/trail/am/whatever you want to call it, anti racer though)...never owned a ss/rigid 29er but it will be a great compliment to my 26" FS

    packaging and pre-build were well done (properly torqued, greased threads, protected components...even located the tire logos properly)...the only adjustments needed were the brakes which was expected and the rotors seemed to have a slight bend in each one that was easy to straighten out
    bike is beautiful, as has been documented, understated graphics, great color scheme...only niggle is the glossy fork vs matte but i plan to spray can some matte clear coat on it...fork is 3k weave and fades to black at the lower legs, and has the saluting guy and CVLN on the inside of either leg in blue (hard to see in most pics)
    waiting on some 2.35 TLR Nobby Nics next week before i take it on the trail (selling the Nevegals), gonna put some XT 775 hydros on this week that were replaced by the 785's on my mojo (prob gonna sell the BB7's), and have some chinese carbon 9/10mm thru axle wheels on order, will keep the originals for an urban tire set up
    also, came with some spare parts including a slider for a derailleur

    here are some phone pics of it before any mods





















    Did you order from Backcountry or HnR? I noticed it disappeared from HnR ...

  150. #150
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    backcountry

  151. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by clewttu View Post
    backcountry
    It's weird how many sites they have and how stuff comes and goes from some sites. Still a great company however.

    On the plus side: Backcountry has a forever return policy compared to 60 days at the others. So try to break the frame now.

  152. #152
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    its still up on huck n roll
    edit: well, it was, then 5 seconds later, gone...then after a couple refreshes, back up...weird

  153. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by clewttu View Post
    its still up on huck n roll
    edit: well, it was, then 5 seconds later, gone...then after a couple refreshes, back up...weird
    Maybe mountain bikers are bad IT people.

  154. #154
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    I got it today!

    You guys were right , tires are terrible, I switched them to small block 8's. I also had a Thomson stem laying around so I put that on there. I have a carbon post somewhere that I am also going to add. Bike rides great, very different from my Jabberwocky. I am looking forward to an Independence day ride!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Anyone seen a Civilian Luddite 29er?-101_0283.jpg  

    Anyone seen a Civilian Luddite 29er?-101_0284.jpg  

    Anyone seen a Civilian Luddite 29er?-101_0285.jpg  


  155. #155
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    Joshua_B: what was the biggest difference you noticed compared to the Jabber so far?

  156. #156
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    The geometry is totally different, that is what stood out first thing. You get a much more upright position. I really like the bike, but I would not use it for any 12 or 24 hour races. To me the Jabber has much better geometry for being on it for a long time. The Luddite is a super fun bike that begs to be ridden very aggressive. It wants to be jumped and whipped around. It's a great bike!

  157. #157
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    Just received an e-mail from Huck n' Roll, 25% off Civilian bikes! Check it out!

  158. #158
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    little late to the party, theyve been on sale a while now

  159. #159
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    Fork

    If you look at the fork on the Luddite, at the bottom it goes from carbon to black, is the fork still carbon or is it fiberglass weaved to the carbon? Because the dropouts appear to be fiberglass to me?

  160. #160
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    i assumed it was full carbon but didnt really look that closely at mine
    its listed as a bevato fork, and this is the one in their lineup i would think it is (described as full carbon)

  161. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by clewttu View Post
    little late to the party, theyve been on sale a while now
    No reason to go out and impulse buy one then... Damn female marketing almost got me.

  162. #162
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    yeah, i mentioned it earlier, but they probably wont go back up in price, they usually mark down their in house stuff from list price pretty quickly and keep it there or go lower (like stoic clothing/gear) and at some point these will prob end up on chainlove when they are ready to clear them out for the next years paint job

  163. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua_B View Post
    The geometry is totally different, that is what stood out first thing. You get a much more upright position. I really like the bike, but I would not use it for any 12 or 24 hour races. To me the Jabber has much better geometry for being on it for a long time. The Luddite is a super fun bike that begs to be ridden very aggressive. It wants to be jumped and whipped around. It's a great bike!
    Great to hear. I'm building a Salsa El Mar and it has geo somewhat like your Jabber, so now I have more reasons to buy the Luddite (and excuses). Sounds like a fun bike indeed.

  164. #164
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    The Luddite went on a diet today. It'll be Saturday before I'm at the lbs for an official weigh in, but I'm thinking it dropped at least three pounds.
    I mounted up my archex with a 2.4 RaRa in the front and a 2.25 RoRo in the back. For kicks I threw the stock front wheel with tire/tube/rotor on my kitchen scale it weighed ~2500 grams. The archex with the rotor, RaRa and stans weighed ~1650. I imagine the difference in rear wheels is about the same. Nice.
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  165. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Possum Jones View Post
    The Luddite went on a diet today. It'll be Saturday before I'm at the lbs for an official weigh in, but I'm thinking it dropped at least three pounds.
    I mounted up my archex with a 2.4 RaRa in the front and a 2.25 RoRo in the back. For kicks I threw the stock front wheel with tire/tube/rotor on my kitchen scale it weighed ~2500 grams. The archex with the rotor, RaRa and stans weighed ~1650. I imagine the difference in rear wheels is about the same. Nice.
    Looking forward to the weigh in; sounds like around 3+ pounds of lose.

  166. #166
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    I'm in the trailhead parking lot now, speechless with a perma-grin! This bike just got super fast. I knew the wheels were going to improve the ride, but this thing's a rocket. I get the rigid SS thing now. Badass.
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  167. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Possum Jones View Post
    I'm in the trailhead parking lot now, speechless with a perma-grin! This bike just got super fast. I knew the wheels were going to improve the ride, but this thing's a rocket. I get the rigid SS thing now. Badass.
    It is super fun. It is the only bike I want to ride now.

  168. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zakman View Post
    I finished working on my bike for the day. I shaved 890 grams off the fat girl for the cost of a roll of gorilla tape. (Which my wife thinks is too much money to have spent). Everything else I already owned. On top of the new tires and tubeless setup (which cut 760 grams) I put on a KMC 8.99 chain. Same number of links saved 109 grams. Eighteen tooth Chris King cog cut 17 grams and a different lock ring (needed one with longer threads after having had to used different spacers to account for the wider base cog) cut 4 grams. The spacers were a wash.
    How did the tubeless setup go? Any tips? I noticed the stock rims are very tight with most tires.

  169. #169
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    Hi everyone, first post!

    I am about to pull the trigger on one of these, and I was just curious what size to get. I'm 6'5" and I'm guessing around a 35" inseam. I'm guessing I should probably just go with the XL? Better to be too big than too small right?

    Thanks for any suggestions,
    Dan

  170. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danner182 View Post
    Hi everyone, first post!

    I am about to pull the trigger on one of these, and I was just curious what size to get. I'm 6'5" and I'm guessing around a 35" inseam. I'm guessing I should probably just go with the XL? Better to be too big than too small right?

    Thanks for any suggestions,
    Dan
    I am 6'1 and 3/4 and the large fits me perfect. If you have a friend who can help, I believe the competitive cyclist website has a fit calculator. At 6'5 I think you would be XL maybe even boardering on XXL if they have one.

  171. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    How did the tubeless setup go? Any tips? I noticed the stock rims are very tight with most tires.
    Tubeless set up was a breeze once I got the stock tires off. They really didn't want to budge. At first I used two layers of gorilla tape but that made it too tight. Pulled one layer off and and no problems from there. Tires inflated with just a top peak joe blow sport floor pump and I wasn't even pumping fast. They inflated so easily that I felt like I could have used a mini pump and it would have worked. The bead popped into place no problem the first time. I brought the bike to work the next day so I could stop for a ride on the way home. When I was putting the bike on my roof rack I realized I put the tires on backwards. I took the tires off and carefully flipped them around so as not to spill much sealant. They re-inflated and snapped into place just as easily, this time without the help of soap and water.

    Just follow the Stan's instructions and it should be easy.

  172. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danner182 View Post
    Hi everyone, first post!

    I am about to pull the trigger on one of these, and I was just curious what size to get. I'm 6'5" and I'm guessing around a 35" inseam. I'm guessing I should probably just go with the XL? Better to be too big than too small right?

    Thanks for any suggestions,
    Dan
    as zakman said, use the competitive cyclist fit calculator, its been spot on for me...6'5" seems like you may want the XXL size, but i have no idea

  173. #173
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    Hmmm. Yeah it seems like the XL-T may be in my best interest. I just dont want to have a lot of standover. I'm currently running a 21" Top Tube Specialized and it feels pretty good. Ive always needed at least 21" since I was bmx riding as a teenager. They size chart at Civilians webstie says the virtual top tube is 26" long on the XLT. I wonder how close it is to 21" from stem to seat post on the top tube.

  174. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danner182 View Post
    Hmmm. Yeah it seems like the XL-T may be in my best interest. I just dont want to have a lot of standover. I'm currently running a 21" Top Tube Specialized and it feels pretty good. Ive always needed at least 21" since I was bmx riding as a teenager. They size chart at Civilians webstie says the virtual top tube is 26" long on the XLT. I wonder how close it is to 21" from stem to seat post on the top tube.
    You can use the archive on Specialized's website to compare the geometry of your current bike with the geometry of the Luddite. That's what I did before I ordered. The only problem with that is one is listed in inches and the other is metric so you have to do some conversion.

  175. #175
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    My XL Turk fits me @ 6'1 & 35" inseam. Check the fit calculator to be sure TT length is close enough for a small change in stem length to fit. Stand over w/ my XL is about 3.5"

  176. #176
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    I just measured my inseam. Its actually 37.5".....I grew up near power lines.

    Im chatting with someone at backcountry right now, and they are suggesting the XLT model. I guess I have no other choice lol.

  177. #177
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    it takes 5 minutes to measure and fill out the CC calculator, and if you have an account you can save it for future reference (gives road and mtn bike sizing)...id give it a shot before pulling the trigger, not to say it will change your purchase, but should give peace of mind

  178. #178
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    I think at 37.5" inseam I would be too big for XL. I may even be pushing too big for the XLT. I think they built the XLT for a chewbacca size being like myself. I think it will be fine.

    I just pulled the trigger btw.

    Cheers!

  179. #179
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    Received My XLT luddite today, I'm 6'6" 270lbs. Immediately went to the local trail head and did a ride around the lake. It was a blast. The bike rode great, but when i got back the chain had gotten some slack in it so i adjusted it back taught, Went again after my friend got off work and when we got back the sliders had slipped forward again. Any tips on getting it to hold? I set the tension bolt after setting the sliders after the first ride. i was thinking about sanding the paint off, or should i just wait and see if it stops after a few rides?

  180. #180
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    Not exactly what I want to hear. Is this why a lot of people do the vertical drop outs? It seems like other bikes have this same problem too. The damn 2 day free shipping was no longer available either.

    Oh well, I'm still psyched!!

  181. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danner182 View Post
    Not exactly what I want to hear. Is this why a lot of people do the vertical drop outs? It seems like other bikes have this same problem too. The damn 2 day free shipping was no longer available either.

    Oh well, I'm still psyched!!
    Do theses slip for smaller guys, say in the 160 range?

  182. #182
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    I just weighed it out at the lbs. 23.61 as it sits now. It'll be under 23 with the carbon bars and new stim. I can live with that.
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  183. #183
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    Went for my first real ride yesterday, first time on a ss or rigid so it's hard to have a good take...while I'm sold on ss, rigid will take some getting used too, or I'll throw a susp fork on it, I def see how it can make you a better rider physically/technique coming from 4 years of 140mm fs riding since the last time I even had a hardtail...that said, the geo is really nice, trail bike feel, fun to rail and great on flow, throwing on 70mm stem was a drastic improvement in handling, also swapped 2.35 nobby nice and xt hydros, all combined dropped about a pound, waiting on wheels/tubeless

    No issue with chain tension as above

  184. #184
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    haven't been doing much riding lately, but i finally got my bike where i want it to be. the 18T cog was just way too tall for the riding around here, so i swapped it out for a 22T surly cog yesterday. however, the stock chain was too short so i had to pick up another chain this morning (in case anyone else is thinking of going to a 22T). this gearing's much more reasonable when it comes to rocky technical stuff with lots of climbing, at least for me.

  185. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocktownrook View Post
    haven't been doing much riding lately, but i finally got my bike where i want it to be. the 18T cog was just way too tall for the riding around here, so i swapped it out for a 22T surly cog yesterday. however, the stock chain was too short so i had to pick up another chain this morning (in case anyone else is thinking of going to a 22T). this gearing's much more reasonable when it comes to rocky technical stuff with lots of climbing, at least for me.
    I'll need to go either 21t or 22t for our mountains and my current slightly out of shape condition. Do you think 21t would work?

  186. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    I'll need to go either 21t or 22t for our mountains and my current slightly out of shape condition. Do you think 21t would work?
    i would think so. if i knew i'd need a longer chain for 22T, i probably would've just gone with a 21T cog. that said, i'm not 100% sure you'll have enough chain for 21T, but you might.

  187. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocktownrook View Post
    i would think so. if i knew i'd need a longer chain for 22T, i probably would've just gone with a 21T cog. that said, i'm not 100% sure you'll have enough chain for 21T, but you might.
    I have an extra chain that is lighter anyway. How's it climb with the 22t? Does the front wheel stay on the ground?

  188. #188
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    I just finished up my first ride at an imba certified trail on the SS. We don't have the long extended climbs here in Florida, but we do have plenty of short steep rocky tech. I PR'd or second bested all my times on strava today. I would say SS rigid is definitely fast
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  189. #189
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    This will be my first 29er period, let alone Ss rigid. My current rig is a FS geared 26". Is it a bear to crank up hills on a SS? I left my bike in one gear today, and it was rough.

  190. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danner182 View Post
    This will be my first 29er period, let alone Ss rigid. My current rig is a FS geared 26". Is it a bear to crank up hills on a SS? I left my bike in one gear today, and it was rough.
    It depends on the gear; but SS can be harder. On the plus side, you'll be an animal after a while. What gear were you in?

  191. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    I have an extra chain that is lighter anyway. How's it climb with the 22t? Does the front wheel stay on the ground?
    just got back from my first real ride. the bike climbs very well with the 22T cog. only a few short steep pitches on this ride, but the front end never really felt like it wanted to lift.

    but as well as the big cog works for climbing, i still wished i had lower gearing in rocky sections. i suppose i'll figure out what i'm doing and get stronger eventually, but there's definitely a bit of a learning curve when it comes to riding that stuff. that, and remembering to stay well back since there's no give up front.

    but riding a rigid bike in technical stuff seems to be simultaneously more difficult in the sense that it takes more concentration, but more secure in that you can count on where your wheel's gonna be when you decide to put it somewhere.

  192. #192
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    I have a hardtail geared 26, not Full suspension. I was in 3 and 4 i believe.

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    longer ride this morning...this bike's a blast to ride. a few climbs defeated me, but it's surprising what you can pull when you don't have a choice. over the course of a couple hours i could feel myself getting much better at choosing lines through rocky sections, and it really made me conscious of how little i pay attention to line selection on my el mar (w/reba fork).

    surprisingly, i found i can run my front tire at lower pressure (23-24 psi; x-king 2.2 tubeless) on this bike than i could on the el mar (where i ran the same tire closer to 30 up front). i suppose it's not that surprising, though, when you think about how much more you pay attention to line selection and what you're rolling over. rear pressure was about the same as usual.

  195. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocktownrook View Post
    longer ride this morning...this bike's a blast to ride. a few climbs defeated me, but it's surprising what you can pull when you don't have a choice. over the course of a couple hours i could feel myself getting much better at choosing lines through rocky sections, and it really made me conscious of how little i pay attention to line selection on my el mar (w/reba fork).

    surprisingly, i found i can run my front tire at lower pressure (23-24 psi; x-king 2.2 tubeless) on this bike than i could on the el mar (where i ran the same tire closer to 30 up front). i suppose it's not that surprising, though, when you think about how much more you pay attention to line selection and what you're rolling over. rear pressure was about the same as usual.
    No shame in walking every now and again on a SS; it is expected even in races. Low pressure is your friend.

  196. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danner182 View Post
    I have a hardtail geared 26, not Full suspension. I was in 3 and 4 i believe.
    Figure out the gear inches and then translate to the 29er.

  197. #197
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    I forgot the bike doesnt come with pedals. I have some light weight platform choices narrowed down. On a white bike, would white pedals work, or just stick with black? I know silly question, but Im just curious what most people use on white bikes.

  198. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danner182 View Post
    I forgot the bike doesnt come with pedals. I have some light weight platform choices narrowed down. On a white bike, would white pedals work, or just stick with black? I know silly question, but Im just curious what most people use on white bikes.
    They don't make a white version anyway - so black.

  199. #199
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    The bike im buying is a white/green haze called marlite. It kinda looks white, maybe im just color blind.

  200. #200
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    Civilian Luddite? It comes in mojito, its a mint green

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