8 cogs on a SS hub working flawlessly (1x8 Glory!)- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    8 cogs on a SS hub working flawlessly (1x8 Glory!)

    Got the setup working last night - had a stiff link in the chain that was causing ghost-shifting problems.

    The Details:
    Hope Pro 2 SS Hub
    10s XT Dynasys Cassette (11-36, CS-M771-10) shimano schematic
    CN-HG74 Chain (SLX level)
    12T lockring
    Sram X.7 2011 10s Medium cage RD
    Sram x.7 2011 10s Rear Shifter

    Mods:
    1. Remove 3mm from the back of the largest 3-cog carrier (28-32-36)
    2. Install both 3-cog carriers and replace 15T cog+spacer with 13T (this allows the 8th cog to engage the splines as the 13T has a built-in spacer, whereas the 15T does not)
    3. Final gearing is 13-17-19-21-24-28-32-36
    4. I added a ~2mm spacer (washer from the parts bin) to space out the derailleur to get more clearance from the 36T cog

    Result:
    Perfect shifting and lightweight wheel! I think I shaved about 75g by changing from some heavy WTB rim to an Arch and the difference is super noticeable. Another 150g to go on the tire and I'll be flying. Pics of the setup here: http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?...&postcount=180

  2. #2
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    Wow. That is the first setup I've seen on a SS hub that seems worth the time and effort. From the look of your pictures make the setup could be straight from the factory (a SRAM/Shimano factory that is). 13-36 is a nice broad spectrum of gears. Nicely done.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by ppfeifer
    Wow. That is the first setup I've seen on a SS hub that seems worth the time and effort. From the look of your pictures make the setup could be straight from the factory (a SRAM/Shimano factory that is). 13-36 is a nice broad spectrum of gears. Nicely done.
    It would be really simple. The only new machining that would have to happen is to have a 15-17T or 14-17T cog carrier machined that allows for the last cog to engage on the cassette, the rest of the work is done.

  4. #4
    mnt bike laws of physics
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    I was thinking someone would do something like this with the 10-speeds. Good job Alex.
    If you find that the difference between the 13t and 17t is too big you could always get a Miche 14 or 15t final cog which also has the built in spacer.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogiprophet
    I was thinking someone would do something like this with the 10-speeds. Good job Alex.
    If you find that the difference between the 13t and 17t is too big you could always get a Mithe 14 or 15t final cog which also has the built in spacer.
    I've got a 15T 10s cog on order from Shimano just in case, but so far the shifting hasn't been an issue. I've got the bike set up with a 30T cog up front, so I'm actually enjoying having extra speed from the 13T. I'll post back when if my LBS ever receives the part from Shimano (it's been like 5 weeks now).

  6. #6
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    nice work!
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
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  7. #7
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    Forgive me, but...why? Why not use a normal cassette hub?

  8. #8
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    Which hub?


  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodandsteel
    Forgive me, but...why? Why not use a normal cassette hub?
    It allows you to build a stronger dishless wheel.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexkraemer
    Sram X.7 2011 10s Medium cage RD
    Sram x.7 2011 10s Rear Shifter]
    Forgive my ignorance, but is the Sram 10speed stuff still 1:1 pull?

    Edit: Google is my friend.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter
    Which hub?
    Hope Pro II SS

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quadzilla81
    It allows you to build a stronger dishless wheel.
    Yep - normally I would have put a Flow rim on there, but with a SS hub I went with the Arch rim instead.

  13. #13
    Linoleum Knife
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    Nevermind- it was in an earlier post... I get it.

  14. #14
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    since i'm not currently using any 10 spd cogs, but may go 1X8 (similar to the OP's setup) on my new Canfield. What's the consensus on the best chains to use w/ Shimano 10 spd cogs?

    I've had good results with KMC chains, and the better SRAM chains, and I tend to avoid Shimano because of the inconvenience of using fresh pins whenever I need to change chain length.
    Originally posted by bucksaw87
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  15. #15
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    That sounds like just what I've been looking for. I love my Arches for the most part, but the spokes flex too much even with the tall flanges on my XT hubs.

    Some dumb questions: Do you just dial in the limit screws on the derailleur and have two 'clicks' on the shifter that don't do anything? Do you re-center it so one missing shift is at the top and one at the bottom?

    Does this "re-centering" of the derailleur make offsetting it with a washer necessary? Or is that for another reason?

    Lastly, I just got a 10 speed setup: X-9 rear der., X-7 shifter, and an XG-1080 Sram cassette (sweet take-off deal at my LBS). I installed it myself but forget what the spacer orientation is; would this mod be possible with a SRAM XG 1080 cassette (no carriers, biggest 7 cogs joined with pins)?
    Rollin' rocks will never die...

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadedbee
    That sounds like just what I've been looking for. I love my Arches for the most part, but the spokes flex too much even with the tall flanges on my XT hubs.

    Some dumb questions: Do you just dial in the limit screws on the derailleur and have two 'clicks' on the shifter that don't do anything? Do you re-center it so one missing shift is at the top and one at the bottom?

    Does this "re-centering" of the derailleur make offsetting it with a washer necessary? Or is that for another reason?

    Lastly, I just got a 10 speed setup: X-9 rear der., X-7 shifter, and an XG-1080 Sram cassette (sweet take-off deal at my LBS). I installed it myself but forget what the spacer orientation is; would this mod be possible with a SRAM XG 1080 cassette (no carriers, biggest 7 cogs joined with pins)?
    first gear on the shifter = first gear on the cassette works best. You won't have any extra ghost clicks on the low end because a properly set limit screw won't even let the shifter pull the cable into the next position. "Centering" the rear derailleur would leave you with an annoying extra click in the shifter below the first position that only serves to add slack to the cable.


    Washers can be necessary because removing the smaller cogs effectively pushes the rest of the cassette towards the derailleur. Since the derailleur is designed to move down as it moves over, moving the large cogs further outwards towards the derauilleur makes the derailleur sit closer to the cassette since it is "expecting" a smaller cog in that position

  17. #17
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    Ah, thanks for explaining. My X-9 RD came with a fairly long b+ screw which is fully removed to get the spacing SRAM suggests with a 1x10 setup (32t in front). I imagine the length of this screw allows you to get fairly close setting the right distance from the cogs, but good to know about the washer work around if it's not enough for that 36 tooth.

    I will do some searching on the XG-1080 spacing construction, but might be taking it apart to check out my options if I decide to rebuild my rear wheel with a SS hub.

    Thanks for the rabbit hole...
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  18. #18
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    The XG-1080 cassette won't work on a SS hub because you have to machine the inboard side of the cassette carrier. Based on the pictures I've seen of XG-1080, it follows the Sram Red machining where the only cassette engagement is at the innermost and outermost portions of the cassette (see here). If you want to use that cassette, you may only get 6-7 cogs on the carrier.

  19. #19
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    Sram's lower end cassettes also don't seem to be as modular as Shimano's, which makes them less adaptable to this project. The old 9s stuff was the best, as it had 6 cogs on a carrier, but the workable gearing wasn't sufficient for me, so I bumped up to the 10s. The ideal would be to have the 10s stuff on a 6-8 cog carrier.

  20. #20
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    You are correct - machining away the little amount of engagement it has on the inboard cog would not be good. I also didn't find any other sizes of cog/lock-rings for the the outbound side, so it would jump from 16t to 11t with 8 gears. The pinned together portion of the cassette is 7 gears by itself, with no lock-ring, so I don't see this working out.
    Thanks for letting us know how easy your setup works - I'll definitely be considering it in the future!
    Rollin' rocks will never die...

  21. #21
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    Did anybody try the same setup but with this gearing 11-15-19-21-24-28-32-36 instead of 13-17 at the beginning?

  22. #22
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    nice work!...that range is real world usable. i wish id seen this prior to building my krampus wheels....the singlespeed hubs would have allowed a tougher wheel build and those gears would be enough!>...

    i was wondering to myself if the stem facing tool available from ja stein might allow non-lathe removal of material from a cassette carrier?

    Stem Facing Tool
    For a rock steady Gas Tank bag > the DeWidget

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  23. #23
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    Oh come on now dRj0n, you've participated in several of the 6 cogs on an SS hub threads, surely you've seen this one as well and it discussed that with work you can fit 7 or 8 cogs, I even suggested it in a Krampus build thread. In the now coming up on 5 years I've been running my Pro2 SS/Trials hub with 6 or 7 cogs I've not found any instance, except for being on the road hammering above 25mph that I've needed more gears and I run the cassette straight, so my smallest cog is usually either a 15 or 16t run w/ a 24/38 ring setup.

    Quote Originally Posted by dRjOn View Post
    nice work!...that range is real world usable. i wish id seen this prior to building my krampus wheels....the singlespeed hubs would have allowed a tougher wheel build and those gears would be enough!>...

    i was wondering to myself if the stem facing tool available from ja stein might allow non-lathe removal of material from a cassette carrier?

    Stem Facing Tool
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
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  24. #24
    mnt bike laws of physics
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    Quote Originally Posted by dRjOn View Post
    i was wondering to myself if the stem facing tool available from ja stein might allow non-lathe removal of material from a cassette carrier?

    Stem Facing Tool
    I am wondering the same thing. Does anyone know the outer diameter of this tool? I am hoping it is wide enough to face the inner flange of the older Shimano 9-speed cassettes.

  25. #25
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    Not sure on that tool, but IIRC someone used a chase/face tool for the BB to do the job you're talking about, but then that's a much more expensive tool.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    You're doing mtbr wrong, you're supposed to get increasingly offended by the implications that you're doing ANYTHING wrong.

  26. #26
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    i used a bb facing tool...

    :-)~

    and lynx: as much as id like to keep all interesting threads at the forefront at all times, theres other crap to do

    :-)~
    For a rock steady Gas Tank bag > the DeWidget

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