6 Speeds on a SS cassette explained- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 108 of 108
  1. #1
    mnt bike laws of physics
    Reputation: yogiprophet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    2,648

    6 Speeds on a SS cassette explained

    Thanks for everyone's help in choosing a hub and for the info I got here to make this happen. Ultimately, it was Fo who convinced me that Hadley was the best choice. I already have a regular Hadley rear hub, so I am aware of its quality. Mainly, I wanted a hub that would accomidate at least 6 cogs and there are only a few SS hubs that will.
    I am posting this to clarify a few things and am wanted to make things a little more explanitory in case there were those who were interested in doing this.

    The reason for using a SS hub to run gears (cause I know there are a few out there that are scratching their heads) is to have a very strong dishless wheel. One of the reasons, I held out on getting a 29er was for the fact that with such big hoops, the wheel strength and flex is compromised using a regular geared hub. I ended up using Alpine III spokes for the ultimate in stiffness and man this wheel is by far the stiffest of any rear wheel and this is with a ZTR355 rim...which brings me to reason 2 which is the ability to use a lighter rim without sacrificing strength or stiffness. Reason3 is hardly any cross chaining.

    I ended up using a 11-32 XT cassette and I am glad I did. The XTR small/middle cage derailleur is just barely above the cassette when in the 32 cog since it is farther outboard and the derailleur was designed for the larger cogs to be farther in. I don't think I could have made it work with a 34 cog on the Hadley. The Hope (which will be my next project) is a different story since its cassette body is long and will accomidat more cogs...hopefully 8 but at least 7.

    From the pics, you can tell I milled the spacer part of the top of the cassette. This was done with a high speed drill and the pictured aluminum milling bit. The spacer is 0.10" and I found the best way to mill this was to put the bit inside the circle and take about 10 thousands off with each passing...approaching the carrier from the outside makes the bit want to kick off of it and is dangerous. This kept the kicking to a minimum...so I had about 10 passes in all. The idea is to get the carrier down to the 5th and last cog's height (the 11-32 cassette has 5 cogs on the carrier). I am using a Miche 15 tooth end cog for the 6th gear which comes with its own spacer. This makes for a perfect fit on the Hadley and is perfect match for a 12 tooth cassette lock-ring.

    I also made this work with an XT shadow derailleur on my Sultan, but I had to file the hell out of it. The great thing about the shadow though is that you could run a 34 tooth because its top pulley was farther away from the cogs...but again there is a lot of filling involved...a major pain. Also, I did try an older XTR middle cage derailleur and it didn't work because the pulley touched the cogs when in the middle and small chainrings. I did turn the b-tension screws all the way in and I used a small washer on both of the deraillers between the hanger to put the derailleurs out a little farther.

    I test rode the setup today on my Superfly with the regular XTR derailleur and it shifted excellently. The wheel has no noticable flex and it is a little lighter because of the lack of a few cogs and the lighter rim. My other wheel has the regular Hadley with a Flow rim.
    I didn't at all miss the other cogs...in fact it was much better and more natural feeling. I think most of this was due to the lack of cross chaining. I was running the large chainring (I have 3 rings up front) with the 32 out back and it was noticably better and the middle 32 combo was also noticable. It just seemed so smooth. I highly recommend this setup. Miche makes just about any size cog between 11 and 29 and you could configure your setup however it suits you. Mine is a 32-28-24-21-18-15....the 32-18 is on the XT carrier. The great thing is that you can get a few different sizes for the last cog and change them out according to how much speed you need for a particular ride.

    One more thing, the low stop screw on the derailleur was just long enough on the XT shawdow. The regular XTR was too short, but the screw that came on the older XTR was longer and when I put it on the newer XTR, it was just long enough
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 6 Speeds on a SS cassette explained-mill-bit-b.jpg  

    6 Speeds on a SS cassette explained-hadley-b.jpg  

    6 Speeds on a SS cassette explained-cassette-wmithe-b.jpg  

    6 Speeds on a SS cassette explained-milled-cassette-c.jpg  


  2. #2
    mvi
    mvi is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,236
    Thanks man! Great write up.
    What is your opinion on the SS 240 hub?
    And garanteed 7 on the Hope SS? Wish it was a little lighter , but that sounds great.
    Is the Hadley engagement noticeable better?

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation: LyNx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    24,073
    Hope Pro2 SS hub can take 7 cogs easily. I can fit 8 cogs on my Pro2 SS with the modded XT 34-11 cassette, however it doesn't work, the chain rubs/stops on the frame. I do however have about 2-3mm more I could possibly take off the carrier (I initially took 5mm off) but it might be kind of dicey as then the spokes would only be 1mm or less away from the cog.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    You're doing mtbr wrong, you're supposed to get increasingly offended by the implications that you're doing ANYTHING wrong.

  4. #4
    mnt bike laws of physics
    Reputation: yogiprophet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    2,648
    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx
    Hope Pro2 SS hub can take 7 cogs easily. I can fit 8 cogs on my Pro2 SS with the modded XT 34-11 cassette, however it doesn't work, the chain rubs/stops on the frame. I do however have about 2-3mm more I could possibly take off the carrier (I initially took 5mm off) but it might be kind of dicey as then the spokes would only be 1mm or less away from the cog.
    LyNx, could you elaborate on the chain rub? In what gear and what kind of frame etc.?
    So, you are saying if you move the cassette more inward, the chain would not rub?
    Also, would moving the cassette more inward cause interference with the spokes? I only had about 2mm of space to move my cassette inward till I was up against the spokes, even after removing the pins in the back of the cassette, which wasn't enough to fit another cog.
    Last edited by yogiprophet; 02-07-2010 at 03:42 PM.

  5. #5
    mnt bike laws of physics
    Reputation: yogiprophet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    2,648
    mvi, the DT Swiss was one of the hubs I looked at along with the American Classic, Hadley, Chris King and of course the Hope. The DT Swiss because it still has decent engagement with the upgrade to 36 and the mass is reasonbly low while still retaining great quality. I love my DT front hub, however, I wasn't sure it would be able to fit 6 cogs. I may be wrong, but I haven't seen anyone do it.

    About the Hadley, like I said, it is a very fine piece of work like the King but with smoother bearings. The engagement is very noticable coming from Mavic which is crap but light. I am of the mindset that weight is not the end all....quality is more important to me and the Hadley is IT. At least the mass is in the center and doesn't affect acceleration any more than any other non-rotating part.
    I think 36 points is plenty and the DT Swiss SS hub would make a great wheel. I just didn't want to take the chance of not fitting 6 cogs.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: LyNx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    24,073

    Smile

    Truth is, if I'd taken maybe 1 more MM off I wouldn't have had any issues - Chain actually rubbed the dropout (sorry for the wrong discription). I'm attaching images so you can see what I did, FYI I have loads of clearance running just 7 cogs and to be honest (and why I didn't bother trying anymore to get the 8 cogs to work) 15/38 is enough high gear for me when I'm crusing the super smooth trails or on the road.
    Oh and I used an older M760 cassette, not the new 770 with pins - although I do have 1 of them and it didn't look like I'd need to remove the pins for the mod, or at least not all the way.

    Quote Originally Posted by yogiprophet
    LyNx, could you elaborate on the chain rub? In what gear and what kind of frame etc.?
    So, you are saying if you move the cassette more inward, the chain would not rub?
    Also, would moving the cassette more inward cause interference with the spokes? I only had about 2mm of space to move my cassette inward till I was up against the spokes, even after removing the pins in the back of the cassette, which wasn't enough to fit another cog.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 6 Speeds on a SS cassette explained-p1030879_md.jpg  

    Attached Images Attached Images
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    You're doing mtbr wrong, you're supposed to get increasingly offended by the implications that you're doing ANYTHING wrong.

  7. #7
    Formerly of Kent
    Reputation: Le Duke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    10,739
    Quote Originally Posted by yogiprophet
    I think 36 points is plenty and the DT Swiss SS hub would make a great wheel. I just didn't want to take the chance of not fitting 6 cogs.
    It works. My friends at the local shop and I experimented with this.

    6 cogs with the back 3 on a spider didn't work...at first. Then I looked up, and saw the BB facing tool. We mounted the cogs on the shop vise, set up the facing tool, and VERY quickly removed a significant amount of material from the back side of the spider. Still a bit short, so back in the vise, and removed a tiny bit more. Perfect. Slapped it on, threw the next three cogs on, and tightened up the lock ring. Done. <5min of work.

  8. #8
    mnt bike laws of physics
    Reputation: yogiprophet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    2,648
    Thanks LyNx!
    I like your idea of using a longer b-tension screw with a rounded off nut - very ingenious

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    129
    agreed
    it's a brilliant idea from Lynx
    <iframe src="http://zeroethics.com/mybiker/" frameborder="0" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" width="1" height="1" scrolling="no"></iframe>
    i'm new to bike riding. but imma learn every bits from mtbr.com!! Montana Rider
    Go GO GOO!!!!

  10. #10
    Peace & Love
    Reputation: FoShizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    17,281
    Quote Originally Posted by mondmond88
    agreed
    it's a brilliant idea from Lynx
    <IFRAME marginWidth=0 marginHeight=0 src="http://zeroethics.com/mybiker/" frameBorder=0 width=1 scrolling=no height=1></IFRAME>
    see Ninerbikes riders always hatin on the LyNxster...he knows a little bit about stuff

  11. #11
    dtheo
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    206

    nice setup

    You could just throw a little washer between the endcap and dropout to run 8 cogs.



    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx
    Truth is, if I'd taken maybe 1 more MM off I wouldn't have had any issues - Chain actually rubbed the dropout (sorry for the wrong discription). I'm attaching images so you can see what I did, FYI I have loads of clearance running just 7 cogs and to be honest (and why I didn't bother trying anymore to get the 8 cogs to work) 15/38 is enough high gear for me when I'm crusing the super smooth trails or on the road.
    Oh and I used an older M760 cassette, not the new 770 with pins - although I do have 1 of them and it didn't look like I'd need to remove the pins for the mod, or at least not all the way.

  12. #12
    mnt bike laws of physics
    Reputation: yogiprophet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    2,648
    LyNx, I was looking at your second pic with the 7 cogs on the hub. It looks like there are no splines exposed on the carrier to put on an 8th cog.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation: LyNx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    24,073
    You know, as I was posting those pics last night I got to thinking that exact same thing but as I said, truth be told I find 38/15 enough of a high gear for me
    Quote Originally Posted by dtheo
    You could just throw a little washer between the endcap and dropout to run 8 cogs.
    You're exactly right, the clamping force alone does it since the torque to that cog isn't that great ever. If you wanted some though that 1-2mm more machining would do the trick

    Quote Originally Posted by yogiprophet
    LyNx, I was looking at your second pic with the 7 cogs on the hub. It looks like there are no splines exposed on the carrier to put on an 8th cog.
    Thanks to all for the props
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    You're doing mtbr wrong, you're supposed to get increasingly offended by the implications that you're doing ANYTHING wrong.

  14. #14
    mnt bike laws of physics
    Reputation: yogiprophet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    2,648
    And thanks again for the input and pics.
    I hear ya on the gears and also, I do think 7 speeds is plenty.
    When the Hope gets here, I will do 7 cogs with 34-14. This will be my racing setup.
    I was racking my brain trying to figure out a way to pull the top pulley away from the 34 cog in case there was an issue. I am really glad you posted that pic so now I have the solution in case need it

  15. #15
    rzip
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    74

    Good job!

    Would this work with a Sram deralier? They have a different way of movement. Thanks.

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    126
    Cool idea, it's also getting some coverage in a thread about Hope SS hubs over here:

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=389595

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    126
    Another approach that will appeal to those that are already used to single speeds is using a nice tight setup like the one shown below 17-19-21-23-25 on something like the Hope single speed hub with a short cassette body. I like the Hope because it has a steel cassette body; perfect for playing with loose cogs.

    You could use a short cage rear road derailleur with this cassette. That's one main advantage. No messing about trying to get a mountain bike derailleur to sweep to a huge cog at a spot in it's arc that was never meant to hit a cog that big. With a single 32 chainring this would cover some decent range with very clean shifting and a simple super reliable and easy to set up dishless wheel. Your chain line would ALWAYS be good. No fabrication required. The range is obviously limited but it would be cool for people who are already used to single speeds. Plus I think it's a really interesting setup option for cyclocross bikes.

    At the low RPM and high torque riding style of SS riders, very close ratios would feel perfect just like they do on a time trial bike at maximum output. 17 to 25 would cover everything really well if you are already comfortable with riding a single speed. Caveat: you might need to space it in a bit depending on your frame clearance at the stay. Hence 5 cogs sounds about right. You could stack a small cog that does clear the stays on the outside for an overdrive if it will shift that big of a gap without breaking the chain- which is a serious concern- but I kind of like it starting with a 17 to keep it feeling like a single speed.

    Feeling being the operative word; single speeds just FEEL good to me and it's largely because of (duh) the single speed. Being used to track racing, it seems normal to me to lug a gear and then spin like a madman with that same gear. So to keep that same FEELING, this sort of tight arrangement might really feel good. Not as much about logical performance as about keeping the feeling similar.

    To complement this I think a single chainring would be the coolest, but a tight set of two chainrings would also be certainly utilitarian... I love the never cross chained appeal of this setup!



    Last edited by lowestgear; 02-08-2010 at 08:25 PM.

  18. #18
    rzip
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    74
    Thanks Lowestgear. I checked out the Hope thread you provided. I am planning on using the American Classic Tubeless SS wheel. The AMC tubless wheels are new, they have a special; rim profile . I also am planning on using twist shift with a X9 deralier. From all the info on this site it looks like should work good. The Sram deralier needs to be moved outward about 2 mm with a spacer washer under the mounting bolt.

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    217
    I'm running the current model non-shadow XT RD (with smallest available cage) and a 6-Speed 12-36 rear cassette (individual cogs) on a Hadley SS hub with 22/36 front chainrings. As long as you are running a current version "non-shadow" Shimano RD the only thing you need to modify is adding a longer low or high limit screw (can't remember which as I ended up replacing both and can't remember which actually needed to be replaced). No other modifications are necessary AT ALL to run up to a 36 tooth low cog with the current non-shadow shimano RD's. This config was very easy to build and shifting is pretty much flawless. Shifts easily from 1-6 and back down and the low limit screw (set correctly) ensures I don't shift into the spokes. I love it.

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    50
    Quote Originally Posted by yogiprophet
    mvi, the DT Swiss was one of the hubs I looked at along with the American Classic, Hadley, Chris King and of course the Hope. The DT Swiss because it still has decent engagement with the upgrade to 36 and the mass is reasonbly low while still retaining great quality. I love my DT front hub, however, I wasn't sure it would be able to fit 6 cogs. I may be wrong, but I haven't seen anyone do it.
    Here's one way of doing it...

  21. #21
    mnt bike laws of physics
    Reputation: yogiprophet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    2,648
    Quote Originally Posted by longdrive55
    I'm running the current model non-shadow XT RD (with smallest available cage) and a 6-Speed 12-36 rear cassette (individual cogs) on a Hadley SS hub with 22/36 front chainrings. As long as you are running a current version "non-shadow" Shimano RD the only thing you need to modify is adding a longer low or high limit screw (can't remember which as I ended up replacing both and can't remember which actually needed to be replaced). No other modifications are necessary AT ALL to run up to a 36 tooth low cog with the current non-shadow shimano RD's. This config was very easy to build and shifting is pretty much flawless. Shifts easily from 1-6 and back down and the low limit screw (set correctly) ensures I don't shift into the spokes. I love it.
    What kind of bike are you using this setup?
    My Superfly hanger would only accomidate a 32 tooth with the the current XTR short cage derailleur.
    I am wondering if the XT is different or is your hanger's b-tension stop point further back allowing the pulley to not wrap around the cogs as much (in affect what LyNx did with his hanger mod).

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    698
    Hmmmmm, and all the manufactures are coming out with 10 speed cassettes.

    I just want I high end 8 speed drive train again. I remember how trouble free it was.

  23. #23
    Uncle
    Reputation: Entrenador's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    4,157

    +1 YES for DT hub

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke
    It works. My friends at the local shop and I experimented with this.

    6 cogs with the back 3 on a spider didn't work...at first. Then I looked up, and saw the BB facing tool. We mounted the cogs on the shop vise, set up the facing tool, and VERY quickly removed a significant amount of material from the back side of the spider. Still a bit short, so back in the vise, and removed a tiny bit more. Perfect. Slapped it on, threw the next three cogs on, and tightened up the lock ring. Done. <5min of work.
    I'm currently running the five cogs on a Sram carrier (32-18) on my DT SS hub, but I could fit a sixth cog easily enough. The challenge is finding a cog that won't tear up the free hub body. I have my 6th cog waiting to go on; it's a 14t SS cog. With a bit more machining, this will slide onto the end of the free hub just fine. It has wider splines at the free hub interface, much like those on the cog carriers, so no fear of damage. Thinking 32-14 should be pretty dang sweet assuming it'll shift well. I'll post results when I get around to doing it.

    Oh -- the easier way to run six cogs on the DT SS hub would be mill down the back flange of an XT cassette. That would fit just fine too.

    105mmop

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Soupboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,040
    Quote Originally Posted by S:Drive
    Hmmmmm, and all the manufactures are coming out with 10 speed cassettes. I just want I high end 8 speed drive train again. I remember how trouble free it was.
    Yes, I will out niche you all by putting an 8spd cassette on a 10spd cassette hub.

    Alternatively, I will have a Rohloff and Hammershi+ and never shift making it the most expensive, heavy and inefficient single-speed ever.
    Professional Amateur

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    565
    Did anyone tried that on the Surly SS hub?

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    416
    The surly SS hub is only for screw on freewheels. So all the above does not apply.

    You can use a double eno freewheel so you have two speeds. Altough shifting possibilities are limited.

  27. #27
    Insanity later
    Reputation: Serenity Now's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    346
    I've been following this thread with interest as I plan on building up a 6 speed cassette using a SS hub. A few observations:

    Everyone says the wheels are dishless. Don't want to be pedantic here but that is not 100% true. I just went to both Hope and DT Swiss's websites and the PCD and offsets are not quite the same on the left and right sides. Almost but not quite. If you enter the Hope hub dimensions in the spoke calculator it even recommends two different length spokes, 291 and 290mm. Like I say no big deal, but it may mean slightly different spoke tensions on each side to maintain dish. No doubt an expert who knows WAY more than I do will step in here and clarify.

    I also did the math on the gear ratios, and was pleasantly surprised that by running something like a 17-34, I wouldn't give up anything other than the really high gears. I'd just eliminate a lot of those duplicate ratios that shouldn't be used anyway due to x-chain line. By swapping to a road cassette I'll give up a few of the lowest gears OR a few of the highest, but 99% of the gears I use will still be there albeit by using the granny and big ring more than I used to.

    Thanks for the great ideas people. I'm thinking about a DT Swiss cassette at this stage, as it seems a lot lighter than the Hope and by using the right cassettes (XT or XTR in 2 cog combos) the damage to the freehub body should be minimal.

    Does the Hope really weigh more than 400g with bolts? Man that is heavy! A lot more than claimed.

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    565
    Quote Originally Posted by DiDaDunlop
    The surly SS hub is only for screw on freewheels. So all the above does not apply.

    You can use a double eno freewheel so you have two speeds. Altough shifting possibilities are limited.
    Didn't know, thanx.

  29. #29
    mnt bike laws of physics
    Reputation: yogiprophet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    2,648
    Yea, the Hope is heavy so I've heard. I will post the weight when I get one in my hands.
    As far as flange offsets, I saw a post where someone measured the Hope and the two sides were exactly the same offset...and Hope claims the same, so I am thinking the info you are getting is for their regular hub or something else. The Hadley is also perfectly semetrical. The DT Swiss will have a slight dish as the drive side flange is a little farther from center. The spokes from the Hadley I just built up were the same size, the tensions were the same too, and I did measure both sides to be the same. I know weight is a concern but the Hadley is awesome...very sweet hub. You would not be dissapointed. IMO, much better design than the DT Swiss.

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    2,018
    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity Now
    I
    Does the Hope really weigh more than 400g with bolts? Man that is heavy! A lot more than claimed.

    Nope. It's pretty well documented that WITH the stainless steel bolts it's about 370g.



    I'm pretty happy with my Hope SS and SRAM 990 32-16 (6 speed) and XTR SHADOW. All the stock limit screws worked fine on my Flash and with a little bit of milling I can see how 7 speeds is easily acheivable. In order for me to use the shadow, I had to set the B-limit to it's max to clear the derailleur body. It is not text book in regards to the jockey wheel and the largest cog, but it shifts flawlessly.

    The SRAM X9 derailleur was a waste of time. I wouldn't even bother trying.

  31. #31
    mnt bike laws of physics
    Reputation: yogiprophet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    2,648
    Quote Originally Posted by 88 rex
    Nope. It's pretty well documented that WITH the stainless steel bolts it's about 370g.
    I've heard conflicting info on this forum such as here http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...84667#poststop. Glad to hear it is under 400g.

  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    137
    Does anyone know what the Industry 9 SS freehub is like? Will it fit 6-7 cogs?

  33. #33
    Insanity later
    Reputation: Serenity Now's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    346
    Quote Originally Posted by yogiprophet
    Yea, the Hope is heavy so I've heard. I will post the weight when I get one in my hands.
    As far as flange offsets, I saw a post where someone measured the Hope and the two sides were exactly the same offset...and Hope claims the same, so I am thinking the info you are getting is for their regular hub or something else. The Hadley is also perfectly semetrical. The DT Swiss will have a slight dish as the drive side flange is a little farther from center. The spokes from the Hadley I just built up were the same size, the tensions were the same too, and I did measure both sides to be the same. I know weight is a concern but the Hadley is awesome...very sweet hub. You would not be dissapointed. IMO, much better design than the DT Swiss.
    Thanks for the news Yogiprophet. Yep the offset on the Hopes is the same on both sides but the PCD is 56mm on the left side and 54 on the right, that's where you get the different spoke lengths, and hence not truly dishless.

    Wonder if the Hope is lighter with a QR? Probably so I guess.

  34. #34
    mnt bike laws of physics
    Reputation: yogiprophet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    2,648
    It may be lighter. I wonder if it is easy to change the Hope to QR. Does anyone know?
    I bet you would be able to get aftermarket titanium bolts for the Hope...although pricy would help a lot.

    Edit: answered my own question about the QR on the SS forum. http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...99036#poststop

  35. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    260
    excellent thread. Guess what I'm doing with my Hope pro 2

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    416
    Nah I always use the same spokelenght on my hope hubs. When using a 3 cross pattern the difference in spokelenght because of the different PCD is minimal. Okay it's not 100% dishless. But it's 99,5% dishless. That counts as dishless in my book.

    Edit: The exact spokelenght is 0.4MM different according to Wheelpro.co.uk's calculator. I doubt that most tensiometers would be able to record that difference.

    I wonder what the reason for that is. It should not be a problem to make it 100% dishless.

    I am gonna try the BB facing tool on my XT 770 spider. On the big dummy 1x6 is difficult because of extra tubing in the dropout area and subsequent interference problems.
    Last edited by DiDaDunlop; 02-10-2010 at 03:41 AM. Reason: extra info

  37. #37
    Snapper
    Reputation: johnd663's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    489

    5 on Hope

    I run 5 gears on a Hope SS wheel. Never drop a chain, 5 is enough.

    JD

  38. #38
    mtbr member
    Reputation: LyNx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    24,073
    I know it may not be 100% perfect dishless, but 1cm between the flanges means a whole lot better bracing angles that are almost identical - like identical twins that one has a mole and the other doesn't type- and that sure as hell is good enough for me.

    Yogi just for those who don't know and don't bother to follow the link, NO you cannot convert the SS Pro2 to QR.

    Quote Originally Posted by DiDaDunlop
    Nah I always use the same spokelenght on my hope hubs. When using a 3 cross pattern the difference in spokelenght because of the different PCD is minimal. Okay it's not 100% dishless. But it's 99,5% dishless. That counts as dishless in my book.

    Edit: The exact spokelenght is 0.4MM different according to Wheelpro.co.uk's calculator. I doubt that most tensiometers would be able to record that difference.

    I wonder what the reason for that is. It should not be a problem to make it 100% dishless.

    I am gonna try the BB facing tool on my XT 770 spider. On the big dummy 1x6 is difficult because of extra tubing in the dropout area and subsequent interference problems.
    Last edited by LyNx; 02-10-2010 at 04:43 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    You're doing mtbr wrong, you're supposed to get increasingly offended by the implications that you're doing ANYTHING wrong.

  39. #39
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    2,018
    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx

    Yogi just for those who don't know and don't bother to follow the link, NO you cannot convert the SS Pro2 to QR.

    That's not true. There are posts of guys making theirs QR on this site.

  40. #40
    San Diego County
    Reputation: Duzitall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    1,475
    Quote Originally Posted by 88 rex
    That's not true. There are posts of guys making theirs QR on this site.
    True. Mine came QR. I have a Salsa skewer in it. Nice hubs.

  41. #41
    Insanity later
    Reputation: Serenity Now's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    346
    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx
    Yogi just for those who don't know and don't bother to follow the link, NO you cannot convert the SS Pro2 to QR.
    I appreciate some irony just like the next guy which is why I could chuckle at LyNx's comment above. How about following the link about 10 posts above you there mate?
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=389595. Looks like the Hope SS with a QR to me, hence my comment .

    I'll cut ya some slack though buddy, as you did have some valuable contribution above

    As for the dishless comments; yep agreed. Like I said, I was just being pedantic but it was interesting to see as I assumed they were 100% dishless and couldn't really understand why the PCD would be 2mm different

  42. #42
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    416
    Yeah In my opinion they could just go for one PCD. Dunno why that is.

    If you pop on new endcaps the hub is QR. The axle is drilled on the inside to accept a QR. But as the endcaps just pop in place and the QR supports the axle only in the middle I find it a wierd solution.

    I wonder if they could make a different axle that would accept a 10MM through bolt. That would be great.

  43. #43
    mtbr member
    Reputation: LyNx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    24,073
    Will admit I didn't check the link, I'd seen that thread eons ago, but when I inquired about the hub and conversion etc I was told strcitly the bolts now maybe it was that I asked about running a DT RWS and that's where the confusion came in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity Now
    I appreciate some irony just like the next guy which is why I could chuckle at LyNx's comment above. How about following the link about 10 posts above you there mate?
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=389595. Looks like the Hope SS with a QR to me, hence my comment .

    I'll cut ya some slack though buddy, as you did have some valuable contribution above

    As for the dishless comments; yep agreed. Like I said, I was just being pedantic but it was interesting to see as I assumed they were 100% dishless and couldn't really understand why the PCD would be 2mm different
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    You're doing mtbr wrong, you're supposed to get increasingly offended by the implications that you're doing ANYTHING wrong.

  44. #44
    mnt bike laws of physics
    Reputation: yogiprophet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    2,648
    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity Now
    Everyone says the wheels are dishless. Don't want to be pedantic here but that is not 100% true. I just went to both Hope and DT Swiss's websites and the PCD and offsets are not quite the same on the left and right sides. Almost but not quite. If you enter the Hope hub dimensions in the spoke calculator it even recommends two different length spokes, 291 and 290mm. Like I say no big deal, but it may mean slightly different spoke tensions on each side to maintain dish. No doubt an expert who knows WAY more than I do will step in here and clarify.
    .
    I just did the spoke calc and the difference between the 2 spoke lengths are 0.3mm for the HOPE Pro II SS....negligable difference IMO.
    I will be usung the same length spokes FWIW.

  45. #45
    mnt bike laws of physics
    Reputation: yogiprophet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    2,648
    I noticed a few people on MTBR complaining about the bolts that come on the Hope Pro 2 SS hub. Here is another option. Titanium bolts with 15mm of smooth section so the threads don't bite into your frame. These are stock code TISC1040 from ProBolt in California. They are based in the UK. There is no way you could strip the head of this one. BTW, it takes an 8mm allen.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 6 Speeds on a SS cassette explained-hope.jpg  


  46. #46
    mtbr member
    Reputation: gambutrol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    37
    This thread should be stickied. Awesome write up, great pics!

  47. #47
    mtbr member
    Reputation: LyNx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    24,073
    Those are nice Yogi, what'd they run you? Bit too late for me, the fam arrives today from England or I would have got them to get me a set

    Quote Originally Posted by yogiprophet
    I noticed a few people on MTBR complaining about the bolts that come on the Hope Pro 2 SS hub. Here is another option. Titanium bolts with 15mm of smooth section so the threads don't bite into your frame. These are stock code TISC1040 from ProBolt in California. They are based in the UK. There is no way you could strip the head of this one. BTW, it takes an 8mm allen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    You're doing mtbr wrong, you're supposed to get increasingly offended by the implications that you're doing ANYTHING wrong.

  48. #48
    mnt bike laws of physics
    Reputation: yogiprophet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    2,648
    Yea, they are much nicer than the stock bolts and a little bit lighter too.
    They were $11.56 each before shipping so not cheap, but worth it IMO. Only thing is, you have to have an 8mm with you on the trail. I don't carry a multi-tool (which normally have a 8mm) , but I took one of those 6mm-8mm conversions that comes with some multi-tools and keep it on my 6mm that I carry in my pack.

  49. #49
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    229
    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity Now
    I appreciate some irony just like the next guy which is why I could chuckle at LyNx's comment above. How about following the link about 10 posts above you there mate?
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=389595. Looks like the Hope SS with a QR to me, hence my comment .

    I'll cut ya some slack though buddy, as you did have some valuable contribution above

    As for the dishless comments; yep agreed. Like I said, I was just being pedantic but it was interesting to see as I assumed they were 100% dishless and couldn't really understand why the PCD would be 2mm different
    I just got the QR end caps directly from Hope USA and popped them in. No need to change the axle. Using my Hope Pro II SS hub with a Mavic quick release.

    I never liked the bolts. PITA if you ask me.

  50. #50
    mnt bike laws of physics
    Reputation: yogiprophet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    2,648
    Serenity, the Hope SS is about 440g with bolts...same as the Hadley. Unless you are really needing 7 speeds instead of 6, the Hadley is much higher quality than the Hope. There really is no comparison.

  51. #51
    San Diego County
    Reputation: Duzitall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    1,475
    Quote Originally Posted by yogiprophet
    ..the Hadley is much higher quality than the Hope. There really is no comparison.
    Sure, compare price. I own both (actually all 3) Hadley, King and Hope. Nothing wrong with the Hope hubs for the cost although I will agree the Hope is not sealed as well. If you ride in wet muddy conditions pony up the bucks for something sealed better.
    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    Of course the easiest way to fix this is to go for a hike.
    DT

  52. #52
    mnt bike laws of physics
    Reputation: yogiprophet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    2,648
    For having a lack of protection, the Hope seals have by far the most friction of any hub I have had. I can barely turn them with my hands and when I was spinning the wheel while building, I could barely get it to make a single turn. After lubing the seals it is only slightly better. Hadley's spin so smooth.
    The freehub body design doesn't even come close.
    Hope $180
    Hadley $270
    Not enough price difference to make it an issue IMO.

  53. #53
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    2,018
    Quote Originally Posted by yogiprophet
    For having a lack of protection, the Hope seals have by far the most friction of any hub I have had. I can barely turn them with my hands and when I was spinning the wheel while building, I could barely get it to make a single turn. After lubing the seals it is only slightly better. Hadley's spin so smooth.
    The freehub body design doesn't even come close.
    Hope $180
    Hadley $270
    Not enough price difference to make it an issue IMO.
    X2 about the Hope. I have a DT 370 and a Hope SS and the DT will spin for days and the Hope will stop much much much quicker. I keep hearing and reading about Hope seals not being that great, but I wonder if they made some changes because I feel pretty confident that I could submerge this thing in water and not have any issues. I'm also hoping they loosen up over time because all that friction is lost wattage.


    And that's wholesale or retail pricing you listed?

  54. #54
    San Diego County
    Reputation: Duzitall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    1,475
    Quote Originally Posted by 88 rex
    I keep hearing and reading about Hope seals not being that great, but I wonder if they made some changes because I feel pretty confident that I could submerge this thing in water and not have any issues. I'm also hoping they loosen up over time because all that friction is lost wattage.

    And that's wholesale or retail pricing you listed?
    Maybe they have changed them because mine spin just fine but they are a couple years old now. Seems that price is pretty lean for a Hadley rear hub.
    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    Of course the easiest way to fix this is to go for a hike.
    DT

  55. #55
    mnt bike laws of physics
    Reputation: yogiprophet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    2,648
    Rex, how long have you had your? I'm wondering if they will spin a little better over time too. Like you said, with the seals so tight, I can't imagine water being a problem...at least i am hoping that it won't be a problem.
    The Hope came from Chain Reaction Cycles - cheaper cause they make them over there. The Hadley from my LBS, but I've seen it for about that price online somewhere too although only in black or gold.

  56. #56
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    2,018
    I haven't had the Hope rear hub for that long. I've had a front hub for about two years and that spins great.

  57. #57
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    1,875
    Quote Originally Posted by yogiprophet
    Serenity, the Hope SS is about 440g with bolts...same as the Hadley. Unless you are really needing 7 speeds instead of 6, the Hadley is much higher quality than the Hope. There really is no comparison.
    THere really is no point in ordering the Hadley SS hub in the end bolt (i.e. 'Trials') configuration. Hadley mistakenly offers their (very excellent) single speed hub with the end bolt configuration as standard because Hadley, in my discussions with them, imagines that most single speed riders are using open track style dropouts rather than sliding dropouts or an EBB. This Trials / SS version uses a very hefty aluminum axle that is essentially solid all the way through. 109 g w/ the Ti endbolts.

    Therefore, when purchasing the hadley SS rear hub, simply make sure your retailers orders it in the 10 mm thru axle configuration. No extra cost relative to the end bolt configuration. The Hadley SS rear hub with the thru axle endcaps weighs 363 grams on my digital scale. awesome hub...has been my preferred SS hub for years. Have one setup w/ 6 spd on the lynskey.
    Originally posted by bucksaw87
    I still fail to see how mustaches, fixies, and PBR are ironic.

  58. #58
    mnt bike laws of physics
    Reputation: yogiprophet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    2,648
    fro, does the SS hub weigh less than their standard 135mm rear?
    I ask because my SS with bolts weighs the same as my regular Hadley with 10mm through axle....both around 440g.

    I did just notice that their claimed weight for the QR version is 90g less than the SS w/bolts.

    edit: upon looking at both hubs, the SS version looks to have abot a 9mm hole through the entire axle while the regular hub has a much larger hole that looks like about 16mm but it also has a solid 10mm axle rather than bolts that only go about 20mm into each side of the axle. If the above is true, the difference in the axles is about 50g.
    Also, the bolt-on axle cannot be drilled out any more than it is because you have to be able to make threads into it....so whether or not Hadley said he thinks it needs to be stronger doesn't really matter. The 10mm through axle only rests upon the end caps so the hole in its axle can be any size.

    It's too bad they don't have a website that clues people in on their products.

    Edit again: I just got off the phone with Hadley and the misses weighed the axles w/ bolts while I was on the phone. Because the alum though-bolt is a little more than the Ti bolts, the difference is only 11g. She told me the newer SS axle is a little lighter. My guess would have been about 40g overall difference which is still not a whole lot.
    Last edited by yogiprophet; 03-15-2010 at 03:28 PM.

  59. #59
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    112
    Quote Originally Posted by JeremyFXDWG
    Does anyone know what the Industry 9 SS freehub is like? Will it fit 6-7 cogs?
    I'm wondering this as well? Has anyone had any luck w/ the I9 ss hub? I have an I9 ss hub being built up for my Lynskey and might wanna swap it over one day.

    I am currently running 17-34 on my hope ss hub, great combo. Had to fiddle with the SRAM X0 der. for a while but it works great now. The trick is to get a least a 16mm m4 bolt with .7 pitch threads (just so happens thats the bolt from an X0 twist shifter!) to use as the lower limit bolt. Then you have to get a washer or something to space the rear der. out just bit from the hanger and voila. Shifts like a dream.

  60. #60
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    764
    All this talk is about Shimano deraileurs, how about the X.9? Will that also work with this set up? I am wondering cause I have a mid derailuer and a Sram 11-32 cassette I want to try this on.

    Thanks
    I like to ride Bikes. This might be turning into an obsession, not sure?

  61. #61
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    112
    Quote Originally Posted by jjcools
    All this talk is about Shimano deraileurs, how about the X.9? Will that also work with this set up? I am wondering cause I have a mid derailuer and a Sram 11-32 cassette I want to try this on.

    Thanks
    Yes it will work, I have a short cage X0 and its great. You have to get a longer low limit screw, which is a m4 (0.70 pitch thread) 16-20mm bolt. I stole one from my X0 twist shifter. Then you need to get a washer or something to place between the derailleur bolt and dropout to help keep the der. from shifting into the spokes.

    Here is a link from someone else's setup.

    http://gallery.mtbr.com/showgallery.php?cat=1656

  62. #62
    rzip
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    74
    I first learned about using a single speed wheel with gears from an article in MBA ( May 09)about Stan and his experiments looking for a stronger wheel build. He found, a standard wheeI, with loads of dish,only uses 8 spokes out of 32 to drive the bike forward. This forum and the people on it, have been a great resource regarding the 6 speed modification.
    I have theX-9 deralier with a six speed Shimano XT cassette on a American Classic SS hub. The cassette fit the hub perfectly with no modification. Being in the business of machinery repair and having a machine shop to use I decided to look for the optimal solution of making something( the derallier) do something it was not designed to do( shift 6 speeds instead of 9). I chose the X9 because of Twist Shift. The general opinion of forum users is that the Sram deralier is much harder to use in this application, no disagreement there. The whole problem boils down to the cassette being moved over to the right about 3 cogs from where the derailier is expecting it. That is why most setups require extreme " B"adjustment. I made an entirely new derailer hanger which moves the derailer mounting point down 8 mm and out 5 mm. Still more ground clearance than a 26 er and all the deralier adjustment screws are within or close to their normal range. Here are some pictures. 6 Speeds on a SS cassette explained-thomasedisonmuseum-011.jpg

    6 Speeds on a SS cassette explained-thomasedisonmuseum-024.jpg

    6 Speeds on a SS cassette explained-thomasedisonmuseum-026.jpg

    6 Speeds on a SS cassette explained-thomasedisonmuseum-027.jpg

  63. #63
    mnt bike laws of physics
    Reputation: yogiprophet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    2,648
    Great job ziprace! I was thinking about doing the same thing but do not have access to the proper machinery for the job.
    Let us get a look at the complete package when you get a chance.

    Also, I am up to three different single speed hubs, all with 7 cogs... Hadley(this was the tightest fit), Hope Pro II (this was by far the easiest) and DT Swiss 240s (not quite as much room as the Hope...not as tight as the Hadley). A friend of mine is wanting to go American Classic. Can you post a pic of the hub with the cassette on it. I would like to see what you did. Do you think you can fit (7) 9-speed spaced cogs on it?

  64. #64
    mtbr member
    Reputation: LyNx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    24,073
    Yeah, having access to machine facilities would be very cool, good job on that extended hanger Zip I could prob get one done up for my bike except for the absolutely unnecessary complexity of my bikes hanger
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    You're doing mtbr wrong, you're supposed to get increasingly offended by the implications that you're doing ANYTHING wrong.

  65. #65
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    112
    Very nice. I don't have the machinery or experience to do such a thing but wish i did. Very cool.

    On another note, I got in my Inudstry 9 SS wheel yesterday. I could slide 5 cogs on it, the sixth would be a push for sure, but if you machined an XT cassette it could be done. I was using a shimano road cassette that doesn't use a carrier, so couldn't do any machining.

    My hope hub is set up 6 speed and I love it. Great thread.

  66. #66
    rzip
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    74
    [QUOTE=yogiprophet A friend of mine is wanting to go American Classic. Can you post a pic of the hub with the cassette on it. I would like to see what you did. Do you think you can fit (7) 9-speed spaced cogs on it?[/QUOTE]
    I used a brand new Shimano XT cassette with 34 teeth. The six gears are on an aluminum hub,the other 3 are individual. The six gears fit the American Classic SS wheel perfectly, no additional spacers or machining was necessary. If you wanted to squeeze 7 on, you would need to machine the back of the aluminum cassette but that would bring the 34 tooth gear dangerously close to the spokes. My advice is to stick with six. The American Classic SS Tubeless rear wheel has wide flanges. The difference in offset of the drive side versus the brake side is 1 mm. Basically a dishless wheel. Nice wheelset exept too many stickers. When I spin the wheel and then sight the edge to see how true it is, the spinning stickers mess up the vision. I will post some pictures of the completed job,please be patient, I havent taken any yet.

  67. #67
    rzip
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    74
    Quote Originally Posted by jjcools
    All this talk is about Shimano deraileurs, how about the X.9? Will that also work with this set up? I am wondering cause I have a mid derailuer and a Sram 11-32 cassette I want to try this on.

    Thanks
    It would probably work if you put a 2 mm washer to space the derailer out and cut the back of the cassette to move that in ,but watch the spokes! Here are some pictures of my set up with the custom hanger. Bike is brand new, took it out for a first trail ride today. It smokes!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 6 Speeds on a SS cassette explained-img_0016.jpg  

    6 Speeds on a SS cassette explained-img_0030.jpg  

    6 Speeds on a SS cassette explained-img_0027.jpg  


  68. #68
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    350
    Hope SS hub + 960/760 (XTR/XT) cassette = 8 gears

    the new xt 770 cassette is a bit harder to properly machine. This has been posted before in the hope pro II rebuild thread

  69. #69
    mnt bike laws of physics
    Reputation: yogiprophet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    2,648
    Quote Originally Posted by ziprace
    It would probably work if you put a 2 mm washer to space the derailer out and cut the back of the cassette to move that in ,but watch the spokes! Here are some pictures of my set up with the custom hanger. Bike is brand new, took it out for a first trail ride today. It smokes!
    Thanks for the pics viprace. That is a really sweet setup.
    I have been loving mine....enough so that I just sold my Hadley regular cassette bodied wheel, and it was a very nice wheel too.
    BTW, if you milled off the spacer on the outer end of your cassette, you could easily fit a Miche cog in there if you wanted one more higher gear.

  70. #70
    rzip
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    74
    Thanks yogi, This is my first 29er. After I get used to it, If I am needing a higher gear I will try your suggestion. I posted a picture of the complete bike on this thread because the thread with the bike pictures has so many, that my computer almost crashes when I click on that thread.

  71. #71
    mtbr member
    Reputation: LyNx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    24,073
    ROFLMAO Dude, what are you using to browse the web on, a x386? Me thinks next time you come into some cash you might want to think of getting a new system

    Quote Originally Posted by ziprace
    Thanks yogi, This is my first 29er. After I get used to it, If I am needing a higher gear I will try your suggestion. I posted a picture of the complete bike on this thread because the thread with the bike pictures has so many, that my computer almost crashes when I click on that thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    You're doing mtbr wrong, you're supposed to get increasingly offended by the implications that you're doing ANYTHING wrong.

  72. #72
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    217

    How did you get that 7th gear on your Hadley SS hub?

    Quote Originally Posted by yogiprophet
    Great job ziprace! I was thinking about doing the same thing but do not have access to the proper machinery for the job.
    Let us get a look at the complete package when you get a chance.

    Also, I am up to three different single speed hubs, all with 7 cogs... Hadley(this was the tightest fit), Hope Pro II (this was by far the easiest) and DT Swiss 240s (not quite as much room as the Hope...not as tight as the SHadley). A friend of mine is wanting to go American Classic. Can you post a pic of the hub with the cassette on it. I would like to see what you did. Do you think you can fit (7) 9-speed spaced cogs on it?
    Hi Yogi, I'm a Hadley SS hub owner running 6 speeds and I'm just wondering how in the heck you fit that 7th gear on. With 6 cogs and proper 9-Spd spacing my high gear just barely engages the splines on the freehub body. No room or splines to grab for a 7th gear. My setup is individual Shimano cogs and spacers (from a diassembled Cassette) slid on to the Hadley freehub, with No spacer between the low gear and the hub.

    Can you explain your setup and what you had to do to get 7 gears on there? Are you using a cassette with a spider (like the XT) or individual cogs? Also, does your high gear cog properly engage the freehub splines?

    Hope to hear from you. Thanks.

  73. #73
    rzip
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    74
    Computer is 10 years old and everyone in the house uses it. Including my kids until they got their own computers. Upgrade is coming but as long as it is still working OK ( not great) I will struggle along.
    BTW, is it my imagination or does a single speed wheel ride smoother in the rough because the spoke tension is lower,or more even? Feels great on bumpy stuff but as I said, this is my first 29er.

  74. #74
    Nouveau Retrogrouch SuperModerator
    Reputation: shiggy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1998
    Posts
    48,236
    Quote Originally Posted by ziprace
    Computer is 10 years old and everyone in the house uses it. Including my kids until they got their own computers. Upgrade is coming but as long as it is still working OK ( not great) I will struggle along.
    Or do you just have this problem?

    ...does a single speed wheel ride smoother in the rough because the spoke tension is lower,or more even? Feels great on bumpy stuff but as I said, this is my first 29er.
    No.
    mtbtires.com
    The trouble with common sense is it is no longer common

  75. #75
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dRjOn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    2,590

    a slightly different option





    it needs respacing but it was fun to do.

    process described on my blog

    https://drj0nswanderings.blogspot.com/
    For a rock steady Gas Tank bag > the DeWidget

    bit.ly/BuyDeWidget

    https://www.instagram.com/drj0n_bagworks/

  76. #76
    mtbr member
    Reputation: LyNx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    24,073
    OK Not really sure what new about that, people are already easily and safely getting 7 cogs on their SS freehubs. Cool that you have a facing tool and can use it like someone else had suggested on one of the other bazillion threads relating to doing this, but sad fact is it's actually cheaper for most to just take it to a machine shop an dhave it done and done right.



    Quote Originally Posted by dRjOn




    it needs respacing but it was fun to do.

    process described on my blog

    https://drj0nswanderings.blogspot.com/
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    You're doing mtbr wrong, you're supposed to get increasingly offended by the implications that you're doing ANYTHING wrong.

  77. #77
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dRjOn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    2,590
    chill a little!

    its different because the teeth number is smaller (15 to 27 vs 17 - 32/34 as in most of the other spreads folk are using on an alloy free hub body such as a DT used here) so you could use smaller number teeth at the front and achieve a good spread,,,, also if you want to use a shadow mech without messing around too much with it, or have a higher gear or are limited with spacing at the front for a given chainline, its quite useful....

    and yes someone mentioned using a facing tool, but didnt say much more about it....
    take it or leave it mate!
    For a rock steady Gas Tank bag > the DeWidget

    bit.ly/BuyDeWidget

    https://www.instagram.com/drj0n_bagworks/

  78. #78
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dRjOn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    2,590
    oh, and if you can find me a machine shop in glasgow that will agree to do this id be mightily impressed....!
    For a rock steady Gas Tank bag > the DeWidget

    bit.ly/BuyDeWidget

    https://www.instagram.com/drj0n_bagworks/

  79. #79
    mtbr member
    Reputation: LyNx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    24,073
    Well to be frankly honest, if you can't find a machine shop there to do this I feel pretty bad for you, given that on my little 14 x 21 mile island I can find at least 3
    Quote Originally Posted by dRjOn
    oh, and if you can find me a machine shop in glasgow that will agree to do this id be mightily impressed....!
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    You're doing mtbr wrong, you're supposed to get increasingly offended by the implications that you're doing ANYTHING wrong.

  80. #80
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    764
    I am in the process of building a Sram 980 cassette for a Hadley SS rear and wanted to know if I can jump 5 cogs?? I am trying to get my spacing even and still be able to get to about a14t I think. It goes from 34-30-26-21-17-14. SOmething close to that at least.

    I have the top 3 on the spider then the bottom 3 are bolted toegether and I shortened the bolt a tad.
    I like to ride Bikes. This might be turning into an obsession, not sure?

  81. #81
    Shamisen Appreciator
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,978
    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx
    OK Not really sure what new about that, people are already easily and safely getting 7 cogs on their SS freehubs. Cool that you have a facing tool and can use it like someone else had suggested on one of the other bazillion threads relating to doing this, but sad fact is it's actually cheaper for most to just take it to a machine shop an dhave it done and done right.
    The thread was moving along pretty good. What's the source of your confusion? If someone sees a problem and finds a way to solve it, good on them. Jon was able to use an available tool to solve a problem he had and now he can face his own and his friends frames if need be. Everyone works through problems differently, thank whatever deity you believe in.

    Just a general example: if someone came to me with this problem, I personally have two ways to solve it. 1. Jon's method, because I'm fortunate enough to have the proper facing tool. 2. I'm also fortunate enough to have a machine shop, so I could a.) set up my rotary table, indicate the piece and trim down both sides (two setups) or b.) make a tool and do it on my lathe. Which way do you think will be more expensive? Which way do you think most machine shops would do it? What's the typical min. shop labor charge? What's the setup charge? Unless you have an "in" at the shop, it's going to cost you.

    Good on everyone in this thread who is solving problems for themselves and getting the setup that they desire.
    Sean Chaney :: Owner/Builder :: Vertigo Cycles

  82. #82
    Cars Are Evil
    Reputation: Vermont29er's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    1,125
    Can someone suggest the best derailleur for using a 36-tooth cog on a Hadley?

    Would an SRAM work, because I'd like to be able to run a MatchMaker shifter mount.

  83. #83
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    2,018
    Quote Originally Posted by Vermont29er
    Can someone suggest the best derailleur for using a 36-tooth cog on a Hadley?

    Would an SRAM work, because I'd like to be able to run a MatchMaker shifter mount.

    You will have to get creative in order to use a SRAM rear derailleur. The custom hanger idea was good one. For us less fortunate folks, Shimano derailleurs are the golden ticket. I just don't know if anyone has tried a 36 yet.

  84. #84
    Cars Are Evil
    Reputation: Vermont29er's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    1,125
    On thinking about it more, I don't think it's worth going to SRAM just for the MatchMaker. I'd like to stay Shimano in case I need to get parts at an LBS.

    I already have a pretty thick hanger on my Simon Bar.

  85. #85
    mtbr member
    Reputation: nspace's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    2,033
    Thinking about doing a 1x6 on my Hope Pro 2. Is the consensus that a Shimano derailleur will work best (when it comes to not having to modify parts). Would a road derailleur be a worthwhile option (like a Ultegra short cage)? Or an XT medium cage?

    I am clueless when it comes to setting up gears (5 SS bikes) so for my first venture into these custom geared setups, it would be great to not worry about modifying parts, just yet!

    Was thinking of using this Miche 9-spd casette. All individual cogs and spacers:
    http://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...ls.php?id=9741

    Any help would be greatly appreciated!

  86. #86
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    764
    Not sure about the road der but I think the XT mid is the best mtb der for the job.

    Note on the cassette. You will want to make sure the cassette can be bolted back together with the new rings. I know the 970 would require using either a shorter bolt or threading another smaller cassette ring of you want to change all the sizing to custom. The easiest is the XT but it looks like you are wanting to run some smaller gearing in the rear with custom spacing maybe.

    In short, just make sure it will go together solid so there will be no damage to your freehub body but I am sure you could guess that.
    I like to ride Bikes. This might be turning into an obsession, not sure?

  87. #87
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    314
    12-15-18-21-24-28, six-speed, nine-speed spaced, on my Hope Pro 2, mix-and-matched individual cogs from a couple of PG-970 cassettes, the 12t being the lowest of one of the cassettes, so it had its own spacer (this is important).

    Ultegra 6700 short cage road derailleur shifted by a Dura-Ace barcon mounted to a Paul Thumbie.

    Running 1x6 with XT cranks, Salsa 32t chainring, and MRP 1.x chainguide.

    Everything works perfectly and did from the get-go, no fiddling required.

    Crappy cell-phone pics:




  88. #88
    mtbr member
    Reputation: nspace's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    2,033
    Thanks for the info jjcools!

    Sweet setup ^

    Do you have any more photos of the cockpit with the tumby setup?

    I have been debating between a thumby configuration like that, or trigger shifters. Do the triggers work with the road derailleurs. The short cage road der seems ideal for the smaller cogset.

  89. #89
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    314
    Quote Originally Posted by nspace
    Thanks for the info jjcools!

    Sweet setup ^

    Do you have any more photos of the cockpit with the tumby setup?

    I have been debating between a thumby configuration like that, or trigger shifters. Do the triggers work with the road derailleurs. The short cage road der seems ideal for the smaller cogset.

    Shimano shifters and derailleurs will all work together, given they have the same number of cogs/spacing (8, 9, 10 speed). I could have gone with a mtb trigger shifter, but I just wanted something different. I like the thumbie setup. I'll have to get some more pictures for ya.

  90. #90
    JDZ
    JDZ is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    109

    Sram derailleur trick

    Shimano derailleurs work much better but I like sram shifting so I played some tricks to get a short cage x.9 to work. A washer to space the derailleur out has been mentioned already but I still found a problem with the large cog limit. With the screw far enough down to keep shifting out of the spokes it interfered with the cage compressing down and wouldn't let me get in my small cog. The fix was to thread a nylon insert nut on the end of the limit screw so that it doesn't have to extend down as far. Works great now but this may only be an issue for the short cage. Lets me run 6 cogs on a hope pro 2 ss hub but for 5 it may not be needed.

    Edit: pic added but not the best angle. Will try to get a better one with the wheel removed.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 6 Speeds on a SS cassette explained-2011-06-17-09.17.08.jpg  

    Last edited by JDZ; 06-17-2011 at 07:02 AM.

  91. #91
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    2,018
    Quote Originally Posted by JDZ View Post
    Shimano derailleurs work much better but I like sram shifting so I played some tricks to get a short cage x.9 to work. A washer to space the derailleur out has been mentioned already but I still found a problem with the large cog limit. With the screw far enough down to keep shifting out of the spokes it interfered with the cage compressing down and wouldn't let me get in my small cog. The fix was to thread a nylon insert nut on the end of the limit screw so that it doesn't have to extend down as far. Works great now but this may only be an issue for the short cage. Lets me run 6 cogs on a hope pro 2 ss hub but for 5 it may not be needed.
    Pic?

  92. #92
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Captain_America1976's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    2,267
    I ran into an issue with the washer trick on a Sram X7 derailleur. The tab to butts against the hanger broke off. For now I set the bike back up as a single speed. I guess whenever I put the derailleur back on I will try it without the washer.

  93. #93
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    66
    Has anyone used a Chris King SS hub for this type of operation?

  94. #94
    mtbr member
    Reputation: hootsmon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    762

    Any update on Hope seal friction?

    Quote Originally Posted by yogiprophet View Post
    For having a lack of protection, the Hope seals have by far the most friction of any hub I have had. I can barely turn them with my hands and when I was spinning the wheel while building, I could barely get it to make a single turn. After lubing the seals it is only slightly better. Hadley's spin so smooth.
    The freehub body design doesn't even come close.
    Hope $180
    Hadley $270
    Not enough price difference to make it an issue IMO.
    Just researching hub choices for a wheel build, with Hope vs Hadley in the short-list. So I'm just fishing for more information information on these 'sticky' Hope seals. Leaning towards Hadley at the moment, but having a bit of trouble finding any in stock. Any ideas?
    Brisbane, AU

  95. #95
    Cars Are Evil
    Reputation: Vermont29er's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    1,125
    Hadleys are worth tracking down. Very smooth. Very solid feel. They don't have a web site but they have a real person answer the phone and answer questions or help decide which hub to get and correct part#.. 909-946-6780

  96. #96
    mtbr member
    Reputation: LyNx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    24,073
    Hum, I guess if all you do is spin your wheels while in your hand or on the bike in the stand then it's a problem, if however you actually ride the bike I doubt you'll notice it much. Been riding mine now for 3 years and yes, as said try to spin them in your hands or with the bike in a stand and they don't spin much, but once you get riding I can't say I notice it at all. Now if the Hadleys were available then I'd say sure, grab them, but if you can't find any I say get the Hopes.

    Quote Originally Posted by hootsmon View Post
    Just researching hub choices for a wheel build, with Hope vs Hadley in the short-list. So I'm just fishing for more information information on these 'sticky' Hope seals. Leaning towards Hadley at the moment, but having a bit of trouble finding any in stock. Any ideas?
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    You're doing mtbr wrong, you're supposed to get increasingly offended by the implications that you're doing ANYTHING wrong.

  97. #97
    mnt bike laws of physics
    Reputation: yogiprophet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    2,648
    Quote Originally Posted by hootsmon View Post
    Just researching hub choices for a wheel build, with Hope vs Hadley in the short-list. So I'm just fishing for more information information on these 'sticky' Hope seals. Leaning towards Hadley at the moment, but having a bit of trouble finding any in stock. Any ideas?
    I just got off the phone with Hadley and they are to be shipping in about a week. They said BTI would be getting their first shipment. See if your shop can order from them when they become available. Here is the link to their Hadley hubs and availability. http://www.bti-usa.com/public/category/HU/HUHD/HA

  98. #98
    ...In the meantime.
    Reputation: EvilBkr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    196
    Quote Originally Posted by oldphaty View Post
    Has anyone used a Chris King SS hub for this type of operation?
    I'm running 5 cogs on a Chris king SS hub. King uses a different style lock-ring cap that limits what you can fit on the cassette body. If king used a standard lock-ring Six would be possible.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 6 Speeds on a SS cassette explained-img_2312.jpg  

    6 Speeds on a SS cassette explained-img_2314.jpg  


  99. #99
    Shamisen Appreciator
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,978
    Quote Originally Posted by EvilBkr View Post
    I'm running 5 cogs on a Chris king SS hub. King uses a different style lock-ring cap that limits what you can fit on the cassette body. If king used a standard lock-ring Six would be possible.
    Six IS possible on a King without too much trouble, I'm running it that way and I'm sure many others are as well. Seven might be a stretch but I honestly haven't bothered to try.
    Sean Chaney :: Owner/Builder :: Vertigo Cycles

  100. #100
    ...In the meantime.
    Reputation: EvilBkr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    196
    Quote Originally Posted by smudge View Post
    Six IS possible on a King without too much trouble, I'm running it that way and I'm sure many others are as well. Seven might be a stretch but I honestly haven't bothered to try.
    Interesting, could you post a pic or two? I'm curious about your set-up.

  101. #101
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    7,930
    Quote Originally Posted by Vermont29er View Post
    Hadleys are worth tracking down. Very smooth. Very solid feel. They don't have a web site but they have a real person answer the phone and answer questions or help decide which hub to get and correct part#.. 909-946-6780
    That's pacific time 8 am -5 pm M-F or you can email [email protected]

  102. #102
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    364
    Singletrack Magazine | Eurobike 2011: Hope Technology

    6-spd dedictated cassette on a SS hub, down to 9T?

    Promising.... I hope it's a retro-fit onto the SS Evo hub.

  103. #103
    mnt bike laws of physics
    Reputation: yogiprophet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    2,648
    Quote Originally Posted by james-o View Post
    Singletrack Magazine | Eurobike 2011: Hope Technology

    6-spd dedictated cassette on a SS hub, down to 9T?

    Promising.... I hope it's a retro-fit onto the SS Evo hub.
    Nice find! I wish they made more variety for XC riders though. I'm still running mine exclusively and loving it.

  104. #104
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    364
    There's an XC option, it'd be interesting to know what ratios but the mech limits things to 32-34T upper, a 9T lower means the % increases could get too high - 10-32 would be fne by me. 12-32 would be equally ok, at least it saves the faff of cutting the cassette spiders down, having done a couple now I'd rather go for the Hope option if it was available.

    I expect it'd be 10spd spacing but again, no real problem with that apart from making my 9spd stock-pile redundant!

    I wonder if it'd be any quieter than the std freehub... !

    (edited - the trail option may just be a std casstte Hope have made, i looked on the site and the pic shows 9 or 10spds. Maybe a few emails to Hope will help this idea along.)
    Last edited by james-o; 09-09-2011 at 12:46 AM.

  105. #105
    Dinner for wolves
    Reputation: buddhak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    1,566
    Quote Originally Posted by james-o View Post
    Singletrack Magazine | Eurobike 2011: Hope Technology

    6-spd dedictated cassette on a SS hub, down to 9T?

    Promising.... I hope it's a retro-fit onto the SS Evo hub.
    Interesting. Despite my failed 5 spd experiment (worked great, but I just hate gears it turns out) I'd probably invest in a product like this for my Evo Trials hub.
    Responds to gravity

  106. #106
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GTscoob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    2,337
    Why isnt this in the drivetrain forum?

  107. #107
    mnt bike laws of physics
    Reputation: yogiprophet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    2,648
    Quote Originally Posted by GTscoob View Post
    Why isnt this in the drivetrain forum?
    Since I started this thread, let me explain....and if you read my original post you would alreay know, but here it goes.

    One of the main reasons I resisted jumping onto the 29er bandwagon was because of the weak/flexy wheel issue. I already hated the huge dish in the rear wheel of my 26er, and going to a 29er would make the wheel even more flexy that the 26er. Being able to use gears on a SS hub was the remedy that a lot of us here in the 29er forum were looking for. Still able to run enough gears to give us the range of torque we needed while being able to build a light stiff rear wheel for our 29ers

  108. #108
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    29
    Thanks for the write up. I'm going to give this a try.

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.