36er Prototype Pictures.- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    36er Prototype Pictures.

    Hi guys. Here's a few teaser shots and some info on the 36er I've designed. I will be posting more in depth info after QBP's Frostbike this weekend. Enjoy!

    Wheelbase: 46 inches.
    Weight: 36 lbs, (with full Surly flask and holder!)
    Chainstay length: 520 mm
    Drivetrain: 3 X 6, 20-90 gear inches
    Standover height: 30.5 inches
    Top tube length: 24.5 inches

    Pic #1: A line up of 26", 29", and 36" wheels featuring the local Titus rep.
    Pic #2: Photo of the bike next to an 18" Salsa El Mariachi for size comparison.

    My first impressions, it's more fun than I possibly imagined!
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  2. #2
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    Yeah, finally pics of a purposely-designed 36" MTB, props for having it done!!

    Please do share any info and pics, details!!!

  3. #3

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    holy poo

    I have seen the Cokers before...but when you put it next to the 29er, the 29er looks like a little bitty bike...the difference is remarkable...looks like a 29er next to a BMX bike in terms of tire size.

    Love to see more of that frame though.

    Too bad you have a very limited selection of tires....at this point....

  4. #4
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    There is only one tire actually. Coker tires no longer fit Airfoil aluminum rims. We've figured out how to cut our own tread into the slick TA tires easily enough, it actually yields a tire that is over a lb lighter than the Coker, and the tread is much better. The grip so far is unbelievable!
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by benwitt11
    Hi guys. Here's a few teaser shots and some info on the 36er I've designed. I will be posting more in depth info after QBP's Frostbike this weekend. Enjoy!

    Wheelbase: 46 inches.
    Weight: 36 lbs, (with full Surly flask and holder!)
    Chainstay length: 520 mm
    Drivetrain: 3 X 6, 20-90 gear inches
    Standover height: 30.5 inches
    Top tube length: 24.5 inches

    Pic #1: A line up of 26", 29", and 36" wheels featuring the local Titus rep.
    Pic #2: Photo of the bike next to an 18" Salsa El Mariachi for size comparison.

    My first impressions, it's more fun than I possibly imagined!
    More importantly, how does it ride (outside of being "fun")?

  6. #6
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    Holy Moly! I sure hope you have at least an 8" rotor on the front. I suspect that thing could pick up some serious speed going downhill!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SingingSingleTracker
    More importantly, how does it ride (outside of being "fun")?
    The momentum generated by the wheels is astounding. Once up to speed, it takes no energy at all to keep it moving. It really feels like a 29er on crack. Everying is magnified with the larger wheels. They are heavy but no one who has ridden it yet has even commented on that. On hills it is noticable, though the gearing seems fine in this regard. Coming down hills is awesome! I spun out the big gear, (over 90 inches,) last night in town.

    The first thing people say is how surprised by how "normal" it feels. It is stable to a fault, but not hard to corner with at all. It feels much like a motorcycle, where stability in cornering is much higher than that of a bike. It is very confidence insipiring, inspite of the icy roads we have now. With the tires at about 10 psi, I could not make the rear tire slip on clearly icy roads. It's pretty unreal. Curbs are the clearest point of how these things roll over stuff. With lower pressure, the wheels simply pop over them.
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  8. #8
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    Are the airfoil rims too tight or too losse fitting for the Coker tires?

    Which tubes are in there, if any?
    The 24hr unicycle distance record was set with a tubeless setup.
    I've read reports that the Schwalbe 28x2.35" tubes work just fine in 36" unicycle wheels, saves like half a pound per wheel, perhaps?

    Will someone ever manage to make one tire out of two? Like joining two really wide 26" tires that clear mud well and roll decently. The frankentire technology (sticking a tread on a shaved bold tire) may also be an option again. We have many 29" options now, so there's less need for frankentires in that size now.
    Please report on head tube angle, fork offset and toe clearance?

  9. #9
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    The tires we are using are a bastardized Wheels TA slick. This tire is 300 grams lighter than the Coker before cutting the tread, and that drops a further 100 grams off the tire.

    The Coker tire REALLY doesn't work with the Aluminum rim anymore. They blow off the rim at any more than 20 psi. It is not an option. The cut slicks do a better job anyway. 29er tubes do work fine. I'm using a standard Bontrager, though I have the rimstrips from Stan to make them tubeless, which we'll be trying wen the weather warms up.


    Jan, this thing would be perfect for your beach races. You'd love it.
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  10. #10
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    No kidding, I SO BADLY want a bike like this, for beach racing as well as other stuff!

    Which Stan's strips, custom? Stretching them will narrow them down of course, and may affect stickyness/sealing properties?

    How wide are the rims?

    Do us a favor and mount a stupidly short gear, and see how steep you can climb with that long-ass chainstays? I bet at 10psi you can ride up steep staircases!

    Only real downside I see for larger wheels is that at the lower pressures you'll run, the rims may hit more easily, the volume being bigger to boot.

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    You have to remember that the tires are FOUR PLY!! This changes the PSI scale like you wouldn't believe. The tire are rock hard at 35 psi, and at 10-17 psi they feel pretty normal. With the hub I'm using in the rear, it's hard to get a 34t big ring to work without rubbing the upper der jockey wheel. I'm working on that. The der is simply not designed to move that far down in that short of a space. I had to modify it as well in regards to the low set screw, which would not screww in far enough to stop the der. If a longer screw was used it prevented the der from moving normally to the lower gears. The solution is very simple, but took some time to figure out. I think that combined with the heavier wheels, a gear lower than 22-27 that's on there would be relativly useless. It's simple going to be had to keep the bike going at that low of a speed anyway. That said, with that low of a gear, you could pull stumps!
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  12. #12
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    You're using a Hope SS hub, I presume? Or Profile 6-speed 150mm?
    Yes, it's hard to get a 34t to work then. SRAM is a no-no them, by lack of B-tension spring (if that's how you say that).
    Have you considered a longer derailer hanger? With a custom (say) 40t cog (can be had, really), and then like 32-26-22-18-15 you'd still have a great range.

    On "my" 36" I'll certainly have wide hubs and the longer derailer hanger I just came up with. Or someone will have to make a longer-body derailer.

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    The hubs are 135 front and rear, Surly SS front, Profile 6 spd 135 rear. 150mm makes sense, but hub availability is shoddy at best. I wanted everything on here to be as available as possible. The "simple" solution to the rear der is to have a threaded and tapped "plug" made that would screw into the existing der mount, and move the der out an inch or so. I'm working on that.
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  14. #14
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    Moving the hanger out an inch will give you 2 x Pi x 2 = over 12t extra clearance if I am not mistaken. On the lower end shifting might hurt a bit, an 11t already feeling like it was placed where a 23t belongs.
    Half an inch might do the job if you want to stick to a 34t largest cog?

    I have not ridden a 36" more han a couple straights and corners at a bike show, but I think it's not "heavy wheel momentum" keeping you going, but a greatly reduced pulling effect of the uneven terrain on your bike.

    4-ply, wow... If those could be ordered in 2-ply, they'd be totally different again I'm sure.
    Is rolling resistance over smooth pavement now even a benefit over a fast 26/29" tire?
    I can't emphasize enough how much you ROCK daring to do this. You will most certainly not be the last either.

    My 36" wishlist :
    - V-brakes should do fine
    - Really wide hubs, please!
    - Long crank compliant (if the wheels are going to fit me, so are the cranks)
    - sub-30lbs is possible. With alu frame/fork, pounds lighter still.

    Time to come up with a frank/crank design that does away with a bottom bracket. Move the rear wheel as far forward as one wants. :-)

  15. #15
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    New question here. What about....

    Using a Rohlof hub? Would this work? (Excuse the ignorance)

    Gladshooks!.... that tire is bigger than my inseam

    We aren't easily impressed here in SoCal but that is an awesome bike! A big fun factor

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  16. #16
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    Rohloff isn't rated for those gear ratio's I think.

  17. #17
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    Nice stuff.

    Where'd you source the spokes? Or did you cut 'em yourself from old fenceposts?!!

    In case no one else has mentioned it, you *really* need a pic of the bike by itself...

    Cheers,

    MC

  18. #18
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    This is just too good to be true!

    Please post some extra pics from the bike + frame, willing to share frame drawings? Any commercial plans with this?

    Please shoot Mark Slate from WTB an Email about this, also with ride report. I'm talking with him about 31" / 32" mountainbike wheels, but he simply thinks it's not going to work ......

  19. #19
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    Sweet!

    Can't wait to take some fancy pics of this beast at the open house! I'm all giddy now....
    Just a regular guy.

  20. #20
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    It is all that and more!

    I rode that monster Saturday ( I had to leave my first born son as a deposit ) and I must say Ben did a wonderful job of designing this bike. It rides without any unusual quirks at all. For the right application this bike will rock!
    Thanks again.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ss29er
    For the right application this bike will rock!
    Right application? ...........

  22. #22
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    Anyone make a long travel fork for it yet?

    That's really cool.

    Make mine a SS please.

  23. #23
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    I'd REALLY like to see a bike built for someone my size using those wheels...I dare say it would look "normal." At least I'd look more "normal" on it.
    I might be convinced to run rigid on one of those!

  24. #24
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    I saw this 36" last halloween critical mass

    SS with a nice wicker basket!
    “I don't like jail, they got the wrong kind of bars in there”

  25. #25
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    Padre, a 200mm DH fork could be reduced to a 80mm (fuzzy math) 36" fork easily!

  26. #26
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    More pics, please!
    Wow, I'd love to take that thing for a spin. Sweet.
    -Sean

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloxxki
    Rohloff isn't rated for those gear ratio's I think.

    Just decrease the gear ratio at the chain drive.


    I have a question, do these accelerate as fast as a BMX bike since these wheels will have less RPMs? Also, are these just as good for a 5'2" person like the 29er is?

    Thanks.




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    A Rohloff would be ideal for this bike. I think that that ratios would be just fine. The biggest thing is that Rohloff's are only available in 32 hole drillings. If they offered a 36, I'd have one.

    The spokes are commonly available, if you use the right hubs, and are less money than some high end, double butted, normal offereings.

    For bigger people like Padre, it's really very easy to get a bike with these wheels. This frame could be built far smaller even without many trade offs. I have the designs, and the next one built is going to be for a 5' 8" friend.

    Forks are a dream at this point. White Bothers would be the guys to go to, and I have called them about it. They said for about $5000 plus labor they could do it, but they don't want to. They would have to re-engineer their DH 200 fork, and they said that it might not even work well then.

    The bars and seat are in the exact same positon relative to the ground as on my RX. If a person were to get a 2-3 inc fork made for it, it would invariably have to raise the bars at least 3 inches, plus all the issues of rebuilding the front end of the frame to be strong enough. I don't think that it would be worth it.

    About the "right application," I don't know that there is one. I think that I summed it up best when I said that the bike is fun. It is smooth like nothing I've ever ridden. It's got heavier wheels then some whole bike's I've owned. The wheels are inherently weak, and there's only so much that can be done with that. The tires are the biggest failing point, as anythign with custom tread can't be ever massed produced. In short, the bike should suck in a lot of ways, but it's really fun. The bike litteraly stopped traffic when I was riding it around town yesterday, and I've never owned a bike that has done that. It's not right for anything really, just a lot of fun.
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  29. #29
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    What WOuld it take to get a set of these plans for a 6'3 guy??

  30. #30
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    For suspension (with a crazy high head tube), you could always go the ol' Action-Tec/Headshok route.
    -Sean

  31. #31
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    I think this could be a great development for tall riders, although for serious MTB it would be better if a 32"-ish came first (not holding my breath).

    But even at 5'7", I want one. Would be awesome for cruising the beach, around town and on dirt roads. Even if I did have to point the stem backwards for proper fit!
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  32. #32
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    Any commercial plans with this?
    I could have custom one's of these pretty easily. I would love if the wheelsize took off, but a great amount of involvement and money would be required to accomplish that. There is no standard 36" size, not real ISO rim measurement. Look at the Coker tire deal. There are two tires out there, and even those don't work with each other! That's a perfect example of this. Like Cloxxki said, think if these tires had normal tread and were two ply? It'd be a different thing all together. That would be really fun. If standard parts could be developed that anyone could source and use, that would be something really cool.

    I have a question, do these accelerate as fast as a BMX bike since these wheels will have less RPMs? Also, are these just as good for a 5'2" person like the 29er is?
    The bike accelerates fairly well all things considered. Nothing really like a BMX bike though.

    The 8" brakes work really well. They feel like 6-7" brakes on a 29er. I am a bit leary of really getting on them, because of the spoke windup, it's noticable. I don't think that there is a way around that, not without using heavier spokes, and those are heavy. The brakes are perfectly fine for the application, maybe too good.

    I've had people as short as 5' 4" ride this. They don't fit, but they could. The bars would be generally high in relation to you seat, that's hard to get around.
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlowBoy
    I think this could be a great development for tall riders, although for serious MTB it would be better if a 32"-ish came first (not holding my breath).

    But even at 5'7", I want one. Would be awesome for cruising the beach, around town and on dirt roads. Even if I did have to point the stem backwards for proper fit!
    32 inch wheels really don't exist at all. I think that the advantage to this wheelsize is that basic elements are all here, they just need to be refined. In some ways it's even easier than 29ers, because an okay tire already exists. That means that a mould somewhere exists, and a design could just be altered, not invented.

    The front end of the bike ends up being extreamly similar to a "normal" 29er. Somethgin as short as a 23.5" effective TT should be doable. I bet the standover height on this one is better that most 29ers, even little ones.
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  34. #34
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    HOT damn!!!!
    More than anything, I LOVE the innovation going on here. Keep pushing the envelope!
    29er's didn't "exist" a handful of years ago either, lest not forget. Pushing the edges of what we know and have become familiar with is the only way forward.
    I would love one with full fenders for the ultimate commuting machine. Stick an airhorn on the bars and watchout SUV's!

    Share some more detailed pics if you can.
    Thanks
    OGG
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hubert
    Right application? ...........
    Fun!!!

  36. #36
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    What about a 29/36?
    Or 26/36?
    Or 36/24/36?

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by benwitt11
    There is no standard 36" size, not real ISO rim measurement. Look at the Coker tire deal. There are two tires out there, and even those don't work with each other! That's a perfect example of this.
    I have the "old" Airfoil rim and can run either tire without a problem. I have been running the Coker tire tubeless for four worn tires. The problem is with the rim maunfacturer. A batch awhile ago was too large even for the Coker tire, they cut them down and powder coated them (causing rim brake problems). This new "X" batch should of been rejected but wasn't. My thinking is Uni.com didn't want to step on any toes or have the rim maker cancel out completely. We definately need more tire selection.

  38. #38
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    Thanks for posting this!

    I've been "in the know" on this project for quite awhile now and you have no idea how hard it is for me to keep my mouth shut!

    This is too fun, really. It's like a Pugsley in that you don't really need one, but it makes you smile just looking at it so much you just gotta have one!

    I think this thing would be crazy fast on rolling courses like Iceman Coeth, Chequamegon, or the like. Gravel roads would fly by! Perhaps the ideal Trans Iowa machine?

    I don't know, but it's fun to think about, that's for sure!

    Can't wait to see it in the flesh this weekend!
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtsurfer
    I have the "old" Airfoil rim and can run either tire without a problem. I have been running the Coker tire tubeless for four worn tires. The problem is with the rim maunfacturer. A batch awhile ago was too large even for the Coker tire, they cut them down and powder coated them (causing rim brake problems). This new "X" batch should of been rejected but wasn't. My thinking is Uni.com didn't want to step on any toes or have the rim maker cancel out completely. We definately need more tire selection.
    You're absoloutly right. I didn't really want to tell the whole story, but this is my point exatcly. There needs to be a standard to really make this fly.
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  40. #40
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    Too much! Lets go 32"first.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvi
    Too much! Lets go 32"first.
    c'mon... i think it's awesome -- totally bleeding edge type of stuff. 29ers were such an easy transition because the wheel size standard existed... this thread reminded me of that fact. there would be so many challenges to overcome to get it into production -- settling a wheel size standard would just be one of them. but it's not impossible. heck, a lot of people still scoff at the thought of a 29er... just think how bunched up their panties would get if you pulled up to a ride on a friggin 36er! i love it!

    it's not the first bike you'd pull outta the shed every single day, but for sand/beach racing and a select handful of other conditions, i suspect it'd be incredible.

    nice work ben, and my thanks to you for sharing it with us. hopefully i'll get a chance to see it in-person soon.

    cheers,
    mg
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  42. #42
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    My GAWD people.....why don't we just STOP with all this big wheel nonsense and just get rolling on this high-tech Big wheel bike....

    It wasn't me

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hubert
    Right application? ...........
    That bike would rock on this terrain.




    Good grief......what next.
    "Do not touch the trim"

  44. #44
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    I think I saw a clown on this bike at the circus right next to the waterskiing chipmonk.

  45. #45
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    Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by Howeler
    My GAWD people.....why don't we just STOP with all this big wheel nonsense and just get rolling on this high-tech Big wheel bike....

    now that's what i'm talkin' about...
    I like bikes

  46. #46
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    Caution;  Merge;  Workers Ahead! 36" is to small

    I assume that 36" is too small try this. This would be awesome, and try new WB fork for this perhaps DH bike like this flanges, spokes hubs bigger stiffer beefier, stronger

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    An Action Tech fork might work well (light and stiff).

  48. #48
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    Is this a different version of the Dorothy?

  49. #49
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    I want one... just because!

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivet
    That bike would rock on this terrain.
    Good grief......what next.
    Let's talk when you've actually consumed the Kool-Aid of the 29er thing...

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by benwitt11
    Hi guys. Here's a few teaser shots and some info on the 36er I've designed. I will be posting more in depth info after QBP's Frostbike this weekend. Enjoy

    My first impressions, it's more fun than I possibly imagined!
    Will the 36er be @ Frostbike this weekend?

    I remember when I first saw a Coker.
    They still around.
    If so Got a Web Site?

    thanks
    Norm

    See ya maybe @ Frostbike

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidcopperfield
    I assume that 36" is too small try this. This would be awesome, and try new WB fork for this perhaps DH bike like this flanges, spokes hubs bigger stiffer beefier, stronger
    I love the bottom bracket clearance on that thing, but the stand over gives my boys the willies.
    Last edited by Titus Maximus; 02-13-2007 at 09:48 PM.
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  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by rensho
    Or 36/24/36?
    I've got one of those and it rides real nice.

  54. #54
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    Looks like a clowns bike.. ridiculous. Just get and ride man!

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    .

    that is the stupidest thing i have ever seen.

  56. #56
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    I swear, i'm forever 5 years behind the times. I just got a 29er and now this?!?!?!??!?!

    So, some people are commenting (complaining) about toe overlap with the front wheel on a 29er ~> Ben, is there any concern with knee overlap on the bike? (kinda joking ..... kinda not) Sorry if this was asked already, I kinda skipped a couple of pages.


    Rivet - (what's next) - you need to ask? Put a 29er wheel on the rear it so it'll accelerate better, weigh less and have decent tire options. Call it a 39er.
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  58. #58
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    that bike looks awesome. i've ridden (and dream of owning) a 36er unicycle. this bike seems like it'd be hella fun. there's a guy in NYC that does (used to anyway) do some intense stuff on a 36 unicycle, like ride up 5-6 stairs, tear up skateparks, etc. this bike may well be the ultimate enduro bike. unless it's windy. i'll have a coworker take some pics if it's at frostbike. unlucky me is stuck working.
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  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Padre
    Let's talk when you've actually consumed the Kool-Aid of the 29er thing...
    Well, I don't have to eat dog crap to know I wouldn't like the taste.

    Seriously though, now it's just a matter of principle. When someone as loopy as Wasatch Walt on the F88 forum thinks this (see below) about the 29'er crowd, I'm pretty content not being a 29'er rider.

    Do you think that this sort of bizarre thinking is ENHANCED by the nut-freaks in the 29er Forum?
    Are these the D&D players of mtbing?
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  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Padre
    I'd REALLY like to see a bike built for someone my size using those wheels...I dare say it would look "normal." At least I'd look more "normal" on it.
    ditto!

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    Padre, Langen, then have one done! Like with 29", only wheels, fork and frame are 36"-specific. Frame and fork shouldn't be much more expensive than a 29"er (no need to use high-end lightweight solutions), tires cost a bit, so do rims, spokes need to be found and you'll want to use wide-ass hubs that are a bit rare.

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    This is so cool! Thanks for sharing, Ben.

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    I to had a chance to see a picture of this thing a bit earlier as welll and it got me excited. New stuff is always fun!

    That being said... I've seen talk on whether or not this idea sucks, but I've not seen talk on what it could be used for.

    My guess is I would start to hate life pretty fast on my east coast terrain riding a 36er, but who knows?

    So what is this good for? Surely not all forms of riding... The Pugsley shines in certain areas but sucks in others. Where is the 36er gonna shine?

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewTO
    So, some people are commenting (complaining) about toe overlap with the front wheel on a 29er ~> Ben, is there any concern with knee overlap on the bike? (kinda joking ..... kinda not) Sorry if this was asked already, I kinda skipped a couple of pages.
    Knee overlap is something I've not thought of. It could concievably happen, but wouldbe unlikely. I've had some toe rubbing, but that was in big boots on flat pedals with a numb left foot in sub zero temps last night. It really hasn't been a problem.

    My biggest argument about toe overlap is this. Bikes have toe overlap. It happens. All of the road bikes I've ever owned have had toe overlap. My track bike has huge amounts of toe overlap. I would not change these bikes to eliminate the toe overlap, as it would change what I like about how the bikes handle. If toe over lap hasn't been an issue for me on a fixed gear track bike, why would it matter on my mtb? That said, it's a pretty easy thing to design around.
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    In my visualizations, the 36" will shine in :
    - Overly steep hills, because of added traction and long chainstays that keep the front end planted. Down also. Just less manouevrable in the vertical direction (hops).
    - really high-speed low-grip corners
    - bumps, roots and frosen soil style
    - sucky terrain, high-rolling resistance. Like beach shores, cold mud.
    - commuting of course : smooth as can be, no suspension. When crossing curbs, fat tires can make up lots of time on road bikes that have to go through traffic lights and tight corners, I've found.
    - tailwind, high speed situations.
    - flowing singletrack, ride it like rollercoaster cart

    All the above, not in combination with super-sharp switchbacks. Now I haven't seen a sharp switchback in years, some may have a hard time poicking a ride without it.

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    Is this a different version of the Dorothy?
    Not at all, the two bikes are totally unrelated.

    Will the 36er be @ Frostbike this weekend?
    Yes, but not in an official capacity. I don't want to make anyone angry there, and I am talking to some people about not stepping on any toes. I will have it there, if only in the back of my van. I'd be more than willing to show people it. My cell number is 507 581 6198, just give me a call at the show and I'll let you know what's up.

    An Action Tech fork might work well (light and stiff).
    You're right, it might work well. I think that the trade off with any type of suspension is going to be in the handlebar height. Right now they are higher than many people would ride. It's perfect for me, super comfortable and easy on my back, but it's not going to work for everyone. Think of the same problem with super small 29ers. It's really quite similar.
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  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloxxki
    In my visualizations, the 36" will shine in :
    - Overly steep hills, because of added traction and long chainstays that keep the front end planted. Down also. Just less manouevrable in the vertical direction (hops).
    - really high-speed low-grip corners
    - bumps, roots and frosen soil style
    - sucky terrain, high-rolling resistance. Like beach shores, cold mud.
    - commuting of course : smooth as can be, no suspension. When crossing curbs, fat tires can make up lots of time on road bikes that have to go through traffic lights and tight corners, I've found.
    - tailwind, high speed situations.
    - flowing singletrack, ride it like rollercoaster cart

    All the above, not in combination with super-sharp switchbacks. Now I haven't seen a sharp switchback in years, some may have a hard time poicking a ride without it.
    do you suspect that wheel weight and spoke windup and tyre limitations (4 ply for goodness sake at least at the moment) would have any impact on this
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  68. #68
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    Why is this a sticky?
    Last edited by Go Kart Motzart; 02-14-2007 at 12:00 PM.

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    Sorry about the rant. Deleted.
    Last edited by benwitt11; 02-14-2007 at 12:50 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dRjOn
    do you suspect that wheel weight and spoke windup and tyre limitations (4 ply for goodness sake at least at the moment) would have any impact on this
    I expect that for such large wheels, V-brakes help spoke wind-up. I may well be wrong though. More spokes are my answer to every question, and it may be possible to add some spoke holes and upgrade to 48-spoke. Weight? Schmeight!

    4-ply casings, I would guess, make the tire roll slower than it might. Less compliant to soft soil, sinking deeper that it might. Heck, a the 36x2.2" slick may have little on a 26x2.35" Supermoto for rolling over soft beach shores.

    Wheel weight may hurt flickability a slight bit, and obvisously it will be felt when hammering the pedals to velocity increases when out of the saddle. These rims and tires are HEAVY, especially when deviding them by their size in inches. Remember, a proportionate Flyweight 330 tire would be around 450g in 36". real heavy yes.
    The vast size of the bike will make it more at home in terrain with more gentle turns, not the hiking switchback stuff.

    I'll repeat that I do not believe shear wheel weight has a great effect on momentum. Larger wheels roll better, and this is noticed most in no-pedaling situations over bumpy or slow terrain.
    If anything, for climbing the 36"er at 36lb may well climb a long hill faster (or at least easier) than a 26"er with heavy parts but light wheels to reach that 36lb.
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  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG
    Holy Moly! I sure hope you have at least an 8" rotor on the front. I suspect that thing could pick up some serious speed going downhill!!!!
    You skipped physics 101 didn't you?

  72. #72
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    uhhh...nevermind...
    Last edited by None; 02-14-2007 at 05:28 PM.

  73. #73

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    Wasn't it MTBA

    Quote Originally Posted by benwitt11
    If toe over lap hasn't been an issue for me on a fixed gear track bike, why would it matter on my mtb? That said, it's a pretty easy thing to design around.
    that whined about tow overlap...citing something like having problems with tailwhips and Cross-ups on dirt jumps...

    I really dont get the toe lap thing either.

    If it is not clear, I think it is a cool idea what you have done. Perhaps it will not have the impact that 29ers did, but sometimes it is not about what pleases everyone. Not sure what others would want or expect from a bike like this...I think it would be a blast as a in town cruiser, or a commuter.

  74. #74
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    benwitt11: If toe over lap hasn't been an issue for me on a fixed gear track bike, why would it matter on my mtb?

    Huh? Your single track must be awfully straight.
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  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by serious
    benwitt11: If toe over lap hasn't been an issue for me on a fixed gear track bike, why would it matter on my mtb?

    Huh? Your single track must be awfully straight.
    Huh???
    My track is oval.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by serious
    Huh? Your single track must be awfully straight.
    Clearly I ride my road bikes in a straight line, all the time, no turning, not at all. Seriously though, it's not that big of a deal.
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  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by benwitt11
    Knee overlap is something I've not thought of. It could concievably happen, but wouldbe unlikely. I've had some toe rubbing, but that was in big boots on flat pedals with a numb left foot in sub zero temps last night. It really hasn't been a problem.

    My biggest argument about toe overlap is this. Bikes have toe overlap. It happens. All of the road bikes I've ever owned have had toe overlap. My track bike has huge amounts of toe overlap. I would not change these bikes to eliminate the toe overlap, as it would change what I like about how the bikes handle. If toe over lap hasn't been an issue for me on a fixed gear track bike, why would it matter on my mtb? That said, it's a pretty easy thing to design around.
    Thanks for sharing your insight, Ben. 'Preciated, muchly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lidarman
    You skipped physics 101 didn't you?

    Would not the wheel roll over rough terrain faster because the hits would occur at a point on the tire that is closer to horizontal, causing less backwards force (drag) on the bike?

    If this is true and the bike is faster going downhill the 8" rotors could be a better choice because they dissipate heat more effectively while offering more stopping power.

  79. #79
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    UCI will never aprove this! hahhaalol.

    that sorad guys. way to go!

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by benwitt11
    Hi guys. Here's a few teaser shots and some info on the 36er I've designed. I will be posting more in depth info after QBP's Frostbike this weekend. Enjoy!

    Wheelbase: 46 inches.
    Weight: 36 lbs, (with full Surly flask and holder!)
    Chainstay length: 520 mm
    Drivetrain: 3 X 6, 20-90 gear inches
    Standover height: 30.5 inches
    Top tube length: 24.5 inches

    Pic #1: A line up of 26", 29", and 36" wheels featuring the local Titus rep.
    Pic #2: Photo of the bike next to an 18" Salsa El Mariachi for size comparison.

    My first impressions, it's more fun than I possibly imagined!
    Woah.

  81. #81
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    very interesting bike alright. does it have severe toe overlap with the front tire? looks like maybe it does.
    the time is right for violent revolution

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    I've ridden a fixed cross check off-road with a bit of toe overlap. Not a huge deal as it was usually just a buzz on my tire in tight turns. If this 36er was fixed, maybe toe-overlap would be a bigger worry, but a few rides on tight singletrack would quickly teach most riders to turn with the pedals at 6 and 12 not 3 and 9.

  83. #83
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    Barely

    Quote Originally Posted by bikecop
    very interesting bike alright. does it have severe toe overlap with the front tire? looks like maybe it does.
    Actually Ben told me it's not an issue. He has some big earth pads for a guy his size, (13's, if I remember correctly) and he said his feet barely contacted the tire.

    For wheels this size, it's an amazing thing the bike works at all, and to have it actually exceed Ben's expectations is an amazing thing, if you give thought to it. Remember, he is the one that designed this beast!

    Wait until after this weekend. Some more folks will have had a chance to see this up close and perhaps even ride it. Hopefully some of them will chime in here with their impressions.

    Above all, this is about fun. Ben loves bikes and this one is a kick in the pants to ride, judging from his giddy phone call he gave me minutes after he had his first ride on it. I don't think it's about being the "next best thing", "a superior to _____" ,or anything of that nature. It's about, "can it be done and work" and FUN!
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  84. #84
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    With this bike being as unique and hot as it it, I suggest Ben accepts donations for a well-picked charity in return for demo rides on it.
    Like, $10 to poor children in Africa for a 30min ride? Come back late, pay a substantial fine ($20?). I'd rather rent such a bike than a stupid (ok, they';re great fun) go-cart...

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcd
    UCI will never aprove this! hahhaalol.
    I will have to bring it to at least one of the races this year. They're pretty low key around here, I do wonder what the officials would say though. Should be fun.

    Here are a few more pics, one of it in the jig, and a few close ups of the tires. They aren't the best, but remember what we had to start with. The tires with the angled side knobs were done for front/rear use. The one with the straight horizontal grooves is a rear specific tire.

    Cheers
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  86. #86
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    I love the offset seat tube! Just what I would have done to keep chainstay length somewhat in check with minimal fuzz. The slack actual seat post angle will cushion the ride even more.

    Great work on those tires. Looks like there's quite some weight to be saved with trimming :-)

  87. #87
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    Really cool. I want one.

    When you built the wheels did you use the fork as a trueing stand or did you rig something up?

    What's the width on the tires?
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    The wheel without tires fit in a Park trueing stand with 29er adaptors, just barely though. Forget about trying anything with the tire on though. The wheels were built long before the frame was done, I thought they would be harder than making the frame design work out. I built the Surly front/rear wheel first as an experiment. It was about as hard as building a normal wheel, which really surprised me. After that, we thought as long as the hard part was done, why not build the whole bike.

    The rims measure 30mm inside/36-37 outside. The tires are 58mm casing, 45mm tread, and 50mm high off the rim.
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  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by benwitt11
    The wheel without tires fit in a Park trueing stand with 29er adaptors, just barely though. Forget about trying anything with the tire on though. The wheels were built long before the frame was done, I thought they would be harder than making the frame design work out. I built the Surly front/rear wheel first as an experiment. It was about as hard as building a normal wheel, which really surprised me. After that, we thought as long as the hard part was done, why not build the whole bike.

    The rims measure 30mm inside/36-37 outside. The tires are 58mm casing, 45mm tread, and 50mm high off the rim.

    Do you know what? I could see you selling quite a few of these to tall guys...

    This could be the "next BIG thing"...


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  90. #90
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    Neat build!

    I wondered when this would happen. I saw and rode a 36'er beach cruiser in San Deigo about 18mo ago. It was fun, and I figured someone would attempt an MTB sooner or later.

    Yea, my consern would be braking. With more rolling mass on the outside of the wheel, a larger diameter rotor and stronger spokes would be something to think about. It definately brings up some interesting design issues.

    It's great someone is pushing the limits like this. Bigger wheels do make a difference in terra handling. However there will always be that give and take in the weight department.

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  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumset Rumble
    Would not the wheel roll over rough terrain faster because the hits would occur at a point on the tire that is closer to horizontal, causing less backwards force (drag) on the bike?

    If this is true and the bike is faster going downhill the 8" rotors could be a better choice because they dissipate heat more effectively while offering more stopping power.
    I read the original post again and never saw a mention of rough terrain. It looked like the typical it's bigger so it must go faster kind of post.

    My bad for not mindreading and guessing that part of it.

    Bottom line is yes, bigger rotors dissipate heat better and require less force for a given torque in stopping.

    But realize for a given bike speed, a larger wheel rotates at a slower angular rate. To roll out 5 meters in a second takes less revolutions.

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by lidarman

    But realize for a given bike speed, a larger wheel rotates at a slower angular rate. To roll out 5 meters in a second takes less revolutions.
    Hmmm. Rate x Mass has nothing to do with appropriate stopping power? It's the rate of rotation of the wheel? Not sure I follow the argument.

  94. #94
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    In your thread title you promised pictures. So come on - cough up!!!

    I want to see the whole bike without the other bike in front of it. I'd also love to see two riders in single file from the side, one on a 26" and the other on this.

    Cheers,
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  95. #95
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    more more more! i love this

  96. #96
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    ... and if we just ...

    Crazzzzzzzzzzeeeeeeee bike !!!

    Sooooooo,what`s the official launch date of the 36er forum???


    AND, will height restrictions apply !?!


    You`re all mad, but in the very best way.


    Does the 36er require cool aide GRANDE?
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  97. #97
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    SWEET!

    That better be in the shop when I come by Ben....
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  98. #98
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    Two words:

    Diminishing Returns

  99. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hubert
    Right application? ...........

    crushing Pisgah downhills...

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Go Kart Motzart
    Why is this a sticky?
    Good question.

    Should it get moved to the manufacturer’s forum?

    It is the moderators fantasy bike!

  101. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endomaniac
    Good question.

    Should it get moved to the manufacturer’s forum?

    It is the moderators fantasy bike!
    It's a sticky because Site Admin wants it to be ... ok?


    R.
    It is inevitable ...

  102. #102
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    I actually made it a sticky because this project is the most brave I have come across in many years. A mod's job is to "mod" content that deserves extra attention.
    I've chickened out myself, and have heard of many a near-hit, people backing out of doing it last minute. The wheels are clumsily big, and Ben committed to trying it. Invested cash he would never see again if it failed. Will it work? - Won't know till someone makes it happen.

    Funny how whatever a mod does, members will ask questions about it. Bet my life if it hadn't been made a sticky, someone would have asked for it. So, mods get to do what they like. 10.125 views now, it seems to interest someone quite a bit.

  103. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howeler
    My GAWD people.....why don't we just STOP with all this big wheel nonsense and just get rolling on this high-tech Big wheel bike....

    Like this maybe...
    https://www.tallbike.com

    or

    I know nothing about it. I just saw the pic.
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  104. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman
    It's a sticky because Site Admin wants it to be ... ok?


    R.
    How about a subgroup for 36ers in the 29er forum. If the bike works out it could graduate to a sister discussion group. Come to think of it, I think the Pugsley should have a subgroup in the 29er group, it is literally a 29er and making it a subgroup would allow the Pugsley riders to not mix it with all the other Surly riders in the Surly forum and not pizz off all the more "elitist" 29er riders in the 29er group.

    I think the 36er is a great project and I would like to have one some day. Of course I would like a Bentley too....
    "Reports of my death are greatly exaggerated" -- Mark Twain.

  105. #105
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    The ride is incredibly..............

    smile inducing! There were several folks that swung a leg over the bike Saturday and Sunday and not a single person came back with anything but a smile on their face. What is a 36"er good for? In a word........FUN!
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  106. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockhound
    Two words:

    Diminishing Returns
    Two more: Who cares?

    No me. If it is fun, ride it.
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  107. #107
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    Good job! Lot's O' Patience there.

    You guys sure have a lot of patience, that's a lot of grooving time to do those tyres like that. I think that you guys could sell a few of these for sure to the right clients who are taller than usual and have the deep enough pockets for a fully custom one off designs - maybe some NBA guys

    Quote Originally Posted by benwitt11
    I will have to bring it to at least one of the races this year. They're pretty low key around here, I do wonder what the officials would say though. Should be fun.

    Here are a few more pics, one of it in the jig, and a few close ups of the tires. They aren't the best, but remember what we had to start with. The tires with the angled side knobs were done for front/rear use. The one with the straight horizontal grooves is a rear specific tire.

    Cheers
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  108. #108
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    i wanna see a wheelie!

  109. #109
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    Gee, if I believed in conspiracies, I'd think people were deliberately trying to make sure nobody got to see this bike in all it's glory .....

    Here's a little PS work to make the bike visible too (rather than just the smile! )

    What if the Hokey Pokey is what it's all about?
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  110. #110
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    Check this out..........

    I have an un-obstructed view and some spec and ride info here. I'll post more bits later, but pehaps martini will chime in here. He's got a professional grade camera and he took a bunch of photos of this bike as well.
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  111. #111
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    ok...i'll be needing one with a 26.06" eff TT, a 22" ST please.
    thanks.

  112. #112
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    Damn, I want one. It looks like so much fun even just cruising around on one. How long did it take to groove out those tires?
    Looking for a used DH/FR bike, have 1500 PM me with anything you've got

  113. #113
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    In several posts (spread over the web), it was mentioned the cutting takes over an hour per tire (I've worked 4 hours on a tire once for other reasons and less results). Ben can do it in 40mins now, as he's gotten the feel for it.

    If I thought I was ready for such a bike one or 2 years ago, I now REALLY AM READY, darn that's über-cool. It should be served with an ice sculpture of a rider riding it.

    Those longer chainstays do inspire the creative minds to solve it in a pleasing way, don't they?
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  114. #114
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    i want one


  115. #115
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    On the tire thing, it's 40 min a pair. About 20 min per.
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  116. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitar Ted
    I have an un-obstructed view and some spec and ride info here. I'll post more bits later, but pehaps martini will chime in here. He's got a professional grade camera and he took a bunch of photos of this bike as well.
    Thanks GT. What a bike!!!
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  117. #117
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    Who will be the first to give it a sybling (sp)?

    Funny, responses here in 2007 on the 29" forum are much more positive than on any other forum ca 2001 even when 29" had been around for two years already...

  118. #118
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    So does it all start over?

    I stay away from the forums for a few weeks and someone invents a whole new bike category.
    Last edited by Mattman; 02-21-2007 at 12:57 AM.
    Two Wheeled and Too Big

  119. #119
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    Here we go again...... prophesy!..or is it Dejavu?

    Someone comes up with a cool bike based on a bigger than normal wheel size.

    Pretty soon a few people will have these and it will be a fringe movement.

    Those guys will be really cool for a while, but slowly more of us get 36rs and it becomes a bit less cool and less of a fringe thing. You'll run into other riders on 36rs out on your local trail.

    There will be a handfull of small framebuilders who start to specialize in building custom 36rs. A couple small bike or frame companys will make production 36rs.

    MTBR will give us our own forum where we can discuss how cool we are and our bikes are. We'll go into great detail with threads planning our 36rs and more threads to roll out our new machines when we finally finish them. We'll whine about our really limited tire selection and why nobody will make us a suspension forks.

    One day and insider from Trek or Specialized will post pictures of their companys prototype production 36r here on MTBR. This will really bum some of us out. A few of us will leave to find the next fringe bike movement. Most of us will be consoled when we realize that at least now we'll get some more tires and some good forks.

    Can anyone else visualize this scenario?
    Two Wheeled and Too Big

  120. #120
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    Wtf are you talking about?






    Quote Originally Posted by Mattman
    Someone comes up with a cool bike based on a bigger than normal wheel size.

    Pretty soon a few people will have these and it will be a fringe movement.

    Those guys will be really cool for a while, but slowly more of us get 36rs and it becomes a bit less cool and less of a fringe thing. You'll run into other riders on 36rs out on your local trail.

    There will be a handfull of small framebuilders who start to specialize in building custom 36rs. A couple small bike or frame companys will make production 36rs.

    MTBR will give us our own forum where we can discuss how cool we are and our bikes are. We'll go into great detail with threads planning our 36rs and more threads to roll out our new machines when we finally finish them. We'll whine about our really limited tire selection and why nobody will make us a suspension forks.

    One day and insider from Trek or Specialized will post pictures of their companys prototype production 36r here on MTBR. This will really bum some of us out. A few of us will leave to find the next fringe bike movement. Most of us will be consoled when we realize that at least now we'll get some more tires and some good forks.

    Can anyone else visualize this scenario?

  121. #121
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    Well, it is pretty feasible, however to adapt such frame for somebody under 175 cm height will be a chalenge- a 18" frame with inconsiderable toe overlap. The whole Full-Suspenmsion 100-130mm 36er ought to be under 16 kg- it requires state-of-the-art lightr materials like NASA Technology with astronomical prices, whereas normall priced bicycles might be around 18-20 kgs FR or DH and for very tall and strong people to accelerate and handle his machine. In order to make those wheel size a norm, it will take unspoken effort from builders. Furthermore a huge campain to convince the prejudiced mob to start buying these products to draw attention form main fork, tire, hubs&flange builders.
    We need storng wheels.
    Last edited by Davidcopperfield; 02-21-2007 at 05:11 PM.

  122. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidcopperfield
    Well, it is pretty feasible, however to adapt such frame for somebody under 175 cm height will be a chalenge- a 18" frame with inconsiderable toe overlap. The whole Full-Suspenmsion 100-130mm 36er ought to be under 16 kg- it requires state-of-the-art lightr materials like NASA Technology with astronomical prices, whereas normall priced bicycles might be around 18-20 kgs FR or DH and for very tall and strong people to accelerate and handle his machine. In order to make those wheel size a norm, it will take unspoken effort from builders. Furthermore a huge campain to convince the prejudiced mob to start buying these products to draw attention form main fork, tire, hubs&flange builders.
    We need storng wheels.
    I think that you're taking this a little far. Lighten up, it's just a bike.
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  123. #123

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    I dont even know what to say.
    I mean, it looks really nice and it is a hell of a job, but...what to do with it?

  124. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaballoLoco
    I dont even know what to say.
    I mean, it looks really nice and it is a hell of a job, but...what to do with it?
    (Shooting hand into the air!) I know, I know!

    Ride the unholy hell out of it! Grin and hollar!

    What did I win?!?
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  125. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus
    (Shooting hand into the air!) I know, I know!

    Ride the unholy hell out of it! Grin and hollar!

    :
    I'm thinking hard-pack snow bike. I'd done quite a bit of fireroad touring/bikepacking when I lived in Montana and I think it would be the schnitzit for smoothing out washboards and erosion ruts.

  126. #126
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    It must be next to impossible to lift the front end of that sucker off the ground...

  127. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by willapajames
    It must be next to impossible to lift the front end of that sucker off the ground...
    It's not bad at all. My wrench can ride it on one wheels for blocks. Just takes some getting used too.
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  128. #128
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    Uncover the mystery do you have plans for regular production? like 2009-10 model?

  129. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidcopperfield
    Uncover the mystery do you have plans for regular production? like 2009-10 model?
    Custom bikes are available right now in any color, size/geo, or drivetrain configuration. I have no plans for a full scale Taiwanise 36er invasion though. I don't have the budget or time to become an importer.
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  130. #130

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    I see it as another Surly call it "Wadafoxdat".

  131. #131
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    Some time ago Surly didn't like the idea. Perhaps this well-riding bike may change their minds.
    Surly being Surly, they wouldn't do it without their own high-end rim, better tire, wider hubs, etc, making for a very costly project. Possibly more costly than a Pugsley project even, with those large tires that fit few molding machines.

  132. #132
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    FYI, we have decided on a name for the bike. We will be calling ours the "Yardsworth." comments or critisisms are welcome

    We'll see about the guys from Surly. They've ridden it now, and one of them has a 36er uni he just built up. Maybe they'll see something in this design, maybe they won't . Sure would be fun to see what they name there's!
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  133. #133

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    Yardsworth is a pretty cool name.

  134. #134
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    "The Beast"

    I think this gets creapy: 36 is 6 to the second power; the frame build in two triangles. There must be a third six be hidden in the thing.
    The Beast.
    Too scared to ride the damn thing.....

  135. #135
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    Yardsworth is well found!
    It may end up being a Yarder. Or indeed SIX².
    And some, after the Nishiki's, call 29"ers "Bigfoots"...

  136. #136
    mvi
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    The new SixSquare standard . You will have a SSSS in case of a single speed.
    Where can you buy the wheels and tires by the way?

  137. #137
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    3 footer? More traction, more stable!
    "... displays the social skills of a barrel cactus." - TNC

  138. #138
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    Wheels you build yourself, tires come online from unicycle stores, or Ben Da Man, I suppose. I bet he'll deliver the full package if you ask nicely.

  139. #139
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    Smile

    Hello
    You convinced me. How much does 18" ( I am 173cm height) 100mm suspension frame with adjustable 80-100 36" WB Magic cost?
    It outght to weight maximmum 16 kgs. I may pay 5000 $ for such a marvellous bike. Tires? Did you see Kirk Pacenti? I shall chop 2 26" and glue them into 36". What are your views Mr. Benwitt?
    Last edited by Davidcopperfield; 03-22-2007 at 06:52 PM.

  140. #140
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    Dearest Manhole,

    Zip yer yapper before the Punch of Donkey befalls you.

    Cheers

    Quote Originally Posted by Davidcopperfield
    Hello
    You convinced me. How much does 18" ( I am 173cm height) 100mm suspension frame with adjustable 80-100 36" WB Magic cost?
    It outght to weight maximmum 16 kgs. I may pay 5000 $ for such a marvellous bike. Tires? Did you see Kirk Pacenti? I shall chop 2 26" and glue them into 36". What are your views Mr. Benwitt?
    Professional Amateur

  141. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soupboy
    Dearest Manhole,

    Zip yer yapper before the Punch of Donkey befalls you.

    Cheers
    "Ignore list"! In the good old days of linux command line, we called it a "twit list".
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  142. #142
    DWF
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    My question: WTF wasn't that bike at NAHBS?

    Wicked cool. Yardsworth as a name is lame. That rhymes and that's a bad sign. No more rhyming. Not even one more time.
    A man must have enemies and places he is not welcome. In the end we are not only defined by our friends but those against us.

  143. #143
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    Hey Ben-

    Sorry if it's a redundant question (looked, but didn't see), but: Do the Airfoil 36" rims have a sufficient braking surface to be used with V's?

    And do you remember the ERD from when you laced 'em up?

    Thanks man.

    MC

  144. #144
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    ... and if we just ... erd

    Quote Originally Posted by benwitt11
    Both wheels are already laced 4 cross. They have to be to use the spokes that are available.
    http://www.unicycle.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=905
    *edit*
    ERD: 762mm.
    Last edited by totally_fixxated; 03-22-2007 at 11:55 PM. Reason: mo info
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  145. #145
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    WTF wasn't that bike at NAHBS?
    Sorry, I would have loved to have it there. Next year it will be for sure. There may be a refined version at Interbike this year. I'm working out the bugs on some new things now.

    That rhymes and that's a bad sign.
    Come on!

    Hello
    You convinced me. How much does 18" ( I am 173cm height) 100mm suspension frame with adjustable 80-100 36" WB Magic cost?
    It outght to weight maximmum 16 kgs. I may pay 5000 $ for such a marvellous bike. Tires? Did you see Kirk Pacenti? I shall chop 2 26" and glue them into 36". What are your views Mr. Benwitt?
    I'll take this as you're serious. No forks are available at this time, though WB have told me that if I gave them about $5000 they could make it work. With a different frame manufacturer and some bits I'm working on, I don't doubt that what you've asked for could be done.

    I have not talked to Mr Pacenti, but I do have some prototype tires and wheels I'm working on. They are almost there, and the tires weighing in at about 850gm!!! That will drop over 4 lbs of rotating mass off the bike. I'm talking to several people about the possibility of a new rim and tire as well, that's a lot further off though.

    Nothing much, but check out Bicycle Retailer on page 16 if you get it. I thought they did a pretty nice little note.

    The next frame is being produced right now, and will bring the wheelbase down to 45 inches, while making the HA/Trail numbers a bit more quick.

    The ERD is as stated, about 762. It works out to using about 375mm spokes depending on the hubs you use.

    With the different things in the works, I am trying for a 26-27 lb full geared bike by Interbike.
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  146. #146

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    that's amazing

  147. #147
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    Why are we diddling around with 36" wheels and tires? 44's are readily available from Interco and no worries about them being skinny either. Somebody get onto building us a real big-wheel bike!

  148. #148
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    Mike, V brakes would work, but not well. Uni riders use Magura rim brakes on them, but they say that they make a lot of noise. I think that it could be done though.
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  149. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by benwitt11
    Mike, V brakes would work, but not well. Uni riders use Magura rim brakes on them, but they say that they make a lot of noise. I think that it could be done though.
    Magura brakes with gray pads and sanded brake surface = no squeal (from my personal experience). If you have the "reconditioned" airfoil rims, it's best to get that powdercoat off of the brake surface of those missfits. I did mine with a belt sander and you can't tell them apart from factory production but know your limitations before diving in to this one.

    Kevin

  150. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by benwitt11
    Mike, V brakes would work, but not well. Uni riders use Magura rim brakes on them, but they say that they make a lot of noise. I think that it could be done though.
    Gotcha. I was talking with Kris Holm a few weeks ago about that. The result is that all of the Uni rims with his name on them are now coming with machined sidewalls. I just wanted to make sure (hard to tell from the pic) that the surface itself was big enough to take a pad.

    Seems like v's would be plenty strong with that long of a lever. Just trying to find a way to eliminate the (sketchy) spoke windup.

    MC

  151. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by knobbytracks
    Magura brakes with gray pads and sanded brake surface = no squeal (from my personal experience). If you have the "reconditioned" airfoil rims, it's best to get that powdercoat off of the brake surface of those missfits. I did mine with a belt sander and you can't tell them apart from factory production but know your limitations before diving in to this one.

    Kevin
    Duly noted. Thanks.

    MC

  152. #152
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    Seems like v's would be plenty strong with that long of a lever. Just trying to find a way to eliminate the (sketchy) spoke windup.
    That's one of my main concerns as well. I think V's would work really well if the surface was conducive to it.
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  153. #153
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    In a 26" vs 29" brake thread, I remember consensus to have been that for V power goes :
    brake track radius / outer tire radius ~ 0.9, and more meaning more power. With tire height pretty constant and rim diameter the variable, bigger wheels brake a bit (a bit) better with V's. The increased traction may make it seem like more of a difference.

    Way cool that you're making tires Ben, I look forward to what comes from all of this!

    What better promotion for the hypothetical 32" MTB standard than to have perfectly rideable 36"ers pestering the naysayers on the trails? I want both.

  154. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloxxki
    In a 26" vs 29" brake thread, I remember consensus to have been that for V power goes :
    brake track radius / outer tire radius ~ 0.9, and more meaning more power. With tire height pretty constant and rim diameter the variable, bigger wheels brake a bit (a bit) better with V's. The increased traction may make it seem like more of a difference.

    Way cool that you're making tires Ben, I look forward to what comes from all of this!

    What better promotion for the hypothetical 32" MTB standard than to have perfectly rideable 36"ers pestering the naysayers on the trails? I want both.
    This is true. With V brakes a 36" wheel will have roughly 3% more braking power than a 29" wheel and 4% more than a 26" wheel.
    Wanted: broken Titec 2 bolt seatpost, any size

  155. #155
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    Idea! just a thought

    to lower the handlebar height, you may want to look into using misfit pyscles' fubar handlebar. i have been using this bar for the past month and am thrilled about it. on some of their 29er bikes they position this riser bar in the upside down position to give a more 'racer' or traditional feel. the extra sweep might also help with the bikes larger size. pic from www.misfitpsycles.com
    Attached Images Attached Images

  156. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloxxki
    Nice setup!
    Thanks, though tell that to Misfit Psycles - it's not my bike, I just was using that as an example.

  157. #157
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    This is just way too cool!

  158. #158
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    - Benwitt what size of wheels are you using in mm?
    - Are you going to chop two 559- 26" tires and glue/meld them together?
    - At this point is it possible to make a suspension frame as shocks stay in this same lenght and size? This would be the best idea and accelerate the fork apprition

  159. #159
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    You guy's build pansy bicyles! LOL

    I built this Long before any of you built your 36 MTB's
    Before the areo rims were available.
    Chris at Thickbikes.com built it from my designs.
    Sorry, I just think you guys lack imagination! LoL
    I could of built an MTB long ago, but really, if your going to dream, dream BIG!
    Come on now.

  160. #160
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    Like I said,,,,, PANSY bicycles!

    All your whimpy small brain ideas for cool bicycles will get
    Gunned down buy my Nephew and Mr.Pedalsworth in order
    to solidify his place as the builder of the most unique BICYCLES
    IN THE WORLD!!!!! MUAH HA HA HA HA HA HA!!

    p.s. I'm just kidding.
    I'm not crazy,,,,,,,,,,,really!?!?!

  161. #161
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    PANSY PANSY PANSY!


    Simple things amuse simple people.
    Simple enough to understand? LoL
    Note to all the people that asked these talented Frame builders;
    Why try and cross the ocean? The world is flat!
    Why goto the moon?
    Why buy a Viper? They get terrable gas milage!
    If you have to ask why, you are obviosly a follower!
    Last edited by MrPedalsworth; 08-30-2008 at 01:06 PM.

  162. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrPedalsworth
    You guy's build pansy bicyles! LOL

    I built this Long before any of you built your 36 MTB's
    Before the areo rims were available.
    Chris at Thickbikes.com built it from my designs.
    Sorry, I just think you guys lack imagination! LoL
    I could of built an MTB long ago, but really, if your going to dream, dream BIG!
    Come on now.
    It's not the imagination that was lacking. 36" MTB designs have bee posted on here for years. No-one had the guts for it. A cruiser, we knew that was possible.
    Klok - XC - Skate - Ski

  163. #163
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    I'm surprised this thread died after kicking off to a great start. Anything new with the 36er?

  164. #164
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    Well played sir. I like how you use such big words to insult me. I knew about your bike, and if I remember correctly, it weighs about 120lbs. Great design, but not something I'd like to pedal for any distance. As for the machine gun bike, make it a real gun and I'll be impressed. Your first three posts have truly introduced you here are a rebel, a outside of the box thinker, and a douchebag. Cheers.

    As to the pertinent question, there is not much new. We've been riding ours quite a bit, and they've been rocking the gravel around here a lot. I can put down faster times on the 36er on most stretches than on my cross bike, so that's been fun. I'll try to post some recent pics in a few days here.
    I sell bikes here. Check out the Blog here. Facebook.

  165. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by benwitt11
    Well played sir. I like how you use such big words to insult me. I knew about your bike, and if I remember correctly, it weighs about 120lbs. Great design, but not something I'd like to pedal for any distance. As for the machine gun bike, make it a real gun and I'll be impressed. Your first three posts have truly introduced you here are a rebel, a outside of the box thinker, and a douchebag. Cheers.

    Agreed. The guy is a clown and communicates in the most bizarre "9 year old" fashion. I thought the first post was a joke until it kept progressing.


    benwitt11
    As to the pertinent question, there is not much new. We've been riding ours quite a bit, and they've been rocking the gravel around here a lot. I can put down faster times on the 36er on most stretches than on my cross bike, so that's been fun. I'll try to post some recent pics in a few days here.

    I would love to see some more pictures. I did use your links but was never able to find out where you were selling these.

    Thanks

  166. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by benwitt11
    Well played sir. I like how you use such big words to insult me. I knew about your bike, and if I remember correctly, it weighs about 120lbs. Great design, but not something I'd like to pedal for any distance. As for the machine gun bike, make it a real gun and I'll be impressed. Your first three posts have truly introduced you here are a rebel, a outside of the box thinker, and a douchebag. Cheers.


    That was ment to be taken light heartedly. That's what I put the "LoL"'s in for. And I don't think I was so rude to call anyone a "douchebag", like you did yah douchebag. So I exspect an apology,,,,,,,,, yah douchbag. Is pansy that bad? LoL <--- another "joke"

    The Triple Titanic is 120lbs/3 people 40lbs per rider. Lighter then most DH MTB's, Choppers and some Cruisers per person. It rides great! It was built AS a cruiser, note the single speed, and cuises just as good as any other cuiser, but way more fun. 3 person 10 mile plus city bike paths or rail to trails have been done, are easy and get a lot of attention. LOL

    As for the machine gun bike, or as I call it, that "Water Gun" bike. It does really shoot, water. Approxametely 20-30 feet. Both drive trains work and is VERY easy to ride. Full auto guns are illegal in every state exsept NV which requires a permit. And as the front cycle is a 16inch and obviously for little children. Children shooting .500 caliber machine guns is nothing to be impressed with,,,, MISTER! LoL <---- "joke"

    To bebuilding the bicycles we build we must be out of the box thinkers, rebel and have a good sence of humor. Well in some cases 2 out of 3 ain't bad?!?!? LOL <---- another "joke" please don't call me a douchbag again!


    p.s. just fr the record, I like your MTB and think you did VERY nice work! <------ NO joke


    needs a cool paint job, though.

  167. #167
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    GUTS? Please explain?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloxxki
    It's not the imagination that was lacking. 36" MTB designs have bee posted on here for years. No-one had the guts for it. A cruiser, we knew that was possible.
    You see, that's what I don't get? Why do you need "GUTS" to build ANY BICYCLE? What is there to be afraid of? What, is the UCI going to come over and take your bicycle building licence away? If you build a 36 is some catastrophe going to happen?

    "What happend to Ben?"
    Well, he tried to build a 36'er, and his face exploded. WE TOLD HIM NOT TO. But he tried anyway. And now look what happend!"

    Guts to spent the money on a 36'er? Priced a Litespeed lately?

    "We know a cuiser was possible." But even NASA could NEVER build a 36 MTB! It's just not possible. I mean putting a man on the moon was easy. But GEARS on a 36'er. You've go to be CRAZY, INSANE or just someone that like to build cool bicycles.

    Jeez.

  168. #168
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    [QUOTE=Patriot222]Agreed. The guy is a clown and communicates in the most bizarre "9 year old" fashion. I thought the first post was a joke until it kept progressing.

    No YOU communicate like a 9yo!
    yuh huh
    yuh huh <-----meny jokes linked together! Get it?
    yuh huh

    LoL <-----"joke" apparently I have to point out when I am joking as my humor is of a 9yo? LoL<----Joke

    If my metaphors and subtle innuendos don't work for you maybe I should speak like a 6yo? LoL<-------Joke

    LoL<---- another joke Pat<------ another joke. LoL<--- me laughing at my own joke. LoL<---- another Joke. OK, maybe I do communicate like a 9yo!?!? LoL <----- Joke. Ok, this is redundant! LOL <------ Joke

    what a joke
    Last edited by MrPedalsworth; 08-30-2008 at 02:28 PM.

  169. #169
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    Why 36?

    Quote Originally Posted by mvi
    Too much! Lets go 32"first.
    The reason for 36?

    Coker tire, www.coker.com, first came out with the 36 inch tire and built the Monster Cruiser, The Big One unicycle and the Wheelman "Penny Farthing", Boneshaker or Velosiped using it's own tire Coker developed. Since then Unicycle.com developed there rim and tire. And Coker came out with yet another rim and tire also. But unless you have the capitol to set up tooling ( China, Tiawan or India) for your own rim and tire combo, your stuck with what is available.

  170. #170
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  171. #171
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    Just for you information, That is Corky Coker on the 3rd seat of my Triple Titanic. In the middle is Gary Brewer Head engineer at Coker Tire.

    In the parking lot of Coker tire.

  172. #172
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    96er.
    PROFESSIONAL THREAD KILLER!



    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    Maybe I will just start hanging out in the "Recycle Bin" forum.

  173. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrPedalsworth
    The Triple Titanic is 120lbs/3 people 40lbs per rider. Lighter then most DH MTB's,
    Claiming your bike is "lighter then (sic) most DH MTB's" isnt really doing much for ya dude. The majority of Huffys are lighter than most DH MTBs.

    Ive ridden your bike. It was good for a laugh and a 100 yard long novelty.

    Ben is going to let me ride his bike in two weeks..... aren't ya Ben?
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  174. #174
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    It's metric so technicly not a 96'er, LOL

    Right Back At YAH!!!! LOL
    I have one of those also!
    BooYah!

  175. #175
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    Upset U R A Bicycle Snob!

    Quote Originally Posted by chequamagon
    Claiming your bike is "lighter then (sic) most DH MTB's" isnt really doing much for ya dude. The majority of Huffys are lighter than most DH MTBs.

    Ive ridden your bike. It was good for a laugh and a 100 yard long novelty.
    As for the weight of the Triple Titanic, I was mearly pointing out that the person who said they didn't want to ride around a 120lbs bicycle what forgetting the fact that it's 3 people riding around a 120lbs at 40lbs a peice. And that is not at all unreasonable. I wouldn't want to ride around a triple Santana by myself either! Do you have spindley little legs and complain if to have to drag you own kid around in a bicycle trailer? LOL ( WIMP) I saw people doing that on RAGBRI across the sate of IA. And that's more then 40lbs per.

    Sounds to me like your legs are "only good for a laugh and 100 yard long novelty"! LOL

    And I really doupt you've riden my Triple Titanic, lier! The only place I have had it out even remotely near WI was at RAGBRI! I was giving people rides all day long there, BEFORE my bicycle show. We take it out here ALL the time, people line up to ride the 2.65 mile loop around town. And we do it all day long. So don't spew nonsense out of your pie hole when you CLEARLY don't know what your talking about! ( I want to insult you with a very raunchy expletive right now but will take the higher road. But, PLEASE, insert your own.)But then again, maybe you should all quit riding bicycles since you complain so much about riding fun bicycles that weigh more then 25lbs and were not built to win races, but just built to put a smile on you face and have FUN!!!!

    ( WARNING!!!! the folowing contains metaphors)

    Try to have fun, stop to smell the roses, life is not about the destination, but the journey, not every one wants to drive a race car, some people just love big ol Caddies!
    And if it were not for people like Ben here, and all the other bicycle builders that came before him we would all still be riding Boneshakers.

    By the way, please, post some pictures of bicycles YOU desinged. DOLT! LOL
    This way you can see what it's like when goofballs like yourself talk nonsensacle smack!
    If you HAVEN'T designed your own bicycle or bicycle frame, PLEASE, feel free to SHUT THE HELL UP and get a Fixie, you'll fit right in with that crowd perfectly! LOL

    BIKE SNOB!

  176. #176
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    I am liking Mr Pedalsworth more and more.

  177. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrPedalsworth
    And I really doupt you've riden my Triple Titanic, lier! The only place I have had it out even remotely near WI was at RAGBRI! I was giving people rides all day long there, BEFORE my bicycle show.
    Hmm, maybe I was one of those people? Brilliance....



    You remind me of BikerFox. That is all.
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  178. #178
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    More like BF's parasitic twin...

    Professional Amateur

  179. #179
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    Brilliance

    Quote Originally Posted by chequamagon
    Hmm, maybe I was one of those people? Brilliance.....
    Hmmm,,,, So, let me get this straight? I gave you + another a ride down a street, turned around, came back, and you got off. Then I did that for a couple of hours for a bunch of other people.. And as I road back and forth giving as many people a ride that wanted to. You deduced that the Triple Titanic was good for only 100 yards? Your a frick'n genius!

    "Brilliance!"
    Last edited by MrPedalsworth; 09-01-2008 at 12:08 AM.

  180. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrPedalsworth
    Hmmm,,,, So, let me get this straight? I gave you + another a ride down a street, turned around, came back, and you got off. Then I did that for a couple of hours for a bunch of other people.. And as I road (sic) back and forth giving as meny (sic) people a ride that wanted to. You deduced that the Triple Titanic was good for only 100 yards? Your a frick'n genius!

    "Brilliance!"
    U shur kann reed an spel gud!

    It obviously lasts longer than that. I said it was only interesting for that long.
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  181. #181
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    Why oh why do I want to ride that tricycle? It is totally silly! Yet I feel this compulsion to jump on it and hit my local trail. I would look like a total dork on that reliving back when I was 1 year old. Yet, I want to ride it. It sure does look fun!

  182. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhNooo
    Why oh why do I want to ride that tricycle? It is totally silly! Yet I feel this compulsion to jump on it and hit my local trail. I would look like a total dork on that reliving back when I was 1 year old. Yet, I want to ride it. It sure does look fun!
    I want a 36er based Big Wheel with 20" wheels in the back, each with a separate brake so I could turn really fast.

  183. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrPedalsworth
    Full auto guns are illegal in every state exsept NV which requires a permit.
    Umm, no. Please get your facts straight.
    Lol. <-- not a joke. hehe

  184. #184
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    I'd like to see this go back to being about 36" wheeled dirt bikes. This is MTBR after all, with the MTB standing for Mountain Bikes.

    I liked it better before the psycho with the passive aggressive syndrome came in, acting like a circus clown and talking to us like we are three year old kids.
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

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  185. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus
    I'd like to see this go back to being about 36" wheeled dirt bikes. This is MTBR after all, with the MTB standing for Mountain Bikes.
    .
    What does the T stand for then?

  186. #186
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    A.d.d?

    Quote Originally Posted by chequamagon
    U shur kann reed an spel gud!

    It obviously lasts longer than that. I said it was only interesting for that long.
    Ok Mr. A.D.D.
    yah got me there, I'll install some in-flight movies for your entertainment.

  187. #187
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    No good Ummm, Yes

    Quote Originally Posted by ridata
    Umm, no. Please get your facts straight.
    Lol. <-- not a joke. hehe
    My friend has a Full auto license, he lives in Las Vegas. I'll make sure to tell him you said it's no good.

    Look it up.

  188. #188
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    Bonking ... not feelin' well A little to serious, are we?

    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus
    I'd like to see this go back to being about 36" wheeled dirt bikes. This is MTBR after all, with the MTB standing for Mountain Bikes.

    I liked it better before the psycho with the passive aggressive syndrome came in, acting like a circus clown and talking to us like we are three year old kids.
    I read every line of this thread. And couldn't get over how serious some people are about a fun bicycle like the 36. And bringing complicated unnecessary math and physics in to this. I mean really, have you seen off road unicycles? To some pointless, stupid, not practical and slow. But there is a die hard group that love them. God bless um! Same with Fixies, tons of people love them, but it would be hard to win a race with one. But who am I/we to tell people what to ride or what to like? So I thought I'd inject some humor.

    But that when over like a lead balloon!

    So now I will be more serious and not make jokes, as that will be way more interesting and surely not to offend the intellectuals.

    K

    ok

    goodie!

  189. #189
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    Nice

    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected]
    What does the T stand for then?
    LoL

  190. #190
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    Check your spelling while your at it!

    hay chezqueefengone,


    Your Spellings just as bad or worse! LoL

  191. #191
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    I want the gun of Rambo...

    When I first saw this thread this morning, I thought how stupid are these people. Then I realized it's just me, and I should be happy that others are trying crazy stuff to maybe (or not) better the sport.

    Now I say thank you for spending your time and money on something that doesn't hurt me today, and may benefit me in the future.


    Quote Originally Posted by MrPedalsworth
    My friend has a Full auto license, he lives in Las Vegas. I'll make sure to tell him you said it's no good.

    Look it up.
    Many states allow a Federal Firearms Permit, allowing ownership and trade of these 'full auto' weapons mentioned in addition to fully silenced weaponry. I have said permit in Georgia. Come down south and you'll be surprised how many people own the gun of Rambo as it is candidly described in the movie "Lord of War."

    Breaking and entering in the southern suburbs are not much of a threat when compared to localities with full restrictions!

    I love the USA!!!!

  192. #192
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    I think it's sick (in the mentally disturbed way) to allow people to own/carry guns. People are the very least of responsible beings to handle guns. In countries where guns are disallowed, only criminals get shot, either by the police, or by themselves.

    And yes, it's about performance mountainbikes here, that's the really BIG challenge of a 36" wheel. It's a wheel, so it will roll. But make it work off-road, and not like a circus bike compared to 26" and 29" bikes, that's something else, less chance of success, more finesse required. That's why Ben is da man.
    Klok - XC - Skate - Ski

  193. #193
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    Worst thread ever.

  194. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrPedalsworth
    My friend has a Full auto license, he lives in Las Vegas. I'll make sure to tell him you said it's no good.

    Look it up.

    i have a friend, he lives in montana. he has a license for an automobile. since he lives there and he has one, that must mean that it is only legal to drive an automobile in Montana.
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  195. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected]
    What does the T stand for then?
    Mt. the abbreviation for Mountain or just Mount, i.e. Mt Blanc. So MounTain Bike became MTB. Actually most of it makes no sense. I thought you might know, being on that side of the pond where language was invented - we just corrupted it over here.
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

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  196. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloxxki
    I think it's sick (in the mentally disturbed way) to allow people to own/carry guns. People are the very least of responsible beings to handle guns. In countries where guns are disallowed, only criminals get shot, either by the police, or by themselves.
    I'm craaaaaaazy!

  197. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Padre
    I'm craaaaaaazy!
    Aren't you like eight feet tall? You could probably just scowl and puff your chest out to the same effect as brandishing a handgun.

  198. #198
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    If you're feeling insecure, wear a bulletproof vest. Bullets secure nothing, just draw more terror. Which war was ever prevented by supplying more weapons to quarrelling parties?

  199. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink1373
    Aren't you like eight feet tall? You could probably just scowl and puff your chest out to the same effect as brandishing a handgun.
    Yeah...totally. That'll work.

  200. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloxxki
    If you're feeling insecure, wear a bulletproof vest. Bullets secure nothing, just draw more terror. Which war was ever prevented by supplying more weapons to quarrelling parties?
    If guns kill people, then ...
    Pencils miss spel words,
    Cars make people drive drunk,
    Spoons make people fat.
    Bikes make hilarious internet message boards.
    Last edited by Padre; 09-01-2008 at 04:31 PM.

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