36 spoke road rim or 32 spoke 29er rim- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 17 of 17
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    102

    36 spoke road rim or 32 spoke 29er rim

    I'm planning out my 29er-to-be for next summer, but I can't decide on rims. I know this subject has been beaten to death, but bear with me. I am going to do Chris King ISO disc hubs and DT SuperComp 1.8/1.7/2.0 spokes with brass nips. My initial rim plan was to go with Bontrager Mustang Discs... they seem to be the only actual 29" specific rim (I'm not counting 'cross or touring rims). They have an offset spoke bed, which I like, and are reasonably light at ~480 grams (actual).

    Then I started to see people running road rims- in particular the IRD Cadence road. I will not use this rim because it is pinned instead of welded, and I have had nothing but bad experiences with their customer service. I looked elsewhere, and the Mavic Open Pro is probably the best/strongest/lightest rim you can get for the price. It is THE standard by which all other road rims are measured. It weighs only 425g. It's not super narrow either (I think 19.8mm wide). One reason I have considered this rim is because I can get it in a 36 spoke vs 32 for the Bontrager. This is appealing since a 29" wheel is inherently weaker than a 26".

    I have also looked at the DT 29" rim (the TK 7.1), but it is kinda heavy at 540 grams. I have spoken with DT several times about the possibility of a lighter weight 29" rim, and I got the impression that it is a possibility. It all depends on market demand. I'd love to see a 29" version of the XR 4.1. Something around 450-460 grams (actual, not claimed).

    What do you guys think? I am not too worried about breaking wheels, regardless of rim choice. I am 165 lbs and will proabably run a ~2.1 width tire. Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Recovering couch patato
    Reputation: Cloxxki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    14,017
    OPen pro is not a strong rim IMO. Although I had ~430g one, and the recent ones seem to come in heavier. Problem with these, they're road-narrow, thus by design not very stiff, and of the already low weigth, a BIG chuck is in the double eyelets. I bet the 29" specific NoTubes rims (391-392g, out of stock I hear) are not only much lighter, but also way stiffer.

    I really like the idea of owning the Mustangs one day, claimed weights never over 490g as far as I paid attention.

    Hard to get perhaps, although I could have owned a pile if I wanted to, the Rigida Taurus Disc 2000. 27mm or so wide, and just 520g. Was stock on BeOne's for some time.

    IMO, when looking for a combination of both light and strong, 36h with light spokes makes sense anyway. I'm no wheelbuilder, but I'd rather get 36h with DT Revolutions than 32h SuperComps, absed on what I know, heard and "feel" about wheels right now. The first is probably both stiffer, cheaper and perhaps even lighter. You can calculate that yourself.
    For the front, 32h with a proper XC or Trekking rim seems to suffice for about every weight rider. Sometimes a 36h rear would be a nice bonus, but with decent rims (my 480-540g Velocity Dyads and Salsa ~520g) 32h has always been good for my 190lb XC rocket riding style.
    Klok - XC - Skate - Ski

  3. #3
    Recovering Weight Weenie
    Reputation: Padre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    8,814
    I've got 32 hole Rhynolites. Been ridin hard, off-road, rigid, for over a year now..been trued once.

    I've just purchased a set of 36 hole Rhynolites for my new Lenz. They should be even more stout I suppose.

  4. #4
    Schipperkes are cool.
    Reputation: banks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    4,154
    The "road" rim is not wide enough.
    There are members here who have been using them for a long time though.

    Scoty
    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee
    Better suited to non-aggressive 125# gals named Russell.
    I ride so slow, your Garmin will shut off.

  5. #5
    zeebot
    Reputation: Spookykinkajou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,125
    I spoke with my wheelbuilder yesterday and he thought the Velocity aerohead oc would be a good choice. 32H was what we were considering.

    I also just spoke with Stan @ notubes to get info on the 29er rims he offers and he said they are in the que, but behind quite a stack of 26" rims and to call back in a few weeks for a better arrival date. He was guessing late Feb to early Mar.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: qtip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    515

    Open Pro

    I started my 29er experience on an Open Pro and an MA3. They held the WTB Moto 2.1 tires just fine and they seemed like strong enough hoops. My Open Pro split at the seam after only a few months of use. I'm not sure if it is because there is not a lot of material in the side walls to begin with, but I replaced it with an MA3 and never had the issue again.

    Right now I'm on some Alex TD-17s and I'm happy with them so far. I like the extra width of the Alex.

  7. #7
    Bored
    Reputation: bigwheelboy_490's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    1,982

    Rim Width

    It has been my understanding that with a road rim being so narrow, the 29" tire will have less side wall stability and a squirmy feeling at lower pressures. A wider rim helps offsets this affect.

    Also, with the constant comments about 29" wheel strength being less I have two points:

    1) Strength all comes down to the wheel quality. If you use a cheap parts and poor build quality, you will have a weak wheel.

    2) If wheel strength was that much greater at 26" verses 29", why wouldn't road racers go to 650C wheels for Paris Roubaix? Wheels during that race take a huge amount of abuse, yet they stay to the 700C standard.
    MTBR is serious stuff.
    You never get better until you get out of your comfort zone.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    102
    Quote Originally Posted by bigwheelboy_490
    It has been my understanding that with a road rim being so narrow, the 29" tire will have less side wall stability and a squirmy feeling at lower pressures. A wider rim helps offsets this affect.

    Also, with the constant comments about 29" wheel strength being less I have two points:

    1) Strength all comes down to the wheel quality. If you use a cheap parts and poor build quality, you will have a weak wheel.

    2) If wheel strength was that much greater at 26" verses 29", why wouldn't road racers go to 650C wheels for Paris Roubaix? Wheels during that race take a huge amount of abuse, yet they stay to the 700C standard.
    The Pro's in the Paris Roubaix don't use 650's because it would completely change the geometry and handling charictaristics that they're used to. They would also ride harder (read: uncomfortable) due to shorter spokes and be stiffer overall. Mountain guys don't have issues with this because they're running much larger tires than a 24mm wide road tire that is typical in the Roubaix. They typically use ~400 gram box section tubular rims with 32 or 36 spokes laced 3x.

    Back to the 29er rims...
    I don't think it is going to make a huge difference if I go 32 or 36 spokes. I'll take what I can get and look for a quality rim over spoke number. I don't like DT Revolutions because they tend to wind up a lot and have a tendency to stretch. I don't like the idea of a 1.5 middle section with disc brakes. DT recommends using Competitions (2.0/1.8/2.0), Supercomps (1.8/1.7/2.0) or Aerolite (2.0 double forged blade). The Supercomps are the best compromise between price, weight, and performance. Here is what DT had to say to me:
    "Yes, the Aerolight is appropriate for XC and XC disc brake use. We offer such a wheelset in 26. It is a very strong spoke, as it is first butted (forged), then bladed (forged again). I would not hesitate to recommend it for your racing wheel set (or training too if you want to spend the money.

    I think the Supercomp (my personal favorite spoke) is a better match to our TK rim and a decent reliable no nonsense way to save weight on this wheel set. This spoke was specifically designed for light weight XC disc applications. The Supercomp is just big enough to resist wind up even with Prolock nipples. This spoke sits between the Revolution and the Completion in diameter and weight. "


    If they (DT) do indeed come out with a lightweight 29" rim, I'd be all over it. At this point it looks like Bontrager might be it. I have yet to see the 29" NoTubes rim. Do any of you have experience with it? 390 grams for a 29" rim is quite light. What is the width? Does anybody have a link for me that I could see the rim?

    The hunt for the perfect 29er rim continues...

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    377

    Mustang

    Greg,
    I have used almost all of the above rims. I think your choice is easy. Mustang. Light, strong, wide, looks great. With supercomps, you will have no issues if it is built by someone who knows what they are doing. Stans rim is awesome. Weight was 401-403 grams for mine. They are 24.5 wide, and have a slightly larger erd to fit tires tighter, also designed for use tubless (with the appropriate tires. ) Look for my reviews on this rim if you are interested, but they are not available right now. Also, I would only use them as a race wheelset if I were you (very expensive at $100 each.) Best bet is to go with Mustang for an everyday wheel. I have FOUR different mustang wheelsets, no problems.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    410
    Quote Originally Posted by gregk
    I'm planning out my 29er-to-be for next summer, but I can't decide on rims. I know this subject has been beaten to death, but bear with me. I am going to do Chris King ISO disc hubs and DT SuperComp 1.8/1.7/2.0 spokes with brass nips. My initial rim plan was to go with Bontrager Mustang Discs... they seem to be the only actual 29" specific rim (I'm not counting 'cross or touring rims). They have an offset spoke bed, which I like, and are reasonably light at ~480 grams (actual).

    Then I started to see people running road rims- in particular the IRD Cadence road. I will not use this rim because it is pinned instead of welded, and I have had nothing but bad experiences with their customer service. I looked elsewhere, and the Mavic Open Pro is probably the best/strongest/lightest rim you can get for the price. It is THE standard by which all other road rims are measured. It weighs only 425g. It's not super narrow either (I think 19.8mm wide). One reason I have considered this rim is because I can get it in a 36 spoke vs 32 for the Bontrager. This is appealing since a 29" wheel is inherently weaker than a 26".

    I have also looked at the DT 29" rim (the TK 7.1), but it is kinda heavy at 540 grams. I have spoken with DT several times about the possibility of a lighter weight 29" rim, and I got the impression that it is a possibility. It all depends on market demand. I'd love to see a 29" version of the XR 4.1. Something around 450-460 grams (actual, not claimed).

    What do you guys think? I am not too worried about breaking wheels, regardless of rim choice. I am 165 lbs and will proabably run a ~2.1 width tire. Thoughts?

    I don't know what makes a rim 29er specific...certainly 700c tandem and loaded touring rims are plenty strong and wide, but no _really_ strong rims are going to be in the weight class you're interested in.

    I'd advise against the supercomp spokes. The twisty 1.7 diameter section makes it a royal pain in the a55 to get adequate tension for a strong wheel or do easy trail repairs. You'll have easier maintenance and similar weight with 32 1.8 or 2.0 spokes. Also, if you like your tires under 40 psi, go with a regular MTB width rim. My tires were floppy on the Open Pros. Salsa Delgados work.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    102
    Quote Originally Posted by slim_pickens
    I don't know what makes a rim 29er specific...certainly 700c tandem and loaded touring rims are plenty strong and wide, but no _really_ strong rims are going to be in the weight class you're interested in.

    I'd advise against the supercomp spokes. The twisty 1.7 diameter section makes it a royal pain in the a55 to get adequate tension for a strong wheel or do easy trail repairs. You'll have easier maintenance and similar weight with 32 1.8 or 2.0 spokes. Also, if you like your tires under 40 psi, go with a regular MTB width rim. My tires were floppy on the Open Pros. Salsa Delgados work.
    I meant 29" specific because the Mustang is the only DISC 29" rim. It was intended for 29" mountain bikes with disc brakes because it has no machined braking surface. Rims such as the Velocity Dyad or Salsa Delgado even say on their websites that they're for tandems or cyclocross, but mention at the end that they "work well for 29" mountain bikes". I'm not saying that they don't work, just that they weren't made with the intention of being specifically for a mountain bike.

    I will be building the wheels myself, so I am confident in the quality. I am not a "master" builder, but I have learned from a highly skilled builder. My shop is DT certified. I have built 5 road wheels so far, and all have stayed true, round, and overall bombproof. I haven't broken a spoke, and only had to true one wheel after the first couple hundred miles because I did not de-tension the spokes 100% before applying Spoke Freeze (DT's thread locker) to the spoke threads. I am a perfectionist with my bikes- especially wheels. Wheel building is one of those things that just takes experience to do. I have read a couple books on it and watched several wheels be built before I was walked through the process on my first build. As long as you triple check your spoke length calculations and use proper/even tension, the wheels should hold up. There are also small things that make a difference, such as seating the spoke heads and ensuring there is absolutely no spoke wind-up. You can have a wheel built with good quality parts, but with un-even spoke tension and spokes that are 3mm too short (not enough thread in the nipples) and you'll still get a crappy wheel. That being said, even if a wheel is well built, it can still break if you choose your parts poorly i.e. super low spoke counts, really thin spokes, aluminum nipples, pinned rims.


    Back to Stan's- Iooked at www.notubes.com, but didn't see anything about their 29" rim- where can I find specs on this rim? Who sells them?

  12. #12
    Recovering couch patato
    Reputation: Cloxxki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    14,017
    Alex TD17, Rigida Taurus 2000. Both trailworthy disc-only rims. TD17, 555-560g. even has special anti-snakebite design. Taurus extremely wide for a 520g rim.
    Klok - XC - Skate - Ski

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    410
    Quote Originally Posted by gregk
    I meant 29" specific because the Mustang is the only DISC 29" rim. It was intended for 29" mountain bikes with disc brakes because it has no machined braking surface. Rims such as the Velocity Dyad or Salsa Delgado even say on their websites that they're for tandems or cyclocross, but mention at the end that they "work well for 29" mountain bikes". I'm not saying that they don't work, just that they weren't made with the intention of being specifically for a mountain bike.

    I will be building the wheels myself, so I am confident in the quality. I am not a "master" builder, but I have learned from a highly skilled builder. My shop is DT certified. I have built 5 road wheels so far, and all have stayed true, round, and overall bombproof. I haven't broken a spoke, and only had to true one wheel after the first couple hundred miles because I did not de-tension the spokes 100% before applying Spoke Freeze (DT's thread locker) to the spoke threads. I am a perfectionist with my bikes- especially wheels. Wheel building is one of those things that just takes experience to do. I have read a couple books on it and watched several wheels be built before I was walked through the process on my first build. As long as you triple check your spoke length calculations and use proper/even tension, the wheels should hold up. There are also small things that make a difference, such as seating the spoke heads and ensuring there is absolutely no spoke wind-up. You can have a wheel built with good quality parts, but with un-even spoke tension and spokes that are 3mm too short (not enough thread in the nipples) and you'll still get a crappy wheel. That being said, even if a wheel is well built, it can still break if you choose your parts poorly i.e. super low spoke counts, really thin spokes, aluminum nipples, pinned rims.
    I know what makes strong wheels and I can build them. I thought you were asking this forum for advice on a wheel build.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    102
    Quote Originally Posted by slim_pickens
    I know what makes strong wheels and I can build them. I thought you were asking this forum for advice on a wheel build.
    I am- and I wasn't trying to attack you or anything, just typing my thoughts. I think I am going to stay away from regular "road" rims because, as you and others have said, they are narrow and don't lend well to handling and low pressures. I was unaware that you are a wheelbuilder, so I was simply trying to reason why I think I'll be okay with the SuperComp spokes because I can build good wheels. I realize that the 2.0/1.8/2.0 spoke is stronger, but based on what DT has said, the Supercomp can still resist spoke wind-up. What I might end up doing is going with Mustangs/2.0/1.8's for every day (or even heavier rims perhaps) and Stans/Supercomps for racing. I suppose it all depends on what the budget allows once the build time approaches.

    One way I like to avoid wind-up is to mark all the spokes in the same place near the threads with a marker or paint pen. All you need is a small dot. This way, you have a reference point when you start to tension the wheels. If the dot moves with the nipple, you know you need to back up until the dot goes back to where it started. I usually place them parallel or perpendicular to the rim, so they're all the same and easy to see.

  15. #15
    Recovering couch patato
    Reputation: Cloxxki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    14,017
    Give up SuperComps, and go Aerolite for a freaky light yet very stiff set. with Stan's rims, costs are less of an object anyway. The flat blades are relatively easy to prevent from widing, with a 1mm sleeve in a plastic tire lever. That's how my oldskool wheelbuilder does his magic.
    A 26" Tune/Stans/flat spoke wheelset won a test in a german mag last year, I posted it on this forum. All the good hubs and rims were in the test.
    Klok - XC - Skate - Ski

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    410
    Quote Originally Posted by gregk
    I am- and I wasn't trying to attack you or anything, just typing my thoughts. I think I am going to stay away from regular "road" rims because, as you and others have said, they are narrow and don't lend well to handling and low pressures. I was unaware that you are a wheelbuilder, so I was simply trying to reason why I think I'll be okay with the SuperComp spokes because I can build good wheels. I realize that the 2.0/1.8/2.0 spoke is stronger, but based on what DT has said, the Supercomp can still resist spoke wind-up. What I might end up doing is going with Mustangs/2.0/1.8's for every day (or even heavier rims perhaps) and Stans/Supercomps for racing. I suppose it all depends on what the budget allows once the build time approaches.

    One way I like to avoid wind-up is to mark all the spokes in the same place near the threads with a marker or paint pen. All you need is a small dot. This way, you have a reference point when you start to tension the wheels. If the dot moves with the nipple, you know you need to back up until the dot goes back to where it started. I usually place them parallel or perpendicular to the rim, so they're all the same and easy to see.
    No trouble. My experience with Supercomps conflicts with DT's statement. They wind up quite a bit even with oiled threads, and for my purposes, I don't think the extra effort building and truing is worth the weight savings. I'm sure you can make them work though. Good luck.

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation: MikeDee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    1,918
    Well, if 32 spokes hold up for a road bike, they will hold up for a mountain bike with that big, cushy, low pressure tire to protect the rim/wheel. FYI, the Bontrager disc wheels that came with my Fisher 292 only have 28 spokes.

Similar Threads

  1. double vs. straight / 36 vs. 32 - new wheel help!
    By rpet in forum Wheels and Tires
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 12-09-2004, 12:50 PM
  2. 29er Wheel flex, rim brakes vs disk brakes
    By Kansasflatlander in forum 29er Bikes
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-05-2004, 08:31 PM
  3. 36 holes hub on 32 holes rim
    By polpan in forum Beginner's Corner
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 07-15-2004, 07:59 PM
  4. 32 vs 36 spoke?
    By Quattro in forum Wheels and Tires
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 04-09-2004, 07:37 AM

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.