21lb FS 29er build (Pro-Mance M9007)- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    21lb FS 29er build (Pro-Mance M7007-II/M9007)

    21lb FS 29er build (Pro-Mance M9007)-1-min.jpg

    The geometry, aesthetics, and weights of Chinese open mold XC frames have substantially progressed within the last year while costs remain extremely low. In August of last year, for example, a frame was opened and licensed to three companies (marketed as Pro-Mance M9007/M7007, Hongfu HF-FM258, and TanTan FM078). Some additional adjustments were made to the mold: Hongfu modified the top-tube/seat-tube junction to resemble the Scott Spark while Pro-Mance introduced a boost option. Additionally, Pro-Mance is able to custom manufacture an ultralight T800/T1000 carbon fiber version of this frame (about 150g lighter). Of any XC 29er open mold, this frame looks to be the most aggressive, with the geometry being remarkably similar to the Scott Spark and the weight being the lowest of any chiner FS frame to date. That is, until the new Workswell frame hits the market later this summer.

    I bought a 19” boost M9007 frame from Pro-Mance with ultralight T800/T1000 construction. Trailside weight of my build is just under 21 lbs. I am very impressed by the character and handling of the bike, not to mention the weight.

    21lb FS 29er build (Pro-Mance M9007)-3-min.jpg


    CONSTRUCTION & FEATURES
    The T800/T1000 ultralight M9007 boost frame from Pro-Mance is claimed to be 1850g for a 19”, though my frame (with derailleur hanger, cable routing ports, and shock mounting hardware) weighed 2020g. I did have it painted, but the weight is still heavier than anticipated.

    The suspension linkage is carbon. Frame hardware is alloy. There is no squeaking or creaking through suspension compressions, an issue I have had with ICAN frames where plastic hardware was used. The shock hardware (two sets of 1" recessed bolts and M6 allen screws) provided with the frame are compatible with the 8mm x 21.8mm (0.860) 5-piece Fox Shock hardware kits provided online (Worldwide Cyclery). Order two kits, one for the top and one for the bottom of the shock. The rear axle is heavy, I recommend an upgrade.

    21lb FS 29er build (Pro-Mance M9007)-7-min.jpg

    The internal routing is easy to set up, thanks to an accessible and thoughtful layout of the ports. The rear brake and derailleur cable are routed underneath the bottom bracket where they are susceptible to damage on impact. The rear brake caliper is mounted on the seat stay, while the cable routing port is on the inside of the chainstay and quite close to the axle, making for an awkward routing situation.

    A single bottle mount on the downtube fits medium and small bottles. The frame is dropper compatible and should fit long travel posts. The bottom-bracket shell is press-fit.

    I went with the boost M9007 frame to be certain I can ride 27.5x3.0 tires in addition to my 29x2.25 pair. There is probably not enough clearance for a knobbier or wider tire in the rear. The chainring clearance is also quite limited, I don’t think a 38T would fit, and I haven’t tested a 36T, but that would be tight as well. No chainstay protector mechanism is built into the frame, so you’ll want to find your own solution for that.

    21lb FS 29er build (Pro-Mance M9007)-4-min.jpg


    GEOMETRY
    The M9007’s geometry falls into the aggressive XC category, with numbers very similar to the Scott Spark, though not identical.
    21lb FS 29er build (Pro-Mance M9007)-geometry.jpg


    BUILD KIT
    Following proper weight weenie protocol, I gram-counted everything. However, I bored of this attitude and shifted towards putting together a smashing race-ready build. The trailside weight is just under 21 pounds. Sub-20 certainly was possible.

    Suspension
    The suspension is Fox Factory, with a boost Float 32 SC up front and a Float 6.5”x1.5” DPS shock in the rear. Neither have remote lockout.

    Drivetrain
    The drivetrain includes a RaceFace Next SL G4 crankset with OneUp boost 32T round/oval Switch chainring, SRAM XG-1195 cassette, and Shimano XTR 1x11 derailleur/shifter.
    21lb FS 29er build (Pro-Mance M9007)-5-min.jpg

    Brakes
    Brakes are XTR Race with Ashima AI2 rotors. The power is not great, but enough for my Midwest XC riding.
    21lb FS 29er build (Pro-Mance M9007)-11-min.jpg

    21lb FS 29er build (Pro-Mance M9007)-8-min.jpg

    Cockpit
    The cockpit is the popular padded carbon saddle from Aliexpress (absolutely recommend), a Chiner 720mm flat carbon handlebar (tried 7 models, this is the only one stiff enough for me), Kalloy Uno 60mm -7o stem, silicone grips (orange are on the way), and a Chiner carbon seatpost.
    21lb FS 29er build (Pro-Mance M9007)-10-min.jpg

    21lb FS 29er build (Pro-Mance M9007)-12-min.jpg

    Wheelset
    A 1280g wheelset from Speedsafe helped keep things light and affordable. Boost DT Swiss 350 hubs were laced to monocoque 310g 24mm-wide 29er carbon rims with Pillar Xtra-Aero spokes and Pillar alloy nipples. Wheels were excellently tensioned and trued and shipped within 2 weeks. Tubeless setup required an air compressor due to hookless sidewalls. Order from Aliexpress. Speedsafe knows their stuff, I highly recommend them. I’ll write a separate review on the Speedsafe wheels after a thousand miles. At present they feel featherweight and I love the stiffness. I am mainly interested in the rim durability long-term.

    21lb FS 29er build (Pro-Mance M9007)-9-min.jpg

    Tires
    Tires are Maxxis Ikon 29x2.25 3C/EXO Skinwall, and I’ll ride them till they break and then get something different—maybe an Ardent in the front and an Aspen in the rear. Traction is not as anticipated. Tubeless setup.
    21lb FS 29er build (Pro-Mance M9007)-6-min.jpgOther parts
    Lots of little details also shave weight. Some Ti bolts, Syntace rear axle, carbon seatpost clamp, lightweight shift cable housing, stingy amounts of sealant, XTR pedals, carbon bottle cage, etc.

    RIDE IMPRESSIONS
    I have just 30 miles of Michigan singletrack on this bike so far, but I am incredibly pleased with the feel. A friend of mine also bought a Spark RC Pro bike, and I’ve got to say the bikes would feel identical except that my bike is 3 pounds lighter. We both come from hardtails, so we are absolutely shredding the gnar and loving every mile. At 6’2” the 19” frame size is working well for me, although I might go for a 21” if it becomes an option.

    I think you can read any Spark review and apply the characteristics and handling of the ride to this frame. At 21 pounds, acceleration on my build is almost effortless--it climbs like a goat and descends like a beast. It shines most in the technical climbs, there just isn’t a bike built any better for these sections than a lightweight FS with a steep HTA.


    AVAILABILITY & LOGISTICS
    Hongfu, Tantan, and Pro-Mance are all stocking this frame in 15”, 17”, and 19” sizes. If you want boost, go with Pro-Mance, if you want a Spark-esque seat tube/top tube junction, go with Hongfu. I was personally very happy with the customer service that Al Zhu at Pro-Mance provided. He was always fast to reply, transparent about how things were going, and handled my special requests patiently. I recommend negotiating on the price. Hongfu has a special pre-order offer at the moment, but chances are Pro-Mance can match that price.

    I waited 4 months to get my frame. I ordered something that was not in stock, needed custom-cut paint decals, and I ordered right before 3 weeks of Chinese New Year holidays. But I also got a good price. I recommend avoiding my mistakes to help speed things up for you. You can get frames that are in stock in as quickly as two weeks.
    Last edited by sissypants; 01-18-2019 at 07:33 AM.

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    great review and great looking bike.

    I ran the Ikons all last year and I was also not impressed. They feel awful on the front. My new Blur has Aspens F/R and they are much better although I'm sure their durability is not great.

    For a chainstay protector I would cut a tube down into a 1-2" section and start at the bb side, wrap it around and zip tie off the end. Been doing that for years and I think it looks clean.

  3. #3
    Ride Fast Take Chances :)
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    Nice build. Your brakes are way to close to your grips. Do you use 2 fingers to brake?
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    Nice build. Your brakes are way to close to your grips. Do you use 2 fingers to brake?
    Yep, personal preference.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by givemefive View Post
    great review and great looking bike.

    I ran the Ikons all last year and I was also not impressed. They feel awful on the front. My new Blur has Aspens F/R and they are much better although I'm sure their durability is not great.

    For a chainstay protector I would cut a tube down into a 1-2" section and start at the bb side, wrap it around and zip tie off the end. Been doing that for years and I think it looks clean.
    Thanks, I'll have to try your tube trick. Sounds straightforward and shouldn't look too bad either.

  6. #6
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    Pretty hard for me to believe that bike is 21 pounds. How good is that scale you used?

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    Can you show a close-up of rear tire clearance? Awesome build.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDee View Post
    Pretty hard for me to believe that bike is 21 pounds. How good is that scale you used?
    I'll take a pic tonight. It's a good scale For once my predicted weight was right on.

    Frame: Pro-mance Boost FS 29er T800 19" (2020g)
    Fork: 2017 Fox Float 32 29" SC boost factory orange (1350g)
    Shock: 2016 Fox Float Factory 6.5" x 1.5" DPS (221g)
    Shifter Cable: Jagwire SL (50g)
    Headset: Cane Creek 40 tapered integrated (110g)
    Thru-Axle: Syntace 12x148mm (40g)
    Crankset: Race Face Next SL orange (360g)
    Bottom Bracket: RaceFace BB92 30mm (106g)
    Chainring Carrier: OneUp Switch boost cinch standard (40g)
    Chainring: OneUp 32T round Switch (45g)
    Cassette: SRAM X01 XG-1195 (254g)
    Chain: KMC X11SL (245g)
    Shifter: Shimano XTR M9000 11s (118g)
    Derailleur: Shimano XTR M9000 11s GS (221g)
    Brakes: Shimano XTR M9000 Race (400g)
    Rotors: Ashima AI2 160mm (170g)
    Saddle: Padded carbon saddle (134g)
    Seatpost: UD matte carbon 31.6mm 400mm (180g)
    Stem: Kalloy Uno 60mm -7-degree (80g)
    Handlebar: 720mm 31.8 carbon (135g)
    Grips: Silicone w/ end caps (21g)
    Pedals: Shimano M9000 SPD (301g)
    Wheelset: Speedsafe 29" carbon, DT 350 straight-pull, Pillar X-tra aero spokes, alloy nipples, XD (1300g)
    Tires: Maxxis Ikon 29x2.25 3C/EXO skinwall (1370g)
    Tubeless Setup: Sealant, black Presta Valves, Tesa tape (100g)
    Bottle Cages: Carbon 16g (32g)
    GPS: Garmin 250 w/ mount (100g)

    Total predicted weight: 9.50 kg / 20.9 lbs

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by sissypants View Post
    Tubeless setup required an air compressor due to hookless sidewalls.

    What does this mean, specifically?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    What does this mean, specifically?
    The rims aren't hooked, they are hookless, so there is nothing to engage with the bead until there is enough pressure or sealant to keep them in place. A bike pump doesn't pump air into a tire fast enough to set the bead on a hookless rim. It takes an air compressor.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by sissypants View Post
    The rims aren't hooked, they are hookless, so there is nothing to engage with the bead until there is enough pressure or sealant to keep them in place. A bike pump doesn't pump air into a tire fast enough to set the bead on a hookless rim. It takes an air compressor.
    UUUhhh. Sorry to say but this is not how it works. The seal is between the bead of the tire and the flat part of the rim. Rims have a valley for mounting and this the area that doesn't seal the bead. You need to force the bead out of this valley and up over the bead retention ridges(if it's a tubeless rim). Hook or hookless doesn't have any effect on initial seating of a tire.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    UUUhhh. Sorry to say but this is not how it works. The seal is between the bead of the tire and the flat part of the rim. Rims have a valley for mounting and this the area that doesn't seal the bead. You need to force the bead out of this valley and up over the bead retention ridges(if it's a tubeless rim). Hook or hookless doesn't have any effect on initial seating of a tire.
    Ah, sorry for my misunderstanding! So it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sissypants View Post
    The rims aren't hooked, they are hookless, so there is nothing to engage with the bead until there is enough pressure or sealant to keep them in place. A bike pump doesn't pump air into a tire fast enough to set the bead on a hookless rim. It takes an air compressor.

    You're fundamentally misunderstanding the way this works. Hooked vs. hookless has nothing to do with it. I build a few hundred hookless rims into wheels every year, and almost all of them allow easy inflation/bead seating with a floor pump.

    The overall diameter of the rim and the shape of the rim bed, as well as the size, shape, and dimensions of the tire bead dictate whether they'll inflate with a floor pump.

  14. #14
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    Always wondered what rear shock tune would work with these Chinese frames. Been happy with my 057 29er HT 19" for a winter gravel type MTB. I could take the 057 parts and put on a non-boost 29er frame. Gotta take a look at the geometry. Thanks for the good report!

  15. #15
    LDC is ded,deth by trollz
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    guy builds a bike and posts a review, guys come on to nitpick stupid things trying to make themselves sound all high and mighty.

    Thanks for taking time to make this post despite some "people" making useless off topic posts to try and derail the thread.

    What bolts did you end up needing/getting from the Hardware store? Thank you
    Ill be out riding, youll still be trolling mtbr. Mtbr, where people who dont ride come to pretend they do.

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    What would you say your total investment is?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    guy builds a bike and posts a review, guys come on to nitpick stupid things trying to make themselves sound all high and mighty.

    Thanks for taking time to make this post despite some "people" making useless off topic posts to try and derail the thread.

    What bolts did you end up needing/getting from the Hardware store? Thank you

    Based on what you've written here, as well as the "reason" that you gave when you neg repped me just now, I can only assume you're 10 years old. Best of luck in your teens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDee View Post
    Pretty hard for me to believe that bike is 21 pounds. How good is that scale you used?
    Why?

    I have many parts that are slightly heavier and my bike is just under 23lbs. Perfectly reasonable weight, for the components and frame he has.
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    Quote Originally Posted by firebike7 View Post
    What would you say your total investment is?
    It was very economical. Definitely much cheaper than a name-brand equivalent.
    Last edited by sissypants; 05-04-2018 at 05:07 AM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    guy builds a bike and posts a review, guys come on to nitpick stupid things trying to make themselves sound all high and mighty.

    Thanks for taking time to make this post despite some "people" making useless off topic posts to try and derail the thread.

    What bolts did you end up needing/getting from the Hardware store? Thank you
    its a bike review, not a bike critique
    Why would pointing out something on a bike deserve a negative rep? Yesterday my buddy had new brakes put on. They were level I asked if thats how he liked them? He said no and we moved them.
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

  21. #21
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    Great looking build. Thinking about getting one of these frames and moving what I can over from my HT.

    I run my levers close to the grip too. I've got smallish hands and grip the end of the bar.

  22. #22
    LDC is ded,deth by trollz
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    You guys dont get it do you? Nobody cares about brake lever position or hooked vs hookless beads in a bike review. They could care less how he positions his levers, how many wheels youve built or how hooked vs hookless beads work in this thread yet you guys had to go out of your way to assert your "authority" on those subjects. Clearly you got my message now move on.
    Ill be out riding, youll still be trolling mtbr. Mtbr, where people who dont ride come to pretend they do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by winters.benjamin View Post
    Can you show a close-up of rear tire clearance? Awesome build.
    I completely take back my initial impressions on tire clearance, there is a bit of space in there. These are Maxxis Ikon 29x2.25 set up tubeless on 24mm-wide rims.

    Chainstay clearance
    21lb FS 29er build (Pro-Mance M9007)-chainstay-clearance-ss.jpg

    Seatstay clearance
    21lb FS 29er build (Pro-Mance M9007)-seatstay-clearance.jpg

  24. #24
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    Amazing build! Not the bike I want but that's what's awesome about cycling -- we each get to build the machine we personally like best. You got yours -- nicely done.

    I could throw my frame & shock away and what's left over would still weigh more than your bike. Crazy!

    Do I see Phillips head hardware holding your shock in place? Not a knock, just curious.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    You guys dont get it do you? Nobody cares about brake lever position or hooked vs hookless beads in a bike review. They could care less how he positions his levers, how many wheels youve built or how hooked vs hookless beads work in this thread yet you guys had to go out of your way to assert your "authority" on those subjects. Clearly you got my message now move on.

    Nobody in this thread was asking for your uninformed editorial, either. Yet here it is. Perhaps you should move on?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDee View Post
    Pretty hard for me to believe that bike is 21 pounds. How good is that scale you used?
    On the money...

    21lb FS 29er build (Pro-Mance M9007)-weight-whole-bike-ss.jpg

    21lb FS 29er build (Pro-Mance M9007)-weight-scale-ss.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus View Post
    Do I see Phillips head hardware holding your shock in place?
    Yep you do. The Phillips bolt and hex nut is a temporary solution until I can find a solution for the long-term. The hardware provided with the frame wasn't compatible with the Fox Shock mounting kit, or any other shock spacers that I'm aware of (Rockshox Monarch)

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    super lite. I would route the brake line on the inside of your fork to better protect it.
    Suck it LaneDetroitCity
    Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just...harder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    You guys dont get it do you? Nobody cares about brake lever position or hooked vs hookless beads in a bike review. They could care less how he positions his levers, how many wheels youve built or how hooked vs hookless beads work in this thread yet you guys had to go out of your way to assert your "authority" on those subjects. Clearly you got my message now move on.
    On second thought,
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    Quote Originally Posted by sissypants View Post
    I completely take back my initial impressions on tire clearance, there is a bit of space in there. These are Maxxis Ikon 29x2.25 set up tubeless on 24mm-wide rims.

    Chainstay clearance
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Seatstay clearance
    Click image for larger version. 

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    This is fantastic.

    If I send you some cash (I'm being serious here) would you pick up a 29x2.35 Forekaster and throw it on the back then take a pic? I can do PayPal or ACH or whatever you like.

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    Congrats on the bike, glad you like it and hit your budget, but, I'd like to see some actual riding video of you "smashing" that through some of this chunk you say you ride it through and update this thread on how that frame holds up the first time you eat it properly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Congrats on the bike, glad you like it and hit your budget, but, I'd like to see some actual riding video of you "smashing" that through some of this chunk you say you ride it through and update this thread on how that frame holds up the first time you eat it properly.
    LOL he said shredding gnar in Michigan....
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Congrats on the bike, glad you like it and hit your budget, but, I'd like to see some actual riding video of you "smashing" that through some of this chunk you say you ride it through and update this thread on how that frame holds up the first time you eat it properly.
    Fair, I might put together a video review sooner or later. I'll post up in a week or two when I get around to that.

    I wonder if irishpitbull has ever ridden in Michigan?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sissypants View Post
    Fair, I might put together a video review sooner or later. I'll post up in a week or two when I get around to that.

    I wonder if irishpitbull has ever ridden in Michigan?
    I live there. Please point me in the direction of the Michigan gnar...
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    Quote Originally Posted by irishpitbull View Post
    I live there. Please point me in the direction of the Michigan gnar...
    Go ride Copper Harbor, Marquette, Ishpeming, sections of the North Country Trail, and the High Country Pathway IMBA Epic. I live in Grand Rapids where the Michigan gnar is far and few between, but Sawtooth (Merrell Trail), Owasippe (black diamond loop), and Yankee Springs (devil's soup bowl) fit the bill.

    Dwarfed, of course, by the Rockies.

    "Michigan Gnar" at Copper Harbor (Trailforks photo)
    21lb FS 29er build (Pro-Mance M9007)-p5pb8223077.jpg

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    Suck it LaneDetroitCity
    Concise & well stated. He/she/it neg-repped me too, though I can't exactly blame him/her/it for that. I admit my pre-edited comment suggesting he/she/it promptly die in a fire went a little over the top.
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    P.S. Apologies to sissypants for mucking up this thread. Carry on...
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  37. #37
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    Well, I have no clue, unless maybe you name a trail that I might have seen a video of. I always thought most east coast US trails where rocky and tech, but after riding with a few people from there and talking to them, it seems to be very region specific to get the real gnar and chunk.

    Quote Originally Posted by irishpitbull View Post
    LOL he said shredding gnar in Michigan....

    Quote Originally Posted by sissypants View Post
    Fair, I might put together a video review sooner or later. I'll post up in a week or two when I get around to that.

    I wonder if irishpitbull has ever ridden in Michigan?
    Quote Originally Posted by irishpitbull View Post
    I live there. Please point me in the direction of the Michigan gnar...
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    You're doing mtbr wrong, you're supposed to get increasingly offended by the implications that you're doing ANYTHING wrong.

  38. #38
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    WOW, now that's my kind of trail

    Quote Originally Posted by sissypants View Post
    "Michigan Gnar" at Copper Harbor (Trailforks photo)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    You're doing mtbr wrong, you're supposed to get increasingly offended by the implications that you're doing ANYTHING wrong.

  39. #39
    LDC is ded,deth by trollz
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    I emailed the company. $658 for the light version, $595 for normal. 1785g ,1860g thats 17.5" frames.
    Ill be out riding, youll still be trolling mtbr. Mtbr, where people who dont ride come to pretend they do.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    I emailed the company. $658 for the light version, $595 for normal. 1785g ,1860g thats 17.5" frames.
    And $80 for EMS shipping to USA (took 12 days total for me), ~$70+ for painting.

  41. #41
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    Did someone ask mikesee how many wheels he’s built?

    Nice build!

  42. #42
    LDC is ded,deth by trollz
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    Quote Originally Posted by sissypants View Post
    And $80 for EMS shipping to USA (took 12 days total for me), ~$70+ for painting.
    Thank you.

    What bolts did you get from the hardware store to mount that shock? Thanks
    Ill be out riding, youll still be trolling mtbr. Mtbr, where people who dont ride come to pretend they do.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    I emailed the company. $658 for the light version, $595 for normal. 1785g ,1860g thats 17.5" frames.
    Ah, I get it now. You're short.
    =s
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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    Thank you.

    What bolts did you get from the hardware store to mount that shock? Thanks
    M6 diameter, I believe. Could be wrong, M5 or M6, 1.25" is long enough. The diameter fit snugly in the Fox barrel spacer from the kit sold online.

    I should add you need to get TWO fox spacer kits (yes, $30) because they only sell one barrel and two spacers per kit. You will be able to use the two Fox kits to space the shock perfectly in the frame, you'll only need to improvise on the thru-bolts.

  45. #45
    LDC is ded,deth by trollz
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    Quote Originally Posted by sissypants View Post
    M6 diameter, I believe. Could be wrong, M5 or M6, 1.25" is long enough. The diameter fit snugly in the Fox barrel spacer from the kit sold online.

    I should add you need to get TWO fox spacer kits (yes, $30) because they only sell one barrel and two spacers per kit. You will be able to use the two Fox kits to space the shock perfectly in the frame, you'll only need to improvise on the thru-bolts.
    Thank you for the nice review and the detailed information. Its 1/3 the cost of a name brand with those same parts. Im hoping the long term durability holds up, thats why they have a warranty though!
    Ill be out riding, youll still be trolling mtbr. Mtbr, where people who dont ride come to pretend they do.

  46. #46
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    Great review and build. Thanks for all the time and effort. Kudos for providing very even handed responses to a few snarky questions that bordered on disbelief.
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  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    Thank you for the nice review and the detailed information. Its 1/3 the cost of a name brand with those same parts. Im hoping the long term durability holds up, thats why they have a warranty though!
    2-year warranty isn't bad, and these agents are true to their word. For example, I cracked an ICAN chainstay while riding in excessively tough terrain. ICAN promptly shipped two chainstays with hardware by DHL express, painted to match the color I previously ordered--for free!

  48. #48
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    Really nice! Which saddle is that exactly? looks promising.

  49. #49
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    These look to be the same frame?

    https://www.instagram.com/megamo_bicycles/

    Guy competed the Cape Epic on one,

    https://www.instagram.com/martinfanger/?hl=en

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by sissypants View Post
    Go ride Copper Harbor, Marquette, Ishpeming, sections of the North Country Trail, and the High Country Pathway IMBA Epic. I live in Grand Rapids where the Michigan gnar is far and few between, but Sawtooth (Merrell Trail), Owasippe (black diamond loop), and Yankee Springs (devil's soup bowl) fit the bill.

    Dwarfed, of course, by the Rockies.
    Sorry to yet again derail the thread but is the North Country Trail open to bikes in MI? Around here (Western PA) it's foot travel only.
    No moss...

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastezzie View Post
    Really nice! Which saddle is that exactly? looks promising.
    $29 134g carbon shell saddle with microfiber cover and hard foam padding from Aliexpress. Comes in gloss and matte, for some reason my gloss saddles are 15g lighter than matte saddles.

    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/MTB-...766321631.html

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS VR6 View Post
    These look to be the same frame?

    https://www.instagram.com/megamo_bicycles/

    Guy competed the Cape Epic on one,

    https://www.instagram.com/martinfanger/?hl=en
    Good eyes! That definitely looks like retail arbitrage. It's one way small companies can avoid up-front costs associated with opening molds and mass manufacturing.

    I can't find it on their website though, so where is this at? Technically I think there are licensing issues that I hope they sorted out if they actually are selling this.

  53. #53
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    Looks like the Hongfu Spark model in boost is now available. Very close geo to RC 900. 1950g. $806 shipped.

    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2018...854379761.html

    21lb FS 29er build (Pro-Mance M9007)-screen-shot-2018-05-02-7.14.25-pm.jpg
    Never underestimate an old man with a mountain bike.

  54. #54
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    Dude... kudos on the build and congrats ! Impressive to see that bike coming in @ 21lbs
    Appreciate the post.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by sissypants View Post
    Good eyes! That definitely looks like retail arbitrage. It's one way small companies can avoid up-front costs associated with opening molds and mass manufacturing.

    I can't find it on their website though, so where is this at? Technically I think there are licensing issues that I hope they sorted out if they actually are selling this.
    Here,

    https://www.megamo.com/en/113/cycles/mountain.html

    Looks like the same frame.

  56. #56
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    Nice ride.
    Those pan head machine screws caught my eye, but do what you gotta, right?
    You'd be surprised how much paint weighs.
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  57. #57
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    OP:

    Thought these might be of interest. Add a Ti bolt and you’re set.

    https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F192327778035


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  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Thought these might be of interest. Add a Ti bolt and you’re set.

    https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F192327778035
    Thanks, those bolts are awesome!

    Turns out I ordered the wrong size shock kit. Just yesterday I got it to work and figured out my mistake.

    To fit a Fox shock in the M9007 frame, just order TWO Fox 5-piece Mounting Hardware Kits (8mm x 21.8mm) from Worldwide Cyclery. You won't need anything else.

    https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/pro...ece-aluminum-2
    Last edited by sissypants; 09-26-2018 at 11:22 AM.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    I emailed the company. $658 for the light version, $595 for normal. 1785g ,1860g thats 17.5" frames.
    Excellent prices. My 19" is out of stock 40 days.
    Or pay more for https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2018...ceBeautifyAB=0

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by westin View Post
    Excellent prices. My 19" is out of stock 40 days.
    Or pay more for https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2018...ceBeautifyAB=0
    No guarantees the Aliexpress frame will ship in 40 days either. Sellers have all kinds of strategies for getting around processing time restrictions.

    40 days isn't actually that bad. I waited for more like 80.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    A will have to do.


    You going to Nats in July by chance? I'm in setting goals mode after clinching the State Championship series last weekend.
    Won't be there. I departed the racing scene after completing my final Cascade Cream Puff in 2011 at age 58. I only ever really enjoyed doing endurance events but OMG that brutal thing stopped being fun after age 55! I just ride for fun these days. Fortunately retirement affords plenty of time for fun.

    Best of luck achieving your cycling goals this year. Better watch out for sissypants if he shows up with his nearly weightless whip!
    =sParty
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  62. #62
    LDC is ded,deth by trollz
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    How much useless off topic drivel are you guys going to post on this mans bike build and review? Some of us are trying to actually gain some knowledge and information on this thread.
    Ill be out riding, youll still be trolling mtbr. Mtbr, where people who dont ride come to pretend they do.

  63. #63
    LDC is ded,deth by trollz
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    Quote Originally Posted by westin View Post
    Excellent prices. My 19" is out of stock 40 days.
    Or pay more for https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2018...ceBeautifyAB=0
    Im also a 19/21 are you saying you asked this Pro Mance company specifically and they said 40 days? Thank you
    Ill be out riding, youll still be trolling mtbr. Mtbr, where people who dont ride come to pretend they do.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by sissypants View Post
    Thanks, those bolts are awesome! A steel version of these bolts was provided with the frame, but now I can get the diameter for my shock kit.

    Turns out I ordered the wrong size shock kit. Just yesterday I got it to work and figured out my mistake.

    To fit a Fox shock in the M9007 frame, just order TWO Fox 5-piece Mounting Hardware Kits (8mm x 21.8mm) from Worldwide Cyclery. You won't need anything else.

    https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/pro...ece-aluminum-2
    Sissypants, on my chiners I use the http://www.enduroforkseals.com/id275.html NBKRWC2220
    This fits the Monarch Eyelet and replaces the bushing into a needle bearing and reduces friction.

    Here a drawing of the monarch shock.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by charlesrg View Post
    Sissypants, on my chiners I use the RWC SHOCK EYE NEEDLE BEARING KITS, 6MM & 8MM NBKRWC2220
    This fits the Monarch Eyelet and replaces the bushing into a needle bearing and reduces friction.

    Here a drawing of the monarch shock.
    Those kits are very nice! At a tad over the price of 2 Fox hardware kits I would definitely go for RWC hardware next time. Thanks!

  66. #66
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    At 6’2” the 19” frame size is working well for me, although I might go for a 21” if it becomes an option.

    .
    I put off a purchase of the Hongfu version because I felt like I was forcing the 19” frame because it was a good deal.

    What length stem are you using? Have you experimented with different lengths? I currently ride a 20” Chiner and my seat is slammed back and my stem is 110mm. My seat position is less than ideal as it puts my knee too far behind the pedal axle.

    I’m 6’2”.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus View Post
    Meanwhile back on topic: your bike build is truly amazing. I've never ridden a bike close to the weightlessness of yours; can't even imagine what that must feel like. I have, however, broken the frame of a bike that weighed 5# more. {gasp} May you never experience such disappointment.
    =sParty
    Quote Originally Posted by Adroit Rider View Post
    I put off a purchase of the Hongfu version because I felt like I was forcing the 19” frame because it was a good deal.

    What length stem are you using? Have you experimented with different lengths? I currently ride a 20” Chiner and my seat is slammed back and my stem is 110mm. My seat position is less than ideal as it puts my knee too far behind the pedal axle.

    I’m 6’2”.
    I'm only on a 60mm stem, and I'm 6'2" as well. I also have my seat as far back as possible. It's not where I like it right now. I have a bit of stem length experimenting to do. I think a longer stem length with more negative rise will get me happy with the fit.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by sissypants View Post
    I'm only on a 60mm stem, and I'm 6'2" as well. I also have my seat as far back as possible. It's not where I like it right now. I have a bit of stem length experimenting to do. I think a longer stem length with more negative rise will get me happy with the fit.
    I’m running a 660mm bar and I see you are at 720. Maybe that is the geo fix with this 19” frame. 90mm stem w a 720mm bar.

    I recently had a bike fit and the slammed saddled is less than optimal for sure. One knee/hip is sore on 2+ hour rides. Went away after the fit with proper knee/cleat alignment.

  69. #69
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    Excellent review. Detailed, concise, lots of useful information.

    How's the stiffness of the linkage? I found this to be a significant weak point with my CS-036 frame.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adroit Rider View Post
    I put off a purchase of the Hongfu version because I felt like I was forcing the 19” frame because it was a good deal.
    I’m 6’2”.
    I'm 6'3" and have been on 21" 036, 057 and M06. To help on the fit I drew the frame on BikeCad and then put my dimensions on top.
    Have a look here.

    I'm adding info to the wiki database with fit so it's easier to browse and find an ideal frame. If you want to check: here

  71. #71
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    Regardless of how you feel about another person on this site, lowering your standard to start calling people names is not allowed. Please stop doing that.

    If you have a comment about this build, please post it here.

    If you want to talk about trails or anything else not related to this build go find another thread or start your own thread.

    If you have a problem with the direction this thread is taking please report the posts, do not try and police the thread yourself.

    Thanks.
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  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by sissypants View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    In your research, what was your take on the position of the rear brake mount. There are other models that have the mount lower on the chain stay. Do you think this makes a difference?
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  73. #73
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    nice
    2015 Pivot Mach 429 Carbon
    2008 Specialized Roubaix Expert

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexdi View Post
    Excellent review. Detailed, concise, lots of useful information.

    How's the stiffness of the linkage? I found this to be a significant weak point with my CS-036 frame.
    The carbon fiber linkage is secured to the frame parts with alloy bolts that, when properly fastened, leave no play, squeaking, or creaking that plagues other Chinese frames I've ridden. No side-to-side torquing, noticeable flex, it's great! I don't know how much lateral stiffness will deteriorate with wear, but I don't have reason to anticipate issues.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adroit Rider View Post
    In your research, what was your take on the position of the rear brake mount. There are other models that have the mount lower on the chain stay. Do you think this makes a difference?
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    It would only make a difference to me if I looked backwards while riding and got annoyed seeing my brake on the chainstay. Power is fine, it doesn't affect suspension feel as far as I can tell, the cable is secured very well by the routing port so even if the linkage moved radically there wouldn't be issues with noisy cables. I personally wouldn't worry about it. There seem to be some people that care, though, not sure why. I can see why it would be a good thing to have it further off the ground and away from debris.

    I'd bet you can coordinate with Al to get it made how you like -- boost or non-boost with the brake mounted on the chainstay. It doesn't have to be model-specific.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by charlesrg View Post
    I'm 6'3" and have been on 21" 036, 057 and M06. To help on the fit I drew the frame on BikeCad and then put my dimensions on top.
    Have a look here.

    I'm adding info to the wiki database with fit so it's easier to browse and find an ideal frame. If you want to check: here
    I like the idea and the website is great, but I'd keep in mind your style will also impact your fit. My rides are race-pace, so I need a longer reach and low position. I really need a longer stem, but I don't like the slow-steer feel of long stems. And yes, the wider bars are a huge help--I'm always grasping at the ends.

    Watch the guys on the XCO circuit and observe how they are positioned on their bikes--low and slack, with seemingly oversized frames, medium-length stems, and forward-mounted saddles for optimal leverage.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaneDetroitCity View Post
    I emailed the company. $658 for the light version, $595 for normal. 1785g ,1860g thats 17.5" frames.
    That's damn light. Are you gonna splurge for the lighter layup?

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by sissypants View Post
    I like the idea and the website is great, but I'd keep in mind your style will also impact your fit. My rides are race-pace, so I need a longer reach and low position. I really need a longer stem, but I don't like the slow-steer feel of long stems. And yes, the wider bars are a huge help--I'm always grasping at the ends.

    Watch the guys on the XCO circuit and observe how they are positioned on their bikes--low and slack, with seemingly oversized frames, medium-length stems, and forward-mounted saddles for optimal leverage.
    We are not that different, I'm Cat2 racer here. Just got 2nd on Iron Furnace last weekend. I also demand an aggressive position. I've a 70mm stem on my M06. I just commented the bikecad for people who are doing their first build and want to compare with their current bikes.

  79. #79
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    Sissypants,

    Looking on pro-Mance site I dont see a M7009 frame. I see two versions of the M7007 frame. One is the one that will also run oversized 27.5 and then there appears to be a M7007II frame that is straight up 29er. If you picked one of these can you talk about why?

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by artsn View Post
    Sissypants,

    Looking on pro-Mance site I dont see a M7009 frame. I see two versions of the M7007 frame. One is the one that will also run oversized 27.5 and then there appears to be a M7007II frame that is straight up 29er. If you picked one of these can you talk about why?
    I agree that the model numbers are confusing. I bought the M9007 frame, I believe, although in the end my agreement with the agent was for an ultralight boost 29er frame which he referred to as an "M9007 with special boost modification". I wanted a frame that would run 27.5+ tires in the winter and 29 tires in the summer.

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by winters.benjamin View Post
    This is fantastic.
    I picked up a Maxxis Forekaster 29x2.35 (thank you Ben!) and threw it on my 24mm wide carbon rim on the rear wheel. Setup was a breeze, required just the hands, some Stans, and a handheld pump. I'll set aside the technical details about how tire beads set upon inflation as there are apparently strong opinions on this topic. The tire was not as wide as anticipated. It measured almost exactly the same width as my Maxxis Ikons (~2.10", advertised at 2.25"). However, the slightly bigger knobbies still decreased clearance by a few millimeters.

    But there is still PLENTY of clearance. I'm almost certain that a 29x2.4" Ardent would fit no problem. Not so sure about 29x2.6" though. I look forward to seeing what 27.5+ tires will fit this winter.

    Chainstay Clearance (90mm between outer nobbies and narrowest point)
    21lb FS 29er build (Pro-Mance M9007)-imgonline-com-ua-compresstosize-pirjakpwpjnv5.jpg


    Another view of Chainstay clearance
    21lb FS 29er build (Pro-Mance M9007)-imgonline-com-ua-compresstosize-e8gtbvkpvsu.jpg


    Seatstay Clearance (not the limiting factor)
    21lb FS 29er build (Pro-Mance M9007)-imgonline-com-ua-compresstosize-1rzvo0tj9an5s.jpg


    I did take the Ikons for a ride tonight before setting up the Forekaster. The trail was moist and the leaves were raked from the trails, riding was really awesome. I had great traction and could attack the corners. This is in sharp contrast to the dusty and leafy conditions which were very disappointing on the Ikons. The Forekaster should make for a better all-around tire.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 21lb FS 29er build (Pro-Mance M9007)-imgonline-com-ua-compresstosize-qmy8joipxfw.jpg  


  82. #82
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    I would like more information on the wheel set. Hard to see how they could be 1300g with DT350s.

    Great looking build!
    Ridley CX, Stumpjumper Carbon HT, Surly Wednesday

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chad_M View Post
    I would like more information on the wheel set. Hard to see how they could be 1300g with DT350s.
    Well, it's pretty reasonable. The rims are approximately 310g each, DT 350s are about 80g heavier than DT240s, so it's not a huge difference, Pillar X-tra aero spokes are quite light per piece as well. I put the wheelset on my gram scale and it weighed in at 1280g as I remember.

    This is what I ordered: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1280...837989272.html

    I will do a long-term review at the end of the season. So far they do the job without getting noticed! Tire setup was easy and the bang-for-buck is awesome so far.

  84. #84
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    FS 20.5lb Pro-Mance 29er now for sale

    I broke a couple ribs over the weekend while shredding a local trail, I can't get myself to go slow on this thing. It's enough that my wife convinced me to sell this and try out gravel. I'll be out of commission for a month or two anyways so for those who are interested, it is up for sale--for less than the sum of the parts. I don't mean to advertise here, but there are several thread subscribers who may appreciate the heads up. I'm sorry to see it go, but I think it's best for my family and me.

    20.5lb FS All-Carbon Scott Spark-geo Chiner, Fox Factory build - MTBR Classifieds

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    Quote Originally Posted by sissypants View Post
    I broke a couple ribs over the weekend while shredding a local trail, I can't get myself to go slow on this thing. It's enough that my wife convinced me to sell this and try out gravel. I'll be out of commission for a month or two anyways so for those who are interested, it is up for sale--for less than the sum of the parts. I don't mean to advertise here, but there are several thread subscribers who may appreciate the heads up. I'm sorry to see it go, but I think it's best for my family and me.

    20.5lb FS All-Carbon Scott Spark-geo Chiner, Fox Factory build - MTBR Classifieds
    Sorry to hear about your injury. You built a great bike, get back in shape, do some core strengh workouts and then hit the same trial and find out what went wrong.

    I had many falls when I was beggining with mountain bikes, later I went back to the same places did the turns faster than before and didn't crash. It was just lack of practice.

    Don't let your single injury rule out MTB, exercise your core so you are less prone to injuries and get back to riding.

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    There is no way I'm going to support someone ripping off frame designs. The cockpit and other things that are pretty much a set standard, sure.

  87. #87
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    21lb FS 29er build (Pro-Mance M9007)

    Quote Originally Posted by party_wagon View Post
    There is no way I'm going to support someone ripping off frame designs. The cockpit and other things that are pretty much a set standard, sure.
    It has similar-ish geometry. And a rear linkage design used by what must be a dozen companies. Many of which came before Scott.

    Hardly intellectual property theft.


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  88. #88
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    Companies like Scott are actually going to come up with new ideas and bring them to market such as slack new XC bike geometries that handle trail riding much better than traditional XC bikes. Some of the newer companies such as Jamis(650 dragon) and Niner(29er) went out and built off of a completely new idea. They didn't copy the geometry of a bike that the worlds best XC rider rides while undercutting their price point because they didn't have to spend 3 million a year on WC riders, mechanics, design engineers, Fab technicians, and the whole nine yards to develop the bike.

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by party_wagon View Post
    Companies like Scott are actually going to come up with new ideas and bring them to market such as slack new XC bike geometries that handle trail riding much better than traditional XC bikes. Some of the newer companies such as Jamis(650 dragon) and Niner(29er) went out and built off of a completely new idea. They didn't copy the geometry of a bike that the worlds best XC rider rides while undercutting their price point because they didn't have to spend 3 million a year on WC riders, mechanics, design engineers, Fab technicians, and the whole nine yards to develop the bike.
    Thanks for contributing to this thread, party_wagon

    This frame is not a Scott Spark, and it is 20% of the price of a Scott Spark RC frame. Fake R&D and horrible customer service need to stop. I can't even get a Spark where I live--they are always out of stock. One customer from my LBS broke his Spark and hasn't got a replacement for months now! It was also frustrating to learn that Scott outsources some of their R&D... to China.

    I like Scott, I like the Spark, I like Nino Schurter, and I hope he isn't doping, but I want good customer service and reasonable prices.

    So if the Chinese are willing to offer an alternative frame for well under half of the price (after adding in the shock) and back it up with amazing customer service and warranty, please permit a new business model where the innovation is in the service and not only the product.

  90. #90
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    If I was copying bikes I would copy the 120/120 fuel ex for endurance racing or a good do it all XC bike, and XS,S,M Spark/Scale 700 for women and child xc which are all discontinued. If your going to move into the flagship line of the companies they will quit investing as much into new technologies and keep changing standards every 2 years.

  91. #91
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    Just noticed that this frame is still being raced at the world class level. Here's Jofre Culell Etape racing it to 2nd place in the U23 Men's XCO race at La Bresse yesterday.

    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/photo-...-cup-2018.html

    21lb FS 29er build (Pro-Mance M9007)-p6pb16275816.jpg

    Notice the "prototype" wheels

    This is in addition to the rebranded Megamo builds raced at the Cape Epic earlier.

  92. #92
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    sick pic

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by slimphatty View Post
    sick pic
    Btw just wanted to indicate I sold my frame to a guy who built up a dream rig of his own Thanks to all who reached out to me.

    Meanwhile I've adventured into gravel, but found it wasn't my true love.

    Sales have apparently been very strong on this frame, I got thank you notes from several agents and quite a few PMs.

    I'm once again going to be pushing the limits of weight and performance on a 29er hardtail using the TanTan FM-299B frame, a unique frame which fits 29+ tires with very Scale-esque geometry (except 15mm longer chainstays). Build story to come in the next few months in the plus bike and weight weenies forums, both a 27.5+ winter build and a 29er XC race build. I have my eye on 17.0 pounds.
    Follow me on Strava, Instagram @therealsissypants, and Facebook

  94. #94
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    Can't wait to see the new ride.

  95. #95
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    Pinkbike just featured this frame on their homepage. They even gave Pro-Mance a compliment

    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/5-surp...show-2018.html

    The fact that media will recognize products beyond those sponsored by North American marketing tycoons, in my mind, indicates huge progression within the industry.
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  96. #96
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    After a few months of paralysis of analysis, I pulled the trigger on the superlight promace frame. Gonna mount my lefty to it and see what happens. 40 day lead time...
    Small ring in front makes it easier. Small ring in back makes it harder. That blows my mind.

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lenny7 View Post
    After a few months of paralysis of analysis, I pulled the trigger on the superlight promace frame. Gonna mount my lefty to it and see what happens. 40 day lead time...
    Will be interesting to see how your lefty works with the frame. Is it the double-crown version or the Ocho?

    Post up when you finish the build!

  98. #98
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    Double crown. Ocho would be nice tho.
    Small ring in front makes it easier. Small ring in back makes it harder. That blows my mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lenny7 View Post
    Double crown. Ocho would be nice tho.
    Uh, nice for the ride. Not so nice for the wallet.

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by winters.benjamin View Post
    Uh, nice for the ride. Not so nice for the wallet.
    Indeed. Are they even selling them individually yet?
    Small ring in front makes it easier. Small ring in back makes it harder. That blows my mind.

  101. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by sissypants View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I can't seem to find anywhere on the pro mance site, is the geometry chart based off a 100mm fork?
    Small ring in front makes it easier. Small ring in back makes it harder. That blows my mind.

  102. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lenny7 View Post
    I can't seem to find anywhere on the pro mance site, is the geometry chart based off a 100mm fork?
    Yes.

  103. #103
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    Sissy, what seatpost is that?
    Small ring in front makes it easier. Small ring in back makes it harder. That blows my mind.

  104. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lenny7 View Post
    Sissy, what seatpost is that?
    This one:

    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2017...823444196.html

    I'm now using this one:

    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Road...822592827.html

    Both are flawless.

  105. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by sissypants View Post
    Does the clamp on that second one get along with the carbon rails? If you are still using that carbon saddle.
    Small ring in front makes it easier. Small ring in back makes it harder. That blows my mind.

  106. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lenny7 View Post
    Does the clamp on that second one get along with the carbon rails? If you are still using that carbon saddle.
    Yes, I'm still using the same saddle and that second seatpost clamp mechanism does work with oval carbon rails just fine.

    It's definitely not what anyone would recommend, but it works perfectly for me and it's crazy lightweight.

  107. #107
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    This is the 2019 BMC Fourstroke, presented to the world in September 2018. So just a couple of months ago. Great and very clean looking bike imo.

    https://www.bmc-switzerland.com/us-e...stroke-01-one/

    Anyways, according to BMC and various media, the newest Fourstroke is a new breed XC racer 'born to surpass the latest demands of the world's top XC athletes'.

    Irony and funny at the same time. Because although different in detail, in essence, this newest BMC Fourstroke is very similar in terms of geometry and design to the Pro-Mance M7007. And how long does Pro-Mance produce the M7007 already...? Right, for nearly a year or so.

    Again proof that the Chinese bike industry is quite progressive in the field of geometry and certainly should not be underestimated. Tumbs up!

    Nice tires on the Fourstroke though. If I had known that a bit earlier...
    Love my own Pro-Mance though.

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  108. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry77 View Post
    Nice tires on the Fourstroke though. If I had known that a bit earlier...
    Love my own Pro-Mance though.

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    That's a really nice colorway and build! Is that more than 100mm travel up front?

    Speaking of progression in the bike industry at the factories themselves, take a look at this new frame:

    21lb FS 29er build (Pro-Mance M9007)-highlight-1.jpg
    130mm travel, split seat tube to hide shock linkage. QTOUR factory in Jiangsu. It's out for OEM sales now, but I'll bet you could pick something up by emailing QTOUR direct. Quite the looker and really well designed.

    I'm very curious, does anyone know how many big-brand designers actually work at the factories themselves or how many big brands subcontract the factory for design?

  109. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by sissypants View Post
    That's a really nice colorway and build! Is that more than 100mm travel up front?

    Speaking of progression in the bike industry at the factories themselves, take a look at this new frame:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    130mm travel, split seat tube to hide shock linkage. QTOUR factory in Jiangsu. It's out for OEM sales now, but I'll bet you could pick something up by emailing QTOUR direct. Quite the looker and really well designed.

    I'm very curious, does anyone know how many big-brand designers actually work at the factories themselves or how many big brands subcontract the factory for design?
    Thanks for the compliments, Sissypants.

    And yep, I have mounted a fork with 120mm of travel. As well as a dropper seat post. This gives the bike a 1 degree slacker head angle (68 degrees) and a more trail friendly character. I take the weight penalty (400 grams in total) for granted.
    I even think about fitting a 120mm RS Pike (stiffer, more advanced fork) to create an ultimate compromise between an fast XC and playful trail animal.


    About the proposed QTOUR frame. I have seen it before at Pinkbike. This will also be an 'open mold' design, I think, since Agogo also offers the same frame. Looks promising.

    The listed specs are somewhat vague and unclear though. Pinkbike mentions that this frame is designed for a 100m fork, QTOUR says 130mm.
    Noteworthy is also the immense reach (size XL) or 500mm, but a relatively low stack of 593mm.
    Also a seat angle of 70 degrees seems strange, just like the specified shock hardware of (only) 165mm. So it is a XC bike or trail bike frame? It looks badass though.

    If someone already has real world experience with this M06 frame, please post your experiences. I am very intrigued.

  110. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry77 View Post
    The listed specs are somewhat vague and unclear though. Pinkbike mentions that this frame is designed for a 100m fork, QTOUR says 130mm.
    Noteworthy is also the immense reach (size XL) or 500mm, but a relatively low stack of 593mm.
    Also a seat angle of 70 degrees seems strange, just like the specified shock hardware of (only) 165mm. So it is a XC bike or trail bike frame? It looks badass though.

    If someone already has real world experience with this M06 frame, please post your experiences. I am very intrigued.
    It's not an XC bike, it's a Trail bike. PB had travel wrong. It's designed around 130mm front and rear. To keep this thread on topic, I started a new thread here:

    https://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/q...l#post13890573

    I too am very intrigued.

  111. #111
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    Isn’t that the frame that PB said has no hardware where the main pivot would be?

    Like, it’s literally not rideable, as displayed?


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  112. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Isn’t that the frame that PB said has no hardware where the main pivot would be?

    Like, it’s literally not rideable, as displayed?


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    No, that was the VPP3 from Pro-Mance they were referring to, and they stood corrected in the comments section. The frame is totally rideable and there is hardware there. I even talked to my contact at Pro-Mance and the VPP3 is ready to sell. They won't sell something that doesn't work.

    When I read that article I was under the strong impression the author wanted to butcher these frames and downplay the companies selling them, at least was the way his writing came across.

  113. #113
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    Thanks for the detailed build info, pretty close to ordering a frame now.

    Hoping to build up a 29" boost bike capable of our local 'XC' races that most people would consider 'enduro rides'. Bit confused with rear travel, is it 100mm or 110mm? I see there are two shock options with 38mm or 44mm stroke options, but that doesn't quite add up, does it?

    MTB

    Looking on their site, I can't really tell the difference between the new M7007-II and M7007. They are listing both at the exact same weight, but it looks like the change is in clearance around the drivetrain. Not sure what to go with. Can anybody point me in the right direction? Would also like the T1000 frame mentioned, but don't see the option on there (was planning on shooting them a message).

    Should I be considering other brands/frames at this point? Geo looks good to me, just wish it was ~1 deg slacker to start. I will be running a 120mm fork up front.

  114. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by spec47 View Post
    Hoping to build up a 29" boost bike capable of our local 'XC' races that most people would consider 'enduro rides'.
    You're sure this is the right steed for you? What about more of a trail bike? ICAN P8, QTOUR M04, etc?

    Quote Originally Posted by spec47 View Post
    Bit confused with rear travel, is it 100mm or 110mm? I see there are two shock options with 38mm or 44mm stroke options, but that doesn't quite add up, does it?
    Rear wheel travel is advertised at 100mm. Shock options don't make sense to me either, I just went with 44mm and I think everybody else on this thread has as well. Hongfu advertises 44mm for the same frame.

    Quote Originally Posted by spec47 View Post
    Looking on their site, I can't really tell the difference between the new M7007-II and M7007. They are listing both at the exact same weight, but it looks like the change is in clearance around the drivetrain. Not sure what to go with. Can anybody point me in the right direction? Would also like the T1000 frame mentioned, but don't see the option on there (was planning on shooting them a message).
    They do offer a superlight Toray 800/1000 option which will shave 120g, you'll probably have to get a custom production either way but they will likely have a partially manufactured raw frame (front triangle) in the non-ultralight version laying around. This means they'd just need to do a rear triangle and you could probably get it at your door within a month, instead of a month and a half.

    The difference between models is clearance for a 32T chainring in the 27.5x3.0"/29x~2.5" model and a 36T chainring in the 29x2.4" model.

    Should I be considering other brands/frames at this point? Geo looks good to me, just wish it was ~1 deg slacker to start. I will be running a 120mm fork up front.
    Have you considered an angleset? There unfortunately aren't 29er boost trail options out there, other than QTOUR and one from TanTan, I believe.

  115. #115
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    I've got a Santa Cruz Hightower (135/150mm) for more serious rides, always figure it's more fun to ride a small bike fast than a big bike slow. Won't be racing until the snow melts in several months, so time isn't a huge concern and it might be worth the wait for me.

    Have thought about an angleset, just a bit concerned about stressing the frame while already running a 120mm fork. Certainly worth considering. Thanks for the help

  116. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by spec47 View Post
    I've got a Santa Cruz Hightower (135/150mm) for more serious rides, always figure it's more fun to ride a small bike fast than a big bike slow. Won't be racing until the snow melts in several months, so time isn't a huge concern and it might be worth the wait for me.

    Have thought about an angleset, just a bit concerned about stressing the frame while already running a 120mm fork. Certainly worth considering. Thanks for the help
    I have built my M7007 more trail-ish and have drawn inspiration from trendy bikes such as the Scott Spark, Intense Sniper Trail and Yeti SB100.

    I put a 120mm fork on my M7007, wide rims and tires and also a dropper post. The result is indeed a more capable bike on the descents and still a very good climber and speed machine. But the end result is no trail/AM bike like my YT Jeffsy, however.

    The PM M7007 is noticeably a fast XC bike at heart. That is how it was designed, after all. But as said, with some meatier components on it (and with that a one degree slacker HA) is feels more capable then a pure XC racer like the Specialized Epic and Canyon Lux (with their classic geo and steep headangle).

  117. #117
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    Hi folks,

    Great info on this thread. I'm thinking about getting either a catalogue frame or a Canyon Lux for endurance and XC MTB riding and racing. I've had MTBs before (2012 Scalpel 29 and 2008ish Ibis Mojo 26), but spent the last few years riding road and a bit of cross and gravel.

    I've costed out a Chinese build, which surprisingly doesn't come out much cheaper than a Lux. Am I missing something in terms of pricing? Prices are approximations, in usd.

    I would hope to have some savings with a catalogue build. If I get to the conclusion that it makes sense I'll have a bunch of questions 😊

    Thanks


  118. #118
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    If you are building a frame from scratch, buying every part and not switching some or all over from another build, it is usually more expensive. I'm moving all of my parts over from another frame so it is a lot cheaper for me to get the promance. $1000 with shock vs $3500+ for a Scott or similar name brand frame.
    Small ring in front makes it easier. Small ring in back makes it harder. That blows my mind.

  119. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by jever98 View Post
    I've costed out a Chinese build, which surprisingly doesn't come out much cheaper than a Lux. Am I missing something in terms of pricing? Prices are approximations, in usd.
    Canyon is definitely one of the most bang-for-buck brands out there. I respect their pricing a lot, but if you compare your specs to their specs at an equivalent price point, you're still substantially ahead.

    Your power meter seems to be driving up the costs quite a bit. To really compare your build kit to the Canyon Lux, maybe that should be left out of the analysis?

    There are some small places you can shave costs too which add up:
    - Get BTLOS wheels instead of Speedsafe (https://btlos.com/) - save $30. They are the manufacturer for Speedasfe wheels
    - Get XTR brakes from Universal Cycles ($270 for set of M9000 race) save $30
    - Get Ashima AI2 rotors for $30/pair on eBay or Aliexpress rotors for $10/pair (stuff similar to centerline out there as well for <$10)
    - You can get stock Axles for $10/ea. from Pro-Mance, but they will be heavy.
    - I don't know what kind of grips you're looking at, but the ones I used were $2 each after shipping from Aliexpress (silicone). I use them for about 500-1000 miles before slicing them up and putting on a new pair. Super comfortable.
    - Not sure if you have a handlebar in mind, but I get all my carbon bars for $15 from Aliexpress. Just don't overtighten clamps on the handlebar, that's why 99% of them break.

    Do you really need 12 speeds and the latest Shimano shifting tech? You can save almost $100 going with XTR/GX hybrid 1x11 system, and that's a bit lighter as well. Should work just as well.

    Did you forget to include the cost of shipping in your frame price? That's most likely going to be $85. Shock hardware is probably going to cost you $20-$30 actually.

    I find that I can build anything onto a catalog frame and always beat MSRP on any brand name frame, but I am willing to shop around, go for last year's parts or lightly used parts sold at a huge cut on eBay. Consumer-direct downhill and enduro bikes are an exception.

    I played around on eBay auctions quite a bit and saved a lot of money. Sent in offers before auctions closed, negotiated with sellers as auctions wound up, and got some sweet bargains. This spreadsheet may give you some ideas:

    21lb FS 29er build (Pro-Mance M9007)-picture2.jpg

  120. #120
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    @sissypants: thanks for the detailed info, that's super useful! I agree, with US pricing you would be ahead with the build, to really make a Lux cheaper I'd have to buy it in Germany and import it to the States. They have a very cost-effective model in Germany that's not sold in the states (the 7.0 SL).

    That said, I still like the idea of building myself and I I build up a frame, I am looking at either the Workswell 145, or the Carbonda CFR666 (CFR666 - Full Suspension - Carbonda Sports Equipment Co., Ltd.) right now. Both have aspects that I like:
    - Boost spacing
    - Geometry close to the Lux (which reassures me)
    - Space for 2 bottle cages (good for endurance racing)
    - Internal dropper routing, internal lock out routing.

    I have ordered from Carbonda before (their gravel frame) and found them to be reliable.

    The things I am wondering about:
    - The Carbonda has a shorter shock (165x38) vs the Workwell's 195x51 - is a longer shock preferable in terms of performance (e.g., due to higher air volume)?
    - I keep reading about shock and suspension tuning voodoo, but have little idea about it. Do I need to make sure I have the right shock, or do I even need to get it tuned? I find it really difficult to make sense of the large range of shocks available and to know what I should go for. I was thinking of getting one with handlebar lock out and maybe rebound tuning.
    - Brand manufacturers make much of how amazing their suspension is. how close do these frames come? I am mindful both of the marketing spiel that manufacturers put out, and of the fact that we all have confirmation bias, making us feel positive about our builds :-)
    - Lastly - what's the experience with the linkages and pivots - do the good catalogue frames keep up with Canyon, Scott, etc., in terms of longevity and tolerances?

    Thanks again for the help.

  121. #121
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    Saw this post and then forgot about it, sorry for the delay!

    Quote Originally Posted by jever98 View Post
    I have ordered from Carbonda before (their gravel frame) and found them to be reliable.
    The Carbonda CFR505 seems super nice. Lots of people in love with that frame over at ridinggravel.com. I almost got it at one point too

    Quote Originally Posted by jever98 View Post
    The Carbonda has a shorter shock (165x38) vs the Workwell's 195x51 - is a longer shock preferable in terms of performance (e.g., due to higher air volume)?
    Not my area of expertise, but I'm not aware of a relationship between shock length and performance. I'd need to come up with a good way to quantify "performance" and then see the data, not marketing promises, speculations, or forum chit-chat. My guess is if it mattered there would be a much more dominant preference in the industry.

    Quote Originally Posted by jever98 View Post
    I keep reading about shock and suspension tuning voodoo, but have little idea about it. Do I need to make sure I have the right shock, or do I even need to get it tuned? I find it really difficult to make sense of the large range of shocks available and to know what I should go for. I was thinking of getting one with handlebar lock out and maybe rebound tuning.
    Tuning is important if you want to remove spacers, swap out seals or make custom modifications, but I don't know much about the process. Shocks work very well right out of the box and are usually set up to how most riders will want it.

    You do need a 165mmx38mm (6.5" x 1.5") shock and you will need two specific spacer kits. I just threw the shock on my bike went to the trail with my shock pump and adjusted the pressure until I liked it. I'm pretty practical I'd only get lockout if you feel like you'll use it a lot and aren't able to reach down to flip the lever once or twice a ride. For me it would have been just extra weight and clutter.

    Quote Originally Posted by jever98 View Post
    Brand manufacturers make much of how amazing their suspension is. how close do these frames come? I am mindful both of the marketing spiel that manufacturers put out, and of the fact that we all have confirmation bias, making us feel positive about our builds :-)
    I could just copy-and-paste the bike review paragraph about Scott Spark suspension kinematics from BikeRadar or BikeRumor to this thread and nobody would know. Doesn't every bike review literally present the same cliches about climbing like a goat and descending like a beast? It's just nonsense trying to make decisions based on these reviews. The amount of travel, stability of the pedaling platform, and progression of the suspension curve has become so normalized across the XC realm that it's nearly useless trying to pick out practical differences. Here's some real data from Hongfu (re-plotted for clarity) on this frame's kinematics:

    21lb FS 29er build (Pro-Mance M9007)-kinematics-1.jpg
    21lb FS 29er build (Pro-Mance M9007)-kinematics-2.jpg
    21lb FS 29er build (Pro-Mance M9007)-kinematics-3.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by jever98 View Post
    what's the experience with the linkages and pivots - do the good catalogue frames keep up with Canyon, Scott, etc., in terms of longevity and tolerances?
    This frame comes with a carbon linkage and aluminum alloy bolts. Bearings are standard sizes and easy to replace if needed, but they are steel, sealed cartridge bearings just like everybody else. Tolerances of any carbon frame are going to be as precise as the CNC machine that carved out the clamshell mold, and that's standard across the industry. In terms of longevity, you're looking at the same quality of carbon layup as big brands, same material, same designers, same workers in the manufacturing line, there really isn't a difference.

  122. #122
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    I was wondering if someone could help me understand what frame size to get the M7007-II in? My current frame is a 2013 Giant Trance Medium, which the Giant site says is an 18 I think? I wonder if the 17.5 would work for me? I am 5'10". Thanks! Hot ! XC suspension frame (M7007-II, 36T)

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    Quote Originally Posted by geenslicker View Post
    I was wondering if someone could help me understand what frame size to get the M7007-II in? My current frame is a 2013 Giant Trance Medium, which the Giant site says is an 18 I think? I wonder if the 17.5 would work for me? I am 5'10". Thanks! Hot ! XC suspension frame (M7007-II, 36T)
    I think a 17.5" would work for you, but I'd personally get a 19". That way you can go with a shorter stem for quicker handling and won't need so much seatpost. Sent you a PM, check your inbox.

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    I'm the same height as you geenslicker and I got a 19. I was professionally fit and I'm running a 90mm stem. The bike fits perfectly. I love this frame.

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    Sissypants - I just ordered an FM-258 SL to build up a XC race bike for my son for the upcoming season. You're posts have been very helpful with the decision making process.

    Do these frames use a standard or trunnion mount shock?

  126. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gone4aride View Post
    Sissypants - I just ordered an FM-258 SL to build up a XC race bike for my son for the upcoming season. You're posts have been very helpful with the decision making process.

    Do these frames use a standard or trunnion mount shock?
    Standard non-trunnion 165*38mm shock with two sets of 22.4mm (22.0 or 22.2 works too) x 12mm shock mounting kits.

    Only a few frames use trunnion shocks and they expressly indicate in the specifications.

  127. #127
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    Hi Sissypants, you seem to be an FM-258 expert I have easy questions that have mostly already been answered above but I wanted to check.

    1) Sizing- the geometry is close to Spark RC and I should get large according to the Scott calculator, albeit at the lower end.

    Currently I am riding a 19" Chinese Carbon HT with 615mm effective TT, 80mm stem (7 deg down) and flat bars, which feels a good fit. My old bike was a 17.5" 2007 Mount Vision (~59cm ETT) with 100mm stem but as I've improved flexibility that was feeling slightly cramped.

    I think either the 17.5" or 19" FM258 could fit me ok but the 17.5" would need an unfashionably long stem. On the other hand I dislike bikes that feel too big.

    Best bet for FM258 is 19", right?

    2) I have a standard tune/fit 2015 Fox Boost CTD shock. This would fit and wouldn't need retuning, right?

    3) I have M9000 XTR cranks. The narrower stance won't be a problem, right? (I would go for the 142mm backend as 2.3" is OK for me).

    Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by ptd006 View Post
    Hi Sissypants, you seem to be an FM-258 expert I have easy questions that have mostly already been answered above but I wanted to check.

    1) Sizing- the geometry is close to Spark RC and I should get large according to the Scott calculator, albeit at the lower end.

    Currently I am riding a 19" Chinese Carbon HT with 615mm effective TT, 80mm stem (7 deg down) and flat bars, which feels a good fit. My old bike was a 17.5" 2007 Mount Vision (~59cm ETT) with 100mm stem but as I've improved flexibility that was feeling slightly cramped.

    I think either the 17.5" or 19" FM258 could fit me ok but the 17.5" would need an unfashionably long stem. On the other hand I dislike bikes that feel too big.

    Best bet for FM258 is 19", right?

    2) I have a standard tune/fit 2015 Fox Boost CTD shock. This would fit and wouldn't need retuning, right?

    3) I have M9000 XTR cranks. The narrower stance won't be a problem, right?

    Thanks
    1) Get a large 19" FM258, you won't regret it. You can go with a shorter stem and won't need as much seatpost.

    2) The shock needs to be 165x38mm. I'm not sure exactly what the dimensions are on your shock, but if it's not 165x38 it won't fit and you will need a new shock.

    3) XTR cranks should work, but you may need a new bottom bracket.

  129. #129
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    Great, thanks! (Yes it's a 165x38mm, sorry should have said that)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ptd006 View Post
    Great, thanks! (Yes it's a 165x38mm, sorry should have said that)
    Ok great, well then it should work! You'll just want to make sure that your spacer kit adapts to 22.4mm width and to an 8mm bolt. It's pretty standard, so I wouldn't be surprised if you have those kits on your current bike already. You'll need two of those kits.

  131. #131
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    Cool. I just measured and my current one is definitely wider so would need new mount kit but that's not a big deal. Thanks.

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    What happens if you order the Pro-mance 7007 II with 190x45 shock specs?

  133. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdang307 View Post
    What happens if you order the Pro-mance 7007 II with 190x45 shock specs?
    You can't? The frame hasn't been designed around those specs.

    Unless you want to pay $3500+ to open a new front triangle for the bike in your favorite size...

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    I built a m7007II with 165x38. There is an option to order it with 190x45. I am not sure what is changed but it would be easy to alter the frames shock mount. The shock linkage would also have to be altered to support the longer shock travel. I would send an email to steven ([email protected]). He is very responsive.

  135. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcriffraff View Post
    I built a m7007II with 165x38. There is an option to order it with 190x45. I am not sure what is changed but it would be easy to alter the frames shock mount. The shock linkage would also have to be altered to support the longer shock travel. I would send an email to steven ([email protected]). He is very responsive.
    Well then, I'm corrected! I was not aware. It doesn't seem "easy" or cheap to me, but this could be a performance advantage if it's been done well.

  136. #136
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    Can somebody who recently bought the M7007-II verify the shock hardware width? Schematics show 22.4mm and I've been recommended 21.8mm Fox kit. Don't have access to calipers right now.

    I'm having trouble finding hardware as most of our shops are closed for the winter and US shops can't ship Fox products outside of the country. Have Manitou Mcleod shock, but it looks like it should be compatible with the Fox kit.

    My frame needed a 1.5mm pitch axle and I had already ordered 1.0mm pitch (which the slightly older frames had) so I have a lightweight J&L axle that I would sell cheap (too expensive to send back to the seller) if anybody needs one.

  137. #137
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    Pro-mance right on their site lists 190x45 as an option. Just wondering what the travel would be.

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    190x44 but maybe that one mm travel doesn't matter?

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  139. #139
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    I used 22.20mm with 8mm for the fox hardware on my M7007II frame. I purchased through probikesupply.com. Thanks for the update on the rear axle . I will remove the link to the J&L from my build blog.
    Also thanks for the correction on the shock travel.

  140. #140
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    What are the torque specs for the shock mount bolts? Got my frame in and I'm building mine up...
    Small ring in front makes it easier. Small ring in back makes it harder. That blows my mind.

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    Ever figure out the torque specs? Finally got some 22.2 hardware. Top was pretty tight, but bottom seemed a bit loose. Pro-mance M7007-II schematics showed 22.4 top and bottom.

  142. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by spec47 View Post
    Ever figure out the torque specs? Finally got some 22.2 hardware. Top was pretty tight, but bottom seemed a bit loose. Pro-mance M7007-II schematics showed 22.4 top and bottom.
    Don't quote me on this, but I think I remember a similar frame I had which called for 8 N-m torque. It should be pretty standard for all carbon linkages.

  143. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by spec47 View Post
    Ever figure out the torque specs? Finally got some 22.2 hardware. Top was pretty tight, but bottom seemed a bit loose. Pro-mance M7007-II schematics showed 22.4 top and bottom.
    How have you guys generally done regarding with of the shock hardware. Seems likely the specified with is not 100% correct? When I measured it seems more like 22 than 22.2. How important is this tolerance? Is it ok to go with IE 21.8 and be on the safe side? Our should I measure with a really good digital scale and order accordingly?

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  144. #144
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    Hello,

    Also at my M7007 (size 21 inch) Pro-Mance has been a bit too enthusiastic with 22.4mm for the shock hardware. I needed 21.8mm, above and below. I use a Rockshox Monarch 165x38.

    About the rear axle. My M7007 frame has a pitch tread mount of 1.0mm. Therefor I ordered the very lightweight Hardlite tru axle, type Scott RWS Boost 12x148.
    That axle has a pitch tread of 1.0mm, but the tread length from factory is only 9mm and that's to short for the M7007 frame to tighten this thru axle. However, after I have extended the tread length of the Hardlite axle to 25mm (at every local iron store this is possible, I guess), it fits perfectly and does the job wonderful so far.

    Her the direck web link to the Hardlite axle: https://www.ebay.nl/itm/273320378820?ul_noapp=true

    Hopefully this information will help.

  145. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry77 View Post
    Hello,

    Also at my M7007 (size 21 inch) Pro-Mance has been a bit too enthusiastic with 22.4mm for the shock hardware. I needed 21.8mm, above and below. I use a Rockshox Monarch 165x38.

    About the rear axle. My M7007 frame has a pitch tread mount of 1.0mm. Therefor I ordered the very lightweight Hardlite tru axle, type Scott RWS Boost 12x148.
    That axle has a pitch tread of 1.0mm, but the tread length from factory is only 9mm and that's to short for the M7007 frame to tighten this thru axle. However, after I have extended the tread length of the Hardlite axle to 25mm (at every local iron store this is possible, I guess), it fits perfectly and does the job wonderful so far.

    Her the direck web link to the Hardlite axle: https://www.ebay.nl/itm/273320378820?ul_noapp=true

    Hopefully this information will help.
    Thanks. I did some careful measures and it is 21.8. I ordered a Monarch Rt3. Mostly because I have the same shock on another bike so service will be easy.

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  146. #146
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    Finally got it built up. Only thing I'm missing is the absolute black chainring. It's stuck in the polar vortex somewhere. After the first ride, my only complaint is the internal routing makes a lot of racket. More than my other frames. Not sure why. Other than that I was impressed with the first ride.

    *Frame: Promance 7007 Super light 12x142 Large
    *Fox float rp23 with Titanium mounting hardware.
    *Maxle rear axle
    *Chinese carbon rims
    *Maxxis Ardent Race 2.3 front
    *Maxxis Ikon 2.2 rear
    *DT Swiss 350 rear hub with 54t ratchet
    *Lefty 50 front hub
    *Lefty Carbon hybrid 100mm
    *XT brakes
    *XT icetech rotors
    *XX1 crankset 156 Q factor, it’s a tight fit
    *Token threaded BB92 bottom bracket(Love this thing! It’s the answer to one of the dumbest things that a frame can come with, a press fit BB)
    *Currently 30t with stock spider. Absolute Black 32t chainring (on the way)
    *XTR Rear Derailleur
    *Garbaruk 11-50 cassette
    *XTR chain
    *Carbon seatpost. Same one as Sissypants
    *Aliexpress full carbon saddle with leather cover The verdict is still out on this.
    *Syntace 60mm stem
    *Aerozine headset
    *Loaded X-lite carbon riser
    *Wolftooth silicone grips
    *Titanium bolts throughout.

    21lb FS 29er build (Pro-Mance M9007)-1.jpg
    21lb FS 29er build (Pro-Mance M9007)-2.jpg
    21lb FS 29er build (Pro-Mance M9007)-weight.jpg
    Small ring in front makes it easier. Small ring in back makes it harder. That blows my mind.

  147. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lenny7 View Post
    *Carbon seatpost. Same one as Sissypants
    Click image for larger version. 

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    That's a nice build!

    Let me know how that seatpost works for you long-term. I had one of the bolts randomly snap on me (everything was properly tensioned) when I took a hard bump on the front of my saddle. I got steel bolts instead, only to have the alloy bar that runs through the top of the carbon post crack on the next big impact a few rides later (it bent slightly in that first impact). I got in touch with Elita One (the seller I bought from on AliExpress) and they honored their warranty policy and are sending me a new mounting mechanism. I'll try it again (with steel bolts) but am a little skeptical.

  148. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by sissypants View Post
    That's a nice build!

    Let me know how that seatpost works for you long-term. I had one of the bolts randomly snap on me (everything was properly tensioned) when I took a hard bump on the front of my saddle. I got steel bolts instead, only to have the alloy bar that runs through the top of the carbon post crack on the next big impact a few rides later (it bent slightly in that first impact). I got in touch with Elita One (the seller I bought from on AliExpress) and they honored their warranty policy and are sending me a new mounting mechanism. I'll try it again (with steel bolts) but am a little skeptical.
    Thank you.
    yeah, the post gives me a little pause. I've also thought about the Hylix. Looks a little more robust but still under 200 grams.
    Small ring in front makes it easier. Small ring in back makes it harder. That blows my mind.

  149. #149
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    that looks great. Can you post a pic of the rear clearence? I am looking to purchase the same frame and Steven at ProMance said the max clearence was 29x2.1 but you clearly have a bigger tire in there.
    rise above

  150. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by auntesther View Post
    that looks great. Can you post a pic of the rear clearence? I am looking to purchase the same frame and Steven at ProMance said the max clearence was 29x2.1 but you clearly have a bigger tire in there.
    The above pic has a 2.2 on the rear and is fine. I don't have a closeup of it. I first put a 2.35 on it and was too close for my comfort.
    Here's a pic of the 2.35. Doable but would have some rubbing. 21lb FS 29er build (Pro-Mance M9007)-tire.jpg
    Small ring in front makes it easier. Small ring in back makes it harder. That blows my mind.

  151. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lenny7 View Post
    The above pic has a 2.2 on the rear and is fine. I don't have a closeup of it. I first put a 2.35 on it and was too close for my comfort.
    Here's a pic of the 2.35. Doable but would have some rubbing. Click image for larger version. 

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    I run an ICON 2.35 in the rear on that frame and I have not had any major rubbing issues. But it’s not a lot of clearance for mud, etc.

  152. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by babarnicle View Post
    I run an ICON 2.35 in the rear on that frame and I have not had any major rubbing issues. But it’s not a lot of clearance for mud, etc.
    Boost or 142?
    Small ring in front makes it easier. Small ring in back makes it harder. That blows my mind.

  153. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by auntesther View Post
    that looks great. Can you post a pic of the rear clearence? I am looking to purchase the same frame and Steven at ProMance said the max clearence was 29x2.1 but you clearly have a bigger tire in there.
    Why not just get the M7007-II with clearance for 29x2.4" and 27.5x3.0" tires? The only disadvantage that I see is front chainring clearance, where the 29x2.2" version fits a 36T while the 27.5+ version fits 32T. Do you really need that bigger chainring?

  154. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lenny7 View Post
    Boost or 142?
    I run 142.

  155. #155
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    Thanks for posting this thread sissypants. It's opened up a whole new world of bike buying options to me.
    "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

  156. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrewMaster View Post
    Thanks for posting this thread sissypants. It's opened up a whole new world of bike buying options to me.
    My pleasure, that's the goal!

    I have a similar thread coming out on a hardtail build towards the end of this month, and another build thread planned for early May. The May thread might just rock the forums.
    Follow me on Strava, Instagram @therealsissypants, and Facebook

  157. #157
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    My build of the Pro-Mance:
    DT Swiss OPM fork
    Rock shox RT3 shock
    Stans Crest wheels
    SLX 1x11 gears and crankset.
    Carbon handlebar:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-...7d9b4c4dGIoTmi
    Carbon seatpost: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Tide...7d9b4c4dGIoTmi
    Carbon saddle:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/MTB-...7d9b4c4dGIoTmi
    Vittoria Mezcal and Barzo tires.
    Weight a bit over 11 kg.
    21lb FS 29er build (Pro-Mance M9007)-20190316_154052.jpg

  158. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by miklax View Post
    My build of the Pro-Mance:
    DT Swiss OPM fork
    Rock shox RT3 shock
    Stans Crest wheels
    SLX 1x11 gears and crankset.
    Carbon handlebar:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-...7d9b4c4dGIoTmi
    Carbon seatpost: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Tide...7d9b4c4dGIoTmi
    Carbon saddle:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/MTB-...7d9b4c4dGIoTmi
    Vittoria Mezcal and Barzo tires.
    Weight a bit over 11 kg.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Very sweet build! And great component choices! For the amount you spent you're getting some serious performance.

    Did your shock mounting hardware end up working out fine for you? No play around the bolts?
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  159. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by sissypants View Post
    Very sweet build! And great component choices! For the amount you spent you're getting some serious performance.

    Did your shock mounting hardware end up working out fine for you? No play around the bolts?
    Thanks, I took most of the components from my old bike so I got a lot for the amount spent.
    I had play but added a spacer, that solved the problem.

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    How do you guys feel about the seat (ali express padded carbon)? Everytime I hit it hard there is a loud cracking sound from it wich scares the shit out of me. But I can not find a crack neither on the seatpost or the saddle... And everyting feels stiff.

  161. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by miklax View Post
    How do you guys feel about the seat (ali express padded carbon)? Everytime I hit it hard there is a loud cracking sound from it wich scares the shit out of me. But I can not find a crack neither on the seatpost or the saddle... And everyting feels stiff.
    I know what you're talking about, it's not the saddle, it's the seatpost clamp and saddle rail interface. I had a seatpost where the clamps were just slightly undersized and the grooves didn't align exactly with the rails. Even if I over-tightened the bolts, to the point I feared for the carbon rails, big impacts on the saddle would cause the clamps to shift slightly from one side to the other and make a loud cracking sound. The bolts wouldn't get looser though. With properly wide seatpost clamps that fit the contour of the rails perfectly, I have no issues.

    My only idea to fix this is to either dremel away your seatpost clamp so that it fits exactly (if that is the case for you), or get another seatpost model that would fit this saddle better.

    This is the seatpost that didn't work well for me:

    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2017...823444196.html

    This is an AliExpress seatpost that did work for me:

    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Road...822592827.html
    Follow me on Strava, Instagram @therealsissypants, and Facebook

  162. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by sissypants View Post
    I know what you're talking about, it's not the saddle, it's the seatpost clamp and saddle rail interface. I had a seatpost where the clamps were just slightly undersized and the grooves didn't align exactly with the rails. Even if I over-tightened the bolts, to the point I feared for the carbon rails, big impacts on the saddle would cause the clamps to shift slightly from one side to the other and make a loud cracking sound. The bolts wouldn't get looser though. With properly wide seatpost clamps that fit the contour of the rails perfectly, I have no issues.

    My only idea to fix this is to either dremel away your seatpost clamp so that it fits exactly (if that is the case for you), or get another seatpost model that would fit this saddle better.

    This is the seatpost that didn't work well for me:

    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2017...823444196.html

    This is an AliExpress seatpost that did work for me:

    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Road...822592827.html
    That is exactly the seat post I am using, only branded Tidace. Thanks for the info. I may keep it until I upgrade to dropper...

    Edit: Seeing my own image it might also help to move it back a bit...

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  163. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by miklax View Post
    That is exactly the seat post I am using, only branded Tidace. Thanks for the info. I may keep it until I upgrade to dropper...

    Edit: Seeing my own image it might also help to move it back a bit...

    Skickat från min SM-G950F via Tapatalk
    Yep, it's fine to ride and I didn't have any functional issues, just now you know what makes the noise. BXT and Tideace often sell the same products, and seem to me to work out of the same factory building.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sissypants View Post
    Yep, it's fine to ride and I didn't have any functional issues, just now you know what makes the noise. BXT and Tideace often sell the same products, and seem to me to work out of the same factory building.
    This thread is diamonds! <3

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    Quote Originally Posted by sissypants View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    until the new Workswell frame hits the market later this summer
    Hi Sissypants. May I ask which frame this is? the only one I see listed on their site that would meet the criteria is the "WCB-M-145", but looks like this one has been around for a while.

    I'm trying to get more info from Hong Fu and Pro Mance about their frames, but my emails have gone unanswered. Doesn't bode well in case I need warranty work later on :-(

    Cheers

  166. #166
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    That makes sense since you are replying to an old post...
    Regarding unanswered mails, that seems strange, at least pro-mance have always been good at replying. My advanced guess is that they are occupied with https://www.taipeicycle.com.tw/

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    Quote Originally Posted by miklax View Post
    That makes sense since you are replying to an old post...
    Regarding unanswered mails, that seems strange, at least pro-mance have always been good at replying. My advanced guess is that they are occupied with https://www.taipeicycle.com.tw/
    Perhaps I should have been more explicit. I see references to the WCB-M-145 from back in August 2017, which predates this thread by 9 months, so it can't be that frame

    Ah, thanks for the tip. Yes, perhaps they are busy in that trade show, I'll cut them some slack :-). I have heard back from Hong Fu, but nothing from Pro-Mance (which I'm more interested in as they have the lighter option)

  168. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by upacs View Post
    Perhaps I should have been more explicit. I see references to the WCB-M-145 from back in August 2017, which predates this thread by 9 months, so it can't be that frame

    Ah, thanks for the tip. Yes, perhaps they are busy in that trade show, I'll cut them some slack :-). I have heard back from Hong Fu, but nothing from Pro-Mance (which I'm more interested in as they have the lighter option)
    I was referring to the WCB-M-145 frame, which is a nice frame. However, Pro-Mance is working on a new frame that will launch in May which I would very much recommend over the WCB-M-145. They are using a suspension platform like the Rocky Mountain Element. It will be offered in normal and ultralight offerings, designed for 120mm of front travel and 105-120mm of rear travel depending on shock stroke. I won't share a lot of the details now, but this gives you an idea. Geometry numbers have not yet been pinned down (the drawing is from an early design), but there's a good chance they will be very forward-thinking (if Pro-Mance listens to me). Based on the linkage analysis they showed me, the rear suspension seems to be dialed!

    I will have this new frame in for a review likely end of June.

    If you're looking for 100mm front travel, however, I still recommend the M7007-II.

    miklax is correct, they are all at the Taipei Cycle Show. They won't have a chance to respond until Monday.

    If anyone else is going to TCS please send me a PM or update us here!

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    Ah, cool, thanks for the info. I'm after a 100mm travel XC machine, so right now the M7007-II seems to have all the winning tickets. The only downside is that I can secure a good deal on a Praxis Works Lyft crankset, but it's non boost, and this frame is boost :-(. The Hong Fu is not boost but then it's heavier... doesn't seem to be much point going with a heavier frameset just so I can get a lighter crankset 😅

    So I may just get a "cheap" SRAM GX group (minus brakes) to go with it and invest in better suspension

  170. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by upacs View Post
    Ah, cool, thanks for the info. I'm after a 100mm travel XC machine, so right now the M7007-II seems to have all the winning tickets. The only downside is that I can secure a good deal on a Praxis Works Lyft crankset, but it's non boost, and this frame is boost :-(. The Hong Fu is not boost but then it's heavier... doesn't seem to be much point going with a heavier frameset just so I can get a lighter crankset 😅

    So I may just get a "cheap" SRAM GX group (minus brakes) to go with it and invest in better suspension
    GX Eagle is a solid grouppo, in my opinion that crankset is the best bang for buck if you're weight conscious. Better yet, go GX Eagle crankset, Shimano XT/SRAM GX 11s derailleur/shifter, and SRAM XG-1150 cassette. Very few people actually need Eagle and the extra weight that comes with it. But don't stress about the crankset weight, that's the least important place to try saving weight on a bike.

    Be prepared for a lead time of around 45 days on the M7007, but it's worth waiting for!
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    Given the terrain, I'm already a bit apprehensive about going 1x12 instead of 2x11. I have some huge mountains around here (I live in Switzerland, hello Alps!) and I like doing big climbs (and descents). So with 1x12 and 10-50 the chain ring choice is going to be a trade off between low enough gearing to tackle the super steep parts at the end of a massive climb vs having the low enough gearing for the odd bit of tarmac. This is another reason I'm also considering a relatively inexpensive GX groupset. At around €350 or so, it would not be a massive loss if I had to go 2x11/12 later

    I can wait for the M7007. Gives me time to figure out the rest of the components and actually build some wheels for it

    Cheers

  172. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by upacs View Post
    Given the terrain, I'm already a bit apprehensive about going 1x12 instead of 2x11. I have some huge mountains around here (I live in Switzerland, hello Alps!) and I like doing big climbs (and descents). So with 1x12 and 10-50 the chain ring choice is going to be a trade off between low enough gearing to tackle the super steep parts at the end of a massive climb vs having the low enough gearing for the odd bit of tarmac.

    I can wait for the M7007. Gives me time to figure out the rest of the components and actually build some wheels for it.
    Hm, work out the gearing ratios vs. speed. For example, given an outer tire diameter of 29", a front chainring of 32T, a rear range of 10-50T, and a cadence of 90 rpm, you're looking at speeds like this:

    (29 inches * PI) * (1 mile/63360 inches) * (90 rotations/min) * (60 min/hour) * 1 = 7.76 mph in 1:1 gear ratio
    7.76 mph * 32/10 = 24.8 mph
    7.76 mph * 32/50 = 5.27 mph

    How much slower than 5.3 mph do you want to go before you just get off your bike and walk? Note, a cadence of 60rpm would take this down to 3.51 mph. That's walking pace. You can't go much slower without tipping over on your bike.

    How often do you exceed speeds of 25 mph on your full-suspension XC bike and wish you could still power faster? Note, a cadence of 100rpm would take this up to nearly 28mph.

    Even if I'm facing the steepest rocky climbs and tarmac descents in a single ride, I can't see myself trading the simplicity of 1x for a 2x system. But for each their own! Good luck! Otherwise get a OneUp Switch chainring set and run 30T for singletrack days and 36T for road days. It takes 1 minute to switch chainrings, no need to remove cranks.
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  173. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by sissypants View Post
    How much slower than 5.3 mph do you want to go before you just get off your bike and walk?
    Walk? never!

    With my current setup I have a triple and 9sp cassette (stop giggling at the back!) so that gives me a 44x11 high and 22x34 low on a 26" bike. At 60rpm I'll do 4.9kph, and at 110rpm I'll do 55.6kph with this setup.

    I have used both ends, although the high end only rarely. So I'll be setting up a 1x12 to give me as close as possible a gear to 22x34, and do my best when a high gear is required.

    This means a 30t ring with 10-50 cassette which on 29" wheels equates to 5kph at 60rpm and 46kph at 110rpm. The low end is very close (on a lighter bike, so that should help), the high end not so much but I think I can live with that. But only actually using this setup will tell me if I can live with the big gaps in the 11-50 cassette
    Last edited by upacs; 03-27-2019 at 09:11 AM. Reason: Fixed cassette range from 11-50 to 10-50

  174. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by sissypants View Post
    Geometry numbers have not yet been pinned down (the drawing is from an early design), but there's a good chance they will be very forward-thinking (if Pro-Mance listens to me). Based on the linkage analysis they showed me, the rear suspension seems to be dialed!


    Click image for larger version. 

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    With this drawing you can measure all the geometry and specs. Based on 440mm CS my results are coherent.
    It's the average new school trail bike, nothing extreme or revolutionary.

  175. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by chti ludo View Post
    With this drawing you can measure all the geometry and specs. Based on 440mm CS my results are coherent.
    It's the average new school trail bike, nothing extreme or revolutionary.
    You can measure everything, but as I said this drawing was made before they pinned down all the geometry. Take it simply as an example of the suspension configuration and overall looks. The HTA, STA, Reach, Stack, BB drop, and chainstay length are still up in the air. I've pushed them towards a longer reach, lower stack, slacker HTA, steeper STA, and shorter chainstays.

    No, it won't be extreme or revolutionary, but hopefully it ends up being a fast and fun ride.
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  176. #176
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    Even if it is an avarage new school trail bike, it is a new school trail bike.
    Not so many of those from china until now...

  177. #177
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    Looks like the perfect bike for the XC racing around here... should be taking my M7007-II out for it's first ride today so I probably shouldn't be doing any bike shopping quite yet!

    Happy to see the seat tube. One issue I ran into was the kink in the seat tube severely limiting the length of dropper post that I could run. Had to sell my previous OneUp 170mm and buy a 150mm then shim it down to 100mm. Might be able to get a few more mm once I dial in saddle height.

    Hoping the geo is a bit closer to a Sniper (or SB100) than the Element.

  178. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by spec47 View Post
    Hoping the geo is a bit closer to a sniper (or sb100) than the element.
    FWIW. This is some of what I got for review.

    21lb FS 29er build (Pro-Mance M9007)-pic1.jpg
    21lb FS 29er build (Pro-Mance M9007)-pica.png
    21lb FS 29er build (Pro-Mance M9007)-picb.png
    21lb FS 29er build (Pro-Mance M9007)-pic2.png
    21lb FS 29er build (Pro-Mance M9007)-pic3.png
    21lb FS 29er build (Pro-Mance M9007)-pic4.png
    21lb FS 29er build (Pro-Mance M9007)-pic5.png
    21lb FS 29er build (Pro-Mance M9007)-pic6.png
    21lb FS 29er build (Pro-Mance M9007)-pic7.png
    21lb FS 29er build (Pro-Mance M9007)-pic8.png
    21lb FS 29er build (Pro-Mance M9007)-pic9.png
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  179. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by sissypants View Post
    I've pushed them towards a longer reach, lower stack, slacker HTA, steeper STA, and shorter chainstays.
    Would agree with all of those. First ride on the M7007-II went really well, will post up impressions/build eventually.

  180. #180
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    I am not an expert at bike geometry and only looking at the headtube angle:
    From my calculations that should be a 150mm travel fork in front, with that said doesn't 68 deg feel quite steep? Compared to a Scott Genious for example..

  181. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by sissypants View Post
    FWIW. This is some of what I got for review.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    It's more or less the same geometry as orbea oiz TR. For a 120mm I would have prefered more downcountry numbers (44-45 reach for medium, HTA around 67 or 66°)
    But it's gonna be a fun and good bike for sure

  182. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by chti ludo View Post
    It's more or less the same geometry as orbea oiz TR. For a 120mm I would have prefered more downcountry numbers (44-45 reach for medium, HTA around 67 or 66°)
    But it's gonna be a fun and good bike for sure
    68 would be OK for a 120mm fork, maybe a bit steep. What bothers me is the 524mm fork length. That would be a 150mm fork, at least according to this list:
    https://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspe...ry-470024.html

    Putting a 120mm fork on that frame would be much steeper than 68 deg.

    Edit: Did some calculations, decreasing fork length from 524 (150) to 490(120) increases ha to 72.
    Law of Cosines -- from Wolfram MathWorld


    I may very well be wrong, please correct me if so...

  183. #183
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    I assume fork length is axle to crown and that would look like a 120mm fork to me. Fox 34 29" is 527.1mm (120mm). Maybe you're leaving looking at 27.5" lengths?

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    Quote Originally Posted by spec47 View Post
    I assume fork length is axle to crown and that would look like a 120mm fork to me. Fox 34 29" is 527.1mm (120mm). Maybe you're leaving looking at 27.5" lengths?
    lol, you are right!!!
    Sometimes the simplest things get wrong and the doing a lot of calculations on that. Offcause the library is old and probably even specifying 26" frames!

    Thanks for the correction!!!

  185. #185
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    I specifically suggested at least 445mm reach, 66.5-degree head angle, and 585mm stack in size 19". I was maybe a bit extreme with the HTA but I was thinking of making the bike useful for 100mm travel forks (then ~67.5 HTA) in addition to 120mm travel forks and longer, with more of a downcountry feel. If you're running 140mm+ forks (~65.5 HTA), the bike probably isn't for you anyways. I also suggested a flip chip in the linkage to allow adjustment of the HTA by +/- 1 degree so people can decide for themselves whether they like such a slack HTA. I also suggested they work on the leverage ratio just a bit to move it up to 115mm at 50mm shock stroke and ~130mm at 55mm shock stroke, this would play more to the downcountry or longer-travel XC character of the bike. These suggestions were acknowledged, passed on to the engineer, and I haven't heard since.

    If you are interested in a size 21" of this new frame, send me a PM and I'll add you to the list I'm compiling of 21" riders. Pro-Mance may not open a 21" mold unless there is enough interest, because the most demand is for sizes 15", 17", and 19" globally. I think they need about 25 sales of this size just to cover tooling costs. I may also be able to negotiate a bulk discount.
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  186. #186
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    Was watching UCI women’s World Cup from Nove Mesto. Anna Tauber was leading most of the race on this frame. Sure looks like American Eagle is using the Promance or Hong Fu Scott spark open mold frames. No?

  187. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by sissypants View Post
    Canyon is definitely one of the most bang-for-buck brands out there. I respect their pricing a lot, but if you compare your specs to their specs at an equivalent price point, you're still substantially ahead.

    Your power meter seems to be driving up the costs quite a bit. To really compare your build kit to the Canyon Lux, maybe that should be left out of the analysis?

    There are some small places you can shave costs too which add up:
    - Get BTLOS wheels instead of Speedsafe (https://btlos.com/) - save $30. They are the manufacturer for Speedasfe wheels
    - Get XTR brakes from Universal Cycles ($270 for set of M9000 race) save $30
    - Get Ashima AI2 rotors for $30/pair on eBay or Aliexpress rotors for $10/pair (stuff similar to centerline out there as well for <$10)
    - You can get stock Axles for $10/ea. from Pro-Mance, but they will be heavy.
    - I don't know what kind of grips you're looking at, but the ones I used were $2 each after shipping from Aliexpress (silicone). I use them for about 500-1000 miles before slicing them up and putting on a new pair. Super comfortable.
    - Not sure if you have a handlebar in mind, but I get all my carbon bars for $15 from Aliexpress. Just don't overtighten clamps on the handlebar, that's why 99% of them break.

    Do you really need 12 speeds and the latest Shimano shifting tech? You can save almost $100 going with XTR/GX hybrid 1x11 system, and that's a bit lighter as well. Should work just as well.

    Did you forget to include the cost of shipping in your frame price? That's most likely going to be $85. Shock hardware is probably going to cost you $20-$30 actually.

    I find that I can build anything onto a catalog frame and always beat MSRP on any brand name frame, but I am willing to shop around, go for last year's parts or lightly used parts sold at a huge cut on eBay. Consumer-direct downhill and enduro bikes are an exception.

    I played around on eBay auctions quite a bit and saved a lot of money. Sent in offers before auctions closed, negotiated with sellers as auctions wound up, and got some sweet bargains. This spreadsheet may give you some ideas:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Please could you share a link to your silicone grip from Aliexpress. Want to order some as the ESIs are getting worn out.

  188. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by charlesrg View Post
    Please could you share a link to your silicone grip from Aliexpress. Want to order some as the ESIs are getting worn out.
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bike-Silico...w/362652181701

    These are the thicker ones, maybe not quite as thick as ESI Chunkies but thicker than most similar options in the cheapo market. But hey, you get 15 pairs for the price of 1 pair of ESIs
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  189. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by sissypants View Post
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bike-Silico...w/362652181701

    These are the thicker ones, maybe not quite as thick as ESI Chunkies but thicker than most similar options in the cheapo market. But hey, you get 15 pairs for the price of 1 pair of ESIs
    Great man, I just ordered two. If you find some of the thinner ones please share. wife usually uses the Race ones for small hands.

  190. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by charlesrg View Post
    Great man, I just ordered two. If you find some of the thinner ones please share. wife usually uses the Race ones for small hands.
    Oh the thin ones are pretty much any other option on eBay. They are junk. They break, rip, shred, crack, and stain.

    I should mention all of these grips have shabby bar ends. You're best off transferring those from another set of grips.
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  191. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by sissypants View Post
    However, Pro-Mance is working on a new frame that will launch in May which I would very much recommend over the WCB-M-145. They are using a suspension platform like the Rocky Mountain Element. It will be offered in normal and ultralight offerings, designed for 120mm of front travel and 105-120mm of rear travel depending on shock stroke.
    Hi Sissy,
    Do you know if this frame that you were referring to has been released yet? Also is it 27.5 or 29?
    Thx, Lloyd

  192. #192
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    Hi,

    i was looking for NON-BOOST FS frame which would be around 1.8kg for size M. Have you found some frame which meets these criteria? All of them i saw are either way above 2kg (for frame only) or are boost frames. One more which is quite important is that the rear triangle shall be one piece (e.g. not like in older spark) since i have bad experience with more complex suspension systems.

    Thx
    MCC

  193. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by party_wagon View Post
    There is no way I'm going to support someone ripping off frame designs. The cockpit and other things that are pretty much a set standard, sure.
    The entire bike industry rips off each other constantly. The only things that don't get copied have patents. All you are doing is parroting what big bike tells you to say.

    What there are like 15-20 flexstay "name brand" bikes only 2 years after the Sparks release.

    So what you mean to say is that it's ok to rip off each other's Geo etc like trek ripping off Specialized SWAT storage as long as they are not Asian. Got it.

  194. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Van Deventer View Post
    The entire bike industry rips off each other constantly. The only things that don't get copied have patents. All you are doing is parroting what big bike tells you to say.

    What there are like 15-20 flexstay "name brand" bikes only 2 years after the Sparks release.

    So what you mean to say is that it's ok to rip off each other's Geo etc like trek ripping off Specialized SWAT storage as long as they are not Asian. Got it.
    Agree - only these who are progressing are not getting coppied - look at Darimo, Schmolke, MCFK, Bike Ahead - are these gus being coppied? They're manufacturing simple things (bars, seatposts, etc) - as plenty of them in China. Same with frames - so either you produce premium and expensive product which people are buying because of it's unique parameters or you're accepting that the bar, seatpost or frame is not that light, stiff and durable - but costs a third or forth piece of these premium.
    Last edited by mcc666; 08-29-2019 at 04:20 AM.

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    Hello all! Thanks for letting me into the group. I road a Cross Country Kona for years (since 2000) and some asshole stole it two weeks ago, so I'm now on a Reliegh Talus. I don't care for it much, so I'm looking to lighten it up as much as possible and upgrade the components and brakes. Any ideas and thoughts on this bike?

  196. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by sissypants View Post
    FWIW. This is some of what I got for review.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    @Sissypants, what ever became of this frame? I can't find where but I think you said they pulled the plug. I'm over in the dual suspension 29er thread looking for help post #2425. and also trying to get my registration at chinertown approved so if you've got connections over there could you please get them to approve?

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