2019 Guerrilla Gravity The Smash 29er- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    2019 Guerrilla Gravity The Smash 29er

    Figured I would post up a build thread on this!! Just received her last night and spent the evening building her up and starting the bedding in of the brakes, first suspension tune ride will be this afternoon (4/17/19).

    I bought this bike not because my current trail bike (2013 Hammerhead Thumper - think Spesh FSR Clone) was old or bad, rather this year is my 40th and figured there was no better reason to spend a grip of money on something than going with a new bike!!! The original plan was to order a Smash, after demoing them last year, right around the beginning of the year so that I could have enough time to get the bike and get used to it prior to the Epic Rides Capital City Offroad mtb race that happens in my home town. However, GG kept telling me to wait when I was ready to put in the order in January. Good thing I did as they released their new carbon processing and carbon bike at the end of January. You can read all about their new REVVED carbon here and their modular frame process.

    So fast forward some nine odd weeks later and I finally have my bike.
    I didn't have a huge amount to spend on the bike and wanted to have something ready-to-ride as soon as possible so I decided to go with their Ride 2 build instead of just getting the frame and slowly building up from there. Sure there are things that will be swapped out sooner or later but that is all part of the process of making the bike mine!!! And that's part of the fun of it all!

    Here is the basics of the build...
    - Fork: RS Yari RC 150mm
    - Shock: RS Super Deluxe Coil w/400lbs spring (upgraded from standard package RS Deluxe RT)
    - Cockpit: RaceFace 35 stuff
    - Wheels: DT Swiss M1900 w/ Maxxis DHF and Aggressor 2.35"
    - Drivetrain: SRAM NX Eagle
    - Brakes: SRAM Code R
    - Dropper: SDG Tellis

    I will be adding a few bits to personalize it like a OneUP bashguide, Sensus FatPaw grips (purple lock-on) and other small pieces here and there. Build up was super easy, bike came in two boxes with wheels in their own box with the shock.

  2. #2
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    And now time for the piktors!!

    Everyone loves NEW SHIRT DAY!!!
    Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr

    Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr
    Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr
    Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr
    Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr
    Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr
    Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr
    Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr
    Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr

  3. #3
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    Awesome. If I was replacing my bike, this would be on my absolute short list, so I'll be watching this with interest.

  4. #4
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    First tuning ride is done! Lots of stops to adjust saddle and dropper height, couple other small adjustments but everything seems good for the time being. Got to tune the Yari a bit more still. Never had to put so much air in a fork, up to 140psi currently and that is at like 28% sag...

    Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr

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    Greg looks happy, all is good in the world, happy fortieth 😋
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  6. #6
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    One of the best looking frames out there.... im digging the angular lines on it
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  7. #7
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    Looks super nice!
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  8. #8
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    Definitely a great ride and rides VERY similar to the aluminum version from what I remember. She definitely is a hefty girl though at about 35# unscientific way of me on scale then me + bike on scale. She feels hefty when you pick her up but DEFINITELY does not pedal like it. Going up hill, the only thing that feels different about the ride vs. my old trail bike is the seat tube angle, really that is the most discerning factor, that is until you head downhill.

    Gonna take a bit to tweak the fork to be as plush as my Auron PCS RC2 is, or close there of, but the Yari is probably not long for this bike.
    Reason for not upgrading the internals of the Yari... well personal preference I guess. To me the ROI on spending $200+ on the Charger Damper, then AT LEAST another $200+ to fix its inherent problems (which they are getting better with the 2.1 but that is a bit out) and then to spend another $200 on something like a Luftkappe or MRP Ramp Control or DSD Runt, well I am looking at close to the cost of a new fork right there.

    With the terrain I ride in, for the bigger hits the Yari does fine no complaints there, but I also have a lot of fast, chundery sections on my daily trails. Yesterday I felt the "harshness" in that small bump compliance and the LSC that everyone talks about. While some say you can fix this to some extent with the above mentioned upgrades or going to an Avy cartridge or moving to the new PUSH HC97 replacement for the Charger setup, well that's just not really worth it to me.

    Been a Manitou fanboi for YEARS and been begging them to release a long travel 29er fork as the Tower Pro was always an incredible XC fork and the McLeod, oh the McLeod, has been an absolutely phenomenal shock for my trail bike. Now that they have "leaked" their new Mezzer, I will be holding on to my pennies for that thing! So far looks incredible with IVT, 37mm stanchions, possibly IVA and HBO, plus all their seal upgrades they have come along with from the Mattoc! Ooooooh babby!

  9. #9
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    I've gotta say I'm also not a big fan of Rockshox recent stuff. The only riding I have on their longer travel models is demo riding, but I owned a Bluto for a bit and it was never really right for me. It's no wonder people drop loads on aftermarket dampers and spring kits and whatnot for these.

    I am absolutely loving the MRP Ribbon on my Pedalhead, though.

    Based on your build details, it certainly doesn't sound cheap to improve on that 35lb weight.

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    I'm not entirely convinced the bike weighs what you think it weighs, Greg.

    My alloy XM Smash weighed 31.6 with no carbon, Deluxe RT, and Fox 34 PLUS. That was also with more trail oriented tires.

    Lets say your coil adds 450g, your fork 200g, and your tires another 400g, that's about 1000g.

    That's 31.6+2.2 = 33.8

    It's AT LEAST 1LBS LIGHTER than you think it is.

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    And now time for the piktors!!

    Everyone loves NEW SHIRT DAY!!!

    Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr
    When GG first unveiled its new carbon main frame I questioned the "captured" or filled-in seattube/toptube triangle junction as perhaps looking cheapish but it's grown on me and now I feel it not only looks good, it also looks right: well engineered & strong. Your bike looks great, Greg.

    Do I see a stack of pancakes holding up a big ol' dollop of butter atop the plastic toolbox on the RH end of your workbench? Yum!

    Have fun riding!
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  12. #12
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    haha sander discs = pancakes with butter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post
    haha sander discs = pancakes with butter.
    This.... set of DA Polisher/Sander discs with one that for some reason decided to curl up and the white underside is showing. Still need to finish cut n buffing my paint job on my FJ60. Up until recently was too cold to want to go outside and do something like that for more than a few minutes.

    And still getting used to that filled in junction. Old bike had it and I constantly used it as a pickup point when moving the bike around. Kept grabbing at it to do the same only to smash my fingers in it. Now it is more of a pinch grip than a grab, still very functional though.

  14. #14
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    Bike looks great! Bet you cant wait for the high country to open up and hit those trails with it!
    Was checking out your FJ project too. Were you able to spray it right at home or was that just prep area?

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    Do you have any plans to buy the seat stay kit and run it as a Trail Pistol? I'm curious about how easy it actually is to do that conversion.

    I love my Trek Fuel EX, but I'm very tempted by the idea of having two bikes in one, USA made carbon, etc. Having a Trail Pistol for my local trails and then converting to a Smash for park riding sounds really attractive to me. Especially since I could buy the TP frame and move parts from my FEX over...
    Patrick

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    Quote Originally Posted by pjames12 View Post
    Do you have any plans to buy the seat stay kit and run it as a Trail Pistol? I'm curious about how easy it actually is to do that conversion.

    I love my Trek Fuel EX, but I'm very tempted by the idea of having two bikes in one, USA made carbon, etc. Having a Trail Pistol for my local trails and then converting to a Smash for park riding sounds really attractive to me. Especially since I could buy the TP frame and move parts from my FEX over...
    Dump the Fuel and get the Trail Pistol!

    I have a Shred Dogg frame coming to replace my aluminum Smash, tempted to get a TP frame for XC/light trail use.

    The stays ain't cheap, also gotta get a different shock/fork/lower cup, then it's all gotta be installed...

    The new TP is redesigned to be slacker, stiffer in the rear triangle, shorter chainstays, should be killer!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Dump the Fuel and get the Trail Pistol!

    I have a Shred Dogg frame coming to replace my aluminum Smash, tempted to get a TP frame for XC/light trail use.

    The stays ain't cheap, also gotta get a different shock/fork/lower cup, then it's all gotta be installed...

    The new TP is redesigned to be slacker, stiffer in the rear triangle, shorter chainstays, should be killer!
    Yeah, the only thing that has me hesitating (besides from an angry Mrs) is the seat angle honestly. Most of my local trails are super pedal-y and flat. The more traditional seat angle on the FEX puts me in a super comfy position for riding that sort of stuff. I demo'd some steeper seat tube angle bikes (like the Kona Satori) and found it a bit uncomfortable for that type of stuff. Probably something I'd get used to though.
    Patrick

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    Bike looks great! Bet you cant wait for the high country to open up and hit those trails with it!
    Was checking out your FJ project too. Were you able to spray it right at home or was that just prep area?
    Yeah I sprayed in my driveway. Did all the prep and everything between the garage and driveway. Luckily it wasn't overly windy, just a nice breeze, so spraying did not have the paint going all over the place. Got some touch-up that I have to do in a few areas this year when I get some time but other than that was a neat little project, and dear lord does PREP matter so SOOOOO much.

    Quote Originally Posted by pjames12 View Post
    Yeah, the only thing that has me hesitating (besides from an angry Mrs) is the seat angle honestly. Most of my local trails are super pedal-y and flat. The more traditional seat angle on the FEX puts me in a super comfy position for riding that sort of stuff. I demo'd some steeper seat tube angle bikes (like the Kona Satori) and found it a bit uncomfortable for that type of stuff. Probably something I'd get used to though.
    See I thought the same thing too but then got to ride it a bit more. Just like any bike geometry changes, it just takes some time to get used to everything. Really that becomes the extent of what you have to do, real learn your body on where things are in space and make minor adjustments.

    No inclination to purchase conversion kit for the TP as that would be moving backwards to what I was previously riding and I decided that I want more travel, just a bit, not much though. Ultimately, the bike is very much suited for the riding that I do, I did test out a similar bike to the TP last year, the Pivot Trail429 and really found that bike underwhelming for the price and the ride for my terrain was at the limit of what it could do. Sure I could push a little hard and clean up my game but then it would not be suited for my bigger rides that really due necessitate more travel.

  19. #19
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    If the steeper angles scare you off you can always run an offset post.

    Thats what I do, along with Vikb.

    I was worried that steeper STA would be uncomfortable, but I ended up running my saddle slid forward with a 50mm stem on an Extra Medium Smash, which is equivalent to a Revved Trail Pistol Size 3 Long.

    On my new Revved Trail Pistol (can I call it the RTP?) I'll be running the same exact setup. May run a shorter stem and slide the saddle back, may run more spacers or higher rise bar to lift the stem higher. We'll see.

    Funny that I went that opposite direction of most GG owners that are moving to the carbon frames. I decided that I wasn't using the travel on my Smash efficiently, so rather than more travel with a "meh" shock I decided to try less travel (Trail Pistol) with a better shock (Avy coil.) If I start bouncing it off the bumper then I'll know I made the wrong decision, haha!
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    Honestly, when I first rode the Aluminum Smash last year that was the first thing I noticed right away, but seriously after a couple of miles of riding, it just melted away and the bike was just "there."

    Don't let the steeper STA scare you, really many bikes these days, regardless of travel, will be moving that direction.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    Yeah I sprayed in my driveway. Did all the prep and everything between the garage and driveway. Luckily it wasn't overly windy, just a nice breeze, so spraying did not have the paint going all over the place. Got some touch-up that I have to do in a few areas this year when I get some time but other than that was a neat little project, and dear lord does PREP matter so SOOOOO much.
    Cant get away with doing that procedure over on our side of the CA/Nev side of the border!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    Cant get away with doing that procedure over on our side of the CA/Nev side of the border!
    Oh yeah I get that... I actually used to work for a company, many moons ago, that tracked VOC compliance for paint shops for the state of komifornia. Talk about some stupid isht. Anyways, was fun to be able to do it, probably will never do again though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pjames12 View Post
    Yeah, the only thing that has me hesitating (besides from an angry Mrs) is the seat angle honestly. Most of my local trails are super pedal-y and flat. The more traditional seat angle on the FEX puts me in a super comfy position for riding that sort of stuff. I demo'd some steeper seat tube angle bikes (like the Kona Satori) and found it a bit uncomfortable for that type of stuff. Probably something I'd get used to though.
    Steeper HTA is not a bad thing really, just need to adjust otehr things so the reach and cockpit feel normal. The nice thing, and what is a really great selling point, is the 10mm adjustable TT. Seriously, this idea is golden, what other bike lets you change that aspect of your bike?

    Another mid travel option is to build a Pistola 130mm travel, but that may reduce tire clearance. You could get a Smash and run the shock with a spacer to reduce travel, but you'd have a long bike which would be less playful than a TP.

    Once I get my SD built, I'm gonna try some 29er wheels to see if I have room for anything taller ... hoping that a 29" wheel will fit in the 130mm setting.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Steeper HTA is not a bad thing really, just need to adjust otehr things so the reach and cockpit feel normal. The nice thing, and what is a really great selling point, is the 10mm adjustable TT. Seriously, this idea is golden, what other bike lets you change that aspect of your bike?

    Another mid travel option is to build a Pistola 130mm travel, but that may reduce tire clearance. You could get a Smash and run the shock with a spacer to reduce travel, but you'd have a long bike which would be less playful than a TP.

    Once I get my SD built, I'm gonna try some 29er wheels to see if I have room for anything taller ... hoping that a 29" wheel will fit in the 130mm setting.
    Getting a bit off topic here, but according to this thread the Pistola setup is an option, with TP seat stays and a 210x55mm shock:

    https://forums.mtbr.com/guerrilla-gr...a-1096908.html

    That might be the sweet spot for me. 150/130 bike with 426 chainstays. Playful enough to still have fun on my local terrain and enough travel to do some light park riding (with always the option to later get the Smash stays and a coil shock). Decisions...
    Patrick

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Steeper HTA is not a bad thing really, just need to adjust otehr things so the reach and cockpit feel normal. The nice thing, and what is a really great selling point, is the 10mm adjustable TT. Seriously, this idea is golden, what other bike lets you change that aspect of your bike?

    Another mid travel option is to build a Pistola 130mm travel, but that may reduce tire clearance. You could get a Smash and run the shock with a spacer to reduce travel, but you'd have a long bike which would be less playful than a TP.

    Once I get my SD built, I'm gonna try some 29er wheels to see if I have room for anything taller ... hoping that a 29" wheel will fit in the 130mm setting.
    Actually watching some of the Sea Otter 2019 videos NS Bikes released a new carbon bike that does something similar.
    The Define comes in two styles 130 and 150, via a flip chip similar to GG the reach can be adjusted by 10mm and I thought I heard in the video that they are offering a seatstay kit that will adjust between the 130 travel and 150 travel out back. Its an interesting comparison between the two bikes and actually I had been looking at the NS Snabb Plus 150 in 29er shoes before I found the GG Smash.

  26. #26
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    Actually I think in the case of the NS Define, the shock and lower shock mount are changed to adjust travel. I wish GG's seat stays were that easy (and cheap).
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    Ok that makes sense. Wonder if this is going to be something the industry picks up and starts moving forward with?! Seems like it would be an easy addition to carbon frames, while new tooling costs with major redesigns it should not be an issue.

    On to something else though.... her name...
    Much like with vehicles, I have to come up with a name for a bike. The bikes that I have are PPE or Pepe (Purple People Eater) my On-One Inbred hardtail, Betty my Hammerhead Thumper trail slayer and now the GG Smash. I have been trying to come up with a name for her and the only name that seems to be rattling around in my head that makes sense is Maddy.
    The Smash kinda reminds me of Maddy Forberg, who is an olympic powerlift. I think she is a short, cute, brick shithouse of a woman but then again she is the type of girl I like (damn those legs!!!) and one that probably hits way above her weight, kinda like the Smash. Anyways, think that is going to be her name from now on unless I have some random epiphany that changes her name.

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    LOL... that's too funny dude! Maddy has pretty much stuck though.

  30. #30
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    How the flex on the new smash?

    Ibis folks seem to test frame flex at Sea Otter:
    https://youtu.be/MkwCg1OF66Y?t=872
    Ride, Enjoy...Repeat.

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    Been riding it pretty hard last couple weeks in some seriously chunky terrain and if there is any frame "flex" it is not something that I have noticed during my riding....

    There will always be a small amount of flex in everything so as long as it is not an inordinate amount all should be good.

    Another ride last night on a different type of trail. This is a 6.5 mile out to a point and then return. However, for our area this is a more flowy type trail trail with little "technical" riding other than a few rocky sections. Nothing like what I have a close to my house or the "suspension tuner" trail that is out east of town.

    On the fast flowy stuff, well Maddy did awesome. Still getting used to the fact that on tighter turns she likes a bit more body english to turn than just straight turning. This could be due to the 51mm offset fork, or the fact that I am still running the setup in the LONG mode instead of short. Don't take this as the steering is slow or anything like that, because it is not. Rather more input is needed for full commit vs. just straight turning the wheel, actually I feel like she does better at turning when you lean her over vs. turning the wheel regardless of speed.

    On this trail there are some good sections where you can open it up and let the bike run and RUN she did!! I thought my old bike was fast, but holy crap this is the next level!!!! On the section that we did, which we normally do this time of year and then later in the year due to it being mainly exposed and south/east facing (making it hotter than balls during the warm months as well as dry, loose and dusty) so it has a few rides at the beginning and end of the year before it is abandoned for cooler trails. Well, I got a total of 9 medals on Strava with I think 4 new PRs, some climbing and some descending. Seeing as I have only been riding this bike for a couple weeks and have not gotten myself into full riding shape yet just goes to show how good this bike is.

  32. #32
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    So earlier this week I got a long ride on the Smash, total of 17 miles. This includes lots of climbing both switchbacks and just straight road climbs, and about a good 30 minute descent through a variety of terrain.

    Climbing:
    Once again, I cannot explain how well this bike climbs for a 35# bike. I honestly do not even notice the weight and coming from a 1x10 (34t - 11/42) to an eagle setup (32t - 11/50) I must say that I rarely use the 50t gear. Most of my climbing is spent in the 42t or 36t as that always seems like a good balance of push but not a huge amount of effort. On the switchback, you will notice the length on the tighter ones but I noticed that with my old trailbike as well. It turns quite easily and well, just requires a bit more body english and lean than straight turning the bike. I cannot tell other users this enough, turning the bike is all about leaning it and throwing the bike around vs. "steering" the bike through turning of the handlebars. During these climbs I never felt a need to lock the suspension out, remember I am running a SD Coil with a 400# spring, as while I would bob when hitting a large rut other than that there was no discernible pedal bob even getting out of the saddle (at least for me). On looser climbs I would occasionally lose traction in the rear but I believe that comes down to relearning to adjust my weight balance for the bike and the current rear tire which is a Maxxis Aggressor EXO 2.3.

    Descending:
    Smooth, Fast, Flowy sections
    - This thing LOVES fast and flowy stuff. She will cut through the trail like a knife with great input response. But as stated, I am relearning the bike as she does require more body input to really carve the corners and slice through the singletrack. As the sticker says, "I Like Goin' Fast" is an understatement. If you let off the brakes she will just RUN and RUN and take you to the limit of what you are comfortable with and then beg for more. In those areas that you need a bit more pedaling input, for me, she does not bob or feel unbalanced. I rarely feel like I am "on top" of the bike, rather I feel in the bike but not deep into it, just in that right balance where throwing body weight around does make a difference. I can't wait to see what she feels like when I have a better fork, currently running the base level Yari RC w/ the MoCo damper. I can echo all the reports out there that for a less aggressive rider on buff singletrack this would be a great fork and damper. But as soon as you throw some chunk in there or start asking more of the LSC side of things, it will get overwhelmed quickly and become harsh, spikey and pack up regardless of the amount of tweaking you do.

    Technical sections
    - Luckily I live in an area that has a large variety of trail terrain within a short distance. I can go to one side of town and have a technical, chundery mess of a trail that will give your suspension fits, but then go to the other side of town and have buff, flowing singletrack that is a high speed dream. Going through this technical chunk has been a challenge currently as I am still working things out with the bike and tuning the setup. Firstly, the Yari RC damper (Motion Control = MoCo) IS NOT setup for something like this. Once you start asking for the damper to absorb and deal with any trail chatter it becomes spikey, harsh and just plain does not want to play. For someone that is on the more aggressive side of trail riding (have not issues charging a rock garden, taking small drops or jumps, etc.) the damper gets overwhelmed quickly and begins to throw fits. My last ride I had a long 30 minute descent that had everything from buff sections of high speed flow, to rocky switchbacks to small rock rolls and technical terrain. What I found is that all but the larger hits that truly engage the HSC on the MoCo cause issue for the damper. The rear RS Super Deluxe (SD) Coil is a different story. It loves that terrain and since I am still working out how things work on this I have gone from it being super poppy and fun to having an absolute rattle fest. This is my first coil so it is just taking some tweaking to figure out where I am at.
    Current settings for the SD Coil are:
    - 400# spring
    - LSC 4 clicks
    - Rebound 11 clicks
    - Preload is set to 20mm (measuring distance from top cap to screw down head. This is about 5 full turns past the point where the spring is no longer "loose" on the shock.)
    The preload of the spring matching the LSC and rebound settings is where I am still tweaking as I figure out how each affects the ride of the bike. I know that preload should be as minimal as possible, only having enough turns to keep the spring itself from rattling on the shock. However, even when what I would deem as extremely tight I can still get the spring to shift slightly in the shock with enough force. Again, I believe I am overthinking this but I am one of those people that needs to understand the process and mechanics before it will finally "click".

    All in all I have been having an ABSOLUTE blast on this bike. With a total of 83 miles and only 7 rides on the bike I know that I will have a bit more tweaking to do as I get to know it better. BUT this thing ABSOLUTELY SHREDS!!! Even with a low end build kit on it, I am utterly impressed with everything on the bike, the way it feels, rides, pedals, climbs, begs for more speed, gobbles up chunder and just is an absolute blast to ride. GG was awesome through the entire process, while waiting a few extra weeks definitely sucked as I wanted my new toy NOW, the wait was more than well worth it and I cannot wait to shred on this thing for years to come.

    I have two trips planned this year that will involve some big riding that the bike is coming (Maddy is her name); one in Park City, UT and one in Steamboat Springs, CO. While I have ridden in the Boat for many years and love the riding I am hoping that I get a chance to run down to Denver at some point and meet the GG crew! The Park City trip will be epic as well and look forward to shredding some of that terrain as soon as possible. In mean time, as the weather permits, Maddy will be slaying some of my local Lake Tahoe trail and may make a trip out to Auburn, Chico, Downieville, Quincy in the near future as well.

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    The preload piece doesn't make any sense to me. 20mm that's almost an inch. What's your sag with that much preload and how does small bump feel?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cassieno View Post
    The preload piece doesn't make any sense to me. 20mm that's almost an inch. What's your sag with that much preload and how does small bump feel?
    Yeah I am still messing with it as it does not feel right. Gets into the midstroke pretty easily but for the most part the "supple" off the top is lacking. I reduced it some last night, maybe two turns so I would need to remeasure what I am at. Even still I think I may drop it more, this is the "tuning" phase of things.

    Sag with the 20mm of preload was right at the 25% line, but as many have said, the SAG measurement is really just a base starting point, from there you need to really play with it and not worry so much about that measurement. Nurse_Ben keeps telling me I need to drop the fork PSI more (currently running either 80 or 85psi) and for the most part the fork is good. Again, SAG was that base measurement to get things started and then I am messing with the other controls (LSC, HSC, rebound, and the Ramp Control).

    Also, in last nights right I reduced the shocks LSC by one click. Don't know if I mentioned it or not but borrowing, with possible intent to purchase, Ben's old Lyrik RC2 with the MRP Ramp Control which is actually a 42mm offset fork. Has changed how the bike handles slightly but nothing that couple rides won't alleviate. Have two rides on the Lyrik so I am still messing with the settings on that.
    Current Lyrik settings are;
    - 160mm travel
    - LSC 1 click
    - HSC 3 clicks
    - Rebound -9 clicks from full close (full turtle)
    - Ramp control is at 4 clicks of progression (I think, need to double check)
    - 80-85PSI in the air chamber (will check this tonight and drop another 5psi to test)

    Like I said, still tuning things to get the right feel. The coil is still new to me so figuring stuff out as I go and how the different settings affect my normal rides. All in the fun of tweaking!

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    I would drop preload on the coil to just snug (1 to 2 turns). Measure sag there. And then if you keep blowing through travel maybe consider a stiffer spring.

    I have a 500 pound spring on my Aluminum Smash and I weigh 195 geared up. That gives me slightly less than 30% sag and tons of mid-stroke.

    In general I prefer Crush with a coil because of what you described, seemed a little easy to get into the mid stroke. I am experimenting with Plush with air and it seems pretty good (deluxe RT 180 psi with 2 volume spacers)

    The small bump is really really good

    Little_twin runs the Lyric rc with MRP ramp control on his Trail Pistol and it really is a great fork. So smooth feeling.

    Did the front wheel feel a little vague with the 51 and does it feel a little less vague with the 42?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cassieno View Post
    I would drop preload on the coil to just snug (1 to 2 turns). Measure sag there. And then if you keep blowing through travel maybe consider a stiffer spring.

    I have a 500 pound spring on my Aluminum Smash and I weigh 195 geared up. That gives me slightly less than 30% sag and tons of mid-stroke.

    In general I prefer Crush with a coil because of what you described, seemed a little easy to get into the mid stroke. I am experimenting with Plush with air and it seems pretty good (deluxe RT 180 psi with 2 volume spacers)

    The small bump is really really good

    Little_twin runs the Lyric rc with MRP ramp control on his Trail Pistol and it really is a great fork. So smooth feeling.

    Did the front wheel feel a little vague with the 51 and does it feel a little less vague with the 42?
    Yeah there is still some tinkering to do, but that is part of the fun and why I wanted the bike months in advance before my race (Capital City Offroad by Epic Rides) so that way I had time to make the tweaks necessary. See I am 180-185# out of the shower and normally ride with an EVOC 3L hip pack with bladder. So with full kit I am probably right about the 190# mark. The 400# spring may be too much for me but with how cheap springs are I can probably play with them a bit and grab a 350# and 450-500# spring. I will mess with the preload first, when I demo'd Scott2MTBs smash last year he was running the same shock with a 400# spring and was at about 15mm of preload, so I had originally started what I thought was there but could have measured wrong.

    I got plenty of ride time to keep tweaking a bit and I will until I find that settings that I like most. For the fork at this point is figuring out how the Ramp Control changes the feel once I get the LSC/HSC/Rebound dialed in.

    I dont know that the front wheel felt vague, the reason for the fork was was the damper in the Yari. Just so happened that the Lyrik was a shorter offset. Otherwise I would have grabbed a Charger 2 damper and dropped it in the Yari. Both forks are plenty stiff and track nicely. No real "vagueness" in the steering, just that the 51mm felt to me like it needed more steering input (aka body english) to do the same type of stuff in certain areas. Neither is bad, just different.

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    Should be fun 😁

    MRP ramp control and HSC vaguely do similar things except the ramp control is speed AND position sensitive and HSC is just speed sensitive.

    I would call MRP and ask them how the recommend setting them up to play nice together.

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    So first real bummer about the bike. Been doing lots of riding, over 200 miles on it already and loving it. Still messing with the Lyrik to find the right settings but getting there.

    With all the weather the rocks have been getting knocked loose in some sections. Heard a couple good hits on my last ride and when I went to clean the bike I found the following. Already talked with GG and they are sure they are superficial. Gonna be building myself one of those kydex frame guards.


  39. #39
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    Meh, just a flesh wound!

    Kydex is probably a good solution in the BB area due to its ability to cover the whole space.

    Kinda sucks we can't bolt it on, however, the double sided tape application method might also allow some shock absorption.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post
    Meh, just a flesh wound!

    Kydex is probably a good solution in the BB area due to its ability to cover the whole space.

    Kinda sucks we can't bolt it on, however, the double sided tape application method might also allow some shock absorption.
    Yeah but when you are petting and cleaning your new pretty and find those, well that is like the first couple rock chips on a brand new expensive car!! Pretty sure anyone on the mountain when it happened heard me cuss.

    As you can see in the last pic, the small black pad did take a good hit but you can feel it in just the rubber padding. Hopefully GG will "upgrade" that coverage to go over the entire BB area. They did send me some information on taking care of it, basically clear nail polish will work or they let me know the color and mfgr of the powdercoat and said they do make touch-up pens. Probably just start with the nail polish since that is easy and accessible.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    Yeah but when you are petting and cleaning your new pretty and find those, well that is like the first couple rock chips on a brand new expensive car!! Pretty sure anyone on the mountain when it happened heard me cuss.

    As you can see in the last pic, the small black pad did take a good hit but you can feel it in just the rubber padding. Hopefully GG will "upgrade" that coverage to go over the entire BB area. They did send me some information on taking care of it, basically clear nail polish will work or they let me know the color and mfgr of the powdercoat and said they do make touch-up pens. Probably just start with the nail polish since that is easy and accessible.
    At least you can do that paint touch up safely in the confines of your garage instead of out in the elements like with the FJ😁

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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    At least you can do that paint touch up safely in the confines of your garage instead of out in the elements like with the FJ
    BLASPHEMY!!!! It is a Cruiser or a 60... the FJ was a bastardization of the Land Cruiser NAMESAKE!!!

    Very true.. kydex sheets should be here tomorrow so will have a fun little project for the weekend.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    BLASPHEMY!!!! It is a Cruiser or a 60... the FJ was a bastardization of the Land Cruiser NAMESAKE!!!

    Very true.. kydex sheets should be here tomorrow so will have a fun little project for the weekend.
    Geeeszch, it's not like I said "Jeep"! 🙄

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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    Geeeszch, it's not like I said "Jeep"!

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    kydex sheets should be here tomorrow so will have a fun little project for the weekend.
    I'm interested to see how you fasten them. I was thinking of securing mine with double sided acrylic emblem tape to the existing shelter tape piece, but forming the kydex to more fully wrap the BB area.

    My main worry with Kydex is not its protection abilities, but more how to secure it to the bike without messing up the paint. I saw one guy wrap the bike in helicopter tape, then zip the formed Kydex to that. Not sure I want to use Zipties.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post
    I'm interested to see how you fasten them. I was thinking of securing mine with double sided acrylic emblem tape to the existing shelter tape piece, but forming the kydex to more fully wrap the BB area.

    My main worry with Kydex is not its protection abilities, but more how to secure it to the bike without messing up the paint. I saw one guy wrap the bike in helicopter tape, then zip the formed Kydex to that. Not sure I want to use Zipties.
    Yah I am thinking double stick tape on top of the shelter tape. Will try to figure it out once I get the sheets. The one that I have seen just used double stick tape. Was also thinking of getting some of the double sided pull tabs used on the 3M hangers.

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    Just went through and realized that I never updated the thread with actual weight. Couple weeks back I stopped by a buddies house to show bike to him and use his bike scale. At the time this was with the Yari on (right after I grabbed Lyrik from Ben) so weight probably hasn't changed much, if at all...

    So setup is/was:
    - Yari RC 150mm fork (now Lyrik RC Charger 160mm w/ MRP Ramp Control)
    - Standard Ride 2 Build
    - RS Super Deluxe Coil w/ 400# spring
    - Sensus Meaty Paw Grips
    - OneUP bashguide
    - Spank headset spacers (purple to match lock grips)
    - Gnar Fender
    - Vittoria Goma 2.4 TNT up front
    - NUTS strap with spare tube, two CO2 cylinders and head, and two Pedros levers
    - Zefal water side load bottle cage

    All in she came to 37.06#

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    It's the underside of the BB and you don't ever see that anyway (unless you can backflip). Put some black velcro tape down (female loop side) over the rest of the exposed areas and you're good to go. I also do that for the chainstay if there are any further unprotected areas outside of the stock rubber/plastic guard. Trick I learned from pro rider Evan Turpen, works great and doesn't hold mud like you think it would! You won't even know it's there.

    Have FUN!

    G MAN
    "There's two shuttles, one to the top and one to the hospital" I LOVE this place!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gman086 View Post
    It's the underside of the BB and you don't ever see that anyway (unless you can backflip). Put some black velcro tape down (female loop side) over the rest of the exposed areas and you're good to go. I also do that for the chainstay if there are any further unprotected areas outside of the stock rubber/plastic guard. Trick I learned from pro rider Evan Turpen, works great and doesn't hold mud like you think it would! You won't even know it's there.

    Have FUN!

    G MAN
    Interesting... I would figure that the velcro would tend to hold onto mud and muck and whatnot. Since it is a carbon frame I would like to protect that area more than what the velcro would do from impact protects simply because of the area I ride in. Hence moving towards the harder protection of the Kydex.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    Interesting... I would figure that the velcro would tend to hold onto mud and muck and whatnot. Since it is a carbon frame I would like to protect that area more than what the velcro would do from impact protects simply because of the area I ride in. Hence moving towards the harder protection of the Kydex.
    The carbon composite itself is stronger than any other known material from an impact standpoint (I'm a supplier to that industry) so... no, you aren't trying to protect from impacts at that area. You are simply trying to protect the paint from chipping/scraping off and subsequent scratching of the composite on repeated hits. The velcro (FEMALE LOOP SIDE) actually is rather slippery and helps with rock glances like you won't believe. That's exactly why the pros use it. In fact Kydex or any harder material could hang up on rocks more tho I'm sure it will protect your paint equally as well.

    Have FUN!

    G MAN
    Last edited by Gman086; 06-05-2019 at 07:29 PM.
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  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    I wanted the bike months in advance before my race (Capital City Offroad by Epic Rides)
    Looks like a cool event and beautiful ride!! Have you done it before, which one you doing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtbkenny View Post
    Looks like a cool event and beautiful ride!! Have you done it before, which one you doing?
    Yes I have done before... This is actually the 4th year of the event and last year was my first year riding it. Only done the Fun 15 (more like 17) ride on opening day, had planned to do the 35 this year but a buddy wanted to do the ride as well but is new to racing so we are both doing the 15. Great course, fun event with lots going on all weekend. New reroutes this year do to snowpack should be interesting and fun.

    Best thing is that start line is literally 6 blocks from my house so I can run down to the event whenever I want. Next year will plan to do the 35, talked with friends that have done the 50 and while it is a great race, 50 miles is just well... allot. Especially when you are attempting to do at race pace. My time last year was just under 1hr 50mins. and I rode the proposed course (slight changes from last year) last Friday with a time of 1hr 58mins. So I am just about there fitness-wise and probably about 5-10#s heavier myself than last year (think I was like 175# race day and at about 183# currently).

    For those interested - Epic Rides Capital City Off Road

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    Yes I have done before... This is actually the 4th year of the event and last year was my first year riding it. Only done the Fun 15 (more like 17) ride on opening day, had planned to do the 35 this year but a buddy wanted to do the ride as well but is new to racing so we are both doing the 15. Great course, fun event with lots going on all weekend. New reroutes this year do to snowpack should be interesting and fun.

    Best thing is that start line is literally 6 blocks from my house so I can run down to the event whenever I want. Next year will plan to do the 35, talked with friends that have done the 50 and while it is a great race, 50 miles is just well... allot. Especially when you are attempting to do at race pace. My time last year was just under 1hr 50mins. and I rode the proposed course (slight changes from last year) last Friday with a time of 1hr 58mins. So I am just about there fitness-wise and probably about 5-10#s heavier myself than last year (think I was like 175# race day and at about 183# currently).

    For those interested - Epic Rides Capital City Off Road
    I watched the video from that link you posted the other day, looks like an absolute blast of a weekend. Sounds like they set up a base camp/tenting area at the local park too making for a full fun weekend in addition to the race.

    I was reading someone else posting about a cool Iron horse bike race in Durango Colorado where you actually ride through the window and out the door of a local brewery. We need more cool stuff like this on the East coast!!

    That's nice you have such great riding close to town. Good luck with the race and training. Sounds like your about there fitness wise!

    On the longer events I read one article saying there are two races - the race for time and the race to hit the max cutoff times. Saying that a lot of the folks in the back are just out for fun and to finish. Have you seen that type of atmosphere or do you think it was all pretty competitive folks?

    I've never done any racing and not sure I'm really interested. But a fun day out on a marked course with aid stations and lots of friendly mountain bikers around does sound somewhat appealing, especially in a new/cool area.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtbkenny View Post
    I watched the video from that link you posted the other day, looks like an absolute blast of a weekend. Sounds like they set up a base camp/tenting area at the local park too making for a full fun weekend in addition to the race.

    I was reading someone else posting about a cool Iron horse bike race in Durango Colorado where you actually ride through the window and out the door of a local brewery. We need more cool stuff like this on the East coast!!

    That's nice you have such great riding close to town. Good luck with the race and training. Sounds like your about there fitness wise!

    On the longer events I read one article saying there are two races - the race for time and the race to hit the max cutoff times. Saying that a lot of the folks in the back are just out for fun and to finish. Have you seen that type of atmosphere or do you think it was all pretty competitive folks?

    I've never done any racing and not sure I'm really interested. But a fun day out on a marked course with aid stations and lots of friendly mountain bikers around does sound somewhat appealing, especially in a new/cool area.
    You know it really depends on the race. For instance, the CC Fun 15 has a 1hr cut-off time to the first (and only) aid station. For me, that road climb is the hardest part of the course and takes anywhere from 40-45 minutes depending on the day. Many people have complained that the Fun 15 is supposed to be just that, FUN so adding a cut-off time to it does not add to the fun factor. But, logistically and safety-wise I can understand as you don't want someone out on the trails HOURS after everyone else has finished however, many at the aid stations just let people keep going.

    For our race weekend, well we are all mtbr's so there are two things we really like getting some good dirt and beer. We have both right here so everyone is always having a good time and super supportive of each other. Have seen people stop and help others, regardless of their "position" or time in the race. The Pros are a bit different because they are out there for points and money, this is their job, so while the comradery is there, it is more of the competitive nature. Hell, last year the fast guy in the 35 mile race finished the course in under 3hrs, the next day the AVERAGE pro time for the 50 mile race was under 3hrs with the top pro coming in just over 2hrs.

    Every race is a bit different so really it will all depend on the race series and what your local community is like. We have a couple race series that are around us and local races as well so the community is pretty tight knit and knows who is out for blood and who is out for fun. Kinda like the smaller Crossfit competitions, usually the loudest cheers are not for those on the podium but rather for those that are out there giving it their all and still trailing behind everyone.

    Doing a race is an experience in and unto itself, so I highly recommend doing it at least once just to say you did and to get the experience. Look at the Fun 15 and look at the elevation map up to the first aid station, like I said, that is the "embrace the suck" portion of the ride!

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    Been fighting with the Lyrik RC 42mm trying to get it to feel "plush" like everyone claims these forks are. Mind you, I am in no way an RS/Fox fanboy or anything like that. Hate FOX with a passion from previous experiences with their staff/riders/bruhs and so regardless of how good their products are I cannot bring myself to spend money with them. RS has been good to me but they are another "juggernaut" company and really I like to support the little guys/underdogs where I can. Manitou had been my go to for years suspension wise, and their products never disappointed. I had been waiting for a long travel 29er fork for a few years but nothing was known to be available until the recent release of the Mezzer. Because of my last RS failure I ended up going with an SR Suntour Auron which was an awesome fork but is their "trail" fork so it really only went to 150mm travel and I was wanting 160mm.

    Anyways, got a good deal on a used Lyrik from a local rider and kept fighting with it to get that "plush" feeling. Wasn't as spikey/harsh as the Yari w/ MoCo but still just did not feel great. So last week I finally brokedown and purchased stuff to do a lower leg service. Went with the PUSH Industries wiper kit and decided to install on Friday. The day before I had done a ride and while I was getting closer to a better setting with the fork, it still just could not hold a candle to my Auron which has been incredible. I am literally at the point where if this doesn't work out then I will be selling the Lyrik and buying a SR Suntour Durolux.

    So the ride was decent on Thursday, Friday I spent the hour or so to clean up the fork and change the wipers, foam rings, etc. that comes in the kit. Glad I did, thinking back I have about 250 miles on the Lyrik, normal 10 mile ride takes me about an hour, so that is approximately 25hrs of riding right there. Person I got the fork from had it for at least one full season with LOTS of miles on it and does not believe he ever had a service done to it. So when I pulled it apart it was apparent.

    - Lower Leg oil was dark and nasty looking
    - DebonAir spring grease was old, chunky and hard in some spots and there was WAY too much inside
    - Foam rings were nasty and dingy/dirty but otherwise in good shape
    - Wiper seals were definitely nasty but no chips or chunks taken out of rubber. Felt a bit "gritty" to me (not the right word but didnt feel smooth)

    The PUSH wipers have a definite oily sheen to them and feel somewhat slippery in the hands but no film is left on your fingers. The pack comes with new crush washers (which I didn't use as mine were in good shape), new o-ring that I assume is for the top cap (didn't use) and foam rings. These foam rings were the only gripe of the kit as they felt small and flimsy, and proved to be so when I attempted to put the lowers back on as they easily ripped. Thankfully I had kept the old RS foam rings handy, so I just cleaned them up as best I could, soaked in oil and installed. There was a considerable side different and density difference between the two but initially the PUSH seemed to fit just right, not sure what happened where.

    Wipers, legs were greased well to ensure everything slipped together as nicely as possible and first ride was Sunday. The new seals did make a difference in initial plushness found in small rock hits and trail chatter. Think now that things have changed I need to mess with my settings more but it seems to have helped, not necessarily alleviated the issue at this point (wondering if I should bleed the charger damper) but it is definitely better. Tonight I will be riding a longer route that I found major issue with last time, so we will see if things change at all.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    You know it really depends on the race. For instance, the CC Fun 15 has a 1hr cut-off time to the first (and only) aid station. For me, that road climb is the hardest part of the course and takes anywhere from 40-45 minutes depending on the day. Many people have complained that the Fun 15 is supposed to be just that, FUN so adding a cut-off time to it does not add to the fun factor. But, logistically and safety-wise I can understand as you don't want someone out on the trails HOURS after everyone else has finished however, many at the aid stations just let people keep going.

    For our race weekend, well we are all mtbr's so there are two things we really like getting some good dirt and beer. We have both right here so everyone is always having a good time and super supportive of each other. Have seen people stop and help others, regardless of their "position" or time in the race. The Pros are a bit different because they are out there for points and money, this is their job, so while the comradery is there, it is more of the competitive nature. Hell, last year the fast guy in the 35 mile race finished the course in under 3hrs, the next day the AVERAGE pro time for the 50 mile race was under 3hrs with the top pro coming in just over 2hrs.

    Every race is a bit different so really it will all depend on the race series and what your local community is like. We have a couple race series that are around us and local races as well so the community is pretty tight knit and knows who is out for blood and who is out for fun. Kinda like the smaller Crossfit competitions, usually the loudest cheers are not for those on the podium but rather for those that are out there giving it their all and still trailing behind everyone.

    Doing a race is an experience in and unto itself, so I highly recommend doing it at least once just to say you did and to get the experience. Look at the Fun 15 and look at the elevation map up to the first aid station, like I said, that is the "embrace the suck" portion of the ride!
    Sounds like a fun atmosphere for sure. Thanks for the info, not sure any racing is in my future but never know. Could be fun to try for a change of pace; probably not this season though.

    I do have a fun ride planned in the fall put on by our local trail group as a fundraiser. It's a "guided ride" so it's un timed but they have it marked, aid stations, fun after party, etc. like a race would have.. Typically turn out between 800-1000 riders depending on Weather in distances from 15 all the way to 75 miles.

    Also out of curiosity as I'm relitivley new here do people typically post "build threads" more here in the 29er section or brand specific or both I assume?

    Thought it may be fun to have thread/discussion as I transition from Rigid SS to 1X12 Full squish for asking questions, learning more about the shocks and all that. Of course the brand specific boards would know more on Frame but get less readership, seems like a lot of the stuff (GX, fox, et all) are similar among-st all brands so thought I'd maybe start one here.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtbkenny View Post
    Sounds like a fun atmosphere for sure. Thanks for the info, not sure any racing is in my future but never know. Could be fun to try for a change of pace; probably not this season though.

    I do have a fun ride planned in the fall put on by our local trail group as a fundraiser. It's a "guided ride" so it's un timed but they have it marked, aid stations, fun after party, etc. like a race would have.. Typically turn out between 800-1000 riders depending on Weather in distances from 15 all the way to 75 miles.

    Also out of curiosity as I'm relitivley new here do people typically post "build threads" more here in the 29er section or brand specific or both I assume?

    Thought it may be fun to have thread/discussion as I transition from Rigid SS to 1X12 Full squish for asking questions, learning more about the shocks and all that. Of course the brand specific boards would know more on Frame but get less readership, seems like a lot of the stuff (GX, fox, et all) are similar among-st all brands so thought I'd maybe start one here.
    I have always posted my build threads here and then added supplemental information in the specific mfg. forums. I have found that if I am looking for specific information on a frame then the mfg. is best for that as they usually have a rep. of one sort or another on the forum. Outside that, questions go to direct threads.

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    So last nights ride was good. Fork definitely felt better, stopped on part of the descent to dial in some more LSC as my hands were getting fatigued from the successive hits on the trail. One thing that we DO NOT lack here in Carson City, NV is trail chatter and tech, lots and lots and lots of rocks of varying sizes and shapes and frequency going down the trail.

    I did find that with these new adjustments I am still riding high in my travel however I am using a good 80% of my travel on most hits. I never bottomed out but I do have a couple larger jumps/drops that I hit and used almost all the travel (maybe 98%). So I think my PSI, Rebound, HSC and Ramp Control are fine. I did end up upping my PSI from 75psi to 80psi so this could also be part of why my hands were getting fatigued. But yesterday was day 2 of riding, and I had done 15 miles the day before.

    One concerning thing that I have been noticing over the last couple weeks is some perineal numbness. I am using the same saddle that I have ridden for years on my old bike and slowly moving the saddle in as I dial in the fit. I think I still have another 1/4" to play with (believe my old setting was 17 1/8" or 17 3/8" nose to center of stem bolt) in saddle adjustment but seeing as I have never had this problem before it has me a bit concerned. Only really happen on the long extended climb I have been doing (3 miles before first stop at a decent pitch) and I know that my saddle is level as I just looked at it when I did my last adjustment.

    If that shit doesn't go away soon then looks like I am going to be getting a new "men's specific" saddle with the cut out. Funny thing is that I have talked with some riders that have newer bikes with steep seattube angles and they have complained of similar issues. Wondering if the new standard of steep seat tubes is causing something for mtbing?

  59. #59
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    Wouldn't surprise me.

    Also, a flat saddle isn't always ideal. I run my saddle nose down, just a hair, to put more of my weight on the wings of the saddle rather than the whole length of it.

    I've also found that a wider saddle does make a difference. I'm a wide dude in general (not just heavy, although that too), and I've been measured between 155 and 165 for sit bone width, multiple times. So I ride a 155 Phenom and a 155 Power and both are pretty comfy. I've SDG, WTB, and a host of other saddles in narrower widths and they were never as nice as my Phenom.

    I have a theory that your saddle should be pointed at your stem, and since most of us ride with our saddle higher than our stem, more of us should be running a slight "nose down" saddle. Not scientific, though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post
    Wouldn't surprise me.

    Also, a flat saddle isn't always ideal. I run my saddle nose down, just a hair, to put more of my weight on the wings of the saddle rather than the whole length of it.

    I've also found that a wider saddle does make a difference. I'm a wide dude in general (not just heavy, although that too), and I've been measured between 155 and 165 for sit bone width, multiple times. So I ride a 155 Phenom and a 155 Power and both are pretty comfy. I've SDG, WTB, and a host of other saddles in narrower widths and they were never as nice as my Phenom.

    I have a theory that your saddle should be pointed at your stem, and since most of us ride with our saddle higher than our stem, more of us should be running a slight "nose down" saddle. Not scientific, though.
    Interesting... never thought of that. I did have the saddle pointed down when I first noticed this going on, but that was more by accident than anything else. I have always run my saddles level and the saddle that I am currently using is actually the saddle from my Thumper which I have run for years (Charge Spoon/Fabric Scoop). I have a specialized dealer in town that I believe has a sitbone measuring thingy so I may stop by on the way home and measure to see what I come up with. My hips are not overly wide (wear 33 waist pant) so I doubt that I belong on a wider saddle. Just thing I may have it slightly too far back.

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    Last couple of rides I have been adjusting things. Still have a bit of numbness but not near as bad as it was. Did my research and really it can be related to saddle position, saddle height, saddle tilt, reach and bar height. So I am adjusting the things that I can.

    After doing a little testing I was finding that I always wanted to push myself back slightly on the saddle when riding but when I am on the road and want to ride without my hands on the bars I feel like the saddle is making me slide forward. This has led me to saddle position adjustments. From what I have written down on the Thumper my saddle distance from the center stem bolt was 17 5/8". However, that bike had a 67* HTA and reach was much shorter (along with shorter rear travel by 15mm). Since it was an older geo I am assuming that STA was probably in the 73* range (slacker) than the Smash (76.7*). So over the last week or so while I have been adjusting things for the numbness I have slowly pulled the saddle into what felt pretty good last night (for normal riding, climbing and for hands off bars street) at 17 1/8". I need to get out on a longer climb so I can truly test but other than that all things have stayed the same; same saddle height, same bar height, same saddle tilt/level.

    Anyways, outside of that I have been trying to dial that last bit of fit and feel for the suspension.
    Still battling slightly with the Lyrik but after doing the lower leg service and replacing the wipers with higher end wipers (went with PUSH wipers) things definitely feel smooth/better now. So that leaves dialing in the rebound and lsc/hsc adjustments. I have bumped the pressure up to 80psi and finding that I am using just about all of my travel in my normal ride routes (probably 90% on everything with the last 10% reserved for those much bigger hits).
    Because I have been doing this tuning I finally broke down and started a new note in my phone (which is always with me because of work related projects and just in general) and have found that these settings are what is currently working within a good "feel" range.

    Current suspension specs:
    - 160mm RS Lyrik RC with Charger 2 damper and MRP Ramp Control (lower leg service done on 6/6/19 with upgraded PUSH wipers)
    - 230x60mm RS Super Deluxe Coil w/ 400# RS spring
    - Bike set in PLUSH mode

    Settings as of 6/13/19:
    Rear
    - LSC 10 clicks from closed
    - RBD 7 clicks from closed
    - 14mm preload (measured with calipers from spring collar to inside edge where threads end into head)
    - Switch, always in party mode

    Front
    - HSC 3 clicks from closed
    - LSC 16 clicks from closed
    - RBD 11 clicks from closed
    - 80psi
    - Ramp Control 6 clicks

    Running these settings on my normal short track last night (10 miles approximately, 3.5 of which is road riding to TH and back). Resulted in the bike feeling very composed over just about everything. Never felt sketchy or anything that was more me last night due to legs being shot this week and having a headwind the entire time (what else is new for NV). However, the biggest thing I noticed was the feel the rear had over chunk. Before it felt good, but still a bit jittery and harsh when going down the couple of water falls we have or getting into a rock garden but last night just felt smooth and composed. Like it was eating up the terrain. Biggest thing I noticed was on the few jumps and lips we can pop off of, this thing actually felt poppy. I felt like I got more air on the larger jumps than I have before and it was much more effortless than in the past.

    There were a couple of times where I felt like the back end bucked a bit, so I may slow down the rebound a click but this is the best the rear end has felt to date.

    Front is feeling better but I am still trying to get it dialed to feel how I want it to over the chunk. On big hits it feels fine, like the small couple foot drops we have or the couple jumps that I actually take, so the mid travel and full travel feel is great. Now is just dialing the feel over small rock gardens, the couple waterfalls we have and stuff like that where the LSC comes more into play. Since the HSC, LSC and RBD all work together in some way/shape/form I need to be very conscious of the change that I make to see what else it affects.

    And since there has been a lack of pictures in the thread...
    Top of the Ash to Kings Connector trail.
    Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr
    Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr
    Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr

  62. #62
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    I haven't installed my Lyric yet and even when I do - it'll be with a Smashpot coil conversion - so I can't give you direct comparison & insights.

    But, I think you should consider sending the fork to a tuner and just get the damper the way you'd like. Maybe the Suntour stuff is real close to your preference from the box but that charger 2 should be pretty open for tune changes & a tuner who will walk you thru the process is invaluable. Your starting chassis is good.

    I like how you document it. Good reads.
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    Friday was a baaad ride and a good ride all in one. Have been dealing with this weird clicking sound that I sweat sounds like a momentary click where the drivetrain wants to shift. Got halfway up the long climb and started dicking with the shifting hoping to fix it.
    Well that didn't work out so well and ended up completely losing my tallest (50t) gear, so did the ride with only 11 gears.... LOL, still ended up getting a couple medals on strava so that was interesting.

    Had moved the saddle more forward to 17 1/4" and felt pretty good, numbness was much less but part of that could have also been that I had to stop halfway through my climb and spent 10 minutes dicking with the shifting. Then focused on suspension through the ride, my legs were toast by the end for sure as I think I did close to 80 miles this week, which has been the most thus far.

    Saturday morning I had a bit of time so I ran the bike up to my local shop to see what the hell I did for the shifting. Turns out that the derailleur itself was backing out and was unscrewed about 3 threads.. That could have made for a BAAADDDD day real quick. So now she is shifting all nice like.

    Starting talking with the owner about the numbness and he takes one look at my saddle and says "yeah that would be my problem right there. While it is a nice saddle that is just waaaayyy too curved for today's bikes." He had one of the Ergon machines so I measured my sit bones (12.5mm avg of 3 testings) so he hooked me up with one of the new Ergon SM Men's saddles. Quick spin around the lot with it on felt good but got a couple day demo of it to see how it feels compared.

    Basically, what he was saying is that with the new bikes geos he is find that lots of saddles that don't have as deep a cut-out for the soft tissue are starting to cause issues for some people (YEAH I'm a lucky one!!!?!). Main thing is to ensure that the saddle has a deep enough cut out for your soft tissue that is not just a small indention. Then from there to make sure that it is not overly curved vs. a little more flat-ish. The saddle that I have (Fabric Scoop Shallow) is definitely all of those things; curved, shallow channel, no flare at the end, etc. While it has worked beautifully on my other bikes, looks like I need something flatter now. While the SDG saddle that came with the bike was close to the Ergon the cut out for the soft tissue was definitely VERY shallow comparatively.

    Going to demo the Ergon tonight and see how it feels. If I don't like it then I can return and find something slightly different.

  64. #64
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    I'm a big fan of Specialized Body Geometry - I run a Phenom 155 for years.

    I recently picked up a cheap chinese version of the Specialized Power with a huge cutout. It's stiff on the sit bones, but no numbness.

    The new Phenom and Ergon both have pretty wide cutouts. You can try a Phenom out at your local Specialized dealer.

    Ergon's are wayyy cheaper than Specialized saddles, though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post
    I'm a big fan of Specialized Body Geometry - I run a Phenom 155 for years.

    I recently picked up a cheap chinese version of the Specialized Power with a huge cutout. It's stiff on the sit bones, but no numbness.

    The new Phenom and Ergon both have pretty wide cutouts. You can try a Phenom out at your local Specialized dealer.

    Ergon's are wayyy cheaper than Specialized saddles, though.
    Yeah my local Spesh shop is kinda a shit show. They dont have any "advanced" way of measuring sit bones, just a gel/memory foam pad that you sit on and they measure with a tape measure. Guy that is the manager handed me a couple saddles and said, these have worked for me and some of my customers, and that was really the extent of it. He did say that he has been doing road bike fittings for years and went on to show me their trainer and everything where they dial in the road bike, but no offer to throw me and the mtb on it. They are one of those shops that I stop at because it is on my way home and I grab small items from them. Otherwise they really don't do much for you if they don't know you. Not elitist roadies by any means but not trying to market themselves either.

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    So have taken the Ergon SM men's saddle on two good rides now. First was getting the fit right, which amazingly I had to bring the saddle all the way into 17" to get my sitbones in the proper location.

    First ride was short ride, with less climbing than the longer race route I have been doing. Only about 10 miles but the saddle wasn't bad for that short time, power output was good and was reasonably comfortable once I got my sitbones in the right location. That was Monday night.

    Last night my riding buddy bailed on me so I decided to go for a longer ride, doing the race route, which is normally 17 miles with LOTS of climbing in the beginning. Again, the position at 17" is perfect. The cut out can somewhat be felt but for the most part is pretty seamless. However, the saddle did not completely get rid of the perineal numbness. While GREATLY reduced from before hand on this route (usually by the time I hit the main kiosk I was completely numb, here I was just slightly) it was not all together gone. The worst part is that the SPORT version that I got really felt like I was sitting on a piece of wood. DAMN was that thing HARD feeling.

    Last night by sitbones were a bit sore after the 2hr ride and this morning they are a bit tender but not overly bad. Since I only have a couple days to demo I am going to return the saddle tonight, just too damn uncomfortable while riding. The other "ergonic" saddle that is out there is the SQ Labs saddles. I have been chatting with them via email with recommendations and I think I am going to give their SQ Labs 611 Non-Active S-wave saddle a try. While quite a bit more expensive than the Ergon, I tend to go on longer rides (upwards of 30 miles) on a regular basis and really don't know if I could complete something like that with lots of extended climbing on the Ergon saddle due to how hard it was. I spent some time reading through the ergonomics explained on the SQ Lab website yesterday and I am confident this will be a good fit for me.

  67. #67
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    My most comfortable saddle is a Selle Anatomica. It's good for an 18hr saddle day without any padded shorts. Obviously YMMV, but I know a lot of folks that swear by that saddle when comfort is a high priority.
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    Agree with Vik. Most comfortable is the Selle. I bought it based on his recommendation. They just released a rubber version of it. I use it on my trainer when I am sitting all the time with no real movement.

    On my hardtail I have an SQ Labs saddle (the cheapest one). It works well. Just did a 66 mile / 10k elevation race with it with no numbnes. However, on the trainer the SQ Lab saddle can hurt, which shows just how comfortable the Selle really is.

    I did the at home sit on cardboard measure sit bone width to find saddle size which worked for me.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by cassieno View Post
    Agree with Vik. Most comfortable is the Selle. I bought it based on his recommendation. They just released a rubber version of it. I use it on my trainer when I am sitting all the time with no real movement.

    I'm glad the SA is working for you.

    I didn't know about the rubber one. I'll have to check that out.
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  70. #70
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    Sit bone discomfort is annoying, but you do adjust.

    Numbness is more long lasting. I would try to find the saddle that eliminates any numbness first, and is comfortable second (although comfort certainly is important.)

    I'd love to try an SQLab Ergo saddle but they are too pricey and my weight too high to risk it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post
    Sit bone discomfort is annoying, but you do adjust.

    Numbness is more long lasting. I would try to find the saddle that eliminates any numbness first, and is comfortable second (although comfort certainly is important.)

    I'd love to try an SQLab Ergo saddle but they are too pricey and my weight too high to risk it.
    Right and that is what I am aiming for, getting rid of the numbness first then comfort after. Since the Ergon did not completely get rid of the numbness that is why I am returning.

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    Ended up finding a good deal on the SQ Lab 611 Ergowave (non-active) on Amazon last week so received the saddle on Saturday (actually wasn't expecting until today) and installed Saturday evening. Went for the first ride on it yesterday afternoon doing the normal race course that I have been using to test positions, angles, saddles, etc. on for the last few weeks. Short answer is, damn this is a nice saddle!

    While a little funky looking it definitely is a comfortable saddle. Did the normal 17 mile ride that has a good 4 miles of straight climbing before you start hitting the normal "trail sections" of ups and downs. This is just under 2 miles of straight pavement pounding with a steadily increasing incline up to where the pavement ends. Once you hit that point it turns into another 1.5 miles of dirt road climbing that got a bit washed out from the winter run off and has some pretty nasty ruts and whatnot. Usually by the time I hit the end of the pavement I start to feel a bit numb, by the time I hit the actual trailhead kiosk (the 1.5 climb) I am have normally been completely numb by that point.

    With the Ergon saddle it literally felt like I was sitting on a brick the entire time. This was on the Ergon SM Men's Sport saddle in the M/L size (based on sit bone width of 12.5cm). Supposedly the SM Race (I think) top tier saddle has a slightly softer foam but at $130ish I couldn't drop that kinda cash unless absolutely necessary. While the Ergon helped with the numbness, by the time I hit the kiosk it was not completely gone, still slightly there. Enough there to be somewhat annoying, but I may have been able to do away with by adjusting the saddle nose tilt some more. However, that was not the problem, the problem then became the fact that it literally felt like I had been sitting on a brick the entire ride. Like before I hit the end of the pavement my sit bones were already sore, and then the next day they were still sore. I think I put enough miles on my bike that I really should not have sit bone soreness unless something really weird is going on OR the saddle is just completely wrong for me. So I took the option to return it.

    Using the information I got from the Ergon saddle measurement I started looking at the SQ Lab saddles as they supposedly are the founder of the "ergonomic saddle" movement. On their main website they have all kinds of data and explanation of the saddle ergonomics and how they came about getting their design and whatnot (design actually came from a clinical doctor). Anyways, after spending hours of reading, looking over their fit guide, looking at the different saddles and the "genres" they are supposed to best fit I came to the determination that the 611 saddle was best. At that point I reached out to them with my sit bone measurement because going by their fit chart, for normal trail riding position you take your sit bone measurement and add 2cm, meaning I fell right between a 14cm and 15cm sized saddle. They were quick to get back to me and answered any questions I had about fit, sizing, positions, etc. that I could throw at them. If you have any concerns or just like researching stuff like I do I highly suggest spending some time on their explanations pages. I gained some good information on there and employed it with the new saddle.

    Anyways, after chatting with their rep and determining that the 611 would pretty much be the right saddle for me and their recommendation that with the type of riding I do I could "size down" since I was in-between saddle sizes I went with the 14cm size. From there it looks like for most of their models they have three (3) different options; standard, non-active and active. Biggest thing is that the ACTIVE version employs a different shell that allows for lateral flex of the saddle while riding. This is supposed to allow for a more natural "rocking" of the pelvic bones and spine while pedaling, thus relieving some stress and pain. The ACTIVE versions have three (3) different inserts that attach to the normal sit bone area underneath that give differing amounts of lateral flex. You can basically go from no insert for maximum flex to a stiff insert that minimizes the amount of flex.

    To add more selections to the list you then have the ability to chose between the ERGOLUX and ERGOWAVE version of some of the saddles. This comes down to the "shape" of the shell and how the saddle looks at its most basic level. If I remember correctly the ErgoLUX is your standard saddle shape that has a steady, straight-ish line from end to nose whereas the ErgoWAVE has a slight step in there. There is a whole explanation on the design but basically it supposed to help MORE with perineal numbness as the saddle steps down in that area simulating a saddle tiled downward, without the saddle actually being tilted downward.

    So I found a good deal on the Ergowave 611 non-active on Amazon and bit the bullet. $90 is more than I have spent on a saddle EVER, even the Ergon was only $65, and so I was praying this would work out. Well to say it paid off is an understatement. I setup the saddle in my measured position with the nose at a slightly level (very slight forward tilt) at 17" from nose to center of stem bolt (with dropper full extended). On the ride it took a bit to get used to the shape of the saddle as it is different than anything I have sat on before. It resembles a pingpong paddle almost with a thin but wide and long nose that opens up at the back quickly for the saddle face. At first this just felt odd sitting on, not uncomfortable but something that you "notice" there is a saddle there. But by the time I was seven (7) miles into the ride I completely forgot about the saddle as it was just THERE. During the long climb I did not experience an sit bone discomfort, again I could feel the saddle but it was just there, and there was zero numbness (YEAH!). Transitioning from fully back to a forward position on the nose was actually quite comfortable with the wide nose and did not cause any weird pressure points or anything.

    When I got done with the entire ride and had gotten home I had totally expected my sit bones to be sore and tender but to my satisfaction they felt fine. New saddle will cause some soreness but that was gone in a matter of hours, unlike the Ergon which I still hurt the next morning.

    To bring it all to a conclusion, if you are struggling with a good saddle that takes care of numbness I would seriously look at the SQ Lab saddles. Their customer service has been great and while they are somewhat pricey it has definitely paid off on the first ride for me. I will of course keep going for a long term review but honestly I had been on the Charge Spoon/Fabric Scoop for YEARS and never had issues so this was a change for me with the new bike. I don't mind spending good money on things if the cost has a good ROI and from the looks of it this definitely will!

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    Because pictures...


  74. #74
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    Alright, it's time for a bit of an update. Just checked Strava and I officially have 500 miles on the bike with having been on a big trip the last couple of weeks.

    On June 28th I participated in our big mtb race, the Epic Rides Carson City Off-road. This was my second year participating in the race and have done the "Fun 15" both years (really more like 17 miles), and the race is my go to longer ride here in town so it is on well-known and traveled trail. I was able to do better this year by a full minute, even though I felt like I was slower this time around, just goes to show how good that RideGG The Smash really is. Next year the plan is to do the 35 mile course but that may change as my FIL has mentioned that he wants to get back into riding and would like to do the race with me.

    Literally days after that (on Sunday) we left for a two week trip to Colorado with the fam. This time the wife and I planned on staying an extra night in Park City, Utah on both ends as that is our halfway point. So the following Monday I was able to ride PC, which I have been wanting to do since I started riding almost 10yrs ago.

    Anyways, I had spec'd out my proposed ride, planned to have the wife drop me off about halfway between where we were staying (Kimball Junction) and the main mtn. I started out as planned, got to First Time Lift and found Jenni's trail which was my climbing point. Got up to Mid-Mountain and that apparently is where my navigational skills $hit the bed. Did lots of climbing, really enjoying the trails and then suddenly I found myself at a chairlift?! When I got closer to the lift to see wtf I was I realized that I had been riding the WRONG WAY. Oh yeah, for about 8 miles!!! I apparently took a wrong turn and end up in Deer Valley at the top of one of their lifts. Long story short, I pedaled my @$$ back to PC then decided I was going to try doing my actual route back towards the Hotel (plan to drop into Kimball Junction).

    Yeah that didn't go as planned, pedaled back to PC then started climbing the RIGHT DIRECTION towards the hotel only to get a good ways into the ride and realize my legs were toast. Ok, let's look at the map and see how close I am?! Nope, still got a good 10 miles of trail, if not more to get to the hotel. No bueno.....

    At that point I turned around and started to head down back to PC. I figured that I would get there and descend one of the trails that people had been recommending that I climb as it starts right at First Time lift!! Sweet, I get there after taking a couple small wrong turns (not paying attention to sign directions).... and CRAP... Armstrong is a UPHILL TRAFFIC ONLY trail... Now time to find a way down the hill... Spyro it is! Ended up getting all the way down the hill following a couple nice ladies for a bit that were giving me some directional help (why is it that every mtb chick under the age of about 55 in PC is hot as #&*^???!) and then ended back where I started. Figured what the hell and pedaled on the road for another 6 miles back to the hotel, which ended up being nice because the next day was 5hrs in the car again. All in all that ended up being a 34.6 mile ride that day.

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    So after that we headed out to Steamboat Springs, CO where we have family and were there until the following Tuesday. Steamboat has done some serious improvements to their trail systems, constantly adding new trails outside of the main mountain (Steamboat Mtn. Bike Park) and man are they getting better and better all the time.

    Previous favorite trail was Morning Gloria on Mt. Howelson (emerald mtn) but now with the additions they have been doing up Buff Pass and at Spring Creek, the new Spring Creek Downhill trail is just absolutely SICK. Right up my alley with plenty of tech, speed, flow, jumps, you name it. All for about 3 1/2 miles, and they are still adding more to make it so that you do not hit the hiker path on the way down!!!
    https://youtu.be/hmFykIBPhrg

    Of course, now that I am home I am realizing that my legs are completely toast from the 100 miles that I put on during that time (July only) so that is not counting any previous rides the week of the mtb race or the race itself.

    Anyways, here are some pics. Absolutely in love with this bike and can't think of a bike I would rather be riding!!
    Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr
    Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr
    Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr
    Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr
    Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr
    Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr
    Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr

  76. #76
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    I'm glad you are enjoying the new bike. I finally got to see a Revved GG bike a couple weekends ago and I was pretty blown away. They look so good in person and the manufacturing details/quality are top notch. I've got no plans to get rid of my metal 2018 GG Smash, but my FOMO about the new Revved bikes is a lot higher after sitting on one than it was just looking at pics on the web.

    I keep telling myself "I must not buy a new bike!" and then find myself on the GG website dream building a Revved Trail Pistol with light parts and air suspension to go with my burly dual coil metal Smash. Hopefully I can stay strong a while longer.

    We should be getting my GF's Revved Smash soon so that may not help my cause once I see a carbon GG everyday in the garage!
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    Alright, it's time for a bit of an update. Just checked Strava and I officially have 500 miles on the bike with having been on a big trip the last couple of weeks.

    On June 28th I participated in our big mtb race, the Epic Rides Carson City Off-road. This was my second year participating in the race and have done the "Fun 15" both years (really more like 17 miles), and the race is my go to longer ride here in town so it is on well-known and traveled trail. I was able to do better this year by a full minute, even though I felt like I was slower this time around, just goes to show how good that RideGG The Smash really is. Next year the plan is to do the 35 mile course but that may change as my FIL has mentioned that he wants to get back into riding and would like to do the race with me.

    Literally days after that (on Sunday) we left for a two week trip to Colorado with the fam. This time the wife and I planned on staying an extra night in Park City, Utah on both ends as that is our halfway point. So the following Monday I was able to ride PC, which I have been wanting to do since I started riding almost 10yrs ago.

    Anyways, I had spec'd out my proposed ride, planned to have the wife drop me off about halfway between where we were staying (Kimball Junction) and the main mtn. I started out as planned, got to First Time Lift and found Jenni's trail which was my climbing point. Got up to Mid-Mountain and that apparently is where my navigational skills $hit the bed. Did lots of climbing, really enjoying the trails and then suddenly I found myself at a chairlift?! When I got closer to the lift to see wtf I was I realized that I had been riding the WRONG WAY. Oh yeah, for about 8 miles!!! I apparently took a wrong turn and end up in Deer Valley at the top of one of their lifts. Long story short, I pedaled my @$$ back to PC then decided I was going to try doing my actual route back towards the Hotel (plan to drop into Kimball Junction).

    Yeah that didn't go as planned, pedaled back to PC then started climbing the RIGHT DIRECTION towards the hotel only to get a good ways into the ride and realize my legs were toast. Ok, let's look at the map and see how close I am?! Nope, still got a good 10 miles of trail, if not more to get to the hotel. No bueno.....

    At that point I turned around and started to head down back to PC. I figured that I would get there and descend one of the trails that people had been recommending that I climb as it starts right at First Time lift!! Sweet, I get there after taking a couple small wrong turns (not paying attention to sign directions).... and CRAP... Armstrong is a UPHILL TRAFFIC ONLY trail... Now time to find a way down the hill... Spyro it is! Ended up getting all the way down the hill following a couple nice ladies for a bit that were giving me some directional help (why is it that every mtb chick under the age of about 55 in PC is hot as #&*^???!) and then ended back where I started. Figured what the hell and pedaled on the road for another 6 miles back to the hotel, which ended up being nice because the next day was 5hrs in the car again. All in all that ended up being a 34.6 mile ride that day.
    LOL. Yep, it's easy to get turned around in the Park City spaghetti bowl. So many trails. The good news is that they are all fun so even if you didn't end up going where you intended, it's still a good ride. I've ridden there probably every year for as long as I've been riding, and I still get a little confused sometimes when I'm exploring off my main route.
    I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth...
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I'm glad you are enjoying the new bike. I finally got to see a Revved GG bike a couple weekends ago and I was pretty blown away. They look so good in person and the manufacturing details/quality are top notch. I've got no plans to get rid of my metal 2018 GG Smash, but my FOMO about the new Revved bikes is a lot higher after sitting on one than it was just looking at pics on the web.

    I keep telling myself "I must not buy a new bike!" and then find myself on the GG website dream building a Revved Trail Pistol with light parts and air suspension to go with my burly dual coil metal Smash. Hopefully I can stay strong a while longer.

    We should be getting my GF's Revved Smash soon so that may not help my cause once I see a carbon GG everyday in the garage!
    Yeah may not help... or MAY help. All depends on your perspective!! Even with mine at the weight of 37#, it does not pedal like a heavy bastard. Actually on Sunday I pedaled my BILs 2014 Scott Spark while he tried my bike (which he fell in love with) and I can tell you that the Smash pedals as well, if not better than, his Spark. Just felt more supportive and efficient, almost spritely in comparison.

    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    LOL. Yep, it's easy to get turned around in the Park City spaghetti bowl. So many trails. The good news is that they are all fun so even if you didn't end up going where you intended, it's still a good ride. I've ridden there probably every year for as long as I've been riding, and I still get a little confused sometimes when I'm exploring off my main route.
    This won't be the last trip so I am sure I will get to demo the route I had originally planned at some point. Actually, I want to head out your way and hit up the Fears, Tears and Beers one of these YEARS (pun intended).

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    This won't be the last trip so I am sure I will get to demo the route I had originally planned at some point. Actually, I want to head out your way and hit up the Fears, Tears and Beers one of these YEARS (pun intended).
    I'd be happy to show you around the Ely trails any time (year) you come.
    I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth...
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  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    I'd be happy to show you around the Ely trails any time (year) you come.
    Thanks Rob. Bit of a drive for me but the wife travels a lot for work, so if she ever happens to get a contract out there to teach I will definitely be tagging along.

    In other news, I feel like I FINALLY have the coil dialed. Been messing with it here and there trying to get the feel just right and realized that I have had too much preload. Nurse_Ben can attest to how "loose" it is as we were talking about it last night. I can grab the coil and rattle it around in the shock, but believe that I have just enough preload that it should not unscrew itself easily. Only time will tell. But the rear now feels great with the 400lbs spring that I have on there.

    Now to get the Lyrik dialed as much as I can. Ben just received a ShockWiz for his b-day so I will definitely be playing with that in the near future. Was interesting to see everything going on when he was playing with it on our ride last night.

    Also, have a 35mm length stem coming tonight that will be thrown on tomorrow. Just wanted to change things up a bit and see how the shorter stem changed the handling. I like how things are right now with the 50mm in the long setting, so this is a "just for fun" change. Got a good deal on it during the holiday so figured, what the hell.

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    Ok few rides on the 35mm stem and damn that is NICE!!! Love the feeling, just on the edge of being almost twitchy but not really. Steering is super quick and responsive, no issues with oversteer or anything like that with the 42mm offset Lyrik. Bike DEFINITELY likes to be leaned over more than "turned" when riding, especially at speed.

    So far the only negative I can come up with for the bike is the fork (my own fault, but live and learn) and the brakes. I am not at just under 200 miles since I bled them days before my race and they are in need of a bleed service again, especially the rear. Power fades quickly as you start riding, not as you start braking. That's the best way I can describe it. Almost like, as soon as the brakes start getting used a bit then the cycle starts. This conclusion comes from the fact that braking is fine in the garage and what not. Even as you leave the trailhead. After a few stops to check trailmap or to slow down a bit then power, modulation, etc. will begin to fad the rest of the ride.

    Never felt them lose pressure while riding or descending of anything like, just a gradual thing. Even was showing Ben this weekend as we were finishing our ride heading back to the car that I could practically pull the lever (rear) to a couple mm before my fingers before it would start to bite. I don't know that I would call this even a "wandering bite point" as it really doesn't fluctuate like that would imply. This is a gradual loss in bite point, and progressively gets worse over rides until I have to bleed again (figure compared to last time I have another few 10+ mile rides before hitting the point of not getting bite until I pinch my fingers.

    Since I have a bleed kit coming I will bleed the brakes once a month until riding isn't able to happen any more and then I will warranty them with SRAM. Once that is done, then I will invest in something else while SRAM warranties. Those will be sold after receiving.

  82. #82
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    My friend is a LBS owner and told me that SRAM had some assembly issues with their brakes where the connectors were not tightened to spec and they had to be bled repeatedly. My Smash's Codes had that issue. He tightened everything up and I have not touched them in a year and they are working great. Obviously not saying that's your issue, but it's worth checking all the connectors if you have not already and making sure they are tightened to the spec'd torque. If that was your issue it's a super easy fix.

    Personally I love the Codes, we got them on my GF's GG and I will get them on my next GG.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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    Sounds like a super fun bike. I have wanted a GG bike. If I would have known my Ripmo would take so long to come in ... lol, I might have gone that direction instead.

    Lots of fun routes in Park City. And as you alluded to, there is all kinds of really great scenery in Utah ... . My brother came out to Utah and we rode a few weekends back. After about the 10th group we encountered, my brother says "you have to be f$%^&* kidding me, what is this place?"
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  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    My friend is a LBS owner and told me that SRAM had some assembly issues with their brakes where the connectors were not tightened to spec and they had to be bled repeatedly. My Smash's Codes had that issue. He tightened everything up and I have not touched them in a year and they are working great. Obviously not saying that's your issue, but it's worth checking all the connectors if you have not already and making sure they are tightened to the spec'd torque. If that was your issue it's a super easy fix.

    Personally I love the Codes, we got them on my GF's GG and I will get them on my next GG.
    Good to know! I will have to take a look at SRAM's website and see if I can find the information you are talking about. That would be an awesome fix! Like you said, they are awesome when they work. Great feel, modulation, bite, etc. Bleeding them will be a new experience against the dead simple Shimanos but whatever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tystevens View Post
    Sounds like a super fun bike. I have wanted a GG bike. If I would have known my Ripmo would take so long to come in ... lol, I might have gone that direction instead.

    Lots of fun routes in Park City. And as you alluded to, there is all kinds of really great scenery in Utah ... . My brother came out to Utah and we rode a few weekends back. After about the 10th group we encountered, my brother says "you have to be f$%^&* kidding me, what is this place?"
    LOL right! Good thing is that you really will never get lost as you are bound to run into someone within a short period of time. Like the hot mtb chick that ended up showing me most of the way down the mountain. Never a bad view riding behind a gorgeous and capable woman!.

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    Good to know! I will have to take a look at SRAM's website and see if I can find the information you are talking about. That would be an awesome fix! Like you said, they are awesome when they work. Great feel, modulation, bite, etc. Bleeding them will be a new experience against the dead simple Shimanos but whatever.
    We were in Whistler at the time this got discussed with my buddy and he tightened everything up and did a lever bleed in about 10mins before we headed out to the trails for the day and half of that time was talking about the issue. It was no harder than a Shimano brake bleed.
    Safe riding,

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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    We were in Whistler at the time this got discussed with my buddy and he tightened everything up and did a lever bleed in about 10mins before we headed out to the trails for the day and half of that time was talking about the issue. It was no harder than a Shimano brake bleed.
    Awesome! Hopefully it is that simple.
    I went onto SRAMs website and was only able to find one document that had torque specs, which were for the banjos to the caliper. Torqued that on my bike and they were a bit loose, not by much though. I need to do some more digging on the site to see if I can find torque specs for other bolts on the calipers and the hose from the lever to see if those are right. No tracking for the bleed kit but will be two weeks as of Friday (two days from now) that I ordered, but it is coming via Royal Mail from the UK (Epic Bleed Solutions kit). Hoping that it will be here in another day or so, that way I can bleed, otherwise I am gonna need to take to the shop and have them bleed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    My friend is a LBS owner and told me that SRAM had some assembly issues with their brakes where the connectors were not tightened to spec and they had to be bled repeatedly. My Smash's Codes had that issue. He tightened everything up and I have not touched them in a year and they are working great. Obviously not saying that's your issue, but it's worth checking all the connectors if you have not already and making sure they are tightened to the spec'd torque. If that was your issue it's a super easy fix.

    Personally I love the Codes, we got them on my GF's GG and I will get them on my next GG.
    I'd buy that conclusion, but if it's sucking air it will also push out fluid, so you'd see seepage. In Greg's case I did not see any seapage.

    I think we can all agree that SRAM brakes feel great when they work ... sadly they don't work well for long.

    I'd rather bleed Shimano brakes once then deal with SRAM brakes being F'd up all the days.

    I like Shimano, never had any issues, but my favs now are TRP Quadiem.
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  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    I'd buy that conclusion, but if it's sucking air it will also push out fluid, so you'd see seepage. In Greg's case I did not see any seapage.

    I think we can all agree that SRAM brakes feel great when they work ... sadly they don't work well for long.

    I'd rather bleed Shimano brakes once then deal with SRAM brakes being F'd up all the days.

    I like Shimano, never had any issues, but my favs now are TRP Quadiem.
    My Codes had no obvious seepage. I don't think it takes much oil loss/air intake to screw things up.

    Overall I've had far more problems with my Shimano brakes than Avid/SRAM brakes over the years. Once my buddy "fixed" my Codes they haven't been touched since. They just worked.

    At the moment if you make me choose between Shimano or SRAM for new brakes I'll go Codes.
    Safe riding,

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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    My Codes had no obvious seepage. I don't think it takes much oil loss/air intake to screw things up.

    Overall I've had far more problems with my Shimano brakes than Avid/SRAM brakes over the years. Once my buddy "fixed" my Codes they haven't been touched since. They just worked.

    At the moment if you make me choose between Shimano or SRAM for new brakes I'll go Codes.
    This is my first set of hydraulic SRAM/AVID but I am well aware of the issues they have, current and past. Buddies Guides have horrible feel regardless of bleeding.

    Looking at the bleeding video I wonder if this could do with how they have their new "bleeding edge" hole on the caliper? Looking at it, it makes me wonder if there is an inherent flaw in the design that even when completely "closed" the system has the potential to allow air into the system without seeping. This would make more sense in the case where the "bleeding edge port" is not torqued closed properly.

    This is kinda like the MRP Ramp Controls small nut that holds the ramp control adjuster (orange dial) down. Their specs say that you SHOULD NOT go more than 2nM of torque or risk damaging the threads on the air valve. You don't notice the damage as it is so low in the thread length that an air chuck for a shock pump RARELY reaches that far. Yet 2nM is not more than finger tight, so it is easy to ham fist it and go over that torque spec., thus leaving you in a dilemma of how to get said nut off without ruining SOMETHING.

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    Well got my Epic Bleed Solutions kit last night finally. Took almost 2 weeks to get here from the UK, definitely a nicely put together kit with EVERYTHING you will need. Took me about an hour to bleed the system as I did not pressurize it properly the first time.

    Going through the bleed process the second time yielded LOTS more air in the system. Like a ridiculous amount. Check everything on the lines very carefully and have not weeping to speak of anywhere. Once I figured out that I did not pressurize the system properly then I went back through the process, got ALL the bubbles I could out, pressurized the system and all seems good now. Have little lever movement before brakes start to engage, where as previously I would be 5-7mm from my fingers before I would start to feel engagement, I could pull the lever all the way to the bar with not much effort.

    We will see how long this bleed lasts for. I did go through and torque everything as per the instructions from both SRAM and EBS. So hopefully that will keep the air out of the system and that was the only issue.

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    So quick update...
    This happened on Friday...
    Untitled by Greg Fisicaro, on Flickr

    Figured I would give the Lyrik one last chance and see if there was something going on with the equipped MRP Ramp Control module. Had ridden with a buddy earlier in the week and he even said that something did not feel right when he was just riding my bike around the parking lot. At that point the ramp was all the way off but the fork still felt stiff. Tried removing only to have the nut on the air valve that holds down the ramp control knob strip. Got a hold of MRP and they gave me some options that eventually worked to get it off (with a few choice words yelled at the floor in my garage).

    Put the standard air cap in there with one token and then got my hands on a ShockWiz thanks to Nurse_Ben. SOOOOOO MUCH Different now!!! The fork actually feels somewhat plush in the beginning, takes hits much better and overall feels quite nice! After a nice 18 mile ride yesterday with the ShockWiz attached it said that my HSC, LSC and Rebound were pretty good but my Spring Rate was off, needed to add another token and decrease my air.

    Gonna run it again tonight with another token at the PSI I was running yesterday (65psi which seems STUPID Low) and see what it comes back with.

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    Welp I am done with the SRAM brakes. Less than 250 miles since the last bleed and they were fading bad. Within a couple mils of the bar before they would have enough stopping power. Last ride I pinched my middle finger again, not having enough stopping power in one fast section and said screw-it.

    Spent over an hour on Monday night trying to bleed the system and kept getting air. Would seem like I got everything out only to have the lever worse off. Said screw-it and took to the shop on Tuesday afternoon to have them do the bleed AND start the warranty process. Got some good feed back from the Brake Time forum and now have a ShiGura setup on its way (Shimano XT Levers with Magura MT5 calipers). All in, kit cost me less than $300 with a bleed kit included, mind you that Magura's have to come from Germany.

    Soon as they get here the warrantied SRAM will be going on eBay with the bleed kit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    Soon as they get here the warrantied SRAM will be going on eBay with the bleed kit.
    PM me once you have them back. I'd be interested depending on the price. We've got 2 sets of Codes that are trouble free and work great. As I need to replace other brakes I'd like to standardise around the Codes.
    Safe riding,

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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    PM me once you have them back. I'd be interested depending on the price. We've got 2 sets of Codes that are trouble free and work great. As I need to replace other brakes I'd like to standardise around the Codes.
    Sure thing Vik, I will give you first dibs.

    Warranty process has starting already, had to have the brakes bled by the shop last week and had them start the paperwork (they will call me once they get parts in). In the meantime I have done another 50 miles (3 rides) on them and by 30ish miles the rear was fading on power and modulation again. Couple of harder braking situations and pulled the rear lever to my the bars pinching my middle finger (only 1-finger braker).

    Last nights I just felt off, was braking and system would randomly lock up the rear like it was having a wandering bite point. I'm officially done. Don't feel like I can trust the brakes to slow me down or stop me adequately, just felt on edge going through my normal sections that I haul ass through as I was not sure how well the brakes would decide to work for me. That is not a fun feeling.

    Magura's arrived last night so they will get installed in the next day or two, had originally planned on waiting until the warranty parts were in and then have the shop handle for me but I am done. I don't want to have to babysit a part just to get it to function properly. I want to ride my bike and not worry if this time, on that feature, the brakes aren't gonna work. SRAM I believe you make great drivetrain stuff, but time for you to step up your game on the brakes, stop sending dirt rags only the top of the line stuff to review, and start making things for the AVERAGE rider.

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    Videos from last bleed. This was second and third go at bleeding the brakes, creating extra vacuum to see the amount of bubbles in the system. Would follow the process exactly, create the final vacuum/pressurization of the system. Close the system up and go for a quick pedal around the neighborhood only to have the lever go completely to the bar. Then repeat the process again.

    Pt 1. (second bleed attempt)
    https://youtu.be/IrLQcv70QzE

    Pt 2. (third bleed attempt)
    https://youtu.be/B7hCLp2Hec4

    This was constantly what I was getting.

  96. #96
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    Fork offset

    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    Yeah there is still some tinkering to do, but that is part of the fun and why I wanted the bike months in advance before my race (Capital City Offroad by Epic Rides) so that way I had time to make the tweaks necessary. See I am 180-185# out of the shower and normally ride with an EVOC 3L hip pack with bladder. So with full kit I am probably right about the 190# mark. The 400# spring may be too much for me but with how cheap springs are I can probably play with them a bit and grab a 350# and 450-500# spring. I will mess with the preload first, when I demo'd Scott2MTBs smash last year he was running the same shock with a 400# spring and was at about 15mm of preload, so I had originally started what I thought was there but could have measured wrong.

    I got plenty of ride time to keep tweaking a bit and I will until I find that settings that I like most. For the fork at this point is figuring out how the Ramp Control changes the feel once I get the LSC/HSC/Rebound dialed in.

    I dont know that the front wheel felt vague, the reason for the fork was was the damper in the Yari. Just so happened that the Lyrik was a shorter offset. Otherwise I would have grabbed a Charger 2 damper and dropped it in the Yari. Both forks are plenty stiff and track nicely. No real "vagueness" in the steering, just that the 51mm felt to me like it needed more steering input (aka body english) to do the same type of stuff in certain areas. Neither is bad, just different.
    I know this post is kind of old, but I am in a dilemma. I have a brand new Lyrik Ultimate with 42mm offset in my garage waiting for my Revved Smash to show up. I was originally planning on getting a different bike to put that on but things changed. I can still return the fork for a 51mm offset, but is the 42mm actually a better option? Any input is appreciated. Thanks!

  97. #97
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    I think so, thatís what I rode on my Smash x 2, then sold the second one to Greg when I got a Shred Dogg.

    Pretty much all the new 29ers are being specced with short offset forks, so itís either better or itís koolaid.

    I run a 29Ē 44mm offset Bomber Z1 on my Shred now, I can 29Ē or 27.5Ē wheels. Works great with either wheel size.

    Personally, if the Lyric is new and you can return it, Iíd recommend a Fox or Bomber with a Grip or Grip 2 damper. The Grip damper is found on Fox Performance and the Bomber Z1 forks, Grip 2 is Fox with or without Kashima. Donít get a Fit4 damper, they suck bad!

    Enjoy your Smash!

    Quote Originally Posted by tvcraig75 View Post
    I know this post is kind of old, but I am in a dilemma. I have a brand new Lyrik Ultimate with 42mm offset in my garage waiting for my Revved Smash to show up. I was originally planning on getting a different bike to put that on but things changed. I can still return the fork for a 51mm offset, but is the 42mm actually a better option? Any input is appreciated. Thanks!
    GG Shred Dogg 27+/29 (go fast!)
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    I just sold my Evil Insurgent and Iím ready to buy my next bike. Want to get one ordered so I donít miss out on any riding when spring hits and the southern Colorado and Utah trails open up! Iíve narrowed it down to the Revved GG Smash or the Ibis Ripmo AF. They would both be ordered with fairly comparable builds. DVO suspension, Sram GX Eagle, Bike Yoke Dropper, Shimano 4 piston brakes (gg/XT - Ibis/Deore), Maxxis assegai tires. The Ibis would come with the Ibis wheels and Iíd order the GG with DT Swiss XM 1501 wheels, which have better engagement.

    Three major differences between the bikes are...
    1. carbon vs aluminum, I donít know that I really care. The GG is definitely prettier and more modern.
    2. Suspension Platform, Iíve ridden and really like DW link on Ibis and other bikes. I want a bike I can climb well with and rip DH with. I personally donít know how well the GG really climbs. I believe both will be awesome DH.
    3. Price, $5400 for the GG and $4300 for the Ripmo.

    Iím looking for advise! Anyone with time on both bikes would be great (Carbon Ripmo or AF). Also, anyone with time on either and the Evil Insurgent. If the GG climbs as well as the Evil, that would be good to know. I liked how it climbed. An help will be appreciated!

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGOJosh View Post
    2. Suspension Platform, Iíve ridden and really like DW link on Ibis and other bikes. I want a bike I can climb well with and rip DH with. I personally donít know how well the GG really climbs. I believe both will be awesome DH.
    I've owned or ridden DW-Link, VPP, Evil's Delta Link and Knolly's 4x4. They all have a different feel. I didn't dislike any of them and got some good climbing results from each system once I adjusted the suspension properly. I've got a Smash and have been setting PRs on my local climbs over all my previous bikes.

    I bought the Smash sight unseen and was a bit worried about how it would climb since I love getting uphill PRs and cleaning techy sections. I was blown away by the GG suspension feel. It was the perfect amount of platform and traction for my riding. I've done 5-6hr alpine climbs with big elevation gain and left my coil shock in open the whole time. I like not flipping switches and still feeling like the rear end of the bike is always doing what I want.

    After a season on my Smash my GF got one and has been killing it on the trails up and down. All her riding buddies have been commenting on how well she's been doing and I am helping the first one spec her own GG.

    I'm really glad I took a chance on the Smash. I love that bike.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I've owned or ridden DW-Link, VPP, Evil's Delta Link and Knolly's 4x4. They all have a different feel. I didn't dislike any of them and got some good climbing results from each system once I adjusted the suspension properly. I've got a Smash and have been setting PRs on my local climbs over all my previous bikes.

    I bought the Smash sight unseen and was a bit worried about how it would climb since I love getting uphill PRs and cleaning techy sections. I was blown away by the GG suspension feel. It was the perfect amount of platform and traction for my riding. I've done 5-6hr alpine climbs with big elevation gain and left my coil shock in open the whole time. I like not flipping switches and still feeling like the rear end of the bike is always doing what I want.

    After a season on my Smash my GF got one and has been killing it on the trails up and down. All her riding buddies have been commenting on how well she's been doing and I am help the first one spec her own GG.

    I'm really glad I took a chance on the Smash. I love that bike.
    Thanks for the feedback Vik. Itís a lot of money and I want a bike that will hold up and do what I need it to do! Sounds like this really might be the right bike for me!

    Itís weird how much anxiety a guy can get when buying a new bike! Haha! First world problem for sure!

  101. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGOJosh View Post
    Thanks for the feedback Vik. Itís a lot of money and I want a bike that will hold up and do what I need it to do! Sounds like this really might be the right bike for me!

    Itís weird how much anxiety a guy can get when buying a new bike! Haha! First world problem for sure!
    If feel your pain. I poured over every GG Smash review and post when I was deciding what to do. So I figured I should pay that back by providing feedback on my experience.

    You can ship the bike back to GG for a refund in the first 30 days if you weren't happy.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

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    You can ship the bike back to GG for a refund in the first 30 days if you weren't happy.[/QUOTE]

    Very true Vik, a 30 day refund is a great option to have.

  103. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGOJosh View Post
    You can ship the bike back to GG for a refund in the first 30 days if you weren't happy.
    Very true Vik, a 30 day refund is a great option to have.[/QUOTE]

    Why not demo both bikes first?

    I like DW, but I didn't think the Ripmo was all that great, certainly not better than teh GG.

    The Aluminum Ripmo is nothing special, it's just a heavier and less expensive Ripmo. Gotta love how they've played it up to be awesome AF

    I ride GG for lots of reasons, bought my Smash without a demo, admittedly it took some time to get the ride feel sorted out, now I've had a couple more GG bikes and I know what to expect.

    You ought to try more bikes so you can suss out what you liked about the Evil and what you didn't, then apply it to your future ride.

    I wouldn't buy a bike based on reviews or hype.
    GG Shred Dogg 27+/29 (go fast!)
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  104. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Why not demo both bikes first?
    Of the last 6 mountain bikes we bought we demo'd zero and they have all been great bikes we've loved. In particular if demoing was a requirement we would not own our two GG Smashes.

    The last bike my GF got to ride before buying she ended up unhappy with and selling. I had the opportunity to demo a bike I owned and loved...the demo experience was terrible and I would never have bought the bike based on that. Jumping on a bike that's not setup well for you and if it's a demo bike...potentially clapped out doesn't tell you a whole lot.

    Looking back at my own experience spending the time and $$ to demo bikes didn't pay off. I'm happy to buy based on research and then sell if I don't love the bike. So far getting a bike we aren't stoked with has been rare.

    With a liberal return policy like GG has most of the risk of buying the wrong bike is gone.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  105. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Of the last 6 mountain bikes we bought we demo'd zero and they have all been great bikes we've loved. In particular if demoing was a requirement we would not own our two GG Smashes.

    The last bike my GF got to ride before buying she ended up unhappy with and selling. I had the opportunity to demo a bike I owned and loved...the demo experience was terrible and I would never have bought the bike based on that. Jumping on a bike that's not setup well for you and if it's a demo bike...potentially clapped out doesn't tell you a whole lot.

    Looking back at my own experience spending the time and $$ to demo bikes didn't pay off. I'm happy to buy based on research and then sell if I don't love the bike. So far getting a bike we aren't stoked with has been rare.

    With a liberal return policy like GG has most of the risk of buying the wrong bike is gone.
    Well freakin' said, Vik.

    That said, we're lucky if we understand fit and geometry well enough to buy a bike unseen, unridden. I've been doing just that for the past 20 years, but I owned plenty of bikes before that, including some custom frames which sped up my learning curve.

    The good news in all of this is it's almost hard to buy a bad bike these days. I've loved both my Guerrilla Gravity bikes (Trail Pistol and Smash) but to be honest, the best rear suspension I've owned to date was my DW Link Turner Sultan. GG's Horst Link is damn good -- I'm not dissatisfied with it any way -- it's just, well, different than the various virtual pivot point designs on the market. Some might prefer it (whereas I simply appreciate it for what it is -- a well functioning design). But the Ripmo AF is already on my short list; I'm sure I'd be as happy as a clam with it. A friend just acquired one so I'm sure I'll find out soon.

    Two of my best riding buddies each have different bike brands yet that are also awesome -- a Pivot Switchblade and a Yeti SB150. Excellent bikes! I don't care what anybody rides. I love my Smash and I'm obviously a loyal GG customer but if push comes to shove, I'll buy another bike, and my decision will never be based on a test ride. Did that once. Didn't work out. Fortunately for me, I know enough about bike fit, geo & suspension design to just order what I want.

    I wish everybody did.
    =sParty
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    We don't quit riding because we get old.
    We get old because we quit riding.

  106. #106
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    OTOH, I did demo a bunch of bikes at an event and ended up being most impressed with a GG Shred Dogg, which I bought right away. I've since converted it to a Megatrail and have had a lot more time on serious terrain. As good as that initial test ride was, I was a bit worried that there was just a honeymoon period, however the bike has been even better than I ever would have expected.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  107. #107
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    I just converted my Revved Shred to a Mega, couldnít be happier, what a nice riding bike, supple but climbs like a goat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    OTOH, I did demo a bunch of bikes at an event and ended up being most impressed with a GG Shred Dogg, which I bought right away. I've since converted it to a Megatrail and have had a lot more time on serious terrain. As good as that initial test ride was, I was a bit worried that there was just a honeymoon period, however the bike has been even better than I ever would have expected.
    GG Shred Dogg 27+/29 (go fast!)
    RSD Wildcat V2 (backyard kicks)
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  108. #108
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    Well, I pulled the trigger and ordered a Smash last week and Iím stoked!!! Canít wait for it to get here! I was able to throw my leg over one and made sure I ordered the right size. Should be an awesome summer!

  109. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGOJosh View Post
    Well, I pulled the trigger and ordered a Smash last week and Iím stoked!!! Canít wait for it to get here! I was able to throw my leg over one and made sure I ordered the right size. Should be an awesome summer!
    Congrats, hope it gets to you soon. What build did you get? It's so great that GG let's you pick a la carte the details of you bike. I sometimes wonder how many other bikes are exactly like mine, since there are so many choices that make up the build.

  110. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by G_T View Post
    Congrats, hope it gets to you soon. What build did you get? It's so great that GG let's you pick a la carte the details of you bike. I sometimes wonder how many other bikes are exactly like mine, since there are so many choices that make up the build.
    Thanks! The a la carte option is awesome, but there are so many good options it was a little bit overwhelming! I was really tempted to try the DVO suspension, but stuck with what I know. I really wanted to stick with the Industry9 Enduro wheelset since my last set were still in great shape after 5 years and approximately 8k miles on then, but I decided to save a little money and went with DT Swiss.

    I ordered the Rally build with Black decals, the Fox DPX2, Fox 36 Factory Grip2 170mm, Shimano XT 4 Piston brakes/XT drivetrain, DT Swiss XM 1501 i30 wheel-set (I ordered the hub upgrade kit) and Maxxis DHF 2.5 and Aggressor 2.5.

    Iím pretty stoked about the build and feel like I got a fair deal. Now I just want to get this bike in and start smashing the pedals!

  111. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by G_T View Post
    Congrats, hope it gets to you soon. What build did you get? It's so great that GG let's you pick a la carte the details of you bike. I sometimes wonder how many other bikes are exactly like mine, since there are so many choices that make up the build.
    I really like that you can spec a Shimano drivetrain. I don't care for the ergonomics of SRAM shifters and don't want to be stuck with them on a stock build.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  112. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGOJosh View Post
    Thanks! The a la carte option is awesome, but there are so many good options it was a little bit overwhelming! I was really tempted to try the DVO suspension, but stuck with what I know. I really wanted to stick with the Industry9 Enduro wheelset since my last set were still in great shape after 5 years and approximately 8k miles on then, but I decided to save a little money and went with DT Swiss.

    I ordered the Rally build with Black decals, the Fox DPX2, Fox 36 Factory Grip2 170mm, Shimano XT 4 Piston brakes/XT drivetrain, DT Swiss XM 1501 i30 wheel-set (I ordered the hub upgrade kit) and Maxxis DHF 2.5 and Aggressor 2.5.

    Iím pretty stoked about the build and feel like I got a fair deal. Now I just want to get this bike in and start smashing the pedals!
    That sounds like an awesome build!
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  113. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGOJosh View Post
    I ordered the Rally build with Black decals, the Fox DPX2, Fox 36 Factory Grip2 170mm, Shimano XT 4 Piston brakes/XT drivetrain, DT Swiss XM 1501 i30 wheel-set (I ordered the hub upgrade kit) and Maxxis DHF 2.5 and Aggressor 2.5.
    !
    That thing is going to be a fast beast, especially with that Fox 36 at 170mm.

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    I sure hope so!!! I was on the fence on the fork travel. I hope I made the right call and I can still climb fairly well with it!

  115. #115
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    I havenít personally had a Shimano drivetrain in years. Iíve demoed plenty and liked them. I was pretty happy with my Sram XO1 and GX 1x11 drivetrains, but I donít really care for my gx Eagle on my hardtail. I canít seem to get it to stay adjusted. Iíve adjusted it myself and finally took it into 2 different shops and it still struggles.

  116. #116
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    Catching things back up as I normally go MIA in the winter, end up focusing more on my Land Cruiser than anything. And actually ended up selling the old FJ60 and purchasing a newer 100 Series Land Cruiser as the wife and I are looking at purchasing a small trailer in the next year or so. Still miss the old girl but the more "modern" vehicle is nice for sure.

    Anyways, getting back into the swing of things with riding as the sun starts staying out longer and longer. Still absolutely love the SMASH! This year money is dedicated to other things so will be keeping the bike setup the way she is but not 100% sold on the coil rear.
    Don't get me wrong, it is nice and all, but feel like something is missing. Same with the Lyrik up front. Took me forever to get it to the point it is at and still feel like the SR Suntour Auron that I had on my last bike was as good, if not better and was no where near as finicky.

    I did end up upgrading the brakes to a set of Magura MT5s and have really loved those thus far. While the levers feel plasticky they are good and have a nice feel to them, stupid simple to bleed like shimanos. IF i do end up breaking a lever I will just do a ShiGura build on them and call it good. Will be rebuilding my DMR Vault pedals tonight as the bearings are starting to squeak a bit and figure two full seasons of riding on them without service is pretty good.

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