2008 Manitou Minute 120mm 29'er Fork.- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Caution;  Merge;  Workers Ahead! 2008 Manitou Minute 120mm 29'er Fork.

    First Impressions:

    This is a very nice looking fork, the white finish looks great with the red decals and polished silver crown.

    Fitting to the bike is pretty standard stuff, measure and cut steerer tube, bolt on brake .......oops! wait a sec .... this is a post mount fork and it wouldn't accept my 185 Avid IS mount, so I had to resort to using a standard 90mm rotor on the Avid to test ride the bike.

    Nevertheless, onwards ....

    When I first bounced this fork on the bike, my RIP 9, it felt quite stiff initially. There was some bad stiction in the first 30mm or so of travel, then it was ultra smooth.

    I checked the air in the left fork leg and pumped it to 100psi. Then I gave the damper on the right fork leg a twist...wow! The first click worked ok, then the second made the fork very stiff, the third even worse...etc. 5 clicks locked it out.

    There is not enough difference between the positions, so I took the top cap off the fork to check the oil level and proceeded to drop the two small ball bearings under the cap onto the floor. Luckily, I found them, but if/when you decide to check the oil level, watch out for the bearings as you remove the adjuster cap.

    I measured the oil and found it a little low, so I added 15ml of 5 weight fork oil in there, then replaced the bearings and top adjuster cap after adding some powdered graphite to the bottom of the cap to make the adjuster/bearings work slickly.

    The damper felt better, there was a bit more definition between the clicks and damping positions.

    Ok, gear on and ready to ride ...............


    On the trail, the fork feels neutral....in a good way. The travel is very linear, a lot like the coiled conversion Reba. It feels a little stiffer than the Reba as far as twisting goes, and this is the QR version, not the TA.

    I stopped and adjusted the rebound on the bottom of the fork leg to slow the return action slightly. For this first part of the ride I left the damper alone, it was in the full open position.

    With the fork air pressure set at 100psi, I was getting almost full travel on the sliders over some rough steps and roots at moderate speed. At no time did the Manitou feel out of it's depth or unable to handle what I was throwing it into. The overall feeling was smooth, bottomless travel.

    I set the damper on full and stood up .... hammered up a hill .... no bob from the front end. Flicked it off and hammered down the other side .... very smooth...

    This fork definitely shows promise. The quality seems to be there, there is adequate adjustment for rebound, damping and air pressure available. The manual says 20 hours run-in time, and I should have that on it by next week.

    Just one thing ..... the "stickiness" in the first 30mm of travel after the fork has been sitting for a while. This could be due to it's being brand new, or on the other hand, something to do with the oil levels. I'll run the fork in and see how it feels by then.

    For now, i'm pretty happy with the performance right out of the box. The extra travel is welcome on my RIP 9 and the fork seems to suit this kind of Am bike really well.

    The overall feeling is very similar to the coiled Reba, but with the added tune-ability of the air, and more travel.

    I'll post some pics shortly.



    R.
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  2. #2
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    Manitou 29'er Pics.

    As promised...straight after first trail ride.


    R.
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  3. #3
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    Few more...

    Nice fork so far...




    R.


    [As always, I have no connections or affiliations with the manufacturer. I am an Independant Professional Tester/Reviewer.]
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    Last edited by Rainman; 10-20-2007 at 11:30 PM.
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  4. #4
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    Looks like you have loads of tire clearance there!

  5. #5
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    I'm trying to figure out what the Rasta decals on mine are for.

    Do I have to roll up a fat one to be able to ride this fork, mon?
    No longer member of the bike industry nor society, so don't hassle me.

  6. #6
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    no, ride in peace...
    For a rock steady Gas Tank bag > the DeWidget

    bit.ly/BuyDeWidget

    https://www.instagram.com/drj0n_bagworks/

  7. #7
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    You're never going to have much of a range for adjustment with the compression/ platform...and it has nothing to do with the oil levels. I have over 100 hours on this fork, and honestly...I think that 5 wt oil is just too heavy (unbelieveably) and I weigh 220 lbs. I tried everything except drilling out the ports a bit, and it wasn't until I purchased some lightweight tuning oil (2.5 wt) that I finally felt like the fork came into it's own. With the lighter weight oil, you actually can use the compression adjustment to dial out some of the brake dive (and this fork is VERY susceptible to brake dive). The extreme end of the platform still functions perfectly, locking the fork out.

    One symptom that is indicative of too low an oil level is when you have the platform ON, you don't feel it engage until an inch or so into it's travel range.


  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter
    You're never going to have much of a range for adjustment with the compression/ platform...and it has nothing to do with the oil levels. I have over 100 hours on this fork, and honestly...I think that 5 wt oil is just too heavy (unbelieveably) and I weigh 220 lbs. I tried everything except drilling out the ports a bit, and it wasn't until I purchased some lightweight tuning oil (2.5 wt) that I finally felt like the fork came into it's own. With the lighter weight oil, you actually can use the compression adjustment to dial out some of the brake dive (and this fork is VERY susceptible to brake dive). The extreme end of the platform still functions perfectly, locking the fork out.

    One symptom that is indicative of too low an oil level is when you have the platform ON, you don't feel it engage until an inch or so into it's travel range.

    I read your thread on this fork with interest, JNC.

    Did you replace the foam rings on the damper which you previously removed?

    Since topping up my damper oil, the fork seems to be functioning quite well so far, apart from the stiction at the start of the compression cycle.

    I plan to ride this fork in during next week, so we shall see how it goes with some hours on it for me.

    Thanks for the comments...


    R.
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  9. #9
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    distributor?

    Anyone know when quality or bti or any distributors will have these in stock? I'm waiting to order through my shop - I guess chain reaction cycles bought all the first run or something????

  10. #10
    jrm
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    I talked to Manitou/Hayes last week.

    Quote Originally Posted by jayoutside
    Anyone know when quality or bti or any distributors will have these in stock? I'm waiting to order through my shop - I guess chain reaction cycles bought all the first run or something????
    they stated that they will ahve the next shipment of minute 29ers in the 120mm config in 2 t o3 weeks. Youll have to buy through a dealer. Heres the PN# 8521763..

  11. #11
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    Question

    Sorry if this has been covered already. I've seen some discussion on this topic, but no difinitive answer.

    I was told back last February that the Minute 120mm travel fork was internally convertible to less travel, but that the other, shorter travel offerings could not be bumped up to 120mm travel. True or false?

    Comments: As one who got to ride a couple examples of this fork at the Outdoor Demo, I would say that the Minute felt slightly better in the chassis stiffness department than a Reba, and about the same as a Fox which I have also ridden. The nod going to the Fox in my mind. The Minute seemed to be okay at small bump compliance, better than the Fox shocks I rode. Big hits seemed to get sucked up fine with the Minute, but I could feel the ramping up of compression towards the end of the stroke. I didn't get that with the Fox, but then again, the Minute didn't really bother me that way.

    Keeping in mind that these forks were all set up rather quickly and the rides were shorter than what Rainman is probably doing here. I just thought I'd share my opinion.

    It'll be interesting to get your considered take on this fork, Rainman. Thanks for taking the time and effort to do this.
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  12. #12
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    Caution;  Merge;  Workers Ahead! More Ride Time...

    Got several more hours ride-time on this Minute 29, and did some testing of the Absolute Platform Damping....

    It works ok, but makes the fork a little noisier as it tries to prevent dive over steps / rocks and under brakes.

    It's a little too early to say for sure, as the fork is still running in, but i'm beginning to think that the ports in the damper are a little too small. JNC found the same thing I believe, and got around it by running very light 2.5 weight oil so that it gets through the damper ports faster.

    I'm not going to change from 5 weight until the fork is run in properly, to give it a fair chance to come good, but if I have to run lighter oil eventually, I will.

    The fork itself is a pleasure to ride when in the undamped position with full rebound turned on, for me.

    With the Absolute Damping engaged in position one, the fork is firmer feeling and tends not to dive nearly as much. Engaging position two makes the fork quite stiff, only hard braking and big hits tend to make it react properly. It's almost as if the fork can't react quickly enough because of the oil or ports. Being new and not run in doesn't help either.

    Positions 3, 4, and 5 aren't much different, position 5 is full solid feeling lockout.

    Climbing:

    On the RIP 9 I haven't noticed any bad effects with the longer travel fork when climbing, so far. The front end doesn't dance around in the air or anything, it tracks well as long as you keep some weight on the front end.

    In high speed corners there is no indication that the fork is doing anything that it shouldn't, there is no unwanted wash out or sideways chatter when cranked over.

    Under very hard 100% braking force, the fork behaves itself well. There is a lot of dive if you hit it hard with the brake when in the undamped position, but this can be controlled with the Absolute Damper which takes away a lot of the front end dive. In this it is similar to every other fork i've tried, no better or worse.

    I mostly rode it today in position one on the damper. This still gave a pretty good ride but made the fork much more stable under brakes.

    There is a heavier spring available which should have come with my fork, but didn't. I'm currently chasing this up. I'm thinking that some riders over say .... 220lbs+ may benefit from the stronger/firmer spring.

    Overall, i'm still happy with this Manitou fork. It shows much promise, and I believe that with some fine tuning it could be very good indeed.

    I'll continue to put more run-in hours on it during this week as long as the weather holds.



    R.
    Last edited by Rainman; 10-22-2007 at 03:47 AM.
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  13. #13
    just ride
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    i saw reports in some other forums as well that these things are all being shipped with too little oil from the factory. Looks like an oil top off is required before use on all of em....
    Tires for real rides: www.terrenetires.com

  14. #14
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    Sounds like your findings parallel mine. Do you get a "clicking" sound when you have any level of platform engaged? Goes away when you open the compression all the way.

    Not sure I know what the spring you referenced is...as the fork uses an air spring. There is a spring under the "piston head" on the air side that, I'm assuming, acts to create a more linear progression in the ramp up.

    You can see it pictured here...in the top stack.



    In the end...I agree that the fork has alot of potential, but will require a person to do some tuning mods to get optimum performance.


  15. #15
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    Good job! rear shock

    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter
    Sounds like your findings parallel mine. Do you get a "clicking" sound when you have any level of platform engaged? Goes away when you open the compression all the way.

    Not sure I know what the spring you referenced is...as the fork uses an air spring. There is a spring under the "piston head" on the air side that, I'm assuming, acts to create a more linear progression in the ramp up.

    You can see it pictured here...in the top stack.



    In the end...I agree that the fork has alot of potential, but will require a person to do some tuning mods to get optimum performance.
    Jncarpenter:

    What rear shcok u running now and could u post a pic of ur cool looking Turner as well pls if not to much trouble.
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  16. #16
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    I seem to remember from past team experiance when sponsored by Manitou, the small coil spring on the air spring would, when compressed, tap the inner stantion tube creating a small clicking noise. Manitou's fix was a litttle electrical shrink wrap on the spring to give it a buffer from the inner tube.

  17. #17
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    Currently running the RP23 that came stock...running the smaller volume can to compensate for the different leverage curve of the Spot rockers.



  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattomoto
    I seem to remember from past team experiance when sponsored by Manitou, the small coil spring on the air spring would, when compressed, tap the inner stantion tube creating a small clicking noise. Manitou's fix was a litttle electrical shrink wrap on the spring to give it a buffer from the inner tube.
    Interesting thought...does seem to be linked to the damper adjustment tho. I'll give it a try & see


  19. #19
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    Post adaptor

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman
    First Impressions:
    wait a sec .... this is a post mount fork and it wouldn't accept my 185 Avid IS mount, so I had to resort to using a standard 90mm rotor on the Avid to test ride the bike.
    R.
    Just got my post adaptor. Rainman you need Avid Part # 00-5315-012-020.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter
    Sounds like your findings parallel mine. Do you get a "clicking" sound when you have any level of platform engaged? Goes away when you open the compression all the way.

    Not sure I know what the spring you referenced is...as the fork uses an air spring. There is a spring under the "piston head" on the air side that, I'm assuming, acts to create a more linear progression in the ramp up.

    You can see it pictured here...in the top stack.



    In the end...I agree that the fork has alot of potential, but will require a person to do some tuning mods to get optimum performance.





    The spring I was referring to is that one in the pic, I heard that a stronger one is available, but I was wrong, apparently. It seems that the one that comes with the fork is the only option.

    I agree with the damping ...mine sometimes had a "clicking" sound when engaged. I thought that it was a bit strange.

    What are the oil capacities for both legs jnc? As you have already had yours completely apart, how much oil did you put in each leg when you re-built?

    R.
    It is inevitable ...

  21. #21
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    Thanks dgd, I ordered one a couple of days ago...


    R.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman
    What are the oil capacities for both legs jnc? As you have already had yours completely apart, how much oil did you put in each leg when you re-built?

    R.
    Well, I can't remember the exact ml. I initially had to tweak the levels to get the platform adjust to work. If you think about it, the oil needs to come at least to the level of the piston head/ seal on the platform assembly....else it will not engage until the fork is depressed a ways. I even back filled on top of it a bit to make sure that I had sufficient level. I believe it was reported from the manual that 100mm down from the top of the leg was what was required. You could easily measure (once removed) from the lip of the threaded cap to the seal on the piston head & that should give you an adequate starting point.

    When I changed oil weights...I just measured the amount I removed & replaced with same volume. I'll make a note of it next oil change.
    Also, there isn't any oil in the left leg...just M-Prep on the seals & moving bits.


  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter
    Well, I can't remember the exact ml. I initially had to tweak the levels to get the platform adjust to work. If you think about it, the oil needs to come at least to the level of the piston head/ seal on the platform assembly....else it will not engage until the fork is depressed a ways. I even back filled on top of it a bit to make sure that I had sufficient level. I believe it was reported from the manual that 100mm down from the top of the leg was what was required. You could easily measure (once removed) from the lip of the threaded cap to the seal on the piston head & that should give you an adequate starting point.

    When I changed oil weights...I just measured the amount I removed & replaced with same volume. I'll make a note of it next oil change.
    Also, there isn't any oil in the left leg...just M-Prep on the seals & moving bits.

    Ok, thanks for that. It seems that everything I have done is correct then. That is how I did it when I filled mine up. 100mm from the top as specified in the manual.

    I didn't know whether or not there was any oil in the left side...that was why I asked.

    That's interesting info from Mattomoto about the coil spring hitting the inner leg though. I wonder if that is the origin of the "click" when the platform damper is engaged .......... hmmmmm........

    *** When I think about it, it doesn't make sense...because the spring shouldn't be affected by the platform at all....??? ***

    The platform damping is all happening on the right hand side of the fork and is controlled by the oil and porting as far as I can see. Nothing happens on the left hand side of the fork, it all stays the same, imo.

    The only adjustment that effects the left hand side is air pressure.

    Turning the click adjuster to positions 2 and three stiffens the fork by closing off the ports gradually .... by position 5 the ports are completely closed, so the fork is effectively locked out.

    It seems to indicate that the oil specced by Manitou is too heavy, and your use of lighter oil [2.5] could be the key to unlock this fork's potential.

    Interesting.....




    R.
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  24. #24

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    Wait...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman
    Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.......

    R.
    I thought you were supposed to disclose your status as a "professional independent product tester/reviewer" what ever that means.

    Not to pick on you, but still trying to prove a worthless point.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by unotache
    I thought you were supposed to disclose your status as a "professional independent product tester/reviewer" what ever that means.

    Not to pick on you, but still trying to prove a worthless point.

    Your "worthless point" has already been covered in one of my earlier posts on this review.

    If you don't understand what a pro tester / reviewer does... I can't help you.


    Go ride ... something.



    R.
    It is inevitable ...

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman
    Go ride ... something.
    ...and if you need suggestions as to what, let us know.


  27. #27

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    I'm game..

    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter
    ..let us know.
    by us, who exactly are you referring to?

  28. #28
    AOK
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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter
    In the end...I agree that the fork has alot of potential, but will require a person to do some tuning mods to get optimum performance.
    Sounds a lot like what I read (and have personally experienced) with the Maverick DUC32. Hopefully Manitou will sort it out and get a better factory setup someday.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by unotache
    by us, who exactly are you referring to?
    ...huh?


  30. #30

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    what?

    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter
    ...huh?
    Now back to the "independent/professional" reports.
    Last edited by unotache; 10-22-2007 at 09:16 PM.

  31. #31
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    sounds like another use of the ignore feature...

    Big thanks to JNC and Rainman for their efforts in letting us all know about this fork. JNC, I'm interested to hear if there are any ongoing issues that arise from the leaking rebound [?] adjuster.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by PuddleDuck
    Big thanks to JNC and Rainman for their efforts in letting us all know about this fork. JNC, I'm interested to hear if there are any ongoing issues that arise from the leaking rebound [?] adjuster.
    Interestingly enough, I cleaned the area really well & decided to keep an eye out for any additional developing leaks.....still dry.

    The day before, I had run up on a bigger drop at speed then I would typically take the Sultan off. I wasn't familiar with the section of trail & it totally surprised me. If I had locked up the brakes I knew it would result in a very precarious bailout that would likely see me banged up as a result, so I decided to just launch it (mentally processed in a nanosecond ), it was pretty close to 5-6 foot drop to barely any transition...so the fork did handle a good shot. I think that may have been the root of the symptoms....but I am going to keep an eye on it (I check it after every ride now)....but so far it seems to be ok.


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    Is the 120mm convertible to 100mm? I have been interested in trying one out for a while now. Once the thru-axle comes in stock, I believe Im going to pull the trigger.

    Thanks for your input.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnePointFive
    Is the 120mm convertible to 100mm? I have been interested in trying one out for a while now. Once the thru-axle comes in stock, I believe Im going to pull the trigger.

    Thanks for your input.

    Nope...not convertible afaik. There are three models, 80, 100, 120.


    R.
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  35. #35
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    Air and damping..

    Today I had a shot at the air side of the fork. I had previously set it at 100psi out of the box.
    As it turned out, this was fairly close to what I needed, but not right on the money.

    I set it up with 80psi and went riding.

    Out on the trail the fork felt great....incredible....so soft and sweet, soaked up every little bump. Too soft, as it turned out. I had to stop and pump it up to 90psi. That was better, but this fork still dives a lot when in the undamped position.

    Around 90 psi is correct for my weight though, so I left it at that and placed the platform damper on position 2. Position 1 is no damping, position 2 is some damping...etc.

    Now the fork reacted pretty well. I was still getting good travel on the biggest hits but it wasn't diving as much under the smaller ones and under brakes.

    I could hear the oil squirting through the ports in the damper inside the right hand side fork leg as it compressed. Overall, it was pretty good.



    Remember how I said that I wasn't going to change the oil from 5 weight to 2.5 weight until the fork was run in?

    I couldn't resist the temptation any longer, and as jnc had already done his fork, I thought..."what the hell....." so I went back home and did the dirty deed.

    Undid the top damper adjuster again, [didn't drop my balls this time ]... removed the top cap from the fork leg. I removed the Absolute Damper mechanism with it's three soft foam rings from the fork.... and simply upended the bike and poured all the stock 5 weight oil into a drain tray.



    Pumped the fork a few times to clear the bottom rebound damper section of oil, wiped the inside of the stanchion with a clean lint-free rag on a length of dowel, then....placed the bike upright again and poured in some clean 2.5 weight fork oil.

    Stopped when it was 100mm from the top of the fork, pumped the fork to get it to settle...topped it up again.

    Replaced the damper mechanism, the cap and adjuster, complete with springs and balls.

    All done, E Z.

    Okay... now go ride again.

    Better.......definitely better. The damper is now working more like a proper platform, with bigger steps between the settings. However, positions 3, 4, and 5 are still a bit too close, imo. 1, 2 and three are pretty good, but 3 and 4 are still too close...not enough difference.

    The fork itself with the lighter oil in it reacts faster and is even more supple than before. It is a real pleasure to ride this fork over rocks and roots, it soaks up everything easily.

    On my second test ride I was at 90psi in the left side [air] leg, no rebound damping, and no platform damping on the outward journey.
    On the way back, I placed the rebound damper in position 2 and left it there. Sweet...

    So then, my results are mirroring jnc's with his Manitou.

    The difference between us is that I never removed the three foam rings from the platform damper shaft in my fork.

    My findings so far then ......

    The fork responds favourably to a lighter weight oil as jnc has already found.
    Knowing what I now know to be true, if I was to start again with this fork from brand new, I would change the fork oil immediately to 2.5 weight fork oil before fitting it on the bike.

    I still have a stiction right at the very first part of the travel when the fork has been standing for a while. It's like the 'O' rings stick to the inners and you have to sort of nudge them into action right at the start ..... a bit like me...heheheh...

    I'm hopeful that this will disappear as the fork runs in.

    The Manitou 29 feels a LOT like a coil fork. It has hardly any apparent ramp-up like most air forks, the travel is smooth and almost linear right through the range when riding.

    It is a really smooth fork, and soaks up everything so well. The platform damper is now improved in it's action with the lighter weight oil, the graduations between the different settings more pronounced and useful.

    Overall, the lighter oil with the platform has improved the fork and how it rides to the point that all that remains is for me to run it in some more. I'm happy with the results so far.

    I guess that's about it for today.


    Stay tuned for more info tomorrow...



    R.
    It is inevitable ...

  36. #36
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    I mostly ride it with the damper in the #2 position. I find it is a good mix of compression to keep the fork higher up in its travel as I ride aggressively as well as resisting brake dive.

    I think I am going to go ahead and drill a couple of the ports out to a bigger bore & see if I can get more usefulness out of the range of platform adjustment. I agree...even with the lighter oil, any more then 3 clicks might as well be locked out.

    FWIW, I put a little grease on the tops of the detent springs to keep the balls in place...as many times as I have opened the fork up, this has been a very useful step


  37. #37
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    Hi, I got this fork too, it came with a show bike that I got at Interbike. I was wondering if someone can upload or post the owners manual. Thank you very much and your time is very much appreciated.

  38. #38
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    Here is the Manual. The print is very small, but I think that my camera got it all.

    There isn't really much in it.



    R.
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  39. #39
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    Last ones...


    R.
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  40. #40
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    Show Bike

    Quote Originally Posted by Goodshow Industries
    Hi, I got this fork too, it came with a show bike that I got at Interbike.
    1st post and it's about a bike(Intense 29er?)you got at I-Bike, and no fotos!
    Come on, cough-up some pix!
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
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  41. #41
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    Cool! Thanks for the manual Rainman.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by totally_fixxated
    1st post and it's about a bike(Intense 29er?)you got at I-Bike, and no fotos!
    Come on, cough-up some pix!
    Here are the pics Enjoy
    Attached Images Attached Images

  43. #43
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    Rebound Damping...

    This morning I was testing the rebound damping circuit on the bottom of the right hand side fork leg.

    Whilst the very light weight [2.5] fork oil is good for the Absolute Platform Damping feature, the same oil doesn't do much for the rebound damping, simply because it gets through the ports in the rebound damper too fast.

    The rebound damper only has about 70 degrees of rotation anyways, so I was never really expecting it to have a huge amount of influence on the way the fork behaves, but adding the very light oil has changed it to being not as effective in it's actions on the way the fork feels.

    As an experiment, I drained the fork again and re-filled it with 15 weight fork oil.

    The rebound damper liked that a LOT more, and functioned much better...but the Platform Damper didn't...

    Back to square one...lol.

    Well then....drained the fork again and added the correct amount of the recommended manufacturers 5 weight fork oil. This seems to be closer to the optimum setting for both the Platform and Rebound dampers, so far.

    In my opinion, the 15 weight oil would probably work fine in this fork IF the ports were a fraction larger in the platform damper mechanism. I actually much preferred the feel of the fork with the heavier oil in it than with the lightest stuff.

    With the light 2.5 weight oil in there, the fork is super plush but uses it's travel up pretty fast, meaning that you are obliged to use the Platform Damping to maintain a reasonable amount of leeway before bottoming over bumps.

    With the heavy oil, the fork is more stable and slightly slower in action, doesn't use all of it's travel so fast, and feels better without the Platform Damping engaged.

    5 Weight oil is on the lighter side of this equation, but I feel that it is probably the best overall solution for all round performance...generally.

    ***There are differences in fork oils too. One makers 2.5 weight is equal to another's 5 weight, it's all a bit of a lottery...

    Anyways, back to the rebound damper.....

    Don't expect huge differences from the rebound damper because the range of adjustments are small, and the actual feel from full rebound to none is pretty minimal, even though it can be felt working.

    What I am seeing here is that the rebound ports need to be smaller, and the Absolute Platform damping ports larger..

    The fork is quite "tune-able" though. Adding or decreasing the pressure on the air side of the fork is the real key to how the whole thing feels and reacts. The platform damper is really only a secondary back-up to this. Manitou recommends a certain level of sag for every rider weight, but this isn't set in concrete as far as i'm concerned, after my long experiences with the Reba.



    That's it for this morning ... another ride this afternoon with more testing.




    R.
    Last edited by Rainman; 10-23-2007 at 07:41 PM.
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  44. #44
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    I'm kind of surprised at your comments regarding the rebound. I felt absolutely the opposite. This fork is waaaay overdamped, top & bottom. This is coming from a guy with a background in DH riding/ racing and riding some of the better dampers money can buy. I was thrilled with the added rebound speed when I added the lighter oil. My fork finally came alive and was able to actually track the ground over the rough.....anyways, I found your comments very perplexing.

    I also did a little work this evening...taking the drill to the compression stack and opening the bores from around 1/16" to a full 5/64". I have only bounced on it in the basement, but preliminary results feel promising. It appears to have given me a bit more of a range through the middle of the adjustments....thrash testing to come.

    Here is a photo essay of the process (took me around 20 minutes to complete):

    Here is the removed stack still assembled



    Disassembled


    Another angle


    'Nuther


    Method to remove piston head


  45. #45
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    Hmmm..thats strange jnc, my rebound hardly works at all with the light oil..

    Maybe it's .... stuck..??

    I can see a complete teardown in my near future...

    Let me know the results of the bigger bores in the damper after you give it the thrash test, mate.

    This afternoon, I ran the fork with higher air pressures [110psi] no platform, no rebound, and it behaved nicely. Full travel on the sliders after the ride.. 5 weight fork oil....

    It's slowly getting better.


    R.
    It is inevitable ...

  46. #46
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    foto

    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter
    Method to remove piston head
    Nice one-handed camera work!
    PROFESSIONAL THREAD KILLER!



    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    Maybe I will just start hanging out in the "Recycle Bin" forum.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by totally_fixxated
    Nice one-handed camera work!


  48. #48
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    Hey jnc...what torque settings are you using for the fork?

    For instance...the rebound damper rod on the bottom of the right hand side fork lower under the blue rebound knob is a large 8mm allen key. What torque?

    The black bolt on the left hand side bottom lower ... what torque?

    I noticed also that my top cap platform damper tends to loosen itself off a bit after a few runs..what torque on that?


    Thanks,


    R.
    It is inevitable ...

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman
    Hey jnc...what torque settings are you using for the fork?

    For instance...the rebound damper rod on the bottom of the right hand side fork lower under the blue rebound knob is a large 8mm allen key. What torque?

    The black bolt on the left hand side bottom lower ... what torque?

    I noticed also that my top cap platform damper tends to loosen itself off a bit after a few runs..what torque on that?


    Thanks,


    R.
    Torque?
    I use "the force"

    Seriously...I have no idea on torque specs. After working on this stuff for what seems like...forever, I guess it's just a bit intuitive. I am doubtful you could get those numbers even if you did get ahold of someone in the tech dept. (something I have been yet unable to accomplish).

    Not sure I know what you're referring to by "top cap platform damper"...


  50. #50
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    Anyone tried calling customer service yet....to see if anyone answers?

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Padre
    Anyone tried calling customer service yet....to see if anyone answers?
    I wore the corresponding numbers off my phone buttons. Left messages even.....


  52. #52
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    hello?

    Quote Originally Posted by Padre
    Anyone tried calling customer service yet....to see if anyone answers?
    Excellent customer service when they were(Answer)in Valencia.
    Maybe no so good with Hayes now, apparently?
    PROFESSIONAL THREAD KILLER!



    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    Maybe I will just start hanging out in the "Recycle Bin" forum.

  53. #53
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    Have you guys considered

    Mixing the 5 weight with the 2.5 weight? From what im reading theres pro and cons to using either.. but no mention of mixing the two. I did this on a XR and it worked well..

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by totally_fixxated
    Excellent customer service when they were(Answer)in Valencia.
    Maybe no so good with Hayes now, apparently?
    I think it has somewhat to do with timing....they were/ are in the midst of moving facilities. Hopefully things will improve.


  55. #55
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    "The Force" .....hmmm .... ok.


    Here then jnc... is the black nut on the bottom of your left hand [air side] fork leg tightened down?

    Mine just turns around and around without getting tight..


    PS: Nvm...I worked it out this morning...


    Luke.
    Last edited by Rainman; 10-24-2007 at 05:00 PM.
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  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman
    "The Force" .....hmmm .... ok.


    Here then jnc... is the black nut on the bottom of your left hand [air side] fork leg tightened down?

    Mine just turns around and around without getting tight..


    PS: Nvm...I worked it out this morning...


    Luke.
    Try NOT, DO or do not...

    Love,
    Yogurt


  57. #57
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    Upset Bleahhhhh....

    I still can't work out why your rebound damper seemed "over damped" and mine barely has any effect, jnc.

    Another thing...after a couple of rides, my top screw-down caps on top of the fork legs get ...not loose, but they tend to not stay tight. I've tightened them up several times already.

    At least I got the rod under the rebound damper tightened up, but the air side ... that bolt on the bottom of the air side fork leg...meh ....

    I would give a left nut for a proper service manual...


    R.
    It is inevitable ...

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman
    I still can't work out why your rebound damper seemed "over damped" and mine barely has any effect, jnc.

    Another thing...after a couple of rides, my top screw-down caps on top of the fork legs get ...not loose, but they tend to not stay tight. I've tightened them up several times already.

    At least I got the rod under the rebound damper tightened up, but the air side ... that bolt on the bottom of the air side fork leg...meh ....

    I would give a left nut for a proper service manual...


    R.
    Rebound? No idea bro. I ride alot of high speed chop...rocks & roots. I like the rebound on the faster side. I run ~110 psi & the fork barely feels like the rebound is fast enough full out (2.5wt). If you're riding slower techy stuff, maybe you like it slower. If you compare the rebound speed to a marzocchi @ full out....night & day. Zoke is light greased lightning compared to this fork.

    FWIW, my top caps have never loosened...ever. Technically I could still spin the black foot nut (barely), but it just tightens onto the spacer on that side. As long as it is relatively snug...you're good.

    FYI, if you decide to remove the lowers...the bolt holding on the rebound side is reverse threaded.


  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goodshow Industries
    Here are the pics Enjoy
    Holy Saddlebag, Batman!

  60. #60
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    New question here.

    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter
    Rebound? No idea bro. I ride alot of high speed chop...rocks & roots. I like the rebound on the faster side. I run ~110 psi & the fork barely feels like the rebound is fast enough full out (2.5wt). If you're riding slower techy stuff, maybe you like it slower. If you compare the rebound speed to a marzocchi @ full out....night & day. Zoke is light greased lightning compared to this fork.

    FWIW, my top caps have never loosened...ever. Technically I could still spin the black foot nut (barely), but it just tightens onto the spacer on that side. As long as it is relatively snug...you're good.

    FYI, if you decide to remove the lowers...the bolt holding on the rebound side is reverse threaded.

    Ya see? totally different ....

    I ride lots of high speed roots, rocks and steps. I usually have my rebound wound out, or right off in other words...no rebound damping at all because I like the fork to react fast to the trail input. It was the same with my other forks i've used in the past...fast rebound = good ..

    However, if I do wind the rebound knob full on ... the difference is minimal.

    Very strange ....

    I pulled the lowers early this morning, couldn't find anything wrong inside... put it all back together and went for a ride this arvo.

    The fork still impresses me, it is very nice to ride. It allows me to go to the limit on the RIP 9, it absolutely flies downhills...

    I also like the slightly higher handlebar position with the Manitou.

    I was running 100psi today which was pretty good.

    It's getting to the point where I can see the end of this review/test. There isn't a great deal left to work out I don't think.

    Another few hours run-in will just about do the trick. Then i'll write up my conclusions.



    R.
    It is inevitable ...

  61. #61
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    Caution;  Merge;  Workers Ahead! Manitou Minute 29 Absolute....Conclusions.

    This fork reveals itself after 20+ odd hours of run-in.

    Today's ride ended in a huge thunderstorm with plenty of lightning flashing around. I was at the far end of a trail when I heard the thunder and saw the first flashes of the lightning with the approaching front. It started to get quite dark as the black clouds spread over head...

    I had to race the storm home, so I pulled out all the stops, forgot the brakes, and let her rip.

    A few drops of rain had the roots and rocks slick in no time, but the trail itself was perfect, like velcro, slightly damp but not yet wet.

    I hammered those forks over everything, no mercy... I made no attempt to spare them, not lifting the front end over logs or rocks, just slamming the front wheel into everything in front of me.

    The Minute 29 soaked it all up without a single fault. I could hear the rear Fox RP23 as it squished up and down over the bumps, it was working hard. The front fork was copping a real thrashing.

    No platform damping, no rebound damping, 100psi and 5 weight oil = full plush travel. I gave it heaps!

    This fork has slowly improved with the hours I have spent running it in.

    I must say right from the start that it isn't perfect. There are some strange differences between my fork and JNC's, but apart from a couple of little niggly things, i'm very happy to have this fork on the front of my RIP 9.

    Today's mad dash proved it to me. I was on the edge most of the time during the ride back through some very rough and sometimes tight trail and this fork never put a wheel wrong.

    The strange stiction right at the start of the travel has worked itself out, as the fork has more hours put on it. The O rings have worked themselves in a bit I suspect, and now the fork is just smooth and plush.

    I changed the oil in it several times, experimenting with different viscosity ratings and weights, but in the end I went back to the manufacturers recommended rating of 5 weight .... with 85-150 Maxima Fork Fluid. The fork seems to like this stuff...

    Pull-Down:

    I pulled the fork apart to check the component parts inside, there were no real surprises for me except how simple it all was.

    Changing oil was very easy, just remove the platform adjuster, the two ball bearings under the adjuster, the springs they sit on, then take a socket to the top cap, unscrew it, pour out the oil by leaning the bike over a drain pan and then pour the new stuff in. Re-assemble. Pretty E Z.

    The left hand side of the fork from a riders point of view houses the air chamber and a small coil spring. There is no fork oil in this leg, but everything is covered in a generous coating of M-prep.

    The only adjustment on this side is the air pressure. I experimented with different pressures between 80psi and 115+psi and settled on 100psi for my weight...[165lb].

    On the right hand side you have Rebound on the bottom of the lower, and Platform Damping on the top.

    This is where it got really interesting for me, because my rebound didn't have the same influence as JNC's did, hardly any difference in damping between full off and full on were felt, and even though I can feel a slight difference between these positions on the damper, it still eludes me as to why our two Minute 29 forks are so different.

    The Platform Damper definitely does work though, in fact, it works rather too well, if anything.

    There are five positions on the adjuster, each one representing a more positive platform ... or firmer feel with each click.

    The main problem is .... there isn't really that much difference between positions 3, 4, and 5. Now don't get me wrong, there is some difference, but it's not huge.

    Positions 2 and 3 are pretty good though...especially position 2. Position 1 is no platform damping, position 2 is some damping, and so on...

    I mostly rode this fork in position 1 or 2, then skipped straight to position 5 ...full lockout.

    I found that 3 and 4 were not much use to me.

    This may change as the fork gets even more miles and hours on it, but I don't know...

    Flex:

    My Minute 29 is a QR model, and I purposely got this one instead of the TA simply because I wanted a direct comparison with the Reba. I wanted to compare apples to apples...or as close to it as I could get, anyways.

    I can honestly say that this fork is stiffer than a Reba. It doesn't flex as much. This is readily apparent when riding fast on off-camber slopes over roots and rocks...the Manitou tracks better and flexes less.

    Travel:

    Lovely ...120mm's of plush linear travel with only a little ramp-up near the limit of the fork. This 29'er feels a LOT like a full coil fork. It is really nice over the roots and rocks, there are no sudden impacts or OMG! feelings at all, just a very sweet cushioning of the trail. If you feel that the fork is diving too much under hard downhill braking, position two sorts that out very well on the platform damper.

    Air:

    I have come to believe the key to this fork lies mostly in the air pressures...and not so much in the platform damping. Both are important, but it is after all an AIR fork, and should be tuned as such. Finding your ideal air pressure for the job at hand will go a long way to you enjoying this fork. The platform is a back-up to the air side, and can be used to prevent some diving of the fork if needed, but the main aim is to fine tune the air volume to suit the trails and rider style/weight.

    Through Axle:

    The TA version of this fork really stiffens up the front end. The nice beefy through axle is strong and holds the lowers solidly together.

    Brakes:

    You will need to purchase an adapter because this fork is a post-mount unless you are happy running the standard 90mm rotor. Anything over 90mm wont fit without an adapter. 185mm is nice on this fork, and if you are into "overkill", it will take a 203mm safely.


    The Bottom Line:


    The real test for just about any component is .... "Would I buy another one of these?"

    My answer is : Yes.



    There is a very limited number of longer travel 29'er forks currently available on the market. This one, the Manitou Minute 29 is very probably the best value for money right now for the majority of riders. This will change eventually, but right now the only real competition is the WB Fluid 135, which costs a lot more than the Manitou...

    It's not the best fork I have ever ridden, but it is very good value for the money and it's intended purpose. Sure, it has a couple of little faults that may or may not bother most riders, but generally it's performance is sweet.

    The extra 20mm may not sound like much over a 100mm Reba, but it definitely does make a difference. That extra 20mm lets you go harder and faster with a bigger margin for error, and it simply soaks up more bumps.

    I'm impressed with this fork. It does very well on a medium travel FS / AM bike. I would say that it covers 3" to 5" travel FS bikes pretty well...and it doesn't cost an arm and a leg to get it on your bike, either.

    The only possible problem right now is getting your hands on one, as they seem to be in short supply, but I heard that a new shipment is due to hit the shops shortly.




    That's about it for me then on this fork. I'll be keeping it on the RIP 9 for a while until something else comes along, as i'm quite happy with the performance.


    If anything goes wrong with it i'll let everyone know.


    Thanks for reading....


    R.


    [Disclaimer: I have no connections or affiliations with the manufacturer of this fork.]
    It is inevitable ...

  62. #62
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    Thank you so much for the writeup! My first ride on the 20mm version is this weekend Can't wait!!

  63. #63
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    Guys, thanks for all the detailed analysis. I won't be also to ride mine until next weekend - still missing some other parts for the bike build;( Seeing it apart gives me confidence to tinker w/ mine.

    Rainman, how does the rebound adjuster work (hard to tell from the pics)? Is it covering up ports or a needle valve type? If ports, might make sense to make the holes more progressive in size to give a wider rebound range?

  64. #64
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    Rainmain, I wanted to get your opinion on Reba coil conversion vs the Manitou for the RIP9. I'm currently running dual air on my 100mm Reba and am not very satisfied with it. On steep rocky/rooty descents, the bike tracks like @$$ unless I crank up the positive to something like 165 psi (~200 lbs full dress weight). But then I lose small bump compliance. If I do the exact same section on my Yeti 575 with a 130mm Fox Vanilla, I can bomb it with no tracking issues whatsoever and still have nice small bump compliance. So, you think the coil conversion is enough to solve the techy downhill problems I'm having or is the Manitou a better route to go?

    It's kinda embarrasing that I bomb a section on my 26er only to pull up and walk my 29er down it. I guess if I get desperate enough, there's always WB...but that's such a step up cost.

  65. #65
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    If they would just get the oil levels right, I wouldn't be loosing things!

    I finally had some time to put my new RIP9 together, so I headed over to the shop today. First thing to do, I decided, was make sure the oil level was proper in the fork, since I had read in this thread and others that it was likely to be low from the factory.

    Even after having read Rainman's warning about the two little bearings under the cap, I managed to drop them on the floor. Luckily, since I was prepared, even though I still dropped them, I watched them all the way down, so I didn't loose either of them (a pretty good feat in our shop!). What I wasn't prepared for was were the little springs the balls sit on. One of them fell on the floor. Thankfully, after about 20 minutes of searching (with two others helping me), I managed to find it. Now that I had all the parts back, I was ready to proceed.

    Sure enough, there was at least 150mm down to the oil, and the manual calls for 100-110. So I added some 5w oil and put it all together.

    Haven't got the bike all together, yet, so no chance to test the fork.

    It IS getting pretty tiring that none of the major fork manufacturers can fill their forks to spec'ed oil levels. I have either seen the same issue with Manitou, Marzocchi, Fox, Rockshox forks or read of others having such an issue on mtbr boards. Why do they bother giving specs if they can't even do it properly themselves?

  66. #66
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    New question here. Which fork

    Rainman,

    Great review


    If price is not a consideration which fork performs better WB Fluid 135 or the Minute 29er?

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Foot
    Rainman,

    Great review


    If price is not a consideration which fork performs better WB Fluid 135 or the Minute 29er?
    I have not yet tested the WB Fluid 135, but I plan to soon. I'll run a direct comparision of the Manitou and the White Bros.

    It depends on when I can get one down here....i'm at the bottom of the world, and things take a while to get here in AU...


    However .... if price was not a consideration I would probably go with the WB 135, simply because it has a little more travel.

    The guys who are riding this WB 135 are all reliable reporters and decent riders, and thay all give it the thumbs up so far... so I guess that it must be at least as good as the Manitou, if not better.

    I'm currently making enquiries about obtaining one for testing, but it's slow going so far.

    With any sort of luck, I should have one in a week or two, then we can begin a head to head test.



    R.
    Last edited by Rainman; 10-28-2007 at 05:59 PM.
    It is inevitable ...

  68. #68
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    Guys,
    Almost got the bike fully built... Im getting ~1" of easy travel even when the fork is in full lockout. That means I don't have enough oil right?

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by smdubovsky
    Guys,
    Almost got the bike fully built... Im getting ~1" of easy travel even when the fork is in full lockout. That means I don't have enough oil right?
    ...that's exactly what it means. Top it up & you should be golden


  70. #70
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    Tnx! Ok, next question. I've never rebuilt a mtb fork before. Is the 100mm from top w/ the fork compressed or extended? (for a motorcycle it would be the compressed level w/o the springs installed.) I obviously have to remove the piston right? I've got it out now and can't figure out how to fill it w/ it in.

    If I fill it 100mm from the top w/ the fork extended, adding the piston will bring the oil level up to - say 80mm from the top. Wouldn't this hydrolock the fork @ 80mm into its travel?

  71. #71
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    NO. Oil can easily be beyond the piston head. Fill it & be done.


  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by smdubovsky
    Tnx! Ok, next question. I've never rebuilt a mtb fork before. Is the 100mm from top w/ the fork compressed or extended? (for a motorcycle it would be the compressed level w/o the springs installed.) I obviously have to remove the piston right? I've got it out now and can't figure out how to fill it w/ it in.

    If I fill it 100mm from the top w/ the fork extended, adding the piston will bring the oil level up to - say 80mm from the top. Wouldn't this hydrolock the fork @ 80mm into its travel?
    As JNC sez....

    Carefully remove the Damper stack from the top of the fork leg using a gentle twisting motion as you sloooowly pull it up past the threads...after you have first removed the adjuster dial, ball bearings, and small springs.

    There will be some oil in the bottom of the damper stack, so have a rag ready...

    Once you have the damper assembly out of the fork, add the oil to the interior of the leg until it measures 100mm from the top.

    Re-fit the damper stack after you grease the O ring at the very top of the damper [under the top cap] with a little M-Prep. If no M-Prep is available, use some fork fluid.

    Re-fit damper stack and tighten the top cap down.

    Now it should all work like it was designed to.



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  73. #73
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    Good job! Set Up.

    Set up your air pressure in the left hand fork leg depending on your riding weight, where you ride and how you ride.

    It's trial and error at first, although you can do the basic setup with sag as recommended by the Manitou manual to get you in the ball park.

    I found that using the method in the manual gave me pressures that were too low for my style and locations, so I upped them a bit after a couple of miles.

    Expect the fork to have a little stiction because it is new and everything needs time to run in a bit.

    Ride it...tune it...as you ride.



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    Last edited by Rainman; 11-01-2007 at 10:48 PM.
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  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman
    Set up your air pressure in the right hand fork leg...
    Surely, you meant the LEFT leg


  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter
    Surely, you meant the LEFT leg
    Thanks mate...I guess i'm still dizzy from today's incredibly good ride.

    Yeah, I meant the LEFT leg....not the right, nor the middle ...the Left one.



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  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rotmilky
    Rainmain, I wanted to get your opinion on Reba coil conversion vs the Manitou for the RIP9. I'm currently running dual air on my 100mm Reba and am not very satisfied with it. On steep rocky/rooty descents, the bike tracks like @$$ unless I crank up the positive to something like 165 psi (~200 lbs full dress weight). But then I lose small bump compliance. If I do the exact same section on my Yeti 575 with a 130mm Fox Vanilla, I can bomb it with no tracking issues whatsoever and still have nice small bump compliance. So, you think the coil conversion is enough to solve the techy downhill problems I'm having or is the Manitou a better route to go?

    It's kinda embarrasing that I bomb a section on my 26er only to pull up and walk my 29er down it. I guess if I get desperate enough, there's always WB...but that's such a step up cost.

    Sorry I missed your post mate...I was so involved with getting the Manitou tuned up that I didn't see your question.

    In my opinion, as good as the Reba is with the full coil conversion, the Manitou is definitely better on the RIP 9.

    Reasons?

    Because you get what the Reba lacks ..... more travel, more stiffness, [especially with the through axle] air tuning, and variable damping.

    The Manitou is very good value for the $$$'s and fits the RIP 9 well.


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    Got the bike all together (yay! first 29er), put more oil in it in the fork and shes good to go. First thoughts riding around in the yard: Needs more compression damping = thicker oil (compared to my Fox - the only fork I've ever put lots of time on.) Front end is so squishy its going to take some getting used to - Im not used to a 'super supple' fork. Personal preference thats all - who knows maybe I'll learn to love it this way? I'm having trouble getting the front end off the ground - the fork absorbs my weight shift far too fast. Definitely going to have to use a couple clicks of platform damping to prevent from biting it on the first log until I adjust my technique. I can see it now: Me lifting, getting no result, front tire goes straight into log vs over, me going over the bars Anyway, the big ride is this Sun so I'll post more then.

    Thanks guys!

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by smdubovsky
    Got the bike all together (yay! first 29er), put more oil in it in the fork and shes good to go. First thoughts riding around in the yard: Needs more compression damping = thicker oil (compared to my Fox - the only fork I've ever put lots of time on.) Front end is so squishy its going to take some getting used to - Im not used to a 'super supple' fork. Personal preference thats all - who knows maybe I'll learn to love it this way? I'm having trouble getting the front end off the ground - the fork absorbs my weight shift far too fast. Definitely going to have to use a couple clicks of platform damping to prevent from biting it on the first log until I adjust my technique. I can see it now: Me lifting, getting no result, front tire goes straight into log vs over, me going over the bars Anyway, the big ride is this Sun so I'll post more then.

    Thanks guys!

    Make sure you get enough air pressure in that fork. It helps a lot.

    Second click position on the platform stops a LOT of that 'dive' too, but air pressure is your first and most important aim.


    Have fun...


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  79. #79
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    Ok, Im beat Ran a 5k yesterday (for the first time in 10yrs) and there wasn't much gas left in the ol' legs today. Nevertheless, the 29er did well in its debut. Again, I don't have tons to compare it too, but the manitou is plenty stiff torsionally as well as laterally. Never even a hint of brake tuck/hop like I experienced on a reba (again, only rode one of those ~10min but it was what jumped out at me).

    My biggest observation: Yesterday while riding around the yard I thought it had too little compression damping (it does), its quite obvious it has FAR too much high speed compression damping. Flying down on small root/rock sections its MUCH harsher than my fox. Its almost like riding a rigid fork - was absolutely just beating my hands to death. Conclusion: Too little low speed + too much high speed compression damping.

    Looking back at JNCs pics (and what I saw when putting more oil in), its using fixed orifices for the compression holes and not a shim stack that would allow digressive valving. I can see why JNC runs 2.5wt oil. IMO, Something absolutely has to be done to tame the high speed. When I get time Im going to take the piston completely apart and see what can be reengineered (luckily I can make parts like the piston at the house). Maybe a larger set of holes can be drilled above the existing ones or the existing ones 'shaped' to make it more digressive. Worst case, I'll take my fox apart and see how they did the shims

    Im not trying to knock the fork. It has some great attributes (and in the >=120mm TA category its one of VERY few avail (WB & maverick are the only competitors?)) But its damping technology is definitely a step behind a more modern fork. (FWIW, I race cars (porsches and bmws w/ NASA) and *ALL* automotive and motorcycle shocks use digressive valving nowadays. It now easy for me to see why.)

  80. #80
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    That sounds interesting...please keep us up-to-date on your developments with the valving.


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  81. #81
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    R, JNC,
    Looks like there have been updates to the internals. The obvious one is they are now annodized (big deal). The not so obvious is that JNC said he drilled the holes 'around 1/16"(1.59mm) to a full 5/64"(1.98mm)' As you can see in the 2nd pic, my holes are ALREADY 1.97mm.

    FWIW, the compression orifice through the center of the piston is 3.40mm. So, the 6x 1.97 holes have ~2x the combined area of the center hole. Not a huge ratio, but the center port is becoming the limiting factor (w/ a fully open valve the center hole will provide 2/3 of the restriction and the outside holes will be the remaining 1/3.)

    The "TPC lockout" is definitely a fixed orifice damper. They call it a needle valve (but it isn't really. Just a spring backed plunger w/ adjustable preload.) Does anyone know if a TPC or TPC+ shim stack cartridge from another 32mm fork will screw right in? It looks like people can easily swap SPV/SPVE/TPC/etc internals in other 26" minute/nixon/etc 32mm forks. Im not ready to go that route yet but it would be nice to know there are options.

    There is a TON of stiction in the o-rings that hold both the brass plunger and red piston. It sounds like other TPC pistons (around 2005??) were upgraded from o-rings to bushings to reduce stiction.
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  82. #82
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    My damper stack and valve is exactly the same as yours.

    I thought about placing a lighter spring in my plunger, and / or opening the ports up a bit but didn't do so because I wanted to keep my testing of the fork and internals limited only to oil changes to be fair to the manufacturer.

    What I can tell you all is that my fork just keeps getting better as it gains more miles.

    The only complaint that I have is the "click-click-click" sound that the spring-loaded valve head makes as it contacts the valve seat inside the damper when you have the damper engaged.

    Apart from that small thing, the fork is performing very well for me, and I am punishing it every chance I get to see if it will fail.

    Yesterday I rode in a torrential downpour of rain and looked like a drowned rat by the time I got back home... but the fork didn't let me down.

    A lot of the new O ring stiction that you are experiencing now will slowly go away as you ride the fork in more.


    R.
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  83. #83
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    Can anyone point me to the A to C measurement for the 100mm and the 120mm?

  84. #84
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    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=344920
    manitou minute 80/100/120 = 490/510/530mm respectively

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by smdubovsky
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=344920
    manitou minute 80/100/120 = 490/510/530mm respectively
    Thank you.

  86. #86
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    I've read through this thread a couple times and just can't seem to find when we can expect to see the first shipments hit distributors. sorry and thanks for the info if available.

  87. #87
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    AFAIK, The 120s are avail in several places. Bought mine @ bitterbrushcycles ~2-3 weeks ago - was in stock & received it a few days later. Bike29 has them on their website too. The 80s & 100s have been on ebay, so somebodies got them.

  88. #88
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    Torque off

    Hey Gang-

    I've been in contact with a sus engineer at Manitou as I get more time on my 100 and 120mm forks.

    He sent this torque chart and I thought more than one of you might benefit from it.

    Frustrated with the overdamped feel on both compression and rebound, I dumped the stock oil and refilled with 2.5wt. Immediately a smoother feel with less of the overdamped feeling--in both directions. Big enough difference that I ended up adding ~22psi to compensate--it had become so linear that I was blowing through the travel too easily. At this point I'm very happy with the compression stroke, but looking to get a bit more speed out of the rebound.

    All was well for about 4 rides, then something changed--it got cold outside.

    At sub-freezing temps the 2.5wt Finish Line shock oil is pretty sludgy. I asked the engineer for suggestions and he gave me a short dissertation on how 'all fork oils are not created equal'. Here's a quote:

    I was rebuilding a set of dirt bike forks for an ice racer. It was about 5 degrees F in my unheated garage, and the forks had been there overnight. I tipped the fork over to pour out the old oil, and it literally poured like cold honey. It was factory suspension fluid. Wondering about the Silkolene, I immediately opened a bottle and poured some out…it flowed just like normal. Also, in dyno testing, I found that a few clicks on the rebound adjuster would account for the difference in performance between 5 degrees F and 70 degrees F. I also found that running the fork at high velocity for 1/2 hour did almost nothing to warm up the fluid.

    Moral of the story…oils are not the same, and forks will not warm up in cold weather.


    I ended up ordering some Silkolene in 2.5 and 5wt. Should be here in time for a Moab trip this wknd.

    MC
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  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee
    Hey Gang-

    I've been in contact with a sus engineer at Manitou as I get more time on my 100 and 120mm forks.

    He sent this torque chart and I thought more than one of you might benefit from it.

    Frustrated with the overdamped feel on both compression and rebound, I dumped the stock oil and refilled with 2.5wt. Immediately a smoother feel with less of the overdamped feeling--in both directions. Big enough difference that I ended up adding ~22psi to compensate--it had become so linear that I was blowing through the travel too easily. At this point I'm very happy with the compression stroke, but looking to get a bit more speed out of the rebound.

    All was well for about 4 rides, then something changed--it got cold outside.

    At sub-freezing temps the 2.5wt Finish Line shock oil is pretty sludgy. I asked the engineer for suggestions and he gave me a short dissertation on how 'all fork oils are not created equal'. Here's a quote:

    I was rebuilding a set of dirt bike forks for an ice racer. It was about 5 degrees F in my unheated garage, and the forks had been there overnight. I tipped the fork over to pour out the old oil, and it literally poured like cold honey. It was factory suspension fluid. Wondering about the Silkolene, I immediately opened a bottle and poured some out…it flowed just like normal. Also, in dyno testing, I found that a few clicks on the rebound adjuster would account for the difference in performance between 5 degrees F and 70 degrees F. I also found that running the fork at high velocity for 1/2 hour did almost nothing to warm up the fluid.

    Moral of the story…oils are not the same, and forks will not warm up in cold weather.


    I ended up ordering some Silkolene in 2.5 and 5wt. Should be here in time for a Moab trip this wknd.

    MC



    Thanks for that input, Mike.


    Unlike you and jnc, my compression and rebound damping don't work quite the same. My compression damping is similiar to both of yours, but has improved markedly over the weeks of riding the fork.

    On the other hand, my rebound damping knob has never had a great deal of effect on the damping at all.

    Very strange....

    I can understand the effect of cold on some oils, I have read of similar problems with owners of Rohloff Speedhubs in Alaskan conditions.

    Anyways, it will be good to hear what you think of the Manitou after you have run it for a while.

    Thanks for re-posting the torque chart.



    R.
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  90. #90
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    Thanks to both of you M and R, I'm going to be putting a longer fork on my Sultan, so I'm eagerly awaiting feedback both of your opinions on the WB F135 vs the Manitou 120.

  91. #91
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    to Silkolene oils. That is all I use in my bikes and my moto. Seems to hold up well also. I did not like the Finish line oil as for mentioned above and seemed to break down quick- turned a nice dark grey color after about 4-5 months.

    Good info Mikesee.

    Matto

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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter
    Do you get a "clicking" sound when you have any level of platform engaged? Goes away when you open the compression all the way.
    Yes, this seems to be the case on every fork so far. Mine is sometimes intermittent but it hasn't failed to reappear yet.

    Here's what the M folks have to say about it:
    We are actively working to resolve the clicking issue. It is the opening and closing of the compression circuitry. It is not a performance issue, but it is certainly a customer satisfaction issue.

    I'll let you know where that goes.

    JNC--when you opened up the bores in the compression stack, what (if any) change did this make with the clicking? I don't wanna change the compression I have going unless I have to...

    Thanks,

    MC

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee
    JNC--when you opened up the bores in the compression stack, what (if any) change did this make with the clicking?
    Nada. Mine is intermittent as well. Sometimes relatively quiet...other times, CLICK, CLICK, CLICK! Make sure you lube the orings with a healthy smattering of M-prep if you pull it apart. It does help somewhat.

    I still would like a greater range of compression adjustment...maybe when I am fully recovered from the most recent shoulder surgery, I will attempt to drill a couple more holes, offset just a bit further down. We'll see.


  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter
    Nada. Mine is intermittent as well. Sometimes relatively quiet...other times, CLICK, CLICK, CLICK! Make sure you lube the orings with a healthy smattering of M-prep if you pull it apart. It does help somewhat.

    OK. In your pics the foam rings are gone--assuming you put 'em back on for reassembly?

    Thanks,

    MC

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee
    OK. In your pics the foam rings are gone--assuming you put 'em back on for reassembly?

    Thanks,

    MC
    I have run them in & out with no noticeable difference. I leave them out.


  96. #96
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    On the subject of viscosity...

    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee
    Hey Gang-

    I've been in contact with a sus engineer at Manitou as I get more time on my 100 and 120mm forks.

    He sent this torque chart and I thought more than one of you might benefit from it.

    Frustrated with the overdamped feel on both compression and rebound, I dumped the stock oil and refilled with 2.5wt. Immediately a smoother feel with less of the overdamped feeling--in both directions. Big enough difference that I ended up adding ~22psi to compensate--it had become so linear that I was blowing through the travel too easily. At this point I'm very happy with the compression stroke, but looking to get a bit more speed out of the rebound.

    All was well for about 4 rides, then something changed--it got cold outside.

    At sub-freezing temps the 2.5wt Finish Line shock oil is pretty sludgy. I asked the engineer for suggestions and he gave me a short dissertation on how 'all fork oils are not created equal'. Here's a quote:

    I was rebuilding a set of dirt bike forks for an ice racer. It was about 5 degrees F in my unheated garage, and the forks had been there overnight. I tipped the fork over to pour out the old oil, and it literally poured like cold honey. It was factory suspension fluid. Wondering about the Silkolene, I immediately opened a bottle and poured some out…it flowed just like normal. Also, in dyno testing, I found that a few clicks on the rebound adjuster would account for the difference in performance between 5 degrees F and 70 degrees F. I also found that running the fork at high velocity for 1/2 hour did almost nothing to warm up the fluid.

    Moral of the story…oils are not the same, and forks will not warm up in cold weather.


    I ended up ordering some Silkolene in 2.5 and 5wt. Should be here in time for a Moab trip this wknd.

    MC
    ...here's an interesting read I came across a couple of years ago from a motorcycle tuner on the subject of suspension fluids.
    http://www.peterverdonedesigns.com/lowspeed.htm
    http://www.peterverdonedesigns.com/bikesuspension.htm

  97. #97
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    Any updates on how to make the annoying clicking sound go away?

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torque Wrench
    Any updates on how to make the annoying clicking sound go away?



    No, not as yet. The "click" is made because the brass valve contacts the alloy seat when the damper is engaged, and is part and parcel of the fork.

    Manitou are aware of the problem, they say that the "clicking" doesn't affect the fork action [true] but that it may affect the rider...[mostly true].

    My guess is that apart from bringing out a modified replaceable valve part with a soft 'head' we will have to live with the clicking until Manitou release an improved, modified model in their next 120 Minute fork.



    R.
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  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman
    I read your thread on this fork with interest, JNC.

    Did you replace the foam rings on the damper which you previously removed?

    Since topping up my damper oil, the fork seems to be functioning quite well so far, apart from the stiction at the start of the compression cycle.

    I plan to ride this fork in during next week, so we shall see how it goes with some hours on it for me.

    Thanks for the comments...


    R.
    any idea what purpose those foam rings serve?
    my fork was over the recommended level by about 30cc, wonder if thats how much oil those 3 foam rings soak up?
    it's been running smoother and smoother after each ride, best feeling air fork i've owned so far.

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    Thanks for the reply Rainman! FYI -- my Minute came with a rubberized cone in the valve and it still makes a lot of noise.

  101. #101
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    How much noise?

    I'm looking at one of these forks for my SS, but don't want one if it interferes with the peaceful quiet of the chainslapless, gear skipping free experience!

    How loud are we talking?
    Dirtbag since '89

  102. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torque Wrench
    Thanks for the reply Rainman! FYI -- my Minute came with a rubberized cone in the valve and it still makes a lot of noise.
    ...rubberized cone? Are you sure you're not mistaking that for the rubber O-ring?


  103. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter
    ...rubberized cone? Are you sure you're not mistaking that for the rubber O-ring?
    The small conical portion of the spring loaded brass plunger is made of, or coated with, a black rubber like material. The material is very firm. I got my fork about 2 weeks ago.

  104. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singletrack Pig
    I'm looking at one of these forks for my SS, but don't want one if it interferes with the peaceful quiet of the chainslapless, gear skipping free experience!

    How loud are we talking?
    noise reminds me of the old fox vanilla 125's, with the rattling spring, before the added the shrink wrap on em.

  105. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torque Wrench
    The small conical portion of the spring loaded brass plunger is made of, or coated with, a black rubber like material. The material is very firm. I got my fork about 2 weeks ago.
    Interesting for sure. Tho, I find it a bit odd that the noise would persist (at least not loudly).


  106. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by staz
    any idea what purpose those foam rings serve?
    my fork was over the recommended level by about 30cc, wonder if thats how much oil those 3 foam rings soak up?
    it's been running smoother and smoother after each ride, best feeling air fork i've owned so far.


    The foam rings are meant to help keep the stanchions lubed. They [the rings] are supposed to absorb fork oil and then to spread it evenly on the sliders to keep everything from sticking. Rockshox Reba use the same setup.


    R.
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  107. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torque Wrench
    The small conical portion of the spring loaded brass plunger is made of, or coated with, a black rubber like material. The material is very firm. I got my fork about 2 weeks ago.

    Did you by any chance...take a pic of it?


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  108. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by PuddleDuck
    Thanks to both of you M and R, I'm going to be putting a longer fork on my Sultan, so I'm eagerly awaiting feedback both of your opinions on the WB F135 vs the Manitou 120.

    My Comparison on these two forks is here:



    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=3879252


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    Of course not! It looks like SoCal is going to get rained out for a while so I'll pop the top and take a photo.

  110. #110
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    Hey, what are your weight's and pressure's your running. I've done a handfull of rides on the fork and started with 100psi, too soft and dived a lot, up'd it to 125 and have done a few rides. Feels pretty good but still a tad bit of dive and I used 95% of the travel on a regular trail ride yesterday.

    I'm 200, maybe more post holidays, I'm gonna try more air but should I check the oil volume, sounds like you guys are the same weight or heavier and are running less psi. I haven't really tried much of the platform adj, either on or off, can't stand the noise, should I try a click or 2 and just deal w/ the knocking?

    Thx for the help

    BTW, no info in the manual or online for spring setup based on weight, just the sag recomendation

  111. #111
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    I'm 185 with gear and I'm currently running the fork at 110 psi. I like the way the fork performs, but the knocking sound really bothers me. I use about 85% travel on rough fast downhills with some rock steps, but no drops. Mine makes noise even with no platform.

  112. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by rroeder
    Hey, what are your weight's and pressure's your running. I've done a handfull of rides on the fork and started with 100psi, too soft and dived a lot, up'd it to 125 and have done a few rides. Feels pretty good but still a tad bit of dive and I used 95% of the travel on a regular trail ride yesterday.

    I'm 200, maybe more post holidays, I'm gonna try more air but should I check the oil volume, sounds like you guys are the same weight or heavier and are running less psi. I haven't really tried much of the platform adj, either on or off, can't stand the noise, should I try a click or 2 and just deal w/ the knocking?

    Thx for the help

    BTW, no info in the manual or online for spring setup based on weight, just the sag recomendation


    The recommended sag will only put you in the ballpark. You have to add or subtract air according to your own weight, riding style and location.

    Take your pump along on the trails and tune the fork as you ride.

    Remember, it's an AIR fork with coil assist, so get the air right first. Control the rate of return with the rebound, and the amount of brake / fork dive with the Absolute Platform.

    1: Air pressure.

    2: Rebound.

    3: APD.

    Don't forget to check your oil levels.

    R.
    It is inevitable ...

  113. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee
    I ended up ordering some Silkolene in 2.5 and 5wt. Should be here in time for a Moab trip this wknd.

    MC
    Where did you find the 2.5wt? I can only find 5wt and higher.
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

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  114. #114
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    Try your local MX shop. May be referred to as "tuning oil" for forks.


  115. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter
    Try your local MX shop. May be referred to as "tuning oil" for forks.
    Seems that it only comes in 2.5wt as Silkolene Pro-RSF at about twice the price, not that it matters to me. I'm in a fairly small town with not many shops. I have gone to a couple of them and the first thing they ask me is what motorcycle I ride. When I state that it is for a mountain bike, they state it will not work and send me to a bicycle shop.

    I just want to order online without the hassle of Neanderthal motor heads.
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  116. #116
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    I use the PJ1 Fork Tuner Ultra Light 2.5 wt from http://www.pjhbrands.com/.
    I pay $6.90/ pint.


  117. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by rroeder
    Hey, what are your weight's and pressure's your running. I've done a handfull of rides on the fork and started with 100psi, too soft and dived a lot, up'd it to 125 and have done a few rides. Feels pretty good but still a tad bit of dive and I used 95% of the travel on a regular trail ride yesterday.

    I'm 200, maybe more post holidays, I'm gonna try more air but should I check the oil volume, sounds like you guys are the same weight or heavier and are running less psi. I haven't really tried much of the platform adj, either on or off, can't stand the noise, should I try a click or 2 and just deal w/ the knocking?

    Thx for the help

    BTW, no info in the manual or online for spring setup based on weight, just the sag recomendation
    210LBS - running 150 PSI or slightly below , as the pump will let some air escape.

  118. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter
    I use the PJ1 Fork Tuner Ultra Light 2.5 wt from http://www.pjhbrands.com/.
    I pay $6.90/ pint.
    Thanks. I just ordered the Silkolene.

    Silkolene Fork Oil, Litre, 5WT $8.54
    Silkolene Pro-RSF Suspension Fluid, Litre, 2.5WT $15.74

    It will be here in a couple days. I tend to be a sucker for mikesee recommendations. Bought a WB M100 TA on his 29er fork review. He is building me wheels now, why not fork oil?

    I'm following this thread since I want a backup fork, for my Canzo to use when the WB needs service, and I'm a parts whore, like everyone else here.
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  119. #119
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    So I got in a good trail ride yesterday with some rocky ledgy type stuff that works the suspension, I think I finally have it dialed, up'd the air spring to 130 and ran 1 click of the platform, much better and the bike felt more balanced suspension wise. Also, there was hardly any knocking at the 1st setting, when I ran 2 clicks the knocking kicked in, used all the travel except about a 1/4".

  120. #120
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    Neanderthals?...LOL!

    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus
    Seems that it only comes in 2.5wt as Silkolene Pro-RSF at about twice the price, not that it matters to me. I'm in a fairly small town with not many shops. I have gone to a couple of them and the first thing they ask me is what motorcycle I ride. When I state that it is for a mountain bike, they state it will not work and send me to a bicycle shop.

    I just want to order online without the hassle of Neanderthal motor heads.
    slocaus, all 29'er advocates are Kool-Aid drinking egotists...oh wait...that was a very unfair wet blanket to throw on all 29'er advocates.

    Now I'm just joshing with you there, as you may have indeed spotted the elusive "motoneaderthalus" species in your town. They are almost as interesting as the occasionally observed "cycloingoramus" working at many bicycle shops across the globe.

    Having worked at a motorcycle shop for 15 years and currently working at a bike shop in my retired golden years, I'm still involved in both moto and bicycle interests. I find most moto guys are quite fascinated and...more often that not...acutally involved in enjoying the two-wheeled pedalmobile. The more serious amongst the motoheads often use the road and mountainbike as a fun diversion and/or a serious training tool. I've sold numerous bikes to the guys over at our biggest local motorcycle shop, and some of them have even gone to Moab with us. It's two wheels...offroad...good fun.

  121. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNC
    slocaus, all 29'er advocates are Kool-Aid drinking egotists...oh wait...that was a very unfair wet blanket to throw on all 29'er advocates.

    Now I'm just joshing with you there, as you may have indeed spotted the elusive "motoneaderthalus" species in your town. They are almost as interesting as the occasionally observed "cycloingoramus" working at many bicycle shops across the globe.

    Having worked at a motorcycle shop for 15 years and currently working at a bike shop in my retired golden years, I'm still involved in both moto and bicycle interests. I find most moto guys are quite fascinated and...more often that not...acutally involved in enjoying the two-wheeled pedalmobile. The more serious amongst the motoheads often use the road and mountainbike as a fun diversion and/or a serious training tool. I've sold numerous bikes to the guys over at our biggest local motorcycle shop, and some of them have even gone to Moab with us. It's two wheels...offroad...good fun.
    Yeah, agreed. Actually, I have been to every bike shop in town, and they are all (except one) far worse in terms of rectocranial inversion syndrome than the moto shops. I have not been to all the moto shops, but I know the attitude is better; they just honestly do not comprehend that MTB shocks have anything in common with Moto forks. If I had a Fox, that might have won some cred, huh?

    I have friends who ride both, and they certainly understand, just does not seem that those on the front lines in the moto shops have any MTB savy. So anyway, I ordered some Silkolene online and all is well. I will not berate the local moto crowd anymore. My comments above were only intended to describe the local shops, and not motor heads in general.
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  122. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter


    .
    By looking at the pics, the fork's internals are pretty simple and straightforward. It should be relatively easy to add a spacer on the air spring plunger to reduce the travel i.e from 120 to 100mm.

    Can anyone confirm this?
    Thanks
    flyMTBfish

  123. #123
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    Photo of Silenced Manitou Parts

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman
    Did you by any chance...take a pic of it?


    R.
    I finally got around to taking a picture of the rubber tipped brass platform plunger that came with my fork. While it was apart I put some shrink wrap on the platform plunger spring and the horrible knocking is no more.

    P1160006.JPG

  124. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torque Wrench
    I finally got around to taking a picture of the rubber tipped brass platform plunger that came with my fork. While it was apart I put some shrink wrap on the platform plunger spring and the horrible knocking is no more.

    P1160006.JPG
    Shrink wrap? Where?

    Noise is gone--check. Any downsides? Change in damping characteristics?

    Thanks for the info.

    MC

  125. #125
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    Caution;  Merge;  Workers Ahead! Replacements?????

    Ahhhhhhhhhh.....so the damn spring was making a noise as well as the tip/seat...interesting.

    I wonder if Manitou will offer replacement plunger assemblies for those with the original 'noisy' fork ??????

    It would be excellent PR....



    ----------> Are you reading this, Manitou?



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  126. #126
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    I had suspected as much about the spring & planned to do the same....thanks for saving me the R&D!


  127. #127
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    So how about all the other fork that suffer this, are they gona offer replacements for their noisy stuff? I've seen this trick done before for the exact reason - I'll have to double check the brand, but believe it was for ...........

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman
    Ahhhhhhhhhh.....so the damn spring was making a noise as well as the tip/seat...interesting.

    I wonder if Manitou will offer replacement plunger assemblies for those with the original 'noisy' fork ??????

    It would be excellent PR....



    ----------> Are you reading this, Manitou?



    R.
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    You're doing mtbr wrong, you're supposed to get increasingly offended by the implications that you're doing ANYTHING wrong.

  128. #128
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    Does anyone know if a TPC/TPC+/SPV/SPVE damper from a 32mm stanchion 26er Minute or Nixon will fit in the 29er? After more trying Im still not happy w/ the "TPC absolute" damper. Was wondering if there was a shim-stack compression damper that would fit.

  129. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee
    Shrink wrap? Where?

    Noise is gone--check. Any downsides? Change in damping characteristics?

    Thanks for the info.

    MC
    Mikesee,
    The shrink wrap is on the spring attached to the brass platform plunger. The spring is already covered with shrink wrap in the picture I posted. After a couple of rides I don't notice any change in performance. I should clarify that my fork made a harsh metallic sound when platform was not used. The shrinkwrap eliminated that sound, but there is still a subtle clunk when running a few clicks of platform (not enough to bother me).

  130. #130
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    Can anyone tell me how this fork compares to the Reba Race 29. Any info will be greatly appreciated. I would like sold comparisons, not fan boy comparison. In other words I think fox or Manitou is better cause it's cool.

  131. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by ejprez
    Can anyone tell me how this fork compares to the Reba Race 29. Any info will be greatly appreciated. I would like sold comparisons, not fan boy comparison. In other words I think fox or Manitou is better cause it's cool.
    ...... fan boy ! ?


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  132. #132
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    Sorry to sound like a jerk, I guess I should say I would like a straight up unbiased review.

  133. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by ejprez
    Sorry to sound like a jerk, I guess I should say I would like a straight up unbiased review.
    You have this one from Rainman on the Manitou; he did one on the Reba as well, before and after a coil upgrade. Search his posts or his blog.
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  134. #134
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    Oil Level - How to check?

    Hi, how do you check the oil level? What is the stock oil weight? Thank you

  135. #135
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    The stock oil weight is 5 weight.


    Read the review to see how you check the oil level...


    R.
    It is inevitable ...

  136. #136
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    I keep considering one of these but I wish they'd stuck with the black lowers...

  137. #137
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    So are these things no longer in production? The 120mm with the 20mm axle? Larry said he can't get them.
    My video techniques can be found in this thread.

  138. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by tscheezy
    So are these things no longer in production? The 120mm with the 20mm axle? Larry said he can't get them.

    jensonUSA is showing stock. so is bike29.

    i can't see why manipoo would stop making them, they are sold out everywhere....i'm really enjoying mine now after some hours of break-in.
    what would rainbow unicorn do?

  139. #139
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    CRC expectsto stock them again in late april according to this: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...?ModelID=21354

  140. #140
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    We the people ...

    Just thought I'd add that I've fitted a 120mm thru axle to my RIP9 and am very happy with it.

    Granted the adjustment is not in the same league as my Fox RLC Talas (26er) but I can achieve more than acceptable performance already - 130 psi (I'm 210lbs), 1st platform click and a quarter turn off full rebound.

    Mine was under filled also, which I still need to fix, and the rebound adjustment could be better too, however the stiffness is great and mine doesn't clunk, but be aware that there is a noticable break in period.

    Overall my experience matches RMs so far and I'm happy enough to have bought an 80mm thru axle for my Comandante' also.

    Hope this is of some use.

  141. #141
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    minute offset = 47.6 mm

    for some reason the offset is not listed in this long thread (or it's buried somewhere and i missed it), but straight from the manitou tech i was told that: a) the offset for the minute 29r is 47.6 mm b) they recommend 5 wt Motorex oil in the damper c) 105 mm distance from oil level to crown lip.

    that's quite a bit of offset. more than the F29 aftermarket (44 mm), but less than the 51 mm of the Fox F29 G2 version. I'm guessing that the new Reba will end up being in that 45 - 48 mm range as well. It would be nice if a psuedo-standard for offset emerged that frame designers could design around.

  142. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by frorider
    for some reason the offset is not listed in this long thread (or it's buried somewhere and i missed it), but straight from the manitou tech i was told that: a) the offset for the minute 29r is 47.6 mm b) they recommend 5 wt Motorex oil in the damper c) 105 mm distance from oil level to crown lip.

    that's quite a bit of offset. more than the F29 aftermarket (44 mm), but less than the 51 mm of the Fox F29 G2 version. I'm guessing that the new Reba will end up being in that 45 - 48 mm range as well. It would be nice if a psuedo-standard for offset emerged that frame designers could design around.
    Closest offset to that I know of is the On-One steel and carbon rigid forks that we all like so well. It also gives an alternative to adding one to an On-One if you want to keep the handling from the rigid to suspension fork.
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  143. #143
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    handlebar mount for damping adjuster?

    I just stood over one for the first time a couple days ago, and it
    felt like the 'all the way to the right' setting was virtually a
    lockout, or at least close enough for SS hill climbing.

    The stroke on this adjuster is so small that it seems like there
    should be a handlebar mount for it, giving us a virtual lockout
    lever. However, i can't find any references to such a thing. Am i
    missing something?
    0x1D

  144. #144
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    There is supposed to be a remote lockout lever available, but i've never seen one.

    I suspect that Manitou have their hands full just trying to keep up with the demand for this fork, and the remote L/O is on the back burner for a while because of this.

    "All the way to the right" is a lockout, and is perfect for standing and mashing up hills.

    This is a very good fork, and it deserves to do well.

    The black ones are difficult to get right now. I've been trying.




    R.
    It is inevitable ...

  145. #145
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    Thanks for the review and continued discussion Rainman (and everybody else). Reading through this thread has been really helpful. I've had this fork sitting in my living room all winter, but hopefully I'll actually have a bike to put it on this weekend.

    I have a 100mm version, which I'm perfectly content with at the moment. I don't know that I'll ever feel a real need for 120mm, BUT if the mood strikes me can I switch it up to 120? I'm building a RIP 9 as well, so part of me thinks the bigger travel in front might compliment the rear.

    I know the current internals won't allow me to up the travel, but what if I get new 120mm internals? Are the stantions and lowers the same on all three travel models of the fork?
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  146. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky 7
    Thanks for the review and continued discussion Rainman (and everybody else). Reading through this thread has been really helpful. I've had this fork sitting in my living room all winter, but hopefully I'll actually have a bike to put it on this weekend.

    I have a 100mm version, which I'm perfectly content with at the moment. I don't know that I'll ever feel a real need for 120mm, BUT if the mood strikes me can I switch it up to 120? I'm building a RIP 9 as well, so part of me thinks the bigger travel in front might compliment the rear.

    I know the current internals won't allow me to up the travel, but what if I get new 120mm internals? Are the stantions and lowers the same on all three travel models of the fork?

    I don't know for sure, but I doubt that you can "switch up" as Manitou makes three different versions of this fork, which seems to indicate to me that the measurements are quite different between all three.

    However, as I said, I don't know this for sure.

    The 120 on the RIP 9 is really good...

    You should save yourself the hassles, and swap the 100 for a 120 now, while it is still new ...imo... because you will want to after you ride the RIP.



    R.
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  147. #147
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    We the people ...

    I just fitted an 80mm through axle to my ss. Will be interesting to compare the damping etc, although I can already say that the 80 is underfilled like the 120 was.

  148. #148
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    Hmmm...alright, thanks for the info. Maybe I'll call Manitou and see what they have to say about it.

    If possible, I'd rather keep my current fork. I used some backdoor channels to scoop up one of the last black ones. I'm not too keen on the white version and after the effort to get it, I'd hate to sell the black one.

    I'll give those guys a call and let you know what they say.
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  149. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torque Wrench
    I'm 185 with gear and I'm currently running the fork at 110 psi. I like the way the fork performs, but the knocking sound really bothers me. I use about 85% travel on rough fast downhills with some rock steps, but no drops. Mine makes noise even with no platform.
    So does mine... It definitely bothers me enough that, although I like the performance of the fork, I have to admit I'm considering replacing it with something else simply to put an end to the getto racket coming from the front of my bike. A $600 fork should not emit such a clatter!!!

    It amazes me that Answer/Manitou had eliminated all of the noise issues that had plagued their forks, and now they reappear under the HB suspension ownership. I had high hopes for this fork, and from a performance standpoint, it mostly delivers, but unless it can do it in a silent manner (like a Reba), it's coming off.
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  150. #150
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    in an email conversation w/ manitou tech, they confirmed that the minute 29r is NOT easily converted to different travels. requires new steerer/stanchion tubes. expensive.

    on the plus side, unlike fox and RS, this means that each length has had the maximum amt of weight squeezed out of it.

  151. #151
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    Good point about the weight. Thanks for the info, sounds like it's not a simple conversion. No problem, I'm sure 100 will be just fine by me. If anybody ever comes out with an adjustable travel 29er fork, maybe I'll upgrade.
    All the Dude ever wanted was his rug back.

  152. #152
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    speaking of weight, i just weighed my 100 mm minute 29er with 20 mm thru axle included, and the steerer tube uncut, at 1850 g (4.08 lbs) on an accurate scale.

    the thru axle itself is aesthetically a step up from previous manitou forks. and i like the hollow crown -- big cross-section, looks to be quite stiff (unlike the fox 29 crown). i think this fork is going to be perfect for my all-mountain 29 steel hardtail (flow rims, biggish tires, stiff fork/front wheel for rocky trails).

    with a pike and totem on two of my other bikes, i have gotten spoiled w/ the convenience of maxxle. however the hex thru axle of the manitou is lighter, so the tradeoff is worth it for me for this bike.

  153. #153
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    A quick update on my Minute 29...

    The clicking damper is quite loud. I pulled it all apart and put a piece of heat shrink on the small spring, which did nothing to quiet the noise. Examining the assembly, I can see why it didn't do anything, that spring really can't rattle in that space anyway, nor is it being compressed enough to cause it to bow out significantly.

    However, if your clicking noise was muffled by the heat shrink tubing install, I propose that rather than stopping the cause of the click, you have instead created a tighter fit for the spring inside the tube, causing it to rub during compression which is in turn slowing down the action of the clicking valve. Probably not the result you were hoping for.

    The noise really is the only thing I don't like about the fork. I didn't bother with draining all the 5wt and replacing with 3wt, since a lighter oil is really only going to make a noticable difference with initial stroke suppleness, not as much as you would hope with higher speed compression or rebound... The fork felt a bit heavily damped at first but it feels quite good after breaking in.

    Lovingly,

    JMH

  154. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMH
    A quick update on my Minute 29...

    The clicking damper is quite loud. I pulled it all apart and put a piece of heat shrink on the small spring, which did nothing to quiet the noise. Examining the assembly, I can see why it didn't do anything, that spring really can't rattle in that space anyway, nor is it being compressed enough to cause it to bow out significantly.

    However, if your clicking noise was muffled by the heat shrink tubing install, I propose that rather than stopping the cause of the click, you have instead created a tighter fit for the spring inside the tube, causing it to rub during compression which is in turn slowing down the action of the clicking valve. Probably not the result you were hoping for.

    The noise really is the only thing I don't like about the fork. I didn't bother with draining all the 5wt and replacing with 3wt, since a lighter oil is really only going to make a noticable difference with initial stroke suppleness, not as much as you would hope with higher speed compression or rebound... The fork felt a bit heavily damped at first but it feels quite good after breaking in.

    Lovingly,

    JMH

    The problem isn't in the spring itself, as you have found, and as Manitou has said.

    They don't recommend covering the spring with heat shrink.

    The sound comes directly from the valve head striking the valve seat.

    When in operation, that valve is moving up and down quite fast, and every time it hits the seat hard, it makes a *click* noise.

    The valve head and valve seat need to be re-manufactured from a different material...or the design changed completely to eliminate the noise.

    I wouldn't be too hard to have a sliding piston design which uncovers / covers side ports in the tube which a piston moves in, something like the old two-stroke engine...without a valve striking anything ... so no noise when it is actuated.

    I'm sure that Manitou can come up with something better than covering the head of the valve with a plastic coating...



    R.
    It is inevitable ...

  155. #155
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    heard through the grapevine that there's a fix to the clicking piston noise .
    the vine is not giving the info out on how to fix it
    manitou recommends it be sent back to a trained tech center like hawley or quality for the work.
    hopefully someone will send thiers in and post up a fix.
    i aint got the time to sit around and wait on stuff, gotta ride.

  156. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman
    I'm sure that Manitou can come up with something better than covering the head of the valve with a plastic coating...
    Worst thing is, they didn't even cover the part that makes contact! Crazy I tell you.

    I just received mine back from warranty (I had a preproduction sample and they required me to swap it for a production version) & there is no difference in the clicking issue. I have also had it apart and everything looks the same, save the anodized bits. SO.....if there is a "fix", they are not doing it themselves.


  157. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by jncarpenter
    Worst thing is, they didn't even cover the part that makes contact! Crazy I tell you.

    I just received mine back from warranty (I had a preproduction sample and they required me to swap it for a production version) & there is no difference in the clicking issue. I have also had it apart and everything looks the same, save the anodized bits. SO.....if there is a "fix", they are not doing it themselves.

    That's very strange....


    Whilst the noise makes no difference to the efficient operation of this fork, it detracts from the overall ride experience, in that the rider is accompanied by the *click* whenever the APD is engaged.

    It seems strange to me that Manitou, having built a nice fork like this one is in a very competitive market, wouldn't want to do everything they can to further their sales of the fork by eliminating the one single "flaw" that the fork has to make it "perfect".


    Hopefully, they will ....



    R.
    It is inevitable ...

  158. #158
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    i notice the click, but only when going very slow.....even my rear hub is louder than the click.

    i'm sure some folk are more sensitive to the noise than others, doesn't bother me a bit.
    what would rainbow unicorn do?

  159. #159
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    Manitou clicker 29er

    Except for the clickin it's *****in. Anybody know if the light oil helps for real?
    wooohooo

  160. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by pokane
    Except for the clickin it's *****in. Anybody know if the light oil helps for real?
    I tried 3 or 4 different weights of oil in the test fork, and then went back to the standard 5 weight for the actual comparison test/review.

    I think that for me, the 5 weight worked the best, but JNC preferred the lighter oil in his fork.

    Changing the oil is easy, so maybe you can see which one you prefer.



    R.
    It is inevitable ...

  161. #161
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    thanks, I really enjoy your unbiased analysis. I got the fork about a week ago, though axel 120mm. loving it so far except for the click. But I'll take over the reba. It's on a ventana el rey and has turned the bike into a true 29er trail bike.
    wooohooo

  162. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thylacine
    I'm trying to figure out what the Rasta decals on mine are for.

    Do I have to roll up a fat one to be able to ride this fork, mon?
    Jah, mon, feeleen I-ree, mon. Givin mon-ee to-da bobsled teem, mon.

  163. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torque Wrench
    Mikesee,
    The shrink wrap is on the spring attached to the brass platform plunger. The spring is already covered with shrink wrap in the picture I posted. After a couple of rides I don't notice any change in performance. I should clarify that my fork made a harsh metallic sound when platform was not used. The shrinkwrap eliminated that sound, but there is still a subtle clunk when running a few clicks of platform (not enough to bother me).
    How's the shrink wrap performing? Is there a word from Manitou about it?
    My fork is CLICKING like hell and I am annoyed by all sounds coming from my bike - except for rear hub buzz.

  164. #164
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    Rainman,

    (EDIT: Sorry for the big pics)

    Could you help me figure out why my dampening is no longer working? I'm sure it's very simple. I set out to check the oil level and ended up confused with the dampening no longer working. Yes it's my first time opening up a fork.

    Here's what I did:

    1. Removed adjusting cap and did not lose the ball bearings and springs (thanks for the tip/warning).


    2. Unscrewed the fork cap and pulled out the top assembly to look for oil


    3. The inner sleeve popped up with the top assembly so I pushed it back down.


    That's it. Upon re-assembly the dampening does not work. The oil is outside this innver sleeve and 9" below the top of the fork. I thought it was supposed to be about 100mm. Is the oil supposed to be inside this inner sleeve? If so, I guess it drained out when I pulled the top cap off and the sleeve came with it. If that's it, I can drain and put it back where it belongs. Thanks for any input.

    Jeff

  165. #165
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    Jeff...

    Can you show me a pic of the part which you removed? It looks like your top piston assembly has come completely apart...



    R.
    It is inevitable ...

  166. #166
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    Agreed...looks like that's what happened RM. After receiving mine back from service, I immediately went about swapping out their stock oil for the lighter. Upon unscrewing the top cap, I realized that the same had happened. Apparently they do not secure the piston head on tight enough to overcome the initial bushing friction against the stanchion wall.

    You'll have to fish it out & resecure it. It also looks like the foam rings are missing from your fork....did you buy this new or used?


  167. #167
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    Hmmm. My fork is actually a 26er (from my new Ibis Mojo) and I assumed that the design was basically the same, but it looks like they are a bit different. These are the only other pictures I took last night. My top piston assembly slides down inside the inner tube in the picture and does not contact the stanchion wall. When I pulled out the top piston assembly, this inner tube pulled up with it and I just pushed it back down. I'm guessing that my oil needs to be inside this tube.



    The only parts removed:


  168. #168
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    Yeah....definitely different. Strange.


  169. #169
    JMH
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    I am going to need to see bigger photos before I can offer my opinion.

  170. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMH
    I am going to need to see bigger photos before I can offer my opinion.
    With my new 10MP camera, I'm sure I can find something for you that will work.

  171. #171
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    My Mojo crowd confirmed that I need to put the oil back into the inner tube. I guess what I missed is that I should have let all the air out of the left leg before pulling the top off the right leg. That inner tube should not have pulled out.

  172. #172
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    Rode for the first time on the Minute 29er (120mm T/A) last weekend. First impressions are MUCH more favorable that expected after reading through all of this thread. The fork feels very linear and VERY plush already, I was very surprised! My platform settings all behave differently from one click to the next.

    Yes, it clicks and yes, it's irritating. Who knows what the fix is and how to perform it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_Beer
    A bike company should come out with a bike named after Mikey. the Santa Cruz Vandeman. That would pisss him off to no end.

  173. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by jschwart73
    Rode for the first time on the Minute 29er (120mm T/A) last weekend. First impressions are MUCH more favorable that expected after reading through all of this thread. The fork feels very linear and VERY plush already, I was very surprised! My platform settings all behave differently from one click to the next.

    Yes, it clicks and yes, it's irritating. Who knows what the fix is and how to perform it?
    There is no fix for the clicking .... yet.

    The Manitou is linear and plush, especially for an air fork. If they could get rid of the * click * then it would be 'perfect'.


    R.
    It is inevitable ...

  174. #174
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    120 TA Minute 29er fork play

    I have about 1/4 inch of verical play when the fork is completly open, is this normal?

    thanks
    wooohooo

  175. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman
    There is no fix for the clicking .... yet.

    The Manitou is linear and plush, especially for an air fork. If they could get rid of the * click * then it would be 'perfect'.


    R.
    That's what I suspected. I'll get over it, because the fork works really well.

    At least until the new Reba comes out, tee hee!
    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_Beer
    A bike company should come out with a bike named after Mikey. the Santa Cruz Vandeman. That would pisss him off to no end.

  176. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by pokane
    I have about 1/4 inch of verical play when the fork is completly open, is this normal?

    thanks

    Check your fork oil level, it sounds like it's low.



    R.
    It is inevitable ...

  177. #177
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    OK, I know you are not a tech, you seem to know more than any tech's I've talked to. Is adding oil a big deal? I"m seeing guys taking the platform caps off and now the forks are not working. Isit as simple as taking the cap off and adding?
    wooohooo

  178. #178
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    Response from Manitou Tech re: clicking:
    ______________________________________

    Jeff

    There is no fix yet. It is something we are working on as we speak
    though. Keep checking back though for the fix.

    Shanan Barth | Warranty & Technical Support

    Ph: 888.686.3472 | Fax: 414.462.0214
    6750 W Florist Ave, Milwaukee, WI 53218

    Hayes Bicycle Group | www.hayesbicycle.com
    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_Beer
    A bike company should come out with a bike named after Mikey. the Santa Cruz Vandeman. That would pisss him off to no end.

  179. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by pokane
    OK, I know you are not a tech, you seem to know more than any tech's I've talked to. Is adding oil a big deal? I"m seeing guys taking the platform caps off and now the forks are not working. Isit as simple as taking the cap off and adding?

    Yes. Read the review. The method is in there...



    R.
    It is inevitable ...

  180. #180
    JMH
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    I got all Monster Garage on my fork this weekend and lowered it from 100mm to 90mm. Perfect height for me now.

    It is true there is no "easy" way to shorten the travel. I chose to trim 10mm off the shaft between the coil and the lowers. This mod is obviously permanent unless I decide to order a new 100mm shaft.

    Fork is a hair more linear in the end stroke (since the spring isn't compressing that last 10mm) but it works a charm. Still clicking. But I ignore it better now.

    JMH

  181. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMH
    I got all Monster Garage on my fork this weekend and lowered it from 100mm to 90mm. Perfect height for me now.

    It is true there is no "easy" way to shorten the travel. I chose to trim 10mm off the shaft between the coil and the lowers. This mod is obviously permanent unless I decide to order a new 100mm shaft.

    Fork is a hair more linear in the end stroke (since the spring isn't compressing that last 10mm) but it works a charm. Still clicking. But I ignore it better now.

    JMH
    I have been considering a different approach (seen below in pic). It would cause the fork to have a smaller initial air "canister"...however I would consider that to be a good thing with less travel. We'll see how it goes.
    Attached Images Attached Images


  182. #182
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    Boy what a great review! Im looking forward to reading more of your threads. I just have to figure out, how to find them. Im not into 29's, but I had to read it for the knowledge.

    I have a new '06 Manitou Minute 3 that bought from Greenfish. It seems to very similar to the new Minutes. Mine is 130mm travel with a no tools volume adjuster on type of the right leg, which so far I have left in the open position.

    Do you have any experience or setup advice for this fork? I weight 155 pounds and it is on a Mountain Cycle San Andreas which is for heavy XC and light AM.

  183. #183
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    offset info 41 vs 48 mm

    for some reason there's been a lot of confusion among riders and retailers about the Manitou minute 29er fork offset / 'rake'.

    so i wanted to post directly from a manitou tech email:

    -----------------
    All aftermarket forks have 48mm offset. OEM forks have 41 or 48; you need to check with the bike manufacturer to determine which one they use for a particular bicycle.

    Brian Thompson | Technical Support Coordinator
    Skype: hayesbicycletech
    Phone: 1.888.686.3472 | Fax: 1.414.462.0214
    6750 W Florist Ave, Milwaukee WI 53218, USA
    -------------------

  184. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by frorider
    for some reason there's been a lot of confusion among riders and retailers about the Manitou minute 29er fork offset / 'rake'.

    so i wanted to post directly from a manitou tech email:

    -----------------
    All aftermarket forks have 48mm offset. OEM forks have 41 or 48; you need to check with the bike manufacturer to determine which one they use for a particular bicycle.

    Brian Thompson | Technical Support Coordinator
    Skype: hayesbicycletech
    Phone: 1.888.686.3472 | Fax: 1.414.462.0214
    6750 W Florist Ave, Milwaukee WI 53218, USA
    -------------------
    So what if the bike manufacturer uses a 41mm offset and you want to change to an aftermarket fork? Are you screwed?

  185. #185
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    To Rainman and other users of the Manitou...

    Do you get the impression that the Minute 120 can take some abuse? For a bigger rider on a hardtail, is this the kind of fork that could take some big hits? How about compared to the F29 120? Any thoughts on how well the Reba 120 will hold up?

    I haven't owned a suspension fork in a few years and just don't know how reliable these things are for riders who are a little rough.

    Thanks!

  186. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattbryant2
    To Rainman and other users of the Manitou...

    Do you get the impression that the Minute 120 can take some abuse? For a bigger rider on a hardtail, is this the kind of fork that could take some big hits? How about compared to the F29 120? Any thoughts on how well the Reba 120 will hold up?

    I haven't owned a suspension fork in a few years and just don't know how reliable these things are for riders who are a little rough.

    Thanks!


    I gave the test fork I had quite a hard time, but it was only for a relatively short period...so I can't comment on the long term reliability of the Manitou 120.

    The Converted-to-coil Reba I have is still going strongly, as is the White Bros F135 which is on my RIP 9.

    The Reba 120 is a completely unknown quantity to me, as I havn't tested it.

    As far as taking a pounding from a heavy rider over a long period goes on the Manitou 120, start a new thread and see if you can get some feedback from bigger riders on that fork.

    I know that Manitou sold quite a few of them, and there are sure to be at least some big guys using the fork.

    While I was testing it, I had no major problems, just little things like the *click* from the valve and some initial stiction because of new seals. I'm pretty sure that it could take quite a lot of abuse though, as it was strongly built.


    HTH,





    Rainman.
    It is inevitable ...

  187. #187

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    I'm 235 lbs, and ride hard enough to put the hurt on equipment. So far my fork is ok, but i've only been on 6 or so rides. If you can hold out for a few months I'll come back and update the durability.

  188. #188
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    I've had the 120 TA for a few months now. On a large ventana el rey, I"m 6-2, 215 and would say a pretty aggresive rider, steeps, drops, small <4 foot airs. The fork is reliable so far. I came off a 26/6inch travel bike and I'm handling everything and then some.
    wooohooo

  189. #189
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    New question here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman
    Undid the top damper adjuster again, [didn't drop my balls this time ]... removed the top cap from the fork leg. I removed the Absolute Damper mechanism with it's three soft foam rings from the fork.... and simply upended the bike and poured all the stock 5 weight oil into a drain tray.

    Pumped the fork a few times to clear the bottom rebound damper section of oil, wiped the inside of the stanchion with a clean lint-free rag on a length of dowel, then....placed the bike upright again and poured in some clean 2.5 weight fork oil.

    Stopped when it was 100mm from the top of the fork, pumped the fork to get it to settle...topped it up again.

    Replaced the damper mechanism, the cap and adjuster, complete with springs and balls.
    I removed the top cap from the right side fork leg to check my oil level. Had a little too much (wasn't quite getting full travel). Remove some oil until I had 100mm from the top. Now I can't get the top cap (compression stack assembly?) back in!

    It'll go down but stop short about 1.5" from the top of the fork leg. Is it air getting compressed that won't allow it to go any further? Getting very frustrated as I was planning an early morning riding tomorrow! Any advice from the Guru's?

  190. #190
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    Do you have the platform damper off? If so, then it is air. Work the oil through the damper by gently pumping the fork. Be careful that the oil doesn't spew out of the top of the fork leg.

    Grease the top O ring with M-Prep or some fork oil and work the damper down into the leg with gentle screwing motions.

    You should be able to get it back in there if you take your time.


    R.



    Quote Originally Posted by cycljunkie
    I removed the top cap from the right side fork leg to check my oil level. Had a little too much (wasn't quite getting full travel). Remove some oil until I had 100mm from the top. Now I can't get the top cap (compression stack assembly?) back in!

    It'll go down but stop short about 1.5" from the top of the fork leg. Is it air getting compressed that won't allow it to go any further? Getting very frustrated as I was planning an early morning riding tomorrow! Any advice from the Guru's?
    It is inevitable ...

  191. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman
    Do you have the platform damper off? If so, then it is air. Work the oil through the damper by gently pumping the fork. Be careful that the oil doesn't spew out of the top of the fork leg.

    Grease the top O ring with M-Prep or some fork oil and work the damper down into the leg with gentle screwing motions.

    You should be able to get it back in there if you take your time.


    R.
    Damper was off when I removed it. I poured all the oil out to make sure there wasn't something mechanical holding it up. Without oil it went on fine. Took it back out, poured in my oil, same thing. Even working it slowly to try to get the oil to cycle through the damper it stops dead about 1.5" from the top of the fork leg. Even tried pouring in half of the oil, inserting the damper, pouring in a little more oil, cycling it down, etc. Couldn't get all the oil in. 1am now and I was set for a 5am ride. NOT!

  192. #192
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    Are you sure you have cycled the fork after pouring half the oil into the leg to get it right down to the bottom of the leg?

    If so, try this: Empty all the oil out. Get the correct amount in a pouring jug and pour half of the amount into the leg. Work the fork up and down gently to distribute the oil in the fork. Now, place the damper stack back into the fork and tighten the top cap down by hand. Cycle the fork to get the oil to drop to the bottom of the leg. Remove damper stack and pour more in, repeat.

    Make sure the fork is not compressed at all and slowly add the last of the oil until it is 100mm from the top of the leg.

    Now slowly work the damper stack into the fork, and try to get the stack right in far enough to start the thread in the cap.

    If this doesn't work ............ you got me stumped.




    R.




    Quote Originally Posted by cycljunkie
    Damper was off when I removed it. I poured all the oil out to make sure there wasn't something mechanical holding it up. Without oil it went on fine. Took it back out, poured in my oil, same thing. Even working it slowly to try to get the oil to cycle through the damper it stops dead about 1.5" from the top of the fork leg. Even tried pouring in half of the oil, inserting the damper, pouring in a little more oil, cycling it down, etc. Couldn't get all the oil in. 1am now and I was set for a 5am ride. NOT!
    It is inevitable ...

  193. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman
    Are you sure you have cycled the fork after pouring half the oil into the leg to get it right down to the bottom of the leg?

    If so, try this: Empty all the oil out. Get the correct amount in a pouring jug and pour half of the amount into the leg. Work the fork up and down gently to distribute the oil in the fork. Now, place the damper stack back into the fork and tighten the top cap down by hand. Cycle the fork to get the oil to drop to the bottom of the leg. Remove damper stack and pour more in, repeat.

    Make sure the fork is not compressed at all and slowly add the last of the oil until it is 100mm from the top of the leg.

    Now slowly work the damper stack into the fork, and try to get the stack right in far enough to start the thread in the cap.

    If this doesn't work ............ you got me stumped.




    R.
    Well... I was able to get the damper stack back into the fork leg by pouring half the oil into the leg, inserting the damper stack half way then pouring the rest of the oil in. I figured I could cycle the fork and distribute the oil accordingly. Now the absolute damper doesn't work at all. No matter which position, it feels like the damper is completely off. I'm going to have to set it aside and give it a go later. Need some sleep... The other thing that puzzles me is that even after checking that the oil was 100mm from the top of the fork leg I still only get 110mm of travel.

  194. #194
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    Leave it until the morning...



    I'm too tired to think straight...



    R.


    Quote Originally Posted by cycljunkie
    Well... I was able to get the damper stack back into the fork leg by pouring half the oil into the leg, inserting the damper stack half way then pouring the rest of the oil in. I figured I could cycle the fork and distribute the oil accordingly. Now the absolute damper doesn't work at all. No matter which position, it feels like the damper is completely off. I'm going to have to set it aside and give it a go later. Need some sleep... The other thing that puzzles me is that even after checking that the oil was 100mm from the top of the fork leg I still only get 110mm of travel.
    It is inevitable ...

  195. #195
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    What kind of lubes&greases and tools do you use for annually or every second year Manitou 120mm TA overhaul?

  196. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by cycljunkie
    Now I can't get the top cap back in!
    The compression piston isn't opening. Either you've left some amt of platform on, the piston itself is stuck, or you're just not pushing hard enough. When the bottom of the damper hits the oil at about 2" to go you have to get the oil to flow past the compression piston to insert it any further. To do so takes a good amt of force even in 'open'. When locked out its nigh impossible.

    Can you guys who list your oil 'weight' actually list the brand and/or viscosity #s. W/o knowing more info '2.5wt' doesn't convey any real information. I've replaced mine w/ Redline Medium ([email protected]) and it could still stand more damping (and/or a more progressive 'spring' curve.) On simple XC rides and 2 clicks of platform, I'll still bottom out the fork but its MUCH better than it used to be though. The fork will no longer instantly bottom when taking a slow climb over a log. Its darn near flipped me over the bars several times w/ the factory oil. FWIW, Im 185#. FWIW2, the factory oil appears VERY thin (I saved it in a jar). I've been searching ebay for a cheap viscosity tube to measure it.

    I thinking of machining a light plastic rod to insert in to the left leg to take up some air volume. Will provide a higher air spring rate.

  197. #197
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    It happened to me as well. You have to play a bit with the compression knob and it will slide right in - do not push it down with power it should be easy. Just take a nap and do it in the morning, it's 1 minute job.

  198. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by pecka
    It happened to me as well. You have to play a bit with the compression knob and it will slide right in - do not push it down with power it should be easy. Just take a nap and do it in the morning, it's 1 minute job.
    I've tried both the gentle and brute force method and neither worked for me. I ended up pouring out half of the oil and inserting the compression damper about half way. Then I slowly poured the rest of the oil is and gently cycled the fork to they and work that oil down past the compression damper.

    I finally got the compression damper in far enough to thread it down but now that the fork is all together my absolute damper does nothing. Meaning no matter which position I'm in there is no compression damping. I swapped out the oil for 5wt RockShox fork oil. When I poured the new oil in I measured 100mm from the oil level to the top of the crown. Then I poured out half of it into a ratio-rite. Then I inserted the compression damper half way and slowly poured in the remaining oil...

    I also removed those 3 foam rings because: a) it helped me pour in the remaining oil & b) I saw that jncarpenter did it to his and figured it wouldn't be an issue.

    Did I not cycle the fork enough to distribute the oil prior to inserting the compression damper? When I tried the brute force method it would stop dead at about 1.5" from the crown. I mean DEAD stop, like there was something in the way. If I poured all the oil out the compression damper would go right in. Too much oil maybe?

    I've serviced a few forks in my time but this one has me stumped. I'm about ready to throw my WB Fluid 110 back on and send the fork back to Manitou. It'll probably take forever to get it serviced since I can't even get someone on the phone.

  199. #199
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    Just got off the phone with Manitou and they were very helpful. I think my issue is that there is a little spring inside the compression damper rod that pushes a little poppet valved down. Manitou said that sometimes the spring is a little too stiff and when you try to reinsert the compression damper the valve is stuck and you can't get the damper in all the way. They suggested that I use a small allen wrench to try and open the poppet valve to allow oil to pass through. I'm hoping this will do the trick. Gonna try it later tonight as work is calling me...

  200. #200
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    Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by pecka
    It happened to me as well. You have to play a bit with the compression knob and it will slide right in - do not push it down with power it should be easy. Just take a nap and do it in the morning, it's 1 minute job.
    Got my fork back together! Turns out the spring holding down my poppet valve is pretty tight. Tight enough that the valve wouldn't open and allow the damper assembly to go down into the fork leg far enough.

    A Tech at Manitou turned me on to a little trick. Take one strand of wire from a derailleur cable and wrap it like a hook under the round shim at the very bottom of the damper assembly. This props the shim open (exposing the holes) which allows the damper assembly to go all the way down into the fork leg. The wire should be long enough so you can grab it when the damper is all the way in. Once you feel the damper assembly begin to thread you just pull out the wire. Took a couple of tries but got it in finally. Fork feels great and I going for a much needed ride in about an hour.

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