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  1. #1
    TR
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    Is 11 months too long?

    To wait for an agreed warranty repair?
    How about is 2 months after the advised delivery date too long to be waiting on that delivery (with no explanation and no response to correspondence)?
    Is it too much to expect responses to emails?
    Is it wrong to be angry when you read about others receiving their new bikes when you know that your broken frame has been with the builder for longer than that person has had to wait for their new bike?

    Sorry.
    Needed to vent.

  2. #2
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    Sounds like a real PITA, hope the bike was/is worth all of the hassle.

  3. #3
    Carbon & Ti rule
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    Yea it is, Colin+M would have brought,ridden & sold 4 bikes in that time ( I would have done 2 )
    I have a 6 Berth & 2 Berth Motorhomes that I rent out . They are based in Tauranga, New Zealand

  4. #4
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    That's a real bummer to hear, especially when the builders CS used to be excellent.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by muzzanic View Post
    Yea it is, Colin+M would have brought,ridden & sold 4 bikes in that time ( I would have done 2 )
    Ha! True story.

  6. #6
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    I didn't even need to read the question to give you the answer Yes it's way too long.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    To wait for an agreed warranty repair?
    How about is 2 months after the advised delivery date too long to be waiting on that delivery (with no explanation and no response to correspondence)?
    Is it too much to expect responses to emails?
    Is it wrong to be angry when you read about others receiving their new bikes when you know that your broken frame has been with the builder for longer than that person has had to wait for their new bike?

    Sorry.
    Needed to vent.

    11 months??

    Search Matt Chester on this forum and consider yourself lucky ;-)

    ps.

    Yes WAY too long

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeZee View Post
    11 months??

    Search Matt Chester on this forum and consider yourself lucky ;-)

    ps.

    Yes WAY too long
    Yeah, I am aware of Matt, but this is a builder who continues to build and people continue to post about their positive experiences and the quicker than expected turnarounds on their bikes and accessories.
    I was very excited to get an email from him saying that he was almost finished and asking what tyre sizes I would likely to be using as he wanted to get clearance right.
    When I responded he replied that he would have it ready to ship on 1 November.
    Since then I have emailed him at least twice to get updates but have heard nothing.
    As I said elsewhere, if this ever breaks again it will be hung up on the wall as I never want to have to deal with him again.
    I am aware too that I am not the only broken frame that is having trouble as a friend of mine also has a broken frame that he has been waiting closer to 18 months to get back and never has any correspondence with the builder unless he phones him from Australia. I know of 5 broken frames from this builder in Australia.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjsb View Post
    Sounds like a real PITA, hope the bike was/is worth all of the hassle.
    Not a lot of stuff justify a 11 month wait and a warranty repair definitely doesn't.
    Last edited by Max24; 03-07-2015 at 07:58 AM.

  10. #10
    TR
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max24 View Post
    Not a lot of stuff justify a 11 month wait and a warranty repair definitely doesn't.
    Agreed.
    If I was told 11 months for a complete bike build I would say, "thanks but I will look elsewhere".
    Replacement of a rear triangle which he has agreed he built wrong should not take this long.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max24 View Post
    Not a lot of stuff justify a 11 month wait and a warranty repair definitely doesn't.
    Yeah, totally agree. Just trying to ease the OP's pain. It doesn't take this long to build a house. What attracts customers to builders who are so far behind schedule AND apparently have issues with product holding up? I am not being critical in my question or tone, I am curious as to what is the allure? Are the bikes that good? I have read where a builder like Jeff Jones would/does have incredibly long waiting list, but aren't his bikes like the most amazing things and they never break? I could see waiting for that.

  12. #12
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    I would be pissed, and ask him for a frame or just give me my money back for the frame.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    Yeah, I am aware of Matt, but this is a builder who continues to build and people continue to post about their positive experiences and the quicker than expected turnarounds on their bikes and accessories.
    I was very excited to get an email from him saying that he was almost finished and asking what tyre sizes I would likely to be using as he wanted to get clearance right.
    When I responded he replied that he would have it ready to ship on 1 November.
    Since then I have emailed him at least twice to get updates but have heard nothing.
    As I said elsewhere, if this ever breaks again it will be hung up on the wall as I never want to have to deal with him again.
    I am aware too that I am not the only broken frame that is having trouble as a friend of mine also has a broken frame that he has been waiting closer to 18 months to get back and never has any correspondence with the builder unless he phones him from Australia. I know of 5 broken frames from this builder in Australia.
    Your story and many others have kept me from buying a custom frame. I always thought it would be cool but in the long run I never "needed it". I would rather be riding a production from for months than wait months to have one built or repaired.

    Hope everything works out for you......

    Any BTW a frame from your builder was my dream bike........very sexy!

  14. #14
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    So who's the builder?

  15. #15
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    I'be been curious as to whether you ever got your bike back yet. What a poor showing. I'd love to own a blacksheep but threads like this would stop me fold from attempting to order one. Good luck to you. I wonder if James knew this was on a bike forum if he would feel compelled to respond to you (not us)

  16. #16
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    I really need to call him but obviously that is not quite so easy when you are in Australia and he is in the US.

  17. #17
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    I have now called but it was not answered.
    Left a message for him on his msg bank.
    No response so far.
    Not sure what I can do now short of flying to Fort Collins to confront him and wait for him to finish my frame while I am in attendance.

    Frustrating.

  18. #18
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    Nevermind - I see that builder is not in Colorado anymore..

  19. #19
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    The builder was named by others above my last posts.

  20. #20
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    That really sucks. I am sorry to hear this happen to anybody. This is part of the reason that I pay no attention to a bike's warranty when I buy it. It is just a sales pitch.
    Unfortunately all you can do is keep it civil because he has your money and your bike and your recourse is very limited to his "good name".

  21. #21
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    A customer of mine was having similar "connectivity" issues, and finally reached out to these guys.

    They have a relationship with the builder in question, and are not too far away from his shop.

    They took care of my customer with his repair that he needed done, in a timely fashion.

    Also told him they could walk down the street and chat with said builder if that was needed.

    My dollars? At this stage, even if it costs you to have them fix it, they are uniquely positioned to be able to extract your frame, take care of the problem, and get it back under you, which is likely, all you really care about at this point.

    Do note, this is my interpretation of conversations I was not in on, so don't assume based on it, chat with them, tell them what you'd like done if anything, I'm guessing you won't be the first story of the kind that they've heard, so it's likely they can help some way or another.

    contact ‚ÄĒ Moonmen
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  22. #22
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    In my dealings with "The Builder" it was Todd I always had communication from.

    My bike is still missing, 16 months since it was stolen and no sign anywhere.

    Really hope you get your bike sorted TR.

  23. #23
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    It is now 12 months since I shipped it to James and 3 months since last communications. It is over a week since I called him and no further correspondence. I was told by someone else to contact Moonman too so will try that.
    I am happy to get my frame or my money back from him. I really don't care any more.
    I hope that my experiences with James are a warning to others TBH.
    I know I am not the only person he has mucked around as I know of another in Australia who has been waiting longer than me and 3 others who simply won't bother sending their broken bikes back to him due to the drama involved.

  24. #24
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    I really hate to hear stories like this, it gives the whole custom bike industry a bad rap when it's really only a few bad apples. I bought a frame and fork from this builder about 8 years ago, and had to send the frame back twice and the fork once. In all cases, communication was lacking and turn around time was much longer than originally quoted, but I did eventually get my stuff back. BUT, this was a few years ago when Todd etc. were still there. From all I have heard and read, I would never buy anything else from them. There are many other builders out there that are more than willing to make your dream frame and have great CS. I understand the appeal of the BS frames, they really are beautiful, but just not worth it. It really is a shame, because James could be one of the premier builders in the world, but he's pissing it away.

    TR: If I was in CO, I would be happy to knock on his door on your behalf. I think the suggestion to contact Moonmen is a good one, maybe that can get some dialogue started.

    I currently have a deposit down for my new dream bike with Waltworks, whom I've heard nothing but good thinks about. Not sexy curvy titanium, but functional steel and great CS.

  25. #25
    TR
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    Another phone message left and an email sent to Moonmen.
    Thanks for the suggestion bikeny and mendoncyclesmith.

  26. #26
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    Keep us posted. Man up black sheep bikes.
    Save a tree & wipe your butt with an owl.
    Thank your local Sierra Club.

  27. #27
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    I am glad we can have a thread to discuss problems with a high end bike and not have some knucklehead chime in with "1st world problems" Got so sick of hearing that.:-)

    TR pick up a Carbon frame from On One and get down the road.......

    On-One Mountain Bikes

    Put the drama behind you. Feel good that you probably helped more than one person from ordering a BS.

  28. #28
    TR
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    DeeZee
    No carbon fibre in my house.
    Not for road or MTB.
    Steel Concorde, titanium Moots and alloy Banshee.
    No CF EVER!!!

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    DeeZee
    No carbon fibre in my house.
    Not for road or MTB.
    Steel Concorde, titanium Moots and alloy Banshee.
    No CF EVER!!!
    As a former Ti lover I understand the affection.

    But don't knock it until you try it!

    Once you go carbon there is no going back!

    jk

  30. #30
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    Oh I have had carbon.
    3 frames, 3 breakages in short time.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    Oh I have had carbon.
    3 frames, 3 breakages in short time.
    Hummm.....Interesting.

    I have had great luck with Carbon. Full Sus bikes, Rigid SS...etc.

    Over the years I have noticed that all m-bike frame materials can and will break.

    Maybe your next Ti frame should be from Kona or a bigger player that will stand by their product?

  32. #32
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    Not sure any of them will look good with a titanium truss form and H-bars.

    You know it is all about the look.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeZee View Post
    Hummm.....Interesting.

    I have had great luck with Carbon. Full Sus bikes, Rigid SS...etc.

    Over the years I have noticed that all m-bike frame materials can and will break.

    Maybe your next Ti frame should be from Kona or a bigger player that will stand by their product?
    All bikes break, period. The problem is that most of these custom Ti builders are "artists" and don't have their frames tested let alone design them in a program which tells them if they are going to break or not.

    There are numerous threads right now on this first page of MTBR of TI bike breakage issues. They essentially are welding tubes together which look really pretty with little to no computer design. It's a gamble really.

    If you really want to geek out, watch some of these videos.

    https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...tress+Analysis

    https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...20bike%20frame

    Pretty much all major bike manufacturers have to pass EN/CEN testing standards to sell into Europe and beyond utilizing FEA design software. Unfortunately, this program costs about $5K per seat and a yearly fee to stay current.

  34. #34
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    Trust me, you're not alone, it's just that most folks haven't voiced their problems (not a criticism of you by any means). I'm actually surprised that you haven't gotten slammed for doing so actually. When I voiced my displeasure over the same builder I was given all kinds of flack. Luckily, my old bike/s belong to others now and I don't have to worry about them any longer. Good Luck is about all I can say.

  35. #35
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    If what everyone in this post is saying is true, about this builder being slow to build and warranty, they should be out of business. You are foolish to order from this person. Please , Please, make sure your experience ends up in an online review of said builder. It would be horrible to order from someone like this, not knowing what you are getting into. Thanks for sharing your experience. I would not not even consider a product from somebody like that, in this modern age where customer service is so great from top manufactures. Of course I'm not super cool, but my previous 4 NINER BIKES, and TURNER 5 SPOT, all had such great customer support. Even GT warrantied me a new Carbon frame. I am always "just cool enough" to be riding an actual bike on the trails. Boy, what a nightmare for you. Good luck, and sell that POS when it's finally fixed.

  36. #36
    Oaktown Honkey on Strava
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    One of my friends used to work at DEAN, welding Ti. Through life circumstances, he ended up selling all his "COOL" bikes. He now rocks a REDLINE $289 frame. He is one of the better technical trials style riders I have seen in person. he is always smiling on his Redline.

  37. #37
    TR
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    Looks like the message has finally reached him.

  38. #38
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    Sorry for your troubles! Threads like this are so important cause you find out quick who to stay away from!!!

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoolie View Post
    If what everyone in this post is saying is true, about this builder being slow to build and warranty, they should be out of business. You are foolish to order from this person. Please , Please, make sure your experience ends up in an online review of said builder. It would be horrible to order from someone like this, not knowing what you are getting into. Thanks for sharing your experience. I would not not even consider a product from somebody like that, in this modern age where customer service is so great from top manufactures. Of course I'm not super cool, but my previous 4 NINER BIKES, and TURNER 5 SPOT, all had such great customer support. Even GT warrantied me a new Carbon frame. I am always "just cool enough" to be riding an actual bike on the trails. Boy, what a nightmare for you. Good luck, and sell that POS when it's finally fixed.
    I am always "just cool enough" to be riding an actual bike on the trails.

    LOL! Yea me too.

  40. #40
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    Did he just wake up four months after he said he was ready to ship the bike back to you? I can't imagine what kind of excuse could cover that level of incompetence.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    Looks like the message has finally reached him.
    I'll keep my fingers crossed that it's more than empty promises...

  42. #42
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    Do tell. Did you get your bike back or just another promise? If you don't get it this time it may be that he no longer has it. Seems almost like kidnapping the bike.

  43. #43
    TR
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    Tracking says it is enroute to me.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    Tracking says it is enroute to me.
    I'll uncross when my fingers when it's back in your hands and you're happy that it is right. Tracking number is a step in the right direction.

  45. #45
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    Yea!

  46. #46
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    That is some stellar customer service they got going there

  47. #47
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    Lets just hope that the problem has been fixed. It
    isn't a done deal yet, and I sure wouldn't trust the
    guy.

  48. #48
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    James makes beautiful bikes. Hope whatever his problems are that he's able to overcome them.

  49. #49
    TR
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    Well it is back and it looks great.
    Chainstays are noticeably more chunky.
    Bead blasted logo looks good.
    Maybe I am just never happy but I thought I may have at least got a t-shirt or something additional to make up for the wait.

    Anyway, I have added it to my build projects.

    Is 11 months too long?-10959535_10152775850418717_2369088014218640042_n.jpg

  50. #50
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    TR.....My only question.....Is the frame straight and in alignment after the repair?? My frame had just poor alignment. Visible to the naked eye

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onetrack View Post
    TR.....My only question.....Is the frame straight and in alignment after the repair?? My frame had just poor alignment. Visible to the naked eye
    Will check it once I get my wheels back from the shop.
    It appeared OK from my quick look.
    If not I will ride it until it breaks and then scrap it.

  52. #52
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    I don't think it is a case of being "never happy". You got jammed by this company/guy and it sucks. I wouldn't want anything to do with them based on what has been described in this thread.

  53. #53
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    ^ +1 on that.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onetrack View Post
    TR.....My only question.....Is the frame straight and in alignment after the repair?? My frame had just poor alignment. Visible to the naked eye
    Mine were never aligned properly.... all 2.5 of them. It really liked to turn left.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    Well it is back and it looks great.
    Finally I can uncross my fingers. Happy your "ordeal" is over.

  56. #56
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    Well the inevitable has happened again. My BS is broken, again. Purchased in July 2011. Broke on 20 January 2013 and was shipped to US for repair. Returned to me on 25/5/2013. I have not ridden it much since and decided to give her a detail today. the results are below. I couldn't be bothered going through the warranty process again, especially as times seem to have blown out and CS is in the toilet. She now hangs on the wall and may live again as a pub runner, after being repaired locally.

    On a positive note, my 2006 Niner Sir 9 is going as strong as the day I bought it. Am looking at getting another one to replace BS.

    Is 11 months too long?-ffe3ed53-d7a7-4393-a345-10b5c126d226_zpslrzjnrvl.jpg

    Is 11 months too long?-44213500-c229-4445-924e-cd39a4348b43_zpsv1picdmt.jpg

  57. #57
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    I might add that I'm also in Australia.

  58. #58
    TR
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    That is crap Fraaank.
    Hopefully you can find someone in Australia to fix it given it is steel.

    Meanwhile, mine is built up again.
    Hopefully it will last longer than 12 months.

    Is 11 months too long?-10922677_10152782176243717_4255186700057633762_n.jpg

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    Meanwhile, mine is built up again.
    Hopefully it will last longer than 12 months.
    That's still a beautiful bike -- hope it lasts a long time.

    You and others chiming in here have every right to be upset/angry/livid with Black Sheep. I've said it before and will say it again here -- I'd never deal with a frame builder that I can't drive to in short order and knock on their door. I'm lucky enough to live within 2 hours drive of a dozen or more worthy frame builders, and I expect much of the riding public in the USA and Europe are as well. So that being said, I've been able to get James of Black Sheep the one time I needed him. He met me in his shop on a Saturday afternoon of a three-day holiday weekend and converted the EBB on my 8 year-old frame from one using a clam-shell (Bushnell) expanding eccentric to a split shell BB (using the Phil Wood insert), done to get rid of the squeak and slippage problem -- worked like a charm. All for the cost of the Phil Wood eccentric insert (media blasting on the seat tube included). So...it is possible to have a "good" Black Sheep experience.

    My frames and forks have been sturdy and show no signs of slowing down -- they're now 10 and 8 years old, with lots of miles on them, and remain my only mountain bikes. About a month ago, the upright Yakima rack on my car failed at 65 mph and I watched in the rearview mirror as my 10 year-old Black Sheep frame and fork went pinwheeling down the highway behind me. The rear rim and saddle were destroyed, but everything else was unfazed -- frame and fork are straight and it rides like nothing every happened.

    Again, my positive experience with James and Black Sheep do not invalidate your experience. Indeed, I would think anyone who can't easily get to the Black Sheep shop would be crazy to commission a frame from them. And based on the countless stories about boutique frame builders being hard to reach and making promises they can't or never had the intention of keeping, I think it's asking for problems if you can only deal with a builder over the phone/email/skype. The exception might be Walt of Walt Works as he for years has been very clear about his schedule and what he's doing at any given moment. But even he's only a 5 hour drive away from me, and Park City is worth visiting anytime of the year.
    "The plural of anecdote is not data." -- Attributed to various people in a variety of forms, but always worth remembering...

  60. #60
    TR
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    Lasted just over 2 years.
    Bye bye Blacksheep.


  61. #61
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    I only had to deal with him for a seatpost order. I would never order from him again. I'm really to sorry to hear about this new problem.

  62. #62
    transmitter~receiver
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    Quote Originally Posted by TR View Post
    Lasted just over 2 years.
    Bye bye Blacksheep.
    that sucks... so frustrating.
    CrapSheep
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  63. #63
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    Wow.
    CRAMBA Chairman

  64. #64
    Trail Gnome
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    Thatís a bummer to hear about experiences like this. Iíve broke quite a few frames myself; some were small custom builders, and some were gigantic companies...all the frames were replaced, eventually. Some companies are great with their warranty process, and others are obviously annoyed by you! All frames eventually break...I would recommend buying from local companies, or ones with awesome warranties

  65. #65
    TR
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    Quote Originally Posted by griz View Post
    Thatís a bummer to hear about experiences like this. Iíve broke quite a few frames myself; some were small custom builders, and some were gigantic companies...all the frames were replaced, eventually. Some companies are great with their warranty process, and others are obviously annoyed by you! All frames eventually break...I would recommend buying from local companies, or ones with awesome warranties
    Well lifetime is pretty awesome.
    Unless the builder just doesn't give a sh1t.

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