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  1. #401
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    Randy Watson ??

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    Ok cool our king troll is back. Welcome back DC

    Cute video and it proves what exactly Oh, a decent rider can get air on a 29'r on perfectly smooth trails no less with not a rock in sight. Hey, Travis Pastrana can do a 3 man backflip now on a dirtbike so what's that prove? Trust me you're gonna see allot more guys doing that on a 26" or 650B bike than a 29'r

    . I do not like the way 650b parts are cannibalizing 29er would-be projects, which would exist if 27,5er never came into existence.
    WTF is this you lame troll? I'm sure you 29'r guys will figure out a way to pair up a 22T ring up front with the new XX1 10/42 cassette that should make you happy and you have plenty of 140mm 29'r bikes to choose from now + the 29'r wheels add what, another 3" of effective travel all by themselves...don't they? Idiot
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  3. #403
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    Ok cool our king troll is back. Welcome back DC

    Cute video and it proves what exactly Oh, a decent rider can get air on a 29'r on perfectly smooth trails no less with not a rock in sight. Hey, Travis Pastrana can do a 3 man backflip now on a dirtbike so what's that prove? Trust me you're gonna see allot more guys doing that on a 26" or 650B bike than a 29'r



    WTF is this you lame troll? I'm sure you 29'r guys will figure out a way to pair up a 22T ring up front with the new XX1 10/42 cassette that should make you happy and you have plenty of 140mm 29'r bikes to choose from now + the 29'r wheels add what, another 3" of effective travel all by themselves...don't they? Idiot
    NICE ONE! king troll LMAO
    he is a moron!

  4. #404
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    Bike Radar Article after Nino Schurter's first WC win on 650b bike:

    According to team director (and racing legend) Thomas Frischknecht, 650b struck the team as being the perfect in-between size, offering advantages similar to the best attributes of the 26in and 29in wheel formats but with little compromise. "We had some tests here in South Africa in December when we had the 26, the 27.5 and the 29er all built up exactly the same with the same wheels and everything," Frischknecht told BikeRadar just prior to the start of the race.

    "We tested them in a group of three pretty intensely over 14 days and we came to the conclusion that the 27.5 feels like 26 in tight, technical and slower stuff but rides more like a 29er on faster singletrail and gives you almost the same safe feel. Our conclusion after those tests was that it's not a compromise – it combines the best of both worlds and we're totally convinced this is the way to go."

    Frischknect added that much of the motivation for going with 650b in the first place was due to the height of team riders Schurter and Florian Vogel, who stand at 1.73m (5ft 8in) and 1.74m (5ft 9in), respectively.

    "Nino always had a hard time finding his position on the 29er because he has a very sporty position on his bike, having his handlebar very low," he said. "Even on his 26in he goes without spacers or anything and with the 29er he had to compromise his position on the bike. He liked the wheels themselves but he could never get the position right for his size."

    "We just figured that going from 26 to 29 is too big of a jump," 'Frischy' continued. "People generally say that people taller than 175cm [5ft 9in ~ ed] are perfect for a 29er but people that are shorter should stick to a 26. But if you look at the core group of riders, they're all 175cm! So you're right in the middle of those sizes and with 27.5, you basically hit the right proportion for the core group of mountain bikers."
    Nino Schurter Wins World Cup #1 On 650b Wheels - BikeRadar

    Australian Mountain Bike interview with Kirk Pacenti:

    Can you tell us what inspired you to develop the 650B wheel size?

    KP: Lot’s of things, but primary impetus for the 650B wheel design was my increasing frustration in designing frames around 29” wheels. Don’t get me wrong, I like 29ers, and have been a long time advocate of the wheel size. And to be fair, when 29ers were being developed no one envisioned a 5” travel full suspension rig as the “everyday, every man’s mountain bike”. Ten years ago 5” was still the realm of Free Ride and DH bikes.

    But as suspension travel increased for XC and Trail use, so did the compromises designers had to make simply to accommodate the 29” wheel in a frame with 100mm or more of suspension travel. I have come to the conclusion that one can’t design a ‘proper’ 29er full suspension bike with more than 80mm of travel, and I am not alone in that assessment.

    From a designer’s point of view, the strength of the [650B] wheel size is that it allows a frame to be designed with 4-6” of travel or more using pretty standard and well proven 26” wheel frame geometries. Basically you’re getting most of the benefits of a 29” wheel in a tighter, lighter and better handling package. It also works well across a much broader range of frame sizes and platforms than 29” wheels do.
    BikeLugs.com

    Who am I going to believe: Mountain Bike Legend , Thomas Frischknecht; and frame designer/industry insider, Kirk Pacenti, or some anonymous troll on the Internet?
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  5. #405
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    Quote Originally Posted by ljsmith View Post
    This whole thread is idiotic because the dude who started it was on here a few weeks ago talking about building a 650b bike.
    hee hee hee

    BTW, I am really looking hard at a 650b for my next full suspension bike. And funny enough, the more people that tell me not to get one, the more I want one! I may stay with a 26"er but seeing this thread back in 2009 and seeing it pop back up now...it might seem the 650b has some staying power, no?
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  6. #406
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    Quote Originally Posted by ljsmith View Post
    this whole thread is idiotic because the dude who started it was on here a few weeks ago talking about building a 650b bike.
    rofl!

  7. #407
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidcopperfield View Post
    Common belief says that 29ers cannont be used in AM rides, but wfo9 shreds it. If it works so great there is no need to take a huge step backwards to 584mm rim.
    It's happening, b:tch. Get over it.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/650b/eurobike-2012-a-812617.html

  8. #408
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    i'm one of those 'tweeners', only 5'9" (on a good day), who doesn't think the 29er bikes are a good fit. aren't there also a series of suspension compromises on the 29ers...like not enough room for a bigger travel (140mm and up) fork? i'm hoping that the 650b's become widely accepted in the next couple of years as it could suit someone like myself really well. otherwise i'll likely stick with a small wheel bike.

  9. #409
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    Quote Originally Posted by cohenfive View Post
    aren't there also a series of suspension compromises on the 29ers...like not enough room for a bigger travel (140mm and up) fork?
    Flip the bars upside down
    http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-componen...rs-744348.html

  10. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidcopperfield View Post
    Do you really think that fitting and geometry issues are limited to the front and that just inverting a stem would magically make them disappear ?


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  11. #411
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  12. #412
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    Quote Originally Posted by danielsilva View Post
    Do you really think that fitting and geometry issues are limited to the front and that just inverting a stem would magically make them disappear ?
    Yes, he really does think that. He does not actually own or ride any bikes.

  13. #413
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    It’s hilarious how people claim they can change physics according to their likings.
    Let me quote some Kirk's false, fanatical statements. It looks like he contradicts the facts. He wants 29er riders to start detesting riding 700c, so that he can get rich. I dislike dishonest marketing. No matter what 27,5” fanatics say it will not alter the fact that 650b 584mm is just 25mm bigger than 26” 559mm and 38mm smaller than a 622mm 29er.
    BikeLugs.com
    The best one:
    But as suspension travel increased for XC and Trail use, so did the compromises designers had to make simply to accommodate the 29 wheel in a frame with 100mm or more of suspension travel. I have come to the conclusion that one can’t design a proper 29er full suspension bike with more than 80mm of travel, and I am not alone in that assessment.
    The Lenz PBJ Lenz Sport :: The best full-suspension mountain bikes :: PBJ
    http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/bi...bj-651486.html
    Big Wheel Building: Bike check: Skippy's (demo) LenzSport PBJ.

    Here are some of his random thoughts:
    Fork? "Buttery smooth on small stuff, bottomless on big hits. Normally after a few days in the park my hands are killing me. Not this year. Only complaint is the thru-axle install/removal seems not very well thought out."
    Rear shock? "Invisible--just does it's job without noise or complaint. Very nice."
    Tires? "Great in the slop, great in the dry, no complaints."
    Brakes? "Noisy. Power is good, modulation is good, just too noisy."
    Gearing? "Perfect for park riding. On occasion I wish I had a few easier climbing gears so that I could self-shuttle. But then I'd have to pedal a 40lb slammed-post bike uphill!"
    Wheel flex? "None. Zero."
    Chain guide--any noise, slap, derailments? "None--seems to be a zero-maintenance system. I like that I haven't thought once about it 'til you just asked me."
    Given a clean slate, what would you change? "Brakes, to something that doesn't scream at me, and the fork thru-axle to something quick and easy like a Maxle."
    Any interest in going back to a 26" DH bike? "My only interest would be to compare them in the air on big booters, tables, gaps. But I don't see going back to 26".
    Care to comment on 26" vs. 29" for park-sized braking bumps and chop? "No comparison, 29" is worlds smoother."


    The difference would be just smaller, as 650b and 700c has a difference of 38mm, which is more than 26 and 27,5” and it feels (according to 650b believers) so much.

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    Jeff here says that 29ers should be built in DH version as well. The Question: 29ers in Downhill Racing? Why not?

    It only shows how poor builder Kirk is, if he can’t design a viable, decent 29er over 80mm suspension. He relies on the fact that there are not light 150x12mm hubs to make stiff and good 29er wheels, plus no 29er gearing, lack of upside down riser bars like these:
    http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-componen...rs-744348.html




    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk Pacenti
    Basically you’re getting most of the benefits of a 29” wheel in a tighter, lighter and better handling package
    Another marketing lie! He
    In apples to apples comparison basically you’re getting most of 26er’s riding characteristics as it is 25mm bigger than 26” and still 38mm smaller than a 29er, so if the first 25mm is so cool in terms of smoothing out the terrain etc. then next 38mm would be bewildering. Somehow he fails to mention it. Perhaps it looks bad on 27,5” reputation and can blight sales.
    The proof :
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk Pacenti
    Look, I have a lot of money invested in the wheel size, but I refuse to become dogmatic about it. I think 650B wheels will appeal to most anyone who enjoys riding bikes, but people should ride whatever works best for them.
    Marketing ramblings blah blah. “Buy my bikes etc. I reinvented the wheel.”

    Now let’s get to Scott and god-like Nino- omnipotentus kid changing the laws of physics
    Nino Schurter Wins World Cup #1 On 650b Wheels - BikeRadar

    The first fault- all three bikes were build the same, which means using 26er technology, which put 29ers at disadvantage.
    when we had the 26, the 27.5 and the 29er all built up exactly the same with the same wheels and everything,
    Why didn’t they use proper fork offset, shorter top tubes, wider hub flanges or 29er gearing? Apples to oranges. A lot of untapped 29er potential has been lost. Using such approach I could prove just anything like the earth is flat as when I stand on the ground I don’t see the curvature.

    "We tested them in a group of three pretty intensely over 14 days and we came to the conclusion that the 27.5 feels like 26 in tight, technical and slower stuff but rides more like a 29er on faster singletrail and gives you almost the same safe feel. Our conclusion after those tests was that it's not a compromise – it combines the best of both worlds and we're totally convinced this is the way to go."
    It only proves how poorly designed their 29ers had been and that they are trying to change laws of physics. A 25mm bigger wheel will not feel like a 63mm wheel and if first 25mm is so huge, then another 38mm will be almost like twice the 650b-over-a-26er feeling.

    “We just figured that going from 26 to 29 is too big of a jump," 'Frischy' continued. "People generally say that people taller than 175cm [5ft 9in ~ ed] are perfect for a 29er but people that are shorter should stick to a 26. But if you look at the core group of riders, they're all 175cm! So you're right in the middle of those sizes and with 27.5, you basically hit the right proportion for the core group of mountain bikers."
    And let’s see what Christopher Sauser says
    Bigger Is Better | Cyclingnews.com
    Luckily we Specialized racers are fortunate that our bikes' geometry is perfectly adapted for the big (29er) wheels. All of us - even a small Burry Stander - can ride stock frames and still find the perfect position. Plus our bikes fly around tight corners. We wouldn't want to give up the great rollover ability of the big wheels, their stability at speed or their extra traction. Even in cross country racing. Every smaller wheel size is compromise.

    And what Nino says?

    "Nino always had a hard time finding his position on the 29er because he has a very sporty position on his bike, having his handlebar very low," he said. "Even on his 26in he goes without spacers or anything and with the 29er he had to compromise his position on the bike. He liked the wheels themselves but he could never get the position right for his size."

    So if he used dropper bars- upside down risers then the position would have been acceptable. So why haven’t Scott produced such a handle bar? I believe Nino spent all his life on 26ers and this fact blights the fair, unbiased assessment. He is too much accustomed to 26ers and 27,5” poses a change – 25mm-- which is much more subtle than a step to 29ers- 63mm. I reckon he has never gotten a good position on any 29er and that's where the shoe pinches.

    All this wheel size is directed at those who are still not on properly designed 29er and believe that a well thought-out 29er will never exist. It is more of a psychological stuff much less a mathematical numbers. Lack of proper understanding amongst population adds to this occurrence marketing hogwash is a faith. I believe that if all those money invested in 27,5/650b/584mm were invested into new 29er specific technology&parts (tread patterns, gearing, fork offsets and forks, dropper bars, new hubs) they would be no one outside of DH-FR scene wanting a smaller wheel. Even 32ers and 36ers would thrive. 584mm rim on wider scale is a major distorter hampering introduction in 29er segment.
    I fully agree that if standards designed with 26” 559mm rim in mind are applied, then only a wheel size, which is closest to it will work well. Further proving is useless and is of no advantage to smaller wheel. The farther in size you get the worse it will work, that is why 622mm needs all parts designed from the scratch.

    Almost At the bottom
    February Niner Update - New Jet 9 Pics, Niner gear, WFO 9 Racing, Demo Dealers
    THE W.F.O. 9 BEGINS THE SEASON WITH A WIN!
    Our versatile photographer and good friend, Michael Darter, has been testing the limits of the WFO 9 in the Southridge Winter Series held in Fontana, Calif. Darter took the first two DH events in the VetPro category. He took the first race by almost ten seconds over second place and only about seven seconds behind top pro Eric Carter's time. Series event #2 he won by almost six seconds. He was racing the WFO with WTB Kodiak tires out for only the second time for the series opening race. Darter says he is looking forward to more experimentation with the rubber over varied terrain, but his initial impressions were hugely positive. This guy has the skills and the W.F.O. 9 helped him take them to the next level. Way to go, Darter! Our versatile photographer and good friend, Michael Darter, has been testing the limits of the WFO 9 in the Southridge Winter Series held in Fontana, Calif. Darter took the first two DH events in the VetPro category. He took the first race by almost ten seconds over second place and only about seven seconds behind top pro Eric Carter's time. Series event #2 he won by almost six seconds. He was racing the WFO with WTB Kodiak tires out for only the second time for the series opening race. Darter says he is looking forward to more experimentation with the rubber over varied terrain, but his initial impressions were hugely positive. This guy has the skills and the W.F.O. 9 helped him take them to the next level. Way to go, Darter!

    As we see 29ers can work pretty well in DH and AM, where- according to 27,5” fanatics- they are not able to. FR is a stunt like free ride so it is a different beast. Kiddy wheel proponents contradict themselves since they dismiss the advantages, because of shortage of which they left 26ers. Thus for them the best increase in traction, stability, rolloverability ends with 584mm rim and cannot further be improved with even bigger wheels. Exactly what 26er holdouts used to say. This approach is ridiculous. These are urban legends and not facts.

  14. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidcopperfield View Post
    <some hilarious rambling about something, completely pulled out of the depths of his arse>

    So if he used dropper bars- upside down risers then the position would have been acceptable.

    <more rambling and random quotes>
    He did ....
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  15. #415
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidcopperfield View Post
    It’s hilarious how people claim they can change physics according to their likings.
    Let me quote some Kirk's false, fanatical statements. It looks like he contradicts the facts. He wants 29er riders to start detesting riding 700c, so that he can get rich. I dislike dishonest marketing.
    It only shows how poor builder Kirk is, if he can’t design a viable, decent 29er over 80mm suspension. He relies on the fact that there are not light 150x12mm hubs to make stiff and good 29er wheels, plus no 29er gearing, lack of upside down riser bars like these:
    http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-componen...rs-744348.html
    .
    You forgot your medication. maybe you need more doctors.. before you get yourself into trouble.

  16. #416
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    Quote Originally Posted by colker1 View Post
    You forgot your medication. maybe you need more doctors.. before you get yourself into trouble.
    To be honest, I think his act is no longer entertaining.

  17. #417
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    To be honest, I think his act is no longer entertaining.

    Agreed. I was kinda missing him, until post #413. Now I think he must have been beaten daily with a 70's russian 650b wheel for some reason. Understandibly he has no passion for the wheel size. Veery sad.

  18. #418
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    As a short man in a tall man's world, I am thankful for the arrival of our 650b overlords and look forward to forking over all my hard-earned cash to them.

    While I'm here, does anyone else find it funny that Capt. Troll links to a post on the 29er parts forum where even the 29er guys are calling him a nutty-nutty-nut bag?
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  19. #419
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    Quote Originally Posted by slomo View Post

    While I'm here, does anyone else find it funny that Capt. Troll links to a post on the 29er parts forum where even the 29er guys are calling him a nutty-nutty-nut bag?
    There's a reason that he has more negative rep than anyone on the forum. Just imagine what a joy he must be in real life.
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  20. #420
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    For a guy that believes everyone everywhere in every situation should be riding what he thinks they should, he sure throws the word "fanatic" around a lot. Zero credibility, especially given the insults, name calling and inaccuracies he's resorted to now that his holy cause is lost, truly lost and he can only spit and hiss and cower like Grima Wormtongue thrown from the halls of Rohan.

    And talk about ignoring physics! Touting the increased momentum and rollover capability of wagon wheels while ignoring the increased gyroscopic effect and negative impact on acceleration, braking and snappy directional changes is just as bad or worse. Flipping riser bars and bike frame geometry tricks are compromises I as a shorter rider simply am not willing to make, especially in order to fit on wheels I don't really enjoy riding anyway.

    I've never said everyone should be riding 650b, or that it's the best option for everyone all the time. It works for me. If you're riding a 26" and wish it had a bit more rollover ease, or a 29'er and wish it had a little livelier handling, maybe it would work for you too. That's it. That's all.

  21. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveF View Post
    For a guy that believes everyone everywhere in every situation should be riding what he thinks they should, he sure throws the word "fanatic" around a lot. Zero credibility, especially given the insults, name calling and inaccuracies he's resorted to now that his holy cause is lost, truly lost and he can only spit and hiss and cower like Grima Wormtongue thrown from the halls of Rohan.
    You mean Dwt? Yeah this guy has nothing in common with physics. He just throws around, what he wants to believe. In middle ages he would proclaim earth flat, since the church says so.

    Touting the increased momentum and rollover capability of wagon wheels while ignoring the increased gyroscopic effect and negative impact on acceleration, braking and snappy directional changes is just as bad or worse.
    This one is Kirk, right? He says that 27,5 does not lose any point to 26ers in things you named. He ignores added weight, increased gyroscopic effect in 650b, only 700c has too much of it and any 29er bicycle over 80mm of suspension is cursed and can't be ridden properly. It is funny how people tend to believe in contradicting physical aspects of wheel.

    Another very good test of wfo9 by Pink bike with video
    Niner WFO9 Bike Check Video | Oak Bay Bicycles


    No need for a smaller wheel. No gyroscopic suffering spotted.

    Can you freeride a 29er? Again no need to compromise traction, lower centre of gravity. 700C works very well.
    Web Edit: Can You Freeride a 29er? | Oak Bay Bicycles

    Flipping riser bars and bike frame geometry tricks are compromises
    Roadies use roadies bars and 29ers can flip 26ers bars upside down. What is wrong with flipping the riser bars? Plase elaborate

    This guy rides DH with dropper bars, so XC or AM is a piece of cake.





    Small frames for short people
    https://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/s...rs-384998.html
    and ten year old kid on a 29er, who improved all his lap times!
    https://forums.mtbr.com/9405713-post67.html

    It works for me. If you're riding a 26" and wish it had a bit more rollover ease, or a 29'er and wish it had a little livelier handling, maybe it would work for you too. That's it. That's all.
    But if someone does not want to compromise a rollover ablitiy or traction riding 29ers then 27,5er is nonsense. Why going backwards? If you want livlier handling just snap a 51mm offset fork. That's it, you do not need a smaller wheel.
    Until recently 26er had been a holy grail, not just too big not just too small, why -out of the blue- just a 25mm bigger wheel should be one? Why not 650A or C or 700D?

    And I never said that everyone must ride 29ers, I've always told everyone that those things, which 650b should allegedly do much better than 700C, are already done with ease, so be kind not to warp my words.
    Last edited by Davidcopperfield; 09-14-2012 at 10:12 AM.

  22. #422
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  23. #423
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    I give up. 29'ers are the ONLY mtb wheel size, cure cancer and will lead to World Peace.

    What was I thinking??


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  24. #424
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    The "Penny farthers" had bars dropped down near the crown like DC. Seems like a great idea for handling to me. Maybe not so good in a otb situation but it has a keen look anyways.

  25. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidcopperfield View Post

    But if someone does not want to compromise a rollover ablitiy or traction riding 29ers then 27,5er is nonsense. Why going backwards? If you want livlier handling just snap a 51mm offset fork. That's it, you do not need a smaller wheel.
    Until recently 26er had been a holy grail, not just too big not just too small, why -out of the blue- just a 25mm bigger wheel should be one? Why not 650A or C or 700D?

    And I never said that everyone must ride 29ers, I've always told everyone that those things, which 650b should allegedly do much better than 700C, are already done with ease, so be kind not to warp my words.
    Take the dumba$$ proselytizing somewhere else.

  26. #426
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    Why this thread is an ill conceived Idea

    Can we get a Mod in here to close this Trollorific thread?
    I'm pretty sick of having to scan past it for actual 650b content.
    And on another note, DC you ever get in my way on a North Cakalaky trail My 650b and I will run right over you Juvenile of me to say? Yes, but still I enjoy the thought!

  27. #427
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    Just something to add to this thread....

    Mountainbiking is still young in it evolution. Compare our industry to the R&D that has gone into and backed up motocross design. We are not even close in comparison.

    Haulting our evolution at this point wouldn't make a lot of sense.

    I've gone to a 650B out back and a 29" up front. For its intended application - hard trail riding - it works far better for me.

  28. #428
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    I watched the Eurobike video a few times. I was very interested in the theory that 650 "might" replace 26" wheels... I am amazed that no one here pooed themselves over the idea being tossed out.

    I am even more interested in the wheel size and am really liking the idea of having something around here that no one else rides!
    Remember when we were kids and our Mom's said we could not play in the mud? I'm making up for it now!!

  29. #429
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    Another great Trail-am 29er Rip9 Rdo. What do we need 650b for? 29ers do everything what 650b does.
    » Niner’s New 2013 R.I.P. 9 RDO - Sick Lines – mountain bike reviews, news, videos | Your comprehensive downhill and freeride mountain bike resource

    The difference is only 38mm so one cannot say that 27,5" so much lighter, tossable. shorter. Only marketing guys do that and naives buy it. Thanks for green rep in advance.

    Rip 9 RDO

  30. #430
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidcopperfield View Post
    Another great Trail-am 29er Rip9 Rdo. What do we need 650b for? 29ers do everything what 650b does.
    » Niner’s New 2013 R.I.P. 9 RDO - Sick Lines – mountain bike reviews, news, videos | Your comprehensive downhill and freeride mountain bike resource

    The difference is only 38mm so one cannot say that 27,5" so much lighter, tossable. shorter. Only marketing guys do that and naives buy it. Thanks for green rep in advance.



    Stop. Now. Go post in the 29er forum. No more posting nonsense here. You are welcome for the green, if you keep posting here I will make sure it turns to red again.

  31. #431
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidcopperfield View Post
    What do we need 650b for? 29ers do everything what 650b does.
    NO WAI !!! And here i thought my set of 650b wheels were the only ones that made me shoot stars and rainbows out of my poop hole and make me feel like was riding an unicorn !


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    Nah, it is prophet DC who makes me feel like a unicorn.


  33. #433
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    This is my latest video riding mah 650b bike

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/3KT_89gi2Dk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    Too bad i'm not the only one now
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  34. #434
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidcopperfield View Post
    Another great Trail-am 29er Rip9 Rdo. What do we need 650b for? 29ers do everything what 650b does.
    » Niner’s New 2013 R.I.P. 9 RDO - Sick Lines – mountain bike reviews, news, videos | Your comprehensive downhill and freeride mountain bike resource

    The difference is only 38mm so one cannot say that 27,5" so much lighter, tossable. shorter. Only marketing guys do that and naives buy it. Thanks for green rep in advance.

    Rip 9 RDO
    We get it, you sleep in the same bed as your Niner....
    Remember when we were kids and our Mom's said we could not play in the mud? I'm making up for it now!!

  35. #435
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProfGumby View Post
    We get it, you sleep in the same bed as your Niner....
    No one else will share it. Not that it makes an important difference, but DC does your Niner have a girl's name or a boy's name?


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  36. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidcopperfield View Post
    Another great Trail-am 29er Rip9 Rdo. What do we need 650b for? 29ers do everything what 650b does.
    » Niner’s New 2013 R.I.P. 9 RDO - Sick Lines – mountain bike reviews, news, videos | Your comprehensive downhill and freeride mountain bike resource

    The difference is only 38mm so one cannot say that 27,5" so much lighter, tossable. shorter. Only marketing guys do that and naives buy it. Thanks for green rep in advance.

    Rip 9 RDO
    Yup, it's a nice very bike and I also can appreciate 29'ers as another option... to bad you can't do the same with anything but

    What I can't stand is you DC! Get the F out of our forum and go troll someplace else once and for all. No one here cares or wants to hear your stupid ass opinions...ever!! Matter of fact, it pretty much seems that way in all the other forums you post in as well you just grind people the wrong way. Get out and go find another sport to bother people in as we don't give a sh*t what you think. Freaking troll
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    What idiots have been giving DC positive rep? I noticed he no longer has 100 red chicklets.
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  38. #438
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    He staged the biggest comeback in the mtbr history. The mtbr moderators must be nuts.

  39. #439
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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    He staged the biggest comeback in the mtbr history. The mtbr moderators must be nuts.
    I think he must be on EPO


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    This thread is awesome, it needs to be kept alive just as a reminder to a few posters that have put their foot in their mouths, what you say here is on record. I really like how the OP thinks a 69 makes total sense but can't rap his head around 650b, that's funny stuff.

    I must admit to being resistant at first, that all changed when I tried a 650b bike.

  41. #441
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    Yup, it's a nice very bike and I also can appreciate 29'ers as another option... to bad you can't do the same with anything but

    What I can't stand is you DC! Get the F out of our forum and go troll someplace else once and for all. No one here cares or wants to hear your stupid ass opinions...ever!! Matter of fact, it pretty much seems that way in all the other forums you post in as well you just grind people the wrong way. Get out and go find another sport to bother people in as we don't give a sh*t what you think. Freaking troll
    Best way to get rid of trolls is to ignore them. Any response, positive or negative, just fuels the fire.
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  42. #442
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidcopperfield View Post
    Another great Trail-am 29er Rip9 Rdo. What do we need 650b for? 29ers do everything what 650b does.
    » Niner’s New 2013 R.I.P. 9 RDO - Sick Lines – mountain bike reviews, news, videos | Your comprehensive downhill and freeride mountain bike resource

    The difference is only 38mm so one cannot say that 27,5" so much lighter, tossable. shorter. Only marketing guys do that and naives buy it. Thanks for green rep in advance.

    Rip 9 RDO
    My psychiatrist says I'm repressing the memory of me promising that we'd hang out on the weekend and eat pizza and be cool bros together.

  43. #443
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    This was a fun read.

    OP, do you have bike shops that actually have parts that you want (other than rim brake pads, cables tubes, chains and patch kits) in stock more than 5% of the time? I have six shops in my town and another five in less than an hour's drive, I can call them all and almost guarantee that they don't have a 700x28 road slick, a 26x2.5 anything, a worthwhile handlebar, a worthwhile fork...anything I ever want in stock. But they can order it. That's been the way since back when I was a pup, riding a plastic mag wheeled-scooter. If your LBS' stocks your bits, you are the most blessed rider ever for not having to be mindful to keep your own garage/basement/attic/shed stocked. I usually have to wait at least a week just for something as simple as cloth griptape.

    As for sizes (I skipped some pages, maybe somebody else made this point, if so, lo siento y'all), if we had to choose only between 30", 35", 40", 45", etc. waistband pants, we'd be a frumpy looking, uncomfortable mass of people. It confounds and frustrates me that the big companies don't market any respectable 24" full suspension mtbs or 24" road bikes for the 4'5"-5'2" adult crowd. While having no experience with 650's, it does seem to be a superfluous middle size just as having ten or eleven cogs in the back rather than just five or six does. It can be argued that if one just learns to be a better rider, a fully rigid 20" with a super-wide-range 4 ratio IGH and room for 4" tires plus fenders would do just fine, just tailor the top tube length, BB height and head angle for your body size, terrain and preferred pace. Then bike shops would only need to stock different strength levels, widths and spoke counts of one size of rim and different tread and with of one bead-size tire. The rebuttal is that learning the cycling disciplines to a black-belt level is not a priority for more than .01% of the worlds population and most would rather just have a set of bicycles that are tailored right down to the wheelsize for their terrain, pace and most importantly- body size.

    I do think that it is a shame that some people have let others do a poor job of thinking for them and foster a "fashion over function" mentality in what I think should be a purely function-based decision area, and yet more shameful that there are so many poor-advice givers out there who speak so matter-of-fact-ly on subjects of which they are actually quite far from being an authority.

    I have no room to comment on your behavior here, OP, as I believe that we are all on a journey in life and I wish you great progress on yours.

    Cheers and happy trails y'all.

  44. #444
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Duderino View Post

    It confounds and frustrates me that the big companies don't market any respectable 24" full suspension mtbs 24" road bikes for the 4'5"-5'2" adult crowd.
    The industry for apparently random reasons adopted 26" as the mtb wheel size standard some 40 years ago. Few of short stature complained about fit. A little more than 10 years ago, a much larger size @ 29" was introduced to improve roll and traction, and now is hugely popular. In short, the trend is for larger than 26" wheels, not smaller. If you, a population of one, are looking for a 24" FS bike, you need a custom. There is zero market for such a bike. As for road 650c is and has been available to fit juniors and adults of short stature. Again, a 24" road bike in your own words would be "superfluous" and would have zero marketability.

    While having no experience with 650's, it does seem to be a superfluous middle size
    Bingo. You have no experience, yet you feel qualified to conclude it is "superfluous". Why should anyone pay the slightest attention to anything you say? You are talking out of your butt.

    I do think that it is a shame that some people have let others do a poor job of thinking for them and foster a "fashion over function" mentality in what I think should be a purely function-based decision area, and yet more shameful that there are so many poor-advice givers out there who speak so matter-of-fact-ly on subjects of which they are actually quite far from being an authority.
    You do? Really? You need to look in a mirror.

    You have posted some of the most comical drivel I've ever read on MTBR. You make DC seem coherent, even rational. That is a heady accomplishment.


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  45. #445
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    The industry for apparently random reasons adopted 26" as the mtb wheel size standard some 40 years ago.

    Random? It was the most durable and available on the west coast for riders who, mostly, weren't any shorter than 5'5". For them a 24" wheel would've been too small and a 34" wheel would be as innapropriate as a 29" is for someone of 5'.

    Few of short stature complained about fit.

    Have you manning the bicycling industry complaint box for the last quarter century? That is a heck of a bold statement. I am 6'2". I have been approached be hundreds of adults below 5'4" about cycling, 100% of whom honestly believe that their only option is a kids bike and just take up other activities as a result.

    A little more than 10 years ago, a much larger size @ 29" was introduced to improve roll and traction, and now is hugely popular. In short, the trend is for larger than 26" wheels, not smaller. If you, a population of one, are looking for a 24" FS bike, you need a custom. There is zero market for such a bike. As for road 650c is and has been available to fit juniors and adults of short stature. Again, a 24" road bike in your own words would be "superfluous" and would have zero marketability.

    With regard to 29ers, the industry needed to address the needs of an ever growing (in height) population in general and in the mtbing community- not from my hindside, but if you need it cited, there is a problem.

    Bingo. You have no experience, yet you feel qualified to conclude it is "superfluous".

    You obvoiusly are no english major. I concluded no such thing. It was a parcel of logic directed at 650 detractors. Try reading it again. I neither said that no one needs eleven speed cogsets nor that wheel size increments smaller than three inches are useless.

    Why should anyone pay the slightest attention to anything you say? You are talking out of your butt.

    Wow, you are quite hostile seeming for such a place. Are you inviting me to avoid this meeting of the minds? Will you start a petition should I refuse?

    You do? Really? You need to look in a mirror.

    What exactly do you mean? Are you criticizing me for having a hydraulic disc brake equipped fixed gear mtb with a leather saddle and bullhorns, or for offering up my thoughts as is done by literally every single person who clicks the "post" button?

    You have posted some of the most comical drivel I've ever read on MTBR. You make DC seem coherent, even rational. That is a heady accomplishment.

    I'd like you to privately, or publicly if you wish, cite the posts of mine which you seem to deem worth deleting.

    Edit- wait, am I being trolled, like this is 4chan or some such tripe? Or are you serious?
    Last edited by Captain Duderino; 11-23-2012 at 06:38 PM.

  46. #446
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddle Up View Post
    This thread is awesome, it needs to be kept alive just as a reminder to a few posters that have put their foot in their mouths, what you say here is on record. I really like how the OP thinks a 69 makes total sense but can't rap his head around 650b, that's funny stuff.

    I must admit to being resistant at first, that all changed when I tried a 650b bike.
    The best part is that the OP - juansevo - actually started another thread relatively recently asking for advice for a 650b conversion...then got bent out of shape when I called him on it.

    Then there is DC.

    I am convinced he either doesn't ride or his idea of mountain biking involved mostly crushed gravel...

  47. #447
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    If you, a population of one, are looking for a 24" FS bike, you need a custom. There is zero market for such a bike.

    Huh? Stop by Family forum and ask that. Lots of people looking.

    My daughter now rides 24" FS Scott Spark Jr. With air shock (was pain in the butt to find 125mm), disk wheelset (frame was disk ready), and some upgraded bits - 9sp XT drivetrain off my older bike, custom cut 145mm crankset, light handlebars and seatpost - it is as good as anything. But even stock one was functional.

  48. #448
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    Quote Originally Posted by ljsmith View Post
    What idiots have been giving DC positive rep? I noticed he no longer has 100 red chicklets.

    Few off-camber regulars thought it would be funny or something. I see they are considering to reconsider.

  49. #449
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    Stop. Now. Go post in the 29er forum. No more posting nonsense here. You are welcome for the green, if you keep posting here I will make sure it turns to red again.
    BEWARE the wrath of AZ MTNS!!!







    I cant wait to bump this post out of the darkness in about 2 years.

  50. #450
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    Come on, OP...
    when are you gonna reveal that you started this thread as a joke?
    How long do we have to wait??
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  51. #451
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    Interview: Scott?s Benoit Grelier - BikeRadar
    “Finally, the success of 27.5in depends on all riders; if they like it and accept it or not. The success of Nino [Schurter] riding his Scale 700 is the best example. The move to 27.5in is the result of tests and research that are performance-oriented. From the feedback we’ve already received, the 27.5in standard is more than well accepted!”

  52. #452
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    I have been riding the el bastardo for three years and have just ordered the genius 700 SL frame to build another

    never go back to 26 and like the fun factor of the 650B

  53. #453
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    Ditto

    Quote Originally Posted by brucemyers View Post
    I have been riding the el bastardo for three years and have just ordered the genius 700 SL frame to build another

    never go back to 26 and like the fun factor of the 650B
    Well almost. I have an el Bast aswell and would get the Scott if budget allowed. Will subsrcibe to thread for your build up.
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  54. #454
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    Quote Originally Posted by brucemyers View Post
    never go back to 26 and like the fun factor of the 650B
    Amen to that!

    There's something to be said for riding style more so than fit or standard or weight or whatever else you want to make up as an excuse. Just head out to any trail system and see how eveybody hits the same obstacle/jump/drop...

    Here is a perfect example: Lets say I'm riding on a trail where ahead of me is a basketball sized rock or dirt mound that creates a ramp-like feature that rises 1 foot off the ground. If I'm on a 29er then most likely I'll roll over it with good speed but I won't pull up on my front end to get any respectable air time. If I'm on a 27.5er then I'll most likely jump off it with both wheels in the air and try to clear 2-3 feet. If I'm on a 26er then I'll most likely try to jump off it and tweak the front or rear wheel while trying to get a decent amount of air. Same goes for a large dirt jump that is similar in size to a picnic table where the top flat is about 3-4 feet long to the tranny. I have yet to see a 29er get both wheels off the ground and come down on the tranny thereby just rolling over it and smoothing out the transitions and screwing it up. It's an obstacle designed to be approached with speed so you can clear the top and come down on the tranny...

    What I'm trying to say is that I like to pull up on the front end of just about evey single obstacle I possibly can. While I like to go fast and roll over obstacles like everybody else, I have much more fun trying to pop off small jumps and bumps and getting air where ever and whenever I can... I find it very difficult for me to ride the same trail the same way on a 29er. However, I will say that I do ride it faster and roll over obstacles with greater ease, but I can't pop and flick the bike around on small jumps and bumps and forget about any big hits like I mentioned above. I have yet to fully ride a 27.5er so I'm going to give it a try. But here's where the real beauty of 27.5 shines: I can put these wheelse on my 26er frame without any mod and I'm pretty sure I could put them on my 29er without any mod as well. Truly the best of both worlds.

    It's interesting how the die-hard 29ers are shunning the 27.5 std... Like others say, ride what you like and ride how you want, but don't criticize a wheel size or component size because you don't use it. To each his own...
    00 Spec Rockhopper, 02 Giant NRS, 05 Giant VT, 08 Spec StumpJumper, 11 Giant Reign, 14 Giant Trance 27.5, 15 Pivot Mach 6

  55. #455
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    Here is 155mm of rear travel Specialized Enduro 29er which makes your preconceptions moot and blows your 27,5" kiddy wheel out of the field.

    Specialized Enduro 29er, Official Weight, Tech Breakdown, and First Ride Review - Bike Rumor

    and with interview also about 27,5-650b. He says clearly that one does not get the full benefit of rollover, stability etc.
    Specialized Enduro 29er Video

    and here
    Opinion: 26 vs 27.5 vs 29-inch Wheels - Pinkbike

    [b]“It's here I take issue with 27.5-inch wheels. The traditional logic states that they roll-over things better than a 26-inch bike, but handle more nimbly than a 29-inch bike. However, if you flip that logic on its head, they don't roll-through as well as a 29er and don't handle as well as a 26-inch wheeled bike.”
    And then
    ”If you start looking at the new generation of fast-handling 29-inch bikes coming through, like the Specialized Stumpjumper 29er [Enduro 29er as well], the Santa Cruz Tallboy or the Orange Five 29, the inevitable question for me is "What's the point of 27.5?" The sacrifices for running a bigger wheel size are becoming fewer, so why lose that extra roll-over? The in-between size starts to look like an unnecessary compromise.”

    Then great example of the unnecessariness of 27,5”- the test of IBIS Ripley

    Ibis Ripley: First Impressions – Sea Otter 2013 | Mountain Bike Review

    ” Out on the trails around Sea Otter I was amazed how fast the bike felt, and it just seemed to accelerate through most everything, including the dreaded stutter bumps. On occasion, I could feel the bigger wheels, especially when you got them up to speed or rolling over things, but it really felt like a 650B on steroids. The Ripley darted in and out of the trail, and it was easy to toss anywhere, and worked well in corners, berms, climbs and most descents. The suspension absorbed things nicely, without diving into the terrain, offering good composure and stability, though as set up, it felt more x-country then All Mountain. There was one uber steep climb that it did fantastic on, where the bike stuck like glue, and I could pedal up without having to apply much power, something most 29er’s would feel sluggish on.

    Again Enduro29
    2014 Specialized S-Works Enduro 29 SE - First Look and First Ride - Pinkbike

    ” I was wrong about this bike. It was nothing like I feared it would be and, no matter how much I look at the numbers, I still don't really understand how Specialized have managed it. This bike, without question, pushes the boundaries of what is possible with a 29-inch wheeled bike. It also throws light back onto the question of whether or not we need 650B bikes when 29ers can handle like this. This bike blew away any preconceptions of what I thought a 29er could or should be, and for that reason alone I love it. Would I trade my 26-inch Enduro for the newer, bigger-wheeled version? Probably not, as personally I still prefer the immediacy of the smaller wheels, but it's a far closer call than I would have ever imagined it could be. -Matt Wragg”

    This special front Sram derailleur is not patented as far as I know. Why not a 29er with a negative riser bars= dropper bars for shorter riders?
    Sea Otter 2013: Part 3



    And





    Negative Riser Bars, Dropped Stem from Syntace, Plus X12 Quick Tool Axle Release - Bike Rumor

    Getting the handlebar in place is no longer a problem.

    To top it off you cannot assume that there is a huge advantage of 27,5 over 29er in AM because the difference is no longer 63mm (in 26vs29 case) but smaller 38mm (27,5 vs 29 case), thus AM 29ers would not be as far off as it would be if we compared 29er vs 26er. You get my point, don't you?
    This all shows us how much better and cheaper the idea of introducing 29er specific parts would have been than stupid morphing 26”559mm rim into 27,5”584mm one, which constitutes merely 25mm.

    The worst of both worlds”
    “they don't roll-through as well as a 29er and don't handle as well as a 26-inch wheeled bike.”
    Amen.

    Quote Originally Posted by guppie View Post
    It's interesting how the die-hard 29ers are shunning the 27.5 std... Like others say, ride what you like and ride how you want, but don't criticize a wheel size or component size because you don't use it. To each his own...

  56. #456
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    anyone who calls "kiddie wheels" is a non riding moron.
    WTB: Bomber Z2 1 1/8 steerer, in good to excellent shape OR bomber rebuild kit.

  57. #457
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    Quote Originally Posted by colker1 View Post
    anyone who calls "kiddie wheels" is a non riding moron.
    LOL. DC is at it again.

    And yes, we do know that he does not actually ride, and yes, we do know that he is an imbecile. I guess he is kept around for a trainwreck entertainment factor.

  58. #458
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    I get a chuckle from seeing his rants, *almost* like an old friend. He must be extra excited by the 650b tidal wave starting to roll in!

  59. #459
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    Op got me stoked for a 650-b Ibis! If the 29r rides so well the B will rule!

  60. #460
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidcopperfield View Post
    That is either a woman with a very masculine upper body or a dude wearing some seriously gay pants.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  61. #461
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    I'm building a 650b franken-bike for 1 main reason...and I think the best reason.
    ...Cause I don't have one.
    I read...and read...and read...
    Now it's time to slap some wheels on a 26er frame and chek it out.
    Did it on the cheep though...
    roccowt.
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  62. #462
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    OP I 10000000000000000000% agree on not filling our landfills with more crap, but we are a throw away society and are constantly making items/products that be filling our landfills shortly there after purchase. On a positive note the only things that differ on a 650b bike are the frame and the rims, relatively speaking. Those two items in theory can be recycled by a earth conscious individual and therefore are not destined to add to our trash. You could make the same argument about carbon fiber frames in that they have a shorter life expectancy and cannot be recycled. Of course Ti bikes are considered lifetime frames
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  63. #463
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    Hey Copperfield!, can you make a Small Enduro 29er appear out of thin air? Then STFU.

  64. #464
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddle Up View Post
    Hey Copperfield!, can you make a Small Enduro 29er appear out of thin air? Then STFU.
    Hey now, let's not go muddying up this argument with facts!
    "In the past few years there has been building up within me an obsession that the only way to piece of mind is to go somewhere in the desert, far away from things, and just sit down." - Ernie Pyle

  65. #465
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    Why 650b is an ill conceived idea

    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    I was wondering the same thing. It's Pat, on a 29er.
    I was wondering whether the inverted bar was evidence that long travel 29'ers are an ill conceived idea


    Posted via iPhone
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  66. #466
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    I was wondering whether the inverted bar was evidence that long travel 29'ers are an ill conceived idea


    Posted via iPhone
    Road bikes are ill conceived idea then with grips lower than the upper thread set bearing.
    Why should 29ers take after 26ers? Flip this logic on its head, if you need a riser bar then you are far too tall for this wheel size. You are too tall for 27,5/650b crap. :P

    Anyway
    I love these daft and naive 27,5 " freaks, who let the industry put a gimmick down their throat- just a 25mm bigger wheel than a 26er. Better than a 26er? Yeah, but don't tell me that one can make an excellent 27,5 and cannot replicate this in a 29er a realm- the difference between 27,5 and 29 is 38mm. If this is too much for you all to brigde so tell me where the boundary lies?

    Is it possible to produce a nimble 595mm rimmed AM bike with 160mm travel just as good as a 584mm? If yes can we pitch it up a little, shall we?
    How about AM ride with 600mm rim and then 611mm and finally 622mm with 29er specific parts?

    Oh by the way 150mm rear travel 29 in 14" frame.

    Why 650b is an ill conceived idea-6252082376_984743411b_z.jpg

    Stanover About 660mm, Top Tube 560mm. It is not even with 51mm, which becomes the norm in the 29er realm
    Now imagine Sram derailleur for specialized and even more offset like 55mm and 29er specific gears like 20-30-40 and cassettes like 13-39.

  67. #467
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    HAHAHA! Finally!

    I swear, the first thing I thought when I saw the Enduro 29 was "Oh Sh!t. This is all the validation DC needs to climb back out of his troll cave and start slinging crap again."

  68. #468
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    Quote Originally Posted by doismellbacon View Post
    I swear, the first thing I thought when I saw the Enduro 29 was "Oh Sh!t. This is all the validation DC needs to climb back out of his troll cave and start slinging crap again."
    Imagine the level of hysteria if they have actually managed to make a size small - for the other half of the population. To be honest, he is not funny, for a long time now, as novelty of an imbecile zealot wears off.

  69. #469
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    Why 650b is an ill conceived idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Davidcopperfield View Post
    Road bikes are ill conceived idea then with grips lower than the upper thread set bearing.
    Really? You are comparing road bike set up and geo to mtb? Your cluelessness knows no bounds. Now it is clear that not only do you not ride mtb you do not ride road.

    P.S. I'm waiting for the arrival of my recently ordered TBc. So kiss this, Troll.

    And remember, European bro, before you post opinions,

    Ride often, ride hard, ride all wheel sizes, ride full rigid, ride HT, ride 4" FS, ride 5" FS, ride SS, ride 1X, ride 2X.

    I do all of the above. Not trying to blow my horn. Just to establish some cred actually doing it, maybe not very skillfully, certainly not impressively, but competently, and f'ing doing it - a lot.

    Because I'm retired, I can. And I get many different perspectives on 4 mtb's and one road bike.






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  70. #470
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    Really? You are comparing road bike set up and geo to mtb? Your cluelessness knows no bounds.
    Now concentrate pensioner. I am really getting an impression that you are not intelligent or baffled at least. I do blame the american education for that. I guess most US people cannot effectively and meticulously gauge, assess a product and understand its physics, mechanics to the level the average eastern european can. It has to do with the wealth- that one does not produce- make anything at home due to the availability of everything in stores. Just like wolves have bigger brains than regular home dog. That's why mob can be steered, beguiled and deluded. In the USA people belive that 584mm rim can cure a cancer and AIDS.
    And this paid Nino the Doll

    Back to the topic:
    I never compared road bike set up to that of a MTB 29er.
    I only pointed out that one does not have to have the handlebar grips higher than the thread set top cap using the example to the handlebar grips being lower than the thread set cap on the road bike. This and only this.
    I see no technical counterindication against such a set up on a LT 29er for shorter riders as long as your chest does not hit the top cap. One would have to be 4'11" on a 180mm 29er to be able to do that.
    I believe that such dropper bars and negative stems pave the trails for S frames like hypothetical Enduro 29 and make the grips low enough.
    Dropperbars- negative riser bars work just as well as the regular mtb riser bars on 26ers. They are a must on kiddy wheels becuase the poeple riding them are far too tall for those wheels.

    Riser bars (along other 26 specific bike apparel like drive train) were not designed with a 700C wheel in mind and short up to average rider. Such parts blight the yet to be tapped potential in 700C wheel in mtb. 29ers cannot excel with parts designed with 26" wheel in mind.

    Before calling me a troll prove me worng if I really am.

  71. #471
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidcopperfield View Post


    In the USA people belive that 584mm rim can cure a cancer and AIDS.


    They are a must on kiddy wheels becuase the poeple riding them are far too tall for those wheels.



    Before calling me a troll prove me worng if I really am.


    You proved it with those two statements, banhammer please.

  72. #472
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty $anchez View Post
    You proved it with those two statements, banhammer please.
    Yes please, and how about moving this thread to the dustbin as well!
    UGG boots will germinate Paris Hilton like intellect in your soles!

  73. #473
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    Yes, kill this thread already. This discussion is no longer relevant. 650b/27.5 is now established and here to stay. Ride what you like and get over it.

  74. #474
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    Why 650b is an ill conceived idea

    Quote Originally Posted by michael9218 View Post
    Yes, kill this thread already. This discussion is no longer relevant. 650b/27.5 is now established and here to stay. Ride what you like and get over it.
    In DC's case, ride what you like and get over YOURSELF

    Why 650b is an ill conceived idea-imageuploadedbytapatalk1367416773.700919.jpg


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  75. #475
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    Why 650b is an ill conceived idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Davidcopperfield View Post

    I never compared road bike set up to that of a MTB 29er.
    I only pointed out that one does not have to have the handlebar grips higher than the thread set top cap using the example to the handlebar grips being lower than the thread set cap on the road bike. This and only this.
    A road bike has drop bars mainly in order for the rider to achieve an aerodynamic position as speed increases. Sprinters and some climbers use the drops for leverage when putting maximum force against the pedals. Unlike upside down handlebars on a 29'er with huge long travel forks, drops have zero to do with fitting short stature people to a bike. Also, one of the valid criticisms of 29'ers is difficulty lofting the front wheel as compared to 26" and 27.5". Seem like upside down bars would exacerbate this problem.

    Before calling me a troll prove me worng if I really am.
    Priceless. The onus is not on readers in a forum. The troll proves himself by posting crap with the intention of inciting vitriolic argumentative responses. Like a cool aid swigging 29'er zealot coming to the 650b forum and continually dissing the entire concept of the bike. Like a haughty piece of Eurotrash coming to an Internet forum dominated by US Americans and dumping on the country. No better definition or example of troll.

    Finally, Eurobro, I own and ride a 29'er along with two 650b's and a26". You do NOT own, and have never even ridden, a 650b. Accordingly, I have actual and extensive empirical experience in the matters being discussed. You, OTOH, are purely talking out of your ass.

    Clear? OR DO YOU NEED ALL CAPS??



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  76. #476
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    A road bike has drop bars mainly in order for the rider to achieve an aerodynamic position as speed increases. Sprinters and some climbers use the drops for leverage when putting maximum force against the pedals. Unlike upside down handlebars on a 29'er with huge long travel forks, drops have zero to do with fitting short stature people to a bike. Also, one of the valid criticisms of 29'ers is difficulty lofting the front wheel as compared to 26" and 27.5". Seem like upside down bars would exacerbate this problem.



    Priceless. The onus is not on readers in a forum. The troll proves himself by posting crap with the intention of inciting vitriolic argumentative responses. Like a cool aid swigging 29'er zealot coming to the 650b forum and continually dissing the entire concept of the bike. Like a haughty piece of Eurotrash coming to an Internet forum dominated by US Americans and dumping on the country. No better definition or example of troll.

    Finally, Eurobro, I own and ride a 29'er along with two 650b's and a26". You do NOT own, and have never even ridden, a 650b. Accordingly, I have actual and extensive empirical experience in the matters being discussed. You, OTOH, are purely talking out of your ass.

    Clear? OR DO YOU NEED ALL CAPS??



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  77. #477
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    I see that there is a 29er forum, which I imagine is well suited to discussing 29er setup.

  78. #478
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    +1 vote to kill this thread. clearly it suits no purpose but to incite riot and waste cyber space in spite of the endless supply of said space.

  79. #479
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    Unlike upside down handlebars on a 29'er with huge long travel forks, drops have zero to do with fitting short stature people to a bike.
    I guess short persons do not want handlebars too high and then dropper bar- negative riser work. Say a 5'3" on a 160mm 29er fork.

    Also, one of the valid criticisms of 29'ers is difficulty lofting the front wheel as compared to 26" and 27.5". Seem like upside down bars would exacerbate this problem.
    27,5" is 584mm rim and 29er is 622mm the difference is just 38mm not like 26vs 29 - 63mm, thus saying that lofting a 27,5" is much easier than a 29er is an exaggeration. There isn't as nuch chasm between 27,5 and 29" like between 26 and 29. Don't forget it in your rant.
    And how exactly having a negative riser bars impedes lofting a wheel compared to a standard riser bars?
    The rider body does not have any physical contact with the tyres.

    Priceless. The onus is not on readers in a forum. The troll proves himself by posting crap with the intention of inciting vitriolic argumentative responses. Like a cool aid swigging 29'er zealot coming to the 650b forum and continually dissing the entire concept of the bike.
    Sorry you asked for it preaching everyone that 584mm 650b is a 29er and a 26er- the best of both worlds.
    Just I detest the marketing wonks lying on us and pushing the 27,5" down our throats instead of investing those money into 29er specific parts like spoke counts, tyre treads, derailleurs, hub flange width etc, which would assuage all those negatives deriving from 26er parts on 29ers.

    You do NOT own, and have never even ridden, a 650b. Accordingly, I have actual and extensive empirical experience in the matters being discussed. You, OTOH, are purely talking out of your ass.
    I have ridden a 650b randonne from the 80s. Just a smaller wheel. Why giving up on stability, traction, centre of gravity and going backwards? I came to 29ers for those reasons.

    I guess the bike market needs another artificially fueled novelty to scrape money, but dwarfing the wheel is counter productive outside of FR and BMX stunts.
    All offroad vehicles have the biggest wheels possible out there. They do not use family car tyres to cross Africa or south America.

  80. #480
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    Why 650b is an ill conceived idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Davidcopperfield View Post
    I came to 29ers for those reasons.
    ...

    All offroad vehicles have the biggest wheels possible out there.
    You do not actually ride anything, and you are just as clueless about off-road vehicles.
    Last edited by Axe; 05-09-2013 at 09:44 PM.

  81. #481
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidcopperfield View Post
    All offroad vehicles have the biggest wheels possible out there
    No, they don't.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  82. #482
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidcopperfield View Post
    I guess short persons do not want handlebars too high and then dropper bar- negative riser work. Say a 5'3" on a 160mm 29er fork.


    27,5" is 584mm rim and 29er is 622mm the difference is just 38mm not like 26vs 29 - 63mm, thus saying that lofting a 27,5" is much easier than a 29er is an exaggeration. There isn't as nuch chasm between 27,5 and 29" like between 26 and 29. Don't forget it in your rant.
    And how exactly having a negative riser bars impedes lofting a wheel compared to a standard riser bars?
    The rider body does not have any physical contact with the tyres.

    Sorry you asked for it preaching everyone that 584mm 650b is a 29er and a 26er- the best of both worlds.
    Just I detest the marketing wonks lying on us and pushing the 27,5" down our throats instead of investing those money into 29er specific parts like spoke counts, tyre treads, derailleurs, hub flange width etc, which would assuage all those negatives deriving from 26er parts on 29ers.


    I have ridden a 650b randonne from the 80s. Just a smaller wheel. Why giving up on stability, traction, centre of gravity and going backwards? I came to 29ers for those reasons.

    I guess the bike market needs another artificially fueled novelty to scrape money, but dwarfing the wheel is counter productive outside of FR and BMX stunts.
    All offroad vehicles have the biggest wheels possible out there. They do not use family car tyres to cross Africa or south America.
    dude you have been warned numerous times on this. Keep your shit to yourself, your experience is dubious at best and bullshit at worst. I am now ejecting you again from this forum but this time it is for good.

    and I will leave this here to show how bullshit your thesis is:

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/300tdorg/3123178996/" title="The Saharagelber in Wadi Rum, Jordan by 300td.org, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3241/3123178996_f57062b2f1_b.jpg" width="1024" height="685" alt="The Saharagelber in Wadi Rum, Jordan"></a>

    this is a w123 mercedes that has pretty much traveled from the Med to the Cape. Stock sized tires. It isn't the size that matters it is what you chose to do with it that counts.
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  83. #483
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    he's done in here. If you want this closed ask Rensho to do it. I am not familiar enough to know if it belongs or not.
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  84. #484
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    HAHAH, juansevo must have a seriously good laugh that this thread of his from 2008 is still going.....whoops why did i just post and keep the thread going??

  85. #485
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    Why 650b is an ill conceived idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Davidcopperfield View Post
    I guess short persons do not want handlebars too high and then dropper bar- negative riser work. Say a 5'3" on a 160mm 29er fork.


    27,5" is 584mm rim and 29er is 622mm the difference is just 38mm not like 26vs 29 - 63mm, thus saying that lofting a 27,5" is much easier than a 29er is an exaggeration. There isn't as nuch chasm between 27,5 and 29" like between 26 and 29. Don't forget it in your rant.
    And how exactly having a negative riser bars impedes lofting a wheel compared to a standard riser bars?
    The rider body does not have any physical contact with the tyres.

    Sorry you asked for it preaching everyone that 584mm 650b is a 29er and a 26er- the best of both worlds.
    Just I detest the marketing wonks lying on us and pushing the 27,5" down our throats instead of investing those money into 29er specific parts like spoke counts, tyre treads, derailleurs, hub flange width etc, which would assuage all those negatives deriving from 26er parts on 29ers.


    I have ridden a 650b randonne from the 80s. Just a smaller wheel. Why giving up on stability, traction, centre of gravity and going backwards? I came to 29ers for those reasons.
    For a change of pace?

    BEHOLD, Troll, known 650b promoter, dwt, has a 29'er. Note flat bar, which IS a tad high. Note bash guard in place of 42T on a triple crank. Who besides racers needs a big ring on a 29'er? On these wagon wheels I run bash- 32-24 up front and 11-36 in back. After all, I'm a pensioner and need lower gearing.

    Why 650b is an ill conceived idea-imageuploadedbytapatalk1368215823.416132.jpg

    Biggest drawback of 29'er:

    Why 650b is an ill conceived idea-imageuploadedbytapatalk1368215917.798590.jpg

    Bad iPhone pic, but 27 lbs 11 oz is on the heavy side for XC travel. My 650b @ 5" of travel w/ dropper post and alloy frame is only 2 lbs heavier. When the 4"
    Carbon 650b's come out, they should be south of 25 lbs. and the money bikes could go sub 20.




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  86. #486
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    Buh-bye 'David Copperfield'. Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

    Oh, and in summation... 650B – pretty freakin' nice.

  87. #487
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    Bring back David Copperfield please. I'm quite amused by all this banter.

  88. #488
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    In 20 years, the 650 will be proven time and time again...and this thread will still be active...
    Remember when we were kids and our Mom's said we could not play in the mud? I'm making up for it now!!

  89. #489
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    This thread is now x-tra funny, considering recent events.

    Poor Juan and David. They drank the haterade all for naught.

    .

  90. #490
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    Why 650b is an ill conceived idea

    Quote Originally Posted by SystemShock View Post
    This thread is now x-tra funny, considering recent events.

    Poor Juan and David. They drank the haterade all for naught.

    .
    Don't invest money with idiots of this magnitude.
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  91. #491
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    Don't invest money with idiots of this magnitude.
    Amen.

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