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  1. #1
    fc
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    Timeline of 650b history

    Can someone timeline the significant events in 650b history?


    when the first rim, tire was born, fork, production bike,
    fox/rockshox announcement, world cup win... the who's and the what's.

    fc

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    Can someone timeline the significant events in 650b history?


    when the first rim, tire was born, fork, production bike,
    fox/rockshox announcement, world cup win... the who's and the what's.

    fc
    I can offer a little info on the this front.

    I unveiled the first 650b (27.5") mountain bike in February 2007 at the NAHBS show in San Jose. The frame was built for me by Kent Eriksen, the fork was a custom made White Bros. Magic and the wheels were by Cane Creek (Velocity rims). I had hand cut and re-stiched a pair of WTB 29er tires to fit the 650b wheels.


    You can see a test of that bike in Dirt Rag: Pacenti 650B | Dirt Rag Magazine

    The first 650b (27.5") MTB tire available was the Pacenti Neo-Moto 2.3", produced in mid 2007. I followed it up shortly thereafter with the Quasi-Moto 2.0" and the Neo-Moto 2.1" in 2008. Rims had been widely available on the road / touring side for a long time at that point. But Velocity and Stan's jumped in early with MTB specific rims in late 2008 / early 2009.

    Cheers,
    Kirk Pacenti

  3. #3
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    The guy who should probably pick up the story from here is cracked headtube, who hosts this blog, and is another early to the party supporter of 650b:

    http://www.650bpalace.com/

    I could be a little off, but I believe the first production Jamis 650b and White Bros fork was 2008. KHS bike and X-Fusion forks 2010. In this period, WTB, Alex, and Am Classic came out with rims; Kenda and Schwalbe tires.

    All the early in companies deserve consumer support for their willingness to stick their necks out. They deserve a pay day if this gamble pays off I'm happy with my 2010 Jamis B2 frame, WB Fluid forks, and will ride them to dust.

    If the likes of Spec and Santa Cruz ever eat their words and produce 650b bikes, while I'm sure they will be cutting edge, they won't see my money. Screw them.
    Last edited by dwt; 05-18-2012 at 10:40 AM.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    The guy who should probably pick up the story from here is cracked headtube, who hosts this blog, and is another early to the party supporter of 650b:

    http://www.650bpalace.com

    I could be a little off, but I believe the first production Jamis 650b and White Bros fork was 2008. KHS bike and X-Fusion forks 2010. In this period, WTB, Alex, and Am Classic came out with rims; Kenda and Schwalbe tires.

    All the early in companies deserve consumer support for their willingness to stick their necks out. They deserve a pay day if this gamble pays off I'm happy with my 2010 Jamis B2 frame, WB Fluid forks, and will ride them to dust.

    If the likes of Spec and Santa Cruz ever eat their words and produce 650b bikes, while I'm sure they will be cutting edge, they won't see my money. Screw them.
    Haro may have been first before even Jamis - not sure. If not before Jamis - right around the same time as Jamis - I think slightly ahead though. I remember riding a demo Beasley at Interbike East in Providence in 2008 thanks to the help of Jill Hamilton who was working at Haro at the time.

    Haro had the two Beasley Models and then briefly after those two hardtails the Sonix 650b FS bike. But then Haro took a hard turn away from higher performing mountain bikes and went back to more of a BMX, urban bike, and Masi (road) focus.

    So we shouldn't forget about Haro in this history timeline.

  5. #5
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    Another guy who has been behind 650b pretty early on was Davis Carver of Carver Bikes and Cool Bike Parts and Accessories from the Coast of Maine since 1976 acclaim.

    Davis was another guy with 650b bikes on display at the Interbike East outdoor demo days in Providence, RI in 2008. I rode one of his Carver 96ers that was set up as a full 650b bike with a Xfusion Velvet fork up front. One helluva fun ride that thing was. I actually ended up buying the frame that was on that demo bike and riding it for a good while having a total blast on it while I owned it.

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    There's 650b history as in at what point did guys like Kirk P. begin to push hard to bring 650b to our attention.

    But then there is another POV: a guy named Geoff Apps was experimenting with 650B and 700c Finnish snow tires 30 years ago; Gary Fisher and Charlie Kelly suposedly heard about it and tried to get some rims and tires to experiment with, but it turned out that they couldn't get a secure enough supply and couldn't interest any tire makers in it until they could guarantee higher sales numbers.

    IMO, Kirk is a hero for working to make it real, but like the chicken and egg...what was first?

  7. #7
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    According to another member (Fillet-Brazed), Tom Ritchey produced a handful of frames for the 650b wheel size back in the late 70's or very early 80's specifically to use the Hakka 650b tires, but supply of tires dried up when the Russian army sucked up the entire production run, and interest in the wheel size fell off as a result. There is an old magazine article that references this

    https://www.oldmountainbikes.com/cat...icycling11.JPG
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    I think I remember something here, too, about that, but I don't have good luck searching. I get mad if I don't find what I want in 15 seconds!

    I have a Raleigh "mountain tour" that has 26x1-1/2 tires on it; the old American way of sizing 650b. I don't know what it had originally, but it came to me with some french-made randonneur-tread tires on. 15 seconds of research originally suggested that the bike was made about 1983 and DID come with this size standard.

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    Don't forget the GT Tachyon - 1989'ish?
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  10. #10
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    That wasn't exactly 650b, but pretty close.
    Quote Originally Posted by banks
    That is one big f'n dude!
    Yes I am!

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    I thought 650b dates back another 50 -70 years?

  12. #12
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    Look in this very 650B forum back to pages 57-62 and you will see the beginnings....in 2007 Shiggy scores first conversion of a 26er, (an A Salsa 'A-La-Carte' with the Velocity blunts and Neo-motos) Ahrens does a hardtail, then Carver does the Bumblebee, then along comes Haro Beasly and then Jamis. The FS 26er conversions start to fly from there and go all ver the map. The best quote from 2007 is 'Davidcopperfield' stating (Quote):"650b- 584mm might be a steady replacement for 559mm-26". He was a prohpet before he became the 650B troll.

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    thats pretty interesting

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    Shouldn't there be a mention of Grant Petersen here somewhere?
    The Fatty Rumpkin? The Saluki?


    Sure, the 650b is actually an old size, from European touring bikes and randonneurs, but after Tom R. left the 650b behind, yet before Kirk P. turned it into a 29'er alternative, Grant's role should be noted, how he helped along the 650b to get to where it was able to be turned into what it's doing today, right? No, he didn't design any 2"+ knobby tires, but, he helped make it possible for it to even happen...

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by LNBright View Post
    Shouldn't there be a mention of Grant Petersen here somewhere?
    The Fatty Rumpkin? The Saluki?


    Sure, the 650b is actually an old size, from European touring bikes and randonneurs, but after Tom R. left the 650b behind, yet before Kirk P. turned it into a 29'er alternative, Grant's role should be noted, how he helped along the 650b to get to where it was able to be turned into what it's doing today, right? No, he didn't design any 2"+ knobby tires, but, he helped make it possible for it to even happen...

    Yes, Grant does deserve much of the credit for popularizing 650b in the US. And I have said, many times before, that it was Grant who introduced me to the 650b wheel size in 2004. (2nd paragraph)

    As others here have mentioned, 650b bikes have been produced in some form or another (primarily touring / randonneuring bikes) for nearly a century, including a few MTB's in the late 70's - early 80's. However, unless I misunderstood the intent /context of Francois' initial post, I think this thread concerns what's going on today with 650b wheels in the mountain bike world. None of which has anything to do with bikes made before the one I debuted at NAHBS in February of 2007.

    That TR, CK or JB may have made a few 650b wheeled bikes in 79-81 is a historical fact (a fact I discovered only after the 2007 NAHBS show). But the idea that the few bikes they made 30+ years ago [or even the few new touring bikes available today] has had any influence on Nino's WC wins or the products we saw displayed at Sea Otter last month from likes of Fox and Intense, stretches credulity to the breaking point. (imo, ymmv, etc, etc, etc)


    Cheers,
    KP
    Last edited by Kirk Pacenti; 05-23-2012 at 05:17 AM.

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    Good point, Kirk; I'd not read Francois's original note from a narrow perspective of just the modern MTB, I was seeing it as a more open question on 650b's history, and so I wanted to make sure he knew about the continuum from the old tourers up to when you kicked off the MTB 650b. I know *you* know all about Grant; I was just wanting to make sure that Francois was aware of his involvement in 650b, too. [And, maybe you're right, that may be more history than Francois was wanting, only the post-you stuff... but just in case, I wanted to make sure he had the info if he wanted to include that much of the history to lead up to you and the Neo.]

    And I wholly concur, bikes like the Saluki, the Kogswell, etc., those aren't 'related' to suspension forks or competition wins or new knobby tires, I wasn't trying to imply that at all. There is a distinct difference between what GP and Riv do from what most of the people on this board are thinking of when they think of a mountain bike. My Bombadil is, as Grant would say, to actually quote him: "It's a MOUNTAIN bike, and not a frilly-techy one for gram counters who race in their minds but not in the world. It's not for racing, period. It is a modern mountain bike in the spirit of a 1983 model. Maybe '84."

    Anyway, Francois, there's a nugget of history for ya, to include as you see fit...

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    When did Rawland introduce the cSogn and dSogn frame-sets? Not sure if they really made a big impact on mtb-ing - but they were one of the first affordable 650b "all-rounder" type bikes with the ability to handle road, gravel and singletrack should an owner want to "adventure" a bit.

  18. #18
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    Well, you know there are some historic points in the timeline of 650B that are pre-Pacenti, because he never claimed to have invented the size. However, IMO there is no 650B as we know it without Kirk. He generated the interest and awareness that allowed the size to truly become a reality for something other than a passing fad. Even if this size somehow disappears in the future, the kind of participation by some significant component and frame manufacturers would not have occurred without Kirk. As far as I'm concerned, he's ground zero for this phenomenon. Without his tire and first production rim, I doubt any interest would have been generated otherwise.

    After that point, some shops and individuals carried the torch upon discovering how well Kirk's tire and this wheel size actually performed in real world use. Many of us realized this wasn't just a flash-in-the-pan as DC often tries to claim. We began sticking this new wheel in everything we could get out hands on to see how it worked. Cracked Headtube and MMcG spread the word about as much as any individuals on this forum and elsewhere. The shop I work at may have been the first to stick a set in a Specialized carbon Epic. One of our mechanics got on the podium in a national XC race in Vermont in the "old guys" class riding 650B as soon as Stan's 355 rim became available. I was possibly one of the first guys to stick them in some Big Hit bikes likes the Nomad and Bullit and post stories about riding them in Moab. Some of us grabbed up all the CR18 oddball rim sizes in this venue that we could find, and some of us are still running them...even if they aren't true 650B. Many of us have experimented with the size and discovered the real benefit of this wheel and posted our results long ago. The only reason I don't post as much on the issue anymore is a feeling that 650B is a real, functional, and beneficial option that I'm almost tired of talking about. For me there's nothing "religious" or magical about it. It works for a real and physics based reason.

    Still, when you consider the timeline and history issue of 650B use in the real world, it pretty much begins with Kirk Pacenti as far as I'm concerned. And I'm glad it happened.

  19. #19
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    A few

    The Velocity 650b Blunt rim was the first mountain specific 650b rim available in late 2007. It was already available retail when I ordered my first in November or December 2007. Kirk had commissioned with Velocity to produce this rim for his original 650b mountain tire, the 2.3 Neo-moto.

    Sun-Ringle's 650b Equalizer rim was second, available retail by summer of 2008.

    Stan's 650b ZTR rim was the third rim that I remember, and came another 6 months to a year after the Sun Equalizer.

    The next significant historic milestone for my personal interests in leading edge suspension for tail bikes, was when Ibis sanctioned 650b wheel use for the Mojo HD140 in January 2012, publicly announced deep in a Bicycling/Mountain Bike magazine blog.... See page 2... Fox, RockShox, DT-Swiss, Schwalbe and Others Develop 650b gear | The Straight Dirt | MountainBike.com

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby View Post
    The Velocity 650b Blunt rim was the first mountain specific 650b rim available in late 2007. It was already available retail when I ordered my first in November or December 2007. Kirk had commissioned with Velocity to produce this rim for his original 650b mountain tire, the 2.3 Neo-moto.

    Sun-Ringle's 650b Equalizer rim was second, available retail by summer of 2008.

    Stan's 650b ZTR rim was the third rim that I remember, and came another 6 months to a year after the Sun Equalizer.

    The next significant historic milestone for my personal interests in leading edge suspension for tail bikes, was when Ibis sanctioned 650b wheel use for the Mojo HD140 in January 2012, publicly announced deep in a Bicycling/Mountain Bike magazine blog.... See page 2... Fox, RockShox, DT-Swiss, Schwalbe and Others Develop 650b gear | The Straight Dirt | MountainBike.com
    When did the Alex rim debut? was it after the Stan's rim? Or was it sandwiched between the Equalizer and Stan's rim?

    And although super duper rare - don't forget the Vicious Cycles Children of the Revolution rim.

    And what about American Classic 650b wheelsets - when did they hit the scene?

  21. #21
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    The first XC national championship win on 650b wheels was at Mt. Snow in 2008 in the mens Expert 30-35 class on this bike;

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    I always thought that one of the features of the moots mounts (on early moots bikes) was to accommodate larger diameter wheels for touring applications... that was in the mid-late 80s

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    650b has been the size of choice for various groups of off-road cyclists around the world.

    The British Rough-Stuff Fellowship founded in 1955 commonly fitted 650b wheels to frames designed for larger wheels in order to improve the frame/wheel clearances. Some specialist 650b Rough-Stuff bikes were manufactured.

    Name:  1979 Jack Taylor Roughstuff.jpg
Views: 2782
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    The French VCCP used custom built 650b wheeled bikes between 1951-56
    http://www.completesite.com/mbhof/pa...99&memberid=90

    Geoff Apps' company, Cleland Cycles, made 650b Cross Country Cycles between 1979 and 1984
    Other English companies making 650b off-road bicycles include: Jack Taylor Cycles, English Cycles, and Highpath Engineering.
    Restorations | Cleland Cycles

    This letter links Geoff Apps' use of Nokia Hakkapilliita 650b tires to the early 1980's NorCal 650b frame builders.
    Timeline of 650b history-letterfromckandgf001c.jpg

    I would like to thank Kirk and the others involved, for revitalizing the size so that I and others in Britain can keep our old 650b bikes rolling along:

  24. #24
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    No question, Kirk Pacenti is the "father" of 650b trail bike wheels

    Quote Originally Posted by TNC View Post
    Still, when you consider the timeline and history issue of 650B use in the real world, it pretty much begins with Kirk Pacenti as far as I'm concerned. And I'm glad it happened.
    Since converting to Kirk Pacenti's 650b wheels in 2007, I had never heard about this wheel size, and later learned 650b was used previously for road touring bikes decades ago.

    Never has anyone before Kirk Pacenti produced an off-road specific 650b tire for sale. And a great tire, first try!

    And never before was there such rapid growth in 650b. Much faster growth than 29'ers, and the whole trail bike category of bicycles grew even slower than 29'ers. Sure the time is ripe, having the internet now, specifically the forums of MTBR.

    Without Kirk Pacenti, 650b would still be long forgotten history.

    Thank you Kirk!

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    Accounts from 650B Palace.

    For all intensive purposes I checked into the archives at http://www.650bpalace.com and wrangled together this jazz. (all dates are approximate).

    2007
    February: Pacenti breaks into the NAHBS scene with his custom rimmed Titanium 650B hardtail. The hoops were produced by Cane Creek in a 28h drilling. A custom White Bros fork had been commissioned by Pacenti Cycle Design in the way of the Magic 100 line. The tires are WTB 29" rubber that have been spliced to match the 584 rim. Shortly there after Dirt Rag runs a small blurb regarding this bike and wheel size for MTBs. During this time Pacenti had already begun development of the 2.3" Baby Bear Tire, later to be renamed the Neo-Moto.
    <br>
    May: Velocity begins shipping their new disc specific rim, the BLUNT in 26", 650B, and 29" diameters. A viable 650B MTB rim is now available. Before the Blunt, Velocity produced the Synergy and Aerohead in the 650B diameter but both lack the width to withstand the rigors of serious off road use.
    American Classic begins development of 650B wheelset and experiments using Velocity's Blunt.
    Pacenti ships his Titanium hardtail to Dirt Rag for a true 650B bike review. Companies like Haro and Trek and Turner begin knocking on Pacenti's door.
    Rawland Cycles website goes live with 2 models to preorder. Olaf and Sogn
    <br>
    July: Haro begins testing with 650B on their Xeon full suspension bikes.
    <br>
    September: Interbike this years was a step in the right direction and 650B looked like it wasn't gong to be held back. Rawland has a booth showing off their 650B specific frames, co-designed by Kirk Pacenti.
    Vicious Cycles debuts the Mambo Sun in geared and single speed applications. Both bike are fitted with Fox Forx which display ample tire clearance through the arch of lowers.
    Origin 8 shows 650B bike, but a production frame never launches.
    Engin Cycles has raffle for SusanKoman foundation for full custom 650B hardtail. News of the benefit grace the pages of Bicycle Retailer Magazine's website.
    Carver Bikes, famous for their 96er bike offer the same frame to be built with dual 650B wheels, named "Killer Bee"
    White Bros expand the 650B fork line up. Magic 80 &100, Fluid 100 & 130. All available with 20mm hub option.
    Soma Fabrications tease the B-Side
    <br>
    October:
    650B Palace is born.
    Pacenti's production run of 2.3" Neo Moto tires land on US soil and is promptly sold to early testers and R&D departments.
    X-Fusion's Velvet fork is confirmed to fit a 2.3 Pacenti Neo-Moto, 650B Palace exclusive. Fork travel limit is required but X-Fusion approves for 650B use with travel limit.
    Vassago Bicycles teases the Rapscallion full suspension 650B, yet never sees production.
    <br>
    November:
    MTBR's awkward wheel size forum begins to show 650B life with many users adapting their 26" bikes to 650B.
    Hayes company Sun Ringle rolls some Equalizer 27 rims into 650B for testing purposes. This rim eventually goes into production.
    Rivendell releases the Bombadil, a lugged MTB frame with classic flair.
    December:
    Ahrens Bicycles adds a 650B to their aluminum line up. This bike is later tested in Mountain Flyer Magazine
    Haro begins development of 650B line.

    2008:
    January
    Mountain Flyer Magazine publishes a review on the Carver Killer B
    Mountain Bike Action run article featuring 650B.
    February
    NAHBS rolls around again, this year with a plethora of 650B bikes, as well as a purpose built full suspension from Ventana. Yipsan, Coconino, SyCip, Pereira, Southwest, Waterford, Kish, Villin, Vicious all show 650B bikes.
    Kenda plans release of Nevegal 2.35 & 2.1
    Haro's Beasley 650B bikes are confirmed for production.

    March
    Pacenti's 650B QuasiMoto 2.0 tire is sent out for testing, 650B Palace snags a pair.
    Dirt Rag mag shows more interest and a staff writer begins converting a Santa Cruz Heckler- documents process on Dirt Rag blog.

    April
    Stan's No Tubes 650B ZTR 355 rim lands. Its the lightest production 650B rim to date.
    Custom 650B frames are becoming more numerous and some utilizing Ventana's suspension design.
    Alex releases XD-Lite rim.

    July
    Spooky Bikes add the Horror Taxi 650b to their production line.
    US National won aboard 650B.

    September
    American Classic is first to have a production 650B wheelset, available in many options.
    Schwalbe releases the 650B Racing Ralph 2.25

    2009
    IRD releases Fire XC Pro 2.1 tire
    Jamis plans 650B release
    Jeremiah Bishop races 650b/26 bike
    Kenda releases 2.1 & 2.35 Nevegals
    Soma releases B-Side production 650B hardtail as a frame only.
    Haro tests production 650B full suspension.
    Pacenti releases 2.1" Neo Moto
    Vicious Releases COTR rim
    KHS prototypes hardtail
    Velocity releases P35(Pacenti designed) & Dyad 650B

    more to come....

  26. #26
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    That's a good timeline CH thanks for the research putting that together.

    I first heard about the 650B in 2007 and rode the Carver Killer B at Interbike and immediately loved it. Here's a link to my original review.

    The only thing I'd add is the El Bastardo. Ventana started making the El Bastardo in the summer of 2008 I believe. I rode one of the first production units at Ibike that fall. Report here.

    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/2900388994/" title="Ibike 2008 and Moab 015 by kentsaundra, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3021/2900388994_5c18313419_o.jpg" width="900" height="675" alt="Ibike 2008 and Moab 015"></a>

    After those two rides I was pretty excited about the 650B movement but it kinda didn't do anything for the next couple of years but sure seems like it's starting to gain some traction now. Getting excited for this year's I-bike. I have two or three 650B offerings on my list already.
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by IF52 View Post
    when the Russian army sucked up the entire production run
    So here what that is... 650b is returning because communists won?

  28. #28
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    CH,

    That is a good timeline.

    I would just make a couple minor corrections:

    1. The 2.3" Neo-Moto molds were being cut in February of 2007.
    2. The first production run of the 2.3" Neo-Moto landed in the US in July of 2007

    Cheers,
    KP

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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    So here what that is... 650b is returning because communists won?
    Uh, no, arguably if the Soviet army hadn't sucked up the entire production run we could have seen 650b become the standard wheel size instead of 26" back in the early 80s.
    Quote Originally Posted by banks
    That is one big f'n dude!
    Yes I am!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cracked Headtube View Post
    For all intensive purposes I checked into the archives at http://www.650bpalace.com and wrangled together this jazz. (all dates are approximate).
    .

    July
    Spooky Bikes add the Horror Taxi 650b to their production line.
    US National won aboard 650B.


    The first batch of 650b Darksides, made by Chris Herting at 3Dracing, were finished in March '08 were the first 650b-specific frames we made. Bikes and More in Gainesville Florida was the first dealer to have inventory of those, which I think were the first stock aluminum 650b hardtail frames on the market.

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    posted under incorrect account.
    Last edited by flyingfish brian; 05-24-2012 at 11:22 AM. Reason: wrong account

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    Mickey and Kirk, thanks .

    KROB: look at Feb 2008 in my timeline.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by IF52 View Post
    Uh, no, arguably if the Soviet army hadn't sucked up the entire production run we could have seen 650b become the standard wheel size instead of 26" back in the early 80s.
    Yep. 650b - the tire of choice for Red Army invasion. We have all those Occupy movement protests all year, and now 650b products come out. Coincidence?

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cracked Headtube View Post
    For all intensive purposes I checked into the archives at http://www.650bpalace.com and wrangled together this jazz. (all dates are approximate).


    2008:
    NAHBS rolls around again, this year with a plethora of 650B bikes, as well as a purpose built full suspension from Ventana. Yipsan, Coconino, SyCip, Pereira, Southwest, Waterford, Kish, Villin, Vicious all show 650B bikes.
    .


    more to come....
    Yes - I showed the 650B my wife still rides, the blue one with flowers all over it at NAHBS-PDX.
    I must say though that my roomie's 1986(?) Raliegh Elkhorn was the 1st one I saw, in 1988 I think.........
    - Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.
    steve garro el jefe/el solo. coconino cycles www.coconinocycles.com www.coconinocycles.blogspot.com

  35. #35
    Axe
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    A very important event is missing from the timeline.

    At some moment there was a secret cabal meeting, rumored to be held in the village of Zugarramurdi, where industry decided on their next big lie designed to sell more stuff to poor suckers, when the old stuff works just fine. Previous topics of that annual meeting were of adopting indexed shifting, suspension forks, disk brakes, variations of headset and bottom bracket standards, 9 speed and 10 speed drivetrain, and of course the most recent scum of 29" wheelsizes (when poor people had been forced to replaces frames, forks, wheels, tires; all at great expense...) The purpose was to coordinate campaigns of lies and deceit.

  36. #36
    Mr.650b - Mr.27-5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    A very important event is missing from the timeline.

    At some moment there was a secret cabal meeting, rumored to be held in the village of Zugarramurdi, where industry decided on their next big lie designed to sell more stuff to poor suckers, when the old stuff works just fine. Previous topics of that annual meeting were of adopting indexed shifting, suspension forks, disk brakes, variations of headset and bottom bracket standards, 9 speed and 10 speed drivetrain, and of course the most recent scum of 29" wheelsizes (when poor people had been forced to replaces frames, forks, wheels, tires; all at great expense...) The purpose was to coordinate campaigns of lies and deceit.

    ha!
    Cheers,
    KP
    Last edited by Kirk Pacenti; 05-30-2012 at 08:49 PM.

  37. #37
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    Very thorough timeline from CH

    I will add that depending on what country your in, the timeline of available parts is vastly different.

    Here in Aus for example we have had PACENTI tyres, Velocity Rims, (tho even with these even they were made 15mins down the road, we were pulling them out of US stock from their containers) Schwable tyres, Carver bikes, NoTubes rims and that's bout it

    No Haro bikes, No Jamis bikes, no Kenda tyres, no WTB, no American Classic, no Soma.

    I'm sure that it's the same around the globe in differing countries out there. I would be interested to know how the timeline would look in different areas
    Last edited by stu44; 06-01-2012 at 04:20 AM.
    Defcon Cycles - Brisbane Australia

  38. #38
    dwt
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    A very important event is missing from the timeline.

    At some moment there was a secret cabal meeting, rumored to be held in the village of Zugarramurdi, where industry decided on their next big lie designed to sell more stuff to poor suckers, when the old stuff works just fine. Previous topics of that annual meeting were of adopting indexed shifting, suspension forks, disk brakes, variations of headset and bottom bracket standards, 9 speed and 10 speed drivetrain, and of course the most recent scum of 29" wheelsizes (when poor people had been forced to replaces frames, forks, wheels, tires; all at great expense...) The purpose was to coordinate campaigns of lies and deceit.
    Hmmm. How does the tactic that Trek, C'dale, Spec, Santa Cruz won't be selling them and are even fanning the flames that 650b is a scam fit in? We'll end up with wierd industry in 2014, the big players will be sellin nothing but 29'ers, and the little companies will be catering to bike snobs who still are looking for old school 26"!gravity and jumping bikes or that flash in the pan fad 650b AM bike.

    And How does the rabidly anti 650b On One guy on Twitter brant @ shedfire,fit in to the conspiracy?


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    Last edited by dwt; 06-03-2012 at 01:57 PM.
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  39. #39
    Axe
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    And How does the rabidly anti 650b On One guy on Twitter brant @ shedfire,fit in to the conspiracy?
    He did not get the memo. He was on a trip promoting their new AM 29rs that are just coming out...

  40. #40
    dwt
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    He did not get the memo. He was on a trip promoting their new AM 29rs that are just coming out...
    I think the big boys are paying him off "help us snuff this threat to total 29'er domination, we will make it worth your while."

    Seriously, you can't have a conspiracy to fleece the public if the owners of most of the market share not only are not part if it, but are trying to torpedo the movement behind the scene.


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  41. #41
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    They cannot stop the truth.
    I am immune to your disdain.

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