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  1. #1
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    Suntour and the garbage XCM Fork. Shame on you Specialized

    Bought a 3.0 Fuse this year from my friend who is a co-owner of a local shop here in Phoenix. At 55 and with a vast amount of desert right out the door, the 3.0 was a perfect bike for what I wanted. I have had my share of quality bikes and I knew buying the base 3.0 for $1k, I was not getting top of the line, or even middle of the line components but this XCM is just a step above Wal-Mart. Absolute garbage. With only a few hundred miles on her the fork froze. NOTHING on that fork would work. Still under warranty, I take it to the shop and all three guys including a very well respected wrench all agree the fork is broke. NOT SO says Suntour. So I get a $50 shipping bill and a thanks for playing pat on the back. My bad and my rant is over. Selling this POS and leaving the Specialized name in the dust. Anyone want to give me $600 for it? Don't by this pile and yes, I know, but I had to get it off my chest.

  2. #2
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    I see some misdirected blame here.
    Suntour manufactured the fork and had poor customer support.. Blame specialized.
    Your friend, who owns the lbs, sold you an inferior product and the customer support they offered was to tell you that it was broken. Somehow you got stuck with shipping on that too, but by all means blame specialized.

  3. #3
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    Wow, $1000 for a used bike with a cheap coil fork?

    There are $1000 brand-new hardtails out there with air forks, not top of the line but good enough.

    And yes, most/all of these cheap coil forks end up partially or completely seizing later, usually after 500-1000 miles. I'm riding one right now that claims to have 80mm of travel and really has about 30mm now. Oh well, you get what you pay for. I'm not complaining. I'll put on a cheap air fork later, only $190 including LBS labor. That's just what you do, no complaining, just a cheap upgrade and move on.
    Gallia est omnis divisa in partes tres: quod Belgiae, quod Celtae, et quod Aquitainae.

  4. #4
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    Rich, its not the first time you posted about how bad coil forks are.

    A garbage air fork is just as bad as a garbage coil fork. Suntour makes really bad air forks too. Something simply having a different spring doesnt make it any better. A $190 air fork from the lbs is going to be just as bad, if not worse. You now have a leaky air spring to worry about!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    Wow, $1000 for a used bike with a cheap coil fork?

    There are $1000 brand-new hardtails out there with air forks, not top of the line but good enough.
    I think one thing that would help the relevancy of your post is if the OP had bought a used bike instead of a new one.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrashbarg View Post
    I see some misdirected blame here.
    Suntour manufactured the fork and had poor customer support.. Blame specialized.
    Your friend, who owns the lbs, sold you an inferior product and the customer support they offered was to tell you that it was broken. Somehow you got stuck with shipping on that too, but by all means blame specialized.

    I agree here. Blame Specialized for a crappy Suntour product.

    Be a man and take it back to your dealer and make them do the right thing.

  7. #7
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    Typical specialized, always pinching pennies.

  8. #8
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    So you bought a complete new bike for 1k and expect the fork to not be a POS? The only reason they sell bikes like that is people demand the price point...so they give it to you. Add the cost of a half decent fork, replace it, and now you have spent what you should have in the first place and no longer have anything to complain about.

    And no, that's not harsh. 10 seconds of research would have told you that fork was a POS before you chose to buy the bike.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by sml-2727 View Post
    Typical specialized, always pinching pennies.
    I know, I've noticed that they often have exactly one good component on their bikes and then the rest is average or crap. In other words you can take any $500 bike, put one good component on it, and call it Specialized, then sell it for $1250.
    Gallia est omnis divisa in partes tres: quod Belgiae, quod Celtae, et quod Aquitainae.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by WaywardTraveller View Post
    So you bought a complete new bike for 1k and expect the fork to not be a POS? The only reason they sell bikes like that is people demand the price point...so they give it to you. Add the cost of a half decent fork, replace it, and now you have spent what you should have in the first place and no longer have anything to complain about.

    And no, that's not harsh. 10 seconds of research would have told you that fork was a POS before you chose to buy the bike.

    If you think all forks under 140mm are a POS, then your statement is true. But at this price range there are air forks on many of the bikes, so he really should have bought one with an air fork to begin with, but it's not the end of the world, he just buys one now and puts it on. No big deal.
    Gallia est omnis divisa in partes tres: quod Belgiae, quod Celtae, et quod Aquitainae.

  11. #11
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    Just use the Suntour upgrade program and get it over with like everyone when their beginner fork dies an early death from actual riding. $200 later and you could have a nice air fork rather than whining about how terrible the world is. It's just that easy.

  12. #12
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    The cheapest 'decent' air forks for XC bikes are $120 for a 29" Suntour (I think XCR) and $130 for a Chinese knockoff one called Xoss, which is either 26" or 27.5". Since it's way too hot to bike today, high is 99F, I'll drop off my 26" bike and have them put on the Xoss 27.5" fork and I'll tell you how it goes with it. Supposedly it actually does OK. FYI I don't take big jumps or drops. Considering stuff like XCM is selling for $70-100, there is absolutely no reason to buy a cheap coil fork when you can buy a cheap air fork for $50-75 more. I understand that manufacturers want to keep the price point down on a cheaper bike, but they are looking at it totally wrong. If it's hardly any more money to put on a cheap air fork, then they should do it on the sub $1000 bikes and then use that as a marketing tool to claim stuff like "Only bike in its class with an air fork", etc. They don't understand the opportunity for marketing if they did that and spent a few more bucks.
    Gallia est omnis divisa in partes tres: quod Belgiae, quod Celtae, et quod Aquitainae.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    The cheapest 'decent' air forks for XC bikes are $120 for a 29" Suntour (I think XCR) and $130 for a Chinese knockoff one called Xoss, which is either 26" or 27.5".
    You've just redefined the word "decent". (which XCR is not)

    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    Since it's way too hot to bike today, high is 99F,
    Toughen up, buttercup.

    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    I understand that manufacturers want to keep the price point down on a cheaper bike, but they are looking at it totally wrong. If it's hardly any more money to put on a cheap air fork, then they should do it on the sub $1000 bikes and then use that as a marketing tool to claim stuff like "Only bike in its class with an air fork", etc. They don't understand the opportunity for marketing if they did that and spent a few more bucks.
    They understand. It's just not worth the cost at that pricepoint. Most new riders won't know they need a new fork until it's too late. At that point, the sale is made. Pennies saved and mission accomplished for the manufacturer.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    The cheapest 'decent' air forks for XC bikes are $120 for a 29" Suntour (I think XCR) and $130 for a Chinese knockoff one called Xoss, which is either 26" or 27.5". Since it's way too hot to bike today, high is 99F, I'll drop off my 26" bike and have them put on the Xoss 27.5" fork and I'll tell you how it goes with it. Supposedly it actually does OK. FYI I don't take big jumps or drops. Considering stuff like XCM is selling for $70-100, there is absolutely no reason to buy a cheap coil fork when you can buy a cheap air fork for $50-75 more. I understand that manufacturers want to keep the price point down on a cheaper bike, but they are looking at it totally wrong. If it's hardly any more money to put on a cheap air fork, then they should do it on the sub $1000 bikes and then use that as a marketing tool to claim stuff like "Only bike in its class with an air fork", etc. They don't understand the opportunity for marketing if they did that and spent a few more bucks.
    You do realize cheap air forks and cheap coul forks are the exact same thing, cheap crap. They work for very mild riding and require a lot of attention.

    After riding and dealing with cheap forks for a while and then given what should be decent air fork (Suntour Raidon) a shot for it to start having issues after a season, I will ride a rigid fat bike for everything before I deal with crappy suspension forks. My Raidons weren't bad but had to do a full service and replace seals at under 500 miles. Like new again now but just hanging in my garage.

    My simplest and best fix, watch Ebay for a good deal. Got magnum pro for a hair over $200 shipped to my door in damn near new condition, even in the original box with stickers and manual. Did a lower service just for piece of mind and been the best forks I have ridden in all the years I've been riding again.

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  15. #15
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    research, THEN buy


  16. #16
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    Find a new LBS, yours sucks, and get a new fork. You can get something decent for less than the cost of replacing the entire bike - maybe 200-400. The fuse is a great frame, no need to toss it over a crap fork.

  17. #17
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    Did you talk to SR Suntour directly or through the shop? If it's just a cartridge freeze, it's either an easy fix or an easy swap (less than 5 minutes either way) and if it's under warranty it'll be free. email service@usulcorp.com with the details of the issue and they'll get you squared away.
    SR Suntour guru. envelo rep.

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  18. #18
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    How do you break an XCM? A pogo stick has fewer moving parts

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAKC Ind View Post
    You do realize cheap air forks and cheap coul forks are the exact same thing, cheap crap. They work for very mild riding and require a lot of attention.

    After riding and dealing with cheap forks for a while and then given what should be decent air fork (Suntour Raidon) a shot for it to start having issues after a season, I will ride a rigid fat bike for everything before I deal with crappy suspension forks. My Raidons weren't bad but had to do a full service and replace seals at under 500 miles. Like new again now but just hanging in my garage.

    My simplest and best fix, watch Ebay for a good deal. Got magnum pro for a hair over $200 shipped to my door in damn near new condition, even in the original box with stickers and manual. Did a lower service just for piece of mind and been the best forks I have ridden in all the years I've been riding again.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

    No, they are not the exact same thing. From a perfectionistic point of view, all cheap is garbage. I happen to follow a relativistic point of view. You can use all of the suspension on a cheap air fork; you can't on a cheap coil fork because the softest setting still uses only 50-60%. Every few months on here a fellow beginner asks why they can't use all of their coil fork, we probably all wondered that at one time. My Raidon has around 800 miles on it and doing great. No attention required. Different riding style I guess. I'm doing 10-15 mph downhill and no big jumps or drops, and cheap air works great. I mean, we are still talking about XC bikes, right? Not all-mountain? Compared with all-mountain isn't XC 'very mild riding'? Like I said above it's all relative, why look at it in black and white terms.
    Gallia est omnis divisa in partes tres: quod Belgiae, quod Celtae, et quod Aquitainae.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Lefty View Post
    How do you break an XCM? A pogo stick has fewer moving parts
    Thats easy, go into the grass or dirt

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan1963 View Post
    Bought a 3.0 Fuse this year from my friend who is a co-owner of a local shop here in Phoenix. At 55 and with a vast amount of desert right out the door, the 3.0 was a perfect bike for what I wanted. I have had my share of quality bikes and I knew buying the base 3.0 for $1k, I was not getting top of the line, or even middle of the line components but this XCM is just a step above Wal-Mart. Absolute garbage. With only a few hundred miles on her the fork froze. NOTHING on that fork would work. Still under warranty, I take it to the shop and all three guys including a very well respected wrench all agree the fork is broke. NOT SO says Suntour. So I get a $50 shipping bill and a thanks for playing pat on the back. My bad and my rant is over. Selling this POS and leaving the Specialized name in the dust. Anyone want to give me $600 for it? Don't by this pile and yes, I know, but I had to get it off my chest.
    Your friend is a co owner and sold you the bike? He or his employees agreed that the fork was broken? Yet between them they could not get a warranty for you—and stiffed you with a shipping bill?

    Specialized isn’t your problem, it’s your friends.


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  22. #22
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    The Radion on my kid's Fuse seized up after about 1000 miles. The LBS had long ago burned their bridge with me over the ever loosening ball and cone "cartridge" rear hub. Suntour got crappy about not having the LBS involved. I didn't want to give them the $80 plus shipping to fix the Radion myself, or another $200 for a "better" fork. I just bit the bullet and bought a Fox fork.

    I will say this. The Radion fork is right out there and easy for any buyer to see. Specialized isn't exactly hiding that lower end fork, and anyone with the internet can find out about the (lack of) reliability. Plus the thing actually worked pretty good before it turned into a pumpkin. Now the hidden hub with fake specs, the headset that fell apart. Those are hidden treasures.

    They are pretty bad ass bikes. The frame geo is nice, and Specialized does know how to make a frame.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    No, they are not the exact same thing. From a perfectionistic point of view, all cheap is garbage. I happen to follow a relativistic point of view. You can use all of the suspension on a cheap air fork; you can't on a cheap coil fork because the softest setting still uses only 50-60%. Every few months on here a fellow beginner asks why they can't use all of their coil fork, we probably all wondered that at one time. My Raidon has around 800 miles on it and doing great. No attention required. Different riding style I guess. I'm doing 10-15 mph downhill and no big jumps or drops, and cheap air works great. I mean, we are still talking about XC bikes, right? Not all-mountain? Compared with all-mountain isn't XC 'very mild riding'? Like I said above it's all relative, why look at it in black and white terms.
    I've used from Walmart level (when I first started riding) up through xcr,xcm, and raidon. As well as rockshox old coul, entry coil, entry air and so on.

    Never had a problem bottoming out coil forks or using all of my travel. Walmart ones die quickly even just riding pavement and gravel, suntour handles very mild trails no problem for a while, but need constant attention to keep from failing, raidon still smooth as silk but 2 serviced in 500 miles otherwise sticion becomes a nightmare. Before the bike with a raidon I had a manitou marvel pro. Great fork. Raidon got subjected to same level of riding and got tired of fighting with it. Was smooth and plush when working right.

    Cheap air and cheap coil are still made cheaply and last about as long either way if not serviced constantly or beat on.

    Magnum pro now and I've demoed fox. High end RS and such, doesnt hold a candle to the magnum pro.

    I hate high end forks more than I dislike cheap forks because high end works better than cheap and major components last longer but mid range forks is where it's at IMHO.

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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by adaycj View Post
    The Radion on my kid's Fuse seized up after about 1000 miles. The LBS had long ago burned their bridge with me over the ever loosening ball and cone "cartridge" rear hub. Suntour got crappy about not having the LBS involved. I didn't want to give them the $80 plus shipping to fix the Radion myself, or another $200 for a "better" fork. I just bit the bullet and bought a Fox fork.
    You rode it for a thousand miles, did nothing to it, and wonder why it doesn't work? Yeah, if I were your shop I wouldn't work with you either.

  25. #25
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    Try the upgrade program.
    https://www.srsuntour.com/pages/upgrade

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by adaycj View Post
    The Radion on my kid's Fuse seized up after about 1000 miles. The LBS had long ago burned their bridge with me over the ever loosening ball and cone "cartridge" rear hub. Suntour got crappy about not having the LBS involved. I didn't want to give them the $80 plus shipping to fix the Radion myself, or another $200 for a "better" fork. I just bit the bullet and bought a Fox fork.

    I will say this. The Radion fork is right out there and easy for any buyer to see. Specialized isn't exactly hiding that lower end fork, and anyone with the internet can find out about the (lack of) reliability. Plus the thing actually worked pretty good before it turned into a pumpkin. Now the hidden hub with fake specs, the headset that fell apart. Those are hidden treasures.

    They are pretty bad ass bikes. The frame geo is nice, and Specialized does know how to make a frame.

    I don't understand. You said a bunch of things at one time, both good and bad about the bike.

    Was the hidden hub with fake specs and the headset that fell apart original equipment or did the LBS put those on aftermarket?

    Was the bike badass except for the fork, hub, and headset? I mean...aren't those three really important components? I could say my car is pretty badass except for the crappy brakes, the engine hesitation, and all of the transmission problems, I guess I could say that too.

    If you don't mind, I'm going to chalk this up as another imbalanced Specialized bike that has some good components and some bad ones. Unless the LBS put on the fork, hub, and headset later and they screwed those 3 things up.
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  27. #27
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    What I don't understand is, if the co-owner of this bike shop is actually a friend, then wtf do you have problems like this for? Or maybe your definition of friend is different from mine?

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAKC Ind View Post
    You do realize cheap air forks and cheap coul forks are the exact same thing, cheap crap. They work for very mild riding and require a lot of attention.

    After riding and dealing with cheap forks for a while and then given what should be decent air fork (Suntour Raidon) a shot for it to start having issues after a season, I will ride a rigid fat bike for everything before I deal with crappy suspension forks. My Raidons weren't bad but had to do a full service and replace seals at under 500 miles. Like new again now but just hanging in my garage.

    My simplest and best fix, watch Ebay for a good deal. Got magnum pro for a hair over $200 shipped to my door in damn near new condition, even in the original box with stickers and manual. Did a lower service just for piece of mind and been the best forks I have ridden in all the years I've been riding again.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


    This link is with a Raidon doing downhill switchbacks with 5-8 inch rocks littering the trail. Can you honestly call this "very mild riding"? If that's very mild riding then you were using the Raidon for something it was not even meant for. Common sense can go a long way even in mountain biking. RAKC, I really do like most of your posts, but I'm afraid we have a disagreement on this one, sorry.

    https://youtu.be/jaIu4lrmr94
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    This link is with a Raidon doing downhill switchbacks with 5-8 inch rocks littering the trail. Can you honestly call this "very mild riding"? If that's very mild riding then you were using the Raidon for something it was not even meant for. Common sense can go a long way even in mountain biking. RAKC, I really do like most of your posts, but I'm afraid we have a disagreement on this one, sorry.

    https://youtu.be/jaIu4lrmr94
    Still not downhill. Still not fast or what would be considered even close to aggressive riding. Most of the larger loose rocks are off the side of the trail, so a non-issue. And all that should be well within the Raidon's performance capabilities assuming you don't intentionally hit every rock on the way down. Is that why it's so shaky?

  30. #30
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    I'm not agreeing but not disagreeing. They will function and handle whatever. But question is for how long. And how much work is needed to do so. I could keep a Walmart bike going till the frame broke, but a lot of time and effort wrenching vs hours riding. And wont perform as well as better, but without using better you wouldn't know or care any different.

    That's what I did to my raidon most of last season. Plenty of 12"-18" jumps/drops as well. Problem being it needed a lot of attention and not going to hold up for the long haul like good forks will. Not when I had to go through it twice in less than 1 season which trail mileage for a season for me is usually 500-700 miles (usually add 1000-1500 of paths, gravel, road etc on other bikes and a few hundred stomping the off season on the fat bike)

    It's not what they will handle initially, it's how long they will handle it. I liked the raidon for the first bit, but it cant compare to mid level forks.

    I never had cheaper suntours lock up either, but needed a lot of attention and wore out quickly.
    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    This link is with a Raidon doing downhill switchbacks with 5-8 inch rocks littering the trail. Can you honestly call this "very mild riding"? If that's very mild riding then you were using the Raidon for something it was not even meant for. Common sense can go a long way even in mountain biking. RAKC, I really do like most of your posts, but I'm afraid we have a disagreement on this one, sorry.

    https://youtu.be/jaIu4lrmr94
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