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  1. #1
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    Question about Tubeless

    I just purchased a 2018 Gt Verb Expert and I noticed it comes with Tubeless Rims But Me being a Noob To Tubeless Bikes I wanted to Know how to find out if the Bike is already Tubeless of if I need to convert it over. Im a Big Guy 5'10 255 lbs and is there even a Benefit to running Tubeless?

  2. #2
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    Quick search reveals the following 'spec'...
    GT Verb Expert Bike 2018 | Jenson USA

    Based on this you're good to go but tubeless ready bikes are shipped with tubes in them. My 2018 Kona came tubeless ready with WTB i29 rims and when I removed tubes the rims were already taped. There was also a set of tubeless valve stems that came with bike. These are installed directly to rim after tubes are removed and wheel taping is completed.

    I would do the following:
    1. Go to Stan's website and look at tubeless video's to get a feel for how it works (wheel taping, sealant, valve stems, proper installation, etc).

    2. Check your wheels to see if they are already taped. This will determine if tape is needed.

    3. Buy tape (if needed), sealant, and tubeless valve stems...install per videos.

    4. An air compressor is useful when inflating...not 100% necessary but makes life easier vs using floor pump to 'set' tire bead.

    5. Per video, pump up and check for leaks (soapy water)

    I'm also a clyde at 220lbs...will never go back to tubes (been riding 30 years). Smooth's out smaller trail vibrations, less rolling resistance, no more pinch flats, etc. I run 22-25psi on 27.5/2.5's...Used to run 30-35psi with tubes. You need to determine what pressure is best for you but I would start at 25 or so and give it a few rides. Tire profile, rim width, type of riding, terrain, rider preference are all variables.
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  3. #3
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    The benefits of tubeless, whether the rider is 255 lbs or 155 lbs, are better trail feel, better traction, and better small bump absorption. Tubeless also has the ability to self-seal certain punctures, meaning fewer flats.

    If you need to set up tubeless yourself use valve stems with removable cores. It makes the process much easier. Fully seat the tire (after ensuring the rim is taped), remove the valve core, then inflate the tire using a high volume pump or compressor. The tire bead will give satisfying popping sounds. Just be careful not to blow the tire off the rim, especially if youíre using a compressor (gas station compressors arenít a good idea). Once the bead is set let the air out by removing the pump. Hang the wheel with the stem at the bottom and inject the sealant through the valve. Replace the valve core, inflate and do the tubeless shake and shuffle. Stanís has good instructions as does YouTube. Using a tire that has already been inflated on the rim makes the process easier. Some new tires are more difficult to set up initially, having spent their lives being folded. For those, it makes life easier if you set up the tires with tubes and let them sit overnight. Then remove the tubes and set up tubeless.

    Some tubeless ready rims can be tough to get the tire on or off. The fit is tight. Soapy water can help. There are also some lube products that are supposed to help. Sometimes a tire lever is needed. Usually, though, a lot of patience, a little cursing, and some time working the tire will get the tough ones on or off. Just stick with it.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by JagerJohnny View Post
    I just purchased a 2018 Gt Verb Expert and I noticed it comes with Tubeless Rims But Me being a Noob To Tubeless Bikes I wanted to Know how to find out if the Bike is already Tubeless of if I need to convert it over. Im a Big Guy 5'10 255 lbs and is there even a Benefit to running Tubeless?

    I'm having a similar issue Johnny. If you are mechanically inclined and have the right tools and your tires are tubeless ready, then go for it!

    However...if one or both of the above don't apply, you could be in for some trouble trying to go tubeless. I've tried it twice with no success. And that's OK, sometimes you have to try stuff and learn the hard way. I (and many others) simply took the tire and rim to the LBS and had them put it on and add sealant.


    As far as tubeless vs. tubed: others will know more or have more experience, but so far this has been mine:

    Yes tubeless has a better feel. You may be able to go down a bit lower in psi. If you want to go to + tires then try tubeless for sure. I'm now riding a 2.8 inch wide + tire tubeless and having a blast, doing things on the bike I could not do before (rolling over larger obstacles, going into and out of deeper ruts in the trail, etc). However, if you are sticking with a standard tire, in my opinion (and a ton of people will disagree with this), there is not a huge difference between tubed and tubeless.

    For a standard tire, most people can get the psi down to 20-25 tubeless. A lot of these same people started out 20-30 years ago riding skinny tires with tubes, and they had to pump up the tire to 40-60 psi. So later they go from a skinny tire, like 1.7 or 1.9 to a 2.2 to 2.5 tire, go tubeless, have a much lower psi, and think it's great. Well, yes, compared to what they started out with, it is way better.

    But as long as a tube has sealant in it, you CAN go down below 25 psi on a standard tire. I don't think many on here understand this!!! And flats are rare, only every several hundred miles or more, because there is sealant in there just like with tubeless. The only issue is extra weight, often about 1/2 lb extra weight per tire due to the tube and sealant vs. sealant only. That's why I'm experimenting with putting a lightweight 26" tube that's 5 ounces in back (I prefer tubed in back), with 3 ounces of sealant. Since most people doing tubeless add roughly 4 ounces of sealant, then compared to that you have a tire that weighs only 1/4 lb more tubed than tubeless. And who cares how the back tire feels compared to the front. Front is way more important to consider for tubeless anyway.

    Recap:
    If you have + tires or want to go +, try tubeless for sure
    For standard tires, if you are mechanically inclined, try it. If not, tubes are not the end of the world if they have sealant in them (many videos on how to remove Presta valve cores to add sealant either directly into the tire or into the tube).
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  5. #5
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    A couple of things. Tubeless on a 2.2 to 2.4Ē tire feels and performs noticeably better than a tire with tubes. That doesnít mean you canít or shouldnít ride with tubes. Many people do and it makes sense if youíre changing tires a lot. But, tubeless still allows better traction and feel vs. tube. People have tried putting baby power in the tire to get the tubeless feel with a tube but it still doesnít get there. If tubes work for someone, great. Not everyone goes tubeless. That, however, is different from saying there isnít really a difference with non-plus tires.

    As far as sealant, 4 ozs per wheel is a lot for non-plus tires. The usual is 2 ozs.

    A tube full of sealant wonít allow lower pressure vs a tube without sealant. Itís not the sealant that allows a tubeless tire to run lower pressure; itís the absence of the tube and the space it occupies. The point of running a tube with sealant is to reduce flats, not to get lower pressure.

    The rear tire feel is important for traction, particularly climbing in loose, slick, or rooty conditions. The front tire is the control tire, but the rear is the one thatís going to make or break that climb.

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    IME tubeless ready bikes that are shipped with tubes in them will come with the tubeless valve stems separately, in a baggie with the documentation or otherwise. If you have those, I would expect tubes are installed.

    If you don't have those, there still might be tubes and they just forgot to include the stems. To check, deflate the tire most but not all of the way and unthread the valve stem retainer about a quarter inch and press the valve stem in. If air leaks (and maybe some sealant too, safety glass wouldn't hurt), it's setup tubeless. If no air leaks, it's tubes. Careful not to let dirt in; if it is tubeless you want to make sure the stem re-seals well when you tighten it back up.

    And yes, IMO the only downside of tubeless is getting them set up. Once set up it's greater pressure range, better trail feel, less rolling resistance, less chance of flats, etc. etc. I would never run tubes if I had the choice; probably the only choice in MTB I don't have any reservations with.
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  7. #7
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    +1 - tubeless here and love it. Not much to add with what has already been shared.

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    I'm just learning all of this. My tubeless rim bike came with two extra stems and I thought they were just a different color option (black). The valves that were on the bike (silver) did not have removable stems, so today when I broke the bead to add sealant, to my surprise, there was a tube inside. Then I understood what the extra valves were for. I replaced the tubes with the tubelss stems and aired them. Good to hear about reducing pressure.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post

    As far as tubeless vs. tubed: others will know more or have more experience,
    As one of those "others" that know more and have more experience, I would suggest that folks ignore your opinions since they make no sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    However, if you are sticking with a standard tire, in my opinion (and a ton of people will disagree with this), there is not a huge difference between tubed and tubeless.
    The major difference between tubes and tubeless:

    -Virtually eliminate flats. Via sharp object or pinch flating.
    -the ability to run lower pressures which reduce rolling resistance and increase grip
    -weight savings vary

    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    For a standard tire, most people can get the psi down to 20-25 tubeless.
    Or lower, especially with wider rims that provide more sidewall support.

    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    A lot of these same people started out 20-30 years ago riding skinny tires with tubes, and they had to pump up the tire to 40-60 psi. So later they go from a skinny tire, like 1.7 or 1.9 to a 2.2 to 2.5 tire, go tubeless, have a much lower psi, and think it's great. Well, yes, compared to what they started out with, it is way better.
    Where do you come up with this stuff?

    I started 30+ years ago on 26x2.0 tires, never ran 40-60psi. For years I regularly ran 2.3s in 30-32psi range, tubed. Sometimes even high 20s if I switched out to a tirewith a DH casing.

    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    But as long as a tube has sealant in it, you CAN go down below 25 psi on a standard tire. I don't think many on here understand this!!!
    The person that doesn't understand is you. Sealant in a tube is not going to prevent a pinch flat at low, tubeless-range, pressures for most riders. It will help with thorns though.

    While you may be able to ride below 25psi with sealant filled tubes without pinch flating, you are one extreme end of the riding spectrum (riding at very low speeds, even while descending).

    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    And flats are rare, only every several hundred miles or more, because there is sealant in there just like with tubeless.
    Again, pinch flats. You don't seem familiar with what they are. Also, if you're getting a flat every several hundred miles, that's not rare.

    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    And who cares how the back tire feels compared to the front. Front is way more important to consider for tubeless anyway.
    This is the kind of nonsense that really supports the fact that newbs should ignore you.

    People who actually mountain bike really care how the back tire feels compared to the front. Traction while climbing is very important. Lower pressure = better traction so folks who ride tricky climbs appreciate the increase in traction compared to tubes.

  10. #10
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    ^bam, right on the money
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    Quote Originally Posted by fillaroida View Post
    People who actually mountain bike really care how the back tire feels compared to the front. Traction while climbing is very important. Lower pressure = better traction so folks who ride tricky climbs appreciate the increase in traction compared to tubes.
    Often you can really feel the back step out while cornering (no brake). A few less psi really helps keep the bike tracking. Then I went to far, 18psi works great in front but I damaged the rear rim with a rock strike. It didn't flat and I had to hit the same rock a 2nd time, getting a 2nd dent, to figure it out. On trials with root/rock I don't get below 22psi in the rear.
    oops I wasn't clipped in

  12. #12
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    i ride with tubes and more knobbEish tires (if lookin for more traction)

    tubeless is a pita

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by nauc View Post
    i ride with tubes and more knobbEish tires (if lookin for more traction)

    tubeless is a pita
    Not the same and not from my experience

  14. #14
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    Tubeless, with real tubeless components, is pretty easy these days. Often don't even need a compressor. It just works.

    Since most bikes ship tubeless ready now, it's easier to change over than to keep flatting tubes.

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    I'm a n00b at converting my "tubeless ready" bike to tubeless. My first attempt failed because somehow the tape developed holes at the spoke nipples. I removed that tape and installed Stans tape very carefully on rims that were cleaned carefully. There were some small air bubbles in the tape that I couldn't rub out so I put the tube back and rode it a few miles. Last night I removed the tube, installed the tubeless valve but no sealant and pumped the tire up hard. This morning it was flat. I pumped it up again, dunked the wheel in a sink full of water and saw air bubbles coming out around the spoke nipples. OK, so the tape didn't make a perfect seal, or maybe the valve seat isn't airtight.
    I visually inspected the tape and saw no holes or tears but a few small bubbles under the tape. I put the tube back and pumped it up.

    So my question for the experts is, what's my next step? Any chance the tube will squeeze the little bubbles out of the tape in a week or two? One little bubble looked like it might extend from the spoke hole to the edge of the tape. Is there any way to observe exactly where the air is getting through? Or should I put in the sealant and hope it takes care of the leak? Thanks for your help.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by fillaroida View Post
    As one of those "others" that know more and have more experience, I would suggest that folks ignore your opinions since they make no sense.



    The major difference between tubes and tubeless:

    -Virtually eliminate flats. Via sharp object or pinch flating.
    -the ability to run lower pressures which reduce rolling resistance and increase grip
    -weight savings vary



    Or lower, especially with wider rims that provide more sidewall support.



    Where do you come up with this stuff?

    I started 30+ years ago on 26x2.0 tires, never ran 40-60psi. For years I regularly ran 2.3s in 30-32psi range, tubed. Sometimes even high 20s if I switched out to a tirewith a DH casing.



    The person that doesn't understand is you. Sealant in a tube is not going to prevent a pinch flat at low, tubeless-range, pressures for most riders. It will help with thorns though.

    While you may be able to ride below 25psi with sealant filled tubes without pinch flating, you are one extreme end of the riding spectrum (riding at very low speeds, even while descending).



    Again, pinch flats. You don't seem familiar with what they are. Also, if you're getting a flat every several hundred miles, that's not rare.



    This is the kind of nonsense that really supports the fact that newbs should ignore you.

    People who actually mountain bike really care how the back tire feels compared to the front. Traction while climbing is very important. Lower pressure = better traction so folks who ride tricky climbs appreciate the increase in traction compared to tubes.
    Getting kind of personal there, fillaroida!

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSU Alum View Post
    Getting kind of personal there, fillaroida!

    And that's why there is an ignore button
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by WaltHaas View Post
    I'm a n00b at converting my "tubeless ready" bike to tubeless. My first attempt failed because somehow the tape developed holes at the spoke nipples. I removed that tape and installed Stans tape very carefully on rims that were cleaned carefully. There were some small air bubbles in the tape that I couldn't rub out so I put the tube back and rode it a few miles. Last night I removed the tube, installed the tubeless valve but no sealant and pumped the tire up hard. This morning it was flat. I pumped it up again, dunked the wheel in a sink full of water and saw air bubbles coming out around the spoke nipples. OK, so the tape didn't make a perfect seal, or maybe the valve seat isn't airtight.
    I visually inspected the tape and saw no holes or tears but a few small bubbles under the tape. I put the tube back and pumped it up.

    So my question for the experts is, what's my next step? Any chance the tube will squeeze the little bubbles out of the tape in a week or two? One little bubble looked like it might extend from the spoke hole to the edge of the tape. Is there any way to observe exactly where the air is getting through? Or should I put in the sealant and hope it takes care of the leak? Thanks for your help.

    Funny how people on here say that tubeless requires zero maintenance.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by WaltHaas View Post
    I'm a n00b at converting my "tubeless ready" bike to tubeless. My first attempt failed because somehow the tape developed holes at the spoke nipples. I removed that tape and installed Stans tape very carefully on rims that were cleaned carefully. There were some small air bubbles in the tape that I couldn't rub out so I put the tube back and rode it a few miles. Last night I removed the tube, installed the tubeless valve but no sealant and pumped the tire up hard. This morning it was flat. I pumped it up again, dunked the wheel in a sink full of water and saw air bubbles coming out around the spoke nipples. OK, so the tape didn't make a perfect seal, or maybe the valve seat isn't airtight.
    I visually inspected the tape and saw no holes or tears but a few small bubbles under the tape. I put the tube back and pumped it up.

    So my question for the experts is, what's my next step? Any chance the tube will squeeze the little bubbles out of the tape in a week or two? One little bubble looked like it might extend from the spoke hole to the edge of the tape. Is there any way to observe exactly where the air is getting through? Or should I put in the sealant and hope it takes care of the leak? Thanks for your help.
    Your next step is putting sealant in the tire. I would have done that as soon as you got the beads seated (or even before, just by pouring it in the bottom of the tire. Leaving the tire overnight without sealant doesnít accomplish anything. The sealant will fill small imperfections in the tape or tire.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    Funny how people on here say that tubeless requires zero maintenance.
    His question has nothing to do with maintenance. He had to replace rim tape because a tube had been rubbing on it and abraded it. After that he got the tire to take air and seat just fine; he just didnít add sealant.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    And that's why there is an ignore button
    The problem with that is that the people i'm sure you put on your ignore list are trying to help you (till they give up) or just trying set you straight, but you don't seem to like people actually telling you what's what, you seem to prefer to ignore them and then just sprout nonsense or take things compeletely out of context and run off on a tangent

    But then I imagine I'm on the ignore list anyway so it's all moot.
    All the gear and no idea.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    Funny how people on here say that tubeless requires zero maintenance.
    I installed new tires on my bike in like, March.
    I put the tire on the rim.
    I put sealant in the tire.
    I inflated the tire.
    That was all.
    Really no more steps than installing a tube.


    I rode about 500 miles on them between March and mid-May.
    I checked the psi before every ride, and adjusted accordingly.
    *I had zero flats.* In "land of Cactus and things that will poke you" Arizona.

    Once, about mid May, I unscrewed the valve core and squirted in 2 more oz of sealant. I don't know that it needed it, but it didn't 'slosh' when I shook the front wheel. Figured it couldn't hurt.


    In mid-May my life kind of fell apart, and I haven't touched my bike since May 13th. My last ride.

    I just checked. both tires still have air in them.


    Pretty much zero maintenance I'd say.
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    Your next step is putting sealant in the tire. I would have done that as soon as you got the beads seated (or even before, just by pouring it in the bottom of the tire. Leaving the tire overnight without sealant doesnít accomplish anything. The sealant will fill small imperfections in the tape or tire.
    That turned out to be good advice. Thanks! I put the sealant in on Saturday and by Tuesday morning it had done its job and the tires held air at least as well as they had with tubes.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    Funny how people on here say that tubeless requires zero maintenance.

    I've never heard anyone say that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    I've never heard anyone say that.
    Yeah, one look at the Wheels and Tires subforum will clear that whole myth up. Place is littered with people who have all sorts of different maintenance and set-up issues.

    Personally I run tubes. I know it works great for many, but every time I've gone tubeless, I end up having to put a tube in to get out of the woods at some point, so I just skip the middleman. Know a number of other riders that have ended up doing the same.

    Since going to plus tires, I haven't had a flat in 2 years (knock on wood), running pressures in mid teens in New England. I think what accounts for almost all of what people say is a better tire feel from tubeless is actually just a result of lowering their tire pressures. I would bet money that not 1 in 1000 riders could consistently tell the difference between set-ups run at the same pressure in a 'blind taste test'.
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Since going to plus tires, I haven't had a flat in 2 years (knock on wood), running pressures in mid teens in New England.

    Maybe that's a case of East vs. West, do you guys have goatheads there? If I was able to go 2 years without flatting with tubes I probably would have never converted either. I was lucky to make it 2 weeks here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Maybe that's a case of East vs. West, do you guys have goatheads there? If I was able to go 2 years without flatting with tubes I probably would have never converted either. I was lucky to make it 2 weeks here.
    Yeah, not a lot of thorns. That would definitely make a difference for me too.
    After a few decades of riding, I'm also pretty good at avoiding pinches and picking the 'right' pressure for the type of terrain I'm riding too, so that helps.

    I have no idea where it is that people run their tires down to 12-14 psi or whatever, but around here, that just equals a shitload of rim strikes and no control in the corners.
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    For riding in the northeast, where thorns arenít much of an issue but rocks and roots are, Iíve found tubeless feels more supple on the ground giving more traction, particularly when the rocks and roots are a bit greasy. Thatís on standard and plus tires. The tire just seems to conform better to the trail. Maybe itís in my head - I never did a controlled test - but the bike does feel better set-up tubeless. As far as maintenance, people seem to forget or neglect that they need to periodically add new sealant. So, if you maintain your valve stems, rim tape and sealant levels itís ďzero maintenance.Ē

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnangry View Post
    So, if you maintain your valve stems, rim tape and sealant levels itís ďzero maintenance.Ē

    ^that makes no sense
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnangry View Post
    For riding in the northeast, where thorns arenít much of an issue but rocks and roots are, Iíve found tubeless feels more supple on the ground giving more traction, particularly when the rocks and roots are a bit greasy. Thatís on standard and plus tires. The tire just seems to conform better to the trail. Maybe itís in my head - I never did a controlled test - but the bike does feel better set-up tubeless.
    Do you run tubeless at the same pressure you ran tubes, or lower?
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  31. #31
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    FWIW my gravel bike has tubes, and I need to add air to those tires at least 2x as frequently as my tubeless MTB tires.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    ^that makes no sense
    You have to read it with a sarcastic tone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Do you run tubeless at the same pressure you ran tubes, or lower?
    I run tubeless at a lower pressure than tubes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnangry View Post
    I run tubeless at a lower pressure than tubes.
    Assumed so.

    Not directed at you specifically, just kind of making my point that a tubeless set-up itself doesn't really make much, if any, noticeable difference, it's the lower air pressure that does the trick. Tubes or tubeless run at the same pressure feel the same. (I don't believe that anyone could really differentiate by seat of their pants, but there are guys out there that swear they can tell if a mosquito is stuck to their frame..)

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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Assumed so.

    Not directed at you specifically, just kind of making my point that a tubeless set-up itself doesn't really make much, if any, noticeable difference, it's the lower air pressure that does the trick. Tubes or tubeless run at the same pressure feel the same. (I don't believe that anyone could really differentiate by seat of their pants, but there are guys out there that swear they can tell if a mosquito is stuck to their frame..)

    I think thatís part of the equation. I can run lower pressures with tubeless than with tubes. Whether the benefit I feel is purely a function of tubeless or is because of lower pressure, I canít say. Either way I get the result I want. I canít say that if I ran the same setup both tubeless and tubes that I could tell the difference in a blind test, because I havenít tried. If I did, though, Iíd have to run tubeless at a higher pressure because I canít run tubes as low as I can run tubeless and get the same effect. At the lower pressure, tubes felt sloppy. Meaning, it wouldnít be a true comparison because the tubeless wheels would be at a higher pressure than Iíd otherwise run them. That said, I donít believe thereís a right or wrong answer here. If there was actual objective, credible evidence establishing truths for most things related to bikes, thereíd be little to talk about.

  36. #36
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    I used to run tubes. But I got sick of replacing and patching tubes every 3 rides due to thorn (cactus flats). I got tired of one 24 mile ride I could not finish without a flat. I started with stans filled tubes that helped, but if I ran too low a pressure I would pinch flat on the rocks. Mostly in the rear. So I moved to a tubeless set-up. Since then I only have flat when my stans runs dry or a cut a tire. For stans running dry I can add stans on the trail and add air and be back and running. For cut tread I plug with tire bacon and for cut sidewalls I pretty much have to tube it. If you run good tires then you don't cut them often and things go well. It has been a very low time. (ie over 2000 miles) since I have had deal with a flat tire on the trail.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnangry View Post
    At the lower pressure, tubes felt sloppy.
    Interesting. Same exact tire/wheel/bike set-up otherwise? What would 'sloppy' entail?

    I find that in order not to get rim strikes and tires folding under hard cornering, I can't run super-low pressures, so the biggest supposed advantage of tubeless doesn't come in to play for me.
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    I find that in order not to get rim strikes and tires folding under hard cornering, I can't run super-low pressures, so the biggest supposed advantage of tubeless doesn't come in to play for me.

    I could never go much, if any lower psi tubeless, vs. tubed either because I start feeling the rim bottoming out on hard hits at about the same pressures. Biggest advantage by far for me is flat protection. Second is weight, I probably drop about 2/3 lb. on the wheels with tubeless. Maybe just placebo effect but I do think it's noticeable when I'm forced to use my emergency tube.
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    I could never go much, if any lower psi tubeless, vs. tubed either because I start feeling the rim bottoming out on hard hits at about the same pressures. Biggest advantage by far for me is flat protection. Second is weight, I probably drop about 2/3 lb. on the wheels with tubeless. Maybe just placebo effect but I do think it's noticeable when I'm forced to use my emergency tube.
    Dunno - running 45mm rims and 3.0" tires these days, so weight is obviously not something that I'm very concerned with.

    I will say that that there is no way in hell I could get as much life out of my tires running tubeless. Been running Specialized and the sidewalls turn into cheesecloth almost immediately.
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Dunno - running 45mm rims and 3.0" tires these days, so weight is obviously not something that I'm very concerned with.
    Yeah weight loss is a distant second behind flat protection for me, just a small side benefit.

    I think most TR tires have thicker casing so sidewalls are pretty tough, I've never managed to wear them out. Lug edges are the first to go for me, they get rounded quick. Also rocks seem to slice them open irreparably before I can wear them out otherwise.
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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    I think most TR tires have thicker casing so sidewalls are pretty tough,
    Somebody needs to get this news to Specialized!
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  42. #42
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    I do regularly bottom out my tire on the rim with tubeless because I'm running a bit lower pressure. On most rides there is a moment where I laugh and realize that hit would have pinch-flatted a tube. The pressure I had to run with tubes to avoid pinch flats made for a much harsher ride, so tubeless has made riding a hardtail aggressively on rocky trails a sustainable effort for me.

    With Specialized tires I noticed a big difference between the regular tubeless-ready tires and the reinforced sidewall GRID versions. Their standard "2Bliss" tires are like non-tubeless tires with a different bead shape. Their GRID tires have thicker and stiffer sidewalls that make a noticeable difference with tire squirm when running lower pressure and also hold sealant better in the long term.

    But even their standard casing is miles ahead of the Continental "tubeless ready" tire I had that leaked sealant through a million pinholes right out of the box!

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Dunno - running 45mm rims and 3.0" tires these days, so weight is obviously not something that I'm very concerned with.

    I will say that that there is no way in hell I could get as much life out of my tires running tubeless. Been running Specialized and the sidewalls turn into cheesecloth almost immediately.
    Yeah, I tried running some Specialized tires (non-GRID) tubeless and the sealant would just flow out the sides.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Maybe that's a case of East vs. West, do you guys have goatheads there? If I was able to go 2 years without flatting with tubes I probably would have never converted either. I was lucky to make it 2 weeks here.
    Maybe more south vs. north. NE and NW don't have the thorns that the southern tier of states do.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Yeah, one look at the Wheels and Tires subforum will clear that whole myth up. Place is littered with people who have all sorts of different maintenance and set-up issues.

    Personally I run tubes. I know it works great for many, but every time I've gone tubeless, I end up having to put a tube in to get out of the woods at some point, so I just skip the middleman. Know a number of other riders that have ended up doing the same.
    I'm in the same boat. I've had to install so many tubes that I've given up on tubeless.

    I do realize that there are likely significant benefits to tubeless if you live in a place with spikey plants. Those benefits disappear quickly in the woods of the PNW.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Interesting. Same exact tire/wheel/bike set-up otherwise? What would 'sloppy' entail?.
    ďSloppyĒ as in vague feeling and less predictable. Setup was the same. Of course if youíre running tubeless at higher pressures and thorns arenít an issue, then thereís little benefit. I guess thereís a weight difference but I never weighed a couple ounces of sealant vs a tube to really see how much of a difference there is.

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