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  1. #1
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    Prophet 650b build complete

    Finally got this wrapped up and going out for a quick 110-degree shakedown run today.

    Prophet frame.
    Pike coil fork
    Neo 2.3
    Sun Equalizer wheelset (Hope front/Shimano rear)
    blah, blah, blah

    Anyway, photos attached.








  2. #2
    mtbr member
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    Nice!!! Let me know how it compares to your Astrix Monk when you return!

  3. #3
    www.derbyrims.com
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    Ripper!

  4. #4
    Mr.650b - Mr.27-5
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    Well done!

    Cheers,

    KP

  5. #5
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    Thoughts and caveats: I didn't have a great ride. I just got off my work cycle and have had about 8 hours sleep in the last two days. I haven't ridden at all in about a month, concentrating a lot on Crossfit while it's really too hot to ride.

    Went FIP with a buddy who's new to the sport at 3 p.m. It was 110 degrees at that time. Roundabout way of saying I wasn't physically on top of my biking game.

    With that said, not sure how I feel about the bike. My overall feeling is: sluggish. And consider a 29er Astrix Monk is my normal ride, so I'm not new to big wheels. That feeling very easily could be attributable to my lack of energy and the heat. The bike did not feel like it was surging forward on pedal strokes like I'm used to. I'm running tubes to bed in my ghetto tubeless tape already in the wheels. I normally run tubeless. Pretty clear I'm going to have to step up to a firmer spring in the Pike as it appears to be too far into the suspension. Need to play with the Float rear.

    The downhill chunk/tech action was good. The bike handled really well, very neutral and intuitive. The suspension felt plush. The tires were OK; I'm used to a much wider rim for more footprint. The Sun rims seem very narrow, but they built up nice; nothing on the bike felt noodly or weird.

    Just felt like I was mired in quicksand. Again, clearly could be from my physical state and the heat. Will need a few more rides to get dialed.

    I will say this: The Prophet/Pike combo looks like it was made to run 650b wheels. Plenty of clearance, no rubbing, nada.

    McG: Based on one short ride, this bike isn't in the same league as my Monk, but I'm striving to maintain an open mind. For technical up and down riding, the Monk really is the best bikes I've ever had.
    d

  6. #6
    Old man on a bike
    Reputation: Bikinfoolferlife's Avatar
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    110 degrees could definitely be a factor. My 650b wheels don't feel sluggish at all, and I don't ride a 29er. 110 degrees would stop me in my tracks. The 90s today made me feel it towards the end of my ride. Compared to my heavy 26" rims/tires on another bike, the 650b set feels snappy most of the time (except when I'm tired), then it seems a bit harder but my gearing is the same between 650b/26" on the two bikes I usually trade off with. Give it some time...
    "...the people get the government they deserve..."
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikinfoolferlife
    110 degrees could definitely be a factor. .... Give it some time...
    Quite different bike types. The Monk has a very high pivot suspension, very stiffening when pedaling, an efficient design for smoother trail. The Prophet has a medium high pivot, more compliant to sit and spin with better momentum through rougher trail, and still climb without squatting or bobbing terribly. But the lower pivot is not as snappy as a high pivot on smooth trail. For smooth trail an RP23 with medium propedal switched on could make the Prophet pedaling more similar to the Monk.

  8. #8
    My spoon is too big!
    Reputation: medieval's Avatar
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    Very nice! I'm still saving up for the rear 650b wheel on my Prophet. The front was a huge improvement.

    How much clearance do you have at the seat stay under full compression? Any chance of contact with the Neo's?
    "If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world."
    J. R. R. Tolkien

  9. #9
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    Derby: Interesting and useful post. Thanks. Now that you mention it, I did notice the sluggishness more on the smoother trail portion that leads back to the technical chunk. Once we were in the chunk, I never really noticed it

    Med: I'm running the frame in the XC mode (though considering swapping to the slacker mode) and there seems to be plenty of space. I got the rear compressed pretty far a couple of times and didn't note any tire contact with the 2.3 Neos.

  10. #10
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    As a followup to Derby's post: Should I set more or less sag on the rear shock to increase "snappiness"? Currently, sag is about 20% in the rear.

  11. #11
    Old man on a bike
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby
    Quite different bike types. The Monk has a very high pivot suspension, very stiffening when pedaling, an efficient design for smoother trail. The Prophet has a medium high pivot, more compliant to sit and spin with better momentum through rougher trail, and still climb without squatting or bobbing terribly. But the lower pivot is not as snappy as a high pivot on smooth trail. For smooth trail an RP23 with medium propedal switched on could make the Prophet pedaling more similar to the Monk.
    Thanks, wasn't considering the bike differences. I assumed he could factor out differences in suspension type and we were concentrating on wheels more than anything, or was the Prophet new to you altogether, Blatant?

    FWIW the bikes I was "comparing" in my comment are a Santa Cruz Heckler (650b, NeoMoto 2.3, Sun EQ 27 rims, Sapim db, King) and Nomad (Timberwolf 2.5s, Mavic XM321s, DT Champs, King)...
    "...the people get the government they deserve..."
    suum quique

  12. #12
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    Yes, the Prophet is new to me.

    Uh, I don't know that I can factor out differences in suspension type, when both are old-school single pivot. I'm sure some folks are sensitive enough to suss out the differences between high single pivot and low single pivot. I'm not.

  13. #13
    www.derbyrims.com
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant
    As a followup to Derby's post: Should I set more or less sag on the rear shock to increase "snappiness"? Currently, sag is about 20% in the rear.
    Generally with most rear suspensions less rear sag is snappier, partly because it tilts the bike angles steeper and moves rider weight more forward over the pedals, and there is reduced squat and bob with each pedal stroke.

    But your 20% rear sag is pretty shallow already.

    Sliding the seat forward 1/4 to 1/2 inch and up slightly to keep your leg reach optimum should help gain snappier acceleration. In the pictures the seat is set back behind the post quite a bit. Try to make your handle bar reach similar when seated to what you like on the Monk, which may mean adjusting steer tube spacers to lower the bars if the seat is a little closer to the bars on the Prophet.

    It always takes a few rides to adjust to a different bike. And then experimenting with changing seat fit position, bar height, and small sag changes can help bring more comfort and performance.

    Hope it cools down for you. I find little joy riding when it's over 95 degrees.

    Like Bikinfoolferlife mentioned, give it some time...

  14. #14
    mtbr member
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    Did you turn off the Propedal when you set sag? That helps, 'cause the Propedal naturally resists your weight when setting sag with it on and you end up with lower then optimum pressure.

  15. #15
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    It's an Fox Float R.

  16. #16
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    Got it more dialed today and had a good ride. Until I pinch-flatted on a long down with a bunch of drops. Replaced the tube and then my pump broke. Had to limp out with about 10psi in my rear tire, just enough to hold the bead on.

    Bike felt much better today. Part of that was me being more fresh and the weather not so miserable.

    I think the Pike was the real problem. I had it dialed exactly the wrong way the other day and it was sinking into its travel too much and blowing off. Got the rebound dialed in properly and it felt like a new bike today.

    Much, much better. Again very intuitive. Easy to get your arse out over the tire and just let the bike go. I think it's probably going to be a keeper. Just need to get my tubeless system worked out.

  17. #17
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    Blatant - the Prophet is a very popular bike here in New England. A lot of guys I ride with here in CT have dropped theirs into the FR setting and love it. They claim very little to no adverse effects whlie climbing and the downs are that much more smile inducing! Give it a try. Can't hurt right? Easily switched back to XC mode if you don't like right?

    Cheers,

    Mark

  18. #18
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    Wanted to get it dialed before I do that. My only concern is pedal strikes on the big rocks we ride through here. I do like a tall bottom bracket. I may give it a whirl, though, just to try.

  19. #19
    My other ride is your mom
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    Blatant....nice build.....I've been contemplating a 650 for a while....I'm curious where in the valley you took it for a ride? As for your maiden voyage....I'm almost certain it was the heat, the lack of rest....and the fact that you were using tubes when you are used to ghetto tubeless. Every time I have to use tubes here....regardless of how I feel....they feel sluggish compared to ghetto.

    I'm not taking away from others comments on new fit though....that most certainly plays a part as well. If you want to roll Hawes anytime soon with your new ride....give me a holler.




  20. #20
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    Hey, man. I went out to PMP for the initial run, down Fenceline from 40th/Shea, around the 220 loops, Fenceline tech, then back.

    Today I was going to do Hawes, but ended up going to SoMo for Javelina. Much more dialed today after fiddling with the Pike.

  21. #21
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    Bike felt fully dialed on today's run. Really happy with the performance. The Prophet turned out to be a really nice frame. I've had a bunch of different Fox shocks in the past. This low-end R is the plushest I've had, despite running at about 20% sag.

    I want to make a grand sweeping statement about 650b wheel size, but I'm tired. I guess I'll echo what others have said. The size seems to combine the benefits of 29ers on a slightly more maneuverable scale.

    The obvious weakness is the relative lack of tire and rim choice. The Sun rims I got seem strong enough, but were a bear to get sealed up tubeless. Here in AZ, tubes isn't really an option in my experience. It took me a couple of hours with several layers of wrapping and an air compressor to finally get the ghetto tubeless to take.

    What I'd like to see: A Stan's Flow rim in 650b.

  22. #22
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    Bike is still doing well. I experimented today with the FR setting on the frame. It knocked 1/2 inch off my BB height (unsagged) and I really like how it slacked out the front. However, the shock rides really low in its travel in this setting and with a 650b wheel the tire rubs the back end of the front der. at the bottom of the travel.

  23. #23
    T.W.O.
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    Sick bike!!

    Blatant, did you have to limit the travel on the prophet or it ran as is with 140mm in the rear travel, thanks.

  24. #24
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    Full travel, no mods necessary.

    Should mention that I swapped back to 26-inch wheels on that bike. For whatever reason, 650b ultimately wasn't for me. I also have a 29er.

    For me, the 27.5 size was really a 'tweener. It didn't do as well on the technical climbs or have the rollover of my 29er and wasn't as snappy and flickable as a 26er. Obviously some folks love the size and that's great.

  25. #25
    Killer of Chains
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    In hindsight I should have taken your trade while it was offered. I ended up getting a fair price for my Prophet and now, long and behold, I'm in the market for a 29er.

  26. #26
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    Hey I was wondering if the pike comes in contact with the frame if turned all the way around?... Mine does so I have to route the cables on the sides of the downtube with a ziptie... if i didn't and wrecked and the wheel spun around it would rip all my brake and shifting cables out or something nice like that! on the u-turn side it clears as long as I have the little flip switch flipped towards the headtube. Is This a problem for you too? do they have spacers for this? the headset presses on the fork and if you put a spacer under it it won't reach the bigger spot on the fork... hard to explain. thanks!

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