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  1. #1
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    The + (Plus, Fattie) rage, input request

    It is time for a new mtn bike, after 16 years on my Superlight. LOL

    My initial desire was a 29'r. But, the more I read, the more I leaned toward the 27.5. Then, the more I read, the more I have leaned toward the + version of these bikes.

    I don't really get a chance to ride bikes, other than a parking lot, which doesn't give much input.

    What I am looking for is a more comfortable, less XC cockpit than my Superlight, more compliant susp, but not squishy. Not a downhiller, but will go fast where I can. I ride primarily in the foothills and mtn's of NC, cross country type terrain primarily.

    I have been eyeing the Santa Cruz 5010, Tallboy 27.5+, and Scott Spark 27.5+

    I guess what I am asking is for input on the 27.5 bikes vs. 27.5 +.

  2. #2
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    You need to ride a plus bike first. Don't just buy into the hype. I personally hate them, worst ride I've ever experienced.
    The low pressure give it such a vague ride.
    OG Ripley v2

  3. #3
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    I rode all three today, but different bikes, different sizes. I didn't mind the + tires. They did smooth out the ride, but I could probably achieve the same thing with susp adjustments.

    I liked the climbing and speed of the 29's, but the handling of the 27.5's.

    Ugh.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmoss View Post
    I rode all three today, but different bikes, different sizes. I didn't mind the + tires. They did smooth out the ride, but I could probably achieve the same thing with susp adjustments.

    I liked the climbing and speed of the 29's, but the handling of the 27.5's.

    Ugh.
    Again just personally, but smoothing out the trail is why suspension was added, you don't need a plus tire to do that. You also lose the pop off stuff like small rocks or roots.
    OG Ripley v2

  5. #5
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    tire is added susp. I ride dirty bikes as well, and rear trials tires act in a similar if not same fashion. Not stating it is better or worse, just a fact. I don't spend a lot of time looking for stuff to bunny hop off of. I am more a go fast where I can, cross country rider.

    Like you said, though, not sure if I want the plus as my all the time bike. lighter tires can be had, and 29 wheels weigh more, but I think the std 27.5 size will do all I want. I have been doing it on 26" for 15 years, so I think it will suffice.

    Seems the 5010 fits pretty well...

  6. #6
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    I really like the 2.8 plus tires, they are a little slower on the climbs and take a little more to get them up to speed but once rolling they keep on........

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmoss View Post
    tire is added susp. I ride dirty bikes as well, and rear trials tires act in a similar if not same fashion. Not stating it is better or worse, just a fact. I don't spend a lot of time looking for stuff to bunny hop off of. I am more a go fast where I can, cross country rider.

    Like you said, though, not sure if I want the plus as my all the time bike. lighter tires can be had, and 29 wheels weigh more, but I think the std 27.5 size will do all I want. I have been doing it on 26" for 15 years, so I think it will suffice.

    Seems the 5010 fits pretty well...
    If you're a go fast XC type, I would test ride a few of the newer 29ers. If that was my primary riding style, I'd still be on one.
    OG Ripley v2

  8. #8
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    I've got both. A Banshee Spitfire and a Stumpjumper 6fattie (GF's). I've spent enough time on the 6fattie to know that it's really not for me. IMO, the best attributes of the plus tire is also its worst enemy.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmoss View Post
    I rode all three today, but different bikes, different sizes. I didn't mind the + tires. They did smooth out the ride, but I could probably achieve the same thing with susp adjustments.

    I liked the climbing and speed of the 29's, but the handling of the 27.5's.

    Ugh.
    I have a 29er I like and a 140 mm bike I like.

    They're not the same bike.

    For me, lots of travel and 29" wheels in the same bike are a bit much. I also didn't like the Stumpjumper 6fattie I demoed but still wonder about B+ hardtails.

    If you want a go-fast XC bike, own it - I love my 100 mm FS 29er on climbing and rolling trails.
    "Don't buy upgrades; ride up grades." -Eddy Merckx

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    You're leaving out 29+. A Trek Stache likely has enough compliance so you can forget rear suspension completely. Yes you'll lose some trail feel. But you'll roll over a lot more and the short 420 chainstays make for fun quick handling.

    Cam McCaul and the 29+ Challenge - Mountain Biking Videos - Vital MTB

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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    If you're a go fast XC type, I would test ride a few of the newer 29ers. If that was my primary riding style, I'd still be on one.
    Yup!!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmoss View Post
    I rode all three today, but different bikes, different sizes. I didn't mind the + tires. They did smooth out the ride, but I could probably achieve the same thing with susp adjustments.

    I liked the climbing and speed of the 29's, but the handling of the 27.5's.
    P L U S is real (no hype) yes it performs that well. Seek out a 27.5 that has the ability to go + and you'll thank me. A 2nd wheelset to convert as opposed to another bike is money!! PSI takes a bit of finesse to dial in for terrain and your style but once there yer golden with PLUS.

  13. #13
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    For the riding you're describing, you really need to look at some of the modern 29ers out there, they are ideal for what you describe and a lot them can fit B+ if you decide you want to give it a go. Something along the lines of the Banshee Phantom, Kona Process 111, Yeti SB4.5C, Santa Cruz Tallboy, would really work well for your riding.

    For a rigid or HT, nothing beats PLUS, definitely give one a go, they're super fun and the big tyres do help take a lot of the harshness out.

    Quote Originally Posted by AndrwSwitch View Post
    I have a 29er I like and a 140 mm bike I like.They're not the same bike.
    For me, lots of travel and 29" wheels in the same bike are a bit much. I also didn't like the Stumpjumper 6fattie I demoed but still wonder about B+ hardtails.

    If you want a go-fast XC bike, own it - I love my 100 mm FS 29er on climbing and rolling trails.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    If you're a go fast XC type, I would test ride a few of the newer 29ers. If that was my primary riding style, I'd still be on one.
    I like to go fast when the terrain allows it, but I am not a screamer. I am recovering/rehabbing from a herniated disc that damaged the nerves on my right side, affecting my leg strength. Legs have never been strong for my body size. That is one reason I like the 29. However, I do like the more nimble feel the smaller tires provide. so, it is a tough choice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrwSwitch View Post
    I have a 29er I like and a 140 mm bike I like.

    They're not the same bike.

    For me, lots of travel and 29" wheels in the same bike are a bit much. I also didn't like the Stumpjumper 6fattie I demoed but still wonder about B+ hardtails.

    If you want a go-fast XC bike, own it - I love my 100 mm FS 29er on climbing and rolling trails.
    I want a comfortable XC bike if that exists. haha

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    Quote Originally Posted by eb1888 View Post
    You're leaving out 29+. A Trek Stache likely has enough compliance so you can forget rear suspension completely. Yes you'll lose some trail feel. But you'll roll over a lot more and the short 420 chainstays make for fun quick handling.

    Cam McCaul and the 29+ Challenge - Mountain Biking Videos - Vital MTB
    47 yr old, degenerative disc, low back issues/pain, my hardtail days are over.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    P L U S is real (no hype) yes it performs that well. Seek out a 27.5 that has the ability to go + and you'll thank me. A 2nd wheelset to convert as opposed to another bike is money!! PSI takes a bit of finesse to dial in for terrain and your style but once there yer golden with PLUS.
    It's only real for those that like it, otherwise it's all hype because it sucks. Hell my Mojo3 can take plus WITHOUT an expensive set wheelset and I won't ride them.

    Jesus what is it with the plus crowd that thinks it's the end all be all for everyone.
    OG Ripley v2

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmoss View Post
    I like to go fast when the terrain allows it, but I am not a screamer. I am recovering/rehabbing from a herniated disc that damaged the nerves on my right side, affecting my leg strength. Legs have never been strong for my body size. That is one reason I like the 29. However, I do like the more nimble feel the smaller tires provide. so, it is a tough choice.
    There are some very nimble 29er's out there. Tallboys, can't comment on the 3 because of the Geo changes, but my TBc was very nimble. Ibis Ripley original geo. Devinci Atlas if you can find one still. There are more, these are ones I've ridden.

    I went back to a 27.5, but that's because I still ride like I did on a BMX bike. I look to pop off anything I see, it's not just about speed to me. That's why plus is horrible to me.
    OG Ripley v2

  19. #19
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    I'm 64 and ride in the mountains of Utah - mostly above 7000 feet. A + bike doesn't make any sense for me. Everyone has to assess their own needs though. If it's in the budget, you could get a 29er that can take 27.5+ tires. I suspect the 29er would be perfect for your conditions and that you probably wouldn't get much use out of the +, but at least you'd have the option.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmoss View Post
    I want a comfortable XC bike if that exists. haha
    Of course it does.

    Get a FS XC 29er that's the right size for you. Put a saddle you like on it. Dial in the fit for your flexibility, core strength and fitness, not someone else's. I think a lot of people go wrong at this step. Use suspension and tire pressures that give you a smooth ride. A lot of people insist on setting their bikes up too firm and a lot of bikes used to ship with really narrow tires, though less so lately.

    I had no problem sticking 2.4" tires on my XC bike for last season: with a low, dense tread, they still roll really well but the grip is great. They weren't really any smoother than the 2.25s I'd had on before but they also had a lot more flat protection than those tires. I can't see using 2.1s on a mountain bike again unless I also weigh under 140 lb again, though.
    "Don't buy upgrades; ride up grades." -Eddy Merckx

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSU Alum View Post
    I'm 64 and ride in the mountains of Utah - mostly above 7000 feet. A + bike doesn't make any sense for me. Everyone has to assess their own needs though. If it's in the budget, you could get a 29er that can take 27.5+ tires. I suspect the 29er would be perfect for your conditions and that you probably wouldn't get much use out of the +, but at least you'd have the option.
    Can you elaborate and why it does not fit your needs?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    P L U S is real (no hype) yes it performs that well. Seek out a 27.5 that has the ability to go + and you'll thank me. A 2nd wheelset to convert as opposed to another bike is money!! PSI takes a bit of finesse to dial in for terrain and your style but once there yer golden with PLUS.
    I respectfully disagree, my local shop let me have a Specialized Fuze to ride while they were still fixing my primary steed at the time. I got 3 good rides on it, was it fun? Yes. Was it more fun than my SC Highball or Blur LT? No. It was very capable and blew through most trail chatter (roots, rocks) and steep climbs. My issue was that it felt slow and sluggish to me. I like fast, agile and flickable and being challenged as an Mtber. I believe part of the intrigue and hype of PLUS is that allows for less skilled riders (no offense intended) To ride more terrain.

    Just my opinion, with that said. Buy what is best for you and your preferences. I noticed you're coming off a Superlight, modern SC bikes will not dissapont. Also, don't let some shop tell you " you don't need bike x or y".

    Btw, the 5010 is the everything it is hyped to be...

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2ndChance View Post
    I respectfully disagree, my local shop let me have a Specialized Fuze to ride while they were still fixing my primary steed at the time. I got 3 good rides on it, was it fun? Yes. Was it more fun than my SC Highball or Blur LT? No. It was very capable and blew through most trail chatter (roots, rocks) and steep climbs. My issue was that it felt slow and sluggish to me. I like fast, agile and flickable and being challenged as an Mtber. I believe part of the intrigue and hype of PLUS is that allows for less skilled riders (no offense intended) To ride more terrain.

    Just my opinion, with that said. Buy what is best for you and your preferences. I noticed you're coming off a Superlight, modern SC bikes will not dissapont. Also, don't let some shop tell you " you don't need bike x or y".

    Btw, the 5010 is the everything it is hyped to be...
    I saw a pic online that it won bike of the year in some mag or something. I am leaning heavily in that direction now. I think I can live without the + tires. I am used to 2.1 for cripes sake. hahaha

    I also think the + tires would be a cool 2nd bike, hardtail, to just play on.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmoss View Post
    I saw a pic online that it won bike of the year in some mag or something. I am leaning heavily in that direction now. I think I can live without the + tires. I am used to 2.1 for cripes sake. hahaha

    I also think the + tires would be a cool 2nd bike, hardtail, to just play on.
    If you're curious, I agree with the handful of others who recommend a 29er that can take 27.5+. Go 29 if you want a quicker, more xc type ride. Go + if you want a bike with more traction and can can haul through the chunder. There are a ton of bikes out there now that are built with this capability and it makes a lot of sense.

    As a consumer, you can have multiple bikes without buying a bunch of bikes - just multiple wheelsets, and you can change the bike pretty drastically. As a manufacturer, you reduce overhead because you can produce a single frame and sell different bikes just based on a few component changes.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmoss View Post
    It is time for a new mtn bike, after 16 years on my Superlight. LOL
    What I am looking for is a more comfortable, less XC cockpit than my Superlight, more compliant susp, but not squishy. I ride primarily in the foothills and mtn's of NC, cross country type terrain primarily.

    I have been eyeing the Santa Cruz 5010, Tallboy 27.5+, and Scott Spark 27.5+

    I guess what I am asking is for input on the 27.5 bikes vs. 27.5 +.
    Ain't it great to see all the bikes we have to choose from? It's hell to decide, but fun to shop. When I replaced my old SC Blur I wanted something built tuff, and was made for tight twisty trails. If you are tall (5'10" or more) you may prefer one of the 29rs like Hightower 140 or Kona 111. I wanted 27.5 and almost bought the 5010. Ride it and you will love that little trail rocket. I choose the Kona 134 cause I wanted to get away from the VPP links. You may want to go with VPP since it's new to you.
    I agree w/ those saying forget + tires. Tried a couple of +bikes, they don't make the trail better at all. Enjoy this hunt now because after you buy all you're gona do is love the new bike. New bikes make our old trails even more awesome.
    oops I wasn't clipped in

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    If you're curious, I agree with the handful of others who recommend a 29er that can take 27.5+. Go 29 if you want a quicker, more xc type ride. Go + if you want a bike with more traction and can can haul through the chunder. There are a ton of bikes out there now that are built with this capability and it makes a lot of sense.

    As a consumer, you can have multiple bikes without buying a bunch of bikes - just multiple wheelsets, and you can change the bike pretty drastically. As a manufacturer, you reduce overhead because you can produce a single frame and sell different bikes just based on a few component changes.
    The problem with that is I prefer the 27.5 over the 29, in the way it changes direction, turns, etc. Believe me, I have given it a lot of thought, but I think once I get a bike, I will have a hard time justifying spending the coin for another set of wheels, when I have higher priorities in life to spend on. lol I realize I can run a std 27.5 on a bike like that too, but then the geometry gets all whacky. ?

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmoss View Post
    The problem with that is I prefer the 27.5 over the 29, in the way it changes direction, turns, etc. Believe me, I have given it a lot of thought, but I think once I get a bike, I will have a hard time justifying spending the coin for another set of wheels, when I have higher priorities in life to spend on. lol I realize I can run a std 27.5 on a bike like that too, but then the geometry gets all whacky. ?
    I'm with ya on this that's why I have an Ibis Mojo 3. I really tried to like 29ers and just couldn't. I spent last summer on a Rocky Mountain Thunderbolt BC and thought it was a real hoot but I was missing some of the rollover of the 29ers but man the bike was fun in the air and the tight twisty stuff. This year I went with the M3 basically because it was built around the 27.5 platform yet it fits 2.8's so I can run either 27.5 2.3 up to 2.8's. My friends were all raving about the plus bikes so I wanted to give it a go and built the bike up right away with 2.8 Rocket Rons and have not had the desire to change them out for smaller tires. I like that they have better role over than the 27.5 and carry speed great as well as soak up some trail chatter that is hard on these old bones. I did try a few 3.0 plus bikes and didn't care for them at all but then again that's basically a fat 29er (about the diameter anyways) I do admit on long climbs the 2.8's are a little slower but the traction in awesome and they help to keep me upright most of the time. I don't have a problem popping off of every little rock or root if I want to but I run a little higher pressure and I don't believe they make the trail feel dead at all. I might try out some 2.6 tires just for sh!ts and giggles but I don't want to loose that role over either.

    With all that being said unless speed is top on your list maybe a frame that can fit a wide range of 27.5 tires (up to 2.8's) might be worth checking out.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    I'm with ya on this that's why I have an Ibis Mojo 3. I really tried to like 29ers and just couldn't. I spent last summer on a Rocky Mountain Thunderbolt BC and thought it was a real hoot but I was missing some of the rollover of the 29ers but man the bike was fun in the air and the tight twisty stuff. This year I went with the M3 basically because it was built around the 27.5 platform yet it fits 2.8's so I can run either 27.5 2.3 up to 2.8's. My friends were all raving about the plus bikes so I wanted to give it a go and built the bike up right away with 2.8 Rocket Rons and have not had the desire to change them out for smaller tires. I like that they have better role over than the 27.5 and carry speed great as well as soak up some trail chatter that is hard on these old bones. I did try a few 3.0 plus bikes and didn't care for them at all but then again that's basically a fat 29er (about the diameter anyways) I do admit on long climbs the 2.8's are a little slower but the traction in awesome and they help to keep me upright most of the time. I don't have a problem popping off of every little rock or root if I want to but I run a little higher pressure and I don't believe they make the trail feel dead at all. I might try out some 2.6 tires just for sh!ts and giggles but I don't want to loose that role over either.

    With all that being said unless speed is top on your list maybe a frame that can fit a wide range of 27.5 tires (up to 2.8's) might be worth checking out.
    Interesting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gmoss View Post
    Interesting.
    And one wheelset

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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    And one wheelset
    Yeah, but from what I see, it doesn't come with wide enough wheels to make the 2.8's work as they should. Just more confirmation the 27.5 will be fine for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gmoss View Post
    Yeah, but from what I see, it doesn't come with wide enough wheels to make the 2.8's work as they should. Just more confirmation the 27.5 will be fine for me.
    Not correct imho 31-35mm internal width rim is perfect for 2.8's. I never once got done with a ride and said man I wish I had wider rims. Heck Spesh is running 29I rims with 3.0's. One recommendation is stop reading so much and start test riding if possible

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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee View Post
    Not correct imho 31-35mm internal width rim is perfect for 2.8's. I never once got done with a ride and said man I wish I had wider rims. Heck Spesh is running 29I rims with 3.0's. One recommendation is stop reading so much and start test riding if possible
    If it was that easy, I would not be here. Lol

    There will be a bike o rama here in a few weeks, that would allow me to ride different bikes, but even then, set up is so personal. If I have not gotten anything by then, I will likely go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gmoss View Post
    If it was that easy, I would not be here. Lol

    There will be a bike o rama here in a few weeks, that would allow me to ride different bikes, but even then, set up is so personal. If I have not gotten anything by then, I will likely go.
    I here ya so many people have it made in the test ride department, me not so much unless it's a Trek, Spesh or Giant and then they don't stock em all anyways. I usually do like you are doing read, look at geo, and shoot from the hip. I also have a hard time test riding or riding other peoples bikes if the fit isn't just right.

    Oh and back to the rim width I would never go over 35mm wide for 2.8's. We have a bunch of people on 2.8's in my area on all different widths of rims and anything wider just seems to expose the sidewalls making them more prone to getting sliced.

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    We have no Ibis dealer around here, so stuck with online. My local SC dealer is giving me a deal that is hard to pass on.

    Riding the bikes yesterday really helped me. Parking lot tours don't tell much, so you are right, make a judgement call. Could pay $50 to demo one, umm, no thank you.

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    Not that it really makes a difference but my next picks would be a Yeti Sb5c, Sb5cplus, or a SC 5010 with 2.6" tires if they ever make it to market.

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    All these new wide tires, wide rims and different pressures where 1-2 psi makes a change. There are many possibilities for tuning. And we're just at the very beginning of this for sure. Some guys try one tire on one width rim at one pressure and they're finished...prematurely. Hey some things at least don't change. I'm finding the more I experiment the more performance impacts I see. Some work for my terrain and expand the range my bike works and how hard I can ride sections. That's part of the fun. I won't be stepping down to less.

  37. #37
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    Sounds like a pedaly trail bike.

    I was pretty impressed by a Yeti SB5 I rode recently.

    "My" brand has recently gone smaller wheel/longer travel with their XC platform. That would be the Kona Hei Hei Trail.

    I think the Specialized Camber and Trek Fuel EX can come with a 27.5" wheel too.
    "Don't buy upgrades; ride up grades." -Eddy Merckx

  38. #38
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    I have read through the thread so far.

    For the last 10 years I have mostly been riding fully rigid 26" single speeds, a rigid fat bike, and sometimes a 4" travel 26" FS bike. Last year I sold the old school FS, and bought 27+ 6Fattie.

    Before I bought the 27+ I demoed a lot of bikes on trails in Utah last year. While I was impressed with the Bronson and Pivot bikes, a plus bike called the Rocky Mountain Sherpa caught my attention. Even though the Sherpa had short travel FS it was a refreshing ride after all the 6" full squash.

    Since I ride rigid bikes a lot, my review might be skewed. Tires make it all possible. Plus sizes combined make a beautiful blend of the fat tire feel, the 29'er roll over, and if the frame has it, the long travel plushness. I would say it feels like cheating at times.

    I have a 29er wheelset for the 6Fattie in addition to the original one and I like the ride of both for different conditions. The bottom bracket is too low for my tastes in plus form, and that is a disappointment.

    Last week I rode a plus format High Tower all week. It was a blast. Compared to the 6 Fattie the High Tower had a better climbing platform when the trail was not very technical. But when things became more variable the sensitivity is better on the Horst link. But damn, both bikes can pedal strike too much if you aren't careful.

    So the 29er ride of the 6fattie is very good, but not outstanding.

    One thing for sure, I doubt if the 6Fattie is fastest in a race format application. It's better for long exploration over technical trails, even better over sandy fast DH with lots of rocks and ledges.

    I haven't ripped a sidewall...yet. I carry a light tube and some tire repair stuff.

    Anyway, to each their own. If it were down to one bike for all MTB for me it would be something like the Niner ROS with a good suspension fork on it.

  39. #39
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    I am not a fast downhiller at all, more of an XC/trail rider, and I could never go back to a smaller wheel than a 29er. I'd love to try a plus, but the more I think about it, the more I think a 29+ is the only way I would really enjoy. Oh, I'm 5'9", so not a big guy at all. 29 was a huge adjustment from 26, but after a few rides, I sold my 26ers, quickly.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmoss View Post
    Can you elaborate and why it does not fit your needs?
    I'm just not strong enough to drive a pair of 1+ kilogram, relatively high drag tires up to almost 10,000 feet. Especially when I'm riding with my 25 year old son! I wish I were. I can even tell the difference (or rather, the stop-watch can) between a 27.5x2.35" Nobby Nic Trailstar and a 27.5x2.25" Pacestar on the back. The latter being measurably faster even in technical conditions where you'd think a 2.35 would be an advantage. I'm on a light SB5c and feel the ride is pretty comfy, so I don't need the cushioning. I don't see a scenario in which I would be faster, more maneuverable or have more fun with a 27.5+ Vs. my current 27.5. There are a few times in Moab that I like having the 2.35 on the back, but not many.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSU Alum View Post
    I'm just not strong enough to drive a pair of 1+ kilogram, relatively high drag tires up to almost 10,000 feet. Especially when I'm riding with my 25 year old son! I wish I were. I can even tell the difference (or rather, the stop-watch can) between a 27.5x2.35" Nobby Nic Trailstar and a 27.5x2.25" Pacestar on the back. The latter being measurably faster even in technical conditions where you'd think a 2.35 would be an advantage. I'm on a light SB5c and feel the ride is pretty comfy, so I don't need the cushioning. I don't see a scenario in which I would be faster, more maneuverable or have more fun with a 27.5+ Vs. my current 27.5. There are a few times in Moab that I like having the 2.35 on the back, but not many.
    Gotcha. Same here and felt the difference when we used to run the 1.95 tires vs. the 2.1.

    I appreciate all the input. I guess I can start a different thread now since I have pretty much abandoned the plus revolution for now. I did not realize they were so new to the market.

  42. #42
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    Just say "no" to creating a million threads on the same topic.
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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrwSwitch View Post
    Just say "no" to creating a million threads on the same topic.
    I didn't say anything about it being the same topic. I have nothing else to inquire about on the plus bikes, so my interest in this thread is done.

    If I have other questions, I will start another thread. This isn't my first rodeo with forums. Just because I have not partaken in this forum much doesn't mean I don't know what is going on.

    Thanks to all. : )

  44. #44
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    It might not be the topic you started with, but that's where where are now.
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  45. #45
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    I think at the end of the day you have to decide what you are going to wish you had tried the most...

    It sounds like you will always be hung up on 27.5, and even if you buy a versatile bike that accepts many tire/wheel/hub sizes and widths....you are going to buy the bike and ride it, as-is. For the type of riding you suggest that you like, and 29 is going to be supreme...but you don't want that and shouldn't buy a bike that you think you don't want. At the end of the day, what's in your head is FAR more likely to affect your overall satisfaction than the actual performance of the bike.

    All that said, the latest rendition of the Pivot 429SL or a 429 trail 29/27.5+ sounds right in line with the best gun for the hunt. But to each their own.


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  46. #46
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    Sounds like you should get a 29er FS. My last bike was a 2011 29er and it was awesome, and a game changer for me. The new crop of 29er FS bikes look really dialed and capable. If you go the 29 route, try some 29-30mm wheels such as stans flow , and put some Schwalbe Hans Dampf tires on em. You will have a nice high volume tire (wider than any other i tried), and on a 29er, it hits the sweet spot for forgiving traction, speed, and predictability.... Keep in mind, 6fattie's are still new and tires are exspensive and from what i hear not very tough yet.

  47. #47
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    Tested the Stumpy 6Fattie Comp last year and I have to say it was really fun. I ride primarily in Eastern PA, so lots of roots and loose rocks, plenty of climbing, etc. Yes, this bike climbs really well. Also tested the Scott Genius (160 travel version) with 27.5 tires, and agree with the general consensus that the 27.5 was faster overall, but just was not as fun. the 6fattie can plow through rocky/loose downhills, hold super tight to berms (just dial in the tire pressure first) and get in the air surprisingly well for a composite bike with big tires (31 - 32 lbs?) Another way to put it in perspective - The Scott was a full carbon fiber, $6k bike. The 6Fattie was an aluminum, low to mid spec'd machine, retailing at $3k. And it was more fun! If you rip and send everything like big drops and are all about going super fast, or if you are an expert rider, I'd say go with 27.5 or a LT 29er. If you are honest with yourself, an intermediate rider, and want to just get out on the trails and have a ton of fun, go with the + bike. Also, +1 to all comments that the 2.8 tires feel like a great middle ground. Just my 2 cents.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowwcold55 View Post
    Tested the Stumpy 6Fattie Comp last year and I have to say it was really fun. I ride primarily in Eastern PA, so lots of roots and loose rocks, plenty of climbing, etc. Yes, this bike climbs really well. Also tested the Scott Genius (160 travel version) with 27.5 tires, and agree with the general consensus that the 27.5 was faster overall, but just was not as fun. the 6fattie can plow through rocky/loose downhills, hold super tight to berms (just dial in the tire pressure first) and get in the air surprisingly well for a composite bike with big tires (31 - 32 lbs?) Another way to put it in perspective - The Scott was a full carbon fiber, $6k bike. The 6Fattie was an aluminum, low to mid spec'd machine, retailing at $3k. And it was more fun! If you rip and send everything like big drops and are all about going super fast, or if you are an expert rider, I'd say go with 27.5 or a LT 29er. If you are honest with yourself, an intermediate rider, and want to just get out on the trails and have a ton of fun, go with the + bike. Also, +1 to all comments that the 2.8 tires feel like a great middle ground. Just my 2 cents.
    I find it funny that you're comparing a 160mm travel bike with a 135mm travel bike and think it's just the tires. I valid comparison is more like riding a Mojo 3 with both sets- exact same bike and then it's only the tires.
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  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    I find it funny that you're comparing a 160mm travel bike with a 135mm travel bike and think it's just the tires. I valid comparison is more like riding a Mojo 3 with both sets- exact same bike and then it's only the tires.
    True, the travel is WAY different. However, the stumpy is designed to perform like a 150mm travel bike due to the tires. Sure, it's 135mm in the back, but you feel like you have a bunch more. It felt as plush as the bigger bike. My point with my post is, the +bikes are super fun. If you would feel better, I can compare it to my 26' Marin XM7, which is a super flickable and fun bike, but lacks the fun factor of the fatty. And like I said, it depends on how you ride. Sounds like the OP wants to pedal, have some fun, and have a do-it-all bike, which I think the + bikes do perfectly. Might not be as fast, but fun doesn't always equal speed.

  50. #50
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    For me, the 27.5 with 135 mm travel is going to feel like a + bike compared to what I have been on. LOL So, fun factor with be there.

    I also like simple, and lighter feeling.

    Was really considering a Scott Genius 730, 2016 model for a steal, but the simplicity of the 5010 has made my decision easier. Dropper post, remote for the fork and shock make the cockpit busy. The Scott is definitely lighter, but I feel more pedal feedback thru the susp than I do with the SC.

    Again, this is going OT, and I have made up my mind that the + revolution needs to evolve more before I jump on.

  51. #51
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    Demoed a lot of bikes this year from 5k to 9k Sc 5010 with enve's. 27.5s and 29ers in Fruita. The Rocky Mountain thunderbolt BC is the bike I want when ever I can afford it. The feeling it gave me was 24hour endurance races to slowing the rebound down and putting a burlier front tire for the whole enchilada.

  52. #52
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    can ride two different trails and one might show the Plus bike to be VASTLY superior and then on the other trail the Plus bike is a disaster. I have ridden both kinds of trails and Plus bikes and non-plus XC bike. Because of the nature of most of the trails here, I am now an owner of 2 new Plus bikes purchased in the last month, it really scratches the itch I didn't know I had for 30 years, LOL.

    But I can surely see how some people's terrain is not suited to it at all. I would not use Plus bike for an XC race, a buff trail, nor maybe not at a bike park or certain sketchy freeride places. On the flat and buff trails, the tires make it feel like the brakes are on. However on very steep climbs, loose climbs rock gardens and such it feels like the bike a is wayy faster and easier and smoother than any XC bike. Really nice how the front wheel w 27.5x3.0 NobbyNicTrailstar isn't being kicked off its line all the time like I found using 26x2.4 3C Minion tires. Some top Enduro racers are demonstrating success with Plus bike tires, and that is closer to the kind of riding I am doing. Lots of short really steep rocky stuff that had me hikeabiking for 16 years on various other bikes, but I clean on the Plus bike.

    However I have yet to ride in the wet PNW conditions yet, and in the sandy AZ desert - both places I do the bulk of my riding. So far I am LOVING the plus bike (esp the FS one). but will report back once the rain hits.

  53. #53
    Lone Wolf
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    My Bike, 27.5 Spark
    My rims, 25mm Internal
    My Tires, A nice chunky 27.5 x 2.35" wide out front and a 2.25" wide out back.
    ME 180 In gear
    My P.S.I.s,, In the wet 25 rear/23 front,, In the dry 28 rear/25 front,
    Much lower and I get squirm,
    Tubeless I am...

    Have been on three different plus bikes, they are,,, wait for it,,,,,,plush..

    I have no traction problems and now see no need for the extra heavy wheel/tire combo's of the plus sizes.

    But I'd like my next bike to be a boost bike,,options, running a 29er wheel set,,cool. I like options
    “I seek only the Flow”,
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  54. #54
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    "But I'd like my next bike to be a boost bike,,options, running a 29er wheel set,,cool. I like options."

    That statement is a good reason for a plus bike.

    Today I rode my 6Fattie with the 29 wheels on and it was great. However there were quite a few sections that the 27+ version would have been faster. I have to say having the two wheelsets is like having two bikes in one.

    One potentially serious drawback to plus bikes is that some riders may get calf rub on the seat stay. That needs to be checked out.

    Another configuration that may be desirable is flip chip to change the geometry. My bike doesn't have this. The forum for the 6Fattie shows a few riders changing shocks and bottombrackets with adapters, shorter cranks, longer shocks, and what have you to raise the BB.

    Oh I am satisfied though. I like how easy it is to simply change the wheels and go ride. I put rotors and cassette on both wheels. But the issue of wearing drivetrains things out in concert may be an issue in the future.

    Slightly related, I am probably going to get a second 29 wheelset for my fat bike. I think this will in effect provide another bike for the stable. In the past I hadn't thought of it.

    Today I talked to a guy on the trail who had a new Stumpjumper Pro 29 bike. It was beautiful. While he bought his bike as a 29 it now will accommodate 27+.

    It had the new Eagle group on it as well. Slick.

    My bike was a pound heavier, but I was faster because I was stronger. Now I am not in great shape right now at all, so I am not boasting. All I mean is, a pound isn't going to kill us, as long as it is not a race situation.

    Now if you are looking to get KOMs, a light 29 bike is the ticket.

  55. #55
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    I would highly suggest you make your 29er wheelset on rims that are at least 35mm wide internally, preferably wider and run 29+, especially if your fattie is rigid. You can still run 2.5" 29er tyres on 40mm IW rims, actually they feel like you have velcro cornering, but just have to watch out in rocky area for the possibility of damaging the rims because the tyre casing won't be offering so much support on such wide rims - I ran my On One Chunky Monkey 2.4" and Smorgasbord 2.25" on my Velocity Dually 45 wheelset and they were amazing, could not believe the change having the sidewall support 39mm IW rims give.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Burns
    Slightly related, I am probably going to get a second 29 wheelset for my fat bike. I think this will in effect provide another bike for the stable. In the past I hadn't thought of it.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCsaltchucker View Post

    But I can surely see how some people's terrain is not suited to it at all. I would not use Plus bike for an XC race, a buff trail, nor maybe not at a bike park or certain sketchy freeride places. On the flat and buff trails, the tires make it feel like the brakes are on. However on very steep climbs, loose climbs rock gardens and such it feels like the bike a is wayy faster and easier and smoother than any XC bike. Really nice how the front wheel w 27.5x3.0 NobbyNicTrailstar isn't being kicked off its line all the time like I found using 26x2.4 3C Minion tires. Some top Enduro racers are demonstrating success with Plus bike tires, and that is closer to the kind of riding I am doing. Lots of short really steep rocky stuff that had me hikeabiking for 16 years on various other bikes, but I clean on the Plus bike.

    However I have yet to ride in the wet PNW conditions yet, and in the sandy AZ desert - both places I do the bulk of my riding. So far I am LOVING the plus bike (esp the FS one). but will report back once the rain hits.
    Interesting, and informative. I love the idea of not getting bounced around in techy terrain at speed, but I am curious how that setup would feel in other situations. I haven't ridden a + bike yet but will demo some next year for fun. If it really feels more sluggish and harder to pop around I doubt it will be on my radar, but some people are satisfied with the responsiveness of theirs. I love technical riding at varying speeds, added traction sounds fun (although I relish the challenge on the tires I have). I could see a plus size being a nice second bike.

  57. #57
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    update from this weekend: the PNW rains have arrived and suddenly the trails are completely different.

    and it is not looking good for our Plus bike tires!

    Had a good windstorm and that soaked things pretty well. We do not have real mud here, just pine needle loam, so it is not a problem with traction on dirt. But it is a problem with traction on the billion wet roots and mossy rocks.

    For the last few years we've been running Maxxis Minium DH Super Tacky or Maxx Grip tires in 26" x 2.4 size. Those tacky tires really help grab the rocks and roots, and the side blocks help carve the corners too. Now I knew when I bought this Plus bike that the wimpy Chronicles would be no match, so I upped to the Nobby Nic 3.0 Trailstars, hoping for more wet traction. My wife using the stock Specialized 3.0 whatever with wimpy wee knobs. Result: she is sliding all over, crashing a lot too. I am half way there with the Trailstar Nics. Nowhere near the cornering grab, and getting a bit more slip on rocks and roots than I am used to. I did a proper fast steep Enduro trail today and the bike was not carving near as well as my hardtail did last year there. because tires.

    So our plan is to go with the soon to be released Maxxis Minion DHF 27.5+ x 2.8 in Maxx Terra. Hopefully the slightly smaller size, with proven knob pattern and decent tackiness with get us what we're looking for. However ... waiting for a new tire model to reach market could cost us some broken limbs, LOL. Minion DHF Plus | Maxxis Tires USA

    if that tire doesn't solve it, I can see a 29er wheelset in my future just for winter wet riding. nice having the option to run both sizes on one bike. and yes I still really loved the Plus tires in the dry and won't go back to sub 2.8 for dry conditions.

  58. #58
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    Check about, fairly certain you can find them (Minions) from distributors over in AUS and Europe.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  59. #59
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    I started riding the Intense ACV this weekend and was impressed with the traction. It comes stock with Rekon/Ikon 2.8 tires. It didn't have the floaty feeling I expected from a plus bike. It felt solid,grounded and accurate. It was a total contrast to my Spider 275c which feels crazy fast on flats and smooth ground when the ACV felt slower. Yet on technical terrain and rough chunky downhill it was definitely smoother and faster. Perceptions being what they are I cannot say one bike is truly faster than the other without timing them but that was what I felt.

    I'm going to try a DHF 2.8 up front and stick the Rekon in the rear for winter and see how it compares.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Check about, fairly certain you can find them (Minions) from distributors over in AUS and Europe.
    any dealer you might suggest? tried the usual suspects, chainreaction, bikediscount.de, wiggle, jenson, univeral, performance ... some have the DHF plus, but hard to find in 3C Maxx Terra for grip in wet

  61. #61
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    I have found that for shredding I like regular tires, maybe even the narrower ones like Maxxis 2.3" tires. They dig in and properly use the side knobs. The lower weight rear also makes it easier to spin up while coming out of turns. Things get too sketchy with larger volume tires and I start bouncing over chunk and losing steering ability as I approach turns. Also, on slacker bikes that require more front weighting in turns, wider plus tires will drift more if not enough weight is pressed forward and washouts happen much easier in that case.

    For cruising and normal recreational trail riding, even if its aggressive terrain, then plus tires are great. They're comfy and give great braking grip which helps prevent endo's as well as sketchy rear lockup while pointed down steep stuff.

  62. #62
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    Broke my Lenz 29er so rode my friends Trance 27.5 and then lucked into a Mojo 27.5+
    Same tires - Nobby Nics.
    I was not all googly about the plus thing. Just ended up with it and figured I'd try it. The mojo KILLS the Trance and the 6-7 other bikes I've owned.
    Just kills them dead.
    plus tires, dialed geo and great suspension - get that combo

  63. #63
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    I've been riding 27.5 + tires for the past 6 months. I'm going back. I've tried really hard to like it but I just don't. don't get me wrong there are definitely some benefits and things I like. You can roll over anything. Feels like a monster truck on technical climbs. They also feel super fast when just rolling down a trail, I'm always impressed with how fast they roll. But that's about the end of the benefits. They just don't feel super stable when cranking downhill through corners or even through technical sections. I feel like I can't push my bike to it's full potential. The tire pressure game sucks with these tires. There is no ideal pressure that works for climbing and descending. It's either too high to be sticky while climbing or too low to push it on rocky downhills. And so.many.flats. I live in Colorado, it's pretty rocky here but I've gotten 6 flats in the past 3 weeks. All different spots on the same tire. And today I cracked my rim when my tire exploded on a pretty routine rock drop (thankfully nox has an amazing warranty.) But I'm over it. I'm switching back to a smaller tire. I think there are a lot of people who would really enjoy + tires though and I certainly wouldn't steer everyone away. It just depends on your riding style and what you enjoy in a bike.

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  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonoma_MTB View Post
    I've been riding 27.5 + tires for the past 6 months. I'm going back. I've tried really hard to like it but I just don't. don't get me wrong there are definitely some benefits and things I like. You can roll over anything. Feels like a monster truck on technical climbs. They also feel super fast when just rolling down a trail, I'm always impressed with how fast they roll. But that's about the end of the benefits. They just don't feel super stable when cranking downhill through corners or even through technical sections. I feel like I can't push my bike to it's full potential. The tire pressure game sucks with these tires. There is no ideal pressure that works for climbing and descending. It's either too high to be sticky while climbing or too low to push it on rocky downhills. And so.many.flats. I live in Colorado, it's pretty rocky here but I've gotten 6 flats in the past 3 weeks. All different spots on the same tire. And today I cracked my rim when my tire exploded on a pretty routine rock drop (thankfully nox has an amazing warranty.) But I'm over it. I'm switching back to a smaller tire. I think there are a lot of people who would really enjoy + tires though and I certainly wouldn't steer everyone away. It just depends on your riding style and what you enjoy in a bike.
    That's a serious disenchantment with the 27+ format!

    Well I am not an apologist or a evangelist for the format, let that be clear...I bought a compatible 29er wheelset and have been switching between 29x2.25 and 27x3.0 tires. I will use the narrow tires when it is wet and probably muddy somewhere, and the 3.0 otherwise.

    So far this has worked well for me.

    Most of the terrain I access is not very Rocky or technical, and so I have been spared extreme conditions. That said, I have descended quite a few notably chunky trails aggressively, and have enjoyed the perception of more control and confidence overall.

    My plus bike makes a pretty good 29er that takes on wet roots and trails as well as can be. The huge mud clearance has been a great benefit thanks to the boost spacing. On a recent ride, other riders were getting slowed and stopped by mud build up, whereas I was able to keep on rolling.

    I have yet to try a 2.8 tire. I imagine that I will seek that size when the 3.0 rear tire requires replacement. But I am quite happy with the 3.0 on the front.

    Definitely, the 3.0 tires require a different approach to riding, including line selection, braking, and front/rear weight bias.

    Not only that, the fact that air pressures have critical effect upon handling, and there seems to be no overall ideal pressure I have found. Too firm, and the rebounding tires can feel vague. Too soft, there is squirm, and a fear of bottoming out and tearing the sidewall.

    I've been running 14-15 psi rear, and 12-13 psi front with the 3.0 with satisfaction. I use a 1-30 psi accugauge to calibrate.

    On the 29" tires I have not settled on a favorite pressure, but basically I think I've been running 6-7 psi more I think.

    I can't justify purchasing a variety of tires to search for an ideal. On top of that, I do not enjoy changing tires.

    In it for recreation, and not dominating in competition, you might suppose performance is not my priority; but it's not true. I am just willing to learn the qualities and limitations adapt a technique that combines optimal traction, enjoyment, and style. I endeavor to ride at least a notch below all-out and in a manner that preserves the longevity of my equipment, and the integrity of my personal safety, and others I might encounter on the trail.

    I've ridden on the bleeding edge before, and the truth is, eventually it hurts.

    Oh well, that was rant wasn't it.

    Well I hope 26+ format hardtails will tempt us in the future. And while I may just watch from the sidelines, I do think all the innovation happening with bike formats are making positive changes. Even if we don't find the results to our liking, the technology is amazing.

    I spend more dirt rides on a rigid 26" single speed than on a plus bike. Hell, it's slower downhill, and hard going up steep trails, but it floats my boat.

  65. #65
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    ^^^
    Interesting. Something that drove my curiosity about plus bikes was that I thought the volume would help during the winter, when the trails I ride are wet. It's not straight mud, but also wet rocks, roots, and built-up woodwork. So I think a big contact patch is helpful.

    I was impressed by the traction I got from a SJ 6fattie I demoed on wet trails and even some ice and snow. I ended up going another way because I wanted lighter, quicker-handling wheels in the summer.
    "Don't buy upgrades; ride up grades." -Eddy Merckx

  66. #66
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    You know OP, you could choose something in between XC and +. I found that was the best choice for me. I went with 40mm outer width rims with 2.4" tires. For me it's the best of both worlds. It's still very nimble and light and stability wise it feels like I'm riding my KTM. It really is very fun to ride. It's changed the way I can ride more than any other change I've made.

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