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  1. #1
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    Groovy Cycles 650B

    This weekend I finally got out on my new 650B frame. It's been a bit of wait for the build, and then waiting for a few components to arrive, but a big brown box arrived at my house on Friday. I had the bike built and rideable by Saturday morning, and have spent the past two days riding it.

    The trails are a little on the wet side right now, so I've had to be selective on where I ride, and can't really ride as hard as I'd like. Hopefully the temps drop and the trails freeze, or the sun comes out and dries the trails so that I can get it out for a better ride. But so far the ride has been what expected - very nice.

    I had the bike built to be super versatile: disk and rim brake mounts, geared bike with an EBB, rigid but compatible with a suspension fork, internal cable routing, custom rear rack for overnight bike trips, extra bottle mounts, and Rody made me a custom stem, and Ti bar.

    <img src="https://www.eandsweb.com/bikes/pics/groovy/IMG_0383_md.jpg" height="600" width="800">
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

  2. #2
    rd3
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    Saw some of Rody's blogs while he was building the frame, nice to see it all together. Very classy looking ride!

  3. #3
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    holy poop, thats a beautiful bike. Want some Kenda Nevegals for it? FREE? Check out my blog.

  4. #4
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    That is beautiful. Can you take some close ups. Especially of the fork, the crown looks really unique and cool.

  5. #5
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    The fork crown is an updated version of 1980's Fat Chance box-crown fork. It's a neat design.

    <img src="https://www.eandsweb.com/bikes/pics/groovy/IMG_0390_md.jpg" height="800" width="600">
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

  6. #6
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    Mighty Nice!! Mighty Nice Indeed. How much travel did you have Rody build around if you do put a suspension fork on it?

  7. #7
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    humuna... humuna... humuna

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG
    Mighty Nice!! Mighty Nice Indeed. How much travel did you have Rody build around if you do put a suspension fork on it?
    It's built around a 100mm travel fork - or a good guess of what a 100mm 650B fork will look like.
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

  9. #9
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    Oh my... those are darn sexy-slim fork legs!

    Verrrry nice bike
    Better to have and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

  10. #10
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    One more question - The fork is really cool and I like the retro factor a lot. Is there anything special about building a fork in that style though? Is it a functional feature or is it an aesthetic feature? I'm always curious about rigid fork designs. Thanks in advance if you can fill us in on the fork.

    Cheers,

    Mark

  11. #11
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    Very nice! I have to request a shot of the bar and stem. How is the custom rack mounted? Designing the bike for versatility was a great idea.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG
    One more question - The fork is really cool and I like the retro factor a lot. Is there anything special about building a fork in that style though? Is it a functional feature or is it an aesthetic feature? I'm always curious about rigid fork designs. Thanks in advance if you can fill us in on the fork.
    The design is somewhat aesthetic, but functional too. The idea is that the crown provides extra support to the legs to prevent any twisting from occurring. The more rigid interface will make the steering more precise, and any flex in the legs will be froward/back from impacts, but there will be no twisting of the legs.


    I'll take more detailed shots and post them. The rack mounts that Rody made are pretty cool. The upper mounts are tucked away inside the seat stays, giving a really clean look.
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

  13. #13
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    A few more questions:

    Head Tube angle is?

    ST angle is?

    Fork length and offset are?

    Cheers,

    Mark

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG
    Head Tube angle is?
    72 degrees

    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG
    ST angle is?
    73 degrees

    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG
    Fork length and offset are?
    Fork axle to crown = 476mm
    Fork offset = 42mm
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

  15. #15
    Mr.650b - Mr.27-5
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    Quote Originally Posted by laffeaux
    72 degrees



    73 degrees



    Fork axle to crown = 476mm
    Fork offset = 42mm
    Yup, that'd be about right!

    Cheers,

    KP

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by laffeaux
    72 degrees



    73 degrees



    Fork axle to crown = 476mm
    Fork offset = 42mm

    Thanks for those numbers.

    Where are you located? Just wondering in terms of geometry for different types of terrain and all.

    Regarding the fork - that is taller than many 29er forks - was it your choice for that AC length and that offset or Rody's?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG
    Where are you located? Just wondering in terms of geometry for different types of terrain and all.

    Regarding the fork - that is taller than many 29er forks - was it your choice for that AC length and that offset or Rody's?
    Rody picked the fork numbers. He said that he thought that it would keep it compatible with 100mm 26er forks. I checked, and it is a little longer than my rigid 29er fork - but I do not believe that my 29er fork is suspension corrected.

    I live in Boise, Idaho. The trails here have lots of climbing, but are not overly technical. Close to town we mostly have smooth sandy single track. Higher up in the hills the trails are more technical but never horribly so. I've spent the last few years on a Vicious Cycles Motivator (29er), and prefer slightly steeper bikes - I rode a Bontrager for many many years, and still use mine as a single speed.
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

  18. #18
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    I just dig that bike. Your project inspired me to change my 29er project into a 650B project. Hopefully I'll have pics soon too!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by laffeaux
    Rody picked the fork numbers. He said that he thought that it would keep it compatible with 100mm 26er forks. I checked, and it is a little longer than my rigid 29er fork - but I do not believe that my 29er fork is suspension corrected.
    Jill at Haro says the Beasley SS rigid fork a2c is 484mm, and it was also corrected for a 100-mm suspension fork. I, too, found it strange to have a such a tall a2c...
    Better to have and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

  20. #20
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    Eric,

    Thanks for pointing me to the thread.

    Guys, I'd love to tell you that there is a magic formula for determining the exact geometry for every application, but there's not. Eric's fork numbers were the result of his desire to be able to ride this bike across the globe, be able to keep on trucking despite mechanicals and to have the ability to throw on a sussy fork in the future. Which fork? Dosen't really matter. What is so special about the 650b wheels is that they will fit forks for 26, 650b, or 29er models. So, in setting up this bike to accept any of the above without affecting the ride characteristics, I looked at a span of available forks in all three sizes, analyzed their atc and offsets, then choose numbers for his rigid fork that reflected the best balance in handling/control for the range while still providing the ride characteristics necessary for Eric's style and typical terrain. Not an easy task, but isn't that what custom is about?

    cheers,

    rody
    As requested by the MTBR gods, I am the voice of Groovy Cycleworks, check it out... http://www.groovycycleworks.com

  21. #21
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    Thanks for the reply Rody! It is obvious that a ton of thought and work went into this one - as well as a lot of good communication between builder and customer. The result is stunning! Well done.

  22. #22
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    Part of those "tall" a-c dimensions are that they will also work with an 80mm travel 29" fork as well. That means there are many options if one wants to go to a suspension fork and doesn't want to go the (potentially) marginal 26" fork fit route.

    BTW - sweet looking bike laffeaux! Thumbs up

  23. #23
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    I'm actually a bit surprised we haven't seen more 650b bikes sporting 29er forks up front.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG
    I'm actually a bit surprised we haven't seen more 650b bikes sporting 29er forks up front.
    That's because everyone is trying to squeeze them into 26" platforms. Trying to think inside the box so to speak.

  25. #25
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    Part of the neat think about the 650B format is that it gives the options to run:

    Front / Rear
    650B / 650B
    650B / 26
    700C / 650B

    All of those options, plus having a EBB which allows me to change the BB-height and effective seat tube angle, I think I'll have lots of options for years to come.
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

  26. #26
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    Plus the option to run 700x30(+ or -) front/rear and pretty much maintain the same bb height, geometry and gearing. Lots of versatility for you.

    On a sidenote, does it not snow much in that part of Idaho?

    Quote Originally Posted by laffeaux
    Part of the neat think about the 650B format is that it gives the options to run:

    Front / Rear
    650B / 650B
    650B / 26
    700C / 650B

    All of those options, plus having a EBB which allows me to change the BB-height and effective seat tube angle, I think I'll have lots of options for years to come.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelbike
    On a sidenote, does it not snow much in that part of Idaho?
    We've had a lot of snow days this year, but it normally melts away pretty quickly. Boise is at about 2800 feet, and the picture might be at 3500 feet. It's pretty common to not hit snow until the 4500-5000 foot level. We have skiing about 16 miles from town (about 5500 feet at the base), but at the lower elevations the trails are normally relatively snow free. However, the trails do not stand up well to use when they are wet, so after it rains or the snow melts, it's only possible to ride when the temp are below freezing and the trails are frozen.

    The eastern side of the state is normally buried in snow though.
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

  28. #28
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    not down with the 650b...but that is a sweet, sweet bike! coupled with rody's response i may now have to shortlist groovy...

    laffeux...you planning on trying 29er/650b? i am super curious about that combo.

    thanks for sharing!
    what would rainbow unicorn do?

  29. #29
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    I'll eventually throw a 29er wheel on it to see how it rides.

    My biggest complaint with a 29er is that it's not easy/possible to have shorter stays, wide tires, and a front derailler. There's just not enough room. The 650B in the rear resolves that issue nicely. For longer stays it's not a problem, and my full-suspension bike is a 29er and I really like it. But for a hardtail with shorter stays, I think the 650B mikes more sense (at least for me).
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

  30. #30
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    How short are the chainstays on the Groovy?

  31. #31
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Rody
    Eric,

    Thanks for pointing me to the thread.

    Guys, I'd love to tell you that there is a magic formula for determining the exact geometry for every application, but there's not. Eric's fork numbers were the result of his desire to be able to ride this bike across the globe, be able to keep on trucking despite mechanicals and to have the ability to throw on a sussy fork in the future. Which fork? Dosen't really matter. What is so special about the 650b wheels is that they will fit forks for 26, 650b, or 29er models. So, in setting up this bike to accept any of the above without affecting the ride characteristics, I looked at a span of available forks in all three sizes, analyzed their atc and offsets, then choose numbers for his rigid fork that reflected the best balance in handling/control for the range while still providing the ride characteristics necessary for Eric's style and typical terrain. Not an easy task, but isn't that what custom is about?

    cheers,

    rody
    Better to have and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

  32. #32
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    really nice ride!

    can we see a pic of the rack?

  33. #33
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    Here's a few more pics:

    The rear rack (not physically attached to the bike):

    <img src="https://www.eandsweb.com/bikes/pics/groovy/100_0391_md.jpg" height="800" width="600">

    Seat stay rack attachment points (the rack bolts are "hidden" away) - again not actually attached in the pic:

    <img src="https://www.eandsweb.com/bikes/pics/groovy/100_0392_md.jpg" height="600" width="800">

    Stem and bar close-up:

    <img src="https://www.eandsweb.com/bikes/pics/groovy/100_0393_md.jpg" height="600" width="800">

    Internally routing cables; full housing from shifter to derailler:

    <img src="https://www.eandsweb.com/bikes/pics/groovy/100_0394_md.jpg" height="600" width="800">
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by laffeaux
    Here's a few more pics:

    The rear rack (not physically attached to the bike):

    <img src="https://www.eandsweb.com/bikes/pics/groovy/100_0391_md.jpg" height="800" width="600">

    Seat stay rack attachment points (the rack bolts are "hidden" away) - again not actually attached in the pic:

    <img src="https://www.eandsweb.com/bikes/pics/groovy/100_0392_md.jpg" height="600" width="800">
    Oh, that is sweeet!

    Quote Originally Posted by laffeaux
    Stem and bar close-up:

    <img src="https://www.eandsweb.com/bikes/pics/groovy/100_0393_md.jpg" height="600" width="800">
    Pardon my ignorance, but how do you clamp/tighten the stem to the steerer tube? I don't see pinch bolts...
    Better to have and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by r1Gel
    Pardon my ignorance, but how do you clamp/tighten the stem to the steerer tube? I don't see pinch bolts...
    Oops. I guess I should have taken the picture from the other side. I don't like stems with pinch bolts located at the back of the stem - I've bashed my knees too many times. I asked Rody to build a "knee saver" stem, and then is how it attaches:

    <img src="https://www.eandsweb.com/bikes/pics/groovy/100_0400_jpg.jpg" height="800" width="600">
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

  36. #36
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    That bar is begging for a nice wide, tapered shim. E-mail, me EL and remind me about this. I've probably got something perfect for you.

  37. #37
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    Oh man, that is sooo cool!

    The advantages of going custom

    You're a very smart man; and you know what you want

    Thanks for the great pics.


    Quote Originally Posted by laffeaux
    Oops. I guess I should have taken the picture from the other side. I don't like stems with pinch bolts located at the back of the stem - I've bashed my knees too many times. I asked Rody to build a "knee saver" stem, and then is how it attaches:

    <img src="https://www.eandsweb.com/bikes/pics/groovy/100_0400_jpg.jpg" height="800" width="600">
    Better to have and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

  38. #38
    Fat boy Mod Moderator
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    man he sure makes a purdy bike... wish i had money to drop for him to make one... i'll settle with ordering a set of Groovy Luv bars here one of these days i guess haha
    - Surly Disc trucker
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  39. #39
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    Great bike, great concept

    Do you have a full geometry sheet? I am in the process of a 650b and seeing what others have used in terms of geo helps me quite a bit. The 480mm ish a-c height was what I was thinking, hearing some body else (an experienced builder) say it out loud confirms my idea - 480mm = 100mm 26" fork, 80 mm 29" fork 100 mm 650b white fork, and of course a rigid can always be made. So it's a deal 480 mm a-c. Now, do you use a std 16.8" chain stay or a bit longer, like 17" ? Thanks, and again, great bike!

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litemike
    Now, do you use a std 16.8" chain stay or a bit longer, like 17" ? Thanks, and again, great bike!
    Because of the EBB, the stays vary depending on the BB setting. They're at 17 1/8" with the EBB in the forward position. If I rotated the EBB 180 degrees, the stays would shorten by approximately 3/4" (or maybe just a bit less).
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

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