# Thread: Giant Reign and Vivid Air

1. ## Giant Reign and Vivid Air

Hello,

I have tried the search function and could not find any useful info about mentioned combo.

At the moment i am running a stock 2016 monarch plus with 320psi in the shock at 260lbs of my bulkiness and i am interested in vivid air since I have read its more appropriate for heavier riders and offer more support along the whole trevel, especially need in the beginning and mid stroke.. I am concerned that i might have a problem with vivid since it only goes to 275psi.

Here are my questions:

1. someone runs the vivid air on the reign advanced and does it fit?
2. are there any internal differences between 2015 and 2016 vivid air? (maybe some new seals like in 2016 pike or monarch rc3)
3. will i have troubles getting 30% sag on vivid air since I need to pump the monarch at 320psi or the vivid air works differently and such high pressure wont be necessary?

I really appreciate all the answers, thank you guys!

2. I've just recently tried out a Vivid Air on a couple of bikes.

I took a look at the linkage design numbers for the Giant Reign and the leverage ratio with a 200x57 shock is not the best for your weight and is why you are needing the big pressure figures. That's not going to change with the Vivid Air although the absolute number needed is not easy to determine. The cross-sectional area of the air piston on the Vivid and the large volume of the negative air spring both make it impractical to determine a figure from first principles.

However.

My Devinci Spartan has a similar "shape" leverage curve (almost exactly the same in fact, but scaled) to the Giant Reign. This means we can take my numbers and guess a bit about scaling them.

I run 163psi for 30% sag. I weigh 185lbs. The Devinci is 165mm travel on a 63.5mm stroke.

You're 260lbs. The Reign is 160mm travel on a 57mm stroke.

260:185 = 1.4x weight ratio
160:165=0.97x; 63.5:57=1.114x , giving 1.08x leverage ratio change

Putting these together gives an answer of (163x1.4x1.08) 247psi for you @30% sag. But unfortunately there are too many other effects in play to absolutely trust this number.

The leverage ratio's effect on spring rate and the compression ratio differences of the positive and negative chambers in the shock are things that I'm not able to take into account and they may factor each other out or they may make a marginal situation worse. I really can't tell.

What I can be certain of is that you need a high compression tune/high rebound tune shock. Although the manufacturers often state the tune required in terms of the bike leverage ratio that advice is for people of median weight. The more reliable way is to look at the pressure needed to get sag. You're at the upper end of the range and will need a high compression tune / high rebound tune.

The Vivid air is bulky. It might not fit. The springing will probably cope with your weight, but it will be close. You will definitely need a tune you can't get off the shelf and you'll probably want to play around with bottomless bands (which you can't do on the Vivid Air without a significant set of tools).

I would recommend you work with a good tuning shop to come up with a solution. I rate the Vivid Air highly from my experience with the larger shock size on a lower leverage frame but it might not be the right answer in your case. Sorry to reply with just a load of ifs and buts. It is the best i can do. When I bought my Vivid Air, I also decided to get kitted out with all the tools to service it myself. This is an alternate approach that gives you a chance to experiment with shim stacks and air volumes, although it still won't help if it won't physically fit the bike.

Do you think that it might differ from shock to shock or in general with that frame and linkage and 57mm hub i need around 300-320psi for my weight as it is on monarch now or you think vivid has a different springing, negative chamber, larger can etc and i could pull it of with less psi in general?

Will try with bottomless bands but i dont think it will make a difference with my weight.

4. The pressures will be completely different on a Vivid compared to a Monarch Plus. My calculations suggest a number under 275psi but no guarantees.

The 275psi limit is usually to do with the negative spring. It is safe to volume reduce the positive chamber at 275psi to get the sag in range.

Best starting point will be to work with the Monarch plus on the same principles. Volume reduce to keep pressure required below 320psi. Get it revalved to be appropriate to those pressures.

5. Just try the rubber bands in your Monarch Plus Debonair and you will see a big difference. Start with 4 of them and then see if you will need more or less.

6. Just to let everyone know if someone will attempt the same thing.

Vivid air was not ok for my weight and giant maestro linkage, unfortunately, but i really liked the shock.

I ended up returning the vivid and paying extra for float x2 and this thing is impressive. Can finally set sag at round 300psi and even get it to like 25% which i could not achieve before with monarch+ or vivid air, i was stuck at round 35%..

7. Originally Posted by Gaci
Just to let everyone know if someone will attempt the same thing.

Vivid air was not ok for my weight and giant maestro linkage, unfortunately, but i really liked the shock.

I ended up returning the vivid and paying extra for float x2 and this thing is impressive. Can finally set sag at round 300psi and even get it to like 25% which i could not achieve before with monarch+ or vivid air, i was stuck at round 35%..
I know this is from 2016 but just to make sure for ppl googling sh*t about Float x2, running 300psi is a no-go on this shock. Max pressure is 250psi, atleast for 2017 year model+. As an 198lbs rider i went 240 psi on this shock(with no tokens) to get my sag were i wanted.This shock is truly impressive though, but i doubt its just as nice for 200+lbs riders.

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