Delamination/curing problem inside a carbon frame bottom bracket- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Delamination/curing problem inside a carbon frame bottom bracket

    I got a replacement front triangle for my carbon frame. When assembling the bike back together I discovered that the bottom bracket inside has a delamination/bad curing problem. If you are a carbon expert please tell me how bad is it?

    Delamination/curing problem inside a carbon frame bottom bracket-1.jpg

    Delamination/curing problem inside a carbon frame bottom bracket-1-.jpg

    Delamination/curing problem inside a carbon frame bottom bracket-2.jpg

    Delamination/curing problem inside a carbon frame bottom bracket-2-.jpg

    Delamination/curing problem inside a carbon frame bottom bracket-3.jpg

    Delamination/curing problem inside a carbon frame bottom bracket-3-.jpg

    Delamination/curing problem inside a carbon frame bottom bracket-4.jpg

    Delamination/curing problem inside a carbon frame bottom bracket-4-.jpg

  2. #2
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    Have you addressed this with the manufacturer? Is this a new bike bike? Warranty maybe?
    A bad day of cycling is better than a good day at work

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  3. #3
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    Yep. I already made a warranty claim a couple of days ago. No answer yet. This is a second front triangle I got as a replacement for my initial warranty claim. So I am a bit anxious to just go and ride my bike . Hence the question.

  4. #4
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    Who's the manufacturer?
    A bad day of cycling is better than a good day at work

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  5. #5
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    I can't see how answering your question will help resolving my doubts. I don't want to gossip. I just want to solve the problem.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by goroncy View Post
    I can't see how answering your question will help resolving my doubts. I don't want to gossip. I just want to solve the problem.
    Who said it would resolve anything? It's not gossip, it's just a question.
    A bad day of cycling is better than a good day at work

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  7. #7
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    that's nothing but sloppy prep work

    run it, there is no problem here
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  8. #8
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    Can you elaborate on that?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    that's nothing but sloppy prep work

    run it, there is no problem here
    Agreed
    A bad day of cycling is better than a good day at work

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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by goroncy View Post
    Can you elaborate on that?
    just what I said.

    no gossip, just trying to solve your concern.

    >>there is no issue there.<<

    run it



    go look at some cut open BB shells and decide for yourself how wrinkles, flash, resin, and other ancillary garbage can be inside CF frames yet constitute no issues

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCY9...4lLOHpb_zbIedQ
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    that's nothing but sloppy prep work

    run it, there is no problem here
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleared2land View Post
    Agreed
    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    just what I said.

    no gossip, just trying to solve your concern.

    >>there is no issue there.<<

    run it



    go look at some cut open BB shells and decide for yourself how wrinkles, flash, resin, and other ancillary garbage can be inside CF frames yet constitute no issues

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCY9...4lLOHpb_zbIedQ
    Agreed. That is not structural, nor is it delamination, nor can it propagate. That's excess matrix material (epoxy/resin/whatever).

    Pretty sure the technical term is "booger".

    -F
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  12. #12
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    If this was excess material I wouldn't waste your time. It's a prepreg that is sticking out from the rest of the frame. There is a hole under it. It's the last layer though.

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by goroncy View Post
    If this was excess material I wouldn't waste your time. It's a prepreg that is sticking out from the rest of the frame. There is a hole under it. It's the last layer though.

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
    since you know all the answers why ask about it in a thread then ?
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by 127.0.0.1 View Post
    since you know all the answers why ask about it in a thread then ?
    I most definitely don't know the answer. I was just counting that somebody will be able to see what it is (not correctly pressed layer of prepreg) and tell me how bad it is. Backed by some professional knowledge.

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by goroncy View Post
    I most definitely don't know the answer. I was just counting that somebody will be able to see what it is (not correctly pressed layer of prepreg) and tell me how bad it is. Backed by some professional knowledge.

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
    run it

    that is nothing as we've been saying
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  16. #16
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    To the OP. Sorry you are getting combative "advice" from 127.0.01. Sounds like you are trying to understand the process of carbon to determine if this is legitimate. I don't blame you for continuing to inquire despite his assurance to just "run it" with no substance behind the assertion. I understand you asking us as the manufacturer isn't likely to go into this level of detail.

    I really don't have any definitive knowledge on the process but I know different manufacturer's use different molding techniques for this. My assumption is that the tail end of the last piece of carbon sheeting didn't have the adequate amount of resin to the end of the sheet so it didn't attach itself when it cured. My guess is that this specific observation wont cause an issue but it would give me pause for concern if the frame has this occurring in areas of the frame you cant see (some where buried within the sheets). Because of this, I believe it is wise that you are engaging the manufacturer about a warranty. If they assure you there is no issue, keep all of that documentation on file so if there is ever and issue you can fall back on that for a warranty in the future.

    Hopefully that is helpful. Don't get discouraged about seeking advice here...some people are just grumpy.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaXCarp View Post
    the tail end of the last piece of carbon sheeting didn't have the adequate amount of resin to the end of the sheet so it didn't attach itself when it cured
    The carbon they use is impregnated with resin. This is probably a minor issue with the bladder/foam not pushing that tail into place.

    Perhaps the previous responders with explain their posts with details... from what I've read, some of them know a bit about composite construction.
    Last edited by EatsDirt; 01-18-2019 at 03:57 PM.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaXCarp View Post
    To the OP. Sorry you are getting combative "advice" from 127.0.01. Sounds like you are trying to understand the process of carbon to determine if this is legitimate. I don't blame you for continuing to inquire despite his assurance to just "run it" with no substance behind the assertion. I understand you asking us as the manufacturer isn't likely to go into this level of detail.

    I really don't have any definitive knowledge on the process but I know different manufacturer's use different molding techniques for this. My assumption is that the tail end of the last piece of carbon sheeting didn't have the adequate amount of resin to the end of the sheet so it didn't attach itself when it cured. My guess is that this specific observation wont cause an issue but it would give me pause for concern if the frame has this occurring in areas of the frame you cant see (some where buried within the sheets). Because of this, I believe it is wise that you are engaging the manufacturer about a warranty. If they assure you there is no issue, keep all of that documentation on file so if there is ever and issue you can fall back on that for a warranty in the future.

    Hopefully that is helpful. Don't get discouraged about seeking advice here...some people are just grumpy.
    it is impossible to say anything of value on an internet forum regarding what is going on with that frame

    dead stop, he wants an expert opinion, he'll have to get frame ultrasound scanned and xrayed if he wants -the- definitive answer.

    period


    otherwise, run it. because that looks normal for an 'unclean' frame


    ---
    you think my posts are grumpy ? think really hard about this thread, the topic, the OP comment to other posters, and he wants answers here, accurate ones.

    NOT POSSIBLE unless frame is ultrasound scanned or xrayed.

    --------------------------------

    so, run the frame or quit posting about it and toss it in the dump. there. grumpy enuf ?
    "Put your seatbelt back on or get out and sit in the middle of that circle of death." - Johnny Scoot

  19. #19
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    Thanks everybody for all the help. It came out to be absolutely nothing. This is the response from the guys I got the frame from:


    what you are seeing here is a small piece of left over EPS mandrel material. The material has the dp420 bonding epoxy coating it and is the reason for the grey color.
    The BB tube and the lower pivot tube are both slid into the frame and bonded in. This is not a delamination of any sort.

    There will be no interference while pressing in the BB as well as no structural issues.

    Please advise if there are any issues during assembly.

    Thanks for your time, let us know if you have any further questions and talk soon!!

    As the final note. I would like to explain myself a bit. I would never dig into those things so deeply if not circumstances. I am 36 right now and this is my 26th year on mountain bikes. I did in the past quite a lot of things. In the late 90's and early 2000's I was one of the first people in Warsaw Poland to ride street, dirt and making stupid things in general. Like 3 meter stair gaps. I would never call myself an alarmist/blamer/doubter or any of that. That was ages ago.

    Now. I moved and live near the Alps. Leogang and Saalbach is my playground. Pretty scary place even for a guy that did some crazy staff. Add to this that I am a father of 2, and had a really really bad accident in 2017 in Leogang. This changes the circumstances a bit. I will never till I die stop riding because I need it. This is what my family understands clearly and supports me in my "hobby". So if one of the things I can at least do to minimize the risk, is to ride a safer bike, I want to do just that.

    And for really really final words . What kills and cripples people (in most cases) is not a lack of good protection but not adjusting things that you do to your abilities. So the best thing you can put on your head is not a helmet (this is just a minimum), but to practice, practice and practice a bit more. And stop being a weekend warrior. That is why I bought Inspired Fourplay and practice on it almost every morning before anybody wakes up.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by goroncy View Post
    I got a replacement front triangle for my carbon frame. When assembling the bike back together I discovered that the bottom bracket inside has a delamination/bad curing problem. If you are a carbon expert please tell me how bad is it?
    I work with fiberglass and carbon fiber on my race cars (Formula cars). My experience is that whenever the epoxy is subjected to grease or oil, there is the potential for delamination. The epoxies I use are not baked, if your carbon fiber frame was baked, it will have superior resistance to oil impregnation and delamination. I would say that the bottom bracket is not as critical as the head tube. If there was a failure of the material at the BB you would most likely not be hurt whereas if the head tube failed you would be thrown face first to the ground.

    You should demand the manufacturer inspect it and unless they can guarantee it is 100% safe, they should replace it.

  21. #21
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    Hi. Please read my last comment. The one above your comment. I tried to clarify and close the whole conundrum. Thanks for help.

    When it comes to possible failures in BB vs head tube. I ride park. Head tube would suck more, but with detached BB doing e.g. some medium/big drop, it would also be quite ugly .

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