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  1. #1
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    Chinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition

    There are a few threads related to the various 650b chinese hardtail frames, most of them started by the related suppliers (Hong Fu, Iplay, Cabonal etc).

    Similar to the 29er and Road Forums, it would be a good idea to share all the ordering/assembly /ride feedback in a single thread.

    So has someone alredy ordered or better, received any new toy from the Far East?

    Thanks for sharing!

    Fab
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  2. #2
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    I'm interested in this as well. I'll be wanting to build up a 650b rigid carbon bike from a cheap chinese frame sometime in the future. Having ride reports would be nice.

  3. #3
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    I'm almost ready to pull the trigger on this
    27.5" MTB Frame Full carbon mountain bike 27.5ER (650B) BB30 Frame 17", 19", 21"-in Bicycle Frame from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com

    I am trying to chat with the seller but the time difference doesn't help so I'll email him to check the finish options and the headset/BB configuration.

    I'd also like to get a confirmed weight; I guess the M will be around 1200g.

    Slightly heavier than the other options (scott, Axevo, Haibike etc) but at a fraction of the price.
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  4. #4
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    Why not get a On One 456C instead? Sure looks nicer and the price is pretty close with a company that will stand behind its product.

    On-One Carbon 456 Frame
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterat Pat View Post
    Why not get a On One 456C instead? Sure looks nicer and the price is pretty close with a company that will stand behind its product.

    On-One Carbon 456 Frame
    The 456C is pretty heavy, as is the Whippet for that matter, so if you're looking for a lightweight frame they aren't it. The weights listed for both of these frames does not include the bolt on swap outs. But I can live with the extra weight for a better overall frame.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterat Pat View Post
    Why not get a On One 456C instead? Sure looks nicer and the price is pretty close with a company that will stand behind its product.

    On-One Carbon 456 Frame
    The 456C is too slack. I'd rather have the whippet.

    Or, I could check this out. Comes with a fork too!

    27.5" MTB Frame Full carbon mountain bike 27.5ER (650B) BSA Frame and fork 17", 19", 21"-in Bicycle Frame from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com

    I'm a long way from building up a hardtail, so I've got time to sit it out and see how these frames play out.

  7. #7
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    I considered building a Whippet (beautiful frame) but I will take the risk of ordering overseas for a small weight saving and "racier"geometry. Cheaper too.

    I am currently dealing with a few vendors from Aliexpress and ebay and I have to say that communication is pretty good; in a few days I will place the order for this frame

    http://forums.mtbr.com/650b/newest-c...-a-818331.html

    Curious how claimed weight varies depending on the vendors, the very same frame quoted from 1050 to 1200g.

    Realistically 1200-1250 g will be the real weight of my 17'' frame, 300g less than the Scott Scale 650b(Schurter replica) but also 1700$ cheaper!!

    I am also looking for a slightly used Fox F-series with tapered steerer.
    Already have the new Magura MT6, the new rims (ZTR Crest) will be relaced to AMClassic hubs.

    This will be an interesting winter
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    I don't see a 17" frame listed from that vendor. They provide geo's for 16, 18 and a 20.

    Make sure to not focus on weight alone unless you are a WW. As you know, there are other benefits of carbon. I was surprised that my 17.5" 29er chinese carbon frame weighed in at around 1300g. The quality of the ride on trails made me forget about the weight. Plus, I was still able to build a 22 lbs bike.

    I am certain that my next build will be a 650b. I just need to decide if I want another carbon bike. I might go alloy.

    Keep us posted on your purchase.

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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausable View Post
    I considered building a Whippet (beautiful frame) but I will take the risk of ordering overseas for a small weight saving and "racier"geometry. Cheaper too.
    The Whippet is pretty racy as is; it has 10mm shorter chainstays than the frame you linked and the price is the same ($350). It looks like the Chinese frame is a 71 deg HTA with a 485mm a-to-c fork? Looks like the Whippet is a little slacker there (70 deg with a "fully extended 80mm fork", which is probably what, 450mm a-to-c?). The Whippet keeps the same 105mm headtube through all it's sizes though, while it grows on the other frame.

    I do like their chainstay mounted brakes, but I also like On-One's swapouts.

    Anyways, let us know how it goes. I'd be interested in hearing your impressions.

  11. #11
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    Whippet is heavy? No, I had one and it's far from heavy. It was 3lb or less for an 18" IIRC - not the lightest frame out there, but certainly lighter than any Ti or alloy equivalent. Ordering a 3lb frame from a supplier with a domestic sales force (Unrealcycles.com) that has a history (for me even) of solid support, makes far more sense in my mind than ordering an anemic carbon frame from someone that has no support history or domestic representation & no need to support you. Seems like the latter option (super light frame + unknown customer support legacy) is just begging for problems.

    My $.02
    Last edited by Entrenador; 11-04-2012 at 09:55 PM.

  12. #12
    The White Jeff W
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    The Geo of the Whippeti s also very close to the Yelli Screamy which is a great bike. If they had a Whippet in XL I'd build a 650b racer out of one

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I577 using Tapatalk 2
    No moss...

  13. #13
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    Some of you might look into DengFu also dengfubikes.com Can't link as I don't have enough posts. Mainly a RB guy whose lurking and getting info on possibly getting a 650b

    Quite a people over at that RoadBikeReview forum built up their Road Bikes and several people have done multiple group buys through them over at Velobuild.com It might be worth talking to some of those people about their experience and seeing their RB builds

  14. #14
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    Everybody worrying about .5lb weight in a MTB frame, seems insane to me, the extra half pound of carbon layup might mean years of life and much greater impact resistance which is carbon's weakness. Spend the money on light wheels and tires if you want something that actually effects performance.
    Last edited by Fred Smedley; 11-03-2012 at 10:57 PM.

  15. #15
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    I have been thinking about buying a chinese carbon frame to build up as a project this winter. so I hope some others do as well so I can follow some others progress as well. I am inerested in finding out what others think of these frames.
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  16. #16
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    There's three or four THOUSAND posts about the carbon 29er frames in the 29er Bikes forum. Wheel size and slightly geometry differences aside, the same companies are more or less producing the same frames that have quite a few satisfied customers amongst the 29er crowd - myself included.

    I'll be getting my fiance one of these quite soon. Just need to scoop up a 26er Fox fork. Should build up into a 17-18lb bike pretty easily.

    Anyone want to trade a tapered Fox 100mm fork for a 100mm SID XX non-tapered?
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffw-13 View Post
    The Geo of the Whippeti s also very close to the Yelli Screamy which is a great bike. If they had a Whippet in XL I'd build a 650b racer out of one

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I577 using Tapatalk 2
    Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't think this is remotely close to true. The Whippet is a quick-steering 26" wheeled XC race bike. With a longer fork, it becomes more stable, but it doesn't compare to the Yelli Screamy. Perhaps the numbers aren't that different, but a 70* HTA on a 29er is a very different beast than a 70* HTA on a 26" bike. I've owned a Whippet and I have a 29er that is steeper than the Yelli. The 29er is by far more "trail" oriented than the Whippet, and the Yelli even more so than my 29er. Comparing apples to airplanes here.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Smedley View Post
    Everybody worrying about .5lb weight in a MTB frame, seems insane to me, the extra half pound of carbon layup might mean years of life and much greater impact resistance which is carbon's weakness. Spend the money on light wheels and tires if you want something that actually effects performance.
    I vote for Fred.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    There's three or four THOUSAND posts about the carbon 29er frames in the 29er Bikes forum. Wheel size and slightly geometry differences aside, the same companies are more or less producing the same frames that have quite a few satisfied customers amongst the 29er crowd - myself included.

    I'll be getting my fiance one of these quite soon. Just need to scoop up a 26er Fox fork. Should build up into a 17-18lb bike pretty easily.

    Anyone want to trade a tapered Fox 100mm fork for a 100mm SID XX non-tapered?
    Cool, show the pics when it happens.

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    I'm looking at this closely and I'd like some input on my idea. I want a hardtail for longer rides but am a bit strapped for cash so I'm hoping to purchase one of these 650B frames and moving all my old hardtail stuff across except for the fork.
    I'm not a big fan of an xc geo bike so I'd like to get a longer fork (140mm too much??) to slacken it out and would put a short stem and wide bars on it for comfort.
    initially the wheelset would be 26 until I have enough cash for a 650B set.
    Is this madness? Doing some searching it appears teh longer fork shouldn;t concern me to much as I can run more sag if needs be.
    How will a 26 inch wheelset go on a 650B frame?

    Cheers for advice in advance.

  21. #21
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    Depends

    Quote Originally Posted by crowash View Post
    I'm looking at this closely and I'd like some input on my idea. I want a hardtail for longer rides but am a bit strapped for cash so I'm hoping to purchase one of these 650B frames and moving all my old hardtail stuff across except for the fork.
    I'm not a big fan of an xc geo bike so I'd like to get a longer fork (140mm too much??) to slacken it out and would put a short stem and wide bars on it for comfort.
    initially the wheelset would be 26 until I have enough cash for a 650B set.
    Is this madness? Doing some searching it appears teh longer fork shouldn;t concern me to much as I can run more sag if needs be.
    How will a 26 inch wheelset go on a 650B frame?

    Cheers for advice in advance.
    You talking the On One 456 or what. I believe they work 100-140 forks. As for 26" wheels on 650 specific frame would think you'd be experiencing more pedal strikes then you're used to.
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  22. #22
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    26 inches wheels on a 650b frame probably won't work that well. I assume, given the thread name, that you are referring to Chinese frames right? I think the Chinese frames are specced for 100mm travel forks.

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    Yeah the Chinese frames are the ones.. something like this: 3k Full Carbon Glossy 27.5ER 650B Mountain MTB Bike Frame Headset - 17" 19" 21" | eBay
    So if I add a longer fork I'll be slackening the HA and raising the BB a little?
    26 wheels would only be a short term solution, the issue will be more around do I get a 26inch fork on the cheap or go straight out for a 650B fork.... can;t beleive how quickly the options have made it to market.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Entrenador View Post
    Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't think this is remotely close to true. The Whippet is a quick-steering 26" wheeled XC race bike. With a longer fork, it becomes more stable, but it doesn't compare to the Yelli Screamy. Perhaps the numbers aren't that different, but a 70* HTA on a 29er is a very different beast than a 70* HTA on a 26" bike. I've owned a Whippet and I have a 29er that is steeper than the Yelli. The 29er is by far more "trail" oriented than the Whippet, and the Yelli even more so than my 29er. Comparing apples to airplanes here.

    With an 80 mm fork both bikes have 70* head angle. 73* seat angle, ETT is only 7mm difference, chainstay is 1mm difference. Just sayin...
    No moss...

  25. #25
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    Chinese frame +140=.....

    Quote Originally Posted by crowash View Post
    Yeah the Chinese frames are the ones.. something like this: 3k Full Carbon Glossy 27.5ER 650B Mountain MTB Bike Frame Headset - 17" 19" 21" | eBay
    So if I add a longer fork I'll be slackening the HA and raising the BB a little?
    26 wheels would only be a short term solution, the issue will be more around do I get a 26inch fork on the cheap or go straight out for a 650B fork.... can;t beleive how quickly the options have made it to market.
    Fail! Could be wrong but going 40mm over geo on any frame design, regardless of maker would not be recommended. Possibly catastrophic. Let alone bike would be a little whacky with the combination of long travel fork and 26" wheels.
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    Yeah fair enough, that's the advice I'm after 120 mm would probably be plenty for me but I can't see 100 doing the job.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    Fail! Could be wrong but going 40mm over geo on any frame design, regardless of maker would not be recommended. Possibly catastrophic. Let alone bike would be a little whacky with the combination of long travel fork and 26" wheels.
    JMac is right, it sounds like it would be hugely risky and you could end up with a weird handling critter.

  28. #28
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    Has anyone actually build one of these Chinese frames? They keep popping up on my E-Bay Searches.
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by crowash View Post
    I'm looking at this closely and I'd like some input on my idea. I want a hardtail for longer rides but am a bit strapped for cash so I'm hoping to purchase one of these 650B frames and moving all my old hardtail stuff across except for the fork.
    I'm not a big fan of an xc geo bike so I'd like to get a longer fork (140mm too much??) to slacken it out and would put a short stem and wide bars on it for comfort.
    initially the wheelset would be 26 until I have enough cash for a 650B set.
    Is this madness? Doing some searching it appears teh longer fork shouldn;t concern me to much as I can run more sag if needs be.
    How will a 26 inch wheelset go on a 650B frame?

    Cheers for advice in advance.
    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    You talking the On One 456 or what. I believe they work 100-140 forks. As for 26" wheels on 650 specific frame would think you'd be experiencing more pedal strikes then you're used to.
    I am going to second this. What you have described is exactly what the On-One 456 is and they don't cost much more than the topic of this original thread. It is a 26" frame that will work with 100 to 140mm travel forks. It is also 650 compatible so when the time comes get your 650b wheels. Find a 26" fork now that is 650b compatible, white bros, x-fusion etc and you're good to go without spending money on short term solutions.

  30. #30
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    Yeah a carbon On One looks great but will come in at double the price of the chinese frame here in Australia. That's OK though I'm pretty happy to build up something slowly.
    Its kind of funny that putting 26 wheels on a 650 frame would create havoc but 650 wheels on a 26 inch frame is an improvement.

  31. #31
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    do as I did and wait for a sale. I got the frame, a set of FSA 26" wheels, headset and some spares for about $740 Australian. Sold the wheelset which brought it down under $500

  32. #32
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    there is an FS carbon frame for 650b wheels by HONSEN SPORTS (search frame HM156)
    Looks like the chinese 29er FS , It has 108mm rear travel , works with 120mm fork

  33. #33
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    Hey people,
    This is my first post here.

    I just ordered a 12k 16" Glossy 650b with a BB30 to build a SS for my wife.
    I had an excellent experience dealing with Hong-Fu. Ask for Jane Jiam.
    She answered my questions, corrected language issues and gave some
    confidence that I will recieve the frame as ordered.
    Risky, yes! The price was $520 shipped to my door. Tapered Headset included.
    I just converted my Carbon Sette Phantom into a 650B. So far, everything fits well.

    2009 19" carbon Sette Phantom
    Manitou R7 pro
    Stans Crest 650B
    Vee Rubber 650B
    Edge Composites for Seatpost, Handlebars and Stem.
    Surly 19t Cog
    Spot Brand cranks
    Avid Hydros
    Terry Fly Saddle

    I'll answer question and post progress soon
    Rich
    Last edited by rbelkin; 11-12-2012 at 11:35 AM.

  34. #34
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    Welcome aboard. Post pics! How tall is your wife? I've been thinking of getting one of these for my wife, who is 5 feet, 5 inches tall.

  35. #35
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    Hey Talabardio,
    Yes, I will post pics of my Sette soon.
    The 16" frame from Hong-Fu is on order and won't be here for at least a few weeks.
    If you interested, I have a beautiful 15" Norco Aluminum frame that fits the 650 wheels perfectly. The bike was built as a 26er SS, 21 lb, bike but did not sell.
    I rigged it for 27.5 with a Manitou R7 Pro fork and it looks amazing.
    The pics shows it when it was a 26er. The frame is for sale for $175 + shipping.
    Talk with you soon.

    Rich
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Chinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition-100_0002.jpg  

    Chinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition-100_0001.jpg  


  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrastories View Post
    I have been thinking about buying a chinese carbon frame to build up as a project this winter. so I hope some others do as well so I can follow some others progress as well. I am inerested in finding out what others think of these frames.
    A 650b carbon frame for your reference: Ares - 27.5er - 27.5er MTB - Frames

  37. #37
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    Just pulled the trigger and ordered the frame.
    Before placing the order I evaluated possible options like the new Focus Raven 650b (plenty of hardtail choices here in europe), but the cheapest "brand name" frameset was at least 3 times the price.
    I was dumb enough to forget to specify frame size and BB option on the Paypal comments, sent them a separate mail and the next day the frame was shipped with the right specifications.
    So far so good!
    flyMTBfish

  38. #38
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    Hey Ausable,
    What frame did you order and from who?
    Are going SS or gears?
    Attached are pictures of my new build. I only rode it once
    and I need to tune it up.

    Thanks
    Rich
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Chinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition-100_0142.jpg  

    Chinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition-100_0143.jpg  

    Chinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition-100_0147.jpg  

    Chinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition-100_0146.jpg  

    Chinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition-100_0145.jpg  


  39. #39
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    FYI, the whippet and 456 are no longer $350. They are now $599.

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    We should try to consolidate this info in a nice organized thread. I just want to contribute that I bought a hong fu frame

    2012 Full carbon mountain bike MTB 26ER frame 21" Fork-in Bicycle Frame from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com'


    and although the fork seemed to be a 29er fork, No way shape or how does a 27.5 rim fit back there. I was hoping this would be similar to the on one whippet.


    All I want is a nice 27.5 frame.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by LowOnO2 View Post
    FYI, the whippet and 456 are no longer $350. They are now $599.
    Yeah, this is a shame. It's not the price that is bad, but their shipping is over the top. On-One usa doesn't have the same good deals.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by sifu View Post
    We should try to consolidate this info in a nice organized thread. I just want to contribute that I bought a hong fu frame

    2012 Full carbon mountain bike MTB 26ER frame 21" Fork-in Bicycle Frame from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com'


    and although the fork seemed to be a 29er fork, No way shape or how does a 27.5 rim fit back there. I was hoping this would be similar to the on one whippet.


    All I want is a nice 27.5 frame.
    You bought a 26er frame from the looks of it. I believe that Hong Fu makes a 27.5 specific frame.

  43. #43
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    I did. It was cheaper than listed now, and hoped it would convert, like on one whippet/456.

    Quote Originally Posted by talabardio View Post
    You bought a 26er frame from the looks of it. I believe that Hong Fu makes a 27.5 specific frame.

  44. #44
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    Sifu did you originally want a 26er or did you order the wrong item?
    Hong fu does indeed make a 27.5 specific frame and fork which are almost identical to yours, but dedicated to the bigger wheels
    I bought one, see my previous posts or search ebay/aliexpress for "27.5 carbon frame"
    flyMTBfish

  45. #45
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    As usual a sniff of anything new and these guys are all over it in a jiffy
    Just hope the geo in the right frame(pun meant) for the first buyers

    hongfu-bikes.com/html_products/2013-650B-Full--Suspension-283.html]2013 650B Full Suspension[/url]

  46. #46
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    I agree, they have been quicker to sniff the new trend than many other builders in the US.
    Hopefully there is nothing impressively difficult in copying an HT geometry - and also the manufacturing process should be well honed.
    Finger crossed!
    flyMTBfish

  47. #47
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    Happy to confirm that the frame has been delivered last week, slightly more that 2 weeks after I placed the order. This sets a new record for shipping from China to Europe, even shorter than 100g envelopes from Dealextreme!
    Sorry for the lack of time for pictures, I can say that the item is perfectly as described in the many pictures from the vendors. If anyone needs any specific detail I’ll try to post.
    This is the preliminary list of pros and cons
    LIKE
    >The frame came properly packed, with all the delicate bits protected by foam, plugs or spacers. Could use a sturdier box, which came slightly “bumped” but no damage.
    >Beautiful finish, 3k weave plus clear coat. I thought to remove paint and go for the matte look but there’s too much work involved, forget about it.
    >Actual weight: 1130g on my digital scale ; exactly within the claimed tolerances. This is a great weight for the money.
    >Clean (internal) cable routing ;
    >Included headset is decent quality (well there’s little more than the bearings…) Compression plug for carbon forks is a nice touch
    >Dropout spacing spot – on ; BB threads OK; Headset housing seems to have the right tolerance,but bearings not . fitted yet.

    DON’T LIKE
    >Internal routing for rear brake - too much fuss (and bleeding required) for limited advantage
    >Chainstays are a bit on the chunky side, I expect a relatively harsh ride, we'll see.
    >No chainsuck protection plate embedded in the chainstays

    The quick delivery took me by surprise, I just ordered the fork but still have to order the rims and relace the wheels;
    I will update if I find anything relevant during the build.
    Cheers
    flyMTBfish

  48. #48
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    Just joined so that I can post about my new-to-me Hongfu FM-136. My background: I grew up riding bikes and then took a 20 year hiatus from it. I got back into it by doing triathlons and road racing since 2007 and then started doing cyclocross a few years ago. Discovered that I preferred that to road racing and noodled on the idea of getting an MTB for a long time. Because I research everything to death, I decided to wait until I could get a 650B bike built.

    After looking around a lot and reading a lot of the discussion here on the Hongfu FM-136, I opted to take the plunge and get one. I've attached a picture of my bike that I just completed on Saturday.

    The build is:

    Hongfu FM-136 650B frame in size 18 (I'm 5'10 with a 31.5" inseam), 1050grams as weighed by my not-so-precise scale
    90mm 6 degree rise stem
    Rockshox Revelation XX 650B fork - they have 100mm travel, and the frame was designed for 100mm travel
    light-bicycle.com 25mm rim 650B tubeless ready wheels with 15QR, 32 spoke count, novatec hubs, weighed in at 1525 grams
    SRAM XO 2x10 42/28 175mm crank with 11-36 cassette, type 2 rear derailleur
    Schwalbe Rocket Ron 650B 2.25" tires, tubeless
    Selle San Marco Aspide Arrowhead saddle

    The build took me about a week to complete, which was more a function of me taking my time because I'm unfamiliar with building MTBs (I've built about 6 bikes, all of them road bikes and those typically take me about 1-2 days). I had to learn about

    The only things I had an issue with were (1) one of the holes on the stem wasn't threaded, so I had to thread that with a tap. Similarly, one of the holes for the rear disc brake mount wasn't threaded, so I had to thread that. Given the small spaces there, that was a PITA, but not insurmountable.

    Threading the rear brake cable through the frame was trivial. Bleeding the brake was equally trivial and took me < 30 minutes. Given that it was the 1st time I'd ever bled a hydraulic brake, I think that the next time would be faster.

    I'm not sure that I'm the right person to comment on ride harshness given that my only reference point is riding a cyclocross bike on MTB trails (insanely jarring, btw). While the FM-136 is much, much smoother than the CX bike, bumps aren't eliminated - you still feel them. I'm still tuning my suspension and tire pressure, so that's probably still a huge factor. That said, the bike is super controllable and predictable. The geometry is perfect for me and for my intent (XC racing). It rails around corners like there's no tomorrow - I can go around tight twisty singletrack much, much faster than on my CX bike, and that's not because of the suspension.

    Anyways, I'm incredibly impressed with the build quality of the frame and the responsiveness of the thing. Right now I can't find anything about it that I don't like other than the fact that a single-bolt seat post is probably not the best choice for a MTB - it doesn't stay horizontal.

    With that said, here's the pic:

    [Umm, apparently you can't post the link when you have < 10 posts. Super]

    OK, maybe a gallery pic will work?

    Nope, apparently not. Gngngngn.
    Last edited by morphtcat; 12-17-2012 at 06:24 AM.

  49. #49
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    Oh geez, apparently I can't even reply to PM that someone sent me asking if I wanted them to post the URL pic for me. I guess I'll just have to make some more posts. Wow.

  50. #50
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    OK, I finally have 10 posts. Here's the bike:



    Edit: hopefully the pic is now smaller.
    Last edited by morphtcat; 12-18-2012 at 12:06 PM.

  51. #51
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    Nice job, Morphtcat. Keep us up to date as you find out more!

  52. #52
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    This sounds like a great XC build with choices that are right up my alley. Can't wait to see the pics. I don't know squat about using a tap, so the lack of threads that you mentioned would have been a really significant problem for me.

  53. #53
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    Thanks. I'll do that. I only finished the build on Saturday, so I haven't had much of a chance to ride it. Initial impressions are that they got the geometry right. It is super nimble, but isn't unstable at all. Compared to my cyclocross bike, it turns much faster and is actually more predictable in the turn. It feels very responsive when I climb - the carbon doesn't feel dead. I've got nothing bad to say about the wheels thus far either.

    About the only difficulty I had while building was that the rear screw hole for the rear brake caliper wasn't threaded, so I had to spend some time doing that. Not too big a deal though.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by talabardio View Post
    This sounds like a great XC build with choices that are right up my alley. Can't wait to see the pics. I don't know squat about using a tap, so the lack of threads that you mentioned would have been a really significant problem for me.
    I managed to get one pic up - see a little earlier in the thread (I hope :-)). Honestly, the thread tap was a non-issue. It was only a single thread on the frame, and one on the FSA stem that I purchased separately.

    To solve it, all I needed was a cheap bit of hardware from Home Depot - a thread tap for an M6 bolt - and some amount of patience. I'd never done that before, so it was new to me and it turned out just fine. When I first encountered it, though, I freaked a little, but then asked a couple of friends what to do.

  55. #55
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    Great build MOrphtcat!
    I still have the frame in my garage, a few online orders have been delayed due to the Cristmas season, no fork, rims and H-bar-
    Can't wait to start the build!
    A couple of questions:

    Did you get the matte3k finish, or is it just a camera effect?

    Looking at the picture I just realized that the internal routing for the rear brake (hose entering left side) won't work too well for moto-style routing (rear brake - left side).
    Did you use a standard routing?

    Did you have a chance to weight the fork before assembly?

    PS it would be great to resize the pic to avoid the horizontal scroll
    flyMTBfish

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausable View Post
    Great build MOrphtcat!
    I still have the frame in my garage, a few online orders have been delayed due to the Cristmas season, no fork, rims and H-bar-
    Can't wait to start the build!
    A couple of questions:

    Did you get the matte3k finish, or is it just a camera effect?
    I got the matte 3k finish - I originally asked for glossy, but they didn't have that readily available. In hindsight, I'm actually glad I got the matte finish.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ausable View Post
    Looking at the picture I just realized that the internal routing for the rear brake (hose entering left side) won't work too well for moto-style routing (rear brake - left side).
    Did you use a standard routing?
    I have a standard setup - rear brake on the right. All my bikes (including my CX bike) have that style, and when I ride the motorcycle I don't seem to have a problem . btw: the routing of the cable internally was easy; it seems like they've done the right thing and have an internal channel so that you just have to push things through. The tolerances are extremely tight, which is good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ausable View Post
    Did you have a chance to weight the fork before assembly?
    I did, but to be honest I forget exactly what it weighed. If I recall correctly, it was pretty much exactly what Rockshox specified. The entire bike comes in at somewhere around 21-22lb depending on tires used. I'm also going to change the seat post to a 2-bolt FSA because a 1-bolt setup just doesn't keep the saddle horizontal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ausable View Post
    PS it would be great to resize the pic to avoid the horizontal scroll
    I'll try to do that, but I'm not sure that I can.

  57. #57
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    Morphtcat,
    A beautiful bike and build. Best of luck. Now go get her dirty!
    I'm waiting for my FM-136 to arrive. I ordered the Glossy 12K, BB30.
    I'm building a 16" 18.5 lbs. Single Speed for my wife.
    Could you tell me what the seatpost size is. (31.6?)
    Thanks
    Rich

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbelkin View Post
    Morphtcat,
    A beautiful bike and build. Best of luck. Now go get her dirty!
    I'm waiting for my FM-136 to arrive. I ordered the Glossy 12K, BB30.
    I'm building a 16" 18.5 lbs. Single Speed for my wife.
    Could you tell me what the seatpost size is. (31.6?)
    Thanks
    Rich
    Thanks Rich! It's a 31.6 seat post. I'm getting an FSA K-Force SB25 for mine.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbelkin View Post
    .
    I'm building a 16" 18.5 lbs. Single Speed for my wife.

    Thanks
    Rich
    Tensioner or magic gear?
    www.msmtb.org - Mississippi Mountain Biking

  60. #60
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    Morphtcat, thanks. I order the EDGE Composites carbon post.

    ohpossum,
    I'm using a Problem Solvers E46 eccentric BB wih a Surly 19t cog.
    Hope it works as advertised since this will be a first for me.
    I looked at the Beer Components and a few others.
    I usually convert standard bracket bikes using the Surly Singulator.
    What is a Magic gear?
    Thanks
    Rich

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbelkin View Post
    Morphtcat, thanks. I order the EDGE Composites carbon post.

    ohpossum,
    I'm using a Problem Solvers E46 eccentric BB wih a Surly 19t cog.
    Hope it works as advertised since this will be a first for me.
    I looked at the Beer Components and a few others.
    I usually convert standard bracket bikes using the Surly Singulator.
    What is a Magic gear?
    Thanks
    Rich
    Ah..forgot these frames came with BB30.

    Magic gear is when you luck out and a usable ratio can be used with the existing chainstay length. I had an old Haro frame that worked perfectly with 32x17 because the chainstays were just the right length.
    www.msmtb.org - Mississippi Mountain Biking

  62. #62
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    I'm always half a link away from perfection!
    I tried using a half link once, but it wasnt good.
    The tensioner allows me to change cogs if necessary for
    different trails.
    Thanks
    Rich
    (You could see pics of my Sette build on page 2 of this thread)

  63. #63
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    such a good looking bike and i'm glad you did go w/t he matte finish...
    Custom Built Caletti Steel Road Bike
    2012 Jamis Nemesis 650b

    Terminal Pholocity

  64. #64
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    Bunch of these frames on ebay with forks and without. $300-$500 range
    No moss...

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffw-13 View Post
    Bunch of these frames on ebay with forks and without. $300-$500 range
    The ones I've seen on eBay aren't the same as the Hongfu frame - the geometry and sizing is different (at least those that I've seen).

  66. #66
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    Hung Fu Bikes

    I pulled the trigger on a Hung Fu Bikes 650b hardtail carbon fiber bike. I've received the frame (only took about 2 weeks) and am now collecting the components and slowly assembling the bike. My frame is a large and weighed 1,285 grams. It looks like a well made carbon frame. I can't find anything to complain about after inspection.

    My build will be a little different...I originally wanted a simple hardtail in 650b, but with the lack of a light suspension fork available until some time next year (ie, Rockshox SID Worldcup...sub 1,300 grams), I decided to try something different...carbon rigid fork (also Chinese made) with a short length (465m) and run a 29" front wheel. When a good light suspension fork becomes available I may switch. So I'm building a NinerBee...

  67. #67
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    Nice michael9218, that should be a fun build. I also struggled with the light fork story - the Magura TS8 R is only available in Jan/Feb, and that's also going to be around 1600 grams. I eventually went with the Rockshox Revelation XX 650b. My bike weighs in at 21.3lb (I just weighed it), so it isn't super heavy by any stretch, but a lighter fork will get it down to around 20lb and change (the weight difference between the Revelation XX and the SID is going to be about 500g at most, which is ~1lb).

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by morphtcat View Post
    The ones I've seen on eBay aren't the same as the Hongfu frame - the geometry and sizing is different (at least those that I've seen).
    The ones on ebay currently are flyxii frames.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by morphtcat View Post
    Nice michael9218, that should be a fun build. I also struggled with the light fork story - the Magura TS8 R is only available in Jan/Feb, and that's also going to be around 1600 grams. I eventually went with the Rockshox Revelation XX 650b. My bike weighs in at 21.3lb (I just weighed it), so it isn't super heavy by any stretch, but a lighter fork will get it down to around 20lb and change (the weight difference between the Revelation XX and the SID is going to be about 500g at most, which is ~1lb).
    Your bike looks sweet. Which seatpost did you go with?

    My Ellsworth Truth is already at 22.5 lbs (B6 1x10), so I wanted the hardtail carbon to be under 19 lbs. I run a 1x10 setup with Rotor cranks, so I figured with the right suspension fork this could be accomplished. With the rigid fork and 29" front wheel the bike will be right at about 18 lbs. I think this bike will be sweet on smooth technical single track. Hopefully the lack of a front suspension will be offset by the joy of an 18 lb bike!

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason.MT View Post
    A 650b carbon frame for your reference: Ares - 27.5er - 27.5er MTB - Frames
    Yeah,
    I 'm thinking of picking up one of these as well- did someresearch and they seem to be a quality product and reasonable light.
    Would be a 1X10 with a 100mm fork all around xc bike.....anybody here have one of these?

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by michael9218 View Post
    Your bike looks sweet. Which seatpost did you go with?
    I originally got a one-bolt carbon post from light-bicycle.com that looked like a bontrager race XXX light. It turns out, at least with the one I got, that a one-bolt post doesn't withstand the jarring of a harsh ride, and the saddle wouldn't stay horizontal, so I replaced it with an FSA K-Force seat post that weighs in at around 200g (the other one is about 140g).

    Right now there's very little I can say that's bad about the frame. It seems rock-solid, the geometry is spot on, and it fills me with confidence going over all sorts of stuff. That said, I'm a beginner mountain biker. Yesterday I managed to ride up a ramp, along a 6ft tree, down another ramp, and then jumped over several logs, rock piles and so on - the combination of frame, tires, wheel and group just seems fantastic to me. I think you'll love the frame.


    Quote Originally Posted by michael9218 View Post
    My Ellsworth Truth is already at 22.5 lbs (B6 1x10), so I wanted the hardtail carbon to be under 19 lbs. I run a 1x10 setup with Rotor cranks, so I figured with the right suspension fork this could be accomplished. With the rigid fork and 29" front wheel the bike will be right at about 18 lbs. I think this bike will be sweet on smooth technical single track. Hopefully the lack of a front suspension will be offset by the joy of an 18 lb bike!
    Oh yeah, I don' think you'll have a problem - 450g carbon fork vs. 1800g suspension fork. Right there you're saving 3lb. The 1x10 setup will make up the rest of the difference I think. That 22.5lb is pretty impressive for a full suspension bike!

    My goal was to have a fairly light XC hardtail without completely going nutty and getting XX. When the SID fork comes out, I may switch my wife to it (her bike is 24lb and she weighs 90lb), but so far the weight of my bike isn't even close to an issue for me.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by morphtcat View Post
    OK, I finally have 10 posts. Here's the bike:



    Edit: hopefully the pic is now smaller.
    Looks great
    I'm tempted to buy one of these to try out now.. Ideally I'd build a singlespeed with a rigid fork for general fun.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by morphtcat View Post
    OK, I finally have 10 posts. Here's the bike:



    Edit: hopefully the pic is now smaller.
    Hey morphcat, great looking bike, any chance you could post some pics of the bike? Keen to see some other angles.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeti fan View Post
    Hey morphcat, great looking bike, any chance you could post some pics of the bike? Keen to see some other angles.
    Sure. Here you go. Hopefully this works correctly. The bike is a little dirty, sorry
















  75. #75
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    9erBee Carbon Hardtail

    I finished up my HongFu-Bikes carbon hardtail build the other day and took it out for a long 3:40 ride at FATS in South Carolina. If you live the Southeast, this place should be on your bucket list. 37 miles of flowy, fast smooth singletrack. The perfect place for a carbon hardtail rigid forked bike...

    First the build:
    HongFu-Bikes carbon hardtail large 650b frame (1285g)
    465mm carbon fork from Xiamen Iplay Sports (705g)
    Rotor SS cranks with Q-Ring
    Speedplay Ti pedals
    Shimano XTR Shadow+ der
    Formula R1 brakes
    Dave's Wheels Chris King/Stans Crest wheelset, 29 front, 650b rear
    Racing Ralph tires
    Selle Italia SLR XC Flow saddle
    Easton EA50 post (bought it to use in the bike stand...waiting on delivery of a light carbon post)

    Bike currently weighs in at 18lbs 1 ounce. With the carbon post, it'll be just under 18 lbs.

    The idea was to build a carbon hardtail 650b XC race bike. I like my 22.5lb B6 1x Ellsworth Truth, but wanted something really light for smoother trails to race on. Since there isn't a currently available light XC racing fork for the 650b until the SID World Cup is available in an 80mm/100mm travel, I decided to go asymmetrical again and try a 29" front with a rigid fork with a shorter A2C to keep the geometry correct for the frame. Hoping that the 29" tire will roll over better and somewhat compensate for the lack of front suspension...plus I've been curious to try a 29" tire as well.

    So how did it ride? This bike couldn't be more different than my Truth. You sit low in the frame with the low BB. The bike is obviously, and expectedly, less plush. The 29" tire does indeed rollover small stuff really well. Big hits cause the bike to bounce. You really have to adjust your riding style and be more active. The 18 lbs feels just amazing under you. The bike is crazy nimble and accelerates and climbs like a bat out of hell. The frame is extremely efficient at power transfer. These trails have a lot of tight singletrack in the trees. This thing is like a scaple. Very precise. On an access fire road, the bike rode very smooth. You can really tell that the frame soaks up the small vibrations well. The real proof in this bike was that after 3:40 of riding on my first time on this bike, I was comfortable with no sore hands or back.

    Build quality on this frame seems quite good. The internal routing caused no issues. The rear derailleur cable routing works well and isn't goofy like the Niner bikes. You simply feed in the cable at the head and it pops out at the rear of the chain stay.

    I give this bike a thumbs up, and also am very pleased with the 650b rear and 29" front. The 1x without a chain guide caused one chain drop in the 37 miles, so I'll be going with a e13 XCX guide. I'm looking forward to trying this bike on a slightly rougher trail to see how it does.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Chinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition-9erbee-carbon-hardtail-001-800x533-.jpg  

    Chinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition-9erbee-carbon-hardtail-002-800x533-.jpg  

    Chinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition-9erbee-carbon-hardtail-003-533x800-.jpg  

    Chinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition-9erbee-carbon-hardtail-004-533x800-.jpg  

    Chinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition-9erbee-carbon-hardtail-005-533x800-.jpg  

    Chinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition-9erbee-carbon-hardtail-006-800x533-.jpg  

    Chinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition-9erbee-carbon-hardtail-007-533x800-.jpg  


  76. #76
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    michael9218, that looks wicked cool! I like the clean lines on the bars from not having too many cables. I love the red detailing as well, esp. the top cap on the steerer tube.

  77. #77
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    I am new to the forum and have followed a few Chinese carbon builds. How do I go about ordering a frame from hung-fu? I want t buy a 275 full suspension frame. Thanks, Tim

  78. #78
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    There's this really cool website called Google...

    Hungfu-bikes.com

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by michael9218 View Post
    There's this really cool website called Google...

    Hungfu-bikes.com
    Oh that website is COOL! I already sent them an email.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by splifrover View Post
    Oh that website is COOL! I already sent them an email.
    They'll get back to you. That's what I did.

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by michael9218 View Post
    There's this really cool website called Google...

    Hungfu-bikes.com
    Maybe you mean HongFu Sports Equipment CO.,LTD - HongFu Sports Equipment CO.,LTD

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by talabardio View Post
    Yep, thanks for catching that.

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by michael9218 View Post
    Yep, thanks for catching that.
    Hey they have a FS frame now but you have to supply the shock - seems to me that most FS bikes come with a shock that is already set up to work well with that frame?

  84. #84
    Wrench
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    Quote Originally Posted by talabardio View Post
    Hey they have a FS frame now but you have to supply the shock - seems to me that most FS bikes come with a shock that is already set up to work well with that frame?
    Not always the case. Rear shocks are spec'ed to the frame with a pricepoint in mind. Just like front forks, except rear shocks don't usually have options to give longer travel. They are limited by the frame design. Some frames are built for shocks with 7"eye-to-eye measurements, some with 5" measurements.

    So in buying a frame without a rear shock, you can really pick what kind of shock you'd want. Coil, air, brand, etc.

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by FNFAL View Post
    Not always the case. Rear shocks are spec'ed to the frame with a pricepoint in mind. Just like front forks, except rear shocks don't usually have options to give longer travel. They are limited by the frame design. Some frames are built for shocks with 7"eye-to-eye measurements, some with 5" measurements.

    So in buying a frame without a rear shock, you can really pick what kind of shock you'd want. Coil, air, brand, etc.
    Oh OK. I thought I'd read where the shock would be set up special to work with certain frames.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by talabardio View Post
    Oh OK. I thought I'd read where the shock would be set up special to work with certain frames.
    The only shocks you'd find like that today are the Specialized "brain" shocks. But for the rest of the industry, throwing an RP23 on the frame is usually sufficient.

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by FNFAL View Post
    The only shocks you'd find like that today are the Specialized "brain" shocks. But for the rest of the industry, throwing an RP23 on the frame is usually sufficient.
    That's good to know. I ride hardtail or rigid, don't know much about suspension...obviously. My wife wants to get into it, so I'm thinking FS for her as I think she'll have more safety on a full squish. Any thoughts on what kind of shock would be best on that frame?

  88. #88
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    Found this in a build with a carbonality ARES frame...

    chinese 650b

  89. #89
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    Chinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition-frpxdh29mtbdisc-blk_p1xxxxxxxxxxxx.jpg How do you think this frame compares to others mentioned seems light.
    Planet X Dirty Harry 29er MTB Disc Frame

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkertalker View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	FRPXDH29MTBDISC-BLK_P1xxxxxxxxxxxx.jpg 
Views:	1567 
Size:	106.7 KB 
ID:	751078 How do you think this frame compares to others mentioned seems light.

    Planet X Dirty Harry 29er MTB Disc Frame
    I don't know. As it applies to 650b, I don't feel lucky....

    Did he fire six shots or only five?

    I gots to know

  91. #91
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    Hi,
    Does that hongfu frame fits with the Fox f32 suspension?
    I have emailed them but their answer was not very clear XD

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by talabardio View Post
    That's good to know. I ride hardtail or rigid, don't know much about suspension...obviously. My wife wants to get into it, so I'm thinking FS for her as I think she'll have more safety on a full squish. Any thoughts on what kind of shock would be best on that frame?
    sufficient, maybe. but certain bikes do require different shock valving that IS usually specced by the bike company. eg an orange 5 single pivot would have a higher internal compression setting than say, a trek fuel with lighter rebound & compression settings.

  93. #93
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    Dfav, the Fox Fseries or Float will accept any Xc size 650b tires, just remember the frame has a tapered head tube (1 1/2"- 1 1/8") so you have to use a tapered fork or a standard fork plus adapter.
    flyMTBfish

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by FNFAL View Post
    The only shocks you'd find like that today are the Specialized "brain" shocks. But for the rest of the industry, throwing an RP23 on the frame is usually sufficient.
    That's not true at all. Todays frames come with shocks that are tuned to the suspension of the frame. I'm no expert but I know enough to know the different manufacturers spec their shocks with different tunes taking into account things like leverage ratio etc..
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  95. #95
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    Just got a quote on an 18" FS frame for $738 shipped with headset installed, really not a bad price.

    I'm thinking of switching the hardtail components over from my 17" Bokor, I don't think hardtails are for me...
    -Matt
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  96. #96
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    carbon 650b hm-156

    Just received the new full suspension 650b frame through Shenzhen Honsen sports! I have been so happy with my converted superlight besides all the broken der.hangers I thought losing some weight would be nice.I weighed it as it came ,bare without shock and it is 3lb13oz . Now im just waiting on a few other parts to arrive so I can get out and test it !
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Chinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition-650b-frame.jpg  


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    N00b post

    Hi, I just joined MTBR because I saw this thread and have just last week ordered a carbon frame from China, so I'm really pleased to see that others are ordering frames from China and having success with the process.

    Big thanks to morphtcat and others for posting pics. And good to hear you had little trouble.

    I've been riding MTB since I bought my first bike in 1997 - a Klein Mantra Race. I still have it and just bought some new DMR dee vees and an Elixir 5 disc for it. It's super old-school but I love it for a hack around the city bike, and I meet so many MTBers because everywhere I park it I get guys coming up going "OMG I remember those!'

    Anyhoo I have to first apologize because I'm not building a 650. Just a standard 26" for now. I've been picking up bits from ebay and Chain Reaction and am a bit of a weight weenie - it's carbon and titanium all the way where possible.

    I had an interesting time picking a frame from China. I registered with Alibaba and because I had already bought rims, forks and cranks, I had to get the frame to match.

    I found about 3-4 frames that were suitable. Out of the several thousand links in Alibaba it turns out that there really are only a handful of frame designs - maybe 20-30 or so that I could see. I had to find one that was 26"/BB30/tapered/31.6mm in my size 18"-19" and the most difficult bit - available immediately. One company couldn't ship me a frame until late March!

    I also wanted 3k weave, and ideally matt. Turns out that "matt paint" costs $50 more, I assume because they have to coat it with something to remove the gloss. So I accepted shiny 3K. I got frame FM038 (sorry can't post a pic and not even a link before 10 posts!! just stick FM038 into the search at alibaba.com if interested) or just over US$400 delivered. What helped was Ms Kathy Jin at the bottom of the page was online and we chatted so I could get all my questions answered.

    Sorry to invade your 650 thread, just wanted to say thanks for the info provided about Chinese frames.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blurbikerider View Post
    Just received the new full suspension 650b frame through Shenzhen Honsen sports! I have been so happy with my converted superlight besides all the broken der.hangers I thought losing some weight would be nice.I weighed it as it came ,bare without shock and it is 3lb13oz . Now im just waiting on a few other parts to arrive so I can get out and test it !
    What did it cost you to your door?
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  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by szabaga View Post
    What did it cost you to your door?
    775.00 ,was supposed to be painted though ,I'm waiting for a reply from Leo to see what went wrong.

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blurbikerider View Post
    775.00 ,was supposed to be painted though ,I'm waiting for a reply from Leo to see what went wrong.
    It was 747.00 without paint and shipped from China to Florida.

  101. #101
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    Geo or travel numbers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blurbikerider View Post
    Just received the new full suspension 650b frame through Shenzhen Honsen sports! I have been so happy with my converted superlight besides all the broken der.hangers I thought losing some weight would be nice.I weighed it as it came ,bare without shock and it is 3lb13oz . Now im just waiting on a few other parts to arrive so I can get out and test it !
    I contacted hongFuv via the earlier link in the thread looks like the same frame you have there. They did not supply geometry head set (straight or tappered or suspension travel shock eyelet to eyelet. Did you get any of that from them? If so could you post? Thanks in advance!
    UGG boots will germinate Paris Hilton like intellect in your soles!

  102. #102
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    650 b full suspension hm-156 geo

    Quote Originally Posted by carverboy View Post
    I contacted hongFuv via the earlier link in the thread looks like the same frame you have there. They did not supply geometry head set (straight or tappered or suspension travel shock eyelet to eyelet. Did you get any of that from them? If so could you post? Thanks in advance!
    I did business with Shenzhen Honsen sports since Hong Fu never responded to my emails. Hong Fu mentions that their frame has convertable thru axle dropouts so I'm not sure if it's the same otherwise ,anyway i have attached a snapshot of the geometry chart they gave me .
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Chinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition-hm156-bike-frame.jpg  


  103. #103
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    Can any of these frames handle a 650b 140mm fork or 69er setup with a 100mm fork?
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  104. #104
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    Last edited by nowshon; 02-12-2013 at 06:12 PM.

  105. #105
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    Interested

    Quote Originally Posted by nowshon View Post
    I have a Pro Motion brand 650b hardtail frame listed in classifieds. Size medium. After reading posts here, I'm 99% sure it's a Hong Fu FM136 frame under the red and white paint. $400 plus $30 shipping to lower 48.
    PM about your promotion frame for sale

  106. #106
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    650b project

    Chinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition-my-650b.jpgfixing one up now.... will have more pics and complete list of goodies to come

  107. #107
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    glossy

    Chinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition-my-650b.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by foofighter275 View Post
    such a good looking bike and i'm glad you did go w/t he matte finish...
    i have the glossy

  108. #108
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    yes mine has a xfusion velvet rl2 140mm fork

  109. #109
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    hey what front deraileur did you guys go with? low clamp or high clamp top pull or did it matter? i just ordered low clamp sram xx fr delr for mine..

  110. #110
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    On the Hong-Fu Geometry photo oh Flickr, the A-C is listed as 485mm, which is suitable for a 100mm fork.
    All sizes | HF-FM136-650B-20 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

    A 140mm fork would really raise the BB.
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  111. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausable View Post
    This is the preliminary list of pros and cons
    LIKE
    >The frame came properly packed, with all the delicate bits protected by foam, plugs or spacers. Could use a sturdier box, which came slightly “bumped” but no damage.
    >Beautiful finish, 3k weave plus clear coat. I thought to remove paint and go for the matte look but there’s too much work involved, forget about it.
    >Actual weight: 1130g on my digital scale ; exactly within the claimed tolerances. This is a great weight for the money.
    >Clean (internal) cable routing ;
    >Included headset is decent quality (well there’s little more than the bearings…) Compression plug for carbon forks is a nice touch
    >Dropout spacing spot – on ; BB threads OK; Headset housing seems to have the right tolerance,but bearings not fitted yet.

    DON’T LIKE
    >Internal routing for rear brake - too much fuss (and bleeding required) for limited advantage
    >Chainstays are a bit on the chunky side, I expect a relatively harsh ride, we'll see.
    >No chainsuck protection plate embedded in the chainstays
    After a long wait due to a couple of misplaced orders (never buy anything around the Christmas period, lesson learned) , I finally started my build.

    I have to update my initial impressions about the headset cups - the fitting is slightly loose, to the point I could quite easily slip the bearings in and out.
    Not loose to the point of dropping, but loose enough to require some Loctite. I will keep you posted about the lifespan of this "repair", I think it will be permanent, but we'll see.

    Anyone had this experience?
    flyMTBfish

  112. #112
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    bumping the thread
    17 Fuel EX 9.9 (in progress)
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  113. #113
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    Was hoping Rhynope would give us some more pictures.
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  114. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhynope650b View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	my 650b.jpg 
Views:	948 
Size:	62.2 KB 
ID:	768658fixing one up now.... will have more pics and complete list of goodies to come
    That's the Flyxii(a_baygoods on ebay) FR-501 frame right?
    What size did you get and how tall are you if you don't mind me asking? Does the toptube feel short? How is the standover? What do you think is the max tire that will fit in the back?
    And, more pics please! I'm about to pull the trigger on this frame too. Just need to decide what size to get. I'm 5'9" so I usually ride medium or 17", 17.5" frames but this frame's really short top tube has me kind of worried.

  115. #115
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    More pictures...

  116. #116
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    is this a single pivot design?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blurbikerider View Post
    I did business with Shenzhen Honsen sports since Hong Fu never responded to my emails. Hong Fu mentions that their frame has convertable thru axle dropouts so I'm not sure if it's the same otherwise ,anyway i have attached a snapshot of the geometry chart they gave me .
    Looks like a faux bar design.
    Just Ride!

  117. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blurbikerider View Post
    Just received the new full suspension 650b frame through Shenzhen Honsen sports! I have been so happy with my converted superlight besides all the broken der.hangers I thought losing some weight would be nice.I weighed it as it came ,bare without shock and it is 3lb13oz . Now im just waiting on a few other parts to arrive so I can get out and test it !
    Ok ,just got to take it out for a short spin today,I should have waited for my chainguide to arrive though as I dropped the chain about 10 times even with a type 2 derailleur . Anyway ,the bike is excellent so far ,I didn't notice any brake jacking like with the Superlight and the 1.5lb lighter frame was certainly noticeable on acceleration and climbs. I have an old Float R Ava shock on it right now and It still felt better when standing and pedaling compared to the Superlight . Was thinking of getting a new fox ctd shock for it but that may be wasted money.Very happy with this cheap generic Chinese frame ,go suck it Santa Cruz !

  118. #118
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    Chinese 27er Bike pic

    Quote Originally Posted by Blurbikerider View Post
    Ok ,just got to take it out for a short spin today,I should have waited for my chainguide to arrive though as I dropped the chain about 10 times even with a type 2 derailleur . Anyway ,the bike is excellent so far ,I didn't notice any brake jacking like with the Superlight and the 1.5lb lighter frame was certainly noticeable on acceleration and climbs. I have an old Float R Ava shock on it right now and It still felt better when standing and pedaling compared to the Superlight . Was thinking of getting a new fox ctd shock for it but that may be wasted money.Very happy with this cheap generic Chinese frame ,go suck it Santa Cruz !
    I have attached a pic of the build.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Chinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition-27er.jpg  


  119. #119
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    Nice! I like the cat.

  120. #120
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    Did they ever give you an explinationof the paint issue?

  121. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blurbikerider View Post
    I have attached a pic of the build.
    More pics.... please???
    Cul is a regretted trademark of the CulBaire Co'op Pty Ltd, as are his random ramblings and associated bullshit.

  122. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramjm_2000 View Post
    Did they ever give you an explinationof the paint issue?
    When I originally asked about painting the frame I asked what colors and scheme examples he had and he said there were none available for this frame since it was so new. So for 28.00 I figured I would let them paint it whatever scheme and color they wanted. Well I guess the language barrier or something and they must consider the glossy coat as painted. To answer your question though , no he did not reply to my question.

  123. #123
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    Here's a few more pics .
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Chinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition-27er-.jpg  

    Chinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition-27er-b.jpg  

    Chinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition-27er-c.jpg  


  124. #124
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    Wow! The rear tire clearance is little bit tight. Is it really 650b frame?

  125. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristinka View Post
    Wow! The rear tire clearance is little bit tight. Is it really 650b frame?
    It is tight but the frame is xc 100 mm travel rather than all mountain ,perfect for here in the south east.

  126. #126
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    I wonder if it is the same frame as their 26er frame? As long as it works it makes no difference, I guess, but that is pretty tight clearance for a purpose-built frame.

  127. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by talabardio View Post
    I wonder if it is the same frame as their 26er frame? As long as it works it makes no difference, I guess, but that is pretty tight clearance for a purpose-built frame.
    It very well could be the 26er frame ,regardless I would have bought the 26er version a long time ago if I new the rear tire would fit.

  128. #128
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    It's a 17" frame. I have more pics just hadn't had the time to post. Crackedheadtube is a dear friend in helping me assemble this project. It's a beast.. Really love the way it rides. All carbon xx components. 22 lbs. I'm 5'7". I'd prolly go with the 19" frame for taller than 5-'8

  129. #129
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    Updated pics

    Chinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition-image.jpgChinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition-image.jpgChinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition-image.jpg

    This almost finished .waiting on the front deraileur.

  130. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhynope650b View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	image.jpg 
Views:	1797 
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ID:	774013
    Can you measure from the ground to the center of the BB for us?

    Big thanks if so!
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  131. #131
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    Anyone has purchased the FR-502 frame from szxgd store on ebay?

    ebay.com/itm/FR-502-Full-Carbon-3K-Glossy-Mountain-Bike-27-5-650B-Frame-Headset-17-19-21-/281067764881

    Greetings from Chile

  132. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blurbikerider View Post
    It is tight but the frame is xc 100 mm travel rather than all mountain ,perfect for here in the south east.
    What size tire are you running? Any more feedback on the suspension ride quality and pedal bob what be appreciated.
    Just Ride!

  133. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wveddy View Post
    What size tire are you running? Any more feedback on the suspension ride quality and pedal bob what be appreciated.
    I'm Running 2.2 Racing Ralphs on Crest rims which may spread the tire out a little. The bike rides great but I have only ridden Older model Santa cruz Blurs and a newer Superlight so I am comparing to those . There's just nothing about the suspension to think about ,its now just having fun beating all my own strava times. I only weigh 137 lbs so I don't know if that has anything to do with it ,I set the old Fox ava shock to 20% sag and havn't thought about it since. The only reason I would like a new shock is to shave some weight and be able to give my wife back her shock . I can tell the bike is super stiff and more so than my superlight but with less vibration .
    With all that said this frame could just be the same 26er model . Hong Fu mentions their model has changeable dropouts but these are not needed for a frame this stiff with 27" wheels imho .

  134. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhynope650b View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	image.jpg 
Views:	1797 
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ID:	774013Click image for larger version. 

Name:	image.jpg 
Views:	709 
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ID:	774014Click image for larger version. 

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    This almost finished .waiting on the front deraileur.
    rhynope650b your frame is the model fr-501 from flyxii .com?

    how was the quality?

  135. #135
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    Great quality. I ride the crap out of it wrecks included. Jumps and all trail conditions . Very light. All carbon bike it weights around 22 lbs +/-

  136. #136
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    It's been a few months now since the FM136 guys posts. How has the frame holding up? I'm in communications with Hongfu and ready to pull the trigger on a 16" frame for hardtail build. It's nighttime over there as of this posting so I have quite a few hours to decide.

  137. #137
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    Nancy (Hongfu) quoted me 705.00 on the FM196 shipped to the states. Lead time of 3 months....

  138. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by natron5000 View Post
    Nancy (Hongfu) quoted me 705.00 on the FM196 shipped to the states. Lead time of 3 months....
    I contacted Nancy today and she send me geometry chart for FM196.
    Just compared it with Scott Scale 700

    Chinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition-nino-geo.png

    and it looks like the chinese frame is pretty close to Scale, except the curved top tube

    sorry for my english...
    Lead time of 3 months
    does that mean you'll have to wait 3 months or...?

  139. #139
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    If we get 4 others together including myself, we can get the FM196 for $640 shipped. I would really like to pick one up at this price. Lets get this together guys!

  140. #140
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    I'm good for a group buy. (Velobuild has stopped doing group buys from Hongfu - this concerns me a little.)

    General questions, I am wondering if the FM196 is compatible w/ 156 Q-Factor. Also, I would be fitting it w/ an XX1 drivetrain. So, which is the cleaner conversion BB92 to BB30 or GXP? I am not experienced in any of those....

    This is the text from Nancy's email:

    the price:
    FM196:$615
    headset:$15(1-18".1-1/2")
    ship cost:$90

    the lead time for 17.5" is 3 month.all is inner cable routing.
    the warranty is 2 years under the normal use.
    the seat tube size is 31.6mm
    can stand 150KG.

  141. #141
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    I want to be in for the group buy on the FM196 small for $640 shipped.

  142. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blurbikerider View Post
    Ok ,just got to take it out for a short spin today,I should have waited for my chainguide to arrive though as I dropped the chain about 10 times even with a type 2 derailleur . Anyway ,the bike is excellent so far ,I didn't notice any brake jacking like with the Superlight and the 1.5lb lighter frame was certainly noticeable on acceleration and climbs. I have an old Float R Ava shock on it right now and It still felt better when standing and pedaling compared to the Superlight . Was thinking of getting a new fox ctd shock for it but that may be wasted money.Very happy with this cheap generic Chinese frame ,go suck it Santa Cruz !
    LOL so you buy a single pivot FS, then get a non single pivot and it rides better, yet that is SC fault.

    Know what your buying before you do next time.
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  143. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnybravo View Post
    If we get 4 others together including myself, we can get the FM196 for $640 shipped. I would really like to pick one up at this price. Lets get this together guys!

    I want to be in for the group buy on the FM196 small for $640 shipped.

  144. #144
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    I just need 2 more people to get in on this. BTW, where are you guys located? I'm wondering just in case they dont want to drop ship and I have to ship these out...

  145. #145
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    I suppose this is just for you guys in USA. I'm interested but I'm in Europe

  146. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnybravo View Post
    I just need 2 more people to get in on this. BTW, where are you guys located? I'm wondering just in case they dont want to drop ship and I have to ship these out...
    Orange Ca 92868

  147. #147
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    I don't like the big BB-offset of 53mm on the FM136 frame. May be better with a 29er fork..?

    The FLX-FR-501 has very smal BB-offset with its 36mm. And that is with a AC fork lenght of 472mm. I guess this is best used with a shorter rigid fork.

  148. #148
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    LHSN ~ I'v seen group buys that ship to multiple different continents. Not sure what Hongfu policy is, maybe run it past Nancy.

  149. #149
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    So here's the deal to save on shipping...2 frames fit per box. If 2 people live near by, they can get shipped to the same address. I live in San Jose, CA. I have my coworker who is getting a frame also. We need 4 others to make this deal happen. So the other 4 can go in pairs to 2 different addresses if needed.

  150. #150
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    just the BB is BB92mm, other is same as existing 27.5er frames.

  151. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motomatt View Post
    I want to be in for the group buy on the FM196 small for $640 shipped.
    it seems need a guide for group buy which contact supplier to buy and do payment, maybe it need send to guider's address, then he send frame to other members, a little trouble!

  152. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by morphtcat View Post
    Sure. Here you go. Hopefully this works correctly. The bike is a little dirty, sorry















    so beautiful 27.5er frame

  153. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blurbikerider View Post
    It was 747.00 without paint and shipped from China to Florida.
    the sample price for 27.5er suspension: 660usd/set
    Last edited by Bella Xu; 06-17-2013 at 09:30 PM.

  154. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by FNFAL View Post
    I'm interested in this as well. I'll be wanting to build up a 650b rigid carbon bike from a cheap chinese frame sometime in the future. Having ride reports would be nice.
    normally china 650b hardtail frame:375-400usd/set

  155. #155
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    May I report to the group about my attempt to purchase a FS 650B frame form HongFu sports Equipment Co.,Ltd.

    First, the good. Looking at the model HF-FM156 (2013 650B Full Suspension), I came to the conclusion that the design is well thought-out and fits my riding style almost perfectly.

    The suspension is simple but sturdy; incorporating all the design elements I learned to like in this class of bikes: 13"+ BB, frame suspension butted against the top tube, minimal of pivot points (no fancy geometry claims) and 68 deg. head angle. The 108 mm (4.25") rear and 120 mm (4.72") front suspension is odd is some ways, because virtually all of the mainstream FS bikes have matching suspension travels -- wondering why. More about this later...

    The medium (18") frame weight is listed at 1900 grams that is light; not unlike the quoted price of $700.00 that is also sweet. So I have placed an order for the frame along with other parts that would fit the bike and was available to order; totaling just under $1k. Order placed/paid on April 29th.

    Secondly, the not so good. Ever since there is no shipment, despite very active communications with Nancy. I was promised to be shipped in May and now is shipping "this month" (June). After pushing for a firm shipping date I have learned that there is a manufacturing problem that was not disclosed to me before.

    Quote from Nancy:
    ....
    now all customers are waiting the the frame.
    please understand,
    FM156 frame have a little problen on the seat stay.
    we need solve it and proceed to produce it.
    ...

    I tend to be patient and understand problems, but China is a long way from Simi Valley and don't know what to think now. There seem to be some track record established here for Hongfu bikes, but not enough to make me worry free.

    Wondering if someone has more insight here.

    Reference:
    HF-FM156-M.pdf (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0v1...it?usp=sharing)

    Cheers,
    Zoltan

  156. #156
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    I've always felt that no manufacturer is flawless. It's how they handle the flaws that set them apart. Shipping you a frame with a known flaw would be bad. Delaying shipment while they resolve the issue, not so bad. I would say be patient and see what they do. FWIW, my FM136 has been fantastic. They had it in stock when I ordered it last November so I got it right away. It's a quality product at a really good price. That really good price is worth a little patience...

  157. #157
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    I feel better now... Don't mind if there is a good reason and the communications are open. So I will wait a while, let's see what happens. Thank you for giving a positive feedback!

  158. #158
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    Hello

    My project...Scott SPARK 650B

  159. #159
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    Wait..what?!?

    I'm all for "box from taiwan" frames. But you went to all that trouble to source/make Scott stickers and even paint the rear triangle!? I just don't get it..Though the "prototype" stickers do add a nice touch. The icing on the cardboard cake so to speak.

    Genuine question: What happens when someone rolls up to you and says, "Whoa! Where did you get a prototype 650b Spark!? I didn't even think you could buy one yet!" What do you tell them?
    www.msmtb.org - Mississippi Mountain Biking

  160. #160
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    Nice cake, indeed.... :-)

    But wait! ohpossum! If I am correct, vicaru is from Columbia... Now I am pretty familiar with the US trademark laws, but I would not comment on that other country. He might as well be OK with it and anyhow, vicaru is an alias for Scott :-)

    Well, I would not do the sticker thing myself, but the bike certainly looks awesome.

    What kind of fork are you using (model/travel)? How is the ride?

  161. #161
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    What happened with the pictures? Just curious...

    Quote Originally Posted by vicaru View Post
    Hello

    My project...Scott SPARK 650B

  162. #162
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    Iplay have 27.5er carbon rims/wheels available, 1320g/pair (Novatec hubs+Sapim spokes/nipples). pls contact with me: [email protected]

  163. #163
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    edited

  164. #164
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    Hi! I'm thinking about the FM156 from Deng Fu/Hong Fu/whoever and I'm wondering does anyone know what geometry/frame style this bike is based upon?

    Chinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition-fm156.jpg

    Chinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition-fm156_geometry.jpg

  165. #165
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    I found the Scott Genius 700 to be the closest. However, this frame comes with only 108 mm rear axle travel (6.5 frame shock) vs. the Scott's 140.

    BTW, I just got the frame -- so far so good :-)
    Last edited by halyho; 07-06-2013 at 03:24 PM.

  166. #166
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    I've been riding the bike for 6 months now, including 4 endurance races (6 hour solo) and it's holding up just fine. No issues.

  167. #167
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    Great News, IP-136 and IP-156 frame QR&142mm axle dropouts swappable

    Great news for IP-136 hadrtail frame and IP-156 full suspension 650b frame. Now we make these two frames swappable 135mm QR and 142mm axle dropouts.

    Attached some pictures for reference.

    Email: [email protected]
    Skype: peterque520
    Website: Xiamen Iplay Sporting Goods Co.,Ltd.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Chinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition-ip-156.jpg  

    Chinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition-qr-142axle-dropouts.jpg  

    Chinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition-img_4855.jpg  

    Chinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition-new-dropout-135mm-qr-2.jpg  

    Chinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition-dropout-142-axle-1-piece-version-1.jpg  


  168. #168
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    Peter,

    What kind of axle hardware are you recommending for the 142 dropout? It looks like a set screw is needed on the last picture. Do you supply the nut?

    Thx

  169. #169
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    I tried to get the new ultra-light FM196 frame but it won't be available in large for a while. I settled for the FR-502 frame. About 300g heavier and $500 cheaper. I got the accompanying rigid fork and will have it built next week. Frame, fork, headset and shipping were $460.
    Keep the Country country.

  170. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by halyho View Post
    Peter,

    What kind of axle hardware are you recommending for the 142 dropout? It looks like a set screw is needed on the last picture. Do you supply the nut?

    Thx
    Shimano Axle as attached I think. Sorry we don't supply the nut.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  171. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lelandjt View Post
    I tried to get the new ultra-light FM196 frame but it won't be available in large for a while. I settled for the FR-502 frame. About 300g heavier and $500 cheaper. I got the accompanying rigid fork and will have it built next week. Frame, fork, headset and shipping were $460.
    Now we have ultra-light IP-196 frame in stock.

  172. #172
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    Do you mean Shimano SM-AX75 Rear Thru Axle Quick Release (12x142-mm) Like this one at Amazon?

    I hope the fixing nut will fit into the hanger's cavity.

    Do you know by any chance what is the dimension of the set screw?

  173. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by peterque View Post
    Now we have ultra-light IP-196 frame in stock.
    2 days ago I was told the 21" size still needed testing and an availability date was unknown. Only 17" & 19" are available.
    Keep the Country country.

  174. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by halyho View Post
    Do you mean Shimano SM-AX75 Rear Thru Axle Quick Release (12x142-mm) Like this one at Amazon?

    I hope the fixing nut will fit into the hanger's cavity.

    Do you know by any chance what is the dimension of the set screw?
    Sorry, I can't open the link. I sold many IP-057 29er frame for 142 axle, maybe you can find the answer on "Chinese carbon 29er" thread.

  175. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lelandjt View Post
    2 days ago I was told the 21" size still needed testing and an availability date was unknown. Only 17" & 19" are available.
    Oh sorry, I don't know you need a large frame.

  176. #176
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    Oh, thanks. Just have to order and see if it fits.

    Can you answer my question regarding the set screw size?

    THX.

  177. #177
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    Any of these supporting a 140mm fork yet?

    Hoping to do a 659er.
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  178. #178
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    Hi Peter,

    I am not sure what company you are with, but I bought a frame from HongFu Bikes (FM-156) that looks just like this. I also have the same derailleur hanger pictured by you. I hope you and Nancy will pay attention to this :-)

    I have a problem with he design and I am just copying the the email I have sent to Nancy Huang at [email protected]:

    ----------------

    I have spent researching the 142x12 dropout issue and the situation is a lot worst then I thought. There is a design flaw and structural problem with the rear triangle and the way the dropout is implemented.

    1. The frame attachment does not provide for a positive stop in "down" direction. The only structural support is provided by two attachment screws that screw into the hanger itself. The thread only provides for minimal holding

    2. The inserted axle cutout is pulling on two small holes drilled into the carbon fiber tab, instead of a cutout for the whole axle (what is the reason on the first place for the implementation of a hollow 12 mm through axle). This implementation is technically worst then a traditional QR skewer attachment.

    3. The hanger itself attaches to the frame using a fixed width slot to the frame tab. The fixed slot prevents a positive locking action through the force of the axle pressure, creating a constant loose connection between the frame in two directions: parallel to the axle and radial to the axle due to the loose fit of the hanger attachment screws and the frame for them.

    4. The hanger attachment tab of the rear triangle is made of carbon fiber instead of a metal insert that rectifies the loose fit and long-term exposure of trail pounding.

    Please see the attached images I took.
    Chinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition-hungfu-hanger_page_1_image_0001.jpgChinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition-hungfu-hanger_page_2_image_0001.jpgChinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition-hungfu-hanger_page_3_image_0001.jpgChinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition-hungfu-hanger_page_4_image_0001.jpgChinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition-hungfu-hanger_page_5_image_0001.jpgChinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition-hungfu-hanger_page_6_image_0001.jpgChinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition-hungfu-hanger_page_7_image_0001.jpg

    As an example, here is an implementation that has (a) positive retention for axle, hanger and frame (b) thread for axle (c) solid, rigid design:

    Chinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition-turner-burner-650b-27.5-dw-link-frame-6-600x429.jpgChinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition-turner-burner-post-mounts-600x400.jpg

    FYI, the images are from Just In: Turner Burner 650b Frame

    You have mentioned earlier that you had problems with the rear triangle. I am just wondering if I got an old production unit or is this the latest version.

    At this moment I am nmot feeling comfortable using this frame from the constant fear that it will fall apart under me.

    I am not sure if there is a short term solution for this as I think the rear triangle design has to be radically changed.

    The bike is not assembled yet so if you can not provide a reasonable solution to the above problems, I am ready to return it to you for a full refund.

    -------------

    Awaiting for a resolution.

    Quote Originally Posted by peterque View Post
    Great news for IP-136 hadrtail frame and IP-156 full suspension 650b frame. Now we make these two frames swappable 135mm QR and 142mm axle dropouts.

    Attached some pictures for reference.

    Email: [email protected]
    Skype: peterque520
    Website: Xiamen Iplay Sporting Goods Co.,Ltd.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Chinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition-turner-burner-650b-27.5-dw-link-frame-6.jpg  


  179. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by halyho View Post
    Hi Peter,

    I am not sure what company you are with, but I bought a frame from HongFu Bikes (FM-156) that looks just like this. I also have the same derailleur hanger pictured by you. I hope you and Nancy will pay attention to this :-)
    ...
    Awaiting for a resolution.
    Have you received a response about this? I'm interested in this same frame but don't want to end up with the same issue.

  180. #180
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    Not yet; it's late in China; I will give and update. I really like the frame other then this unfortunate issue. But a frame is only as strong as the weakest point. Just like chains :-)

    Quote Originally Posted by illegalsmile View Post
    Have you received a response about this? I'm interested in this same frame but don't want to end up with the same issue.

  181. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by halyho View Post
    Hi Peter,

    I am not sure what company you are with, but I bought a frame from HongFu Bikes (FM-156) that looks just like this. I also have the same derailleur hanger pictured by you. I hope you and Nancy will pay attention to this :-)

    I have a problem with he design and I am just copying the the email I have sent to Nancy Huang at [email protected]:
    Hello halyho,

    Thanks for your questions! I work for Xiamen Iplay sporting Goods Co.,Ltd, not for HongFu bikes, but we do sell a few same frames.

    1. I think Nancy will solve the issue well. She will deliver your questions to factory first and see what the problem is.

    2. Once she gets the answer from factory, she will be back to you in time and tell you how to solve this.

    3. I think HongFu is a responsible company known by most people and has good reputation, I think you can trust them and see what will happen next.

    Sorry, now IP-156 frame rear dropout design is same, but I have never seen this problem before. I want to know what they gonna say too.

    Maybe you can ask someone who bought this frame before, see if they have this same problem or not. I will help you to ask factory also, as soon as I know the answer I will let you know. But now is weekend in China, I hope you could be a little patient.

    Email: [email protected]
    Skype: peterque520
    Website: Xiamen Iplay Sporting Goods Co.,Ltd.
    Xiamen Iplay Sporting Goods Co., Ltd. - Seat Post,Cartridge Headset

  182. #182
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    The frame I have on order has this same dropout system and it looked a little sketchy to me. I'm using a QR setup with a flexyish wheel on a hardtail so I probably won't push it enough to make this the weak link but if I had a thru-axle on a suspension frame I'd expect to have more flex in that spot than on another 142 frame.
    Keep the Country country.

  183. #183
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    If the QR works there is no reason that the 12mm axle not to

    try to use carbon assembly paste just to be sure and the correct of the alxe will do the job

    if you manage to crack it good guy Peter or Nancy must replace the frame in warranty due to bad system design (i don't see any bad )

    Kudos to Peter for service level 9000

  184. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by morphtcat View Post
    Just joined so that I can post about my new-to-me Hongfu FM-136. My background: I grew up riding bikes and then took a 20 year hiatus from it. I got back into it by doing triathlons and road racing since 2007 and then started doing cyclocross a few years ago. Discovered that I preferred that to road racing and noodled on the idea of getting an MTB for a long time. Because I research everything to death, I decided to wait until I could get a 650B bike built.

    After looking around a lot and reading a lot of the discussion here on the Hongfu FM-136, I opted to take the plunge and get one. I've attached a picture of my bike that I just completed on Saturday.

    The build is:

    Hongfu FM-136 650B frame in size 18 (I'm 5'10 with a 31.5" inseam), 1050grams as weighed by my not-so-precise scale
    90mm 6 degree rise stem
    Rockshox Revelation XX 650B fork - they have 100mm travel, and the frame was designed for 100mm travel
    light-bicycle.com 25mm rim 650B tubeless ready wheels with 15QR, 32 spoke count, novatec hubs, weighed in at 1525 grams
    SRAM XO 2x10 42/28 175mm crank with 11-36 cassette, type 2 rear derailleur
    Schwalbe Rocket Ron 650B 2.25" tires, tubeless
    Selle San Marco Aspide Arrowhead saddle

    The build took me about a week to complete, which was more a function of me taking my time because I'm unfamiliar with building MTBs (I've built about 6 bikes, all of them road bikes and those typically take me about 1-2 days). I had to learn about

    The only things I had an issue with were (1) one of the holes on the stem wasn't threaded, so I had to thread that with a tap. Similarly, one of the holes for the rear disc brake mount wasn't threaded, so I had to thread that. Given the small spaces there, that was a PITA, but not insurmountable.

    Threading the rear brake cable through the frame was trivial. Bleeding the brake was equally trivial and took me < 30 minutes. Given that it was the 1st time I'd ever bled a hydraulic brake, I think that the next time would be faster.

    I'm not sure that I'm the right person to comment on ride harshness given that my only reference point is riding a cyclocross bike on MTB trails (insanely jarring, btw). While the FM-136 is much, much smoother than the CX bike, bumps aren't eliminated - you still feel them. I'm still tuning my suspension and tire pressure, so that's probably still a huge factor. That said, the bike is super controllable and predictable. The geometry is perfect for me and for my intent (XC racing). It rails around corners like there's no tomorrow - I can go around tight twisty singletrack much, much faster than on my CX bike, and that's not because of the suspension.

    Anyways, I'm incredibly impressed with the build quality of the frame and the responsiveness of the thing. Right now I can't find anything about it that I don't like other than the fact that a single-bolt seat post is probably not the best choice for a MTB - it doesn't stay horizontal.

    With that said, here's the pic:

    [Umm, apparently you can't post the link when you have < 10 posts. Super]

    OK, maybe a gallery pic will work?

    Nope, apparently not. Gngngngn.

    very nice build! Do you have the total amount that you paid for all that?

  185. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by champsk View Post
    very nice build! Do you have the total amount that you paid for all that?
    We have IP-136 (FM136) in stock now. If you had interest please feel free to contact me.

    Email: [email protected]
    Skype: peterque520
    Website: www.xmiplay.com

  186. #186
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    Hi Peter,

    Thank you so much for your response; I appreciate your concern despite I did not buy the frame from you.

    Nancy asked me to send pictures of the dropout on the other side (that I did; similar problems). Her response is:

    -------- quote -------------

    thank you for your all information.

    the frame FM156 all is the design like I sent to you.
    because the frame can be 135QR and 142mm Axle interchanged.
    the one send to me(the picture) is just can be 142mm Axle.
    and you can also check in our website,the description and the picture all can show that.

    if you choose 135mm QR,it is the one in our website.choosen 142mm Axle,it is the one that I send to you.

    any further questions,please let me know.

    -------- quote -------------


    Well, I did not get too much of an answer; engineering or manufacturing is obviously not involved in the loop and I see no good will to take care of the problems. Considering that I have waited more then 2 months for the delivery I certainly expected at least a sensible answer. What a waste of time.

    Too bad actually because a properly implemented 142x12 axle solution would take this frame a long way.

    I will arrange for the return of the frame; I hope among Paypal and Amex won't have any problem with the refund.

    Peter, thanks and good luck and I hope you guys will sort out the problems.

  187. #187
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    My point is that the 12mm axle requires a different design to provide an inherently stiffer solution and more reliable wheel retention. I don't have any problem with the design for the QR dropout and my expectations are accordingly a lot lower. However, I would not have considered a QR axle for a FS carbon frame.

    Thanks for your suggestion regarding the repair but I would rather not go that way. I think a metal insert of some sort is needed for a proper solution for this frame.

    Regarding cracking the frame: I am too old to be a test medium, sorry pal.

    You're right about Peter; good service, the Shimano axle will fit (however, no answer to my question regarding the set screw).

    Quote Originally Posted by em2 View Post
    If the QR works there is no reason that the 12mm axle not to

    try to use carbon assembly paste just to be sure and the correct of the alxe will do the job

    if you manage to crack it good guy Peter or Nancy must replace the frame in warranty due to bad system design (i don't see any bad )

    Kudos to Peter for service level 9000

  188. #188
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    A lot of properly implemented design changes would take this frame a long way, but for $350 a lot can be looked over.

    This is a good "upgrade" frame, because it allow you to use your current wheels, but would allow you to upgrade to 12x142 later on. Not perfect, but by the time you upgrade again I'm sure changes will be made.

    The design of these frames is not to compete with $1500+ frames, it designed to be high volume, easy to sell, cheap frames that many Americans are willing to sacrifice customer service, quick ship time, and many design features to purchase for $350.

    Many in this forum purchase these frames knowing there will be problems, knowing there will be funky designs and slow ship times, and there are multitudes of pictures of every little detail imaginable, so I cannot see how anyone could read this thread, purchase a frame, only to send it back because they were expecting $1500 quality.

    This isn't to say that the Chinese manufactures who produce these frames should listen to their customers, because issues like these obviously are important, but to bash the sellers is like purchasing a Kia and expecting a Mercedes.
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  189. #189
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    Sorry, I think I have replied to the wrong thread. You are talking about a $350 hardtail, while I am discussing the $700 (+$100 shipping) FS frame.

    While at it, if I add the $400 frame shock, I am at $1,100 that is now comparable to frames in the $2k+ range with excellent resale value and retail service. Buying direct and forgoing marketing and brand value we are comparing now apples to apples and my expectations are all of a sudden a lot higher. As a minimum, I would expect proper engineering by any company who is putting a frame under my butt. I can work around schedule, features and manufacturing problems, no problem.

    Regarding bashing, I was extremely tolerant with HongFu bikes (as you might see from my previous posts); also spared other details from the group. However, when it comes to commitment and standing behind a product, I don't see any reason to differentiate between any company. I am sure, the situation would be different in an OEM relationship (I guess the majority of manufacturer's business) where the larger order would direct the attention to the right place.

    Needless to say I am not happy that I am sending the frame back just before building. Many of the $4K I have spent on components need to be changed now to adopted to a new frame.

    Nevertheless I feel fortunate enough to be able to use this forum to provide feedback to future purchasers and to voice my point of view/opinion among the many.

    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post
    A lot of properly implemented design changes would take this frame a long way, but for $350 a lot can be looked over.

    This is a good "upgrade" frame, because it allow you to use your current wheels, but would allow you to upgrade to 12x142 later on. Not perfect, but by the time you upgrade again I'm sure changes will be made.

    The design of these frames is not to compete with $1500+ frames, it designed to be high volume, easy to sell, cheap frames that many Americans are willing to sacrifice customer service, quick ship time, and many design features to purchase for $350.

    Many in this forum purchase these frames knowing there will be problems, knowing there will be funky designs and slow ship times, and there are multitudes of pictures of every little detail imaginable, so I cannot see how anyone could read this thread, purchase a frame, only to send it back because they were expecting $1500 quality.

    This isn't to say that the Chinese manufactures who produce these frames should listen to their customers, because issues like these obviously are important, but to bash the sellers is like purchasing a Kia and expecting a Mercedes.

  190. #190
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    Do you have any suggestions on how a proper interchangeable drop-out should look?

    Maybe we can croud-source a design alternative for the Chinese.
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  191. #191
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    If it were my frame, I'd sand any clear coat off the tab that the hanger "attaches" to then epoxy the hanger to the tab with some quality epoxy. Then I'd ride the snot out of it.

    In my opinion, the value of your time taken to try to send it back to get a refund will rapidly approach the cost of the frame. I've purchased a factory-backdoor road frame and 3 sets of Chinese carbon wheels and my experience is that getting a refund is damn near impossible. You can get exchanges relatively easily but getting your money back will be a challenge.
    www.msmtb.org - Mississippi Mountain Biking

  192. #192
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    That is an excellent idea, but not trivial. Things are crowded on the FM-156 frame because of the rear pivot point.

    A new design would require 2 changes:

    (1) Embed/replace a machined alloy plate as a structural part of the carbon fiber chain-stay
    (2) Redesign or use an existing dropout that attaches to the embedded plate using a locking design and/or properly sized (torque-able) screws.

    Here is an example dropout that would possibly work:

    www.paragonmachineworks.com - B4030RightSideInsertforRockerDropoutHangerShimano1 42x12Skewer

    Please note the pin and the two sizable attachment screws. Guessing that the upper contour will provide additional positive lock.

    Anyhow, the manufacturer must be involved one or other way to implement something similar.

    Please let me know what you think!

    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post
    Do you have any suggestions on how a proper interchangeable drop-out should look?

    Maybe we can croud-source a design alternative for the Chinese.

  193. #193
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    Your advice is well taken -- I hope I don't have to resort to the epoxy route. I still hope to have a solution from the MFG-er after all this fuzz...

    Quote Originally Posted by ohpossum View Post
    If it were my frame, I'd sand any clear coat off the tab that the hanger "attaches" to then epoxy the hanger to the tab with some quality epoxy. Then I'd ride the snot out of it.

    In my opinion, the value of your time taken to try to send it back to get a refund will rapidly approach the cost of the frame. I've purchased a factory-backdoor road frame and 3 sets of Chinese carbon wheels and my experience is that getting a refund is damn near impossible. You can get exchanges relatively easily but getting your money back will be a challenge.

  194. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by halyho View Post
    Hi Peter,

    Thank you so much for your response; I appreciate your concern despite I did not buy the frame from you.

    Nancy asked me to send pictures of the dropout on the other side (that I did; similar problems). Her response is:

    -------- quote -------------

    thank you for your all information.

    the frame FM156 all is the design like I sent to you.
    because the frame can be 135QR and 142mm Axle interchanged.
    the one send to me(the picture) is just can be 142mm Axle.
    and you can also check in our website,the description and the picture all can show that.

    if you choose 135mm QR,it is the one in our website.choosen 142mm Axle,it is the one that I send to you.

    any further questions,please let me know.

    -------- quote -------------


    Well, I did not get too much of an answer; engineering or manufacturing is obviously not involved in the loop and I see no good will to take care of the problems. Considering that I have waited more then 2 months for the delivery I certainly expected at least a sensible answer. What a waste of time.

    Too bad actually because a properly implemented 142x12 axle solution would take this frame a long way.

    I will arrange for the return of the frame; I hope among Paypal and Amex won't have any problem with the refund.

    Peter, thanks and good luck and I hope you guys will sort out the problems.
    Hello Halyho,

    If possible. Could you dismount the dropouts (both left and right pieces)? And take some pictures and send them to my email ? My concern is maybe the left side piece is not matching for your right dropout.

    Thanks and Regards,
    Peter

    Email: [email protected]
    Skype: peterque520
    Website: Xiamen Iplay Sporting Goods Co.,Ltd.

  195. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by halyho View Post
    A new design would require 2 changes:

    (1) Embed/replace a machined alloy plate as a structural part of the carbon fiber chain-stay
    (2) Redesign or use an existing dropout that attaches to the embedded plate using a locking design and/or properly sized (torque-able) screws.

    Here is an example dropout that would possibly work:

    www.paragonmachineworks.com - B4030RightSideInsertforRockerDropoutHangerShimano1 42x12Skewer

    Please note the pin and the two sizable attachment screws. Guessing that the upper contour will provide additional positive lock.
    Also realize that the Paragon Dropout acts as the rear drop out completely, and in some cases forms the joint between the chainstay and seatstay. Without the Paragon Dropout, a frame designed for it would have nothing to catch or hold any type of axle. It needs those sizable bolts because without those bolts the whole assembly would just fall off the back of the bike.

    Additionally, take a look at most sliding drop outs. They usually feature to small 10mm bolts that hold both sides on the bike. Granted these are usually on hard tails, but from the looks of it, those bolts seems quite small to hold the entire dropout assembly on the bike, but manufacturers such a Kona run them without issue.

    If we compare these two dropout styles to those on the Chinese frames, the Chinese frames are designed a bit differently. Remove the "convertible" dropouts and you'll notice the frame has an "unfinished" dropout that actually holds the bolt-on assembly. Most of the stress is probably on that piece of the frame rather than on the bolts themselves.

    I'd like to see larger fastening bolts on the drop-outs, and maybe like you said a larger dropout piece in general with metal attachment points on the frame, but I'm not sure I'd consider the Chinese frame anymore unsafe than others on the market.
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  196. #196
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    Good points. Please consider that the most crucial aspect in the Chinese design is the carbon fiber tab holding the dropout.

    Carbon fibers are strong only in one direction: tension along the fiber. They are not able to carry compressive and bending load. Compression is absorbed by the filling resin and is subject to creep and fatigue due to the constant pressure exerted by the hub axles and the additional bending forces due to dynamic side load (cornering etc...).

    To deal with the compression and bending load you need a metal insert that will properly transfer the forces to the frame. That is the precise reason you will find a metal tube/junction insert in the bottom bracket and suspension links on carbon fiber frames.

    Attaching a dropout to a metal plate is a lot easier engineering task now and it's really hard to screw up (but can be done :-).

    As a general remark, QR worked well for a long time. However, as technology advances, we are expecting more and more from our bikes. There is now no clear distinction between trail and XC bikes; the modern tires, strong wheels, light and strong forks, shocks and brakes enable easy climbing and brave descent. That is the reason we have the new, strong 150/142/135/12/20 axles and need to pay attention to good frame design details.

    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post
    Also realize that the Paragon Dropout acts as the rear drop out completely, and in some cases forms the joint between the chainstay and seatstay. Without the Paragon Dropout, a frame designed for it would have nothing to catch or hold any type of axle. It needs those sizable bolts because without those bolts the whole assembly would just fall off the back of the bike.

    Additionally, take a look at most sliding drop outs. They usually feature to small 10mm bolts that hold both sides on the bike. Granted these are usually on hard tails, but from the looks of it, those bolts seems quite small to hold the entire dropout assembly on the bike, but manufacturers such a Kona run them without issue.

    If we compare these two dropout styles to those on the Chinese frames, the Chinese frames are designed a bit differently. Remove the "convertible" dropouts and you'll notice the frame has an "unfinished" dropout that actually holds the bolt-on assembly. Most of the stress is probably on that piece of the frame rather than on the bolts themselves.

    I'd like to see larger fastening bolts on the drop-outs, and maybe like you said a larger dropout piece in general with metal attachment points on the frame, but I'm not sure I'd consider the Chinese frame anymore unsafe than others on the market.

  197. #197
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    Just looking at my wife's 2001 Trac carbon hardtale, realized that proper dropout design has been figured out already. Please pay attention to the metal portion of the frame.
    Chinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition-dsc_0097.jpgChinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition-dsc_0098.jpgChinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition-dsc_0099.jpg

  198. #198
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    Update to the group about HongFu's feedback regarding my request to return the frame:

    -------- quote from Nancy -------------
    I had send your picture to our engineer,and have no problem in the picutre,
    you said is our design is bad.but all is the same design,and a lot of frame had shipped out,have no feedback is the design have problem,
    if not the quality problem,I accept you reback to me,
    but the ship cost we will not responsible for it.
    if it is the quality problem,we will responsible for it in 2 years.
    -------- quote -------------


    The way I understand is they are willing to take back the frame, but are not willing to pay for the shipping charges (not sure if both or one way).

    I did not get any feedback regarding my engineering arguments and not sure if Nancy was communicating it correctly to whoever is the manufacturer or engineer in charge. They are certainly not open to make any changes as I read it from the answer. The argument of having the same design for many frames does not fly with me. They just might have a bigger problem.

    Might as well send back the frame, cut my losses and go for the Intense Carbide 275 (have an offer for $2600, including tax, shock and axle).

  199. #199
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    What you are experiencing is just what one would expect from "copycat" Chinese production. Zero R&D, copy (read...steal) popular frame design, and the hell with providing customer service. It will cost you (and your children) in the long run.

  200. #200
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    Re: Chinese Carbon Frames - 650b edition

    I've been dealing with a lot of different Chinese companies, purchasing different technical products and materials, but never bicycles or bicycle parts.

    The e-mails above look very familiar. Chinese companies are currently trying very hard but their product quality is not quite there yet. I have never got a refund on anything and the companies always say that you are the only one with this issue. They are very good with e-mails but that's about it. Most of the people you deal with in English are agents possibly working for many different companies not necessarily understanding much on the product itself.

    Just from my experience, if you ordrer anything from China, there's a 10% chance you get what you wanted and 100% chance you won't get a refund if it's not.

    I'm now purchasing very little stuff from China and after all the time wasted concentrate on other countries instead. In fairness I have to say that there still are two great companies from China I still work with, but that must be the 10%.

    If you can't afford to buy a replacement for the one you are planning to buy from China in case it turns out to be crap, don't waste your money but buy something from closer to home.

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