China Carbon AM Duallies- Mtbr.com
Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 200 of 821
  1. #1
    A waste of time it is is
    Reputation: emu26's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,438

    China Carbon AM Duallies

    OK, given the other China carbon thread is already confusing enough with both a mix of hardtails and dual suspension xc bikes, I kind of thought it might be an idea to start a separate thread for the new AM bikes that are starting to appear, thanks natron5000 for that early find.

    As usual there seem to be lots of sellers already trying to promote a product they don't have their hands on and seem to have even less information about. Hong -Fu's FB page don't really seem to answer any important questions so I tried my luck with their proper site and was surprised how quickly I got the following information. Sorry, I have been sitting on this for a couple of days not wanting to make public emails but hey, there really is interest picking up on that other thread and I figure it will be available publicly soon anyway.

    What I have so far
    FM-336
    Frame is designed for a 150mm fork (A-C on geo chart below)
    Shock is a 200 x 50.8 but I can't get a firm "it is a 150mm rear travel bike"
    Sizes range from 15.5" to 20.5" but "now only 15.5 and 17.5 in producing"
    Frame weight on a 17.5 is 2649 gm but no confirmation on whether or not this includes hanger and rear axle.
    Price, well lets just say it is more than the xc frames (sorry, that one I am keeping quiet) but I will say that I think by the time it is delivered and you fit a quality shock with hardware it will be north of $1400
    petepeterson has got that it will be a BB92, I didn't think to ask.

    China Carbon AM Duallies-fm336-2d.jpg

    Let the "its a copy of x" discussions begin

    Maybe the mods can move the previous comments about this frame made in this thread over here?

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    18
    The geometry drawings States 150mm rear wheel travel

  3. #3
    A waste of time it is is
    Reputation: emu26's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,438
    Is that the chinese script or did I miss something obvious? Thanks Pete

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    18
    It's the text on the far left with the arrow.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: andyfloyd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    486
    Like someone else said looks similar to a pivot mach 5.7....I like it
    2014 27.5" SC Blur TRa:cool: - 2014 IP-106 Chiner 29er :nono: - 2005 Fuji Team SL 16.2lbs -:thumbsup:

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    13
    Hey guys - I live in China and am currently working with a local bike factory on a carbon hardtail frame and some carbon wheels . . . .

    Anyway if you guys want to put together a list of questions that have not been able to get answered and i can try to help get more information.

    I am going to pick up some parts Saturday afternoon so I will at least see if they have this frame available.

    jeff

  7. #7
    Rocks belong
    Reputation: 06HokieMTB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    5,149
    A Pivot Chinese carbon knockoff... Interesting

    Wonder how they'll get around the dual-link patents in the US?

    440mm/17.3" chainstay... assuming it's a 650b?
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    13
    If the patents where not filed in China they can not be enforced on the manufacture of products in China - probable just be limited to getting them to stop the sell in US market (but would be tough to enforce in small volume). Actually if the patents where not filed in China, then one of the local manufacturers can patent them in PRC and then block any other manufatucturer (even the orginal patent devloper!) from being able to manufacture and export from China. . . . Similar to what just happened to Tesla

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: trap121's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    331

    China Carbon AM Duallies

    Where or how can someone buy this?

  10. #10
    Rocks belong
    Reputation: 06HokieMTB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    5,149
    Quote Originally Posted by trap121 View Post
    Where or how can someone buy this?
    Ditto.
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  11. #11
    bike rider
    Reputation: Lelandjt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    5,434
    Quote Originally Posted by hokiebrett View Post
    A Pivot Chinese carbon knockoff... Interesting

    Wonder how they'll get around the dual-link patents in the US?

    440mm/17.3" chainstay... assuming it's a 650b?
    No problem. That's why you already see lots of dual link bikes in the US. DW is very specific about wheel path. A slightly different wheel path and it's okay. VPP is about counter rotating links. If they swing the same direction it's okay.
    Keep the Country country.

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    13
    Trap- google hong fu bikes

    Does anyone know when they plan to make the larger sizes? Also does HF give anytype of warranty on their frames and wheelsets? I got a.price from xmi for the ip 156 the other dual sus 650b frame and was quoted 600$ flat. OP do you really think the 336 frame will be almost double the price? Seems a little steep, I definitely want to pick up a L/XL frame ASAP and slowly build it up.

  13. #13
    Rocks belong
    Reputation: 06HokieMTB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    5,149
    The IP-156 is basically a Scott knock off... Linkage driven SP.

    This, being a dual link, I'm sure is more complex to manufacture. The IP-156 (and other variants... 036, etc) aren't know for the tightest bearing interfaces and bearing area QC. The dual link design is going to demand very strict/tight tolerances... This is intriguing
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation: andyfloyd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    486
    They said this will be available in november. Ill be snapping one up as soon as they are available. I have a XMI IP-106 and its build quality was great so I feel good about this I think. Will wait for more info but pretty sure Im going down this road when its available.
    2014 27.5" SC Blur TRa:cool: - 2014 IP-106 Chiner 29er :nono: - 2005 Fuji Team SL 16.2lbs -:thumbsup:

  15. #15
    A waste of time it is is
    Reputation: emu26's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,438
    Quote Originally Posted by NYCDiesel View Post
    OP do you really think the 336 frame will be almost double the price? Seems a little steep, I definitely want to pick up a L/XL frame ASAP and slowly build it up.
    No, it's not double but you still have to buy a rear shock which is why I said about $1400 depending on which shock you get. Let it put to you this way, if you put a fox on it it will probably be under $1400, if you put a ccdb on it then it will probably be more than $1400.

    Andyfloyd is right with delivery times, I was told 45 - 60 days after payment which would be around November, not sure on the larger two sizes though, maybe a Christmas present?

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation: scottay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    983
    Quote Originally Posted by NYCDiesel View Post
    . OP do you really think the 336 frame will be almost double the price? Seems a little steep,
    I saw it quoted at $850 USD, sans shock.
    Last edited by scottay; 08-28-2014 at 05:44 PM.

  17. #17
    bike rider
    Reputation: Lelandjt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    5,434
    Anyone good at that linkage program and wanna plot the wheel path?
    Keep the Country country.

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    8

    LaMere 650b and 29er

    Looks like Lamere will be using these frames in their builds. They are also doing a 29er version as well. Had an email from them and they are in the process of building their first 650b.
    https://www.abload.de/img/allmountainznsse.jpg
    https://www.abload.de/img/dsc01783ofs16.jpg

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation: scottay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    983
    Good find!

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    2

    Fm-336

    Looks like hong fu put the fm336 on their website today. It looks pretty good. There isn't any information yet, but some more pictures are posted. 2015 full carbon All mountain Frame

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    87
    I think it is really just going to come down to the quality of the pivots/bushings/bearings.

  22. #22
    bike rider
    Reputation: Lelandjt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    5,434
    I just took a better look at that frame and saw that it has counter-rotating links which clearly violate a Santa Cruz patent. Don't expect Lamere or any other "brand" to sell it here. I don't even think ebay sales are legal but SC would have to go after them.
    Keep the Country country.

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    72
    Wow - feeling a pang of regret about my LTK088 purchase, will be following this thread closely.

    Beware of rear wheel travel figures, i was assured from multiple sellers that the LTK088 was 118mm, only to find its more like 100mm. I'd recommend some wizardry with linkage before rushing in with an order. If it does come up lower then it might always be possible to use a 57mm stroke shock as i did with my LTK088. Offset bushes might be an option for people wanting it slacker too ....

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    18

  25. #25
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    7,168
    Anyone find the shock stroke on the ICAN frame...7.875 x ???

    Edit: nevermind, found it.
    Last edited by Pau11y; 09-03-2014 at 01:46 PM.

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    87
    For those of you who have travelled down the road of these carbon frames. How do you think the quality would compare to say, the new Intense T275 I looked at recently?

    Are we talking a major drop-off, or similar?

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    72
    Have any of you guys put down a deposit for the first run of these frames? ... very eager to shower whoever buys the first one with questions!

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation: andyfloyd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    486
    wondering if anyone has ordered one of these new AM frames???
    2014 27.5" SC Blur TRa:cool: - 2014 IP-106 Chiner 29er :nono: - 2005 Fuji Team SL 16.2lbs -:thumbsup:

  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    770
    Buyer beware. You are getting what you pay for (in some cases less) My experience with these Chinese knockoffs have been less than impressive. They come poorly finished meaning some of the tolerance for the press fit bearing were off by less than a fraction of a millimeter, but made installation of parts a nightmare. The carbon in some areas were even paper thin. Granted they might have improved since 3 years ago when I first bought mine I still wouldn't pay for anything that doesn't have a reputable company standing behind their product. These Cheapo carbon bike companies that sell these frames come and go faster than you can learn to spell their names.

    Disclaimer: I do not work in the bike industry nore do I have any affiliation with any bike shop or anyone who does business in the bike industry.

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    34
    I have this guy who comes into my body shop he does carbon repairs and such.. he said you can barely tell a difference between big box frames and Chinese frames. Just throw on a different sticker n bam!

  31. #31
    Formerly PaintPeelinPbody
    Reputation: PHeller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,629





    My worry, as always, is top-tube length for a given standover and bearing quality.

    This one looks the top-tube lengths are a bit longer than previous full suspension models, and bearings can be replaced.
    Work - Utility GIS Analyst
    Party - 2019 Guerrilla Gravity Revved Trail Pistol Sz 3

  32. #32
    Rocks belong
    Reputation: 06HokieMTB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    5,149
    Now that is interesting. It's a Mach 6, with a longer top tube and a counter rotating (VPP style) upper link
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  33. #33
    mtbr member
    Reputation: andyfloyd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    486
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonaid View Post
    Buyer beware. You are getting what you pay for (in some cases less) My experience with these Chinese knockoffs have been less than impressive. They come poorly finished meaning some of the tolerance for the press fit bearing were off by less than a fraction of a millimeter, but made installation of parts a nightmare. The carbon in some areas were even paper thin. Granted they might have improved since 3 years ago when I first bought mine I still wouldn't pay for anything that doesn't have a reputable company standing behind their product. These Cheapo carbon bike companies that sell these frames come and go faster than you can learn to spell their names.

    Disclaimer: I do not work in the bike industry nore do I have any affiliation with any bike shop or anyone who does business in the bike industry.

    I already have one carbon 29er from China and it looks as good and performs as well as anything Ive seen....
    2014 27.5" SC Blur TRa:cool: - 2014 IP-106 Chiner 29er :nono: - 2005 Fuji Team SL 16.2lbs -:thumbsup:

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation: andyfloyd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    486
    Quote Originally Posted by hokiebrett View Post
    Now that is interesting. It's a Mach 6, with a longer top tube and a counter rotating (VPP style) upper link
    Yea I was wanting someone to buy one and tell me how great it is, so i can buy one. lol. It does look like Pivot and SC got in bed and made a kid together.
    2014 27.5" SC Blur TRa:cool: - 2014 IP-106 Chiner 29er :nono: - 2005 Fuji Team SL 16.2lbs -:thumbsup:

  35. #35
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    7,168
    Quote Originally Posted by hokiebrett View Post
    Now that is interesting. It's a Mach 6, with a longer top tube and a counter rotating (VPP style) upper link
    I think I'm picking up one of these 27.5 to replace my Blur LTc. and if it rides well enough, maybe the 29er if the travel on that frame is also 150mm

  36. #36
    Rocks belong
    Reputation: 06HokieMTB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    5,149
    I tried to 'inquire' about on on Hongfu-bikes.com, but it wants to know order quantity.

    The geo on the 19" looks really good. I never liked how 'short' the top tube of the Mach 6 is.

    Does anyone thing that seat tube/upper VPP link junction looks a little weak? That 'truss' from the top tube looks pencil thin.
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  37. #37
    Rocks belong
    Reputation: 06HokieMTB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    5,149
    Has anyone verified that they'll ship to the US?

    I don't see how this isn't clear patent infringement for VPP?
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  38. #38
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    235
    These puppies look interesting. Plus they aren't shipping from China, and have a bit better geometry for what I'd want.

    Reveal7 - Closeout — 29er | 27.5 | FSR Full-Suspension

    Too bad I just picked up my Chinese carbon frame (the 120 rear 27.5) before I saw this.

  39. #39
    bike rider
    Reputation: Lelandjt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    5,434
    Quote Originally Posted by hokiebrett View Post
    Has anyone verified that they'll ship to the US?

    I don't see how this isn't clear patent infringement for VPP?
    I bet they ship for a little while till SC puts a stop to it. Get'em while you can.
    Keep the Country country.

  40. #40
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    87
    I'm a little less excited about this, now that the new Yeti SB6C is out...some of the new linkages look pretty cool.

  41. #41
    Formerly PaintPeelinPbody
    Reputation: PHeller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,629
    Except the SB6C will cost thousands mores than one these direct frames.
    Work - Utility GIS Analyst
    Party - 2019 Guerrilla Gravity Revved Trail Pistol Sz 3

  42. #42
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    87
    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post
    Except the SB6C will cost thousands mores than one these direct frames.
    I just checked pricing. Looks like one of the cutting edge Yeti frames is $3500!!

  43. #43
    Rocks belong
    Reputation: 06HokieMTB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    5,149
    Quote Originally Posted by j-t-g View Post
    These puppies look interesting. Plus they aren't shipping from China, and have a bit better geometry for what I'd want.

    Reveal7 - Closeout — 29er | 27.5 | FSR Full-Suspension
    If you're looking for a basic, linkage driven single pivot... Those are a good enough deal
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  44. #44
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1
    I'm in the market for one of these next year I think...

    But, the worrying bit at the moment, is that there doesn't appear to be any built photo's around. They MUST have built one up, surely?

  45. #45
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    7,168

    Re: China Carbon AM Duallies

    Quote Originally Posted by Conan257 View Post
    I'm in the market for one of these next year I think...

    But, the worrying bit at the moment, is that there doesn't appear to be any built photo's around. They MUST have built one up, surely?
    Melody Yu form iCan Bikes told me they're still testing and won't be ready till Dec or Jan.

  46. #46
    bike rider
    Reputation: Lelandjt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    5,434
    Here's the problem with a dual link generic Chinese bike: with a single pivot you can look at it and k ow what the wheel path is and how it's gonna feel. If there's a linkage driving the shock you're still rolling the dice that they got the shock rate curve right but at least half the equation is covered. With a dual link small changes can have huge impacts on wheel path and shock rate and it's really hard to tell by looking at a frame how it will work and feel. The whole point of dual links is to create wheel paths and shock rates that can't be done on a single pivot and result in a better ride. You're relying on this company to have actually done a good design rather than just slap some links on cuz that's what's selling well right now. Do you think they've actually put the kind of thought that DW, SC, or Giant do into their suspension layout?

    For me it wouldn't be worth the risk to buy a no name frame in this catagory. I love my Chinese rigid because there's not much asked of it. It's light, stiff, and has reasonable geometry (could be better handling but come on, no one's really shredding on a rigid bike). Even in the short travel XC FS category little variations in geometry and shock rate (wheel path looks good for that single pivot, linkage driven frame we've seen) can go mostly unnoticed because handling and feel aren't the top priorities for those bikes. In the AM/Enduro world it's all about how the bike feels. This is a toy that's meant to encourage great cornering, jumping, and confidence at speed on rough terrain. Plenty of otherwise good bikes in this category have been shunned due to sh!tty shock rates that make tuning a hassle. I'd at least like to see the frame properly analysed on Linkage before dropping the money on it.
    Keep the Country country.

  47. #47
    Formerly PaintPeelinPbody
    Reputation: PHeller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,629
    This bike is available on Linkage Design's publicly available design database, if you're interested. My demo versions are both done for, otherwise I'd post the results.
    Work - Utility GIS Analyst
    Party - 2019 Guerrilla Gravity Revved Trail Pistol Sz 3

  48. #48
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    7,168

    Re: China Carbon AM Duallies

    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post
    This bike is available on Linkage Design's publicly available design database, if you're interested. My demo versions are both done for, otherwise I'd post the results.
    It's for the 29er version of the design, but it might give ppl some idea...
    http://translate.googleusercontent.c...5o-HdzNvaFNMQw

  49. #49
    Rocks belong
    Reputation: 06HokieMTB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    5,149
    I'll be honest... I can't tell a good design from a bad by looking at a linkage curve
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  50. #50
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    2,895
    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    It's for the 29er version of the design, but it might give ppl some idea...
    Igor - album HM356 29 on Yandex
    Anyone else finds these charts odd? I.e. compare the "shock compression / wheel travel" curve and the "leverage ratio" curve.

    I am with Lelandjt on the "random design" of these frames. These bogus curves just make his case stronger.

  51. #51
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    180
    I've sent an email to the HongFu crew to get some more info. My bike got stolen last month.....so i'm looking to do a build. being 6'6" makes it a lil tougher, but I'd like to try a FS this time.

  52. #52
    Formerly PaintPeelinPbody
    Reputation: PHeller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,629
    Yea I'd be very hesitant to suggest one of these chinese bikes for someone over 6'3", simply because even the XL isn't very long by industry standards.
    Work - Utility GIS Analyst
    Party - 2019 Guerrilla Gravity Revved Trail Pistol Sz 3

  53. #53
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    71
    I think that it is a very promising proposition, only that I don't fancy the rather steep ha @ 68. Does anyone have an idea of how accurate these numbers generally are? I suppose that it would perhaps end up at a 66,5-67 with a 160 fork or at least a longer a-c. BB height can be adjusted with offset bushings but that might become a seat stay yoke/tire clearance issue. Anyone with knowledge to share here?

  54. #54
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    71
    Answering my own question here. Did some tinkering in Linkage. It seems to be minor differences between the Hongfu/dengfu/Lamere/Ican blueprints and images, mainly around the rear triangle. I also believe that the previous linkage model by Dunn is a bit off in the measurements so curves might not be trusted. It also seems like the recommended rear shock is a 200/50mm affair.
    Well, adjusting the rear with 2*3mm offset bushings would give you a 67,1 HA and a BB at ca -15mm. Additionally adding a 160mm fork (549mm a-c instead of 539mm) would result in a 66,6 HA and a -12mm BB. ETT shrinks ca 10mm and Reach ca 14mm by these changes.
    I think this would become a really good cheapo alternative to a Bronson or a Pivot Mach 6. Close to hitting that buy button.

  55. #55
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    30
    Has anybody recieved one yet ?
    i just placed an ordre at Hung-fu for one in size 20.5, but don't really know when i will recieve it.

    Btw, looks like there's yet another version of this frame
    2015 all mountain carbon bike frame_MOUNTAIN_Full Carbon bike

  56. #56
    mtbr member
    Reputation: andyfloyd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    486
    Im still waiting on a ride report before I pull the trigger. It looks like itll ride like a Pivot Mach 6 with a steeper head angle. I dont want to be a guinea pig on this one, someone build one up!
    2014 27.5" SC Blur TRa:cool: - 2014 IP-106 Chiner 29er :nono: - 2005 Fuji Team SL 16.2lbs -:thumbsup:

  57. #57
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    7,168

    Re: China Carbon AM Duallies

    Quote Originally Posted by C-kaae View Post
    Has anybody recieved one yet ?
    i just placed an ordre at Hung-fu for one in size 20.5, but don't really know when i will recieve it.

    Btw, looks like there's yet another version of this frame
    2015 all mountain carbon bike frame_MOUNTAIN_Full Carbon bike
    Do you know what the Feat frame calls for on shock stroke? Seem there is about a 10 mm variance in travel between all offerings.

  58. #58
    bike rider
    Reputation: Lelandjt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    5,434
    Quote Originally Posted by LasseB View Post
    Answering my own question here. Did some tinkering in Linkage. It seems to be minor differences between the Hongfu/dengfu/Lamere/Ican blueprints and images, mainly around the rear triangle. I also believe that the previous linkage model by Dunn is a bit off in the measurements so curves might not be trusted. It also seems like the recommended rear shock is a 200/50mm affair.
    Well, adjusting the rear with 2*3mm offset bushings would give you a 67,1 HA and a BB at ca -15mm. Additionally adding a 160mm fork (549mm a-c instead of 539mm) would result in a 66,6 HA and a -12mm BB. ETT shrinks ca 10mm and Reach ca 14mm by these changes.
    I think this would become a really good cheapo alternative to a Bronson or a Pivot Mach 6. Close to hitting that buy button.
    It's already got a really stack seat tube angle that'll be made even worse with offset bushings and a longer fork. Also you won't know if there's room at bottom out for offset bushings till you built it up and let the air out of the shock. I'm all for finding inexpensive alternatives but I just don't think this frame is gonna make most people in the market for a 2015 AM bike happy. The current geometry trends are so new it'll take another year or so for the copycats to get it right.
    Keep the Country country.

  59. #59
    Formerly PaintPeelinPbody
    Reputation: PHeller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,629
    Anyone see shock sizes anywhere? EDIT: 200 I2I, 50mm stroke.

    I'd probably size up on any Chinese frame. On a modern name brand bike I'd probably ride a large (610mm horizontal TT), but the one of the Chinese bikes I'd probably spring for the XL.
    Work - Utility GIS Analyst
    Party - 2019 Guerrilla Gravity Revved Trail Pistol Sz 3

  60. #60
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    71
    @Lelandjt
    I don't see how a 73 SA is too slack? A Bronson is at 73 with 67 HA, which is exactly the same as this would result in. And the Pivot mach 5.7 is actually at 71.5SA at 67.2HA.
    I'm not saying that this is a bullet proof buy that will guaranteed work as well as a (much) more expensive frame. I'm just saying that I find it plausible to adjust the angles to my liking through my theoretical testing.
    About rear wheel clearance i would say that from the Ican Bikes geometry charts and my mocked up Linkage model It looks like there will be enough clearance. Since the offset bushes will move the rear wheel less than 6mm closer to the seat tube and it looks like there is at leas 20mm to go, I'm willing to take the risk.
    I'm not giving any guarantees here and I'm definitely not a professional bike designer or engineer. I'm just sharing my leyman findings.

  61. #61
    Rocks belong
    Reputation: 06HokieMTB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    5,149
    I'd only run one offset bushing on this (or any high rotation, dual link frame). I'd put it on the side where the shock attaches to the front triangle.
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  62. #62
    bike rider
    Reputation: Lelandjt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    5,434
    Look at the seat tube. It's not 73. 73 is the angle of a line drawn from the BB to a random point that intersects the seatpost but when you raise and lower the seat it's moving way forward and back. I had a similar Scott Genius LT. Now I own an actually steep Nomad. Look into reviews of the Mach 6 vs Nomad and you'll hear how much better people like a steep seat tube. This bike will be okay but just okay. In 2015 that doesn't cut it. My advise is to wait till you can test ride this thing or wait for a better looking example which is sure to pop up over the next year. Or plunk down the money for a Bronson/Nomad/HD3/ect (maybe Mach 6 but everyone says short top tube and slack ST).
    Keep the Country country.

  63. #63
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    71
    Ok, again, not saying it will be the perfect bike or anything but the way to measure the Seat Angle from the bottom bracket to the (random) supposed height of the saddle is quite the norm right?
    Just measured the Bronson by the angle of the actual seat tube and it came out at about 70,5.
    China Carbon AM Duallies-bronsonstangle.jpg

  64. #64
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    30
    i have been asking around for their prices on this frame and delivery time.

    Dengfu 660 USD
    Hungfu 850 USD
    Ican - 830 USD

    Hungfu, told me that they own the factory that makes the frames, and the other compagnies simply buy from them.
    i dont really see how this can be true, with the different geometry ?

    besides that, some of them seem to be willing to take the ordre now, while Ican tells me that they have to finish up the frames. And the first ordres will be out in January.

  65. #65
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    741
    Once again I find myself trying to buy a frame that doesn't yet exist.

    What's with the price discrepancies? I've never dealt with any of these three companies so any recommendations would be appreciated.

    Time to start acquiring parts for the build ... thoughts on 35mm vs 40mm outer width rims for this frame?

  66. #66
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    7,168
    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    ... thoughts on 35mm vs 40mm outer width rims for this frame?
    Wouldn't an inner rim width be a better metric to gauge how a tire profile will be presented?

  67. #67
    Rocks belong
    Reputation: 06HokieMTB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    5,149
    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    Wouldn't an inner rim width be a better metric to gauge how a tire profile will be presented?
    yes
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  68. #68
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    741
    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    Wouldn't an inner rim width be a better metric to gauge how a tire profile will be presented?
    Yeah, I wish inner widths were the advertised spec because it is what really matters. But the outer width is what is shown everywhere so I gave in and just use the outer measurement in discussions. Subtract 5mm from that to get inner width.

    It doesn't seem that anyone has a frame yet and no new pictures have surfaced so I'm hesitant to order a 40mm rim and might just go with 35mm.

  69. #69
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    7,168
    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    It doesn't seem that anyone has a frame yet and no new pictures have surfaced so I'm hesitant to order a 40mm rim and might just go with 35mm.
    If I recall, Derby has 3mm walls (6mm for both) whereas the LB, Nextie, etc have 2.5mm walls (5mm for both).
    This is where I'm conflicted...is an extra 1/2 mm worth ~$140 in price between Nextie and Derby.

  70. #70
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    741
    Point being, would this frame fit a tire put on one of those rims?
    Or would it be limited to a smaller tire that would then up being the wrong profile?

    I might have to end up being the guinea pig unless someone has actually received one of these frames.

  71. #71
    Rocks belong
    Reputation: 06HokieMTB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    5,149
    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    If I recall, Derby has 3mm walls (6mm for both) whereas the LB, Nextie, etc have 2.5mm walls (5mm for both).
    This is where I'm conflicted...is an extra 1/2 mm worth ~$140 in price between Nextie and Derby.
    LB just released a 38mm outer, 31.6 inner rim in 650b and 29er. 3.2mm sidewalls should be tougher. The bead shelf looks really good as well.

    New mtb project for 38mm wide 650B and 29er rims Light-Bicycle
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  72. #72
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    7,168
    Quote Originally Posted by 06HokieMTB View Post
    LB just released a 38mm outer, 31.6 inner rim in 650b and 29er. 3.2mm sidewalls should be tougher. The bead shelf looks really good as well.

    New mtb project for 38mm wide 650B and 29er rims Light-Bicycle
    Hey thank for the heads up Hokie! I didn't realize they had this new model. Looks uncannily like a Derby, no? The 3.2 sounds fantastic!

  73. #73
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    30
    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    Once again I find myself trying to buy a frame that doesn't yet exist.

    What's with the price discrepancies? I've never dealt with any of these three companies so any recommendations would be appreciated.

    Time to start acquiring parts for the build ... thoughts on 35mm vs 40mm outer width rims for this frame?
    I once bought a frame from Ican, took 5 weeks i think, beautiful frame and finnish. Also quite like their decals too

    This time i ordered from Hongfu, and hopefully they will have the shortest delivery time, i also bought a pair of these wheels - 35mm outer, 30 inner.
    now i just hope that the Mountain king 2.4 will fit in the rear.
    29er 650B 27.5er Bead hookless 35mm Carbon Wheels Chlicher Beast decal-in Bicycle Wheel from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

  74. #74
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    30
    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    Once again I find myself trying to buy a frame that doesn't yet exist.

    What's with the price discrepancies? I've never dealt with any of these three companies so any recommendations would be appreciated.

    Time to start acquiring parts for the build ... thoughts on 35mm vs 40mm outer width rims for this frame?
    I once bought a frame from Ican, took 5 weeks i think, beautiful frame and finnish. Also quite like their decals too

    http://forums.mtbr.com/bike-frame-di...na-937817.html

    This time i ordered from Hongfu, and hopefully they will have the shortest delivery time, i also bought a pair of these wheels - 35mm outer, 30 inner.
    so now i hope that the Mountain king 2.4 will fit in the rear
    29er 650B 27.5er Bead hookless 35mm Carbon Wheels Chlicher Beast decal-in Bicycle Wheel from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

  75. #75
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    741
    I see you ordered the 20.5". How tall are you?

    Also, did you have to fill out the "inquire" form and then receive further instructions on how to order? The website isn't a typical web store, that's for sure.

  76. #76
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    30
    i'm 185cm

    you just have too fill out the inquire form, and then they will write you back on mail, where they will aske for your ordre. For payment i choose paypal, eigher that or bank transfer. Just remember there are charges on Paypal!

  77. #77
    Professional Slacker
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    3,271
    Quote Originally Posted by Lelandjt View Post
    Look at the seat tube. It's not 73. 73 is the angle of a line drawn from the BB to a random point that intersects the seatpost but when you raise and lower the seat it's moving way forward and back. I had a similar Scott Genius LT. Now I own an actually steep Nomad. Look into reviews of the Mach 6 vs Nomad and you'll hear how much better people like a steep seat tube. This bike will be okay but just okay. In 2015 that doesn't cut it. My advise is to wait till you can test ride this thing or wait for a better looking example which is sure to pop up over the next year. Or plunk down the money for a Bronson/Nomad/HD3/ect (maybe Mach 6 but everyone says short top tube and slack ST).
    All Pivots are slack, the M6 actually has a steeper ST angle than their 429 XC bike, and nobody complains about that not being able to climb.

    The "seat tube angle issue" really depends on how the rear suspension works. A DW-link bike doesn't squat while climbing like most designs, that's how they "get away with it." The question is what this frame does while climbing, if it squats, that's bad, if it extends, it's fine.

  78. #78
    Rocks belong
    Reputation: 06HokieMTB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    5,149
    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    Hey thank for the heads up Hokie! I didn't realize they had this new model. Looks uncannily like a Derby, no? The 3.2 sounds fantastic!
    Like a slightly narrower Derby, yes.
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  79. #79
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    741
    After studying the geometry charts and comparing it to other all mountain 650b bikes, I've decided to order a 19". I am 6 feet tall.

    Interestingly, the effective top tube of the 19" is actually a bit longer than the large size of the canfield balance, Santa cruz Bronson, and specialized Enduro.

    Cherry indicated that only the 17.5 frame is in stock. What this probably means is that they have finished the medium (17.5) mold but not the large (19) mold. Hopefully they are actively working on making that large mold.

  80. #80
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    30
    @dfiler
    who did you end up buying from ?

  81. #81
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    741
    Planning on ordering from hong fu if the timeframe is known and reasonable. With the difference in time, it isn't unexpected if each email exchange takes a day.

  82. #82
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    741
    No luck on ordering. Twice I explained that I wanted to buy a 19" FM-336. Both times the reply was that only the 17.5" was in stock. Perhaps the confusion is that I also asked when it would be available. No answer to that.

  83. #83
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Warnerja27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    33
    I'm trying to order a 19" also. Let's see what they say to MY inquiry.

    Do we know what size shock to use on these yet?

  84. #84
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    741
    Got an answer after asking a few times. Two months.

    In my experience that means three or four months.

    It's worth the wait though. I'll start acquiring all the other components and hopefully the frame is available before the enduro season starts up. Otherwise I'll have to buy something else, something probably much more expensive.
    Last edited by dfiler; 12-22-2014 at 11:24 AM.

  85. #85
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Warnerja27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    33
    I got a response last night....



    "thank you for your kind message in our website.
    this is nancy from hongfu bikes.

    the price:
    FM336:$850/set(19" BB92 UD matte)
    headset:$15
    ship cost:$95
    4% for paypal charge:$38.4
    the total price:$998.4
    my paypal account: [email protected]

    I look forward to your order.
    thanks!


    Best regards
    Nancy

    HongFu sports Equipment Co.,Ltd"


    Might wait to see some folks builds before I pull the trigger on this one

  86. #86
    A waste of time it is is
    Reputation: emu26's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,438
    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    Got an answer after asking a few times. Two months.

    In my experience that means three or four months.

    It's worth the wait though. I'll start acquiring all the other components and hopefully the frame is available before the enduro season starts up. Otherwise I'll have to buy something else, something probably much more expensive.
    HA, I was told 2 months when I started this thread and that was how many months ago?

  87. #87
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    741
    Well ****. Looks like I should hold off buying components for the build. If the FM336 won't be available, I'll probably end up buying a complete build from a major brand.

    There seems like two possibilities:
    * The manufacturer built just the medium size mold in order to market it to larger brands for distribution. This is what happened with the fatbike frame I bought. It eventually became both the Framed Alaskan and the KHS 4 Season 5000. After they signed contracts with those companies, it was no longer available directly from the factory. It could be that they don't want to invest in all the mold sizes unless a contract is signed guaranteeing a bulk purchase.
    * Or perhaps it really is two months out and they've only been delayed in getting the large size mold built.

    It surprises me that none of the Chinese factory direct sellers have jumped on the opportunity provided by the enduro craze. As of yet there are no cheap carbon mid-travel bikes on the market. There are some shorter travel single pivot options. But nothing like virtual-pivot design of the FM336 shown in this thread. With proper marketing, a company could easily do a good amount of business and build a recognizable brand name. Light-bicycle and now Nextie and a few other companies are examples of this. At least among riders I know, the perception of those companies went from small and questionable cheap manufacturers to legitimate companies. Someone step up!

  88. #88
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post





    My worry, as always, is top-tube length for a given standover and bearing quality.

    This one looks the top-tube lengths are a bit longer than previous full suspension models, and bearings can be replaced.
    Who makes the 29er HM356 frame? I'm assuming Hong Fu, but I can't find it anywhere on their webpage. Where did you find the geo picture for that frame?

  89. #89
    Formerly PaintPeelinPbody
    Reputation: PHeller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,629
    On this page on the bottom left: Mountain Frame,Products
    Work - Utility GIS Analyst
    Party - 2019 Guerrilla Gravity Revved Trail Pistol Sz 3

  90. #90
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    27
    has anyone seen the HM356 29er anywhere else?

  91. #91
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PuddleDuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    1,619
    Quote Originally Posted by LasseB View Post
    Ok, again, not saying it will be the perfect bike or anything but the way to measure the Seat Angle from the bottom bracket to the (random) supposed height of the saddle is quite the norm right?
    Just measured the Bronson by the angle of the actual seat tube and it came out at about 70,5.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	bronsonSTangle.jpg 
Views:	609 
Size:	227.9 KB 
ID:	945560
    Hi LasseB, what tool did you use to do this? Thanks.

  92. #92
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    71
    Quote Originally Posted by PuddleDuck View Post
    Hi LasseB, what tool did you use to do this? Thanks.
    I just used Photoshop using the ruler tool. But I suppose you could do the same thing in Gimp or some free photo editing software.

  93. #93
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PuddleDuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    1,619
    Quote Originally Posted by LasseB View Post
    I just used Photoshop using the ruler tool. But I suppose you could do the same thing in Gimp or some free photo editing software.
    Thanks

  94. #94
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    30

    linkage

    i just recieved a picture of the linkage, i was asking which size bushing i should go for.

    China Carbon AM Duallies-link.jpg

    if im reading correct the pin size is 8.1, and bushing width 22.3 - 22.4
    the closest i can find is 8 mm, and 22.2 or 22.88

    what am i reading wrong ?
    anybody

  95. #95
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    30
    China Carbon AM Duallies-link2.jpg

  96. #96
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    741
    I gave up waiting for a size large and bought a used carbon bronson. Someone else will need to be the guinea pig.

  97. #97
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    27
    Pretty sure you need 8x22.2. The 0.1 there is to allow assembly. Though I would expect tiny bit tighter tolerance on such part.

  98. #98
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    71
    Yeah, the 8.1x22.2 will be the one. When ordering custom bushings previously I've actually been recommended to go with 0.2mm lateral play for smooth assembly.
    Anyone have measurements for the other bushing?
    BTW just pulled the trigger on a large. 45-60 workdays for delivery and 30% deposit. Fingers crossed.

  99. #99
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    30
    any thoughts on the cut out at the chain stay and downtube?
    it looks as if they are planning to make some customized protection for it.

  100. #100
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    33
    Gday all.

    Well I've been out of the game for a while but am slowly wrapping my head around all the current tech again.

    I'm ordering one of these frames as soon as I can get my build list complete.

    Struggling on the fork and rear shock at the moment.

    First off (and I'm feeling like a n00b here), what size steerer does the fork need to have for this frame?

    Is it 1 1/8" or 1 1/2"?
    Or am I totally misunderstanding that spec from the schematic?

    Next up, what travel length is everyone thinking?

    I've looked at the Mach 5.7 and in the 27.5" frame size that generally gets matched to a 140mm fork.

    The Mach 6 in 27.5 seems to get matched with a 150mm or 160mm fork depending on which build kit you go with.

    From what I've read, a shorter fork will be better for climbing so I'm leaning towards a 150mm 2014 (read that the 2013's were crap) Fox 34 150mm Float.

    Am I on the right track or am I just an out of touch fool?

    Thx.

  101. #101
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    33
    Ok - think I've figured out the whole tapered steerer thing...

    From what I understand, the taper size stated by the manufacturer indicates the diameter at the bottom of the steerer tube and then tapers to a standard size of 1/8" at the top of the head tube (which the manufacturers don't specify).

    So a "1.5" taper" spec off the fox website means the bottom of the tube starts at 1.5" and tapers to 1.8" which matches the FM336.

    If someone could confirm or deny my understanding that would be great.

  102. #102
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    33
    Now for frame sizing...

    I'm 181cm (5'11") and have been riding a 19" hard tail for a very long time.

    I was scratching my head when measuring up my current frame's "O" measurement for a comparison but then noticed HF measure from the back of the seat tube to the middle of the down tube (I was doing middle to middle).

    Compared to my current rig, the HF-FM336 is 10mm longer on the top tube but that's nothing really.

    If it really bothered me I could just go a shorter headstem...

    My real question is - For an AM bike is 19" a reasonable size for someone of mu height?

  103. #103
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    741
    You have correctly described the tapered steer tube of a fork. Where it gets complicated is the headset. This frame appears to have a 44mm upper head tube diameter. Can't tell what the bottom is labeled as. There are a ton of "standards". When ordering they should be able to tell you exactly what kind of upper and lower headset is required.

  104. #104
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    7,168
    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    When ordering they should be able to tell you exactly what kind of upper and lower headset is required.
    So would a $10 digital caliper from Harbor Freight

  105. #105
    mtbr member
    Reputation: covy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    118
    Life is unfair, kill yourself or get over it

  106. #106
    mtbr member
    Reputation: covy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    118
    Quote Originally Posted by C-kaae View Post
    any thoughts on the cut out at the chain stay and downtube?
    it looks as if they are planning to make some customized protection for it.
    Same cut as on the Pivot Mach6
    Life is unfair, kill yourself or get over it

  107. #107
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    33
    That's awesome.
    But that site has thrown me a curve ball.
    They're specifying a 160mm fork and shock.
    Everything else I've seen specifies 150mm shock and fork.
    Sigh.

  108. #108
    mtbr member
    Reputation: covy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    118
    Life is unfair, kill yourself or get over it

  109. #109
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    33
    Ok - now I'm getting down to the nitty gritty.

    For forks, the "F" measurement on the diagrams (crown to axle) is 539.

    Looking at something like a Rock Shox Pike 150mm, the specified Axle to Crown length for this fork is 542mm.

    So, in my mind, 150mm (at least in this model of fork) is the way to go.

    You'd assume other brands would have similar A-C lengths for the same travel but who knows?!

  110. #110
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    33
    Just picked up another thing on the LaMere site.
    They're listing a 19.5" frame size.
    This is the first I've seen of this.
    All other diagrams list 19".

  111. #111
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    33
    Hey Pau11y - saw u mentioned you're interested in a 19" in a previous post.
    Out of curiosity, how tall are you?

  112. #112
    Formerly PaintPeelinPbody
    Reputation: PHeller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,629
    I'm curious about the width of the rear triangle at the yoke. I wish I could get ahold of some CAD drawings that showed a top-down view of the rear triangle.
    Work - Utility GIS Analyst
    Party - 2019 Guerrilla Gravity Revved Trail Pistol Sz 3

  113. #113
    Formerly PaintPeelinPbody
    Reputation: PHeller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,629
    Also, anyone know a contact for someone at Hong FU?
    Work - Utility GIS Analyst
    Party - 2019 Guerrilla Gravity Revved Trail Pistol Sz 3

  114. #114
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    33
    Very strange - when I compare the geometry of top tube, wheel base and head angle to
    Giant's reign and trance (27.5), this thing is like some weird hybrid love child.

    The following measurements are comparisons of the HF336 17.5" and Giant Medium 18":

    Head Angles:
    Reign: 65
    Trance: 67
    HF336: 68
    So steeper than a Trance even though this is a longer travel rig.
    The Reign is REALLY slack though.

    Top Tube:
    Reign: 61.97
    Trance: 59.94
    HF336: 60

    The HF336 is probably right on par with the Trance as HF apparently measure from back of seat tube to middle of head tube (whereas Giant I think are middle to middle).

    Wheel Base:
    Reign: 119.126
    Trance: 115.57
    HF336: 115.2

    Giant seem to have the right idea with a medium frame being 18" (listed at least for the Trance).

    This is all a bit of a conundrum as the Reign runs 160mm forks whereas the Trances runs 140mm.

    So you would imagine the HF336 lands somewhere in the middle.

    If we do the same thing again for the 19" HF336 against the medium 18" Reign and Trance we get the following:

    Head Angles:
    Reign: 65
    Trance: 67
    HF336: 68

    Top Tube:
    Reign: 61.97
    Trance: 59.94
    HF336: 62.00
    Again - the top tube measurement is weird on the HF so probably more like a Reign.

    Wheel Base:
    Reign: 119.126
    Trance: 115.57
    HF336: Unknown (Let's assume one inch longer so 117.74).

    This makes for a rough decision.

    On one hand, the geo of the 17.5" makes it seem more like the 140mm Trance but if you jump to the 19" the top tube length is now roughly the same as a 160mm travel bike from Giant.

    I fear the 19" would be too long in the top tube for that head angle given the travel.

    I'm getting the distinct impression if you want to run 160mm forks you'd go the 19" and if you want to run 150mm forks go the 17.5".

    Whatcha think?

  115. #115
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    33
    336 has just popped up on another site:

    2015 all mountain carbon bike frame-Carbon bike frame,Carbon bike parts,Carbon bicycle frame,Carbon road frame,Carbon MTB frame

    Am emailing back and forth with HongFu at present.
    Landed price to Aus is $1268.
    Bit more expensive than I was hoping.
    Thanks US dollar.
    Print some more money - I'm sure that will end well.

  116. #116
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    7,168

    China Carbon AM Duallies

    Quote Originally Posted by IckisBriz View Post
    Hey Pau11y - saw u mentioned you're interested in a 19" in a previous post.
    Out of curiosity, how tall are you?
    6ft even; 33 in inseam.

  117. #117

  118. #118
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    741
    I'd hold out for a better suspension design if possible. The bike pictured in that link is a pretty basic single pivot. Some people are fine with that but I prefer Horst link, dw type linkage, concentric axle, or virtual pivot designs.

  119. #119
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    33
    False alarm.
    Suspension linkage is different.

  120. #120
    Formerly PaintPeelinPbody
    Reputation: PHeller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,629
    It's a Four-Bar linkage driven shock. Not nearly as complex as the dual mini link, but it works.
    Work - Utility GIS Analyst
    Party - 2019 Guerrilla Gravity Revved Trail Pistol Sz 3

  121. #121
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    741
    Well, at 150mm it could be considered an AM dualy. But yeah, it isn't the frame discussed through most of this thread. Interestingly, the aluminum version from that company uses a horst link design. It looks similar but the pivot is on the chainstay rather than the seat stay.

  122. #122
    Formerly PaintPeelinPbody
    Reputation: PHeller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,629
    Switchback buys catalog bikes from big factories overseas. Often times such frames are designed by freelance designers as a way of honing their skills and trying new designs, and the frame manufacturers get something they can show to the big boys to say "hey, we can build this!" Then a big manufacturer will come along like Kona or Cove (check out the Satori and Hustler and compare to the Unveil7) and have little tweaks done to the designs.

    In the case of my bike, the Switchback Unveil7, it was designed by a guy who designed bikes for Fusion, Cube, Droessinger, Radon, and Votec, as well as Caribou Pro Bikes for some in-house designs. Designed by a German, built in Taiwan, sold by a guy from Oklahoma. Globalization.

    The carbon frames that Switchback was trying to sell were produced by another manufacturer and were just too expensive for his model of sale, and I personally don't think they look as good as the aluminum models produced by Caribou Bike.
    Work - Utility GIS Analyst
    Party - 2019 Guerrilla Gravity Revved Trail Pistol Sz 3

  123. #123
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    741
    Excellent info. Thanks!

  124. #124
    Formerly PaintPeelinPbody
    Reputation: PHeller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,629
    Basically, just like Lamere is probably rebranding these frames, the same thing will be done by other outfits in Europe and across the globe, just not here in the USA because of the DW Patent.
    Work - Utility GIS Analyst
    Party - 2019 Guerrilla Gravity Revved Trail Pistol Sz 3

  125. #125
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    33
    Man - bloody patent system.
    I believe everyone should be paid for their work.
    And you should be allowed to protect your own designs.
    But it should be affordable for both parties and not cost prohibitive.
    Wonder how much it costs to license a DW linkage?
    Probably a ******** ridiculous amount I suspect.
    If it's extortion, f#ck them. Copy away.

  126. #126
    Formerly PaintPeelinPbody
    Reputation: PHeller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,629
    Unfortunately the copies often times miss much of the attention to detail.

    Cheap bearings. Misinformation about actual shock and bushing sizes. Difficult warranty processes. Headset issues (other carbon frames ran a stupid integrated headset). And of course,

    Weird sizing.

    I think in the future the Asian manufacturers will start catching up with the current trends in suspension design and sizing geometry, and we'll see more domestic companies selling these frames re-branded for very good prices. In order for those companies to stay competitive they'll need to know the product and its specifications very well, as well being able to communicate quickly with the manufacturers in warranty cases. It's already happening in the road and hardtail markets, and its only a matter of time before the carbon 140-160mm full suspension bikes are more common with branding packs applied.

    It's made me really think about what my local Kona, Specialized, Pivot dealer is. They provide knowledge and warranty of the brand, perhaps free service, and charge accordingly (or exorbitantly). It seems like we've got two types of bike shop. One who knows their products, only their products, and prefers only to wrench on their stuff, and the other bike shop who isn't really a dealer, but just a service or consignment shop. With direct sales manufacturers like YT Industries, you'll start to see the normal consignment shop be a more popular spot as folks like us, who aren't afraid to ride an unbranded chinese frame want to go someplace for help without being judged for our buying decision.
    Work - Utility GIS Analyst
    Party - 2019 Guerrilla Gravity Revved Trail Pistol Sz 3

  127. #127
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    741
    All the factory direct carbon products I've bought from chinese companies have been equal to or better than western name brand products. The same goes for customer service. In fact, the Chinese companies are willing to engage in lengthy and detailed email exchanges.

    In my opinion, the reputation for shoddy quality and poor customer service is undeserved. They are the world experts in carbon manufactoring and it shows.

    For example, when I first bought light bicyle rims many years ago, the local riding scene was not very accepting. Some people were downright bigoted in their comments. Over time they have grown comfortable and have learned that Chinese rims are excellent quality. After seeing me abuse the rims on multiple bikes for years, many people started asking questions and soon showed up with Chinese carbon rims on their own bikes.

    The same thing is happening with frames. I bought a frame that eventually was licensed by KHS and Framed. Again, at first people were skeptical. Then they saw the frame in person and again started asking questions, realizing it was excellent quality.

    Full suspension frames are next in line. In my opinion they are already of equal quality to most more recognized, branded frames. Indeed some brands simply buy these frames and slap a logo on. In these instances, the Chinese frames aren't copies, but rather the originals.

    If this frame had been available for purchase In a large size, I would have bought it without hesitation. Because it wasn't, I bought a used Bronson.

  128. #128
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    33
    Hmm - now that I'm actually getting quite serious and almost at "pull the trigger" time, I'm backing off the 336.

    I got off my ass and went and rode 2 name-brand 140mm and 160mm travel bikes today with unbelievably close geometry to the HongFu FM336.

    Now that I've ridden a slack angled 6" travel bike and a more XC but still more relaxed angle 140mm bike, I agree with an earlier post that the head angle on the 336 is too steep.

    I'm not actually all that convinced at this point that it's really that much cheaper to build it up from scratch.

    There's obviously still disgusting margin in mountain bike parts which is very disappointing.

    The only components that I've seen in my research that are really at a good price are frames and drive train.

    Forks, shocks, rims (which I build myself and yes understand are a pita) and seat posts / seats / headstems are still a ******** ripoff.

    Anyway, I found that for where I ride, 6" is actually too much travel and 5.5" is really where it's at for me.

    Of bloody course, the only type of dual-sus frame actually available out of China atm is 120mm, with the fm336 being vapourware.

    WILL SHOW DECEMBER MY ASS.

  129. #129
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    27
    the HA is pretty steep. I am counting works -2* angle headset into the price

  130. #130
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    72
    Quote Originally Posted by cernymuz View Post
    the HA is pretty steep. I am counting works -2* angle headset into the price
    I dont think that will work because it uses drop in bearings for the headset. the works headset only works for frames that use cups no?

  131. #131
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by Weedling View Post
    I dont think that will work because it uses drop in bearings for the headset. the works headset only works for frames that use cups no?
    Thanks for the heads up. I did not look into this yet. It would be a red light for me.

  132. #132
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    741
    The inner diameter of the head tube is listed as 44mm upper and 56mm lower. It is hard to confirm anything more from the drawings. I'm not sure but something like a cane creek 44/56 angleset could fit. If so, that makes the head angle adjustable.

  133. #133
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    27
    Last edited by cernymuz; 02-02-2015 at 03:44 PM.

  134. #134
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    33
    Hey - just thought I'd chime in after a little while

    As I said, I've been out of the mountain bike tech game for a while.
    I made a very interesting discovery in my research and test riding of a variety of Norco and Giant double-sussers.

    If like me you haven't bought a new bike in 8 years (Giant Talon was a beast), you'll be amazed to find out there really is very little difference in weight between carbon composite and aluminium frames.

    I picked up two models of the same bike at a Giant dealership and had to ask the sales guy which one was carbon.

    In my research and speaking to bike mechanics as well, I was asked "how long do you hang on to your bikes for" to which I answered 8 years.

    I was told in no uncertain terms to NOT buy a carbon frame if I intend on keeping the bike that long, and was advised carbon is for people who race or sell it off and buy a new bike every one to two years.

    Having ridden a a bunch of trail and all-mountain bikes I can say that yes the head angle on this frame is steep for the travel it has specified.

    I actually disagree with the advised fork length / travel specified in the diagrams and advice I was given from HongFu for the style of frame they are advertising it as.

    If you were to bang a 6" fork on this bike it would probably start to feel more like an AM machine but at the same time could also feel very weird.

    I don't know - until you guys see one of these in the flesh and have some real world feedback I honestly don't think it's worth the risk given the price.

    I mean, $1100 AU is a good deal but isn't the bargain of the century.

    For that much you're getting into serious money and I'd expect at least a decent product site with WAY more information and at least an accurate shipping date.

    Again, for that price they should be putting out some samples for dealerships to demo if they really are serious.

    In other industries where Chinese / Korean drop-ship is the norm I have to say the purchasing is way more official and support significantly more available (online chat, prompt clear language email etc.).

    Honestly hope these frames turn out to be good but for me when I weighed up the risk vs. cost saving I ended up going with one of the big names and couldn't be happier.

  135. #135
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    741
    Aluminum frames are fine. But there is no reason you can't keep a carbon frame for 8 years. People who buy bikes all the time are also the people who are ok with spending money on expensive carbon bikes. That doesn't mean carbon requires frequent replacement.

  136. #136
    mtbr member
    Reputation: andyfloyd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    486
    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    I gave up waiting for a size large and bought a used carbon bronson. Someone else will need to be the guinea pig.
    I went with a Blur TR and converted it to 650b. I didnt want to get this frame with so many unknowns. Sad
    2014 27.5" SC Blur TRa:cool: - 2014 IP-106 Chiner 29er :nono: - 2005 Fuji Team SL 16.2lbs -:thumbsup:

  137. #137
    mtbr member
    Reputation: chrisx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    704
    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post





    My worry, as always, is top-tube length for a given standover and bearing quality.

    This one looks the top-tube lengths are a bit longer than previous full suspension models, and bearings can be replaced.
    I dont see the 29er on the hung fu web site, is it there?

  138. #138
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    30
    Quote Originally Posted by IckisBriz View Post
    Hey - just thought I'd chime in after a little while

    As I said, I've been out of the mountain bike tech game for a while.
    I made a very interesting discovery in my research and test riding of a variety of Norco and Giant double-sussers.





    If like me you haven't bought a new bike in 8 years (Giant Talon was a beast), you'll be amazed to find out there really is very little difference in weight between carbon composite and aluminium frames.

    I picked up two models of the same bike at a Giant dealership and had to ask the sales guy which one was carbon.

    In my research and speaking to bike mechanics as well, I was asked "how long do you hang on to your bikes for" to which I answered 8 years.

    I was told in no uncertain terms to NOT buy a carbon frame if I intend on keeping the bike that long, and was advised carbon is for people who race or sell it off and buy a new bike every one to two years.

    Having ridden a a bunch of trail and all-mountain bikes I can say that yes the head angle on this frame is steep for the travel it has specified.

    I actually disagree with the advised fork length / travel specified in the diagrams and advice I was given from HongFu for the style of frame they are advertising it as.

    If you were to bang a 6" fork on this bike it would probably start to feel more like an AM machine but at the same time could also feel very weird.

    I don't know - until you guys see one of these in the flesh and have some real world feedback I honestly don't think it's worth the risk given the price.

    I mean, $1100 AU is a good deal but isn't the bargain of the century.

    For that much you're getting into serious money and I'd expect at least a decent product site with WAY more information and at least an accurate shipping date.

    Again, for that price they should be putting out some samples for dealerships to demo if they really are serious.

    In other industries where Chinese / Korean drop-ship is the norm I have to say the purchasing is way more official and support significantly more available (online chat, prompt clear language email etc.).

    Honestly hope these frames turn out to be good but for me when I weighed up the risk vs. cost saving I ended up going with one of the big names and couldn't be happier.
    You are right when it comes to the price of this frame, i like the idea of about buying a cheap chinese frame. But when they raise the price to this level, You should definitly look for an alternative, in my opinion it wont lead to anything good if we keep supporting the that part of the world - no bad feelings.

    Now for what really matters
    Nancy from Hung Fu wrote me an update, and she told me that they are in process of gluing the frames, and next up will be painting.
    So at the end of this month they should be ready..

  139. #139
    mtbr member
    Reputation: intellikat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    12
    Reposting from other related threads--

    I wanted to reach out an make contact with any riders who might find information and reviews on Chinese (or broadly Asian) manufactured components/frames useful.

    I'm working in Guangzhou, China (close to Shenzhen) on contract for a few years and in my early days here have been riding local trails, meeting local riders, and finding the LBSes over the past 6 months. A good Chinese friend of mine is a sponsored racer for a Chinese company (Quick) and also works in marketing for WTB.

    He and I have this vision to get info out to our western brothers and sisters using our connections ("guanxi") in the industry here as well as our proximity to a number of the manufacturers. It would be website dedicated to unbiased short- and longterm reviews of products as well as info and images on manufacturers/companies. I know that a number of others have attempted this in abortive blog fashion or in forums, but I don't know of any centralized site/hub online with easy content searching and dialogue for these kind of reviews. We have some really great access to information here and would like to utilize it.

    Is a website dedicated to reviews and info on Asian manufactured products (carbon frames, rims, some other components) something anyone would be interested in using if we set it up? We'd be happy to compile requests of manufacturers and products to chase up and provide tech info and reviews.

    I've been interested in testing some of the 650bs and FS frames I've seen pop up here...

  140. #140
    mtbr member
    Reputation: andyfloyd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    486
    Quote Originally Posted by intellikat View Post
    Reposting from other related threads--

    I wanted to reach out an make contact with any riders who might find information and reviews on Chinese (or broadly Asian) manufactured components/frames useful.

    I'm working in Guangzhou, China (close to Shenzhen) on contract for a few years and in my early days here have been riding local trails, meeting local riders, and finding the LBSes over the past 6 months. A good Chinese friend of mine is a sponsored racer for a Chinese company (Quick) and also works in marketing for WTB.

    He and I have this vision to get info out to our western brothers and sisters using our connections ("guanxi") in the industry here as well as our proximity to a number of the manufacturers. It would be website dedicated to unbiased short- and longterm reviews of products as well as info and images on manufacturers/companies. I know that a number of others have attempted this in abortive blog fashion or in forums, but I don't know of any centralized site/hub online with easy content searching and dialogue for these kind of reviews. We have some really great access to information here and would like to utilize it.

    Is a website dedicated to reviews and info on Asian manufactured products (carbon frames, rims, some other components) something anyone would be interested in using if we set it up? We'd be happy to compile requests of manufacturers and products to chase up and provide tech info and reviews.

    I've been interested in testing some of the 650bs and FS frames I've seen pop up here...
    That would be pretty cool actually. I have a Chiner 29er and that bike rips!
    2014 27.5" SC Blur TRa:cool: - 2014 IP-106 Chiner 29er :nono: - 2005 Fuji Team SL 16.2lbs -:thumbsup:

  141. #141
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    58
    Quote Originally Posted by andyfloyd View Post
    That would be pretty cool actually. I have a Chiner 29er and that bike rips!
    absolutely

  142. #142
    mtbr member
    Reputation: intellikat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    12
    Excellent. Will keep you updated.

  143. #143
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    18
    Any updates on the eta for the fm336? Pretty big delay over the initial November date of availability

  144. #144
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    71
    Just got an update from Nancy at Hong Fu about the geometry specifications of the 15" and 19".
    China Carbon AM Duallies-geometry.jpg
    Looks like it will be a long and low beast even if it does have an even steeper HA in the 19". Maybe need a Angle set after all if the offset bushings doesn't do it.

  145. #145
    Rocks belong
    Reputation: 06HokieMTB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    5,149
    Quote Originally Posted by LasseB View Post
    Maybe need a Angle set after all if the offset bushings doesn't do it.
    To me, the drawings look like the headtube is designed for a IS/Campy style headset = no Works Components or AngleSet.

    Look at the lower 'cup' in the tube. You can see the 45* chamfer that an ACB rests against.
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  146. #146
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    71
    Let me magnify that for you.

    China Carbon AM Duallies-headset.jpg

    previous to the left, updated to the right. To me it doesn't make sense that it would be an campy (internal) headset since the OD of IS42 is 42mm (doh) and lower is IS47. The only ones using 44 vs 56 are the ZS integrated ones.
    If ZS an angleset would be possible depending on the depth of the cups.
    Or am I thinking wrong here?
    This whole headset thing is a jungle nowadays...

  147. #147
    Rocks belong
    Reputation: 06HokieMTB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    5,149
    yeah, i dunno. you got me.

    Hopefully those pics show the headset cup already pressed in and not a molded Integrated/Campy headset.
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  148. #148
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    71
    Also, got confirmation from HF that shock length was 200*50 and that both bushings are 22.2x8mm

  149. #149
    Rocks belong
    Reputation: 06HokieMTB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    5,149
    Will these ever be available?
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  150. #150
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    22
    After negotiating back and forth with a handful of different companies, I've ordered a couple FM288 (AKA FM336/AM336) frames from DengFu (one for a friend). In the end, Wendy at DengFu was the best priced with stock coming (15-30 days...not in stock currently). I was talking to XMI, Ican, Feat, Miracle, DengFu and HongFu in case anyone was wondering. Price including shipping, paypal fee, etc was under $800 each which wasn't too terrible. Peter (on the forums) said he will have some of these available in about 55 days with his new company, Xiamen Carbon Speed Co.,Ltd (www.xmcarbonspeed.com), which he is spinning up at the moment. I would have loved to support him if it had fit the timeline, but he was super helpful in answering questions about the FM156 vs the FM288. This is my first bike build, so I may be a little over my head, but I'm excited to get this project rolling. If anyone has any questions about specifics of the buying/decision process, I'm happy to answer them. It looks like most of you are much more technical than I am and can offer more in that regard, but feel free to hit me up.

  151. #151
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    741
    Would be excellent if that 15 to 30 days is real. It wouldn't be surprising if that simply means they'll try to get it. I hope it works out!

  152. #152
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    22
    Yeah. My wife imports things from China and I have definitely seen the "order now for future stock" thing fall through, but more often than not it's fairly accurate. Linda at Ican also alluded to a similar time line which leads me to believe the supplier has a run in the works that is due at the end of April. I am definitely prepared for the worst case though. I'd probably just change my order to the FM156 if I haven't heard anything by the end of the month. I'll definitely update (and solicit advice) over the next month or two.

  153. #153
    A waste of time it is is
    Reputation: emu26's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,438
    15 -30 days, well I was told 90 when this thread first started so you should have it by the end of the year.

  154. #154
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    22
    Yeah. I've got high hopes but realistic expectations.

  155. #155
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    138
    Anyone got the fm336 and build it ?

  156. #156
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    35
    Hey all,
    Looking at buying the DSK088 dual sus frame from Dashine. It has a 66.5 HA and 140mm travel front and back. Sorta looks like a Stumpy. Only found one post about it and it was super negative. Has anyone else encountered this frame?

    088 UD 20" Glossy 27 5ER Full Suspension Carbon Fiber Mountain Bike Frameset | eBay




    Thanks

  157. #157
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    71
    I was promised by Hong Fu that my 336 size L would be finished on May 18. Let's hope that they deliver on this. Will definitely keep you updated.

  158. #158
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    18
    Please do!!! Whats the build kit going to be?

  159. #159
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    71
    Sooo, may 18th has passed. No news on the status of the frame at all except the not so comforting "other customer also waiting the frame". Beginning to feel a bit like vaporware. Let's hope that we find some proof soon that these frames does exist for real...

  160. #160
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    115
    Frames do exist i have 2 on hand one being built as i type this and more in transit. if you have any questions feel free to contact me or if your interested in getting one of these frames let me know.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails China Carbon AM Duallies-dsc_6647.jpg  

    China Carbon AM Duallies-dsc_6646.jpg  


  161. #161
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    741
    And the thread goes insane in 3... 2... 1...

    (Nice dropper routing)

  162. #162
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    115
    Quote Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
    And the thread goes insane in 3... 2... 1...

    (Nice dropper routing)
    Lol it has routing for a stealth post and also external internal cable routing, didnt rout the cable yet it will be done by the end of the day.

  163. #163
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    7,168
    Quote Originally Posted by Finalgear View Post
    Frames do exist i have 2 on hand one being built as i type this and more in transit. if you have any questions feel free to contact me or if your interested in getting one of these frames let me know.
    Any chance you can take some more detailed photos...linkages, head tube, BB, etc...
    TIA.

  164. #164
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    115
    Head tube is tapered zs44 top and zs56 bottom, bottom bracket is a bb92 with iscg05 tabs.

  165. #165
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    7,168
    Quote Originally Posted by Finalgear View Post
    Head tube is tapered zs44 top and zs56 bottom, bottom bracket is a bb92 with iscg05 tabs.
    Right, got that. The reason I ask is by examining those areas, you might be able to tell the fit/finish...especially the linkages...how it mates to the carbon and how the machining is. What's your call on that? You had a chance to look in the inside of the head tube and BB. Did you face the head tube or BB, or did it come faced and ready to go. Did you get to cycle the rear triangle before bolting in the shock. Smooth? Any issues fitting the shock into its mounting...too snug or too loose w/ the spec'd hardware?

    Edit: just noticed you have nice fat rims. What tire and size are you running and how is the rear clearance to the stays?

  166. #166
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    115
    Head tube and bottom bracket were both ready to go out the box no facing needed, linkages fit well and very smooth, believe me i played with the frame before adding the parts, i was trying to find something wrong but with no luck, im running an intense cycles branded tire that was made by Vee rubber in a 2.4 size front and rear and that's the max size the rear will take.

  167. #167
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    71
    Thanks Finalgear for sharing that. Makes me a bit more hopeful. Unfortunately I got an update from HF that stated the "frame have a little problem now. We need to solve it and make sure the quality is no problem."
    I believe that this is a good thing, that they actually care about the quality and durability of their product. Fingers still crossed about getting the new bike built before summer.

  168. #168
    Rocks belong
    Reputation: 06HokieMTB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    5,149
    Whats the most recent (actual?) cost coming in on these? (shipped to the US + PayPal fees)

    My HD3 frame just got delayed (again) and I have everything waiting a 650b 6" plastic bike build. I even have a new 31.6 Lev Ti waiting for install.

    Love that this bike has a 447mm+ reach in a size Large!

    I may just say screw it and get one of these 336's for 1/3-1/2 the cost of the HD3.

    Knowing this bike has a standard ZS44/ZS56 headset means I could get a -2* or -1.5* works components headset and get the HTA down to a proper 66.5-67*.

    Only down side so far is the BB92 bottom bracket. HD3 has good 'ole threaded BSA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Finalgear View Post
    im running an intense cycles branded tire that was made by Vee rubber in a 2.4 size front and rear and that's the max size the rear will take.
    Even better news! I have the same Intense (Vee) TT 2.4 tire mounted on a Ryde Trace Enduro (29mm internal) rim and it fits just fine in the back of the HD3 I tested it on.
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  169. #169
    Rocks belong
    Reputation: 06HokieMTB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    5,149
    Quote Originally Posted by LasseB View Post
    BTW just pulled the trigger on a large. 45-60 workdays for delivery and 30% deposit. Fingers crossed.
    Did yours end up costing the same as what this guy posted up in December?

    Quote Originally Posted by Warnerja27 View Post
    "thank you for your kind message in our website.
    this is nancy from hongfu bikes.

    the price:
    FM336:$850/set(19" BB92 UD matte)
    headset:$15
    ship cost:$95
    4% for paypal charge:$38.4
    the total price:$998.4
    my paypal account: [email protected]
    EDIT: I just sent emails to DengFu and Hong Fu, hopefully they'll respond tonight.
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  170. #170
    A waste of time it is is
    Reputation: emu26's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,438
    Nice to finally see one in the flesh, so to speak.
    Finalgear may I ask where you ordered yours from, how long delivery took from placing order to in your hands and what was the landed cost?
    TIA.

  171. #171
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    115
    We have a special relationship with Miricle and was able to get them in a month from the day it was ordered to delivery and that's with paint (paint alone was a week) final cost was around 830 minus the paint cost.

  172. #172
    A waste of time it is is
    Reputation: emu26's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,438
    Thanks for the info.

    Let us know what it rides like when you get the chance please.

  173. #173
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    7,168
    Quote Originally Posted by Finalgear View Post
    Head tube and bottom bracket were both ready to go out the box no facing needed, linkages fit well and very smooth, believe me i played with the frame before adding the parts, i was trying to find something wrong but with no luck, im running an intense cycles branded tire that was made by Vee rubber in a 2.4 size front and rear and that's the max size the rear will take.
    Thanks man! Hope you get her up and it rips
    Would you please do up a ride review when you've had some miles on her?

  174. #174
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    115
    will be testing them at Highland bike park this weekend if any one is going to be there you are welcome to take a spin on it.

  175. #175
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    7,168
    Quote Originally Posted by Finalgear View Post
    will be testing them at Highland bike park this weekend if any one is going to be there you are welcome to take a spin on it.
    That's so awesome! It might be nice to see some quotes from those who've also taken a turn on it. SO congrats man!

  176. #176
    bike rider
    Reputation: Lelandjt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    5,434
    I'm just curious since that's a nearly price-is-no-object build on a budget frame: Were you initially gonna get a Mach6/HD3/Nomad3, then decided to give this frame a try first?

    It's just that I'm used to seeing price concious builds (like mine) on these generic frames and top of the line builds on pricy frames (like my Nomad).
    Keep the Country country.

  177. #177
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    115
    well the thing is this is a new company that was just started (Spectrum cycle werks) and i wanted to offer a frame that is just as good as the big 3 and other brands out there for almost half the cost, i mean yea i could have any frame i wanted to be honest with you but i figured let me see what i can do with this, dont get me wrong i love the t275 and i work very close with Intense and could get a frame at a good price but i would like to give the under dogs a shot also, when i first got the frame i was impressed by how well built the frame was and how thick the head tube was on this frame.

  178. #178
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    115
    O one more this for you guys i know the specks say 200x50.8 for the shock but you can run a 200x57 shock just fine with no issues at all.

  179. #179
    Rocks belong
    Reputation: 06HokieMTB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    5,149
    So 150 or 168 mm travel?! Wow.

    Just heard back from:

    DengFu: $805 delivered, w/ PayPal fees (out of stock, "wait a few days")
    HongFu: $987.52 delivered, w/ PayPal fees (no mention of stock)
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  180. #180
    Rocks belong
    Reputation: 06HokieMTB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    5,149
    Quote Originally Posted by Lelandjt View Post
    I'm just curious since that's a nearly price-is-no-object build on a budget frame: Were you initially gonna get a Mach6/HD3/Nomad3, then decided to give this frame a try first?

    It's just that I'm used to seeing price concious builds (like mine) on these generic frames and top of the line builds on pricy frames (like my Nomad).
    That's a good point. My HD3 build kit is full X01, Pike, KS Lev Ti, SIXC bars... But alloy wheels. I could build an 336/288 for about $1500 less than my HD3 build. Hell, carbon rims would've only added an additional $250 to the build (but I simply don't trust myself with a carbon rear wheel).

    That being said, resale on a used Chinese generic carbon frame will be pretty minimal. You'd be dependent on the parts build to support the sale. I know many here probably don't think about resale, but I seem to have the habit of having bike envy/indecisiveness and tend to turn over bikes fairly quick. (Seems sometimes I enjoy the hunt and the chase of a good build, especially with the rate that new stuff is being introduced to the market!?)
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  181. #181
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    115
    well if they delay you again i can get a frame for you.

  182. #182
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    115
    Quote Originally Posted by 06HokieMTB View Post
    That's a good point. My HD3 build kit is full X01, Pike, KS Lev Ti, SIXC bars... But alloy wheels. I could build an 336/288 for about $1500 less than my HD3 build. Hell, carbon rims would've only added an additional $250 to the build (but I simply don't trust myself with a carbon rear wheel).

    That being said, resale on a used Chinese generic carbon frame will be pretty minimal. You'd be dependent on the parts build to support the sale. I know many here probably don't think about resale, but I seem to have the habit of having bike envy/indecisiveness and tend to turn over bikes fairly quick. (Seems sometimes I enjoy the hunt and the chase of a good build, especially with the rate that new stuff is being introduced to the market!?)
    i just spec'd this build out for myself and being in the bicycle industry i saved alot of money on the parts.

  183. #183
    bike rider
    Reputation: Lelandjt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    5,434
    Finalgear: Are you importing these frames now under the Spectrum label? I figured ebay sales of unlabeled frames would slip under the radar but officially importing would catch Santacruz's eye.
    Keep the Country country.

  184. #184
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    115
    Yes we are, and you would this catch the eye of santacruz it's nowhere near a copy of their Vpp suspension setup, if anything is more like a hybrid of a dw link And a vpp, the A link is the top link and that's just anyother linkage that looks like a vpp link and the B link bottom link looks like the linkage from the HD3,with that being said without the top link copying the dw link suspension its won't be a dw link And without the bottom link copying the vpp it won't be a vpp suspension setup.

  185. #185
    Rocks belong
    Reputation: 06HokieMTB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    5,149
    Quote Originally Posted by Finalgear View Post
    well if they delay you again i can get a frame for you.
    2 months
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  186. #186
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    115
    they delayed the frame 2 months?

  187. #187
    Rocks belong
    Reputation: 06HokieMTB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    5,149
    Quote Originally Posted by Finalgear View Post
    they delayed the frame 2 months?
    2 months delivery on a 336/288.

    I've been waiting 2 months for my HD3 and it looks like i'll be waiting close to another month
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  188. #188
    Rocks belong
    Reputation: 06HokieMTB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    5,149
    Quote Originally Posted by 06HokieMTB View Post
    I could build an 336/288 for about $1500 less than my HD3 build.
    Ok, doing some more figuring... Including CC-Inline shock, hardware, works -1.5* headset, bottom bracket, etc. What I'm getting my HD3 for is about $900 more than a 336/288 build.

    For that $900 you get a shorter chainstay (and shorter reach), a BSA BB, easily sourced replacement parts (rear derailleur hangers, other frame parts, etc.), a proven, reviewed and highly engineered DW Gen5 suspension, full warranty (with US based customer service and arguably the best CS in the business) and much better resale.

    I guess the problem here is figuring out what the rear suspension is going to behave like. Is it going to be more VPP like or DW like?

    If VPP, will it be like a SC VPP or an Intense VPP? The Tracer T275c is not known as a super snappy, efficient climber as Intense's VPP has longer lower links and a more pronounced rearward wheel path (and associated pedal kick back). Will it wallow in the mid stroke like Gen1 VPP? Quite a few unknowns.

    Also, it's a brand new frame. No clue on durability, impact strength, weight of frame, etc.

    Hmm... $900 more is still $900.
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  189. #189
    mtbr member
    Reputation: andyfloyd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    486
    I wouldnt buy this frame until there are ride reports because that rear suspension action could suck. I mean this bike could be great, or it could be absolutely terrible. I have a hardtail 29er from China and its fine, but when you start to talk about suspension design that is a little more difficult.
    2014 27.5" SC Blur TRa:cool: - 2014 IP-106 Chiner 29er :nono: - 2005 Fuji Team SL 16.2lbs -:thumbsup:

  190. #190
    Rocks belong
    Reputation: 06HokieMTB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    5,149
    Quote Originally Posted by andyfloyd View Post
    I wouldnt buy this frame until there are ride reports because that rear suspension action could suck. I mean this bike could be great, or it could be absolutely terrible. I have a hardtail 29er from China and its fine, but when you start to talk about suspension design that is a little more difficult.
    Yeah. Dual link rear ends really need to be dialed and are sensitive to tweaks.

    And I forgot that if I cancel my HD3 frame order, then I give up $250 in credits towards my build... bringing the cost difference down to $650.

    I think I'll stick with the HD3
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  191. #191
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    115
    Quote Originally Posted by andyfloyd View Post
    I wouldnt buy this frame until there are ride reports because that rear suspension action could suck. I mean this bike could be great, or it could be absolutely terrible. I have a hardtail 29er from China and its fine, but when you start to talk about suspension design that is a little more difficult.
    there will be video and pictures after this weekend.

  192. #192
    bike rider
    Reputation: Lelandjt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    5,434
    I don't remember, has anyone put this bike in Linkage and seen its axle path and shock rate?
    When using a 57mm stroke shock to let the wheel go deeper in the travel you say there's no interference (between the links & frame or tire & frame). So, what limits tire size? Contact between the corner of the tire and swingarm, top of tire and swingarm, or top of tire and seat tube? For instance, my last gen Bullit had massive tire clearence at the swingarm but some 2.4"s would rub the seat tube at bottom-out.
    Keep the Country country.

  193. #193
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    115
    Contact between the corner of the tire and lower swingarm.

  194. #194
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    21
    Finalgear: just to be sure does the headset have cups or not cause I'm about to buy a cane creek ZS angleset and I want to be sure that it is not a integrated but a semi-integrated headset before it's to late. One more thing, do you know what's the max size of the seatpost and does it really have a rout for a stealth post?
    Thanks.

  195. #195
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    115
    headset is not integrated 31.6 is the seatpost size needed not sure on the length because im using a dropper post and yes it has internal dropper post routing aka stealth.

  196. #196
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    115
    o and for the stealth dropper your remote will be on the left side of the bars because the cable exit is on the right side of the frame.

  197. #197
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    18
    Finalgear: anymore pics of your build?
    Quote Originally Posted by Finalgear View Post
    o and for the stealth dropper your remote will be on the left side of the bars because the cable exit is on the right side of the frame.

  198. #198
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    115
    I could post some later on today, you want detailed pics?

  199. #199
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    7,168
    Quote Originally Posted by Finalgear View Post
    I could post some later on today, you want detailed pics?
    Yes please, your tire clearance to the stays, thanks.
    Also, do you have any means to measure the HTA...like those dial thingies for construction?

    China Carbon AM Duallies-p5pb11365297.jpg

  200. #200
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    21
    Thanks a lot Finalgear. I'll be waiting for your feedback after the weekend.
    Just curious about one more thing, did you ever weighted the frame?

Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Carbon forks from China?
    By letitsnow in forum Fat bikes
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 10-17-2014, 01:23 PM
  2. China carbon bike builders
    By jhmeathead in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 11-25-2013, 05:45 PM
  3. niner vs. china carbon forks
    By gonzo in forum Singlespeed
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 01-04-2013, 07:27 AM
  4. is a china carbon seat comfy ?
    By Norwayrider in forum Weight Weenies
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 10-24-2012, 02:44 PM
  5. Slack and short ~140mm duallies
    By DurtDigglah in forum Bike and Frame discussion
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 11-28-2011, 01:59 PM

Members who have read this thread: 73

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2020 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.