Best 27.5 wheelset money can buy??- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Best 27.5 wheelset money can buy??

    I have been told that wheelset is hands down the most important thing for a bike, even more important than the frame!! I have a Scale 700 RC and i wanna put the best wheelset possible on it, any suggestions?

    ...I really wish that Roval Carbon SL came in size 27.5!!

  2. #2
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    "Best" is subjective. A racer wants a light stiff wheel. Someone that does large drops, wants a strong wheel that will stay true under hard use. A trail rider might want a wide rim that gives a larger contact patch to give better traction.

    There is no "best" for everyone. Only a wheel that does what YOU want it to do.
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    Ok, by best i mean the stiffest and fastest XC race whhel

  4. #4
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    NOX Composites Skyline with Industry Nine hubs. Stiff, Light, and Wide.

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    Last edited by eb1888; 02-26-2015 at 09:35 PM.

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    Ok thanks i'll read up on those. I was also just reading up on ENVE Twenty7.5 XC they don't look too shabby

  7. #7
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    I've always had great luck with Mavic SLR wheels. Never had
    a problem with any of them. They are light and fast. However
    if money wasn't a factor I'd go with some ENVE rims and DT
    Swiss 190 or 240 hubs.

  8. #8
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    ENVE M50 on DT 240 Centerlock or 180 Centerlock Hubs.

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    Syntace, for those who are tired of replacing cracked carbon wheels.

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    I have zero experience with carbon rims. I can endorse the I-9 recommendation and currently have Chris King which also have instant engagement. I like either much better than the engagement of the DT Swiss. For rims I'm perfectly happy with my Stan's Crest and if money allowed think I would try Stans carbon rims or the Enve rims.

    BTW, go for hand built for better options and just a lighter build.You can spec it for your riding style and weight.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by brentos View Post
    ENVE M50 on DT 240 Centerlock or 180 Centerlock Hubs.
    I think i'm gonna go with ENVE M50s with DT Swiss 240 hubs. Is it worth it to get ceramic hub upgrade?

  12. #12
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    Where do you ride?

    The Nox Skyline is wider, stiffer, and lighter than the M50...

    You should really consider them. Absolutely fantastic company. All wheels are built by hand as well.

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    I ride more flat surface than anything. When offroad I am on fireroads and mild terrain (which is why i choose hardtail over FS). So my #1 desire for my wheelset is flat steep hill climbing ability, and #2 is durability. Not that durability isn't important but people do WAY more punishing things on their bikes than me so I think anything in this price range would be plenty durable fore me


    ...however if NOX is lighter, stiffer, and wider it might climb just as well AND with more durability so maybe that is a better choice...my decision is pending lol, i suppose i'm being biased because i'm so familiar with ENVE & DT Swiss, never heard of NOX

  14. #14
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    They are a relatively new company, 3 or 4 years old. Two engineers from the national lab in Oak Ridge, TN that know carbon and wheels extremely well. Uber smart guys. If you have any questions, just email them, they will answer you.

    I know people who absolutely punish their wheels...yet they remain true and stiff. The asymmetrical design is pretty darn slick and builds up into an overall stiffer wheel. The guys that build their wheels up are top notch.

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    I can also con sider going with NOX Skyline rims and DT Swiss 240 hubs!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jrlyons21 View Post
    If you're like me and you totally geek out on bike physics...
    Nah not really, my technical interest revolves around just 2 concepts;

    -Me Ride Bike
    -Me Go Fast!!

    Lol, i'll take a peak at those links though.

    I'm starting to get greedy and eye up the DT Swiss 180 Hubs! It's funny i was bummed out a couple days ago because i second guessed not buying the SL instead of the RC...now i'm excited to 'B1tch Slap' the SL with a superior wheelset than it's Syncros XR1.0 haha

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    TIME OUT!! If i go on NOX's website and select the Skylines with DT Swiss hubs it give me an option to upgrade to ceramic bearings for just $80. I didn't know the 240 even had that option. Isn't the ceramic bearings the biggest improvement by far between the DT Swiss 180 and the DT Swiss 240 with stainless steel bearings? In otherwords it seems like 240s with ceramic bearings is BY FAR a better deal that the hugh price jump to get to the 180s (similar to when people say that the smart money buys the XT package over XTR)

  19. #19
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    Note that wheels are one of the first things to break if you ride hard. So, unless you're pro level athlete, you won't really notice performance difference between great and "best" wheelset, but it will cost significantly more and break just as easily if not easier.

    Unless you're bathing in cash, it's not very smart move...

  20. #20
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    I don't ride hard. But you're right i also don't wanna spend tons of money to go from a 9.7 quality to a 10 quality either. I seek a wheel & hub that maximizes potential but only up until you reach that famous point of diminised returns. Like i'll pay the extra money to jump from an 8 quality to 9.7, but forget about that final .3 percent (which is usually the most expensive). I'm thinking maybe the Skylite rims and DT Swiss 240s may be that point, what do u think?

    Lol i invite people like MarinCRO talking me down because i get a little nutty when i have my ATM card on me ha. The DT Swiss 180s may be an over reach (although they won't brake first like the rims would)

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott275 View Post
    TIME OUT!! If i go on NOX's website and select the Skylines with DT Swiss hubs it give me an option to upgrade to ceramic bearings for just $80. I didn't know the 240 even had that option. Isn't the ceramic bearings the biggest improvement by far between the DT Swiss 180 and the DT Swiss 240 with stainless steel bearings? In otherwords it seems like 240s with ceramic bearings is BY FAR a better deal that the hugh price jump to get to the 180s (similar to when people say that the smart money buys the XT package over XTR)
    The difference between the 180s and the 240s is not just ceramic bearings. It's weight.

    And, it's not an "option" with the 240s. They are simply knocking out the steel bearings and putting ceramic bearings in. DT has never offered those stock.
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  22. #22
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    Best, for actual XC racing:

    DT Swiss XRC 950T

    or

    ENVE XC Tubular on 180s or 240s

    And a nice set of tires.

    Really, there's nothing else out there that will compare.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott275 View Post
    I think i'm gonna go with ENVE M50s with DT Swiss 240 hubs. Is it worth it to get ceramic hub upgrade?
    As long as you want the best money can buy, get the ceramic upgrade. Make sure you maintain them!

  24. #24
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    Anyone with Hope Tech Enduro 27.5 wheelset? I am looking at them because i can get them for $430 online but pricematched at my LBS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    And, it's not an "option" with the 240s. They are simply knocking out the steel bearings and putting ceramic bearings in. DT has never offered those stock.
    Is that usually done pretty well or is it a ghetto rig job?

    Quote Originally Posted by MSU Alum View Post
    As long as you want the best money can buy, get the ceramic upgrade. Make sure you maintain them!
    What kind of maintenance are we talking, and are the 240s with replaced ceramic bearings in need of more maintenance then if you bought the DT Swiss 180s that come standard with the ceramic bearings? Like are comparing exposed bearings to air tight sealed bearings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Best, for actual XC racing:


    DT Swiss XRC 950T


    or


    ENVE XC Tubular on 180s or 240s


    And a nice set of tires.


    Really, there's nothing else out there that will compare.

    Now this was the most pure right out of the gate answer yet...BUT i looked them up and they don't come in 27.5", that's strange, they even have 26" man what a dis on 27.5ers

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    EDIT...double post
    Last edited by Scott275; 02-26-2015 at 07:13 PM.

  27. #27
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    Best 27.5 wheelset money can buy??

    Oh, they definitely make them. I saw about 20-30 pairs of them at the Windham World Cup race last year.


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    Ok thanks i'll keep looking so far all i found were 29 and 26

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    I think that the ceramic bearings are a sealed unit...bearings in a race, or sealed bearings. They don't replace just the balls. It does little good to put super hard ceramic balls in a race that is soft enough to be destroyed. The problem with wear is if contaminants get into the lubricant, the ceramic balls can damage the race. Also, if the race is ceramic, it can be brittle. Wheel builders can upgrade the 240 at a cost of about $300 extra. There are some sealed bearings, like Chris King that can have grease injected, pushing out the old contaminated grease. Also, super fast hubs tend to be more susceptible to water intrusion because heavy duty seals tend to create resistance to spinning.

  30. #30
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    Best 27.5 wheelset money can buy??

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott275 View Post
    Is that usually done pretty well or is it a ghetto rig job?



    What kind of maintenance are we talking, and are the 240s with replaced ceramic bearings in need of more maintenance then if you bought the DT Swiss 180s that come standard with the ceramic bearings? Like are comparing exposed bearings to air tight sealed bearings?




    Now this was the most pure right out of the gate answer yet...BUT i looked them up and they don't come in 27.5", that's strange, they even have 26" man what a dis on 27.5ers
    Sweet Jesus.

    These are regular sealed cartridge bearings. Like in 95% of hubs out there.

    You press them in, and pull them out. It's not "ghetto"; that's the standard procedure for every hub with cartridge bearings.


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    That sounds like ZERO maintenance to me that's right up my alley!! Ok guys i'm gonna go with NOX Skyline wheels and i'm gonna splurge on the hubs and go with DT Swiss 180s

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    What does the XD option for the free hub mean?

  33. #33
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    XD free hub is compatible with 11sp SRAM cassettes.

  34. #34
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    that I9 stuff is sssseeeeexxxxxyyyyyyyy

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    I am currently running the Giant P-XCR0 (carbon) wheelset and love them. Came in at 1440g and are built with DT Swiss carbon rims and for the most part DT Swiss 240 hubs.

    I just priced out the NOX 275 wheels and they are right in line with Giants price for the Giant carbon wheels. I got mine for around $1500 but that is because I race for the LBS that I use.

    Those NOX dont seem bad for the money, better the ENVE pricing for sure. As long as NOX stands behind them that is all that matters.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrlyons21 View Post
    NOX Composites Skyline with Industry Nine hubs. Stiff, Light, and Wide.
    Why is that the best? Not slamming them, but even their own site says you only get a 8% increase stiffness with the asymmetrical rims. So why pay that much for their rims?

    You can Derby's for about $100 less and LB for about 1/2 per rim.
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  37. #37
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    OP you have to define best for you before going half cocked based on the recommendations here.

    There's already a thread/pissing match about hubs on here somewhere.

    Is the engagement important to you? DT is a fine hub, but if you want anything close to the engagement of I9 or King you have to spend $104 on an upgraded ratchet set.

    I9 have great engagement, but it's still a pawl style hub. To be blunt, you want the best hubs that need very little maintenance? That's King, but they weight more than the others, so if weight is most important then King won't be the best for you.

    I've had 3 wheelsets with DT, my last 2 I went back to King. Here is a good video so you can see the differences in the hub designs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxSr...ature=youtu.be

    My first King hubs are over 10 years old and I've never pulled them apart, still spin like they were new.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Is the engagement important to you? DT is a fine hub, but if you want anything close to the engagement of I9 or King you have to spend $104 on an upgraded ratchet set.

    I9 have great engagement, but it's still a pawl style hub. To be blunt, you want the best hubs that need very little maintenance? That's King, but they weight more than the others, so if weight is most important then King won't be the best for you.
    .
    I have to plead novice ignorance here I don't know what is meant by paying for an upgraded ratchet set for better engagement?? I have a Scott Scale 700 RC if that helps.

    Now i have recieved conflicting information because i was speaking with an ENVE salesman today and he told me that Chris Kings need to be adjusted after a bit whereas DT Swiss 240s & 180s are a set it and forget it hub. Lol don't worry being confused in here isn't new i'm used to it. I'm not weight obsessed as much as i simply wanted the most butter like free rolling hubs...the ENVE guy actually told me that the best economical way to do that is with the Chris Kings with ceramic upgrade, and he told me that the most maintenance free & spare no expense way was the 180s

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott275 View Post

    Now i have recieved conflicting information because i was speaking with an ENVE salesman today and he told me that Chris Kings need to be adjusted after a bit whereas DT Swiss 240s & 180s are a set it and forget it hub. Lol don't worry being confused in here isn't new i'm used to it.
    The adjustment on Kings is a 2 second twiddle with an Allen key to tweak the preload. Definitely no reason to put them aside, any muppet can do it. I had to do it once when my hubs were new after a couple of rides and never since. I think DT hubs are plain boring both in sound and in look and in performance not better than many other hubs already mentioned here but that's just my opinion

  40. #40
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    Yeah i'm prob gonna change my plan and go with Chris King with ceramic upgrade instead of spending a mint on 180s

  41. #41
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    Best 27.5 wheelset money can buy??

    There are plenty of teams without wheel or hub sponsors on the WC XCO circuit. They all use DT, not King.

    I find it strange that they even get mentioned in a discussion about race wheels.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    There are plenty of teams without wheel or hub sponsors on the WC XCO circuit. They all use DT, not King.

    I find it strange that they even get mentioned in a discussion about race wheels.


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    Where is this a discussion about race wheels. OP asked about the best.

    Best doesn't automatically equal lightest, that's all DTSwiss has over King.

    On the WC XCO circuit weight is the end all be all. If you read my post you saw I flat out said if weight is #1 then skip Kings.

    He did mention he like maintenance free- That is why I said Kings. If weight isn't #1 priority then Kings are the best.
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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott275 View Post
    Ok, by best i mean the stiffest and fastest XC race whhel
    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Where is this a discussion about race wheels. OP asked about the best.

    Best doesn't automatically equal lightest, that's all DTSwiss has over King.

    On the WC XCO circuit weight is the end all be all. If you read my post you saw I flat out said if weight is #1 then skip Kings.

    He did mention he like maintenance free- That is why I said Kings. If weight isn't #1 priority then Kings are the best.
    There was a roll-down test a few years ago that measured losses from hubs/bearings. All variables (spokes, rims, tires, psi) standardized, DTs are faster.

    I'll see if I can find it.

    Also, there is no such thing as a maintenance free hub. All hubs, if you ride them long (and hard) enough, need maintenance. I can knock the bearings out of DT hubs without special tools. I can replace them with a standard sized bearing that most bike shops carry. If no one has them, I can order them on Amazon prime and have them at my house the next day. You can't say either of those things about CK.

    Additionally, it's worth noting that bike shops like FWB down in Tucson recommend DT 240s over all others, regardless of weight, to their customers. Particularly for their durability.
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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarinCRO View Post
    Note that wheels are one of the first things to break if you ride hard. So, unless you're pro level athlete, you won't really notice performance difference between great and "best" wheelset, but it will cost significantly more and break just as easily if not easier.

    Unless you're bathing in cash, it's not very smart move...
    Not necessarily. I've broken more than 30 MTB frames and never taco'd a wheel.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    There was a roll-down test a few years ago that measured losses from hubs/bearings. All variables (spokes, rims, tires, psi) standardized, DTs are faster.

    I'll see if I can find it.

    Also, there is no such thing as a maintenance free hub. All hubs, if you ride them long (and hard) enough, need maintenance. I can knock the bearings out of DT hubs without special tools. I can replace them with a standard sized bearing that most bike shops carry. If no one has them, I can order them on Amazon prime and have them at my house the next day. You can't say either of those things about CK.
    CK bearings very, very rarely need to be replaced.

    Sure you might need special tools to do it, but you'll probably never need to.

    this is because CK bearings are angular contact - meaning they're adjustable. if they wear a little bit - you can adjust out the slop.

    DT uses simple sealed bearings - which are not adjustable and not rebuildable. So when they wear (and they will) you will have to rebuild them.

    DT bearings also don't handle slop very well. So if you ride in the winter/mud - plan on replacing that bearing much earlier.

    CK's are built out of stainless steel and can literally be ridden full of water.

    And should your CK's get full of mud - they're easy to clean out, lube up and keep going. Even trail side.
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  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    There was a roll-down test a few years ago that measured losses from hubs/bearings. All variables (spokes, rims, tires, psi) standardized, DTs are faster.

    I'll see if I can find it.

    Also, there is no such thing as a maintenance free hub. All hubs, if you ride them long (and hard) enough, need maintenance. I can knock the bearings out of DT hubs without special tools. I can replace them with a standard sized bearing that most bike shops carry. If no one has them, I can order them on Amazon prime and have them at my house the next day. You can't say either of those things about CK.

    Additionally, it's worth noting that bike shops like FWB down in Tucson recommend DT 240s over all others, regardless of weight, to their customers. Particularly for their durability.
    So one shop now is gospel. Wow no need for forums reviews or anything else, let just ask them whats best.

    Like I said DTSwiss are good for what they are good for. If you want lost weight over everything else they are the hub for you. They spin faster because thier seals aren't as good- its simple, King have slight seal drag because their seals are better. Better seals keeps more crap out of the bearings. More crap kept out of the bearing, less wear and maintenance.

    You don't even bother addressing the low POE of the DTs. You need the Trek 54t ratchet upgrade to make it comparable to other high POE hubs. It's really simple, the engineering behind Kings ring drive is superior, that doesn't make the 'best' for everyone.

    I'm not going to get into a pissing match. I current have 3 King wheels set and a DT 350 wheel set. Had a Dt 240 and another 350 wheel set. My personal experience lead me back to Kings and I'l be sticking with them.

    My first Kings were put on my 2000 Sworks, don't have the bike still have the wheels and have never opened them up. King hubs are like Shimano brakes- They just work and don't need a ton of fiddling with. I went disk with that wheel set and the 4 piston XT brakes have never been bled.

    Both still working as well as day one.
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    To the engagement question the OP asked in regards to the DT hubs. Stock they come with 18 point engagement star ratchets. That means there is 20° between each tooth inside the hub.

    You can upgrade to an 36T (10° of movement), 54T (6.67° of movement) or a 72T (5° of movement) ratchet. As said they are around $100 but that gets you both of the star ratchets, new springs and a tub of the DT Swiss ratchet grease.

    The 54t and 72T ratchets you will have to get from a Trek dealer. I have the 36T in my carbon wheel set and love it, the reduced play and take up from the 18T is very noticeable. Especially while on the trail coming from slow speed transitions. As soon as you hit the pedals the hub picks up and starts moving.

    it literally takes you less than 5 minutes to change out the ratchets in the DT Swiss hubs. It will take you longer to get the wheel off of the bike than it takes to swap the ratchet out. I like the DT Swiss setup over the pawl style hubs, less moving parts in the DT Swiss setup.
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    Anybody rocking Atomik carbons?? If so whats the verdict on these?
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  50. #50
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    Three are lots of super nice wheels out there that cost a rather large fortune. If you ride a lot and like to keep your stuff for a while then cost of maintenance becomes a factor.

    For hubs I run either XTR or Dt-240s. Both are easy to maintain and find parts for (both require you to put maintenance into them too). For rims and spokes I like Stans Crest with Dt Revolution spokes. The rims are light, stiff enough for me, and cheap and easy to replace when I slam them too hard into rocks.
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    In my experience, if you don't have the knowledge to know which $2-3k wheelset you want...you don't have the experience to feel the difference between them.

    And I speak from riding a buddies enve's and i9's. I mean they good, but as a 210lb rider it ain't the wheelset holding me back.

    Also, I agree with the above comments: Kings for Durability, i9's for bling and DT's for weight. Get some enve or nox hoops.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJay74 View Post
    To the engagement question the OP asked in regards to the DT hubs. Stock they come with 18 point engagement star ratchets. That means there is 20° between each tooth inside the hub.

    You can upgrade to an 36T (10° of movement), 54T (6.67° of movement) or a 72T (5° of movement) ratchet. As said they are around $100 but that gets you both of the star ratchets, new springs and a tub of the DT Swiss ratchet grease.

    The 54t and 72T ratchets you will have to get from a Trek dealer. I have the 36T in my carbon wheel set and love it, the reduced play and take up from the 18T is very noticeable. Especially while on the trail coming from slow speed transitions. As soon as you hit the pedals the hub picks up and starts moving.

    it literally takes you less than 5 minutes to change out the ratchets in the DT Swiss hubs. It will take you longer to get the wheel off of the bike than it takes to swap the ratchet out. I like the DT Swiss setup over the pawl style hubs, less moving parts in the DT Swiss setup.
    Ok thanks. 36 sounds like an upgrade worth while.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 6_Myles View Post
    In my experience, if you don't have the knowledge to know which $2-3k wheelset you want...you don't have the experience to feel the difference between them...Get some enve or nox hoops.
    I was very dissapointed when i realized that my, what i thought to be, ALL carbon bike had an aluminum wheelset. I do not at all have the experience you're talking about...but here's the question, where is the balance between wanting to treat yourself to a quality carbon wheelset (which you can feel the difference) and going too far (to where u can't even tell the difference)? It might lie in NOX vs ENVE M50 because NOX is $850 cheaper. It may also lie in DT Swiss 240 instead of super expensive 180.

    In other words what is a premo bike 'For Me'? Surely you can tell high quality carbon from aluminum. Another consideration may simply be that everyone needs a vice. I drive a piece of crap car and don't care. I'm thankful i have the itch to splurge on a premo bike more than a premo car lol. I actually work with a few premo car guys and it's funny they'll think i'm insane for what i'm willing to spend on a bike. But yet they'll quadruple me on their car lol.

    I may not be able to help it but my mouth waters when I see those ENVE M50 rims!! I might get them. As for the DT Swiss 180s i'm turned off by their inferior durability to the 240s

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    Thanks for sharing

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    Best 27.5 wheelset money can buy??

    Based on recent comments, I'd throw some Kings/240s on 30/35 Chinese carbon rims and call it good.

    You sound like you don't know that much about bikes. Everyone is there at some point. But, if you don't know what you actually want, because you don't have the pool of knowledge necessary to formulate opinions, don't blow $2.5k on wheels.

    Figure out what you really want out of them, and what works best for you, in your area.

    You can do that without breaking the bank.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Based on recent comments, I'd throw some Kings/240s on 30/35 Chinese carbon rims and call it good.

    You sound like you don't know that much about bikes. Everyone is there at some point. But, if you don't know what you actually want, because you don't have the pool of knowledge necessary to formulate opinions, don't blow $2.5k on wheels.

    Figure out what you really want out of them, and what works best for you, in your area.

    You can do that without breaking the bank.


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    I agree, that's what my last 3 wheels set have been. DT350/Derbys King/LB 30/35s. Much cheaper than any of the pre-build carbon wheels.
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  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott275 View Post
    I was very dissapointed when i realized that my, what i thought to be, ALL carbon bike had an aluminum wheelset. I do not at all have the experience you're talking about...but here's the question, where is the balance between wanting to treat yourself to a quality carbon wheelset (which you can feel the difference) and going too far (to where u can't even tell the difference)?
    Try riding the aluminum rims, you might find that they work just fine. There will not be a night and day difference between a really nice aluminum wheelset and a really nice carbon wheelset. Once you ride a laterally stiff wheel that is light weight, the differences between wheelsets are subtle.
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by laffeaux View Post
    Try riding the aluminum rims, you might find that they work just fine. There will not be a night and day difference between a really nice aluminum wheelset and a really nice carbon wheelset. Once you ride a laterally stiff wheel that is light weight, the differences between wheelsets are subtle.
    I don't think I've ever had a aluminum wheelset that was nearly as laterally stiff as my carbons...

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    I think my best move is to split the difference between my desire for carbon and my inability to tell the difference between best and 2nd or 3rd best. Splitting the difference will be NOX over ENVE M50 ($850 cheaper), and 240s over 180s (although extra durability of the 240s over the 180s swayed me anyway...but a big price savings going with the 240s!!).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott275 View Post
    I think my best move is to split the difference between my desire for carbon and my inability to tell the difference between best and 2nd or 3rd best. Splitting the difference will be NOX over ENVE M50 ($850 cheaper), and 240s over 180s (although extra durability of the 240s over the 180s swayed me anyway...but a big price savings going with the 240s!!).
    I would go LB or Derby over NOX. Still cheaper and just as good. Read NOXs on info on the website, their rims provide a whopping 8% stiffer wheel.

    You can Derbys for about $100 cheaper per rim and LB at less than 1/2 of NOX rims. Take that money and put into nice hubs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by laffeaux View Post
    Try riding the aluminum rims, you might find that they work just fine. There will not be a night and day difference between a really nice aluminum wheelset and a really nice carbon wheelset. Once you ride a laterally stiff wheel that is light weight, the differences between wheelsets are subtle.
    I noticed a difference going from a 36h FlowEx wheelset to a 32h carbon wheelset.

    Your weight may play a part in if you feel it or not. I'm 200-210lbs and not afraid to get off the ground.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    I noticed a difference going from a 36h FlowEx wheelset to a 32h carbon wheelset.

    Your weight may play a part in if you feel it or not. I'm 200-210lbs and not afraid to get off the ground.

    I'm not saying there's no difference or it can't be felt. But the difference between a $600 and a $2000 wheelset is not going to be as dramatic as going from a $150 wheelset to a $600 wheelset - particularly for a newer rider.

    For "the best" fire road climbing wheel, I'm not sure that he'll notice much of a difference at all between his current set (assuming it's a nice wheelset) and a more expensive one. But yes, there are differences.
    Each bicycle owned exponentially increases the probability that none is working correctly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    I would go LB or Derby over NOX. Still cheaper and just as good. Read NOXs on info on the website, their rims provide a whopping 8% stiffer wheel.

    You can Derbys for about $100 cheaper per rim and LB at less than 1/2 of NOX rims. Take that money and put into nice hubs.
    He asked for the best...isn't 8% stiffer better than non-asymmetric (symmetric)? NOX wheels were the first wheels I've ever had that didn't have uneven spoke tensions after 250 miles.

    Have you ever owned NOX wheels? I've owned Derbys and two sets of NOXs...just curious why you think they aren't as good?

    And NOX has a far superior warranty and reputation IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    I would go LB or Derby over NOX. Still cheaper and just as good. Read NOXs on info on the website, their rims provide a whopping 8% stiffer wheel.

    You can Derbys for about $100 cheaper per rim and LB at less than 1/2 of NOX rims. Take that money and put into nice hubs.

    I own a wheelset of LB 650b 35mm DH with Hope hubs and dt swiss spokes and nipple. All I can say its freaking awesome, its stiff and durable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by laffeaux View Post
    I'm not saying there's no difference or it can't be felt. But the difference between a $600 and a $2000 wheelset is not going to be as dramatic as going from a $150 wheelset to a $600 wheelset - particularly for a newer rider.

    For "the best" fire road climbing wheel, I'm not sure that he'll notice much of a difference at all between his current set (assuming it's a nice wheelset) and a more expensive one. But yes, there are differences.
    Current wheelset is

    Front Hub: Syncros XR RC CL / 15mm made by DT Swiss
    Rear Hub: Syncros XR RC CL / 12 × 142 / RWS, XD Body / made by DT Swiss
    Rims: Syncros XR RC, 28H / Tubeless ready

    Unfortunately not the carbon Syncros like the SL model. If i had the carbon Syncros I wouldn't be upgrading.

    They are unused, does anyone have any idea of a realistic price that I can hope to sell this wheelset for on ebay?

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott275 View Post
    Current wheelset is

    Front Hub: Syncros XR RC CL / 15mm made by DT Swiss
    Rear Hub: Syncros XR RC CL / 12 × 142 / RWS, XD Body / made by DT Swiss
    Rims: Syncros XR RC, 28H / Tubeless ready

    Unfortunately not the carbon Syncros like the SL model. If i had the carbon Syncros I wouldn't be upgrading.

    They are unused, does anyone have any idea of a realistic price that I can hope to sell this wheelset for on ebay?
    I think the most significant thing you will "feel" is ~a pound of weight savings. Then running lower psi will yield better traction. Then the stiffness difference between aluminum and carbon.

    If you go with i9s or Kings, you would notice significant POE difference.

    I have no idea what you would be able to sell those for...$300?

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    Better hubs and POE does more good than better rims?

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    Depends...from what you are saying...probably no. I'd rather have a stiffer lighter rim, than high POE, but that is a preference thing...

    But I will say that I prefer i9s to DT240s. Better POE. And about maintenance...I replace the bearings in my i9s every 1,500 miles. That's not a high maintenance part IMO.

    Are your brake rotors 6-bolt or centerlock?

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    160/R mm SM-RT99 CL Rotor, is that 6 bolt? My bike is still in the box still too cold out

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    I'd imagine CL stands for Center Lock. You need to check to make sure before buying anything.

    Your hub needs to be compatible with your rotors; either ISO 6-bolt, or Shimano Centerlock.

    Assuming your rotors are indeed Shimano Centerlock...

    If you get 6-bolt compatible hubs, you will also need new rotors...6-bolt rotors to be specific.

    If you don't want to buy new rotors, then make sure you get Shimano Centerlock rotor compatible hubs. The only options for those are DT Swiss and Shimano hubs as far as I know.

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    Yeah there's the CL clue plus my bike has Shimano XTR brakes so it's gotta be center lock. Perfect because I want center lock and I want DT Swiss

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    Quote Originally Posted by jrlyons21 View Post
    He asked for the best...isn't 8% stiffer better than non-asymmetric (symmetric)? NOX wheels were the first wheels I've ever had that didn't have uneven spoke tensions after 250 miles.

    Have you ever owned NOX wheels? I've owned Derbys and two sets of NOXs...just curious why you think they aren't as good?

    And NOX has a far superior warranty and reputation IMO.
    Where did I say they weren't as good. I just pointed out that the extra money for a 8% difference might be money better spent on better hubs. That's an opinion just like your's is.

    I have bought 2 carbon wheelsets in the last year. Each time I debated NOX whether or not to go NOX. 8%, thats a great number, sounds great on paper, what does it mean in real life?

    I know going from FlowExs to carbon I felt a difference, but going from carbon LB or Derby will I be able to feel 8%- doubtful.

    You must be tuff on wheels if your having problems after 250 miles. My Derbys were built by Mike- not a single problem. Who built your Derbys?

    Who says NOXs rep is better? You. Based on what?

    Yea they have a 2 year vs. a 1 year- they should they cost at least $100 more than Derby and 2x LB.

    And back to the word best. It the stiffest wheels possible the best? maybe maybe not- maybe some compliance in the wheels is better.
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  73. #73
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    Best 27.5 wheelset money can buy??

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott275 View Post
    Yeah there's the CL clue plus my bike has Shimano XTR brakes so it's gotta be center lock. Perfect because I want center lock and I want DT Swiss
    Huh? You can use any 6-bolt hub, or any CL hub, with any modern disc brake.

    Example: I have 2 pairs of CL, 2 pairs of 6-bolt. I can switch them between my bikes with XTR, XT, Avid BB7 and my wife's bike with XX brakes.


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    Deleted
    Last edited by TheOrca; 03-04-2015 at 12:39 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott275 View Post
    Yeah there's the CL clue plus my bike has Shimano XTR brakes so it's gotta be center lock. Perfect because I want center lock and I want DT Swiss
    The brake calipers don't matter, its specific to the rotor...

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    Sorry when i'm asked a question i may definately give a bone head response i don't know the compatability details too well.

    Although i'm pretty sure i will not spend the insane $$ for the ENVE M50s, can you guys give your opinions on the M50 stiffness & quality as compared to Nox, Derby, and LB? Jeez $100 extra per rim is one thing but the M50s would be about $425 A PIECE over Nox. You say Nox was 8% stiffer, how about M50 stiffness? Just out of curiousity (too expensive not worth it, especially with the slim chance of breaking a rim)

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott275 View Post
    Sorry when i'm asked a question i may definately give a bone head response i don't know the compatability details too well.

    Although i'm pretty sure i will not spend the insane $$ for the ENVE M50s, can you guys give your opinions on the M50 stiffness & quality as compared to Nox, Derby, and LB? Jeez $100 extra per rim is one thing but the M50s would be about $425 A PIECE over Nox. You say Nox was 8% stiffer, how about M50 stiffness? Just out of curiousity (too expensive not worth it, especially with the slim chance of breaking a rim)
    At some point you need to just decide where you want to put your money.

    All the wheels I'm talking about have been 29er cause that's what I ride and getting a stiff wheel in that size is a lot harder than in 27.5.

    So my thoughts, between all the carbon rims out there, I doubt you'll feel the difference between any of them.

    Enve are that price because they are made here in the US and the spoke holes are molded not drilled.

    NOX, they went asymmetrical. Again, claims 8% stiffer. I'm sure it is, my personal opinion, it was more about setting themselves apart.

    So again, just my opinion, I paid $420 for both my LB rims shipped, ouch, noticed NOX price went up, the rim is now $480's so I got both rims for $60 less than a single NOX rim.

    My point was you can take that extra $540, go with King or I9 hubs instead of DT, nicer spokes, buy 6 bolt rotors through a local builder and still come out less than NOX wheels.

    Also, I'd ask NOX, why a wheel build w/ DT 240s hubs is $40 more than a King build, considering a King hub costs more - This just based at looking at the cost for a rear wheel.
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    Learning curve man. It's why this site exists. Sharing information and opinions. I've never owned an ENVE rim so I can't say I know that they are stiffer or not as stiff.

    I think more important factors than comparing one carbon wheels stiffness to another carbon wheels stiffness are weight and rim dimension.

    I know I couldn't tell the difference in stiffness (8%) between Derby's and my NOX. I could tell a difference in the maintenance aspect of truing when it came to balance spoke tension that asymmetric rims offer...

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrlyons21 View Post
    Learning curve man. It's why this site exists. Sharing information and opinions. I've never owned an ENVE rim so I can't say I know that they are stiffer or not as stiff.

    I think more important factors than comparing one carbon wheels stiffness to another carbon wheels stiffness are weight and rim dimension.

    I know I couldn't tell the difference in stiffness (8%) between Derby's and my NOX. I could tell a difference in the maintenance aspect of truing when it came to balance spoke tension that asymmetric rims offer...
    Preference that by saying you're hard on wheels. I'm 210lbs, jump my bike and haven't had a problem with my Derbys, I thinks it more a function of the builder.

    I had a well respected builder put my wheels together, yours at the LBS.
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  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Preference that by saying you're hard on wheels. I'm 210lbs, jump my bike and haven't had a problem with my Derbys, I thinks it more a function of the builder.

    I had a well respected builder put my wheels together, yours at the LBS.
    I'm trying to avoid arguing with you TwoTone. We obviously have our preferences, and they are different. I respect that. I'm simply sharing my opinions with the OP. I do agree that just because a wheel is more expensive does NOT mean it is the "best".

    FWIW I am not the easiest on wheelsets and my LBS is an excellent wheel build shop that also built both sets of my NOX wheels.

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrlyons21 View Post
    I'm trying to avoid arguing with you TwoTone. We obviously have our preferences, and they are different. I respect that. I'm simply sharing my opinions with the OP. I do agree that just because a wheel is more expensive does NOT mean it is the "best".

    FWIW I am not the easiest on wheelsets and my LBS is an excellent wheel build shop that also built both sets of my NOX wheels.
    Please don't take it as that. I'm not either. I just think that telling an inexperienced person that there will less maintenance from the NOX rims isn't the best thing. Plenty of people are hard on non Asymmetrical wheels and don't have issues needing constant truing.

    Just an FYI I have a 150mm rear wheels so I get the tension balance, I just haven't notice a difference between the 2 as far as one needing more truing than the other. It's safe to say I'm not light on my stuff either.
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  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Please don't take it as that. I'm not either. I just think that telling an inexperienced person that there will less maintenance from the NOX rims isn't the best thing. Plenty of people are hard on non Asymmetrical wheels and don't have issues needing constant truing.

    Just an FYI I have a 150mm rear wheels so I get the tension balance, I just haven't notice a difference between the 2 as far as one needing more truing than the other. It's safe to say I'm not light on my stuff either.
    Ok good. Once again, I'm just sharing my experiences.

    Sorry OP.

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    No problem. I'm finding out that the most dangerous thing you can ask in here is if something is 'Better' lol

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    I've learned that at the end of the day, we all share the same passion and that's exactly what leads to these sort of discussions...passion. I kinda think it's a good thing. I've learned a TON from people on here! TwoTone included.

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    Late to the party but the new Mavic SL wheelset seems to be one of the most over engineered wheelsets on the market today and they MSRP for less than $1k. They are 1470 grams for a 27.5 and they do not require rim tape to run tubeless (saves ~70g). They meet UST standards. There is about a 2 week lead time for Mavic parts on most occasions but they are available and won't break the bank. You can just buy these things and throw them on your bike. The whole wheelset is covered by warranty... no need to find a good builder separate warranties or whatever.
    Killing it with close inspection.

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    Only bad about Mavic is the proprietary hubs, spokes, their warranty and warranty process suck balls. Had a set of the road wheels, only had 500 miles on them when the hub broke internally and broke a spoke. Sent them in, Mavic had them for 6 weeks and told the shop it would be another 4-6 weeks before they could get them back to us.

    Luckily for me the shop gave me my purchase price credit back in store and sold me another set of wheels. Last year alone I know of 3 people locally that had issues with Mavic wheels that took 8 weeks or more to get the wheels fixed and back in the owners hands.
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  87. #87
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    ^This.

    Mavic hubs are the hottest of hot garbage.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireLikeIYA View Post
    Late to the party but the new Mavic SL wheelset seems to be one of the most over engineered wheelsets on the market today and they MSRP for less than $1k. They are 1470 grams for a 27.5 and they do not require rim tape to run tubeless (saves ~70g). They meet UST standards. There is about a 2 week lead time for Mavic parts on most occasions but they are available and won't break the bank. You can just buy these things and throw them on your bike. The whole wheelset is covered by warranty... no need to find a good builder separate warranties or whatever.


    You keep thinking that.
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    20 spokes...no thanks
    Mavic...no thanks

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    Has anyone used nextie. 50mm? How durable is the nextie?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jrlyons21 View Post
    The brake calipers don't matter, its specific to the rotor...
    I'm thinking the op's comment was that he didn't want to have to buy new rotors is all.
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    I decided to first just put my bike together as is and ride it for awhile with the Syncross wheelset...i'll either A - appreciate the better wheelset more after being on the aluminum for awhile, or B - i'll wind up saying screw it the Syncross set is fine, depends how i'm feeling after a few months on it, will i be totally content or will i get the itch for improvement? I'll see

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    Lol I went into my lbs and where i'm going to have my wheels built thinking I wanted either WTB or DT swiss rims. Left there thinking about mavic rims or LB. If mavic was wider i'd consider them. The 30/24 LB rims look pretty good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jrlyons21 View Post
    20 spokes...no thanks
    Mavic...no thanks
    Their spokes are a lot thicker than standard spokes and they use something like a 6mm nipple. The rim profile is very well engineered and whatever rim material they are using is very strong. I have had 4 sets with 0 issues. I'm still riding an old 2009 model of the Crossmax ST rim brake version (yes, rim brake) which is only 18/20 spokes and they've only needed retensioning twice since new...
    Killing it with close inspection.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireLikeIYA View Post
    Their spokes are a lot thicker than standard spokes and they use something like a 6mm nipple. The rim profile is very well engineered and whatever rim material they are using is very strong. I have had 4 sets with 0 issues. I'm still riding an old 2009 model of the Crossmax ST rim brake version (yes, rim brake) which is only 18/20 spokes and they've only needed retensioning twice since new...
    Really?

    I had the crossmax enduro 650b I broke the spoke and hub. Its freaking difficult to replace it. I have to wait 3 months for the parts.... Hope hubs are better than mavic.

    Get a custom wheelset similar to mine

    its LB 650b 35mm DH version with Hope hubs. This setup is way stiffer than my old Mavic crossmax enduro. I like the fast engagement of hope hub. Only problem its noisy.

    its 1/2 the price of crossmax enduro wheelset .

    Best 27.5 wheelset money can buy??-fullsizerender.jpg

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by rave81 View Post
    Really?

    I had the crossmax enduro 650b I broke the spoke and hub. Its freaking difficult to replace it. I have to wait 3 months for the parts....
    I replaced the rim on one set when I flat spotted it pretty bad... It actually didn't really flat spot but rather developed a lot of spider webbing in the area (I think they harden their rims). The wheel was still straight but I replaced it anyway. I went through Art's Cyclery and a new rim was $70 shipped. I got it in 2 weeks. Things may be a little different now with Mavic then what you experienced. Jenson USA stocks spokes. Their new hubs are better than the older ones but they did have a recall in the beginning. Their hubs are compatible with most standards without having to order conversion kits. Aren't LB rims based in China? There are a large # of individuals that have dealt with the warranty process on MTBR. There's the time zone difference with emails and waiting for overseas shipment. I don't know if they still require you to ship your failed rim back to them. I was interested in LB for a while and heard they were going to open a service center in the states so things may be different for them as well. NOX is US based. ENVE is USA made and has a good warranty. Easton CF is another to look at. Those are really stout for the $. With Mavic I think you are getting 95% of the performance for half the price.
    Killing it with close inspection.

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireLikeIYA View Post
    With Mavic I think you are getting 95% of the performance for half the price.
    Now that is funny
    Ripley LS v3
    OG Ripley v2 handed down to son

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireLikeIYA View Post
    I replaced the rim on one set when I flat spotted it pretty bad... It actually didn't really flat spot but rather developed a lot of spider webbing in the area (I think they harden their rims). The wheel was still straight but I replaced it anyway. I went through Art's Cyclery and a new rim was $70 shipped. I got it in 2 weeks. Things may be a little different now with Mavic then what you experienced. Jenson USA stocks spokes. Their new hubs are better than the older ones but they did have a recall in the beginning. Their hubs are compatible with most standards without having to order conversion kits. Aren't LB rims based in China? There are a large # of individuals that have dealt with the warranty process on MTBR. There's the time zone difference with emails and waiting for overseas shipment. I don't know if they still require you to ship your failed rim back to them. I was interested in LB for a while and heard they were going to open a service center in the states so things may be different for them as well. NOX is US based. ENVE is USA made and has a good warranty. Easton CF is another to look at. Those are really stout for the $. With Mavic I think you are getting 95% of the performance for half the price.
    yeah lb is based at china, but their service is pretty good. I have no problems with my wheelset its pretty tough. Nox might be based in USA but their rims are made in China. Enve is based in USA but their rims sucks I broke one before and Enve is bloody experience in Australia it cost between $2800 to $3500 per wheelset.

    Mavic in Australia is different. All parts of mavic we have to wait to ship it from France.

    another wheels worth looking at are the derby or ibis

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