All Mountain Hardtail 650B?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    All Mountain Hardtail 650B?

    I'm just wondering at this point, but...

    I've been riding a 29er for a few months now, and while I enjoy the bike a great deal, it isn't quite built for the kind of riding I do - which could best be classified as "all mountain." Additionally, while I like the rolling momentum and clearance of the big wheels, as well as the size (as I am a larger person the wheels seem to fit me a bit better), the long wheelbase, slightly sluggish acceleration, and somewhat unruly cornering tendencies at high speeds of the big wheels have been sources of frustration. I'm tempted to go back to a 26er hardtail with a nice 130mm fork up front, but I'm curious if a 650b setup might work better for me. A frame like the Santa Cruz Chameleon would be ideal for me, but I know that one won't fit the 650b wheels. Any comparable 26er frames out there compatible with 650b wheels that might work for me? I'm thinking perhaps the Velvet on the front, although I'm wonder how tough that fork is - I'm 6'4", 220 lbs, and I ride hard, with some jumps and drops up to about 3 feet. Something like the On One 456 or the Mountain Cycles Rumble would be ideal, as I also would want to have the setup be singlespeed.

    Any thoughts?

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattbryant2
    I'm just wondering at this point, but...

    I've been riding a 29er for a few months now, and while I enjoy the bike a great deal, it isn't quite built for the kind of riding I do - which could best be classified as "all mountain." Additionally, while I like the rolling momentum and clearance of the big wheels, as well as the size (as I am a larger person the wheels seem to fit me a bit better), the long wheelbase, slightly sluggish acceleration, and somewhat unruly cornering tendencies at high speeds of the big wheels have been sources of frustration. I'm tempted to go back to a 26er hardtail with a nice 130mm fork up front, but I'm curious if a 650b setup might work better for me. A frame like the Santa Cruz Chameleon would be ideal for me, but I know that one won't fit the 650b wheels. Any comparable 26er frames out there compatible with 650b wheels that might work for me? I'm thinking perhaps the Velvet on the front, although I'm wonder how tough that fork is - I'm 6'4", 220 lbs, and I ride hard, with some jumps and drops up to about 3 feet. Something like the On One 456 or the Mountain Cycles Rumble would be ideal, as I also would want to have the setup be singlespeed.

    Any thoughts?

    Thanks!

    On One 456 with a RS PIKE or Fox Vanilla!!

    I'm 6'1" and I ride an OEM Komodo with a 2005 Vanilla. This setup is perfect. 130mm fork feels wonderful on the trail. I have the option of setting it at 100mm, but I hated it in comparison. The taller front end gives it more stability and comfort and the extra 1" of travel makes it soooo much more plush.

    With 2.35" Kenda Excavators...I have no problem rolling over things. The 2" 650b tires are probably comparable in diameter to the 2.35" 26'er. (almost) the 2.3" Moto's are taller, but I am really liking my 26" setup for strength and versatility. The extra frame/fork clearance is a bonus too.

  3. #3
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    Hmm... after looking at the 456 again, I realized it doesn't have horizontal dropouts. So singlespeed wouldn't be an option, and I really don't want to run gears.

    I may end up going back to a 26er, but I thought maybe a 650b setup would be the best of both worlds for me.

  4. #4
    Mr.650b - Mr.27-5
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattbryant2
    Hmm... after looking at the 456 again, I realized it doesn't have horizontal dropouts. So singlespeed wouldn't be an option, and I really don't want to run gears.

    I may end up going back to a 26er, but I thought maybe a 650b setup would be the best of both worlds for me.

    I don't know if it qualifes as "AM" but, fwiw, the Surly 1x1 is practically made for 650B wheels... really a perfect fit all around and you end up with a 12.1" - 12.2" BB height.

    Maybe the Surly Instigator would accept 650B wheels just as readily?
    Last edited by Kirk Pacenti; 08-01-2008 at 02:05 PM.

  5. #5
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    Sinister Ridge. a Fine AM hardtail. It was designed around a 160 fork, so if you put a shorter travel fork (say 130), and larger wheels the BB would end up in a similar height. Bruce at Sinister says the Ridge fits the Neo, but I haven't seen it yet.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk Pacenti
    I don't know if it qualifes as "AM" but, fwiw, the Surly 1x1 is practically made for 650B wheels... really a perfect fit all around and you end up with a 12.1" - 12.2" BB height.

    Maybe the Surly Instigator would accept 650B wheels just as readily?
    The 1x1 is designed around an 80mm suspension fork - add an extra 2" and that BB is going to be significantly higher. Additionally, I wouldn't feel comfortable using a fork that much longer than the frame was designed to accommodate.

    The Instigator has only vertical dropouts, so it couldn't be ran as a singlespeed without a tensioner.

  7. #7
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    Very hard to find, but an Evil Sovereign would kick ass as a 650b AM Single Speed.

  8. #8
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    I have posted this before, but Here is my On One 456 that i have Single speeded with the Neo-Motos, Needed a White Industries ENO Eccentric hub for the clearance. Though im running rigid forks, for a more XC ride, i love it. The steep angles make it quite a fast turner through the singletrack, which the Neo-Moto tyres eat up.

    So the 456 can be done.






  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG
    Very hard to find, but an Evil Sovereign would kick ass as a 650b AM Single Speed.
    A sweet frame, but with a 5" fork the bottom bracket is already at 13". I'm sure 650b wheels would fit, but would bring that up even higher.

    Also, both sizes have a 16.5" seat tube. For me that would leave over a foot of exposed post. Scary.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by stu44
    So the 456 can be done.
    Nice. I'm wondering if a bottom bracket height of 13" is too high. Could always go a bit shorter on the fork, I suppose.

  11. #11
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    Get a Surly Instigator and pair it up with an White Industries ENO eccentric rear hub and voila - there's your bike!

  12. #12
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    I totally forgot about the eccentric hub until stu44 posted his 456. I don't know what I was thinking.

    The Instigator is heavy but would probably be about right for the job. What fork would you recommend? Is the Velvet up to the task? How do you think a bike like that would ride?

  13. #13
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    69er

    I am running a trek 69er, 26" for acceleration in the rear with a fox 100mm up front. I have been on 29ers for the last 3 years and will not go back after riding this setup. i am also interested in a 650b frame but the 69er is just the ticket for now...



  14. #14
    Doesntplaywellwithmorons!
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    The BB height on my build is nearly 14" with a Psylo Race fork (125mm) but I have no problem with that. Hell, its made it easier to clear some big logs as it happens... and if you've ever ridden a Mountain Cycles San Andreas before, you're well used to a high BB.
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

  15. #15
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    Any new options discovered in the last seven months?

    Hardtail, horizontal drops, on the beefy side and able to accommodate a 130mm fork and 650b Neos?

  16. #16
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    Soul Cycles Icon is your new bike.


    Beefy
    SS capable
    5" of travel
    I'm pretty sure the Neo fits

    www.ridesoul.com

  17. #17
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    <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotography/3186245212/" title="650B Soul Cycles Icon by Cracked Headtube, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3255/3186245212_8517fc1771.jpg" width="500" height="333" alt="650B Soul Cycles Icon" /></a><br><a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotography/3185406835/" title="650B Soul Cycles Icon by Cracked Headtube, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3535/3185406835_58b50b7ec0.jpg" width="333" height="500" alt="650B Soul Cycles Icon" /></a><br><a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotography/3185405495/" title="650B Soul Cycles Icon by Cracked Headtube, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3300/3185405495_1013df8977.jpg" width="333" height="500" alt="650B Soul Cycles Icon" /></a><br>

  18. #18
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    That looks really sweet, actually. The only problem is that I'm 6'4" with a 34" inseam -- even the 18" is going to feel tiny to me.

    I wonder if the slot drop Inbred is the way to go? The 20" would be close to a good fit for me. The BB would end up at about 13", which might be just about right. I'm just worried about the clearance (I've only been able to find one picture on here of the tire clearance, and it looked pretty close) and whether or not that frame is going to be tough enough.

  19. #19
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    Has anybody tried a 650b wheel in an Orange Crush frame?

    http://mtb.unrealcycles.com/catalog/item436.htm

  20. #20
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    I don't know if 650b would fit but I like that frame!

  21. #21
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    Seems like with over 17" of chainstay it might be able to fit a 650b?

  22. #22
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    The Haro Beasley 1x9 frame is the perfect starting point for a 650B All-Mountain hardtail already... it just needs a double/triple ring crankset, front derailleur & shifter, and a 5" travel suspension fork (the Psylo Race i'm using is actually only an inch longer than the stock rigid fork, so with 20% sag its identical in terms of head angle). I'm still finalizing my bar/grips choice so I haven't taken pictures yet of my 2x9 setup.
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

  23. #23
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    Not sure of the cost or how it all works but this is something I came across when looking at singlespeed options.

    http://forwardcomponents.blogspot.co...et-patent.html

    Good luck on your findings

  24. #24
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    Origin 8 spy frame. $300. 4130 steel, look at the monster clearance, plus it's a horiz.D.O.

    20" would fit you great. I'm 6'1" and ride a sonix lt b'd. Love it for an all mountain geared fs bike. This is what i'm planning for my SS.

    http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/2365034/

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight
    The Haro Beasley 1x9 frame is the perfect starting point for a 650B All-Mountain hardtail already... it just needs a double/triple ring crankset, front derailleur & shifter, and a 5" travel suspension fork (the Psylo Race i'm using is actually only an inch longer than the stock rigid fork, so with 20% sag its identical in terms of head angle). I'm still finalizing my bar/grips choice so I haven't taken pictures yet of my 2x9 setup.
    I put a 100mm Reba 29er fork on the front of the Beasley 1x9 and it transformed the bike into a great front suspended hardtail trail bike.

  26. #26
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    I like the Beasley frame, but I'm really not interested in an EBB. That's the issue with the 456 and the Instigator, as well -- I don't know about using the WI eccentric hub for the kind of riding I want to do. I'm hoping for something slightly overbuilt so I can do drops and jumps and not have to worry about my 225 lbs breaking anything. This is also my concern with the Inbred -- I don't really think it is made to take the kind of abuse I want to give a bike with 5" of suspension.

    So far the only viable option seems to be the Sinister Ridge, which is a bit out of my price range (and I have been unable to find even a single used large frame). A 21" seat tube is perfect for me, but I can probably make the 19" Ridge work (I would have 10.5" of exposed post).

    If only I had the money to get a custom frame! It always seems like the kind of bike I want is simply not produced.

  27. #27
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    Someone just recently built up a Brodie 8 ball into a 650b - that might take the 130mm fork you desire to use and I think it is a frame that uses horizontal dropouts as well.

    Worth investigating perhaps.

  28. #28
    Doesntplaywellwithmorons!
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattbryant2
    I like the Beasley frame, but I'm really not interested in an EBB.
    As I said... the 1x9 frame... its got vertical dropouts and a regular BB. ONLY the SS frame version gets the EBB (it also lacks any sort of cable guides or derailleur hanger, its meant for singlespeed only).
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

  29. #29
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    FWIW, I just finished speccing and ordering up slightly beefier Truetemper steel tubesets for some more All-mountain oriented 650b bikes. They'll be the same geometry as the HorrorTaxi (because that geometry makes bike riding sooo much fun), and the same price... A wonderfully re-adjusted and more production oriented $860.

    FWIW,
    That Soul bike looks really great, and would be my pick for a cost-sensitive 650b AM build, for sure!

  30. #30
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    Blt

    BLT = (650)B, Long Travel

    Had this built recently...

    IFBLT_09Mayr2009 017.jpg

    IFBLT_23May2009 011.jpg

    Not sure if I'd call it "all mountain", but my On-One 456 was the inspiration.

    For working out the geometry, used the A-to-C and offset measurements from the WB 130mm 650B fork, but had the Maverick DUC32 with a 29er conversion kit sitting around. Sent the DUC to Ethan at Maverick bikes who trimmed the spacers...travel should be 135mm - 140mm.

    Working with Indy Fab was great...welds, paint, all outstanding. The color is called "carbon".

    Spec...
    King HS...XT cranks...Mav front/White Industries rear hubs laced to Blunts...M775 brakes...XTR shifters and rear derailleur, XT front derailleur...Seven custom ti bars (replicate bend/width of Surly Crow Bar)...ROC ATAC pedals.

    Weight = 26.98#

    Only a few rides, but very nice so far.

    Thanks for looking!


    -Raynman59

  31. #31
    Mr.650b - Mr.27-5
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    Quote Originally Posted by raynman59
    BLT = (650)B, Long Travel

    Had this built recently...

    IFBLT_09Mayr2009 017.jpg

    IFBLT_23May2009 011.jpg

    Not sure if I'd call it "all mountain", but my On-One 456 was the inspiration.

    For working out the geometry, used the A-to-C and offset measurements from the WB 130mm 650B fork, but had the Maverick DUC32 with a 29er conversion kit sitting around. Sent the DUC to Ethan at Maverick bikes who trimmed the spacers...travel should be 135mm - 140mm.

    Working with Indy Fab was great...welds, paint, all outstanding. The color is called "carbon".

    Spec...
    King HS...XT cranks...Mav front/White Industries rear hubs laced to Blunts...M775 brakes...XTR shifters and rear derailleur, XT front derailleur...Seven custom ti bars (replicate bend/width of Surly Crow Bar)...ROC ATAC pedals.

    Weight = 26.98#

    Only a few rides, but very nice so far.

    Thanks for looking!


    -Raynman59

    Gorgeous bike!

    Cheers,

    KP

  32. #32
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    sickest bike I have ever seen. No joke, simply inspirational.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG
    I put a 100mm Reba 29er fork on the front of the Beasley 1x9 and it transformed the bike into a great front suspended hardtail trail bike.
    Hummm, wonder how the White Bros IM 80 29er fork would rock on a Beasley 1x9.

    Though the Riv. Atlantis (26" tire version) looks like it would swallow 650B wheels with no worries.

  34. #34
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    I'd think an 80mm White Bros 29er fork would be fine on a Beasley 1x9 or SS!

  35. #35
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    xxx
    Last edited by hellocook; 06-25-2011 at 06:16 PM.

  36. #36
    bikeboatbrewski
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    old post to the top

    I am working on a Haro Beasley frame into a XC/gravel grinder with a White Magic 4" fork. I would say it could be beefed up to AM if money and desire are there.

  37. #37
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    Interesting that this thread has re-surfaced because I was just looking at those Swobo Folsom frames and wondering if it would be a good candidate for an AM/Urban, SS, 650B kinda bike. Swobo claims a headtube angle of 70 degrees and a chainstay length of 430mm. That's the same head tube angle as my Inbred and the chainstay is 5mm longer on the Swobo.

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