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Thread: 650 B-visited

  1. #1
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    650 B-visited

    Had a reevaluation of 650B wheels today. I'm down in Fla where it's not super technical but there are still lots of small things to run over and roots every where that kind of beat you up even with suspension.

    I've been thinking a 29er would work pretty well but I don't have the money to buy a new bike. I even thought of buying a front wheel and fork and making a 69er but that was going to be quite a bit of money if I wanted good stuff. Also the trails aren't rough enough to warrant 2.5 meaty tires so the final decision was to order a Stan's 650B wheel with a Crest rim and a 2.35 Navegal to match my rear Nav and make a 656er or what ever people call it.

    The 1/2 inch rise only did good things to the geometry imo and I have a 1/2 inch spacer under my stem that I could take out to put me in the same relating to the ground as before, but for now I just left it there and am not hurting for it. I might try it later to see how it feels.

    I've been poo-pooing the 650 mania ever since I built up my SS with a 650B front wheel (26er rear) because I really couldn't tell the difference unless I tiredsuper hard to notice and even then it seemed slight.

    But from analysis of the conditions down here a little bigger wheel seemed like a good idea and a 650 is a little bigger than what I was running (1 inch for the same width) so I though I'd give it another shot. Plus a Stan's wheel and a new tire doesn't cost too much and is still pretty light weight.

    Today was the first ride and I have to say that it is an verifiable improvement. It rolls over stuff noticeably easier and doesn't get hung up as much and lessened the shock to the bars. Dropping off small ledges and going down steep stuff was even better. Yeah I was pleasantly surprised. I mean it's not like a 29er difference but it is still a difference, toward the better.

    I think what made it stand out this time verses last time were a few thing. Primarily on the first try I went from a 2.5 meaty 26er tire to a moderate 2.35 650 tire and between those 2 the diameter difference is pretty slight plus there are advantages to the fatter tires in many situations. This time I was running the same tire ( 2.35 Nav) in 26 inch then went to the 2.35 650 Nav which is a full inch different. Also down here I only have one trail bike so I'm totally dialed into it at this point and can feel small changes better, where at home I have several bikes to choose from an switch out all the time.

    I still wish they would make fatter 650B tires to have more options to choose from but I have to admit that even with a 2.35 as the fattest 650B is an improvement over the same width 26er. For those who never run anything bigger than a 2.35 I think you will like 650. Having one on the back would be nice too, but that means a new frame, so 656er it is.

  2. #2
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    B6er does seem to give 70% of full 650b.

  3. #3
    NedwannaB
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    Wondering if you'd notice abit more "bigger" tire feel on the 2.35 if you had ran the Flow or P35 rims? Just sayn.
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    Wondering if you'd notice abit more "bigger" tire feel on the 2.35 if you had ran the Flow or P35 rims? Just sayn.
    Possibly. I'm a fan of wider rims. But overall dia is pretty key.

  5. #5
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    Wider rims definitely change how a tire rides. When I converted my Trek 8500, I went from a 28mm wide rim (Rhythm/Duster) to a 33mm wide 650B rim (MTX33) and it was the same as when I went from 28mm (Blunt) to 35mm (P35) on my 29er. The extra width fattens the tire and gives it much more cornering grip IMO.

    650B on my 8500 made it better in every way. It doesn't feel like a 29er at all, but it's definitely better than the 26in wheels.

  6. #6
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    Looks like Sun/Ringle doesn't make a 650 MTX33 any longer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    Wondering if you'd notice abit more "bigger" tire feel on the 2.35 if you had ran the Flow or P35 rims? Just sayn.
    Yep. Neo 2.3 blows out to a 2.4 on a P35. I don't run a 2.3 any more as a Neo 2.1 on a
    P35 is a generous 2.25 size..Adds about 2mm width to that on a Blunt. Adds much needed extra volume for abit more cush and speed over the rough stuff.

    I don't thionk Flows would give any extra width over a crest. Crest is designed to blow tire width out as flow isn't.

  8. #8
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    You're doing it perfectly. I was think of Florida racing when I did the geometry for my 650b bikes. Those ******** embeded rocks and sharp brooks in the apexes of corners are brutal so that teeny extra bit of grip is awesome but there are some wicked fast tight corners when you need to over-steer a bit to really moto through the twisties but the overall surface tends to be smooth and flat or loose over hardpack with some short but brutal root gardens.
    Gosh I like riding down there.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by gvs_nz View Post
    I don't thionk Flows would give any extra width over a crest. Crest is designed to blow tire width out as flow isn't.
    Yeah I looked at the diagram of the Flows and the Crests before I bought. I was going for the Flows because of overall width but if you look at the width of where the tire seats it's only 1.6mm wider where it counts so I opted for less weight. If the flows had been say 5mm wider I would have gone for them.

    I find that wider rims make for a much more stable and predictable tire. Less chance of rolling over and ability to comfortably run less pressure too.

  10. #10
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    I have an issue that I guess I'm going to ignore for the moment since I only noticed it the 2 places on the trail that can generate a G-Out. The issue being that some time ago I had measured the fork I have, a Pace Fighter RC40, which is a rocking fork btw, and had found that it wasn't suitable for a 650B tire. But this trip I measured the arch and there was plenty of clearance so I assumed that last time I measured was before I actually owed a 650 and that I had the wrong numbers. Well it turns out I was right the first time. There is no brace problem but there is about 1/2 inch crown problem at full compression. I measured it after hearing a buzz on the 2 G-Outs.

    So yes technically this is a problem but in actuality I'm not sure. While I could hear the tire hit I could not feel it at all, it didn't slow the bike down that I noticed, or pitch me forward.

    The fork is a spring rather than air fork so I can't up the rate. I'm on the way to loosing a little weight so that might help some, I also upped the compression dampening to max to see what that does. On the trail I ride most of the time down here 9 out of 10 rides (because it's 20 minutes away instead of 45 on the highway) it's not going to be an issue. On the other trail it might be but I'll have to test it out. On more all mountain terrain I probably wouldn't risk it.

    I guess that's how the fork gets away with 150mm travel with such a short A2C.

    I'm going to stick with it until I get launched over the bars, or not. Not like that's never happened

  11. #11
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    Being coil,they must have a bottom out bumper you can add a spacer too?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by gvs_nz View Post
    Being coil,they must have a bottom out bumper you can add a spacer too?
    That's a possibility. I'm not set up too well for anything but minor surgery down here but if the tire/crown interference proves to be an issue that is a good solution. Thanks

  13. #13
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    where in FL are you? PM me.

  14. #14
    Mr.650b - Mr.27-5
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    Quote Originally Posted by modifier View Post
    Looks like Sun/Ringle doesn't make a 650 MTX33 any longer.
    It will be OK.

    Cheers,
    KP

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk Pacenti View Post
    It will be OK.

    Cheers,
    KP
    Kirk!

    Are you saying, we could order Pacenti 650b rim-brake 36h rims in any of those widths?!

    Whoa!!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk Pacenti View Post
    It will be OK.

    Cheers,
    KP
    1. when are the '31's available?

    2. what are the 'other' colors?

  17. #17
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    We've had rain the last few days so today was the first time back on the trail. I turned the compression dampening up to max and it seems to have fixed my tire rubbing the crown problem. No buzz at the g-out sections. I might try to force it next time to see what it takes but at least for that trial system it seems ok.

    Now if I hadn't lost the clutch on my truck on the way to the trail and hadn't needed to drive home in bumper to bumper traffic w/o one things would be rosy.

    Oh, and still liking the 650 on the front and still feeling the difference.

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