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  1. #1
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    Soliciting advice, suggestions, criticism of older Super V upgrade plans

    New forum member here, been mountain biking since about '90 but haven't seriously ridden in over 15 years. Was really into it in mid to late '90s. Owned a 1993 Cannondale Delta V full suspension, then picked up a mid-90s Mountain Cycle San Andreas frame and built it up myself, sold the Delta V, raced San Andreas XC and DH, then San Andreas was stolen (with over $5K into it), and I got out of the scene for a while. Picked up my current bike, a 1998 Super V 600, off ebay in about 2004. Iíve put maybe 700 miles on it since then. Now that I have a second son on the way (first son is about to be 3 years old), itís time to get my old ass back in shape (Iím 46). Over the past couple months Iíve ridden maybe 200 miles including a few 10-15 mile road rides. Most of the rides have been around 5 miles with my son in his little kid cart attached to my Super V. After towing about 45-50 lbs of kid & carrier I feel like Iím flying when I head out solo. Soreness/numbness in my wrists, shoulders, lower back, ass, etc. is starting to subside (especially after dialing in my stem length & angle). Now Iím ready to hit some singletrack and continue upgrades to the bike. Iím in Arizona so trails are dry & rocky.


    Oldschool Super V as it sits now:



    3x setup with Shimano XT front & rear derailleurs, 44-32-22T front rings and 8 speed 11-30T rear cassette.



    Shimano XT levers & CODA V-brakes. Love the levers, hate the v-brakes.


    Recently switched out the old OEM CODA cranks for a set of used RaceFace Next Forged cranks (the ones with the gimmicky forged & ďcarbon fiberĒ inserts). Not my favorite but for $50 local craigslist pickup they are better than the rickety old bent CODAs.Probably OEM bottom bracket, square taper, Iíve never touched it but it still spins free & smooth.


    Switched out the old OEM P-Bone 60mm travel headshock (coil spring & elastomer, oil dampening) for a Super Fatty air-oil 80mm travel off of ebay. Wanted more travel but just as important wanted the disc brake mounts.Damn Super Fatty isnít holding air Ė may try to rebuild myself or just send it in to Mendon Cyclesmith.


    Still have the OEM Fox Vanilla 5.75Ē rear coil spring shock mounted but just last week I picked up a nearly new 6.5Ē Fox Float Factory Kashima. Canít believe the weight difference Ė 438g vs. 209g! Iíll have to drill the forward mounting tabs 0.75Ē further forward and shave the tabs. Have investigated that process here on MTBR.



    Rims are Mavic X139 559X19 (19mm internal width), Shimano Deore hubs, Panaracer Fire XCPro 2.1 tires. Also ditched my old clipless pedals and slapped on a pair of Nukeproof Horizon platforms Ė this has been the best upgrade so far.


    Iíd really like to run a 1x setup with an 11-speed rear. The thing is that I like the higher gears with my 44T ring when Iím running on the paved bike paths with & without my son in tow.I can count the number of times Iíve used a granny gear front chainring on one hand.I can easily live in my 32T front ring for nearly everything except higher speed cruising when I jump to the 44T.



    So Iím thinking of the following items Ė please tell me what you think is a good idea or bad based on your experience:



    RaceFace Turbine Cinch cranks 30mm spindle, RaceFace Cinch BSA30 bottom bracket, RaceFace narrow-wide Cinch ring, 38T.



    Shimano XT CS-M8000 rear cassette, 11 speed, 11-40T or 11-42T.


    Shimano XT RD-M80000 11 speed rear derailleur (GS cage for 1x setup).


    Shimano XT SL-M8000 I-Spec II 11 speed rear shifter.



    Shimano XT/Ultegra CN-HG701 QL Chain for 11-speed.



    Shimano XT BR-M8000 disc brake set.


    Shimano XT SM-RT86 6-bolt Ice-Tech rotors (180mm front, 160mm rear).


    Sun Inferno 25 wheelset (26Ē of course) with Shimano XT 756 front & rear hubs with 6-bolt setup and quick release axles. The Inferno 25s are 20.3mm internal width & 25mm outside width. I only want to run a 2.2 or 2.3 tire. I used to run a 2.5 when downhilling my San Andreas and that was on 19mm rims! Iíve gone back & forth on tubeless tires and right now Iím pro-tube and anti-tubeless. Tubeless just sounds like a pain in the ass. School me if Iím wrong. Would mean a new choice of rim.



    What do you all think? Iím probably looking at a good $800 all-in and that is if I can get a 15% off first order discount from a certain website.Iíve already dropped about $470 on the upgrades so far.And all this will be going into a 20 year old bike I picked up 14 years ago on ebay for $400 shipped.Makes perfect sense.


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  2. #2
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    My first thought is no. $800 will get you pretty far looking at a gently used bike from the last 5 years. Keep the current bike for tow duty if you want, but don't dump any more into that thing.

  3. #3
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    Check out the brake forum as there have been people with issues on m8000 brakes (namely the pump-up problem). There are newer XT 8020 brakes but they are twice the price and 2x the pistons. You might want to consider Zee brakes. I'm not saying don't get the XT just be aware of the issue.

    if you want a cheaper option: SLX brakes, RT66 rotors, keep cranks as is

    of course totally up to you, sounds like you know your stuff and enjoy quality components as well as keeping ole' steeds going! I put a good deal of money into an old frame myself, cheaper than a new bike anyway.

    As for tubeless, it's great but not a necessity. If you want lower psi without pinch flats, or you get alot of flats it makes more sense.

    Welcome aboard!

  4. #4
    Hardtail Steel Forever
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    I can completely relate and I'm a person who keeps bikes going forever, I've built up 2 min-90's 26in bikes in the past 2 years and another 2012 26in bike just prior to those. But, I'm having a hard time coming up with a recommendation. $800 feels like a lot more to me to sink into this old of a bike.

    One thing you might consider is just converting the cranket to 1x or 2x, then throwing a 10 or 11 speed cassette on the back. You can get the cost down quite a bit right there and you don't have to deal with RF's garbage 30mm BB. There are good 30mm BB's, RF's is not one of them.

    Additionally, the SLX groupset is very usable and can be quite a discount over XT especially if you get anything lightly used on ebay or craigslist.

    Otherwise, I might suggest demoing or renting some fairly-recent mid level bikes and see how you like the feel of them and if that's something you might enjoy more than upgrading everything on this one. At least that way, you'll have some idea what you're going to be dealing with.
    WTB: Med Bontrager Ti Lite, PM Me...

  5. #5
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    Do not put any more money into that bike except what is required to keep it rideable.

    BTW, I have the XT M8000 brakes on 5 bikes. Over the years, on those 10 brakes, I've had problems with one and it was covered by warrantee.
    The M8020 is a completely different 4 piston brake.

  6. #6
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    I must agree with the above posters, don't put any real money in the Super-V.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSU Alum View Post
    Do not put any more money into that bike except what is required to keep it rideable.

    BTW, I have the XT M8000 brakes on 5 bikes. Over the years, on those 10 brakes, I've had problems with one and it was covered by warrantee.
    The M8020 is a completely different 4 piston brake.
    good to know. if you are going to do 1 upgrade make it brakes.

  8. #8
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    I appreciate the replies! For better or for worse, I just really like the Super V. It's really in mint shape and I'm a firm believer in holding onto and taking care of things and they'll take care of you. My off-road truck is a 2004 with 165K miles and my little run-around sports car is a 1998 with 163K miles. But I did trade in the 1963 wife for a 1976...so I'm not totally opposed to change.

    As far as dumping money into this ancient bike, the way I figure it is that nearly all the parts will be transferrable to a new frame if I ever feel like upgrading the actual bike. I really have no interest in a 29 but I'd consider a 27.5". The truth is that 26" has always worked fine for me....if it ain't broke then don't fix it. I'm at a point in my life where the budget isn't the most important consideration and another $800 is no big deal if I get what I want. I also want to go with all new components - I've been watching ebay and I can get an XT M8000 disc brake setup for about $140....for another $40 I can get new with a warranty. It's a no-brainer.

    I've researched keeping the RaceFace cranks and putting a single narrow-wide ring on, but all I can find to fit my ancient 94mm BCD 5-bolt setup is a 32T Wolf Creek narrow-wide. That's literally all I can find. I think 32T is too small for my needs. I've done all the ratio calculations and right now my current range is 0.73 to 4.00. With a 32T ring and an 11-42T cassette my range would be 0.76 to 2.91. With a 38T single ring and the same cassette my range would be 0.90 to 3.45....much closer to my current 4.00 top end. I guess I could always buy the Wolf Creek 32T and see how it rides.

    I've also seen some bad reviews on the RaceFace BBs. I'll stay away from them no matter which way I go.

    Any opinions on the Sun Ringle Inferno 25s? Bicycle Wheel Warehouse is offering a set with XT hubs for only $165 (plus $30 delivery). I'd love to go full-bore and get some Chris King hubs and lighter rims but I really don't want to drop $500+ on rims. I have a hard time mentally justifying spending more than twice the $$$ on one rim vs. another when it really won't make any difference to me at my basic level of riding. But you can't beat that King freewheel sound... Maybe I'll reconsider this. Anyone know of great deals on 26" rims right now?

  9. #9
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    There are quite a few MTBR forum posts from the past that may be of help:
    https://www.google.com/search?q=1998...w=1920&bih=949

  10. #10
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    My story is very similar to yours; respectable cat1 racer in the early 90s, off the bike (and out of shape) for years, kids, started riding then racing again at about age 44 moving back into the top of masters cat1 xc and cx. I also still ride a 26er most of the time, so I'm not against the old stuff (and I keep a lot of old stuff forever too). When I got back into riding, my main bike was a Clark Kent ti frame with all my good old race parts, and I was very attached to it and liked it a lot. As I got back into racing I bought a used Kona Kula Dlx 29er for about $850 on ebay, and I immediately realized I was faster on the 29er. I cracked the kona frame after 2 seasons and went with a carbon frame, and then last summer bought a carbon fs bike for the rougher races. Over time that ti 26er felt less and less good, and handled 'weird' compared to the modern bikes. I put all the parts onto a ti Raleigh frame (one of the Tomac signature ones made in Russia), which I like a little better, but still is not my favorite bike. I do most of my training on a 26er univega ht I built up with spare parts (I actually kind of like that bike).

    All that being said, I'm quite a bit faster on either of my 29er race bikes, and the newer Fox or Rockshox are mostly really great. My advice is to keep the old V as-is (especially since it's in mint cond), and use that budget towards a modern bike, they really have improved, - I would rather race a 29er hardtail than a 26er fs. I think I paid $900 on CL for my kids no-name carbon hardtail 29er, with xt and slx, stans/hope wheels, - you can get a lot of bike for around $1k in the used market.
    carry clippers! cut something off the trail every time you ride.

  11. #11
    BOOM goes the dynamite!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegill View Post
    I appreciate the replies! For better or for worse, I just really like the Super V. It's really in mint shape and I'm a firm believer in holding onto and taking care of things and they'll take care of you. My off-road truck is a 2004 with 165K miles and my little run-around sports car is a 1998 with 163K miles. But I did trade in the 1963 wife for a 1976...so I'm not totally opposed to change.
    Taking care of it, sure. Spending $$$ on upgrades, I can't see it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegill View Post
    As far as dumping money into this ancient bike, the way I figure it is that nearly all the parts will be transferrable to a new frame if I ever feel like upgrading the actual bike. I really have no interest in a 29 but I'd consider a 27.5". The truth is that 26" has always worked fine for me....if it ain't broke then don't fix it. I'm at a point in my life where the budget isn't the most important consideration and another $800 is no big deal if I get what I want. I also want to go with all new components - I've been watching ebay and I can get an XT M8000 disc brake setup for about $140....for another $40 I can get new with a warranty. It's a no-brainer.
    Except why not just upgrade the bike by buying a nice used bike that someone else already spent the money to upgrade and realized it's money you don't get back.

    Or you could get the SLX M7000 brakes, which perform basically identical for $120 or less...now that's a no brainer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegill View Post
    I've researched keeping the RaceFace cranks and putting a single narrow-wide ring on, but all I can find to fit my ancient 94mm BCD 5-bolt setup is a 32T Wolf Creek narrow-wide. That's literally all I can find. I think 32T is too small for my needs. I've done all the ratio calculations and right now my current range is 0.73 to 4.00. With a 32T ring and an 11-42T cassette my range would be 0.76 to 2.91. With a 38T single ring and the same cassette my range would be 0.90 to 3.45....much closer to my current 4.00 top end. I guess I could always buy the Wolf Creek 32T and see how it rides.
    Your gear ratios are unique to you...no clue here, but I still run 2x on one bike for a bigger range. Works great even if it's not en vogue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegill View Post
    I've also seen some bad reviews on the RaceFace BBs. I'll stay away from them no matter which way I go.
    They're OK, but yeah. They don't last me but a year or so either...but then again, they often come with the crank, so why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegill View Post
    Any opinions on the Sun Ringle Inferno 25s? Bicycle Wheel Warehouse is offering a set with XT hubs for only $165 (plus $30 delivery). I'd love to go full-bore and get some Chris King hubs and lighter rims but I really don't want to drop $500+ on rims. I have a hard time mentally justifying spending more than twice the $$$ on one rim vs. another when it really won't make any difference to me at my basic level of riding. But you can't beat that King freewheel sound... Maybe I'll reconsider this. Anyone know of great deals on 26" rims right now?
    The rims...well, there are plenty of others I'd choose first since I'm good with tubeless and don't like my rims that narrow (about 23-25mm ID for 2.3 is what I've found works best, but this is a VERY opinion/feel based thing). But odds are good when you look for a bike, it'll come with wheels...sometimes they're nice.

    ------------------

    The real point is that other old saying, "you don't know what you don't know". Until you ride a more modern bike it's hard to know just how much better they can be. More stable, climb better with less pedal bob, and on and on. If there's a demo event in your area, do yourself a favor and go.

    Then there's the emotional part...which is what I think you're struggling with. I totally get that. Just last year I finally went ahead and disassembled the first bike I ever built from scratch ('98 hardtail if that tells you anything). I tend to hang onto things too long, too. And that's OK. Just at some point I realized it was all about sentimental value and no matter how much money I threw at it, it wouldn't perform how I wanted it to. I got a new bike and am now making new memories and forming an emotional attachment to it as well. Such is the life of a mountain biker, I suppose.

  12. #12
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    sounds like a nice project you have going on. I am 60 years old have old school and new school bikes 26"650b and 29".First mtb was a 2001 Trek fuel 90, wish I could get that bike back I suggest you upgrade to tubeless ready or UST wheels and tires with sealant, why? it will vastly improve what little suspension you have. good luck finding those OEM with 9mm QR, option is to use adapters or go with a custom build. Trust me? tubeless is awesome, try it?

  13. #13
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    Turn the Cannondale into a gravel grinder/commuter and keep the 3X setup. Minimal investment needed. Take the funds you were going to spend and dump that into a nice used modern bike for the singletrack. Why settle on one bike when you can have 2!

  14. #14
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    Again, I appreciate the replies!

    Now you guys have me researching modern geometry and different frames that may catch my interest. I'm going to work up all the typical measurement stats on my current Super V to compare to newer frame parameters. Maybe I should keep the V like it is and make the jump to a 29. I'll have to surf the interwebs for used 29s and see what's out there.

    I'm so many years out of the loop - can you guys list some good used 29 make & model candidates? I'm 5' 10" and rollin around 200 lbs right now but the goal is to get down to about 185 in a couple months of serious cardio exercise.

  15. #15
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    or 29+, or 27.5, or 27.5+...

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegill View Post
    ...... But I did trade in the 1963 wife for a 1976...so I'm not totally opposed to change.
    I'm thinking about trading for something newer too....was it worth the investment?
    Bicycles don't have motors.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    i'm thinking about trading for something newer too....was it worth the investment?
    Yes!

  18. #18
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    I've jettisoned the front derailleur and I've been riding with just my 32T ring up front and the original 8-speed rear cassette (11-30T). I'm definitely under-geared and will eventually have to upgrade cranks so I can run a 38T ring. Now I'm thinking I really don't need a rear cassette that goes all the way up to 40 or 42 but I'll be installing a 10 or 11 speed anyway.

    Just ordered a wheel set from Colorado Cyclist. Stan's MK3 Arch Disc Rims with Shimano XT M8000 centerlock disc QR hubs. $401 delivered to my door, not bad compared to everything else I was looking at. Changing another tube this past weekend helped make me decide to make the jump to tubeless.

    Still have to drill out the forward shock mounting tabs to fit the 6.5" Fox Factory Float. Might find time to get to that this week.
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  19. #19
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    I had a 96 Super V in mango. Kept it until Ď04. Honesty, I tried to like it and kept it in good condition but once I spent a little time on newer bikes (Iím talking 2004 newer now) I was very happy to see it go.

    Try some demo days. It doesnít cost anything and you might be surprised how much you enjoy riding a modern bike.


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  20. #20
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    Bike geometry has changed/improved so dramatically since that Cannondale was made that I would definitely put the budget toward a new bike. For $800 you could buy an entry level hardtail 29er that would ride way better in virtually every situation.
    whatever...

  21. #21
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    I am keeping an eye out for newer frames, will probably be on one later this year. Would like to do a complete build again from the ground up. But Iíll keep it 26Ē and full suspension. I have no desire for an entry level hardtail. Will just put all these old parts back on the Super V and have it as a spare friend bike. All I need is to find something that inspires me. Until then Iíll build up old Super V.

  22. #22
    Hardtail Steel Forever
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegill View Post
    I am keeping an eye out for newer frames, will probably be on one later this year. Would like to do a complete build again from the ground up. But Iíll keep it 26Ē and full suspension. I have no desire for an entry level hardtail. Will just put all these old parts back on the Super V and have it as a spare friend bike. All I need is to find something that inspires me. Until then Iíll build up old Super V.
    Personal suggestion, look for ~2009 - 2013 Santa Cruz Blur LT2, heckler, superlight, depending on what geometry and travel you want, and other similar bikes. They're very capable and can take most of the components you have except the fork, most likely.

    Sounds like you have this frame figured out for the time being, so just have fun on it.
    WTB: Med Bontrager Ti Lite, PM Me...

  23. #23
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    Got all my pieces parts, trying to find the time to work on upgrading this thing.

    Started with the new rims & tires and man, this tubeless stuff is a pain in the ass.

    Quick question - does anyone have any experience with running Schrader valves on Stan's No Tubes instead of the Presta valves? I can't stand Presta and the damn adapters don't work for shit.

    This is what I'm looking at:

    Stan's NoTubes MTB Schrader Valve Stem | Jenson USA

    I realize my Presta hole in my Stan's rim is probably too small for the Schrader valve but I'm planning on just drilling it out a bit wider.

    I got one of my Continental Race King tires (front tire) to seat the bead with no sealant at all but it lost air over a few hours. Then I used the Continental Revo Sealant and brushed sealant all over the inner surface of the tire and it held air just fine. Then I followed the Conti directions and released the air, popped the bead, added about 100 ml of sealant, and aired up the tire again. Now it's slowly leaking from the valve stem seat. I've been shaking and rotating the tire and hopefully it will seal.

    The rear tire wouldn't seat the bead at all so I have a tube in there pumped up to train the tire. Will leave it like that for a day or so.

    I have a small on-board air compressor mounted in my truck and although it doesn't have a large tank, it does give a good initial burst of air that was enough to seat the front tire bead. I have a couple of those little Presta to Schrader adapters but they don't work well - I filed one down to get it short enough to allow the Presta valve to kick in the Schrader pin to activate the air flow through the Schrader valve but air leaks out all over the place and I can't get it to pump past about 40 PSI. I just want to forget about Presta altogether, I've always hated it.

  24. #24
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    When initially seating the bead, take out the valve core. I use a fairly robust compressor. To fill with a Presta valve I use a air tool connector placed over the entire valve. Works like a charm. Name:  30N276_AS01.jpeg
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  25. #25
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    You know what I think I did.....I think I clamped the silly little Presta collar too tight and ruined the Stan's tape seal at the valve opening. I had to push my air hose Schrader connection pretty hard to try to get a seal and I was pushing the Presta valve up into the rim and leaking there so I tightened it up. I'll see if a 6" strip of Gorilla tape with a new small hole for the valve will fix it. I'll try removing the Presta valve core too. But I always manage to bend the wimpy little Presta core every time I screw with it. Maybe I'll just buy the Schraders for Stan's and give them a try.

  26. #26
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    Success!

    Ordered the Stan's Schrader valves off of Amazon for about $16.

    Drilled out the Presta hole with a 5/16" bit and used a few inches of narrow Gorilla tape to re-seal the rim. Worked like a champ. The new Schrader valve leaked for a while on the front rim (same rim where the Presta wouldn't stop leaking) but it eventually stopped. There's probably only about 15-20 psi in the front right now but I'll let it rest until tomorrow then try upping the psi. The rear rim inflated no problem and didn't leak a bit. Adiůs Presta.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Soliciting advice, suggestions, criticism of older Super V upgrade plans-presta-no-collar.jpg  

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    Soliciting advice, suggestions, criticism of older Super V upgrade plans-front-rear.jpg  


  27. #27
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    Congrats on downgrading your valves. It looks good. Seriously.

    Agreed on the adapters don't work very well for seating tires. I pull the valve cores to seat the tires and use my floor pump. If that's not easy i just run 2 winds of rim tape. If they don't seat easily they'll probably burp later.

    Usually when air appears to be leaking out of the valve what's really happening is that the rim tape has shifted and air is escaping in to the internal cavity of the rim, and then out past the valve core. The spoke nipples seal the rest of the rim, so that's the path of least resistance. If it's actually leaking at the valve you can just drop the inflated tire, valve side down, a couple times and it will seal up. Once the valve is mounted and sealed the nut doesn't do much. The ones on my road bike tend to come loose and it doesn't matter until i need to mount a pump and push on the valve.
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  28. #28
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    I consider Presta valves to be the work of Satan.

  29. #29
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    I would have left that thing alone. Talk about a time machine.

    Sincerely, owner of a 1999 Super V that got turned into an Uber V in 2007 and is now shed wall art with a broken swingarm. Shouldn't have sold the stock one.

  30. #30
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    I thought about hanging it from the rafters but I really want to ride it!

    Sent the Super Fatty air/oil headshok to Mendon Cycle Smith yesterday for a rebuild. Also drilled out the forward frame shock mount tabs....I'm keeping the original swingarm and just extending the forward mounting location by 0.75" so I can fit the 6.5" Fox Float in place of the original 5.75" Fox Vanilla coil. Felt kind of bad drilling into the frame.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Soliciting advice, suggestions, criticism of older Super V upgrade plans-img_3469.jpg  


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    People get weird about valves.

    Ive never had a valve, of any make, not work just fine.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegill View Post
    I consider Presta valves to be the work of Satan.
    I've got shrader valved tires I almost guarantee are from the 1980's that have never needed to be re-filled. I can't go a single week on a presta tube without re-airing it up.
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  33. #33
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    Why would you want to go a week without checking your tire pressures? Or one ride even?

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    I've also been spoiled by tubed tires that keep pressure seemingly forever. I usually just use the squeeze test prior to a ride and if they feel a little soft I shoot some air in from my truck's compressor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Why would you want to go a week without checking your tire pressures? Or one ride even?
    Because tubes don't lose enough air to check them that often?

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Why would you want to go a week without checking your tire pressures? Or one ride even?
    Because some folks have similar experiences to this guy !! Looks like someone stole your name AND avatar and is having some fun with you !! Seriously though, I do give the tire a squeeze before a ride.


    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    People get weird about valves.
    Ive never had a valve, of any make, not work just fine.
    This other comment below has been my experience for the past 2 decades or so (presta or schrader) except my 'air up' is a few times in a few months.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegill View Post
    I've also been spoiled by tubed tires that keep pressure seemingly forever. I usually just use the squeeze test prior to a ride and if they feel a little soft I shoot some air in from my truck's compressor.
    In the Middle Ages, the biggest mistake was not putting on your armor because you were 'just going down to the corner.'

  37. #37
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    I suppose if you're satisfied with the way your bike rides by blasting some compressed air in there and squeezing your tire, have at it.

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    I just keeping thinking... why????

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    Why not????

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegill View Post
    Why not????
    Its a waste of money. If anything I would restore it to stock and keep as a memento if I had an emotional connection to it. But you've already modded it so... otherwise imo its a waste of money.

  41. #41
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    The funny thing about money is that it's a matter of perspective. I think throwing a grand or so of my money into my bike is worth it. If I'm out here soliciting donations instead of advice, suggestions, or criticism then that's another thing.

    I had over $5,000 into my old Mountain Cycle San Andreas. Maybe $2,500 or so into my old Delta V. And that was long ago when I was young and that was REAL money. If I want to get a state of the art modern 29" full suspension then I'm looking at $5,000-6,000 easy. That's real money for sure. So throwing a few bucks here & there at my toy in the garage is no big deal. Plus I enjoy working on it (except for these new tubeless tires!)..

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegill View Post
    The funny thing about money is that it's a matter of perspective. I think throwing a grand or so of my money into my bike is worth it. If I'm out here soliciting donations instead of advice, suggestions, or criticism then that's another thing.

    I had over $5,000 into my old Mountain Cycle San Andreas. Maybe $2,500 or so into my old Delta V. And that was long ago when I was young and that was REAL money. If I want to get a state of the art modern 29" full suspension then I'm looking at $5,000-6,000 easy. That's real money for sure. So throwing a few bucks here & there at my toy in the garage is no big deal. Plus I enjoy working on it (except for these new tubeless tires!)..
    You don't have to justify how you spend your money to me or anyone else. You asked me and I answered. As I wrote, I'd only throw money at it if I had an emotional connection to it otherwise, I'd cut my losses.

  43. #43
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    They're only a waste of money when you don't ride them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zowie View Post
    They're only a waste of money when you don't ride them.
    Agreed!


    For better or worse those old FS bikes are a totally different riding experience than anything that came later, and the superV is a great example of the breed. I think they're fun, and some hop-up parts to make them feel not-shitty helps show off their personality. It's like a restomod MG Midget, but way cheaper. I don't want to own it (now that it has shrader valves ), but i'd love to take it out on some non-technical rolling singletrack. Cool bike.

    All that said, if i was in OPs situation i'd opt for a 3-4k alloy 140mm trailbike. Maybe used cuz he's pretty savvy. The new stuff is so much safer and more comfortable. Midget vs cayman.
    "Things that are complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple."
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    Agreed!
    but i'd love to take it out on some non-technical rolling singletrack.
    LOL. I rode my Super V on plenty of technical terrain back in the day. The Uber V build wasn't bad either.

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    Wow... that is one ugly baby

  47. #47
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    glad to hear that you can do tubeless with Schrader...I also hate Presta valves...one of the big things that has kept me from trying tubeless on my Krampus....that, and I really don't feel like I need to. Same as you, I have rarely had any problems with tubes, in 40+ years of riding....BMX, bike courier, and MTB...

    now that I said that, I will blow both tomorrow...
    " ...the moonlit swamp Krampus is a king among bikes." - geraldooka

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  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryguy79 View Post
    LOL. I rode my Super V on plenty of technical terrain back in the day. The Uber V build wasn't bad either.
    ...And the model T was the most popular vehicle of its day, and they're still fun to cruise around in. Nobody takes them to the track though.
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    Thatís funny. The differences between a ďmodernĒ bicycle and a 20 year old bicycle are minute. The difference between an early automobile and a modern automobile are huge, especially if youíre talking about tracking a car.

    I laugh when I see people talking about bikes that are more than just a few years old as if they are some ancient relic that can only go down the sidewalk at 10 mph. People have been doing this shit for decades, youíre not some kind of pioneer breaking new ground on your shiny new bike.

    In the next X years when people are riding self-leveling, all-electric, anti-gravity suspension superbikes they will be laughing at you on your 2018 $6,000 29íer relic. Thatís just the way it goes.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegill View Post
    Thatís funny. The differences between a ďmodernĒ bicycle and a 20 year old bicycle are minute. The difference between an early automobile and a modern automobile are huge, especially if youíre talking about tracking a car.
    90% of suspension MTB development happened since the super V ceased production, same as the model T. It's not uncommon to see folks re-engage with the sport and assume no development has happened because the bikes look superficially the same. A test ride reaffirms the opinion because of rose colored memories and newer designs need to be ridden in a different way to work right. Newer models have a 4-6" longer wheelbase and are designed with suspension/frame geometry/brakes that extra stability disappear under you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegill View Post
    In the next X years when people are riding self-leveling, all-electric, anti-gravity suspension superbikes they will be laughing at you on your 2018 $6,000 29íer relic. Thatís just the way it goes.
    I don't mean to argue with you or insult your project, just want you to have the best mtb experience possible. My main mtb is a 2x9 26'er hardtail; people are already laughing at my relic, even if it's modern where it counts.


    Have fun!
    "Things that are complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple."
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  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post

    I don't mean to argue with you or insult your project, just want you to have the best mtb experience possible. My main mtb is a 2x9 26'er hardtail; people are already laughing at my relic, even if it's modern where it counts.
    I thought no one made a modern 26" HT frame.

    650BSing it?

  52. #52
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    When you get those new Stans you'll have 25mm inner rims. And that means you can run lower pressure without getting foldover. So experiment until you start to get rim hits. Bigger footprint means more traction. Flows have 29. Even better.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zowie View Post
    I thought no one made a modern 26" HT frame.

    650BSing it?
    I build bike frames as a hobby.
    "Things that are complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple."
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  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    I build bike frames as a hobby.
    Made any you don't like because their WB is a hair too short?

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zowie View Post
    Made any you don't like because their WB is a hair too short?
    No, there's no reason for me to build short wheelbase frames since there are so many production models to choose from. There's a range of length i like and i keep it in that region. Is there a point you're trying to make?
    "Things that are complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple."
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  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    No, there's no reason to build short wheelbase frames since so many production model were made to choose from. is there a point you're trying to make?
    No, there's no reason to make a point since so many are already archived here.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by noapathy View Post
    Keep the current bike for tow duty if you want, but don't dump any more into that thing.
    Agree. Bikes have come a long way since then.

  58. #58
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    @bluegill- saw you live in Scottsdale. I've ridden all over that region. McDowell trails were fun and flowy, goat camp trail in the white tanks was the hardest XC/AM trail i've ever ridden, south mountain was FKN BLAST, and the AZT nearby was so crappy it sent me packing to go explore nevada. You live in a wonderful place for mtb, and any mtb can be the perfect tool if you're hitting the right trail system. You're lucky!

    I spent a month out there riding every day... i'm surprised you can get away with tubes. Some places it feels like you're riding a path through a cactus garden.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zowie View Post
    No, there's no reason to make a point since so many are already archived here.
    That's been true since before we joined this site.
    "Things that are complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple."
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  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    I suppose if you're satisfied with the way your bike rides by blasting some compressed air in there and squeezing your tire, have at it.
    Why Thank you.


    I've not been "having at it" for long but coming up on a bit over a year now. I find those plus tires are a bit easier to 'gauge' by squeeze with low 20's or 17 to 18 psi, than my old bikes/tires. Especially so after I got experienced with a better analog dial type gauge that reads to a max of 40. Seems very accurate and consistent and helped me learn I can trust the squeeze method within reason.

    I didn't mean to be interpreted as adding air all the time (or even using a compressor on 20 psi tires) which is really been more to my point. No fuss no muss, keeping it simple, longer service intervals etc....
    There have been times I gauged them and tailored the psi to specific riding areas but as to compressed air, fiddling with the tires or needing to add from losses, it's that lack of need or special attention that keeps the bike busy.

    I'm not sure we don't think alike and I'm making some sense out of your two statements that sounded conflicting.
    On the one hand, you say;

    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Why would you want to go a week without checking your tire pressures? Or one ride even?
    I agree although my check is by squeeze since my history has more than proven I can trust in my tires holding pressure. Likely, the same trust you have in valves and mention here;

    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    People get weird about valves.
    Ive never had a valve, of any make, not work just fine.
    The conflict to me was your expressed trust in valves, yet checking the tires all the time with a gauge.
    It sounds like you want that trust but maybe aren't quite there yet or the valves hold the pressure consistently but the tires may not offer the same confidence.
    In the Middle Ages, the biggest mistake was not putting on your armor because you were 'just going down to the corner.'

  60. #60
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    I geeked out this morning and compared my 1998 Super V geometry to a modern full suspension. I chose the 2017 Santa Cruz Bronson because I'm considering a used 2017 Bronson (aluminum...frame, fork, and rear shock only) listed locally on Craigslist.

    I'll attach my spreadsheet as a jpg file.

    All my Super V measurements are with the bike in a static upright position with tires on the ground, no rider, no weight on suspension other than bike's own weight. Still has the OEM Fox Vanilla 5.75" rear shock and has the OEM 60mm Headshok P-Bone elastomer front shock.

    I calculated the differences (in both millimeters and inches) between my XLarge Super V and the Bronson in XLarge, Large, and Medium sizes. An online bike shop's sizing program put me on a Medium size 2018 Bronson frame based on my height of 5'10" and 33" inseam. If I bought a Bronson, I'd like to test ride a Large and a Medium but my initial thought is I'd go with a large size. I've always preferred slightly larger vs. smaller frame sizes.

    Let me know your take on the differences in geometry. The differences were more than I thought they'd be so I stand corrected on some of my previous statements.

    The really noteworthy differences I see are:

    Wheelbase....7" more on the Santa Cruz XL vs. my Super V and still 5.67" more on the Santa Cruz Large vs. my Super V. That's a huge difference!

    Effective Top Tube length is much greater on the Bronson. As a percentage difference, the Bronson XL top tube is 22.8% longer than my Super V. I think that's the greatest percentage difference on this spreadsheet.

    Reach & Stack are both appreciable differences.

    Of course my ancient straight-up head tube angle is a major difference to the relaxed 66.6 degrees on the Bronson.

    My Super V bottom bracket is nearly perfectly in-line with the axle plane...maybe 2 or 3mm higher max. The Bronson has a half-inch BB drop. BB height on the Bronson is only a quarter inch higher than the Super V.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Soliciting advice, suggestions, criticism of older Super V upgrade plans-old-vs-modern-geometry.jpg  


  61. #61
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    The head tube angle is the biggest difference, but the suspensions design is substantially improved on the Bronson. If you do try the Bronson, just give it some time. Coming from a super steep mid-90's hardtail or FS, you think the bronson feels sluggish, but it will completely destroy the V on flats and downhill. You'll lose some of that precise steering on the uphills, but overall it's hard to make an apples to apples between the 2 because they really excel at different things. Also, I didn't see your height, but I'm 5'10" and prefer a medium in any SC bike I've ridden.
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    Whoa, that is a big jump to a Bronson, which is a meaty AM enduro beast.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegill View Post
    I geeked out this morning

    Wheelbase....7" more on the Santa Cruz XL vs. my Super V and still 5.67" more on the Santa Cruz Large vs. my Super V. That's a huge difference!
    In simplest terms, this is it. All the other measurements are just showing how the bike has been tweaked to make 6" of additional wheelbase unequivocally better. You're a great candidate for a large, but all bikes are so much 'larger' that basically anything is gonna be a revelation. I don't see a reason to discuss the nuances of various modern bikes because they're all the same bike when you're comparing them to a super V. What's the difference between a 2017 corolla and civic when you're driving a 1972 pinto?

    A bronson is not a 'meaty enduro beast,' it's a nice versatile bike that will inspire confidence and be fun to ride everywhere but doubletrack and lift-served DH. It will favor faster/choppier singletrack over a 5010 or similar 130mm bike, but they're functionally the same tool for a different terrain. A bronson is a very safe purchase for any healthy adult interested in challenging himself riding singletrack.

    Shitty suspension ruins a bike. Alloy not so much. Buyer beware.

    BB drop isn't a very useful metric for a consumer because you don't know how it was sagged or what tires/wheels were used. Height isn't super reliable either because manufacturers lie for advertising, and shock behavior affects how you perceive BB height. Use it as a suggestion, not a fact.


    No need to rush to another bike. Go do some test rides and be aware that first impressions are interesting but meaningless.
    "Things that are complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple."
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  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    A bronson is not a 'meaty enduro beast,' it's a nice versatile bike that will inspire confidence and be fun to ride everywhere but doubletrack and lift-served DH. It will favor faster/choppier singletrack over a 5010 or similar 130mm bike, but they're functionally the same tool for a different terrain. A bronson is a very safe purchase for any healthy adult interested in challenging himself riding singletrack.


    Wasn't the Bronson one of the most popular Enduro bikes for years??

  65. #65
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    The Santa Cruz 5010 has caught my attention as well.

    I just think of the Bronson's 150mm front & rear travel (or hell, even the 130mm on the 5010) and I picture lying on a soft feather mattress....while bombing down some fun downhills I haven't been on in years.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesmokingman View Post


    Wasn't the Bronson one of the most popular Enduro bikes for years??
    Sure. It's a very versatile bike. It works well in a lot of applications (so long as your focus is technical singletrack), and often where it gives something up on one piece of trail it's better suited to another. Fairly typical of these midweight 130-150mm bikes with ~1180mm wheelbases and fairly linear shock progression... the bronson is just a good, early example of the breed.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegill View Post
    The Santa Cruz 5010 has caught my attention as well.

    I just think of the Bronson's 150mm front & rear travel (or hell, even the 130mm on the 5010) and I picture lying on a soft feather mattress....while bombing down some fun downhills I haven't been on in years.
    Go ride some bikes man. Ride friends' bikes even if they're not what you're interested in. Go check out a demo day and annoy the reps. Recalibrate your expectations. There's no hurry, worst thing that happens is you hang out with enthusiastic people and ride bikes. Isn't Pivot fairly local to you? They make sweet bikes. Go ride National on a mach 6. See what you think.


    last thought- you're obviously a smart guy, don't let that become a handicap. Seemingly insignificant differences in some seemingly unimportant measurement can have massive, far-ranging impacts on how a bike rides and handles. Like, a cheap version of a fork can be an incompetent mess while the top end (with the same name) will be very good, or a 20mm longer/shorter stem can completely ruin a bike. If you don't know what you're changing and what impact it will have... copy the stock build if you go frame-up. Conversely, as was mentioned WRT slx/xt brakes... sometimes it makes no difference at all.
    "Things that are complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple."
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    Good advice all around and I appreciate it.

    I'll inevitably end up with a new bike after all this.

    In the meantime I'm going to continue upgrades to my faithful Super V. Mendon Cycle Smith shipped my rebuilt Headshok back today, should have it in a week. Had some time to work on the Super V today and added a little bling...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Soliciting advice, suggestions, criticism of older Super V upgrade plans-fox-float-installed.jpg  


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    Finally making some progress on the old Super V. Took me and 2 guys at the LBS to get the left side cup out of the bottom bracket. Disc brakes are mounted and cables shortened. Dremel'd out the old rear brake cable guides on the frame to accommodate the continuous rear hydraulic line. Should hopefully have time tomorrow to install the rear derailleur, chain, and tune the shifting.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Soliciting advice, suggestions, criticism of older Super V upgrade plans-1-frame.jpg  

    Soliciting advice, suggestions, criticism of older Super V upgrade plans-1-xbb.jpg  

    Soliciting advice, suggestions, criticism of older Super V upgrade plans-2-11spd.jpg  

    Soliciting advice, suggestions, criticism of older Super V upgrade plans-3-img_4545.jpg  

    Soliciting advice, suggestions, criticism of older Super V upgrade plans-4-brake-line.jpg  

    Soliciting advice, suggestions, criticism of older Super V upgrade plans-5-upper1.jpg  

    Soliciting advice, suggestions, criticism of older Super V upgrade plans-6-upper2.jpg  

    Soliciting advice, suggestions, criticism of older Super V upgrade plans-7-upper3.jpg  

    Soliciting advice, suggestions, criticism of older Super V upgrade plans-8-upper4.jpg  

    Soliciting advice, suggestions, criticism of older Super V upgrade plans-9-lower2.jpg  


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    A rear shock lockout will make a huge difference. That frame is likely going to bob a good bit unless you set the air pressure super high. I would use it as a hardtail on the climbs and flats and then as a fs on the downs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thesmokingman View Post


    Wasn't the Bronson one of the most popular Enduro bikes for years??
    To someone who's been riding for years, this sounds funny. The Bronson only came out in 2013. I struggle to classify anything that young as being sought after or popular for "years". You could say that about the Stumpjumper in the trail bike category because it's actually been produced for "years".

    Just funny. Like listening to my 15y.o. talk about "when she was a kid", lol.

    Regarding the SV project... If you're into singletrack, you'll be disappointed. I know, I've done similar projects and kinda wish I hadn't. It's fun at the time and makes sense to some degree, but as an older 26'er hold-out... I'm convinced that the changes over the last even 10 years are pretty significant when in concert together.

    My latest was a 2005 AllMountain hardtail rebuild. I love that frame and have rebuilt it 6-7 times since I got it. I did a recent head to head against my Stache and the numbers really don't reflect the performance.

    Similar HTA within a degree, similarETT, CS within a few mm numbers and both running Hope hub'd boutique wheelsets and similar front suspension travel. Both setup as AllMountain hardtails.

    Hands down, my Stache will do everything better than my old 26'er. Even flat, twisty smooth singletrack where you'd think the 26 would excel. Looking back, I wish I'd not spent the money this last time rebuilding the oldie and kept it setup as it was. Could have put that money elsewhere. The main reason for the last oldie rebuild was to take all my 1x9 stuff, Elixir brakes, Hope DT wheelset and or them in my daughter's bike to pimp it out. Then I bought new stuff for mine.


    Anyhoo, just my opinion...I didn't feel it was a wasted effort the first 6x times, but this last time was one too many.

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    What are opinions for getting the right chain length? I have an 11-speed rear, 11-40T, and a single front 38T ring.

    I was planning on compressing the rear suspension fully, then putting chain on the large rear cog, bypassing the rear mech, around front ring, then adding an inch, or 2 links.

    My rear derailleur is the Shimano XT RD-M8000 11 speed rear derailleur (clutch, GS cage).

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegill View Post
    What are opinions for getting the right chain length?
    I'm sure there is a right way to do it but I just put the chain on the bike, around the biggest gears, then shorten it until it's about as tight as I'd want it to be. It's easier than you think because removing just one link is a big jump, it's a whole inch, so it's very obvious when it's too long or too short.

  73. #73
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    Me too

  74. #74
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    That's what I've always done too but I didn't know if there was any black magic to this new 11-speed clutch derailleur thingy. If in doubt I'll leave an extra link or two because it's easy to shorten it a bit.

  75. #75
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    Finally had the rebuilt Super V out on a trail this morning for a quick shakedown run. It was brutalÖa few miles of constant climbing through rocky & sandy washes then a couple miles of downhill. Kicked my ass and reminded me of the kind of shape I am no longer in. Today is also the hottest day of the year so far and the irony was not lost on me. It was 102 at 9:00 when I started and 106 when I finished at 10:00. At least every ride from now on will be cooler.

    Everything worked surprisingly well, the wheels didnít fall off, and I managed to not eat a rock or cactus so I have that going for me. Shifting with the new XT 11-speed rear derailleur was flawless. So much different from the old XT technology. The 11-40T rear cassette range worked very well. I had laughed at a 40T rear ring but not anymore.

    The Fox Float rear shock was also a big difference compared to the pogo stick coil-over brick I had on there before. Set it on firm for the uphill and on medium then soft for the downhill. Air/oil front Headshok is smoother than the old elastomer Headshock but it will never overcome the fact that itís only a little over 3 inches of travel. I also realized that I have to increase the air pressure quite a bit.

    Hydraulic disk brakesÖ.what a huge difference! I kept locking up the wheels until I got used to it. I'm surprised I didn't Superman over the bars with the stopping power. 1-finger braking is amazing.

    Second half of the ride was all downhill and I actually started laughing while hauling ass & barely in control. Havenít enjoyed that experience on a bike in a long time. I figure I shed a good 6 pounds from this bike and itís so obvious on the tight, fast, esses along and down into & up out of the washes.

    Money well spent? Who knows and who cares. Itís piqued my interest and gotten me back in the saddle so Iíd have to say itís a net positive investment. Now if it would just cool down a bitÖ
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Soliciting advice, suggestions, criticism of older Super V upgrade plans-1b.jpg  

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  76. #76
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    While I was riding I was thinking that I need a laid-back seatpost. Then I realized that I mounted the seat clamps backwards. What a rookie.

  77. #77
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    Had a chance yesterday to get on some more trails near my house. It's still oppressively hot and humid from monsoon storms rolling through at night. This trail was also extremely rocky and just plain brutal. Everything is still working well but I feel like I could use some wider handlebars. These bars are only 605mm wide and of course they are the old 25.4mm diameter. Have to see what I can find...

    Soliciting advice, suggestions, criticism of older Super V upgrade plans-1bell.jpgSoliciting advice, suggestions, criticism of older Super V upgrade plans-2bell.jpg

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegill View Post
    These bars are only 605mm wide and of course they are the old 25.4mm diameter. Have to see what I can find...
    I have some profile design ultra FR bars on my commuter. 650mm wide, i think. These are a great option. With old geo you don't need as much width because the bikes are much lower trail- the steering is lighter so you don't need a big lever to push the front wheel around. You get your directional stability from the long stem.

    Looks like you live in the phoenix heat basin? Have you ridden south mountain yet? I took a huge desert mtb trip a couple years ago and totally loved that place. National trail is AWESOME.
    "Things that are complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple."
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  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    I have some profile design ultra FR bars on my commuter. 650mm wide, i think. These are a great option. With old geo you don't need as much width because the bikes are much lower trail- the steering is lighter so you don't need a big lever to push the front wheel around. You get your directional stability from the long stem.

    Looks like you live in the phoenix heat basin? Have you ridden south mountain yet? I took a huge desert mtb trip a couple years ago and totally loved that place. National trail is AWESOME.
    Interesting observations about geometry, stem length, and handlebar width. I was also thinking about shortening my stem a bit. I have five 25.4mm clamp diameter Cannondale Headshok stems right now, a couple leftover from my old Delta V full suspension, one that came with my Super V, and 2 more that I've picked up as I dial in my stem length and angle. Lengths include a huge 170mm/20 degree (original Delta V), 140mm/5 degree, & two 130mm/20 degrees (one from the 90's & one relatively new). I currently have a 120mm length & 5 degree up-angle. I think the angle is perfect but the length is still a bit long. I think I'll buy a 90 or 100mm length and give it a try...bonus will be that I can get it in 31.8mm clamp size and then I can find some wider bars. I figure I'll find bars in the 700-725mm range and cut them down as needed after some test runs. I realize that I don't want to go too short on stem with my very steep head tube angle (about 71-72 degrees). I figure the steering will get all jittery and I'll be all over the place.

    I am indeed living in the Phoenix outdoor sauna. This time of year is punishing but the rest of the year is sweet. I can't wait to ride on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon in the winter when it's sunny and 75 degrees. The last time I rode South Mountain the year started with a 19! I remember National Trail and dozens of off-shoots. South Mtn is fun but it can get really crowded with bikes, hikers, dogs, etc. Nothing like having to dive off the trail into big round boulders because some dipshit let their chihuahua rat run off leash.

  80. #80
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    You can always jump on ebay and get a few lengths, literally you can find stems for like $7 - $10 these days. On one of my older bikes, I went down to 50mm with a roughly 700mm bar, and even on the older geometry bike, I like it a lot more. You don't lose a ton of leverage climbing and descending is infinitely better with just ~2 inches.
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  81. #81
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    Unfortunately I'm limited to the Cannondale headshok proprietary stem (1.56" steerer diameter). I'm pretty sure the shortest they ever manufactured is 80mm. I've found a few online listings for 80, 90, 100, 110, etc. mm lengths and 31.8mm clamp diameter for about $50-$60 bucks each. The older 25.4mm clamp diameter ones are really cheap. I found my current 120mm headshok stem for $8. The other option is to mill out a 1.5" stem to fit 1.56" or cut down & re-weld a longer stem. Not sure I need to go that far. A 90mm would be a reduction of 1.18" from current and an 80mm would be a reduction of 1.57". I'll go for a ride and try to imagine the reduction and then wing it.

    I'm at or near the end of my spend on this old bike. I've already been shopping new frames at the local bike shops. I was big on Santa Cruz until I realized they are outsourced to China & Taiwan for carbon & aluminum. Then I got excited about Intense which is basically Santa Cruz's VPP but made in the USA. Then I dug deeper and see that Intense manufacturing is all moved over to China/Taiwan. I'm still looking at Foes...the Trail Mix 29" front and 27.5" rear is interesting. I still like the Intense Spider 27.5" though even though they sold out....the LBS has a "new" 2017 Spider 275C carbon frame in my size (medium) that has some scuffs from storage. I'll see how low they'll go on a cash purchase.

  82. #82
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    Shoot, sorry completely forgot about the diameter issue.
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  83. #83
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    Spaced my grips out to 700mm on my 605mm bar. The grips are bolt-ons with solid cores so I could take a quick ride around the neighborhood to see the difference. And man, what a difference, so much more comfortable. I made marks on top of my stem to show how far in 100, 90, and 80mm stems would be. Hard to say but 80 may be too short, but scew it, Iíll buy one and try it. I really like the concept of shorter stem bringing my weight back off the front overhang on technical steep descents. Iíve been over the bars enough to know to avoid it.

  84. #84
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    Picked up the 80mm/5 degree rise Headshok stem with a 31.8mm clamp diameter. Also picked up a Renthal Fatbar Light Carbon bar in 740mm width.

    Soliciting advice, suggestions, criticism of older Super V upgrade plans-1.jpgSoliciting advice, suggestions, criticism of older Super V upgrade plans-2.jpg

    Had a chance to ride a trail this morning. First half was a few miles of chunky climbing, as usual. I immediately noticed that I was having a hard time keeping the front tire on the ground. Had to adjust for the shorter stem and shift my weight a bit forward. Rear tire was spinning out quite a bit, thought it was from my weight transfer but then when loading the bike in my truck I realized that I stupidly left the rear tire rock hard. I shot some air in it before I left and forgot to adjust it.

    On the downhill second half though...it felt great. So much more planted on the bike without that sickening feeling that you're about to go over. I rode off some big rocks that I would have avoided before.

    The increased width was great too but I found my hands kept squeezing back inward on the grips. I guess my shoulders will have to get used to the wider grip. Definitely felt more stable and my stance on the bike feels better. With the new stem & bars (40mm rise bars) I'm about 2-2.5cm higher now at the grips than before. Figured I could flip the stem to a 5 degree downward angle if the bars proved to be too much of a rise.

    Soliciting advice, suggestions, criticism of older Super V upgrade plans-front2.jpg

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegill View Post

    I'm at or near the end of my spend on this old bike. I've already been shopping new frames at the local bike shops. I was big on Santa Cruz until I realized they are outsourced to China & Taiwan for carbon & aluminum. Then I got excited about Intense which is basically Santa Cruz's VPP but made in the USA. Then I dug deeper and see that Intense manufacturing is all moved over to China/Taiwan. I'm still looking at Foes...the Trail Mix 29" front and 27.5" rear is interesting. I still like the Intense Spider 27.5" though even though they sold out....the LBS has a "new" 2017 Spider 275C carbon frame in my size (medium) that has some scuffs from storage. I'll see how low they'll go on a cash purchase.

    If built in the USA is important to you check out Guerrilla Gravity. They make their frames in Denver. Check them out at ridegg.com and on the manufacturer forums. I'm going to be on a trip out that way and am planning on stopping in at their shredquarters and checking them out.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daydreamer View Post
    If built in the USA is important to you check out Guerrilla Gravity. They make their frames in Denver. Check them out at ridegg.com and on the manufacturer forums. I'm going to be on a trip out that way and am planning on stopping in at their shredquarters and checking them out.
    I have been checking out GG. Very cool stuff for sure!

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