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  1. #1
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    First Post and 1x8 Conversion Questions

    For starters, I have a 2004 Cannondale F300. Its my first MTB and I've started to make it mine. Installed a RaceFace bar and stem, and some Chester pedals. Love it so far. While its in the shop getting some much needed work done to it, I've started to look into possibly doing a 3x8 to 1x8 drive train conversion. I have never shifted away from the middle chain ring, and there aren't a lot of hills where I ride, so it makes sense to simplify it a bit. I did a lot of research already, so I'm more or less asking for clarification as to whether or not the components I've chosen will work or not.
    I've found out that a 8 speed NW chain ring is'nt going to happen, so I've decided to use a RaceFace 9 speed 32 tooth NW ring with a 9 speed KMC chain. I understand that a 9 speed chain should work on an 8 speed cassette, correct? To prevent chain drops, Ill be using a OneUp components BB mounted Chain guide. Powering all of this will be a RaceFace Chester Crankset with an X-Type BB.
    So does this sound like a good plan?

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    I can't comment on the chain/cassette fitment, but that seems like it should work otherwise.

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    Since you are using a guide, you don't necessarily need a narrow wide chainring. Instead, you could run a "single speed" chainring that doesn't have shifting ramps. That would work with an 8 speed chain. Might even be a little cheaper too. I'd go with a Surly stainless chainring and SRAM 8 speed chain.

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    You can use a 11s NW chainring with an 8 speed chain.

    You can actually use 11s front chainrings with any chain. You can use 10s chainrings with any chain except 11s, 9s chainrings with any chain except 10 and 11s.

    No need for a chainguide... but id seriously consider skipping doing all that, and going straight to 1x11. Its so, so much better.

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    Didnt think of that! Makes sense, why waste money on a 9 speed chain? The rings are about the same cost, so Id be saving myself on the chain. Especially since the shop is putting a new Shimano HG 8 speed chain on it right now.

    My only question left is, will the BB mount chain guide fit with the RaceFace X-type BB? The way I understand it, is it fits between the bike frame and the BB lock ring, correct?

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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    You can use a 11s NW chainring with an 8 speed chain.

    You can actually use 11s front chainrings with any chain. You can use 10s chainrings with any chain except 11s, 9s chainrings with any chain except 10 and 11s.

    No need for a chainguide... but id seriously consider skipping doing all that, and going straight to 1x11. Its so, so much better.
    I dont really think my frame would allow an 11 speed cassette. Sounds great, but Ive gotta work with what Ive got. I think I may follow Thor29's advice and just run a normal chainring with the guide. Seems pretty failsafe.

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    Why bother with the chain guide? Leave the front derailleur with no shifter attached in place to act as a chain guide. Simple and cheap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by F300Ridr View Post
    I dont really think my frame would allow an 11 speed cassette. Sounds great, but Ive gotta work with what Ive got. I think I may follow Thor29's advice and just run a normal chainring with the guide. Seems pretty failsafe.
    If your hub fits an 8 speed cassette then it fits an 11 or even a 12spd mountain cassette.
    But to be honest I wouldn't do it on that bike (no offense).

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    Quote Originally Posted by HollyBoni View Post
    If your hub fits an 8 speed cassette then it fits an 11 or even a 12spd mountain cassette.
    But to be honest I wouldn't do it on that bike (no offense).
    Oh I toatally agree, converting to a 10 speed is more than I wanna do right now. And I plan on riding this bike for awhile, not forever though. Someday Ill upgrade to something more along those lines. 8 speeds is plenty good enough for my local trails.

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    What's the one up guide going to cost? You might be surprised just how cheap 1x10 can be had. To give you an example of prices you can find 10 speed shifters for 20 bucks, cassettes for 30 to 50, mechs for under 50. Other than the shifter these are all consumable parts. You'll get more life out of a 10 speed cassette and mech so in the end you're really not spending more. I could never get an 8 speed mech to last. Once you factor in needing to replace your 8 speed cassette and mech earlier than 10 speed you'll probably save money going 1x10 now. Don't think of 1x10 as some expensive upgrade because it's not. Think of it as a durability upgrade for cheap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slimat99 View Post
    What's the one up guide going to cost? You might be surprised just how cheap 1x10 can be had. To give you an example of prices you can find 10 speed shifters for 20 bucks, cassettes for 30 to 50, mechs for under 50. Other than the shifter these are all consumable parts. You'll get more life out of a 10 speed cassette and mech so in the end you're really not spending more. I could never get an 8 speed mech to last. Once you factor in needing to replace your 8 speed cassette and mech earlier than 10 speed you'll probably save money going 1x10 now. Don't think of 1x10 as some expensive upgrade because it's not. Think of it as a durability upgrade for cheap.
    It is something I may consider in the future, but the bike is in the shop getting a brand new 8s cassette and chain installed as I type this so it would be asinine to turn around and tear all my new parts off right away. Im a college kid with a few expensive hobbies so I cant drop a 10 speed drivetrain in right now. The 1x8s drivetrain should work for my purposes.

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    I think you need to be careful to not spend too much $$ on an old bike. I would just remove the outer rings from your current crank, like pictured above leave the front der as a guide, and you're done. If the front isn't shifting by itself (same thing as falling off if you had 1x) it's probably not going to fall off if you remove the small&big rings.

    However; I ride a 26er as my primary training bike, and I use my big ring a lot on the roads to and from the trails; on my 29ers I never need bigger than a 32 front, I only miss bigger gears a little on road descents.
    If you are a not at your peak fitness at the moment, and building fitness and speed, you may end up wanting that big ring before too long, plus you're not riding with your chain twisted from the middle to the far right all the time.
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    I personally think that 90% of bikes sold, especially entry-level, are over-geared with 2x or 3x, making them more confusing and heavier for entry-level users. 1x everywhere would be terrific.

    A dirt cheap option is to remove the front derailleur and get a Dog Fang chain catcher off eBay for 5 bucks. Keep the 3 rings on up front and use the big ring as a chain catcher on the other side. It works great for casual riding and until you can buy a Wolf Tooth narrow-wide ring.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimPacNW View Post
    I think you need to be careful to not spend too much $$ on an old bike. I would just remove the outer rings from your current crank, like pictured above leave the front der as a guide, and you're done. If the front isn't shifting by itself (same thing as falling off if you had 1x) it's probably not going to fall off if you remove the small&big rings.

    However; I ride a 26er as my primary training bike, and I use my big ring a lot on the roads to and from the trails; on my 29ers I never need bigger than a 32 front, I only miss bigger gears a little on road descents.
    If you are a not at your peak fitness at the moment, and building fitness and speed, you may end up wanting that big ring before too long, plus you're not riding with your chain twisted from the middle to the far right all the time.
    Why does he need to be careful about spending money on his bike? It's not like he's investing thousands into a high mileage car that has two wheels in the junkyard already. He's buying inexpensive consumables that every bike will need after regular use. Anyway, bikes aren't like cars, there's really no point where you need to cut your loses baring things like a cracked frame, or no aftermarket support. If a new bike is wanted but isn't in the budget I say spend whatever's necessary to stay on the trails, and make the bike more fun. The only way to not get screwed on resale is to buy at or below wholesale, sell and repeat every other year. Even then, it's tough to not get screwed. This is coming from an x shop guy that used to play that game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slimat99 View Post
    Why does he need to be careful about spending money on his bike? It's not like he's investing thousands into a high mileage car that has two wheels in the junkyard already. He's buying inexpensive consumables that every bike will need after regular use. Anyway, bikes aren't like cars, there's really no point where you need to cut your loses baring things like a cracked frame, or no aftermarket support. If a new bike is wanted but isn't in the budget I say spend whatever's necessary to stay on the trails, and make the bike more fun. The only way to not get screwed on resale is to buy at or below wholesale, sell and repeat every other year. Even then, it's tough to not get screwed. This is coming from an x shop guy that used to play that game.
    He said he's a college kid on a budget. It's fun to spend money on parts, I've been a college kid into mtn bikes too, you've got to keeps some budget for the stuff that breaks, and not blow all your budget on the shiny stuff. and if you put $80 handlebars on a $200 bike, your bike is now worth ___?
    It is a bit like a sports car; most guys who buy a sporty car and start 'modding' have no end goal in mind and end up spending a bunch of money, basically 'personalizing' a street car that they get tired of in a couple of years.
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    If staying 8 speed, just slap on a NW ring and you're done (maybe need some short chainring bolts too).

    In particular, I don't see the need to buy a new crankset just to go 1x.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimPacNW View Post
    He said he's a college kid on a budget. It's fun to spend money on parts, I've been a college kid into mtn bikes too, you've got to keeps some budget for the stuff that breaks, and not blow all your budget on the shiny stuff. and if you put $80 handlebars on a $200 bike, your bike is now worth ___?
    It is a bit like a sports car; most guys who buy a sporty car and start 'modding' have no end goal in mind and end up spending a bunch of money, basically 'personalizing' a street car that they get tired of in a couple of years.
    I fully realize I will never get what Im putting into this thing back. Ill probably never sell it for the reason. The frame is good, just a lot of the stuff on it is junk. I figure Ill just build it into what I want over time.

    You know, its kinda funny that I picked up this hobby to get away from spending money on vehicles. Its well known that those who mod will never, ever get what they put in back.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    If staying 8 speed, just slap on a NW ring and you're done (maybe need some short chainring bolts too).

    In particular, I don't see the need to buy a new crankset just to go 1x.
    ... unless the OP has a crankset with chainrings riveted in place or otherwise unremovable.

    FWIW, I am running a NW chainring on a 1x9 drivetrain with a non-clutch derailleur and the NW alone does not do a great job with chain retention. I'll probably throw the old front derailleur back on it because I may end up going back to 2x anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgltrak View Post
    ... unless the OP has a crankset with chainrings riveted in place or otherwise unremovable.
    I was assuming if the bike is worth keeping and upgrading, it was at least a higher spec than that, but yeah, that would do it.
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    You can do this pretty cheap is searching for on-line parts. I recently did 1X9 conversion on my 2012 Heckler...tranny was tired so I needed chain, cassette and cranks/chainrings anyway. I also replaced long cage rear der. Wasn't worth 1 extra gear to spring for 10X and new shifter.

    I went with all Shimano XT and spent about $230 on the following:
    -M770 11/34 Cassette
    -HG-93 9spd chain
    -M772 med cage rear der
    -Zee M640 10spd crankset (came with threaded BB)
    -RaceFace 30T N/W chainring

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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    If staying 8 speed, just slap on a NW ring and you're done (maybe need some short chainring bolts too).

    In particular, I don't see the need to buy a new crankset just to go 1x.
    NW rings are worthless without a clutch. All NW does is allow the chain to flop a little bit more than standard rings before derailing. With no clutch chain flop is greater than NW can cope with. Clutch and NW are designed to work together. If you don't have a clutch, there's no sense in running NW rings; however, you can have pretty good chain retention with just a clutch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slimat99 View Post
    NW rings are worthless without a clutch.
    I'd still think they're better in a 1x application than a ramped ring and probably a little easier to find than a dedicated SS ring. But yeah, agree on the clutch being...clutch.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slimat99 View Post
    NW rings are worthless without a clutch. All NW does is allow the chain to flop a little bit more than standard rings before derailing. With no clutch chain flop is greater than NW can cope with. Clutch and NW are designed to work together. If you don't have a clutch, there's no sense in running NW rings; however, you can have pretty good chain retention with just a clutch.
    This is my thought too. Sounds like a Surly 32t ring paired with a guide will do what I want it to. No clutch in the rear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sturge View Post
    You can do this pretty cheap is searching for on-line parts. I recently did 1X9 conversion on my 2012 Heckler...tranny was tired so I needed chain, cassette and cranks/chainrings anyway. I also replaced long cage rear der. Wasn't worth 1 extra gear to spring for 10X and new shifter.

    I went with all Shimano XT and spent about $230 on the following:
    -M770 11/34 Cassette
    -HG-93 9spd chain
    -M772 med cage rear der
    -Zee M640 10spd crankset (came with threaded BB)
    -RaceFace 30T N/W chainring

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    Looks good. When I go to do the swap, it will be at or under $200. Its getting a new 8s cassette and chain installed today so once the 3x crank goes away sometime this spring it will be all new minus the deore 8s der. Ill probably throw on a set of deore V brake levers since you can still get those on amazon, and look for a used deore xt 8 speed shifter. Whats on there now is some ooolllldddd alivio shifter/brake combos that are junk.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by sturge View Post
    You can do this pretty cheap is searching for on-line parts. I recently did 1X9 conversion on my 2012 Heckler...tranny was tired so I needed chain, cassette and cranks/chainrings anyway. I also replaced long cage rear der. Wasn't worth 1 extra gear to spring for 10X and new shifter.

    I went with all Shimano XT and spent about $230 on the following:
    -M770 11/34 Cassette
    -HG-93 9spd chain
    -M772 med cage rear der
    -Zee M640 10spd crankset (came with threaded BB)
    -RaceFace 30T N/W chainring

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    Aside from some obvious cosmetic wear, was there something wrong with the crank that was on the bike? What was the reason for changing the crank? How much would it have saved to go ahead and mount the new chainring on the old crank?

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    Quote Originally Posted by slimat99 View Post
    What's the one up guide going to cost? You might be surprised just how cheap 1x10 can be had. To give you an example of prices you can find 10 speed shifters for 20 bucks, cassettes for 30 to 50, mechs for under 50
    That's the route I'm going with a 3x8 conversion to 1x10. Living in a flat part of the country, after some experimenting determined that an 11-36 or 11-40 in back will work nicely so going with a Shimano Zee shifter/der combo (~$75 + $40 cassette). Not bad for an easy upgrade with new parts, with a little used part hunting it could be well less than that.

    In my case I also decided to upgrade the old square BB and crank after finding a take off Stylo 7k crankset and dub BB. That added some cost the original plan but for about $250 including the cost of the tools to do the work it's a completely modern drivetrain that's going to shave ~3 lbs off the bike when it's done.

  27. #27
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    TLDR; but 1x8 should work fine with just a Wolf Tooth ring. You could go even cheaper with a Dog Fang, middle ring of 3x, and using the big ring as a right-side guide (filing down the teeth for aesthetics).

    Personally I loved the old 8 speed GripShift and Microshift. They were rock solid. 32x11-32 will get you around almost everywhere.


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    I'm an old school bike guy, I own 3 26ers and the newest of the bunch is a 2001 Yeti. I did a lot more biking in the 90's/early 2000 and back then it was always the more gears the better. Nothing like having a 3 gear front and adding a rock ring to make your bike feel like a lead weight! As I got back in to biking again over the past few years I saw more and more people going 1x on the front. Seemed odd at first, but the more I thought about it, it made so much sense.. I was never out of my middle gear, so why carry all the extra weight that goes along with having 3 if I only use 1. I converted my Yeti first, it was already a 3x9, so i only had to convert the front. Used a Black Spire 32T ring with a rock guard to help keep the chain in place and protect the gear teeth, and lost the derailleur and shifter. It ended up being so much smoother, no more front shifter to hit by mistake and I lost a bunch of weight. As I rode more and more I realized 1 more gear would do me some good since I tackle some decent hills on my local trails, so i looked in to a x10 upgrade. I thought it was going to cost me a small fortune, but it really wasn't bad at all, I think I shelled out between $150-$200 for the cassette, derailleur, shifter, and chain and it was worth every cent!

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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by cnordt24 View Post
    I'm an old school bike guy, I own 3 26ers and the newest of the bunch is a 2001 Yeti. I did a lot more biking in the 90's/early 2000 and back then it was always the more gears the better. Nothing like having a 3 gear front and adding a rock ring to make your bike feel like a lead weight! As I got back in to biking again over the past few years I saw more and more people going 1x on the front. Seemed odd at first, but the more I thought about it, it made so much sense.. I was never out of my middle gear, so why carry all the extra weight that goes along with having 3 if I only use 1. I converted my Yeti first, it was already a 3x9, so i only had to convert the front. Used a Black Spire 32T ring with a rock guard to help keep the chain in place and protect the gear teeth, and lost the derailleur and shifter. It ended up being so much smoother, no more front shifter to hit by mistake and I lost a bunch of weight. As I rode more and more I realized 1 more gear would do me some good since I tackle some decent hills on my local trails, so i looked in to a x10 upgrade. I thought it was going to cost me a small fortune, but it really wasn't bad at all, I think I shelled out between $150-$200 for the cassette, derailleur, shifter, and chain and it was worth every cent!

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    I must be even more old school than you , because I'm still riding my 3x9 system, and can't even imagine riding anything else in NJ. When you convert to a 1x system you're losing the top end speed, and on NJ trails I usually ride in middle 32t ring or in the 44t ring on flats and downhills. I really never got the rationale for going 1x (maybe if you're a weightweenie), but hitting front derr shifter by mistake - I can't remember that ever happening, dropped chain - yes - but it never bothered me enough to sacrifice the range and the ratios of the 3x system. I've never had a problem shifting the front derailleur once it was adjusted correctly - and perhaps that is the main reason why so many folks decided that 3x wasn't worth the trouble - they could never adjust it. Yes 1x is simpler, but by going to that simpler system you will sacrifice the top end speed as well as some serious granny gear climbing capability. And there are climbs that I wouldn't be able to climb in the middle ring no matter how light my bike is.

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    I'm even older school! I'm using 3x7 right now, but I wanna switch to 1x7, but keep the big ring instead of the middle, because I rarely ride granny gears, and I want to keep my top end.
    As for the reason behind the rise of 1x, I think some of it has to do with droppers taking up real estate on the left side of the bar.
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    That is old school... I do ride a 2x8 road bike, but off road I'm sticking with 3x9. I do agree with you on the handlebar real estate, though with a dropper you can forget about saving weight - since dropper replaces the weight of the front derr. I'm still riding under 600mm flat bars with bar ends and gripshifters - so I truly have no space for any additional gizmos. One set of gripshifters I use dates back to 2002 and works as good as new. Still, I could not see myself giving up the 3 chainrings - I feel that it is that very feature that made the mountain bike the most versatile bike out there. 20 years ago I used to ride my Homegrown in Boston and always felt weird about being able to go faster than the fixie messenger guys... good old days.

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    One reason I need to overhaul the drivetrain is because the Rapidfires I put on in the 90's to replace the dreadful (to me) gripshift have died. Currently, I have access to around 9 of my 24 gears, and they're not the good ones. I figure that I can get enough acceleration on the one big ring and still keep my top end. A 93 Hardrock doesn't belong on rough trails anymore, it's time for greener, smoother pastures for my old steed.
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattiThundrrr View Post
    As for the reason behind the rise of 1x, I think some of it has to do with droppers taking up real estate on the left side of the bar.
    It didn't; it simply makes more sense in most applications.
    People have been doing 1x conversions for years and years before the dropper thing took off.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emax View Post
    Still, I could not see myself giving up the 3 chainrings - I feel that it is that very feature that made the mountain bike the most versatile bike out there. 20 years ago I used to ride my Homegrown in Boston and always felt weird about being able to go faster than the fixie messenger guys... good old days.
    Might makes sense if you're trying to ride pavement at speed, but really doesn't serve any purpose besides that. I can't think of any actual trails in the Boston area where you're going to do anything with a 42t-44t ring besides grind the shit out of it on rocks and make it completely useless in short order. Got a drawer full of them (and trashed Rock Rings) that tell me this is true.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Might makes sense if you're trying to ride pavement at speed, but really doesn't serve any purpose besides that. I can't think of any actual trails in the Boston area where you're going to do anything with a 42t-44t ring besides grind the shit out of it on rocks and make it completely useless in short order. Got a drawer full of them (and trashed Rock Rings) that tell me this is true.
    Bluehills and Wompatuck were the 2 spots where I got to use the full range of 3x... I've seen people ride 1x and siglespeed bikes on various trails yet that doesn't make them a better design - just better for the diesel riders who can ride offroad on a singlespeed. In truth, the rear derailleur is more problematic than the front, because it sticks out more, it's more susceptible to being bent, mashed, or broken then the front changer. When I broke my rear derailleur I was lucky enough to keep it on the bike, wrap it bungee cord and have a 3 speed bike, since I could still shift the front - I realize that was lucky but still with a 1x that would have been a singlespeed ride. 1x is a less versatile system than 3x, and I find it funny when people call it an upgrade.

  36. #36
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    I just did a 1x9 conversion on a 2003 Trek Liquid (stock non-clutched rear derailleur etc). I used a somewhat cheap 30T NW chainring (fifty fifty) and ordered 2 bashguards from BBG to form a bashwich that will hopefully prevent chain drops. I haven't yet shortened the chain or installed the bashwich, but on the initial 3-4 rides on rooty, rocky trails I've only had one chain drop thus far. I do wish I had a bit more climbing gearing, but hopefully that's solved with increasing my fitness somewhat. As for why, I had missing teeth on the big and middle rings, so a change was in order - and I really like the simplicity (and increased clearance). But it was also just simply doing the thing - I never replaced a chainring prior to this conversion.

    To the OP (if you're still around) or anyone else thinking about doing a 1x7 - 1x9 conversion - keep in mind that going from the middle gear (28T?) to a 32T chainring will be a somewhat substantial difference in terms gear ratios (particularly noticeable in climbing gearing).

    To those that don't think an old bike is worth upgrading, I think if it's done smartly and somewhat inexpensively it can be a great benefit - a better bike plus a HUGE learning experience. I picked up the Liquid and then learned I didn't know much about what to look for in a used bike - I'll probably end up putting as much $$ into it as I got it for (new rear wheel, front and rear suspension rebuilds, drive train changes, etc), but it's going to be a better-riding bike and I'm acquiring skills (and maybe some components) that will transfer to the next one (and the next one, and the next one...). Plus, if it gets you out there, that's all that really matters!

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    It's been 4 months of daily riding on my 1x conversion and couldn't be happier with it. I spent a fair amount of time carefully considering gearing and researching component choices. Made up an excel spreadsheet to easily compare gearing options with what I had. The only thing I would do differently is go with my second choice of cassette with a few more teeth on the low end but that's only for part of one trail I hadn't ridden while keeping track of what I needed for gearing. Other than that, the only thing I've lost with the conversion/upgrades is 3 lbs of bike weight

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emax View Post
    Bluehills and Wompatuck were the 2 spots where I got to use the full range of 3x...
    You were cranking 25+ mph on actual trails in those places?

    You are obviously a god. Run whatever you please.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    You were cranking 25+ mph on actual trails in those places?

    You are obviously a god. Run whatever you please.
    Thanks for the sarcasm... I get that articulating one's position can be a challenge, and thus a snarky remark is used to cut the discussion short, but come on, this is a forum where these things are supposed to be discussed, debated etc... that's why people come here.

    I wrote that I used the full range of 3x meaning the granny gear and the 42 or 44T - not sure why that is so unusual. Using 44T chainring on a downhill is a no-no? how about on the road getting to the trail? Why using a granny gear on a steep, techy uphill is something to cause sarcastic comments?

    I do see a lot of used 3x cranksets for sale on Ebay, and if you look at the chainring wear it's clear that all the chainrings were used (I'm not talking about the ground teeth either)... Having more gears with closer ratios is better for the rider's knees, so advocating 1x to everyone as an upgrade isn't really constructive without knowing where, or how they will be using their bikes.

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    You said you need the full range afforded by 3x, I accepted your statement and complimented you on your skill and fitness.

    Would you rather I told you that I don't believe you or that you don't know what you're doing instead? Those are pretty much the only 3 options I can think of.

    Road riding is different obviously. But I thought we were talking about trail riding here.
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    On a 26":

    1x8 using 30x11-42 give you 0.71 to 2.73

    3x8 using 'old school standard' gearing of 22-32-42 x 11-32 gives you 0.69 to 3.82

    Basically, you lose ~6mph at the top end @ 80rpm cadence, from a bit over 20mph to a bit under. Bottom end is a wash.
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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    On a 26":

    1x8 using 30x11-42 give you 0.71 to 2.73

    3x8 using 'old school standard' gearing of 22-32-42 x 11-32 gives you 0.69 to 3.82

    Basically, you lose ~6mph at the top end @ 80rpm cadence, from a bit over 20mph to a bit under. Bottom end is a wash.
    The universal nature of a mountain bike means that you can ride it everywhere and those who live close enough to the trail can ride their mountain bike on the road to get to the trail. In the above analysis you discount the ratios focusing on the range, but closer ratios make for a more efficient effort - especially on an 8 speed cassette the differences between cogs are much more pronounced.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emax View Post
    The universal nature of a mountain bike means that you can ride it everywhere and those who live close enough to the trail can ride their mountain bike on the road to get to the trail. In the above analysis you discount the ratios focusing on the range, but closer ratios make for a more efficient effort - especially on an 8 speed cassette the differences between cogs are much more pronounced.
    Actually, being too FAR from the trails is what makes you have to ride the road.
    Some of us don't have to do that, and the vast majority that could, don't bother.

    But yes, agreed, if you're riding a good amount of road and you are strong enough to consistently push your MTB along at 20+ mph while doing it (most aren't), a big ring makes sense.

    As far as ratios go, once you account for overlap and redundancy, you gain very, very little from a 2x vs a 1x. If it's just a preference, then it's preference and there's nothing wrong with that. Let's not pretend there's much in the way of actual gain for the majority of off-road riders though; there simply isn't.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Actually, being too FAR from the trails is what makes you have to ride the road.
    Some of us don't have to do that, and the vast majority that could, don't bother.

    But yes, agreed, if you're riding a good amount of road and you are strong enough to consistently push your MTB along at 20+ mph while doing it (most aren't), a big ring makes sense.

    As far as ratios go, once you account for overlap and redundancy, you gain very, very little from a 2x vs a 1x. If it's just a preference, then it's preference and there's nothing wrong with that. Let's not pretend there's much in the way of actual gain for the majority of off-road riders though; there simply isn't.
    When I'm pulling my kids on a gravel path I absolutely use the big ring, yet when I'm climbing a steep hill, I'm in a granny gear, and I'm not the only one who uses a mountain bike to do many things. Mountain bikes are not made just for the trails - that's the point I tried to make - it's one bike that can do it all, put slicks on to ride the road, knobbies for the trails, and why is that a bad thing? Similarly to the 26ers going away, the 3x is going away too, and I have yet to find a good argument for why that's a good thing.

    You may very well be right about it being a preference but this preference is killing off the 3x systems, and while you can go 1x with a triple crank, you can't go triple with a 1x crank.

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    3x dying off is a good thing because it makes a lot of people buy expensive new bikes. People will deny there's a conspiracy, and they're right: manufactured obsolescence isn't a secret.
    https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2...scence-of-tech

    "In various forms, from subtle to unsubtle, planned obsolescence still very much exists nowadays. From so-called contrived durability, where brittle parts give out, to having repairs cost more than replacement products, to aesthetic upgrades that frame older product versions as less stylish goods makers have no shortage of ruses to keep opening customers wallets."
    Life is the sieve through which my anarchy strains, resolving itself into works

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emax View Post
    Mountain bikes are not made just for the trails
    Actually, many are, and while owning a single bicycle that needs to serve every possible purpose seems to be your thing, it's not everyone's. Many of us use dedicated bicycles for specific purposes rather than compromise all over the place. Many others just don't have a need or desire to ride a bunch of road or pull kids around. Nothing wrong with it, you should run and ride what you like, but you're mistakenly projecting your preferences onto everyone else.

    I don't worry about being able to climb hills on my BMX bike, I don't worry snapping an XC or road bike in half using it for DH or DJ, I don't worry that my DH bike won't accept a kiddie trailer. I use my trail bike for trail riding and a 1x system works perfectly fine, and that seems to be the case for a majority of others too.

    Nobody is 'killing off' 3x systems. All the parts are widely available; nothing at all stopping you from slapping them on and running them all you want. I fail to see the issue.
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