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  1. #601
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emax View Post
    How many people do you see riding on a road bike in a foul weather? Not many on New Jersey roads

    I can imagine, I'd be scared $hitless to ride New Jersey roads in any weather


    Discs are better in any weather, people used to say the same about v-brakes. Face it, you're a curmudgeon.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  2. #602
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus View Post
    Sorry if I hurt your feelings, that's not my intent. But I'm entitled to my opinion and my opinion is that 26" wheels are drastically inferior to larger diameter wheels for *someone my size* and *where I ride* and *how I ride.*
    =sParty

    One thing I found as a surprise, really a bit of a shock, is that no one tells you the real diameter of a rim plus tire until you actually measure it yourself.

    26 standard (1.95) is really 25.0 to 25.2 inches

    27.5 standard (2.10) is really 27.0 to 27.2 inches

    29 standard is...I have not measured but I think 29 x 2.3 is actually 29 inches


    However, and this is key, 26" standard tires are not really mountain bike tires, at least not now in 2018. They were 20 years ago, but not now. If you go up at all in width to say, 2.10, or 2.25, or 2.40, the diameter suddenly jumps up an inch to 26.0 - 26.2, because the side casing is longer than on a 1.95, which is basically a relatively wide road bike tire with some extra tread on it.

    So what's the gist of the post? If you ride a 26 x 1.95 on a trail, as Sparticus says it is drastically inferior. Clearance is horrible, bumps are amplified, downhill steering is handicapped. But...there is a solution. 2.5, 2.7, 2.8, 3.0 sizes. 26 x 2.5 and 2.7, maybe 2.8 should be able to fit in your front fork (the back may only be able to take 2.1 to 2.5). You can also buy a 27.5" fork and then put in a 26 x 3.0 tire. The wider 26" tires are not drastically inferior. They may not be as good all-around as 27.5 tires but they are at least in the same range of performance. My 26 x 2.8 can handle chunkier/ruttier stuff significantly better than my 27.5 x 2.5. So if you still have a 26" bike you should really try out wider 2.5, 2.7, or 2.8 tires, you might be surprised what they can do on the trail.
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  3. #603
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneTrustMan View Post
    Like something between 80 to 130 dollar.
    I can find only stuff for like 250 up to 500 dollar.
    hub 50$ + Rim 40$ + spoke 40$ = 130$

    Very easy to mount a wheel yourself


    https://www.jensonusa.com/Shimano-SL...oost-Front-Hub
    https://www.jensonusa.com/Sun-Rhyno-ABT-Lite-Rim
    https://www.jensonusa.com/Sapim-Race...s-Steel-Spokes
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  4. #604
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    One thing I found as a surprise, really a bit of a shock, is that no one tells you the real diameter of a rim plus tire until you actually measure it yourself.
    A 26 with 4,8 tire is bigger in diameter than a 700 wheel with a 2.1 tire
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

  5. #605
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    650b was in very limited use at the time it was chosen for mtb use compared to 26 and 29 when they were. It is not even close.

    Early 26” mtbs were repurposed and modified balloon bikes and cruisers. THAT is why 26” was standard. Its not like the early 27.5 mtbs were repurposed randonneur bikes. They were purpose built mtbs, and the builders specifically chose 650b among a range of obscure sizes they could have chosen.

    And no, 650b did not first come from people stuffing 650b tires in their 26”. There were scant few 650b wheels and zero mtb tires to do it with. They did not have them to play with until 650b bikes were already in production.
    You're missing my point that 650b was an off the shelf size not one derived from R&D specifically for MTB.

    There is no dedicated MTB wheel size period. Only repurposed existing sizes from other bikes. 26" roots come from beach cruisers, 29" from road bikes, 650b from comfort bikes, fitness bikes, kids road bikes....

  6. #606
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    I can imagine, I'd be scared $hitless to ride New Jersey roads in any weather


    Discs are better in any weather, people used to say the same about v-brakes. Face it, you're a curmudgeon.
    Yeah...? you can't compare discs on the road bike to discs on a mountain bike - the conditions are vastly different, and discs are far superior to v-brakes in wet, muddy conditions that are much more commonly encountered on the trails. If the discs were so much better on road bikes - racers would have jumped on the opportunity to use them - but they don't and the truth is that the are not much of an improvement over calipers. And for a regular cyclist they are a nightmare to service....
    BTW... no need to call me names - can't come up with a reasonable argument for your position - then just don't write... if you want to use latest tech - go forth and prosper, but this is forum where we're all allowed to state our opinions freely...

  7. #607
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Discs are better in any weather
    Agreed.
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  8. #608
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emax View Post
    Yeah...? you can't compare discs on the road bike to discs on a mountain bike - the conditions are vastly different, and discs are far superior to v-brakes in wet, muddy conditions that are much more commonly encountered on the trails. If the discs were so much better on road bikes - racers would have jumped on the opportunity to use them - but they don't and the truth is that the are not much of an improvement over calipers. And for a regular cyclist they are a nightmare to service....
    BTW... no need to call me names - can't come up with a reasonable argument for your position - then just don't write... if you want to use latest tech - go forth and prosper, but this is forum where we're all allowed to state our opinions freely...
    You of course are entitled to your opinion and no name calling here. I must state that your comment on disc brakes being a nightmare for the regular rider is not really accurate. I bought the world’s worst hydraulic disc brakes in 1998 made by Hayes on a Trek 8900 that I just gave away after 20 years. As bad as they were in term of acting like a light switch, I rode that bike 20,000 miles and could not count one day where using the brakes or servicing them could be any where close to being a nightmare. I do recall one day where a few of us rode down Aliaska Ski Resort mountain in Alaska very well. Grass was waist deep and wet with moose standing in the thickest parts with only their Racks visible. My Friends with rim brakes were basically out of control the whole way down. My discs allowed me a very safe and controlled descent. Lastly, road racing hydraulic discs are still new to the racing scene where tradition often trumps improvement in equipment for sometime after introduction. Some riders were complaining about the safety of the discs with the possibility of a slicing injury. So ride what you like but the best hydraulic discs are way superior to rim brakes. When I was living in Germany, I rode the Alps with a 18 mile downhill and I was scared all the down on my rim brakes. Actually I was terrified way back in 1973. That was a road bike I bought in Paris. Rim brakes may weight a bit less but disc are way safer in some situations if not all. I hate slowing down but when you must, I want the best stopping power available, Road or Mountain applications. Safe Travels all!

  9. #609
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaklabl View Post
    I actually have this specific post bookmarked, as it may be my favorite on MTBR of all time.
    I ride in many places all the time and just never see riders acting that way. I ride expensive equipment and most folks I meet do not even know what they are looking at. Riding just seems like folks I do not know much if at all enjoying the sport. Most could care less what you ride. If you are having fun and being safe, the make or model of your bikes means nothing. I rode my 26 for 20 years and in the last several years rode it mostly to MSU football games while leaving the big dollar bikes safe at home. Often folks would yell as I rode by, nice Trek. Ride what you like and for the few that bitch, you know what to tell the losers.

  10. #610
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emax View Post
    If the discs were so much better on road bikes - racers would have jumped on the opportunity to use them - but they don't and the truth is that the are not much of an improvement over calipers. And for a regular cyclist they are a nightmare to service....


    Most world tour pros are using them now and within a few years disc brakes will be ubiquitous on road bikes. Most riers who use them seem to think they're better.

    Also disagree that they're a nightmare to service, different yes but not rocket science.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  11. #611
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emax View Post
    BTW... no need to call me names - can't come up with a reasonable argument for your position - then just don't write...



    Sorry I didn't mean to offend, only joking around. I'll tread more lightly in the future.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  12. #612
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Sorry I didn't mean to offend, only joking around. I'll tread more lightly in the future.
    RoadBikeReview.com and BikeForums.com have entire subforums dedicated to arguing about disc brakes on road bikes.

    It's a raw subject for a lot of folks.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  13. #613
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    RoadBikeReview.com and BikeForums.com have entire subforums dedicated to arguing about disc brakes on road bikes.

    It's a raw subject for a lot of folks.


    Weird. I don't see any argument, just something that's happening. Most see it as an improvement but some don't. Same as it ever was.

    There will be options for calipers for decades.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  14. #614
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Weird. I don't see any argument, just something that's happening. Most see it as an improvement but some don't. Same as it ever was.

    There will be options for calipers for decades.
    Go look around some road biking sites and you will see epic ones
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  15. #615
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    Go look around some road biking sites and you will see epic ones


    I believe that they're arguing but I just can't figure out why. Sort of like most of this thread.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  16. #616
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalon2018 View Post
    I must state that your comment on disc brakes being a nightmare for the regular rider is not really accurate. I bought the world’s worst hydraulic disc brakes in 1998 made by Hayes on a Trek 8900 that I just gave away after 20 years. As bad as they were in term of acting like a light switch, I rode that bike 20,000 miles and could not count one day where using the brakes or servicing them could be any where close to being a nightmare.
    The early Hayes cable actuated hydraulic brakes were weird (not sure if these are the ones you had but 1998 brings those to my mind)... I'm a happy user of Hope Mono Minis, and Hope Tech disc brakes, and before that I used Magura Marta's that leaked, and the totally worry free Avid BB7s, so this is not an argument about discs not being great for stopping. I've had much of issues with my Marta SL's and that is what I'm basing my comments on - I've had bent rotors, contaminated pads, master cylinder leaking, air in the line, inconsistent feel - left to right... granted most of these were due to a leaky cylinder. I've spent many hours trying bleed the system before I figured out that the master cylinder was leaking. On the other hand my Hopes have been worry free... So I get that you can travel down crazy downhills and need the discs - or not... but if I live in flat lands - do I need discs? Not really. But pretty soon that's all that will be on sale - whether we need it or not... and at that extra cost that we are willing to pay for it.

  17. #617
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emax View Post
    And for a regular cyclist they are a nightmare to service....
    I don't get this. As a newer cyclist, I have found disc way easier to service then V-brakes. Bleeding brakes is so easy versus the seeming constant need to adjust V-brakes.

  18. #618
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    Funny how everyone compares 20 year old 26 with modern/recent 650 or 700 bikes.

    I have a custom made Ti bike made to my specs ,26er ,modern geometry.
    Perfect. (see answer 571)
    Haven't try a 650/700 bike that comes close with handling and accelerating , climbing.

    BTW , I'm 6'2''
    Last edited by fokof; 11-19-2018 at 06:53 PM.
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

  19. #619
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hman0217 View Post
    Mass production and standardization of parts - the same thing we (myself included) lament - allow us AMAZING choices as consumers.
    Maybe but the problem is that the industry changes the standards every couple of years so as a consumer , I don't have the choice of buying new stuff.

    One example : I got a bike as a commuter 5 years ago , cool bike. The frame broke but it was lifetime warrantied, so now the new bikes are 700 wheeled , boost , thru axle , they couldn't just swap the parts on a new frame , so the company offered me instead a brand new complete bike.
    Very cool (in theory) but now I have a bike that I'm unable to put any of my tires , my wheels , my cassettes (11 sp) ..... And I have lots and lots of parts/tires.....
    All new standard that forces me to buy new stuff all over again.
    (I won't , I'll probably sell it)


    Luckily , the 26er standard have been there for so long that there's still a lots of parts available. No such luck with newest frames though....... got to go custom.
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

  20. #620
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    Because the 26" is paid for. I am faster on a 29er though.

  21. #621
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    This thread reminds me of this song....

    I'm Faster Than You...IFHT Films

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyTyjQbvylg

  22. #622
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    Depends on terrain and budget.

    Try to buy a nice used FS bike in newer wheel sizes for reasonable $$ ...

    I just got a K2 alum frame, carbon swing arm with air on both ends, Deore, Mavic, even a Ti seat post for $100 and a few days work to straighten out. I bought it to convert to a eMTB, but it was/is so nice, I just couldn't do it ... It's my new favorite trail cruiser

    I bough a Hardrock Sport (used) to convert. Added a Manitou R7 fork in place of that god awful RST fork and it's a sweet ride too. It'll be even better with a Thudbuster and a mid drive kit

    All in for both bikes (not including the conversion kit) I'm in for less than 1 large.

    If I spent that same budget on one MTB, I'd not reach my goals (MTB and eMTB) and I'd be one one bike for a long time, for everything ...

    Used 26'ers give me options and diversity and fun

  23. #623
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrocLuno View Post
    Try to buy a nice used FS bike in newer wheel sizes for reasonable $$ ...

    I just got a K2 alum frame, carbon swing arm with air on both ends, Deore, Mavic, even a Ti seat post for $100 and a few days work to straighten out. I bought it to convert to a eMTB, but it was/is so nice, I just couldn't do it ... It's my new favorite trail cruiser :
    Just my opinion, but personally i'd rather have lower end but newer components than old but higher end stuff.
    Yeah, Mavic and Deore sounds cool, but how old and how beat up are those components? That technology might have trickled down to the most basic stuff by now.
    Air on both ends is cool too, but how good do they work after all these years? Can you still service them and get parts for them? How much more abuse will that old carbon swing arm take?
    What about oldschool geometry? What about all the old standards and compatibility? If you want to buy something for the bike, do you have to hunt down old used parts?

    Old and cheap stuff has it's charm for sure, but I wouldn't say it's always an alternative to modern stuff. Again just my opinion of course and I probably sound a bit ranty. I worked in a shop where we mainly dealt with old and vintages bikes and i've had a horrible boss that thought every modern component sucked and for him a hydraulic brake was the devil itself. I've heard him say such bulls**t to clueless customers so many times.

  24. #624
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    Quote Originally Posted by HollyBoni View Post
    Just my opinion, but personally i'd rather have lower end but newer components than old but higher end stuff.
    Yeah, Mavic and Deore sounds cool, but how old and how beat up are those components? That technology might have trickled down to the most basic stuff by now.
    Air on both ends is cool too, but how good do they work after all these years? Can you still service them and get parts for them? How much more abuse will that old carbon swing arm take?
    What about oldschool geometry? What about all the old standards and compatibility? If you want to buy something for the bike, do you have to hunt down old used parts?

    Old and cheap stuff has it's charm for sure, but I wouldn't say it's always an alternative to modern stuff. Again just my opinion of course and I probably sound a bit ranty. I worked in a shop where we mainly dealt with old and vintages bikes and i've had a horrible boss that thought every modern component sucked and for him a hydraulic brake was the devil itself. I've heard him say such bulls**t to clueless customers so many times.
    It really depends on the components and bike. I bought a used 2012 Jedi with a 2011 boxxer with a charger damper, code brakes, ccdb air shock (2016), Stan's wheels, saint drive train, for about 1/3 what the equivalent setup would have cost. Just because it was 26. For DH bikes, if you not racing, the geometry had only changed incrementally. If I was buying today and buying new and money wasn't an issue, I would go 29 but just because that is where the industry is headed, not because I think it will make much difference in my riding.

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  25. #625
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    Agreed 100% If you are cruising and just exploring around; 26 will do most, if not all. It has for decades. If you want to race, or even just to maintain race pace, yeah, you'll have to go bigger or split sizes.

    26 semi fat on rear and bigger up front might work out best ... Been that way on MX and Enduro (18~21) motorcycles for a long time

  26. #626
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    I didn't mention the wheelsize on purpose, my comment was about all the other components. Probably off topic. Sorry!

  27. #627
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    Listen! 26 is good basis for conversion

    I get that. But, in my case all the parts were in decent/OK shape. Was owned by a Marin County resident who spent serious bank going weight weenie and then sold it on to one of his buds who let the air run down on the Marzocchi forks and decided it was broke ... So he sold it for $100

    I got it home and realized they had reversed the lower shock mounting plate so the rear was all jacked up. A new used Fox shock w/o piggy back boost chamber (the part that created the mounting dilemma) and a reset on the plate with new SS screws and JB Weld under (onto clean slightly abraded carbon/epoxy), and it was sorted.

    I emailed the PO owner requesting owners manuals or service guides, and the adapter for the air fork? He wrote back that he did not have any lit, AND did not even know you could pump up the forks ... Needless to say, there was not that much total time on the bike

    I'll buy rich posers cast-offs any day. I don't feel bad about it. And yes, you can get seal kits for the fork from Dr Marzocchi in the EU. Fox will recondition any shock sent in so what's to loose ... Carbon stress? Well it has to be ridden for that to be a thing ... Clueless owners are a good thing - for me

    Used parts all over eBay. Just gotta know what you are looking for, and try alternate listings and spellings

    Once you rescue an older MTB, it can be pressed into general trail riding service, passed on down the line to the next generation, get blinged out as a white-walled cruiser, or converted to an eBike.

    26" MTB's are the best choice for all these things as they are tough, have interchangeable parts, can be re-geared easy enough, usually have wide enough rear triangles to accept + tires, etc. Fork swaps are not that tough. Getting a whole package under 30 lbs is doable. Under 25 lbs is spendy, but also doable.

    How cush is it to ride along with your buds down the RxR right-of-way with no jarring while they are cussing big sharp rocks and rough ground ... I don't need a 29'er to do that - just decent suspension

    That K2 is now my favorite cruiser and play trail rider. The Hardrock Sport is becoming a MTB eBike. My old Trek is still going off road, just not as often now that the K2 is here

    Will I get a full carbon 29'er with suspension on both ends, maybe ... I have trails that could demand it (Mt Tamalpias & Mt St Helena). But I'm not convinced that it is needed. If the speed and the jumps are dialed back a bit, it's not a problem until you get to dbl Black Diamond stuff ...

  28. #628
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    I'm a shorter guy, so 26 "fits" me better, not to mention the bikes are paid for, adjusted/tuned to my liking, and I feel like I'm not missing out on anything. Not to mention I prefer to run my guitars through tube amps, and I drive a 6 speed manual car......guess I'm a Luddite, or something

  29. #629
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuelish View Post
    I'm a shorter guy, so 26 "fits" me better, not to mention the bikes are paid for, adjusted/tuned to my liking, and I feel like I'm not missing out on anything. Not to mention I prefer to run my guitars through tube amps, and I drive a 6 speed manual car......guess I'm a Luddite, or something
    hmmm...tube amps!! Love it! I record (bass) with tube amps, but use SS live...sort of like my old 26er is now my commuter/ rec trail bike, and my 29+ gets all beat up. Nothing like having multiple tools!!!
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  30. #630
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrocLuno View Post
    Agreed 100% If you are cruising and just exploring around; 26 will do most, if not all. It has for decades. If you want to race, or even just to maintain race pace, yeah, you'll have to go bigger or split sizes.

    26 semi fat on rear and bigger up front might work out best ... Been that way on MX and Enduro (18~21) motorcycles for a long time
    Actually I took a couple years off for finances and did a couple trail races this year with the ol 26" steed. This year on 2.23" tires and still got 3rd and 2nd in two of them. Lots of remarks about being old school, but in a tight technical maneuvering trail race I like the second nature of a well practiced setup.
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  31. #631
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    Quote Originally Posted by sXeXBMXer View Post
    hmmm...tube amps!! Love it! I record (bass) with tube amps, but use SS live...sort of like my old 26er is now my commuter/ rec trail bike, and my 29+ gets all beat up. Nothing like having multiple tools!!!
    Well I use both a tube pre amp and two mono block tube amp, drive two different cars with manuals and ride 29ers. They just roll over stuff better. I still rode my 1998 Trek 8900 til earlier this year I gave her away. Just saying...Yeti Yeti Yada Yada Yada

  32. #632
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    Still love my 26
    Last edited by fokof; 12-09-2018 at 08:27 PM.
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

  33. #633
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    Cross-post-warning

    I fell in love with my 2005 Komodo when I built it ground-up in 2006. It's began life as a freeride hardtail:
    Attachment 1228257

    Moved to an even more freeride hardtail:

    Attachment 1228258

    Then put on a 5lbs diet as a trail bike:

    Attachment 1228261

    Then to an all mountain shredder:

    Attachment 1228262

    To a rigid all mountain hardtail:

    Attachment 1228264

    Finally back to a 5" All Mountain hardtail:

    Attachment 1228265

    There wasn't any configuration that this bike couldn't do well.

    It's been pretty greasy with the freeze and thaw weather. It was finally cold enough to freeze the ground hard. Finally, I could get off the gravel and hit some singletrack again!

    I fired up the truck and headed out watching my house disappear through the back glass of my truck...eyeballing my 12 year old Komodo behind me as the exhaust billowed out...stark white into the crisp 20 degree air instantly seeming to freeze completely still, hovering over the road.

    The trail head is only 3 miles from my front door...I was there in minutes and on the bike only seconds later.

    10 minutes into my ride, tragedy strikes. My saddle falls like a tree in the forest...and I knew it was over.

    Attachment 1228269


    I rode back to the truck standing the entire way...knowing how much trouble I'm in...my nearly new 135mm rear Hope hub clacking at me reminding me of the planned obsolescence of 135mm dropouts on my 12 year old frame.

    My barely broken-in 150mm fork damper swishing as the suspension compresses and rebounds as if it was whispering to me..."my steerer is just 1 1/8" straight."

    My 26" tires crunching on the frozen ground crying out to me as if to say..."hey... it's been a good long run & 26 ain't dead yet...but good luck finding a suitable replacement!"

    Well my friends...the only thing that could have made this size large Kinesis-built freerided hardtail frame any better would have been offering it in a size XL for people my height, with a seat tube/top tube gusset on top instead of on bottom, and a slightly bigger reach, stack, & head tube.

    The very next day, I scored a brand new in box XL Mullet frame that meets all of those desires!!

    It's on the way and my old friend has already gone through organ donor surgery.


    Attachment 1228270


    26 ain't dead!!!

  34. #634
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    I just love my 26" wheels.

    Listen, I have had them all. 26 (more than I care to count), 27.5 (1), 29 (probably 5). At 5'8" and a 30" inseam, I am not especially tall - really not tall at all. I have also spent more than I care to think about on bicycles over the years than I care to think about, always chasing the next best thing and whatever riding discipline was en vogue.

    As it turns out, I REALLY like single speeding, and I like the way 26" wheels handle FOR ME. I am more financially secure than I have ever been in my life at this point, and can really afford t get myself whatever I'd like if the mood struck, but so far it hasn't. Every time I throw my leg over my bike and go for a ride, I catch myself wondering "well what if I got this thing" or "I wonder if that would make this better"...and then I run up on a rock-strewn, uphill pitch covered in baby heads that I am able to just pick my way up through and keep momentum as I crest it, and that usually silences the chatter. I can't even begin to imagine trying to do that stuff on a 29 or 29+, what with my short legs trying to turn over cranks and all...

    Sure, my rigid titanium SS 26"er is a beautiful pile of compromises and standards for the not too distant past, but I love it and it does whatever I ask it to without hesitation.

    One day, when I do have to get a new frame I will move to 27.5 for the parts availability, disc brakes, etc...but for now I'm pretty content with what I am rolling.

    26? What's the point??!!-img_3320.jpg

    26? What's the point??!!-img_3354.jpg
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  35. #635
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    Those chrome bars...nice...

    Had a set of old Profiles super similar; I miss those things.
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  36. #636
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    Rims were usually wider back in the 80s when 26s were the size to have - maybe part of the problems people have had with 26s in modern times has something to do with the ever narrowing of rims down to a typical 17/19mm.

  37. #637
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuelish View Post
    I drive a 6 speed manual car......guess I'm a Luddite, or something
    If you were a true Luddite, you'd drive a three on the tree!


  38. #638
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeyMK View Post
    Rims were usually wider back in the 80s when 26s were the size to have - maybe part of the problems people have had with 26s in modern times has something to do with the ever narrowing of rims down to a typical 17/19mm.
    Rims were wider (and steel) back in the 50s-60s too when a 28 x 1 1/2er was the size to have.

  39. #639
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaklabl View Post
    Sure, my rigid titanium SS 26"er is a beautiful pile of compromises and standards for the not too distant past, but I love it and it does whatever I ask it to without hesitation.
    I also have a 26er rigid that for a few years was my main ride, and still I'm on it a lot. My SS is a 650b though, for no particular reason than that's how the parts fell together. Your Titanium bike, wow, it looks really nice. I like the little touches of red that you have going on. Or is that purple, that I see centered around the crank-arm bolt? Your bike looks nice, that's for sure.

  40. #640
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Those chrome bars...nice...

    Had a set of old Profiles super similar; I miss those things.
    They are titanium, made by Defiance Frameworks in Homer, Alaska
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  41. #641
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonathanGennick View Post
    I also have a 26er rigid that for a few years was my main ride, and still I'm on it a lot. My SS is a 650b though, for no particular reason than that's how the parts fell together. Your Titanium bike, wow, it looks really nice. I like the little touches of red that you have going on. Or is that purple, that I see centered around the crank-arm bolt? Your bike looks nice, that's for sure.
    Purple on the crank. It has a bunch of ano colors, purple, orange, lime green...pretty much anything goes with ti
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  42. #642
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squeeze View Post
    If you were a true Luddite, you'd drive a three on the tree!

    True, but....fwiw, I have driven a couple....and I guess I would be riding a SS and playing acoustic guits (I do have a couple)….was just a swipe at Gibson's Henry J's quote about folks wanting "traditional" Gibsons as Luddites....I don't need no steenking robot tuners....LOL

  43. #643
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeyMK View Post
    Rims were usually wider back in the 80s when 26s were the size to have - maybe part of the problems people have had with 26s in modern times has something to do with the ever narrowing of rims down to a typical 17/19mm.
    hmm maybe in the mid 80s we had something close to 30mm wide rims IIRC (eg on my 85 Rocky Sherpa). and again late 90s the 27mm Sun Rhyno rims were std issue for north shore riding when I lived in Vancouver. By the early 90s the rims got narrower with the obsession with XC racing of the day, they were narrow as you say like road racing rims ish. Today all I see mainly is 32-45mm rims around here. My narrowest is 38mm, my widest is 45mm

  44. #644
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    Well, I did try to get the frame warrantied by Jamis...they said they actually still had a few of those 2005 Komodo FX frames in a size large in stock in grey...but the warranty on a Komodo and Kromo were only 5-years b/c of the rowdy nature of the bike.

    They did say that if I could find my 12-year-old receipt that they could give me a discount on a new frame.

    Either way...I should have been running an inch-or-so longer seatpost. Then it'd still be alive.

    They also said that the lifetime warranty on their other hardtails are only good for the lifetime of the frame material.

    "Lifetime warranty refers to the materials lifetime. Each material has a fatigue life, the failures you are seeing are the result of fatigue, not from any manufacturing defect. If you need more clarification on this, check out the support section of our website..." etc...

    So really...a lifetime warranty never means the lifetime of the components - duh
    May or may not mean the life time of the original owner...
    Could possibly not cover frame material failure...um...wha?

    I get it that they definitely cover defects in construction...but not covering failure of a material they choose to use in the construction of the product seems like a CYA loophole to me. If you don't trust the material to last a lifetime...don't give it a lifetime warranty.



    We offer a lifetime warranty!! (Unless you break it.)

    No big deal. I'm set either way. I really should consider trying to dig up my 12y.o. receipt and getting a good deal on a Dragonslayer 26+.

  45. #645
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaklabl View Post
    They are titanium, made by Defiance Frameworks in Homer, Alaska
    Thanks; I like.
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  46. #646
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    Quote Originally Posted by chelboed View Post
    No big deal. I'm set either way. I really should consider trying to dig up my 12y.o. receipt and getting a good deal on a Dragonslayer 26+.
    If that's the way they want to play it (*****ing out on a lifetime warranty) then just make up your own receipt from a now-defunct bike shop.

  47. #647
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    Thats the way all manufactures run a lifetime warranty...people read "Lifetime" and think it's their life, when in fact it what the manufacture thinks is a good lifespan for the frame and it's intended use... usually about 5 years.
    SOmetime a great company will honour a warranty outside their specified timeframe, others will be sucktastic on "lifetime".
    All the gear and no idea.

  48. #648
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    I have created receipts for small things in the past. If all they want is a receipt pretty sure you or someone you know can make that happen.
    Looking for a Medium Scott Scale frame, preferably a 2012 in 26.

  49. #649
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    Nah. I'm not gonna lie about it. I bought it from Jenson in 2006. I've got a replacement that will fit me even better coming in 2 days.

    I'm good.

  50. #650
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    Found this interesting. DH'r Neko Mulally, who likes to fiddle around with different designs, tried out 27.5 vs 29 several times on a test course and had this to say at the end;

    One thing that was reiterated as we debated the potential benefits of one wheel size versus the other was that it was really difficult to tell the difference between the two. Neko said, "I changed rear wheels almost every run and at times would forget which wheel I had on while I was riding. I would rail a turn and think, man this 27.5 wheel turns fast and then realize I had the 29er on." Using the stopwatch confirmed that it doesn't make much of a difference in the conditions he was testing in.
    'Things you own...begin owning you.'

  51. #651
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    I still have my 26er" dirt jump specific bike. My 4 other bikes are 27.5. I had converted my Mosso Scandium hardtail from 26 to 27.5 and I will never ever change it back. It's like night and day. Enjoy it significantly more now. So much so I converted my 2005 Santa Cruz Heckler to 27.5 and it is not going back to 26 as long as I own it. I sold all the 26" wheels. I know there's a lot of die hards but I feel the difference and I ride longer and more enjoyably than before. That's just my 2 cents and I've been riding a very long time. I won't go to 29 though. I've tried it but not for me.

  52. #652
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    Quote Originally Posted by gabe999 View Post
    I won't go to 29 though. I've tried it but not for me.
    What didn't you like about it?

  53. #653
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    I switched from a 1998 Trek 8900 to a Ti Hardtail last spring. That was a 26 to a 29 jump. Weird after riding 20 years in a 26-2.1. However in the course of my first two long rides, not only did the clown wheel feel go away, I discovered the biggie wheels go over roots and the like much better. Really surprised me. I have come to really enjoy the 29ers. Only draw back is the extra weight in both the wheels and rims. They are almost like sitting on top of the cycling world.

  54. #654
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalon2018 View Post
    I switched from a 1998 Trek 8900 to a Ti Hardtail last spring. That was a 26 to a 29 jump. Weird after riding 20 years in a 26-2.1. However in the course of my first two long rides, not only did the clown wheel feel go away, I discovered the biggie wheels go over roots and the like much better. Really surprised me. I have come to really enjoy the 29ers. Only draw back is the extra weight in both the wheels and rims. They are almost like sitting on top of the cycling world.
    Try a 29+
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  55. #655
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    I've tried, recently as well, all the high end, big name brands 29ers from Santa Cruz, Trek, Giant, Rocky Mountain, Specialized, etc.. I'm 5'7". I wouldn't say dislike them. The best of the lot was from Rocky Mountain which felt most like a 27.5". If I had to replace my hardtail 27.5 it would be with a RM 29er....if I could afford it. That said, I ride mostly trail/Enduro and like to jump and something about the take off and the landing on a 29er just was not inspiring, somewhat scary (maybe the feeling being up high and thought of keeping the large wheels straight) and the extra effort for me to make that launch feel impactful. I hope that makes sense. During xmas I vacationed in Phoenix and Sedona. Did the National Trail on a rented 29er. It was great since I didn't know what I was up against. I'd do it again on 27.5 for that more connected, bottoming out of my suspension feel...like I own that bike, man.

  56. #656
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    Quote Originally Posted by skankingbiker View Post
    Try a 29+
    I will do that. Waiting for my LBS to get me the new eTap AXS 46/33 w/10-28, and then change up the rubber. Thanks for the tip. I have a Fatty but never tried 29+.

  57. #657
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    The last 26er I ever owned tried to kill me and because of that, it was the last 26er I ever owned.
    life is... "All About Bikes"...

  58. #658
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalon2018 View Post
    I will do that. Waiting for my LBS to get me the new eTap AXS 46/33 w/10-28, and then change up the rubber. Thanks for the tip. I have a Fatty but never tried 29+.
    I have a pugsley converted to 29+ ...a "Krampug." It rolls over everything. Feels like riding a monster truck. Its fun, but a big difference from carving with a 26 HT
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  59. #659
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    I remember when I first really trail rode my 26" fatbike it was super amazing to ride anywhere at all and get away with all kinds of shenanigans that would be painful on a skinnier 2.0- 2.4 tire.

    That fatbike is not what I think of as a 26er.

    Plus tires are a bit like that too.

    It all depends on skill and where you ride, as well as the bike, of course.

    I think that current variety of tire widths are wonderful thing. Something for everyone.

    Narrower tires have to be placed better on the trail, and with more precision, with less suspension and smaller diameter.

    Old school 26" rigid bikes are more difficult to ride. But they can ride.

    Kind of like old school skiis.

    Once you learn them, you can turn them.

    Nothing wrong with the latest stuff. It's better.

    But like vintage for vintage sake, that's okay. Just get out of the way old man!

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  60. #660
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Burns View Post
    Old school 26" rigid bikes are more difficult to ride. But they can ride.

    Kind of like old school skiis.

    Once you learn them, you can turn them
    Funny. On ride with buds last fall on my oldie but goodie 26er. They say: "Wow, you are really carving on that thing; how are you able to keep up without a dropper or rear suspension"
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  61. #661
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Burns View Post
    I remember when I first really trail rode my 26" fatbike it was super amazing to ride anywhere at all and get away with all kinds of shenanigans that would be painful on a skinnier 2.0- 2.4 tire.

    That fatbike is not what I think of as a 26er.

    Plus tires are a bit like that too.

    It all depends on skill and where you ride, as well as the bike, of course.

    I think that current variety of tire widths are wonderful thing. Something for everyone.

    Narrower tires have to be placed better on the trail, and with more precision, with less suspension and smaller diameter.

    Old school 26" rigid bikes are more difficult to ride. But they can ride.

    Kind of like old school skiis.

    Once you learn them, you can turn them.

    Nothing wrong with the latest stuff. It's better.

    But like vintage for vintage sake, that's okay. Just get out of the way old man!

    Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk
    Some of the new stuff is better yes, but I must say the pressfit BB on my 650b "super enduro" bike sucks. The interntal cable routing sucks too. I also don't like the 148 rear spacing which has caused more damage to hangers and mechs than I've ever dealt with. I also find 27" wheels to be little more than a weight penalty. Geo improvemnts on the other hand are great but I was south of 66 10 years ago. IMO, head angles are the biggest improvement in bikes over the past 10 to 15 years. Seat tubes too but that's not as important to me. TT lenghths and BB height I find annyoing. I just size down now, or run stupid short stems that make the sterring twitchy.

  62. #662
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    "but I was south of 66 10 years ago."

    Head angle, or years old?

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  63. #663
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    Quote Originally Posted by slimat99 View Post
    Some of the new stuff is better yes, but I must say the pressfit BB on my 650b "super enduro" bike sucks. The interntal cable routing sucks too. I also don't like the 148 rear spacing which has caused more damage to hangers and mechs than I've ever dealt with. I also find 27" wheels to be little more than a weight penalty. Geo improvemnts on the other hand are great but I was south of 66 10 years ago. IMO, head angles are the biggest improvement in bikes over the past 10 to 15 years. Seat tubes too but that's not as important to me. TT lenghths and BB height I find annyoing. I just size down now, or run stupid short stems that make the sterring twitchy.
    Press fit bb are one of the worst ideas in bike design. One chap had a high dollar Trek and the press fit was making a ton of noise. Trek did nothing to fix so he went Ti with a threaded bb, the only way to go.

  64. #664
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Burns View Post
    "but I was south of 66 10 years ago."

    Head angle, or years old?

    Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk
    I also was running ~66 HTA 10 years ago; I've found I prefer something a little steeper for trail riding.
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  65. #665
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalon2018 View Post
    Press fit bb are one of the worst ideas in bike design. One chap had a high dollar Trek and the press fit was making a ton of noise. Trek did nothing to fix so he went Ti with a threaded bb, the only way to go.
    Why I won't buy a Stache
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  66. #666
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Burns View Post
    "but I was south of 66 10 years ago."

    Head angle, or years old?

    Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk
    Sometimes I do feel that old. I miss the old days honestly, and not because of wheel size. I miss what proper gnarly trails used to be like before the younger generation sanatized everything. I miss being able to ride social trails without strava getting them shut down. Most of you dumb kids don't even know everything is going to their heat map even when you're not tracking rides. Strava is responsilbe for so many trail colsures just so you kids can see who's best at straitlining corners. You kids started with better bikes than us old crusties, but we had local's trails that you kids would pee your little panties over.

  67. #667
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    Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! I needed a good laugh. Yea, we also wrecked a lot more back in the day and we rode with almost no protection. I have scars to prove it. Safe Travels All!

  68. #668
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    I'm getting a lot of grey hair now. I'm 59!

    Riding in the 80-90's there was no discussion about wheel size. All the tires were pizza cutters by today's standards.

    Tubeless was not even on the horizon.

    Just to survive a weekend of gnarly riding would entail all kinds McGuivery.

    The style of riding was heavily influenced by the exacting requirements in equipment preparation and riding technique.

    Low air pressure was dangerous back then. If I wanted to shred down something, in direct contrast to today, I'd air up the tires to resist pinch flats.

    Suspension was non-existent or ludicrous. Suspension was in the arms, legs, neck, back, and ass.

    Vision could be impaired by vibration. We'd take hits so hard that loose helmets and glasses could shift position on the cranium. Hilarious.

    It was important to know the trail very well, so as to anticipate the deep pockets, ruts, rills, ramps, and tombstones.

    Of course usually the action was not based upon recall.

    Typically, as it is today, you just took it on the fly, making adjustments in body positioning, and arm and leg piston retraction and extension, to enable the rigid 26" bike wheels to track over the obstacles, rather than conforming to the terrain as modern full suspension bikes do.

    There was a lot more on the line in those times.

    Hell yeah, as mentioned earlier, the trails were different, and so was the attitude. Things were as they were, so to speak. Trails weren't made for mountain bikes.

    We sort of arrived on the trails, maybe uninvited, yet certainly fulfilling an inevitable destiny.

    And we discovered trails that were overlooked by a few generations of hikers. We discovered game trails, log skids, gulches, washes, fall-lines, ridges, landslides; any place you could fit a bike, we'd be there.

    No Google Earth either.

    Some of that stuff was burly as ****!

    And the brakes were so lousy that many times the descents were unstoppable, and a rider was forced to a continuous involuntary commitment of unpredictable velocity.

    All this with your belly or chest on around saddle, thighs flared so they don't get too scratched up from the cantilever brakes at the extreme.

    Since there wasn't as much riding going on, the "trails" would often be filled with all kinds of loose materials such as of course rocks and sticks, moss chunks, clods, logs, hummocks of bunch grass, fern clumps, deep drifts of leaves, thorny vines, low branches, and occasional huge fallen logs, springs, bogs, mud pits, and quick sand.

    Almost all of the charismatic descents are extinct now due to the land management agency trail emasculating activity.

    We would celebrate sections of "buff" trail with hoots of joy to cover a quarter of a mile without resorting to trials riding.

    So yeah, trials was a thing.

    It was good enough to descend a trail without dabbing, let alone setting some sort of time record.

    If anything comes from this rant, it's that trials skills were a part of original 26" bike riding. Flow really didn't exist, per se, in my neck of the woods.

    I don't mind today's flow trails, but I do not seek them out.

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  69. #669
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Burns View Post
    I'm getting a lot of grey hair now. I'm 59!

    Riding in the 80-90's there was no discussion about wheel size. All the tires were pizza cutters by today's standards.

    Tubeless was not even on the horizon.

    Just to survive a weekend of gnarly riding would entail all kinds McGuivery.

    The style of riding was heavily influenced by the exacting requirements in equipment preparation and riding technique.

    Low air pressure was dangerous back then. If I wanted to shred down something, in direct contrast to today, I'd air up the tires to resist pinch flats.

    Suspension was non-existent or ludicrous. Suspension was in the arms, legs, neck, back, and ass.

    Vision could be impaired by vibration. We'd take hits so hard that loose helmets and glasses could shift position on the cranium. Hilarious.

    It was important to know the trail very well, so as to anticipate the deep pockets, ruts, rills, ramps, and tombstones.

    Of course usually the action was not based upon recall.

    Typically, as it is today, you just took it on the fly, making adjustments in body positioning, and arm and leg piston retraction and extension, to enable the rigid 26" bike wheels to track over the obstacles, rather than conforming to the terrain as modern full suspension bikes do.

    There was a lot more on the line in those times.

    Hell yeah, as mentioned earlier, the trails were different, and so was the attitude. Things were as they were, so to speak. Trails weren't made for mountain bikes.

    We sort of arrived on the trails, maybe uninvited, yet certainly fulfilling an inevitable destiny.

    And we discovered trails that were overlooked by a few generations of hikers. We discovered game trails, log skids, gulches, washes, fall-lines, ridges, landslides; any place you could fit a bike, we'd be there.

    No Google Earth either.

    Some of that stuff was burly as ****!

    And the brakes were so lousy that many times the descents were unstoppable, and a rider was forced to a continuous involuntary commitment of unpredictable velocity.

    All this with your belly or chest on around saddle, thighs flared so they don't get too scratched up from the cantilever brakes at the extreme.

    Since there wasn't as much riding going on, the "trails" would often be filled with all kinds of loose materials such as of course rocks and sticks, moss chunks, clods, logs, hummocks of bunch grass, fern clumps, deep drifts of leaves, thorny vines, low branches, and occasional huge fallen logs, springs, bogs, mud pits, and quick sand.

    Almost all of the charismatic descents are extinct now due to the land management agency trail emasculating activity.

    We would celebrate sections of "buff" trail with hoots of joy to cover a quarter of a mile without resorting to trials riding.

    So yeah, trials was a thing.

    It was good enough to descend a trail without dabbing, let alone setting some sort of time record.

    If anything comes from this rant, it's that trials skills were a part of original 26" bike riding. Flow really didn't exist, per se, in my neck of the woods.

    I don't mind today's flow trails, but I do not seek them out.

    Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk

    I've been hanging around reading the forums for better than a year now. Never have I read a post here that better describes my experiences. It clarifies my noob bewilderment reading about XC riding here and now.

    My trails don't look like the ones pictured in most posts. Twisty, rooty, climby, tight turny hiking trails that I see very few bike tracks on even in the dead of Summer.

    Both my bikes don't look like the ones pictured in anything except vintage whip posts. A couple of rigid bikes, one from the 80's, one from 2011 with them new fangled mechanical discs & retrofitted with a rigid fork. Both rebuilt & running smoothly without rebuilding suspensions annually. I have discovered the joys of lower tire pressure, though!

    I don't catch big air, instead I pick my way through uneven footing, trackstanding until the line becomes clear, then heading another 30 yards to the next minor obstacle. My lowest, and second lowest, gear ratio is the overwhelming favorite.

    In my two years of noobishness, I've had a few chances to ride a pump track about an hour's drive for me. Buddy, it was FUN! I can see how this flow thing could get addicting. But that's not the reality of my nearby trails, so I'll continue to rejoice in those mornings that I didn't have to dab a toe anywhere on my ride.

    I'm 66, and two lessons life taught me are: speed kills and skills outlast luck. I'll just poke along and practice to avoid broken bones at my age. It's nice to know that I'm really mountain biking, though, despite it not looking like anything here!

  70. #670
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Burns View Post
    I'm getting a lot of grey hair now. I'm 59!

    Riding in the 80-90's there was no discussion about wheel size. All the tires were pizza cutters by today's standards.

    Tubeless was not even on the horizon.

    Just to survive a weekend of gnarly riding would entail all kinds McGuivery.

    The style of riding was heavily influenced by the exacting requirements in equipment preparation and riding technique.

    Low air pressure was dangerous back then. If I wanted to shred down something, in direct contrast to today, I'd air up the tires to resist pinch flats.

    Suspension was non-existent or ludicrous. Suspension was in the arms, legs, neck, back, and ass.

    Vision could be impaired by vibration. We'd take hits so hard that loose helmets and glasses could shift position on the cranium. Hilarious.

    It was important to know the trail very well, so as to anticipate the deep pockets, ruts, rills, ramps, and tombstones.

    Of course usually the action was not based upon recall.

    Typically, as it is today, you just took it on the fly, making adjustments in body positioning, and arm and leg piston retraction and extension, to enable the rigid 26" bike wheels to track over the obstacles, rather than conforming to the terrain as modern full suspension bikes do.

    There was a lot more on the line in those times.

    Hell yeah, as mentioned earlier, the trails were different, and so was the attitude. Things were as they were, so to speak. Trails weren't made for mountain bikes.

    We sort of arrived on the trails, maybe uninvited, yet certainly fulfilling an inevitable destiny.

    And we discovered trails that were overlooked by a few generations of hikers. We discovered game trails, log skids, gulches, washes, fall-lines, ridges, landslides; any place you could fit a bike, we'd be there.

    No Google Earth either.

    Some of that stuff was burly as ****!

    And the brakes were so lousy that many times the descents were unstoppable, and a rider was forced to a continuous involuntary commitment of unpredictable velocity.

    All this with your belly or chest on around saddle, thighs flared so they don't get too scratched up from the cantilever brakes at the extreme.

    Since there wasn't as much riding going on, the "trails" would often be filled with all kinds of loose materials such as of course rocks and sticks, moss chunks, clods, logs, hummocks of bunch grass, fern clumps, deep drifts of leaves, thorny vines, low branches, and occasional huge fallen logs, springs, bogs, mud pits, and quick sand.

    Almost all of the charismatic descents are extinct now due to the land management agency trail emasculating activity.

    We would celebrate sections of "buff" trail with hoots of joy to cover a quarter of a mile without resorting to trials riding.

    So yeah, trials was a thing.

    It was good enough to descend a trail without dabbing, let alone setting some sort of time record.

    If anything comes from this rant, it's that trials skills were a part of original 26" bike riding. Flow really didn't exist, per se, in my neck of the woods.

    I don't mind today's flow trails, but I do not seek them out.

    Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk
    amen...and some of us were doing this all on BMX bikes as well...smaller tires, way different geo, harder to climb tech on for sure, but you rode what you had

    you just sort of got on and rode to where ever the trail took you

    my arms, legs back and ass are still my suspension today...though my post heart attack "fragile" heart won't allow me to ride as hard as I did back then

    I also have no problem with flow trails, but I don't like flow trails that were originally techy trails, and then became sanitized...part of the fun of the challenge for me is/was to ride in places where people said that my bike "shouldn't be ale to go"
    Go practice. Figure it out. - Fleas

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  71. #671
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Burns View Post
    I'm getting a lot of grey hair now. I'm 59!

    Riding in the 80-90's there was no discussion about wheel size. All the tires were pizza cutters by today's standards.

    Tubeless was not even on the horizon.

    Just to survive a weekend of gnarly riding would entail all kinds McGuivery.

    The style of riding was heavily influenced by the exacting requirements in equipment preparation and riding technique...
    Nice post. That brings me back to those old days. Besides courting death on occasion on an ancient Univega I also took my road bike a Peugeot Ventoux thru the glens in the area. I'd drop a few psi on the Michelins and rip thru the flatter sections. Those early days were fun and crazy at teh same time. We rode on them junkers!

  72. #672
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    Yup, good post, Jack

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Burns View Post
    I'm getting a lot of grey hair now. I'm 59!

    Riding in the 80-90's there was no discussion about wheel size. All the tires were pizza cutters by today's standards.

    Tubeless was not even on the horizon.

    Just to survive a weekend of gnarly riding would entail all kinds McGuivery.

    The style of riding was heavily influenced by the exacting requirements in equipment preparation and riding technique.

    Low air pressure was dangerous back then. If I wanted to shred down something, in direct contrast to today, I'd air up the tires to resist pinch flats.

    Suspension was non-existent or ludicrous. Suspension was in the arms, legs, neck, back, and ass.

    Vision could be impaired by vibration. We'd take hits so hard that loose helmets and glasses could shift position on the cranium. Hilarious.

    It was important to know the trail very well, so as to anticipate the deep pockets, ruts, rills, ramps, and tombstones.

    Of course usually the action was not based upon recall.

    Typically, as it is today, you just took it on the fly, making adjustments in body positioning, and arm and leg piston retraction and extension, to enable the rigid 26" bike wheels to track over the obstacles, rather than conforming to the terrain as modern full suspension bikes do.

    There was a lot more on the line in those times.

    Hell yeah, as mentioned earlier, the trails were different, and so was the attitude. Things were as they were, so to speak. Trails weren't made for mountain bikes.

    We sort of arrived on the trails, maybe uninvited, yet certainly fulfilling an inevitable destiny.

    And we discovered trails that were overlooked by a few generations of hikers. We discovered game trails, log skids, gulches, washes, fall-lines, ridges, landslides; any place you could fit a bike, we'd be there.

    No Google Earth either.

    Some of that stuff was burly as ****!

    And the brakes were so lousy that many times the descents were unstoppable, and a rider was forced to a continuous involuntary commitment of unpredictable velocity.

    All this with your belly or chest on around saddle, thighs flared so they don't get too scratched up from the cantilever brakes at the extreme.

    Since there wasn't as much riding going on, the "trails" would often be filled with all kinds of loose materials such as of course rocks and sticks, moss chunks, clods, logs, hummocks of bunch grass, fern clumps, deep drifts of leaves, thorny vines, low branches, and occasional huge fallen logs, springs, bogs, mud pits, and quick sand.

    Almost all of the charismatic descents are extinct now due to the land management agency trail emasculating activity.

    We would celebrate sections of "buff" trail with hoots of joy to cover a quarter of a mile without resorting to trials riding.

    So yeah, trials was a thing.

    It was good enough to descend a trail without dabbing, let alone setting some sort of time record.

    If anything comes from this rant, it's that trials skills were a part of original 26" bike riding. Flow really didn't exist, per se, in my neck of the woods.

    I don't mind today's flow trails, but I do not seek them out.
    “You go to war with the army you have.”

    We rode the bikes we had. We had a blast. Part of the fun and adventure was the discovery of it all. Beyond just riding the bike. Exploring the backcountry was thrilling. True adventure.

    I became a Medicare recipient a few months ago and I recall the camaraderie of the early days. The ‘80s. I started riding mountain bikes when I was 32. Even though there were few of us back then, mountain biking was a social activity inasmuch as one rider would practically cheer when he met another rider on a trail. We’d meet & greet. We were oddities, rarities. We sought one another out. We felt like the pioneers that we were.

    Back to the point of this thread, as time goes on, armies do get better. So do bikes. Antique 26ers make great mantle pieces. As for hoots & hollers, give me one of today’s wonder machines including sophisticated suspension and a party post. Even at this advanced age, I still rip.
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    We get old because we quit riding.

  73. #673
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus View Post
    We rode the bikes we had. We had a blast. Part of the fun and adventure was the discovery of it all. Beyond just riding the bike. Exploring the backcountry was thrilling. True adventure.

    I became a Medicare recipient a few months ago and I recall the camaraderie of the early days. The ‘80s. I started riding mountain bikes when I was 32. Even though there were few of us back then, mountain biking was a social activity inasmuch as one rider would practically cheer when he met another rider on a trail. We’d meet & greet. We were oddities, rarities. We sought one another out. We felt like the pioneers that we were.
    =sParty
    Nice. I remember being able to tell who had been out on the trails recently by looking at tire tracks.
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  74. #674
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Nice. I remember being able to tell who had been out on the trails recently by looking at tire tracks.

    Yes! I'm with ya!!

  75. #675
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    Here's a fun thinG!

    26? What's the point??!!-screen-shot-2019-02-10-11.47.10-am.jpg

  76. #676
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    Yesterday I took out a 26" bike from the garage because I was craving a ride on it.

    Man it was awesome.

    After months of riding 29ers, this was a breath of fresh air.

    And the rim brakes! Cane Creek Direct Curve. One of the last great buys I made at Nashbar.

    On the trails. No problems. Just 26.

    Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk

  77. #677
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden boy View Post
    It's all about the feel. 26" wheels spin up quicker and slow down faster. They're more flickable. I can steer with my hips on descents. They're so responsive, they feel telepathic. I think it, and they do it. Yes, they force you to make better line selections, but that's part of the fun for me. It's cliche now, but 26" wheels are like a sports car; as you go up in size, they become more like monster trucks.

    Or I could just summarize and say I have more fun on 26" wheeled bikes.
    So you aggree with me that 27½ and 29 is nothing but marketing bullshit?
    26" untill I stop riding.
    get fresh air and stay fit - a bike can give a lot

  78. #678
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    I rode the '07 RMB this morning, just pointed it where I was goin'.
    I don't know why,... it's just MUSS easier to pedal than the other ones.

  79. #679
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Because 650b and 29 are easier...just like an eBike. I don't need easy. I'm only 55.

    And then there's this...

    The first pic is when I built my new carbon 26 hoops and mounted the standard 2.35 tires that I can buy all day long for only $35 ea. and always buy them in bulk.

    The second pic is the bike today with the elimination of the Fox 34 CTD and CTD Boostvalve shock, adding a brand new Pike RCT3 and new Monarch Plus Debonaire shock. And I should mention I built this brand new 2014 factory warranty covered Expert Evo frameset in June '15 and paid <1/3 of it's new price and built it with all top line components for pennies on the dollar. It would cost me well over $7k to spec this bike as it sits with the only difference being wheel diameter.

    I'll be wearing this one out.
    You are still young. Hope you'll have many more years with your nice bikes
    get fresh air and stay fit - a bike can give a lot

  80. #680
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    Quote Originally Posted by fokof View Post
    It's a good analogy with bikes:
    The 26ers are come back in fashion in 10 years , people are gonna realize how fast and responsive they are compared to old 29ers.
    I had to order a custom made frame to keep a 26 setup ...... sad......


    PS : I know that we're in a bike forum but about the vinyl comeback :
    it is 75% nostalgia and 25% to be cool.
    Nothing about sound , in fact , the difference perceived in sound quality is mostly due to the higher distortion with vinyl. (if you compare to uncompressed digital sound)
    Distortion is giving "a certain sound" that digital doesn't have.
    Same thing with tube amps , certain people prefer them because of the higher distortion.
    You can still buy a new Ibis Mojo frame on their web site should you want to.
    get fresh air and stay fit - a bike can give a lot

  81. #681
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Maybe the trails he cares about aren't the type of trails that they run pro XC races on?

    I suppose most users of this web site are not really XC pro racers so who cares?
    get fresh air and stay fit - a bike can give a lot

  82. #682
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    One thing I found as a surprise, really a bit of a shock, is that no one tells you the real diameter of a rim plus tire until you actually measure it yourself.

    26 standard (1.95) is really 25.0 to 25.2 inches

    27.5 standard (2.10) is really 27.0 to 27.2 inches

    29 standard is...I have not measured but I think 29 x 2.3 is actually 29 inches


    However, and this is key, 26" standard tires are not really mountain bike tires, at least not now in 2018. They were 20 years ago, but not now. If you go up at all in width to say, 2.10, or 2.25, or 2.40, the diameter suddenly jumps up an inch to 26.0 - 26.2, because the side casing is longer than on a 1.95, which is basically a relatively wide road bike tire with some extra tread on it.

    So what's the gist of the post? If you ride a 26 x 1.95 on a trail, as Sparticus says it is drastically inferior. Clearance is horrible, bumps are amplified, downhill steering is handicapped. But...there is a solution. 2.5, 2.7, 2.8, 3.0 sizes. 26 x 2.5 and 2.7, maybe 2.8 should be able to fit in your front fork (the back may only be able to take 2.1 to 2.5). You can also buy a 27.5" fork and then put in a 26 x 3.0 tire. The wider 26" tires are not drastically inferior. They may not be as good all-around as 27.5 tires but they are at least in the same range of performance. My 26 x 2.8 can handle chunkier/ruttier stuff significantly better than my 27.5 x 2.5. So if you still have a 26" bike you should really try out wider 2.5, 2.7, or 2.8 tires, you might be surprised what they can do on the trail.
    Mostly we can have fun on any bike. I rode a Trek 8900 from 1998 to 2017 with 26ers. Now on a 29, I have just as much fun. A bit different as it does some things better and some not so much. But in the end, no matter what bike I am on, it is a blast. So now I am using Di2 and eTap soon to be AXS user, still having the same fun with less maintenance and a touch less frustration but before 29, now with and who knows what down the road, it is always going to be a ton of fun and I get my life extending exercise to boot. I will ride anything I can get a leg over and smile.

  83. #683
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Burns View Post
    Similar situation here as well.

    Something else we going through these days is 27.2, what's the point?

    We've got a brace of 27.2 seatposts.

    Now we're in the habit of using dropper posts, and 27.2 is just too skinny and niche for many options. However there are a few out there.

    Who ride's 26 & 27.2 with a dropper post? Who has drilled into an old 26" seat tube to create a stealth cable routing? Would anyone dare to?

    I don't, but I'm telling you right now I probably will do these things one day...well maybe not.

    So will my wife. She's got a nice 26'er.

    Back in the day there was a whole different approach obviously, where we'd just get back and sort of stiffen up the core and suck the seat into the gut toake it down the steepest sections. It was nuts. Sometimes we'd get stuck back there! Remember that?

    Last weekend I saw a guy on a pristine 94' Bontrager. It looked like a BMX bike next to all the long legged low and slack FS bikes on the summit. But it still looked slick.





    Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk
    Why drill because you want a seat post. I have a 31.6 on my 26" and have no dropper post. My Thomson Masterpiece is good enough and when needed I lower the post manually. While doing that I have time to look at the beautiful sky I am above and the landscape through the holes in the sky. I use my bike to get fresh air enjoy the mountains and to stay reasonably fit. I do not use Strava or stopwatch. Would not get more fun out of that. After getting from sea level to mountain top I stop and enjoy the fresh air. Old and stubborn. What do I care?
    get fresh air and stay fit - a bike can give a lot

  84. #684
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    If you can't find anything for 26 then go 27.5 . I still ride 26 but my forks are for 27.5 . I will never go to larger wheels simply from my test ride of a 29er that put me off . I like a lighter more nimble bike . A larger wheel will go over bumps better but climbs slowly (IME) and turns slower (IME) . I had a month to test ride a Cube and never again . Youngsters are growing up with 29ers so of course they will be bias towards it (like me and 26) but the bottom line is there are pros and cons to both and one is not better than the other .

  85. #685
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    There were retro-grouches back then screaming bloody murder because "what the hell's wrong with my 1" quill stem?" and "threads are the real deal bro!" I distinctly remember when people (lots of them) thought index shifting was bullcrap.

    I worked in shops most of my life and almost every "standard" change has been met with resistance. A new stem is about $30. Wider is better
    Wider is better; if you are as big as Arnold Schwarzeneggerr absolutely or if you are riding a Harley Davidson.
    When I started riding a handlebar was 45 - 50cm wide. Then I got a 60cm and me being rather wide over the shoulders (for my height) that was no problem but when I see the little guys riding here with 70cm plus wide handlebars and having a hard time controlling them I must admit that marketing bullshit is really profitable.
    get fresh air and stay fit - a bike can give a lot

  86. #686
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Said who? For a lot of guys it's about being faster than your mates. Or faster than some guy you don't even know who also has a sad app on his phone.
    Poor guys, then they do not see the beauty of the mountains they are riding in (we are riding mountain bikes yeah?).
    Lucky Luke was faster than his shadow, but he was riding a horse.
    get fresh air and stay fit - a bike can give a lot

  87. #687
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneTrustMan View Post
    Like something between 80 to 130 dollar.
    I can find only stuff for like 250 up to 500 dollar.
    Try eBay and find a 20mm and reduce it to 15.
    get fresh air and stay fit - a bike can give a lot

  88. #688
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Nice. I remember being able to tell who had been out on the trails recently by looking at tire tracks.
    Some of the places I ride I see that only goats have been there before me.
    get fresh air and stay fit - a bike can give a lot

  89. #689
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    Spent the evening taking a 26er down in the garage and getting it ready for a bike packing trip this weekend.

    Contrary to the modern ultra-light style of bike packing, the 26er has been my camping bike of choice due to the fact that the wheel size and frame fits the old BOB trailer.

    For just an overnighter, we will reach our campsite well before noon, and drop the gear, and then go riding off all afternoon. Then we'll do another loop on Sunday before hitching the trailer.

    This bike has a custom 9 speed microdrive triple, and a 36t rear cassette. Because of this, the loaded trailer can be pulled up almost anything.

    It's all so passe. But I am seriously looking forward to riding it on some of my favorite trails.

    I had to scare up a stem, bars, grips, seatpost, new front disc brake pads, and a saddle from my stores.
    I put on a dropper post and a new Brooks B17 black leather saddle.

    It's going to be running tubes! I'll carry spare innertubes.

    On the testride it felt great to ride 26 again.

    Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk

  90. #690
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Burns View Post
    Spent the evening taking a 26er down in the garage and getting it ready for a bike packing trip this weekend.

    Contrary to the modern ultra-light style of bike packing, the 26er has been my camping bike of choice due to the fact that the wheel size and frame fits the old BOB trailer.

    For just an overnighter, we will reach our campsite well before noon, and drop the gear, and then go riding off all afternoon. Then we'll do another loop on Sunday before hitching the trailer.

    This bike has a custom 9 speed microdrive triple, and a 36t rear cassette. Because of this, the loaded trailer can be pulled up almost anything.

    It's all so passe. But I am seriously looking forward to riding it on some of my favorite trails.

    I had to scare up a stem, bars, grips, seatpost, new front disc brake pads, and a saddle from my stores.
    I put on a dropper post and a new Brooks B17 black leather saddle.

    It's going to be running tubes! I'll carry spare innertubes.

    On the testride it felt great to ride 26 again.

    Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk
    wow...a 26er AND running tubes...you definitely don't know what you are doing!!!


    Go practice. Figure it out. - Fleas

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  91. #691
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    Quote Originally Posted by sXeXBMXer View Post
    wow...a 26er AND running tubes...you definitely don't know what you are doing!!!


    Ha ha!

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  92. #692
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    Quote Originally Posted by sXeXBMXer View Post
    wow...a 26er AND running tubes...you definitely don't know what you are doing!!!


    Riding a 26 he knows. Hope he brings enough tubes. Very old rims cannot be made tubeless and safe at the same time
    get fresh air and stay fit - a bike can give a lot

  93. #693
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    I'll follow up with a ride report. I usually ride tubeless. I've been doing this kind of camping at least once a year, and I usually do get at least one flat.

    You guys are posers with your superior attitudes. Chill.

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  94. #694
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Burns View Post
    I'll follow up with a ride report. I usually ride tubeless. I've been doing this kind of camping at least once a year, and I usually do get at least one flat.

    You guys are posers with your superior attitudes. Chill.

    Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk
    also will want the ride report just to see your trip...love seeing where and how people go...helps me plan for mine!
    Go practice. Figure it out. - Fleas

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  95. #695
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    Went bike packing with the 1996 Dean 26" Titanium hardtail this weekend. It fits the old BOB Ibex trailer we have.

    What's the point?

    The combination allows me to carry me and my wife's gear for a trip into the back-country. The BOB trailer will only fit a 26" wheel. It works really well. I used to do a lot of trail work with it back in the day. It's had loads of use.

    Because I have other bikes, in recent years this bike only gets used with the BOB trailer for special activities.

    It's still shod with innertubes. It's not a race or a KOM machine. It's a nice old bike!

    Last week, anticipating the camping trip I had to make sure it was ready for duty. The 26'er was found hanging with some parts pillaged for other duties.

    A KS manual dropper post fit, and a despised unused Brooks B17 saddle floating around in the garage went on it, seeing as there wasn't a spare saddle around otherwise.

    That saddle turned out to be terrible for steep technical climbs. I really know better, but I gave it a try anyway.

    The bottom bracket was shot. Found that out on a test ride over to a friend's house. Luckily I found a spare in the garage.

    It also needed a handlebar, grips, and a stem.

    Flats were expected, but none occurred this time. 28# PSI front and 32# PSI rear was a good setting for this.

    On the front is a GEAX Lobo mas Loco 2.5" DH tire. On the rear is a Kenda Telonix 2.35" tire. These tires are heavy and tough, with deep knobs, still, after many years of sporadic use.

    The fork is a 2002 Marzocchi air fork which has had one complete factory rebuild in it's life. I works amazingly great, still. It's certainly a bit twist-flexy, and that's part of the overall suspension effect as I see it.

    The hydraulic front brake is part of an XT brifter, from the days of the "low normal" rear derailleur.

    On the back is an XTR V-brake, hooked up to an ancient XTR cable shift/brake pod. This piece works flawlessly. There's a Shimano carbon brake booster bridge to keep the thin titanium seat stays from spreading when pulling on the brakes. It feels good and firm.

    What's the point?

    All these old bike parts which are a pleasure to operate are survivors with countless hours of duty.

    Shifting the front triple is a humble LX top pull derailleur. On the rear, attached to a solid integral 6/4 titanium hanger is a Deore derailleur that handles the 36t cassette.

    The front cranks are mixed. 175 Ritchey Logic with my pick 20, 29, and 36t chainrings, on the right of the JIS taper BB, and an orphan, last issue of XT JIS crank on the left.

    The resulting ratios make it possible to tow a real load up real singletrack. At the same time, I can climb up some of the steepest stuff possible.

    What's the point?

    Going uphill is the strong suit of this 26" bike. As well, after coming off riding 29" bikes most of the time, the switchbacks seem bigger, and the bike feels sprightly and nimble.

    Yes going downhill is a good hair raising experience. It's a blast. This was the first time I descended on this bike with a dropper post. What a hoot!

    I expected to get a flat somewhere, but didn't. One thing I did was to prevent the front tire from rotating on the rim on the hard braking on the steep and fast descents, which shears the inner-tube at the base of the valve. I did this using a trick I learned from a friend, which is to insert some pieces of inner-tube between the bead and the rim.

    Laugh out loud, it works.

    Back in the day, flats were just an accepted part of mountain bike life. Repairs were opportunities to take a break and enjoy the scenery.

    What's the point of it all?

    For me it's all about getting out there and spending quality time immersed in nature and rugged adventure with no one breathing down my neck away from fools and stupid rules.


    Last edited by Jack Burns; 4 Days Ago at 12:05 AM.

  96. #696
    Sneaker man
    Reputation: mik_git's Avatar
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    2,840
    I like that Dean. The bike packing thing doesn't do it for me, but I'd happily have that bike as a main rider if I had to.
    All the gear and no idea.

  97. #697
    mtbr member
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    The point of a 26'er for me now was price. I put a rigid fork on my 29'er and wanted a comfortable winter/easy singletrack bike. A fatbike is heavy IMO so I looked for a FS bike. Found a 2013 Canyon Nerve Cf Ltd used four times according to the owner. The bike looked new. Got a sub 11 kg bike for 2k$. Very happy with the ride. I'm 62 and not a racer so for my use this is a Great bike. Riding now with 2.35 Ice Spiker Pro, light and ni ble.

  98. #698
    mtbr member
    Reputation: las-palmas's Avatar
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    256
    That's the point!

    Some live for being first and some of us have other priorities.

    Fresh air beautiful scenery.
    get fresh air and stay fit - a bike can give a lot

  99. #699
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Jack Burns's Avatar
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    1,856
    Quote Originally Posted by lumpsum View Post
    The point of a 26'er for me now was price. I put a rigid fork on my 29'er and wanted a comfortable winter/easy singletrack bike. A fatbike is heavy IMO so I looked for a FS bike. Found a 2013 Canyon Nerve Cf Ltd used four times according to the owner. The bike looked new. Got a sub 11 kg bike for 2k$. Very happy with the ride. I'm 62 and not a racer so for my use this is a Great bike. Riding now with 2.35 Ice Spiker Pro, light and ni ble.
    Let's see that Canyon!

    It's probably one the finest expressions and renditions of a 26" bike, and with disc brakes.

    How big of a tire can you fit in the rear?

    For me, the bigger the better.

    But back in the day I was one of those who would pick lightweight 1.9-1.95 tires and run them hard. Pizza Cutters!

    Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk

  100. #700
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    26-ers: Ride 'em if you got 'em.

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