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  1. #1
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    Surly Dirt Wizard 29+ actual measurements

    Spoiler alert...not quite a #29x3

    https://ridealongside.wordpress.com/...-measurements/
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    That's fricken awesome ! Closest thing to a 2.8 minion Ill ever get. Plus I wonr have to run the big fat 50mm rim.

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    But doesn't the dirt wizard have more volume than the minion? 2.8" is really just contact patch, but the + size tire should be much more cushy.

    I could be wrong....

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    I'm not sure there's any "there" there. I believe Surly always said that the casing of the DW would be 2.75" - smaller than the Knard - and that the 3" would only be measured at the knobs. I agree with the commentor who speculated that the knob measurement would grow that extra 0.2" after they've been mounted a while. After all the heartburn and eating crow over delays, I'd be pretty surprised if Surly wasn't pretty solid in making sure that the tire that was actually released meets their specs.

    [Edit: Still, part of me can't help hope that it IS even smaller, in hopes that it might fit some non-plus sized 29er bikes...]
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    Quote Originally Posted by fixgeardan View Post
    That's fricken awesome ! Closest thing to a 2.8 minion Ill ever get. Plus I wonr have to run the big fat 50mm rim.
    I received mine yesterday, mounted them last night, and rode with them at lunchtime today. They are fantastic and everything I hoped they would be. Cornering traction is almost as good as a Surly Bud. I found rear traction to be even better than a Nate.

    Only downside is that QBP has already sold out of them and Universal only has like 8 left.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iamkeith View Post
    I'm not sure there's any "there" there. I believe Surly always said that the casing of the DW would be 2.75" - smaller than the Knard - and that the 3" would only be measured at the knobs. I agree with the commentor who speculated that the knob measurement would grow that extra 0.2" after they've been mounted a while. After all the heartburn and eating crow over delays, I'd be pretty surprised if Surly wasn't pretty solid in making sure that the tire that was actually released meets their specs.

    [Edit: Still, part of me can't help hope that it IS even smaller, in hopes that it might fit some non-plus sized 29er bikes...]
    I've been running several different DW setups (all of them pre-production) on 35 and 40mm rims, in a 29" Pike.

    Not an ideal amount of clearance for mud, etc... But no contact, no bottom out on crown. Freaking amazing amount of traction with amazingly controlled suspension.

    Methinks if more people rode this combo, very, very few of them would be looking at B+.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jnroyal View Post
    I received mine yesterday, mounted them last night, and rode with them at lunchtime today. They are fantastic and everything I hoped they would be. Cornering traction is almost as good as a Surly Bud. I found rear traction to be even better than a Nate.

    Only downside is that QBP has already sold out of them and Universal only has like 8 left.
    Any chance you could measure the height and let us know what you find?

    According to this photo, it actually looks like it's quite a bit SHORTER than the Knard.

    Surly says here that the radius of the Knard is 343mm, but doesn't have the DW listed yet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post

    Methinks if more people rode this combo, very, very few of them would be looking at B+.
    Ah, ha! ^^^ THAT's exactly why I've been asking these questions, and exactly what I've been hoping to hear!!! Just hoping they'll squeeze in...
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    I've been running several different DW setups (all of them pre-production) on 35 and 40mm rims, in a 29" Pike.

    Not an ideal amount of clearance for mud, etc... But no contact, no bottom out on crown. Freaking amazing amount of traction with amazingly controlled suspension.

    Methinks if more people rode this combo, very, very few of them would be looking at B+.
    Awesome, Mike THANKS for that info!
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    Mikesee,

    Could you speculate on the volume compared to a Knard? I am also curious is this will fit on my Fox 34 for my LB Punkass to replace the Minion 2.5.

    Thanks,
    -Nolan

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    Smaller (shorter) than a Knard for sure. No idea on the actual measured difference because I haven't had a Knard here in over a year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Smaller (shorter) than a Knard for sure. No idea on the actual measured difference because I haven't had a Knard here in over a year.
    Thank you sir! Sounds like it Surly will sell a lot of these as they will be able to squeeze into a lot more forks and frames.

    -Nolan

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Smaller (shorter) than a Knard for sure. No idea on the actual measured difference because I haven't had a Knard here in over a year.
    Is it enough difference to make it weird for knard rear and dirt wizard on the front?

  14. #14
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    Does anyone have info on how well these set up tubeless?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Smaller (shorter) than a Knard for sure. No idea on the actual measured difference because I haven't had a Knard here in over a year.
    mikesee, are you using this or test fit it in the lenz punkass?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Methinks if more people rode this combo, very, very few of them would be looking at B+.
    I've never seen a DW and I've got zero interest in B+.

    I love how uber tall 29+ tires roll through rough terrain. The width is nice and I'll take it, but the height is where it's at.

    Going from a 2.4" 29er tire to a 3" 29er tire was pretty amazing.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by forgiven_nick View Post
    If that's a fresh tire at 2.8" it's going to be bigger in a month once it's been ridden a bunch.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iamkeith View Post
    Any chance you could measure the height and let us know what you find?
    My calipers are pretty crappy but I get a sidewall height of about 2.25 inches. I'm running a Fox 32 and have about 0.25" of clearance between the knobs and the arch.

    I'm not sure if the tire could hit the crown if the fork lost air, I figure if the fork suddenly loses all it's air I've got bigger problems and am going to crash anyway.

    I'm running Blunt 35 rims and the knob width is a hair over 2.75", casing width is a hair under 2.75", so definitely lower volume than a Knard and on par with a Fat B Nimble. I don't really notice the lower volume when riding but then again I've got the squishy fork and a Thudbuster.

    I normally ran 12psi front/16psi back on Knards and FBN's and tried dropping to 11/15 with the DW's yesterday. That was a mistake: I had multiple soft rim strikes and one really hard one on the back that I can't believe didn't pinch-flat the tire and dent the rim. With the DW's you can ride so much faster through roots and rocks that you're going to need to run higher pressures.

    I'll say it again: the Dirt Wizards are fantastic tires. Surly really needs to offer a complete Instigator-like build for the Krampus in 2016 with these tires and a Fox Float or the new Manitou Magnum.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnroyal View Post
    My calipers are pretty crappy but I get a sidewall height of about 2.25 inches. I'm running a Fox 32 and have about 0.25" of clearance between the knobs and the arch.
    Thanks! How about from axle to outer edge of tire, and from axle to shoulder of knobs?(something to gauge the overall height, and clearance needed to seat tube / chainstays.)
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    I've been holding out waiting to get a 29x3 tire for my rigid OnOne Inbred SS for a year wating for the Dirt Wizard to come out (didn't want a Knard). But now that I've looked at one in person and seen all these pictures, I'm not sure it's what I want.

    I think I am going Maxxis Chronicle route, despite it's ridiculously ugly graphics.

    However, if the DW fits inside a Pike I might put it on the front of my FS 29er when the Hans Dampf wears out.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I've never seen a DW and I've got zero interest in B+.

    I love how uber tall 29+ tires roll through rough terrain. The width is nice and I'll take it, but the height is where it's at.

    Going from a 2.4" 29er tire to a 3" 29er tire was pretty amazing.
    I think I'm mostly with you. This whole thing is kind of an ironic illustration of the lack of original thinking that goes on in the industry - outside of a few companies and individuals, anyway:

    It blows me away how fast the mainstream has jumped on board with B+, especially when you consider how slow they were to embrace Fat bikes and 650b in the first place. Yet they seem to have missed much of the point.

    The real revelation was Surly's 29+. B+ , which was spoon-fed to the industry by @Bigwheel, expressly as a stop-gap solution for squeezing a little more cush into an existing crop of existing and now-obsolete 29ers, should probably have stayed as a temporary measure.

    Not that it isn't great to have more size options, and perhaps B+ will still be perfect for smaller frames/riders, and for some task-specific bikes that need a smaller wheel, and for summer wheelsets to work with the native geometry of full-fat bikes. But it doesn't do the same thing for you that a 29+ does - not even close.

    Instead of the "me-too" reaction, it would have been nice to see some product engineers at these big companies develop something new and needed- like the glaringly-absent wheel size that falls between 650b and 700c which, if made in a plus size, would have given you more rollover benefits AND worked with existing 29er geometries and gearing.

    Perhaps I'm being too optimistic about what this Dirt Wizzard might do, not having test-fit one myself yet. But wouldn't it be hilarious if it ended up fitting as many bikes as B+ do, and stole all the B+ thunder? Maybe the delay was really a planned, passive-offensive strategy by those wily execs at Surly: Get the copy-cat competition to use up all their resources chasing a decoy down the wrong path, and then..... WHAM! Beat 'em to the real finish line!
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by mxer View Post
    mikesee, are you using this or test fit it in the lenz punkass?
    Won't fit in the rear. But this tire is so amazing I encouraged Devin to build a whole new chassis to fit it. Devin has built a few samples, we'll see where it goes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Won't fit in the rear. But this tire is so amazing I encouraged Devin to build a whole new chassis to fit it. Devin has built a few samples, we'll see where it goes.
    So something a bit different than the Fat Moth?
    "I ride to clear my head, my head is clearer when I'm riding SS. Therefore, I choose to ride SS."~ Fullrange Drew

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    Quote Originally Posted by nitrousjunky View Post
    So something a bit different than the Fat Moth?
    FatMoth = XC geo. Longish stays, steepish HTA.

    Fatillac = sporty geo. Shortish stays, slackish HTA. Experimenting with lots of different (4, 4.5", and 5" rear travel, and many different forks from 100mm to 140mm) ideas to see where the genre really shines.

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    Sweet!
    "I ride to clear my head, my head is clearer when I'm riding SS. Therefore, I choose to ride SS."~ Fullrange Drew

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    Quote Originally Posted by nitrousjunky View Post
    Sweet!
    Indeed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I love how uber tall 29+ tires roll through rough terrain. The width is nice and I'll take it, but the height is where it's at.
    To a point, I agree. Chupas and Knards and Chronicles have a lot of height, and as such they don't fall into 29" holes. But what they have in height they lack in grip, regardless of pressure, and that's where the DW really shines.

    I haven't cared much for any + tires at speed, but when the going is slow and rough they have numerous benefits over fat or 29".

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    mike,
    I have found a major improvement in traction and suppleness in the chupacabra over the knard. what's your take on the diff between the chupa and the DW?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coleman22 View Post
    mike,
    I have found a major improvement in traction and suppleness in the chupacabra over the knard. what's your take on the diff between the chupa and the DW?
    Bigger than the difference between Chupa and Knard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    To a point, I agree. Chupas and Knards and Chronicles have a lot of height, and as such they don't fall into 29" holes. But what they have in height they lack in grip, regardless of pressure, and that's where the DW really shines.

    I haven't cared much for any + tires at speed, but when the going is slow and rough they have numerous benefits over fat or 29".
    Interesting. Since I'm looking for a front tire on my SS, which is slower than my geared bike, maybe the DW is a better choice than the Chronicle. Plus it won't look so mullet like with a 2.4 on the back.

    Chronicles have good reviews but one person I spoke with said it doesn't make a good front tire because it auto steers. I'd sacrifice weight and size for grip. Isn't that why we like big tires in the first place?

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubba13 View Post
    Does anyone have info on how well these set up tubeless?
    Set it up tubeless last night. I noticed right away it was a much looser fit than the Knard or Gravity Vidar. The Knard was super easy and I only had to use a floor pump. The Gravity I had to use a compressor but without taking out the valve. For the DW, the fit was so loose that even with the compressor air was leaking through the bead and not even coming close to seating. So, I took out the valve and it seated up pretty easily. But then the frigging tire blow completely off!!! That was a first....and Stans all over the garage and myself. That was weird. Of all the tires I've run tubeless over the years and I was with the first wave to switch because I hate tubes so much (so much I rarely ever carry one with me, but choose to use reliable tires instead). BTW, I didn't have that much pressure in the tire when it blew off. Well, surprisingly the tire and rim and myself were all in tact.
    Anyway, I set it up again and very gingerly added air this time making sure not to overfill. I rode it on the road and a little off road. I noticed the outer knobs were really stressed on the road as if they were so tall that the amount of friction was enough to bend the knobs over a bit.

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    Aren't tires bad after a blow off, at least for tubeless use? Bummer, considering it cost more than 35.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by iamkeith View Post
    Any chance you could measure the height and let us know what you find?

    According to this photo, it actually looks like it's quite a bit SHORTER than the Knard.

    Surly says here that the radius of the Knard is 343mm, but doesn't have the DW listed yet.
    The height mounted on a 45mm/50mm (inner/outer) rim is about 29-3/4" which falls right in between my Bontrager XR4 (about 29-1/4") and a Gravity Vidar (about 30-1/2").

    The width I measured the DW on the same rim with a caliper was 2.91"

    I have to admit I am a little disappointed in the height but it didn't seem to mess with the geometry of my bike which I designed to run a regular 29er in the back and a 29+ in the front for overall speed.

    BTW, the 2.4 Mountain King I mounted in the rear on a 31.6mm/38mm rim only measured 2.3" Not sure in what verse (as in universe but it couldn't be a universe if there's more than one) that tire measures 2.4"

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by iamkeith View Post
    I think I'm mostly with you. This whole thing is kind of an ironic illustration of the lack of original thinking that goes on in the industry - outside of a few companies and individuals, anyway:

    It blows me away how fast the mainstream has jumped on board with B+, especially when you consider how slow they were to embrace Fat bikes and 650b in the first place. Yet they seem to have missed much of the point.

    The real revelation was Surly's 29+. B+ , which was spoon-fed to the industry by @Bigwheel, expressly as a stop-gap solution for squeezing a little more cush into an existing crop of existing and now-obsolete 29ers, should probably have stayed as a temporary measure.

    Not that it isn't great to have more size options, and perhaps B+ will still be perfect for smaller frames/riders, and for some task-specific bikes that need a smaller wheel, and for summer wheelsets to work with the native geometry of full-fat bikes. But it doesn't do the same thing for you that a 29+ does - not even close.

    Instead of the "me-too" reaction, it would have been nice to see some product engineers at these big companies develop something new and needed- like the glaringly-absent wheel size that falls between 650b and 700c which, if made in a plus size, would have given you more rollover benefits AND worked with existing 29er geometries and gearing.

    Perhaps I'm being too optimistic about what this Dirt Wizzard might do, not having test-fit one myself yet. But wouldn't it be hilarious if it ended up fitting as many bikes as B+ do, and stole all the B+ thunder? Maybe the delay was really a planned, passive-offensive strategy by those wily execs at Surly: Get the copy-cat competition to use up all their resources chasing a decoy down the wrong path, and then..... WHAM! Beat 'em to the real finish line!
    Interesting! Yea, I'm not looking at 650b+ myself but I am 6'4". The 29+ just rolls over stuff period. I think if I was a lot shorter, I would be hoping for more 650b+ tire options. And don't you think they would make for a great semi-fat full suspension platform?

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    Aren't tires bad after a blow off, at least for tubeless use? Bummer, considering it cost more than 35.
    You mean for the bead?
    I wouldn't be surprised since they have to stretch quite a bit to blow off like that, but I was riding with it last night jumping off 2-1/2 footers (over and again) to flat and blowing down my neighbors steep rock embankment. They still looked good this morning and hadn't lost a bit of air.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yogiprophet View Post
    The width I measured the DW on the same rim with a caliper was 2.91"

    I have to admit I am a little disappointed in the height
    This, to me, is the beauty of the DW: Lots of width and shit-tons of grip, but not so much height that you get tire squirm at low pressures.

    I've been running my front DW on a Derby 35mm rim at ~10 to 10.5 psi. No squirm, no weirdness. Same tire, same rim out back at ~13 to 14 psi. Technical, rock crawly type trails where precision is king.

    I have to run 2-3 psi higher in the Chupacabra and Chronicle, because they're so tall they squirm and are generally not predictable enough at the lower pressures. And in that 2-3 psi you lose a buncha grip.

    Just my $.02.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Won't fit in the rear. But this tire is so amazing I encouraged Devin to build a whole new chassis to fit it. Devin has built a few samples, we'll see where it goes.
    Great to hear that!Thanks mikesee!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    This, to me, is the beauty of the DW: Lots of width and shit-tons of grip, but not so much height that you get tire squirm at low pressures.

    I've been running my front DW on a Derby 35mm rim at ~10 to 10.5 psi. No squirm, no weirdness. Same tire, same rim out back at ~13 to 14 psi. Technical, rock crawly type trails where precision is king.

    I have to run 2-3 psi higher in the Chupacabra and Chronicle, because they're so tall they squirm and are generally not predictable enough at the lower pressures. And in that 2-3 psi you lose a buncha grip.

    Just my $.02.
    I am also running a Vidar which has 5/8" larger diameter and had not had a single issue with squirming at low pressures, but I am running a 50mm rim. I ran that tire in the front at the Sedona Big Frigging Loop and was the only one I know that cleared the High Line downhill without a single dab. It is so precise partly I think because the knobs aren't so large so there isn't much flex and they are well designed and placed. I bought the DW hoping it would fit in my Lefty a little better and it seems to so far. Hoping it holds as good as the Vidar. We'll see this weekend at Mesa Verde.
    What pressure are you running in the DWs?

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogiprophet View Post
    Set it up tubeless last night. I noticed right away it was a much looser fit than the Knard or Gravity Vidar. The Knard was super easy and I only had to use a floor pump. The Gravity I had to use a compressor but without taking out the valve. For the DW, the fit was so loose that even with the compressor air was leaking through the bead and not even coming close to seating. So, I took out the valve and it seated up pretty easily. But then the frigging tire blow completely off!!! That was a first....and Stans all over the garage and myself. That was weird. Of all the tires I've run tubeless over the years and I was with the first wave to switch because I hate tubes so much (so much I rarely ever carry one with me, but choose to use reliable tires instead). BTW, I didn't have that much pressure in the tire when it blew off. Well, surprisingly the tire and rim and myself were all in tact.
    Anyway, I set it up again and very gingerly added air this time making sure not to overfill. I rode it on the road and a little off road. I noticed the outer knobs were really stressed on the road as if they were so tall that the amount of friction was enough to bend the knobs over a bit.
    This doesn't sound promising to me, especially as a front tire. There was no way my 27tpi Knards would have set up tubeless on my Dually's without building the bead up or going split tube. Has anyone else had this experience with the DW?

    Thanks for the info!
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    Quote Originally Posted by maelstromwbc View Post
    I've been holding out waiting to get a 29x3 tire for my rigid OnOne Inbred SS for a year wating for the Dirt Wizard to come out (didn't want a Knard). But now that I've looked at one in person and seen all these pictures, I'm not sure it's what I want.

    I think I am going Maxxis Chronicle route, despite it's ridiculously ugly graphics.

    However, if the DW fits inside a Pike I might put it on the front of my FS 29er when the Hans Dampf wears out.
    I plan on riding it with a tube for a couple rides to set the bead, then I use windex to wet the tire before I spray starter fluid and light it, pop of the bead setting then I inject the Stans, works every time.

    -Nolan

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    Quote Originally Posted by nolan17 View Post
    I plan on riding it with a tube for a couple rides to set the bead, then I use windex to wet the tire before I spray starter fluid and light it, pop of the bead setting then I inject the Stans, works every time.

    -Nolan
    Starter fluid and light it......for a bicycle tire......yikes!

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    Popped up on a Flow Ex perfectly just like the Minions . Casing thickness is a concern.
    No way will fit on the back of a Jones.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pulsepro View Post
    Starter fluid and light it......for a bicycle tire......yikes!
    Sets the bead better than my compresor, although if you put too much in it blows the wheel and tire about 4' high and all you can hear is ringing in your ears for a couple days. I use less now and wear ear protection.

    -Nolan

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    Quote Originally Posted by iamkeith View Post
    Thanks! How about from axle to outer edge of tire, and from axle to shoulder of knobs?(something to gauge the overall height, and clearance needed to seat tube / chainstays.)
    I get about 14.25" from centerline of axle to the outer edge of the side knobs. Overall radius is about 14.75".

    The tire should fit in a lot of 29er forks, especially on a 35 rim, but I agree that there aren't many (if any) "regular 29er" frames that will fit it in the back.

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    I washed out a Knard on 50mm rims in super dry leaves (like bits of waxed paper)and took my knee over some vertical shale. I ended up in the ER and 15 staples in my knee. Up to dry leaves from this mini drought we are having I liked the Knards except for the weak ass side walls and when I tried to set them up tubless they blew off my older pair of northpaws 47mm twice while ridding.
    I was waiting for the Vittoria Bombolinis.
    The aggressive side tread is maybe what I really need in the DW?
    I was enjoying the non-studded 45nrth Dillangers on my Fatbike. The Corning was like Velcro in the dirt.
    I thought having the larger volume of the 3" was why we love the +, not sure if the DW is big enough esp hearing it would possibly fit a reg. 29er frame or fork. But I would like some more aggressive tread.
    Anyone got the weights of the DW?

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    I took advantage of our wonder week straight of Colorado rain and went to LBS that has a ton of 29+ options. I had been undecided against the Surly Dirt Wizard and Maxis Chronicle. The Maxis Chronicle looks more like an 'all around' tire, whereas the DW looked almost like a downhill tire. This would be mounted on a On One Inbred SS 29er with a rigid Salsa Cromoto fork. I always wanted a 29+ but never liked the Knard tire. The Maxis Chronicle seemed to be what I was looking for, but heard it didn't make a great front tire. Personally, if I have to decide between a 'fast' tread or a tread with traction for the front, I want more traction to the front. The tire was $90 for the 120tpi version which isn't bad compared to many of the 29+ options. These tires will bet set up with 2.4 tubes for now. Will switch to tubeless when the trails dry out. Giving it time to conform to the bead of the wheel. The wheels are Velocity P35s (old Blunt 35s). 35mm outer. 30mm inner.

    Weight comes in at about 1000g per tire.

    Tires were not as loose on the wheels as I had thought. I did reach for spoons to get the last ⅛ of the tire in the wheel.

    Tires measure about 2.4" at the casing. Measure about 2.7" when measuring knobs.

    Profile is fairly round. I think this will help with them being pretty speedy.

    The tire on the back of my Inbred is a 2.4" Mountain King (which measure at like 2.25" in reality). I originally had this tire on the front and a X-King in the rear. However, the X-King was fast but lacked in grip, so I had been wanting to move the Mountain King to the front and get a 29+ for the front for almost 9 months. Like I mentioned before. I'd rather have grip than speed if I am on single track. This bike sees 95% single track. I'm highly doubtful this tire would fit in the rear of my Inbred. The 2.4 Mountain King is a squeeze.

    I will update after some time to see if they 'grow'. But our trails will be trashed for quite a while.

    I can't ride it yet, but I'm stoked. It looks like it's going to be super fun. Sure it's not as big as the other 29+ bikes, but since I'm not on a true 29+ bike and have to run a standard 29x2.4 in the back, it won't look so 'mullet like'. I've also heard this will fit inside the Pike on my Salsa Horsethief. That could be interesting.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Surly Dirt Wizard 29+ actual measurements-img_6650.jpg  

    Surly Dirt Wizard 29+ actual measurements-img_6651.jpg  

    Surly Dirt Wizard 29+ actual measurements-img_6652.jpg  

    Surly Dirt Wizard 29+ actual measurements-img_6653.jpg  

    Surly Dirt Wizard 29+ actual measurements-img_6655.jpg  

    Surly Dirt Wizard 29+ actual measurements-img_6657.jpg  

    Surly Dirt Wizard 29+ actual measurements-img_6661.jpg  

    Last edited by maelstromwbc; 05-09-2015 at 06:56 PM.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnroyal;

    The tire should fit in a lot of 29er forks, especially on a 35 rim, but I agree that there aren't many (if any) "regular 29er" frames that will fit it in the back.
    If the DW is narrower than a Knard it will fit in a Banshee Phantom - albeit with the slightly longer 650b drops. I ran a Knard on my Phantom briefly this spring. Rim was a 35mm Derby.


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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    Aren't tires bad after a blow off, at least for tubeless use? Bummer, considering it cost more than 35.
    If it blew off during install it wasn't seated correctly. I've had that happen then reinstall the tire and ride it happily for the rest of its life.

    As with all things that can kill you on your bike you need to use your own eyeballs and look at the part in question so you can decide what to do.

    I wouldn't ride a tire I didn't trust 100% on the front wheel. I'll take more of a chance on the rear wheel.
    Safe riding,

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    Is the recommended 35mm rim width for these tires based on inner or outer diameter?


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    Quote Originally Posted by sirsam84 View Post
    Is the recommended 35mm rim width for these tires based on inner or outer diameter?


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    35mm is the outer width.
    Safe riding,

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    Well, this is interesting. Quoting myself here...

    Quote Originally Posted by iamkeith View Post
    I'm not sure there's any "there" there. I believe Surly always said that the casing of the DW would be 2.75" - smaller than the Knard - and that the 3" would only be measured at the knobs. ...
    ... I guess I should eat my words. I just remembered and re-read this October 8th blog entry from Surly which, in part, said:

    "When we first talked about the tire, the plan was to use the same idea as we did for the DW 26+. Make it a 2.75” instead of a three and that way it would fit in folk’s sus-forks. Then the more we talked about this, and looked at 3D models in our computers, and noticed that some other folks are coming out with some pretty wide tires that are only a few millimeters smaller than a 29x2.75” would be, and argued and argued and argued with each other. The decision was made to make it a 3” tire."

    So it was going to be a 2.75, but then it was going to be a 3.0, but then ended up actually being something like a 2.8... but labeled as a 3.0. All is good in the end, I suppose, and that blog does give some insight into all of the brainstorming and brain damage that goes into developing something like this.

    More relevant though is that it might be impossible to even know for sure if the pre-production samples, that @mikesee has been using, actually correlate to the final production units. Based on the measurement reports we're seeing in this thread though, it sounds close?

    Here's my wish though (in case you're reading, Surly guys)":

    In the same way you made the Knard in a few different sizes, how about making the Dirt Wizard in the following "labeled" sizes?:

    - 29 x 3.0
    - 29 x 2.75
    - 29 x 2.25

    That ought to give just about everyone a way to max out both the front AND rear of their bikes with this glorious rubber!
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubba13 View Post
    This doesn't sound promising to me, especially as a front tire. There was no way my 27tpi Knards would have set up tubeless on my Dually's without building the bead up or going split tube. Has anyone else had this experience with the DW?

    Thanks for the info!
    The upside is that I rode the sh!t out of it this weekend without a single issue.

  53. #53
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    After a weekend of riding, the outer knob width of the DW on a 45mm/50mm rim is now 2.96" and growing.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by yogiprophet View Post
    After a weekend of riding, the outer knob width of the DW on a 45mm/50mm rim is now 2.96" and growing.....
    Tubeless?
    "I ride to clear my head, my head is clearer when I'm riding SS. Therefore, I choose to ride SS."~ Fullrange Drew

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    Quote Originally Posted by yogiprophet View Post
    After a weekend of riding, the outer knob width of the DW on a 45mm/50mm rim is now 2.96" and growing.....
    These tires stretch. That's why I don't get excited about measurements when they are new. Given how tight some of the forks/rear triangles are these 29+ tires are getting used in Surly was smart to undersize them new so they still fit after a few rides.
    Safe riding,

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  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by nitrousjunky View Post
    Tubeless?
    Yes

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    I have about 6 hours of riding the DW (I know this is a very limited amount of time) on everything from hard packed (at Phil's World) and loose rock and soil, rock drops (in Albuquerque).
    I have it only in the front of an XL 2013 Scott Genius with a 110mm Lefty and 140mm rear travel.
    To start with, I have been riding mountain bikes for 20 years this spring and this bike fits me and my style of riding better than any other to date. I absolutely love this bike! I built this bike up from the frame and wanted a light bike that I could ride hard which is why I put on the lefty with 120mm travel. The BB was too low so I decided to put on a 10mm longer shock (which added about 10mm of travel) and the front wheel/tire from the Krampus which had a newly installed Vidar. I really liked it so I build up a carbon wheelset for it with a 29+ front. I was hoping the DW would be slim enough to fit the Lefty without offsetting the wheel, but since it is growing I had to move it about 2mm. I had to put in a 10mm spacer to accommodate the extra height of the 29+ tire bringing it down to 110mm.
    The tire is tubeless with a 45mm ID and 50mm OD. The rear is 31.2mm ID and 38mm OD with a 2.4 Mountain King. Am hoping tire makers will make tires to work with wider rims because the casing is quite a bit wider than the outer knobs on the MK.
    On with the DW. I have been running 18ppsi as I feel safer at speed and it seems to work great with drops and such. As one would expect, the tire does not at all shine on hard pack. It just wasn't a great tire at Phil's. I was slipping a little and with a tire like the Chupa or the Vidar I'm used to, it would have stuck like glue. In Albuquerque east mountains, the DW was in its element. I was flying through loose corners and we have so much loose rocks. With the DW's knob pattern and size, I would have expected this performance.
    What I want to add to this is that having a 29+ tire on the front increases high speed performance and therefore confidence in cornering, braking and drops. The steeper it gets the faster I am in comparison to skinnier tires. I love the added float, traction, braking performance in the front. The only thing I miss not having a 29+ in the rear is being able to climb sick technical stuff, but other than that a 2.4 on a wide rime works great and there is lower rolling resistance on climbs which is nice.
    There is a lot of commotion about the 27.5+ but I would not want to give up having a 29+ front. If I was looking at a new Enduro bike, I think having a 27.5+ rear tied to a 29+ front would kick ass, but I am unusual in that I hate too much travel in the front....do not like the severe geometry changes under downhill braking.

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    Experience with the Dirt Wizard so far has been good except for some burping at 13psi on my last ride. In my case I am running the 120tpi Dirt Wizard on a Velocity Dually rim. Setting the tire up on the Dually tubeless was easy, but the fit is not as tight as I would like. By comparison, the Maxxis Chronicle TR front/rear, has not burped at all with pressures as low as 12psi on the same rims.

    Hoping a layer of tape on the rim bead will cure the burping issue with this rim. I would like to keep the tire pressure around 13 because it has good damping effect. At higher pressures the DW tends to deflect off of small trail chatter, but not to the point of being unpredictable.

    In terms of performance I really like the Dirt Wizard for wet or dry riding. It feels like a normal 29er tire without any odd steering feedback that I have experienced with other 29+ tires at low pressure. Rolling resistance as a front tire has been better than expected on all surfaces. Braking traction is off the charts. Tire size is perfect for those of us with clearance issues.

    So the only disappointment so far has been tubeless performance with the Dually rim. To Surly's credit, they do not make any claims about the DW being tubeless ready. For all the time it took to get the DW released, too bad it they did not take the extra step to a true tubeless ready tire. It is also possible other rims could work better with the Dirt Wizard.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Surly Dirt Wizard 29+ actual measurements-001.jpg  

    Surly Dirt Wizard 29+ actual measurements-002.jpg  

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  59. #59
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    Mine was a little loose even with a thin layer of tubeless tape. Maybe something a little thicker would be better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yogiprophet View Post
    The height mounted on a 45mm/50mm (inner/outer) rim is about 29-3/4"
    Any chance you can check this measurement again now that they have stretched? Man this is ohhh so close to possibly working in the rear of my Puffin.
    "I ride to clear my head, my head is clearer when I'm riding SS. Therefore, I choose to ride SS."~ Fullrange Drew

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    Got 2 rides on the Lunchbox with the Dirt Wizard on the front this weekend. I really like how it goes through the rock gardens compared to the Minion DHF 2.5, the cornering is really good once it is leaned over enough but it is not as smooth a transition as the DHF. Just after the 2 rides I will be keeping this tire on the front from now on as it checks all the boxes for the riding I do. I look forward to going to Highlands soon to see how it does on all the brake bumps.

    -Nolan

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by nitrousjunky View Post
    Any chance you can check this measurement again now that they have stretched? Man this is ohhh so close to possibly working in the rear of my Puffin.
    I forgot to re-measure the width but I did the height again and it did not change at all - still 29-3/4" exactly. Since it is a close call you should know I put the wheel/tire against the wall and marked it with a level then measured the height of that line so it is an accurate measurement. Will do the width again and edit this post later.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogiprophet View Post
    I forgot to re-measure the width but I did the height again and it did not change at all - still 29-3/4" exactly. Since it is a close call you should know I put the wheel/tire against the wall and marked it with a level then measured the height of that line so it is an accurate measurement. Will do the width again and edit this post later.
    Cool, much appreciated!
    "I ride to clear my head, my head is clearer when I'm riding SS. Therefore, I choose to ride SS."~ Fullrange Drew

  64. #64
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    Are you guys getting these online? All I'm seeing is the 26".

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    Quote Originally Posted by SyT View Post
    Are you guys getting these online? All I'm seeing is the 26".
    I think Treefort still has a few left but most every other online source is already sold out of them. QBP only had them in stock for about a week.

    Being a Surly product, they could have bunches more coming tomorrow or it could be 6 months before we see any more of them.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolan17 View Post
    Got 2 rides on the Lunchbox with the Dirt Wizard on the front this weekend. I really like how it goes through the rock gardens compared to the Minion DHF 2.5, the cornering is really good once it is leaned over enough but it is not as smooth a transition as the DHF. Just after the 2 rides I will be keeping this tire on the front from now on as it checks all the boxes for the riding I do. I look forward to going to Highlands soon to see how it does on all the brake bumps.

    -Nolan
    What width of rim?

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    Mikesee, you said these for a 29 pike...is that the 3.0 version?


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    Should say fit....


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    Only DW's I've seen are 3.0's in width. They're a class B fit in a Pike--NO mud clearance. But if you're not going muddin' then there's enough room in there.

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    Cool thanks! I might have to try a 29+ front, 27.5+ rear on my Ventana Captain Zeus...


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  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by nitrousjunky View Post
    Any chance you can check this measurement again now that they have stretched? Man this is ohhh so close to possibly working in the rear of my Puffin.
    After a few rides and over a week mounted, I am getting 29 7/8" O.D. for the DW at 14psi on a Dually rim.

    After some burping on a trail ride I added a layer of Gorilla Tape to the Dually and re-installed the DW. This time there was an audible pop as the tire bead set. No burping on today's ride at 14psi. Fingers crossed...
    Last edited by bubba13; 05-21-2015 at 08:10 AM.
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  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubba13 View Post
    After a few rides and over a week mounted, I am getting 29 7/8" O.D. for the DW at 14psi on a Dually rim.
    Yeah that's probably too large diameter for me, guess the Puffin just won't work 29+. Going to measure again just to make sure though.
    "I ride to clear my head, my head is clearer when I'm riding SS. Therefore, I choose to ride SS."~ Fullrange Drew

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    Found a set of DW 29, full retail, but at least I got them for the summer

    Now for some wheels, Onyx Racing and Scrapers

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by nitrousjunky View Post
    Cool, much appreciated!
    Sorry to post this so late. I re-measured the width and it hardly grew at all. It is now 2.97" at max knob which I think it will end up right around here. So, it looks to be a 3" tire after all on a 50mm rim.

  75. #75
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    Cool, good to hear there!
    "I ride to clear my head, my head is clearer when I'm riding SS. Therefore, I choose to ride SS."~ Fullrange Drew

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubba13 View Post
    So the only disappointment so far has been tubeless performance with the Dually rim. To Surly's credit, they do not make any claims about the DW being tubeless ready. For all the time it took to get the DW released, too bad it they did not take the extra step to a true tubeless ready tire. It is also possible other rims could work better with the Dirt Wizard.
    Point that finger the other way--at Velocity. That rim isn't remotely tubeless ready, as evidenced by all of the people burping them (even with TLR tires) when pressures get low.

    I *like* the Dually, I just think it's a crime that Velocity continues to call their rims TLR when they aren't remotely close to meeting that designation.

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    I put a dirt wizard on a Hugo rim tubeless. It set up incredibly easy (thanks to the rim for sure) and haven't had any problems so far. Also, for those that are curious the dirt wizard on Hugo fits the MRP stage with plenty of room. More room than my tubeless Knard.

    Surly Dirt Wizard 29+ actual measurements-img_20150521_170925.jpg
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Surly Dirt Wizard 29+ actual measurements-img_20150521_170933.jpg  

    Last edited by dcalabrese22; 05-27-2015 at 07:53 AM. Reason: added picture

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    Quote Originally Posted by jnroyal View Post
    I think Treefort still has a few left but most every other online source is already sold out of them. QBP only had them in stock for about a week.

    Being a Surly product, they could have bunches more coming tomorrow or it could be 6 months before we see any more of them.
    I've got 6 left here in 29".

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Point that finger the other way--at Velocity. That rim isn't remotely tubeless ready, as evidenced by all of the people burping them (even with TLR tires) when pressures get low.

    I *like* the Dually, I just think it's a crime that Velocity continues to call their rims TLR when they aren't remotely close to meeting that designation.
    I agree with you on the Dually not being a good choice for tubeless use. My point was compared to the Chronicle TR, the Dirt Wizard is not as stout in terms of being set up tubeless. It would have been great if Surly offered the DW with an official TR design.
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    I got a couple on order elsewhere, sorry I didn't see you had some in stock. Next time.
    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    I've got 6 left here in 29".

  81. #81
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    if it helps anyone with velocity rims, i cut a thin strip of gorilla tape and 'made' a small bead seat 'edge' on a P35. worked well for the brief time i used the rim and was easy to do.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/drj0n/15396280399/

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    bit.ly/BuyDeWidget

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    Quote Originally Posted by dcalabrese22 View Post
    I put a dirt wizard on a Hugo rim tubeless. It set up incredibly easy (thanks to the rim for sure) and haven't had any problems so far. Also, for those that are curious the dirt wizard on Hugo fits the MRP stage with plenty of room. More room than my tubeless Knard.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I think you have these on backwards. FYI

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    I ordered a DW for the front (will also see if it fits in the rear, but I doubt it will). I've got 30mm internal width carbon hookless rims. I don't know if this will even fit in my fork either, so I'll just have to see how it goes and hope for the best. If not, not sure if I'll try and sell it or keep it until I have a setup that works with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nolan17 View Post
    I think you have these on backwards. FYI

    -Nolan
    I looked and looked for arrows on the sidewall, but didn't see any. So I looked at the tread and because I wanted the most grip I figured that with the inside knobs pointing down that would do the trick. I haven't had any problems so far, but with how similar it is if the tread was going the opposite way I doubt I would see any. Curios though, what makes the other way the correct way?

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcalabrese22 View Post
    I looked and looked for arrows on the sidewall, but didn't see any. So I looked at the tread and because I wanted the most grip I figured that with the inside knobs pointing down that would do the trick. I haven't had any problems so far, but with how similar it is if the tread was going the opposite way I doubt I would see any. Curios though, what makes the other way the correct way?
    You want the ramped side of the center lugs to the front, not the square side.
    "I ride to clear my head, my head is clearer when I'm riding SS. Therefore, I choose to ride SS."~ Fullrange Drew

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    Quote Originally Posted by nitrousjunky View Post
    You want the ramped side of the center lugs to the front, not the square side.

    I switched it around. Thanks for pointing it out!

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    2.84 inches on a P35 after two weeks and a couple long rides.

    Vastly better than the Knard or Vidar on the front. Riding in the sandy, rocky, southwest without much mud.

    Though I still wish it were a genuine 3.0, I'll be buying more. Unless that Duro Crux 3.25 makes it stateside

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    Got my 29 Wizards last night, I'm still building the tandem wheels, so I threw one on a muni wheel with a Blunt 35, inflated to 20psi and it's close to 3" wide.

    The tread is much burlier in person, kinda' like an Ardent on roids. The sidewall is similar in feel to an Ardent EXO, though I don't imagine it's as tear resistant. They are certainly more burly than a Knard.

    I test fit them in my Mutz and it's tight at the arches, I got maybe a big 1/4", hopefully that'll flatten out a bit on the Scrapers.

    Anyone on the fence about 29+ who wants a "real man's tire", the Dirt Wizard is what you're looking for

  89. #89
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    Good job! Sweet Enduro Bike

    Just built a 50mm front wheel for the Tallboy LT. Picture shows the Dirt Wizard in a 2012 chassis Fox 34. You can't tell by the picture but the amount of clearance is the same all around. I filed 2-3mm from the bottom of the arch just in the center.

    I said it once and I'll say it again. The DW is a friggin' star in loose conditions. I used to somewhat avoid loose trails, but now I am seeking them out. The amount of traction in loose soil is amazing and about as good as other conditions. I am coming off of a Bontrager XR4 and it was great and just as good or better than the DW in many conditions. The only other condition that the DW shines over it besides loose is chunk but that is just as much it being a 29+ than anything else.

    One more thing - Even though the sidewalls are pretty flimsy, the DW has the advantage over other 29+ tires in that the sidewalls are pretty well protected by the large overhanging outer knobs. I don't have any marks on the sidewalls yet that I normally would have by now from rocks and such.

    Overall Super Fun tire in the front and fun is what it's all about.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Surly Dirt Wizard 29+ actual measurements-dirt-wizard-fox-34-resized.jpg  

    Surly Dirt Wizard 29+ actual measurements-tallboty-lt-resize.jpg  


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    Sounds like the DW is settling out to be about 29 3/4-29-7/8" diameter. Do any of you guys have a 29" Minion DHF 2.5 that you can measure the diameter of to compare to the DW diameter?
    "I ride to clear my head, my head is clearer when I'm riding SS. Therefore, I choose to ride SS."~ Fullrange Drew

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    I'm not sure burping alone is a reason to call a rim and/or tire a poor tubeless set up. I have burped all of my TLR tires on various TLR rims, none has ever been non burping unless I didn't ride it hard.

    I do think some rims and tires are more resistant to burping, but what that generally implies is that the tire has a stiffer sidewall (heavy) and/or the rim has a flatter interior profile and taller sidewalls (uncommon).

    A tighter fitting tire certainly improves burping, but only if the rim has a flat profile, otherwise instead of burping, a tight fitting tire will move into the "V" and lose all pressure.

    We do need a better system for defining TLR, the variation in rim and tire design makes finding a good fit a situation of trial and error.

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    To a point, I agree. Chupas and Knards and Chronicles have a lot of height, and as such they don't fall into 29" holes. But what they have in height they lack in grip, regardless of pressure, and that's where the DW really shines.

    I haven't cared much for any + tires at speed, but when the going is slow and rough they have numerous benefits over fat or 29".
    I found the limit of the DW yesterday when I was riding full speed downhill through a rock garden with some sharp edges. The sidewall ripped in 3 directions. It was quite sad to see. I love the float and traction but with sidewalls that thin going into something I wouldn't have thought twice with a tire like the Bontrager XR-4 is not going to happen with the DW. The DW works great until it doesn't at all. With this experience I am wondering if I made the right choice to go 29+ when what I was looking for was a tire that would allow me to bomb the hell out of sh!t like those rocks. I would be willing to deal with a little extra weight to have sidewall protection but nobody makes a 29+ with that option yet. And now with 27.5+ getting all the attention, not much is going into 29+.
    Hoping the Bomboloni is more durable and comes out soon.

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    The Maxxis Chronicle offers EXO on dual ply, so there is someone offering protection...
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    My dream for the near future is 36h King Hubs (w/ fun bolts) w/ Blunt35 and either DW or Chronicle up front w/ DW or 2.4" Ardent rear on my SS Karate Monkey.

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogiprophet View Post
    I found the limit of the DW yesterday when I was riding full speed downhill through a rock garden with some sharp edges. The sidewall ripped in 3 directions. It was quite sad to see. I love the float and traction but with sidewalls that thin going into something I wouldn't have thought twice with a tire like the Bontrager XR-4 is not going to happen with the DW. The DW works great until it doesn't at all. With this experience I am wondering if I made the right choice to go 29+ when what I was looking for was a tire that would allow me to bomb the hell out of sh!t like those rocks. I would be willing to deal with a little extra weight to have sidewall protection but nobody makes a 29+ with that option yet. And now with 27.5+ getting all the attention, not much is going into 29+.
    Hoping the Bomboloni is more durable and comes out soon.
    I've yet to rip one, but I can see it coming. The whole cornering issue is disappointing with the DW's as well. I'm unsure what pressure I ended up with on the last ride, but to get it stiff enough to not fold over in a decent cornering load situation, the bounce took all the fun out of it. If we can't get a tire with enough sidewall to support itself at reasonable pressures while cornering, (and still not weigh more than a suspension fork) I can't see much more of + sizing in my future.

  96. #96
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    The DW could be a much more capable tire if it had enough sidewall support to match its huge knobs. The knobs scream out push it to the limits while the sidewalls are pretty damn flimsy.

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    Measured my Ogre last night, it has 76,6mm of chainstay clearance for quite a good lenght. After seeing Ogres with Knards, Trax Fatties, Vidars and Fat B Nimbles, I'm starting to think the DW should fit ok

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    Quote Originally Posted by yogiprophet View Post
    I found the limit of the DW yesterday when I was riding full speed downhill through a rock garden with some sharp edges. The sidewall ripped in 3 directions. It was quite sad to see. I love the float and traction but with sidewalls that thin going into something I wouldn't have thought twice with a tire like the Bontrager XR-4 is not going to happen with the DW. The DW works great until it doesn't at all. With this experience I am wondering if I made the right choice to go 29+ when what I was looking for was a tire that would allow me to bomb the hell out of sh!t like those rocks. I would be willing to deal with a little extra weight to have sidewall protection but nobody makes a 29+ with that option yet. And now with 27.5+ getting all the attention, not much is going into 29+.
    Hoping the Bomboloni is more durable and comes out soon.
    Been riding a Bomboloni on my front for a week now. Have only ridden some 27tpi Knards
    and the Chupacabra. It's a little smaller in volume to the chupa but if you want a tougher sidewall and tire overall I think this is it. Been thinking of getting one for the back just to have the Bomber set up. You loose a little of the suppleness of the chupa with the thicker casing so it may not be as forgiving over roots and such.

    Had a hard time getting it to seat straight on my hugos (need to work on my tire mounting technique) but am running with no sealant as i don't see anything I ride puncturing this tire. If I do loose air I'll throw some sealant in then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    My dream for the near future is 36h King Hubs (w/ fun bolts) w/ Blunt35 and either DW or Chronicle up front w/ DW or 2.4" Ardent rear on my SS Karate Monkey.
    yup,i have my monkey set up on blunt 35's with an ardent 2.4 on the back and for now a 27 tpi knard up front,i have chronicles on my krampus and really like them but thinking of either a chupa for the front or a dirt wizard...probably pick up both tires since the dw might possibly squeeze into the rear on the blunts...
    Surly Dirt Wizard 29+ actual measurements-krunkey.jpg

  100. #100
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    We know these will fit in a Pike, has anyone tried one in a RCT3 Revelation (not sure how clearance compares between these 2 forks)?
    "I ride to clear my head, my head is clearer when I'm riding SS. Therefore, I choose to ride SS."~ Fullrange Drew

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Point that finger the other way--at Velocity. That rim isn't remotely tubeless ready, as evidenced by all of the people burping them (even with TLR tires) when pressures get low.

    I *like* the Dually, I just think it's a crime that Velocity continues to call their rims TLR when they aren't remotely close to meeting that designation.


    Borealis built me a set of Dually's that I run Chupacabar's on, tubeless, with zero issues. Bought them about 3-4 months ago I think. Is there a second, or updated version of these rims that fixed this issue? Between mine, and my riding partner (who is a big guy) we've never had any issue with the Dually's. Wondering if we are luck, or they fixed it? We run, on average about 13psi.

  102. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by litespeedaddict View Post
    Borealis built me a set of Dually's that I run Chupacabar's on, tubeless, with zero issues. Bought them about 3-4 months ago I think. Is there a second, or updated version of these rims that fixed this issue? Between mine, and my riding partner (who is a big guy) we've never had any issue with the Dually's. Wondering if we are luck, or they fixed it? We run, on average about 13psi.
    If they've changed the extrusion it's news to me. Every one I've built, in every diameter, lacks a bead shelf that would prevent burping.

    Dunno if you're lucky, charmed, or just paying roulette.

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    Thank you for taking the time to reply.

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    I've now put 80 miles of single track on my DW. Been too lazy to convert it to tubeless until 10 minutes ago.

    I used a CO2 cartridge as that's my best luck with mounting tubeless tires. Seems to work even better than air compressor, I guess it's because of the huge burst of air.... works great just expensive.

    I have been converting to Orange Seal on my other bikes because it does not dry out as fast in Colorado but I still had a 2oz tube of Stan's, ran out of Orange, so I just used the Stans. Probably a little less than I should use, but I always carry a tube so we'll see what happens. Stans will dry out in less than a month anyway, so I'll switch to Orange in a couple weeks.

    Wheel is Velocity P35s (old Blunts) 30mm internal with Stan's yellow tape and Stan's valve stems. (I like the Orange tape better but hate Orange valve stems). Got a bead set *pop* instantly.

    I don't know if it's "the right way" but I set up tubeless by using the CO2 without sealant to set the bead. Then I let all the CO2 out. Install sealant. Fill with air with floor pump. This method has worked best for me.

    120tpi casing
    2.55" at casing.
    2.88" at knob.

    The day I bought them, mounted with tubes they were 2.398" at casing and 2.695" at knob. (Surly Dirt Wizard 29+ actual measurements - Page 2- Mtbr.com)

    I don't think I will be riding this bike this weekend (maybe on Sunday), so we will see if there's any more growth just sitting with 30psi in the tire.

    I'be been nothing but impressed with the DW as a front tire, especially on a rigid. I don't run it low PSI like some. Sweet spot (for me) seems to be about 16 to 18 psi. It's a great tire for loose Colorado front range kitty litter (Buffalo Creek). I built the bike to ride with my fiancé who is new. Having a SS/rigid keeps us pretty even with her on my old FS 26" Turner 5.Spot. It's a lot of fun and it's more fun with serious grip in the front. Usually when I'm railing down Sandy Wash I have an *oh shit* moment or two cause it's so loose. Haven't had a single one of those near miss wash outs since installing the DW as compared to the 2.4 Mountain King that used to be in the front. I'm curious if it would fit on my FS 29er with a Pike up front and still have mud clearance (usually not an issue, but this year has been wet in CO)

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    DW didn't want to stay inflated with 2 oz of Stans and old yellow tape. Was completely flat the next morning

    I took it all apart and put in brand new Orange tape and 3-4 oz of Orange Seal. Tired of spending money on CO2 so back to just using air compressor to set bead.

    Got the beat set and put pressure at 35psi and it's still holding as of today.

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    glad to hear the dw makes a good front tire for rigid,been running a 27 tpi knard up front but it is a tad heavy on the karate monkey but i love the plushness compared to getting rattled to death by chunder and washboard but really want to shed some weight up front,sounds like the dw would be a good choice

  107. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by maelstromwbc View Post
    DW didn't want to stay inflated with 2 oz of Stans and old yellow tape. Was completely flat the next morning

    I took it all apart and put in brand new Orange tape and 3-4 oz of Orange Seal. Tired of spending money on CO2 so back to just using air compressor to set bead.

    Got the beat set and put pressure at 35psi and it's still holding as of today.
    That volume of Stan's would've done the trick too - bigger tires likely need more goo.

  108. #108
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    I've ridden it a few times now on my E29 with a Pike and despite high expectations based on Mikesee's review, I'm not a fan. Compared to a 2.3 Butcher the DW adds more suspension and an element of invincibility. Line choice on difficult terrain didn't seem critical which was strange. You would think that would be good but I guess I prefer precision. I ran it at 12 to 14psi.
    The 2.3 Butcher has better ultimate cornering traction and confidence for me, I think it's a great tire. Maybe I'd like the DW more on a wider rim than my 40mm Nextie because it has a very rounded profile. The gap from the center knobs to the side knobs is really big which with the rounded profile make the side knobs hard to get to.
    I'm not sure if this means I don't like 29+ or + or just this tire. Mine was 6mm wider and 10 mm taller than the Butcher at the casing on the same rim, then it grew 2 more mm to be 66mm wide at the casing. Tubeless was no problems with Orange seal.
    2 wheels

  109. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by artnshel View Post
    I've ridden it a few times now
    Thanks for checking in and sharing your experience.

    Your experience reminds me that anywhere where speed (like, faster than a dead run) was present, I didn't/don't care for the DW as much as my go-to Maxxis Minion DHF 2.5.

    Bring the speeds back down to slow--like walking pace--and I vastly prefer the DW.

  110. #110
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    Yep, agree with all that. Disappointed it took as much $$ to figure out as it did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hamsterspam View Post
    glad to hear the dw makes a good front tire for rigid,been running a 27 tpi knard up front but it is a tad heavy on the karate monkey but i love the plushness compared to getting rattled to death by chunder and washboard but really want to shed some weight up front,sounds like the dw would be a good choice
    You could do the unthinkable and put in a piece of plastic in place of the stock fork. It would shave weight on the front end.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matterhorn View Post
    You could do the unthinkable and put in a piece of plastic in place of the stock fork. It would shave weight on the front end.
    but then it wouldnt be un-rideably heavy!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SyT View Post
    I've yet to rip one, but I can see it coming. The whole cornering issue is disappointing with the DW's as well. I'm unsure what pressure I ended up with on the last ride, but to get it stiff enough to not fold over in a decent cornering load situation, the bounce took all the fun out of it. If we can't get a tire with enough sidewall to support itself at reasonable pressures while cornering, (and still not weigh more than a suspension fork) I can't see much more of + sizing in my future.
    Agreed. I am struggling with this with the Chronicle. For single track at reasonable speeds low psi is great. To ride in on a flow trail with jumps I end up at 16 psi in the rear and 14 in front to stop roll. I mean I am a big guy. 255. And I have only had occasional burps. Dually in the front and RH in the back. I know they tried to keep it light but then have the teeth. I am curios if I will eventually want smaller less likely to roll tire in the back. I am running a fox 32 talas with a little bit of the lowers trimmed and a "custom" travel stop on the upper. I am starting to wonder if adding a tube would actually increase the structure and hence the support under load in cornering.

  114. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by xophere View Post
    Agreed. I am struggling with this with the Chronicle. For single track at reasonable speeds low psi is great. To ride in on a flow trail with jumps I end up at 16 psi in the rear and 14 in front to stop roll. I mean I am a big guy. 255. And I have only had occasional burps. Dually in the front and RH in the back. I know they tried to keep it light but then have the teeth. I am curios if I will eventually want smaller less likely to roll tire in the back. I am running a fox 32 talas with a little bit of the lowers trimmed and a "custom" travel stop on the upper. I am starting to wonder if adding a tube would actually increase the structure and hence the support under load in cornering.
    You're running 3" tires at low pressures on rims that weren't meant to be used tubeless? Why would you expect them not to burp?

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    They haven't burped. The only burps I had were early on with a Knard on the stock setup. And once during a crash where though the tire lost air it held and road me home just fine. I have not had the problems people have been having with the dually. And I am not complain about the burp.

    I am complainnig about the roll under very high load in banked turns if I am not exactly positioned right and sometime under hard landings. Generally I am very happy. Though I am finding to get the performance the tire is enabling I have to increase the PSI and then I loose some of the traction and supplness that made the platform so great. For XC this is simply not an issue for me. Only on groomed high speed flow courses. Which may not be the right place for this combo and my body mass. But I only want one bike so there it is.

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    I think in the end the dual chamber design might be the ticket to reasonable weight and low pressure. Or I could just loose 50lbs and that would probably have it sorted. To be clear the Chronicles where much harder at the same PSI then the Knards. I am not sure I would have liked them before the fork change over. I did ride them that way for a few months but I always felt more beat up. That said the tires are allowing more speed so this could also be the cause not the quality of the tire but simply they are allowing me to push my limits and hence I am getting beat up more. Too many variables. I wish fat-bike.com would up date the sheet they had with the tires and the ratings for 29+ and compare the weight of the DW and the Chronicle. I am still curious about the chupa.

  117. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by xophere View Post
    They haven't burped. The only burps I had were early on with a Knard on the stock setup. And once during a crash where though the tire lost air it held and road me home just fine. I have not had the problems people have been having with the dually. And I am not complain about the burp.

    I am complainnig about the roll under very high load in banked turns if I am not exactly positioned right and sometime under hard landings. Generally I am very happy. Though I am finding to get the performance the tire is enabling I have to increase the PSI and then I loose some of the traction and supplness that made the platform so great. For XC this is simply not an issue for me. Only on groomed high speed flow courses. Which may not be the right place for this combo and my body mass. But I only want one bike so there it is.
    Gotcha--I misunderstood what you were agreeing with, with the other poster.

    The only way to add stability to a tire is to add weight to it. The most vocal people out there are typically weight weenies, whipping each other into an 'it's-too-heavy' froth and making tire manufacturers leery of doing what the least vocal people (the ones that put away their scales and *ride* their bikes) are after.

    The upshot is that Surly has at least one more iteration of the DW up their sleeve, and possibly two. At least one of them will feature a beefier casing and softer compound. I've been riding several prototypes of these (no, I have no idea what final production spec will be, nor when they will arrive) and they are nothing like any of the other 29+ tires currently available. In other words they are beefy and grippy beyond compare. I'm ~200# with pack and kit, and I run mine at 10 to 11psi up front and 14 to 14.5 psi out back. 30mm (inside) rims, no burping, no squirming.

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    Yes that sounds great. Sticky, big nobs, strong sidewalls and I will switch no question. The bike just pushes me to get myself into more trouble. In the best way. I am sure the Chronicles would be perfect for me two years ago. Now I want more.

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    I was really liking this tire for the first few weeks as it rolled over everything and the cornering was decent. I have had many punctures in which the Stans couldn't plug up, even with glitter and sawdust mixed in. To resolve this I had to remove the tire, wipe out the Stans, and applied gorilla tape with a heat gun. I am quite hard on tires and am a big guy (6'9" 240 with gear) and also live in rock/root filled New England. The only tire that has held up for me is the Minion 2.5 2 ply. Using the DW on the front has been good for the most part and I will continue to use it, but as soon as the plus size Minions come out I will jump on them.

    -Nolan

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    Quote Originally Posted by nolan17 View Post
    I was really liking this tire for the first few weeks as it rolled over everything and the cornering was decent. I have had many punctures in which the Stans couldn't plug up, even with glitter and sawdust mixed in. To resolve this I had to remove the tire, wipe out the Stans, and applied gorilla tape with a heat gun. I am quite hard on tires and am a big guy (6'9" 240 with gear) and also live in rock/root filled New England. The only tire that has held up for me is the Minion 2.5 2 ply. Using the DW on the front has been good for the most part and I will continue to use it, but as soon as the plus size Minions come out I will jump on them.

    -Nolan
    Which rim are you running it on?

    I ask because, to a man, the (local) people that have said they didn't like the cornering were running it on skinny (~25mm) rims. I think DW needs a minimum of a 40mm rim to square off the casing and put the edge knobs where they were intended to be.

  121. #121
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    Or the Traxx Fatty!?....

    Vee Traxx Fatty 3.25 on B+ carbon 50mm rim (43mm internal) at about 15 psi:

    3.20 inches wide- tires still fairly new with around 60 miles

    29 1/8 inches high - tubeless
    17 Fuel EX 9.9 (in progress)
    19 FM 279 carbon gravel
    17 Stache 29+
    14 GT Zaskar 100 9r

    https://kettleheadbrewing.com/

  122. #122
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    I'm fussing with pressure on the DW. Front has been sorted by feel. Will know specifics when I get that fancy gauge mikesee recommended. Rear has been hit and miss - I can feel the transition to the side knobs. Have gotten a little washout on loose trail.

    DW on WTB Scrapers, tubeless.
    Dented the front on the first ride. Was running a nice pressure by feel but hammered a root when lofting over another root. Rocks, roots, etc. common here. I'm no lightweight. 210 + gear now. Typically sub 200 but it's been a weird year.

    I do miss the volume of the Knard on the rabbit hole. Those have stayed mounted split tube to the rohloff and dyno wheels for bikepacking duty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Which rim are you running it on?

    I ask because, to a man, the (local) people that have said they didn't like the cornering were running it on skinny (~25mm) rims. I think DW needs a minimum of a 40mm rim to square off the casing and put the edge knobs where they were intended to be.
    I am running it on a Derby 35mm rim, I agree that the rim could be a little wider. But I then worry about the sidewall getting hit by rocks as the side knobs seem to protect/prevent anything from hitting the sidewalls. I would like to try the new Derby 40mm rim with a true 3.0 in the future. I think my extremely high center of gravity really works the side knobs to where they almost roll over eachother then begin to washout. Just need to find the right balance of tire size, rim width, and tire pressure.

    -Nolan

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    Quote Originally Posted by litespeedaddict View Post
    Borealis built me a set of Dually's that I run Chupacabar's on, tubeless, with zero issues. Bought them about 3-4 months ago I think. Is there a second, or updated version of these rims that fixed this issue? Between mine, and my riding partner (who is a big guy) we've never had any issue with the Dually's. Wondering if we are luck, or they fixed it? We run, on average about 13psi.
    What is your setup like for tubeless? I'm wanting to try it but not sure to start with my setup (Dually 45 with Chupacabras)

  125. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by xophere View Post
    ...... I mean I am a big guy. 255. .... I am running a fox 32 talas ....
    I'm in similar weight category and have recently upgraded my fox 32 to MRP Stage. The difference in cornering is huge. Fox 32 is wobbly as a noodle, specially at high speeds. MRP Stage is much stiffer and allows me to do a lot more.

    IMO Fox 32 is for light riders and for XC only.

  126. #126
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    You're comparing apples and oranges, a 3" tire is not going to be better than a 2.3" tire in all conditions, they each have their own range of ideal uses.

    You do make a good point about rim width, a narrow rim works well with a narrow tire, but if you want a similar comparison you need to increase rim width when you increase tire width. I run a Scraper 45mm id on my DW's.

    I think the DW 29 is a great tire, I would not say that going fatter makes a tire more precise, likely the opposite, but then my uses demand a burly tire that can take a hit; tandems off road are not precision machines by any stretch

    Know what you want and know what you're getting before going fatter. Fatter is less precise, fatter is heavier, fatter is slower BUT fatter is more accommodating where lines are less precise, provide more traction on loose and irregular surfaces, and they provide more suspension.

    Quote Originally Posted by artnshel View Post
    I've ridden it a few times now on my E29 with a Pike and despite high expectations based on Mikesee's review, I'm not a fan. Compared to a 2.3 Butcher the DW adds more suspension and an element of invincibility. Line choice on difficult terrain didn't seem critical which was strange. You would think that would be good but I guess I prefer precision. I ran it at 12 to 14psi.
    The 2.3 Butcher has better ultimate cornering traction and confidence for me, I think it's a great tire. Maybe I'd like the DW more on a wider rim than my 40mm Nextie because it has a very rounded profile. The gap from the center knobs to the side knobs is really big which with the rounded profile make the side knobs hard to get to.
    I'm not sure if this means I don't like 29+ or + or just this tire. Mine was 6mm wider and 10 mm taller than the Butcher at the casing on the same rim, then it grew 2 more mm to be 66mm wide at the casing. Tubeless was no problems with Orange seal.

  127. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Know what you want and know what you're getting before going fatter. Fatter is less precise, fatter is heavier, fatter is slower BUT fatter is more accommodating where lines are less precise, provide more traction on loose and irregular surfaces, and they provide more suspension.
    I think a lot of confusion stems from the fact that + and fat stuff is being marketed as a magic bullet, and that is being propagated by new(er) riders that don't have a wide base of experience to know what they're getting/how it compares. Which is my way of saying that your advice above is sound and I wish more people would heed it before dropping $$$$ that they might not have to spend, or that could be put to better use.

  128. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolan17 View Post
    I am running it on a Derby 35mm rim, I agree that the rim could be a little wider. But I then worry about the sidewall getting hit by rocks as the side knobs seem to protect/prevent anything from hitting the sidewalls. I would like to try the new Derby 40mm rim with a true 3.0 in the future. I think my extremely high center of gravity really works the side knobs to where they almost roll over eachother then begin to washout. Just need to find the right balance of tire size, rim width, and tire pressure.

    -Nolan
    If you have a wider rim to try, do. I've run mine on 35, 40, 45, and 50mm rims. 50mm definitely gives the most traction/predictability by squaring off the casing and putting the edge knobs in a place where they can be more effective.

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    Has anyone compared sidewall / casing support of of the 120 vs 27 tpi versions? The 120's I felt seemed pretty thin... any chance some of the extra weight of the 27 yields a stouter feel? (or greater durability?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodsy View Post
    Has anyone compared sidewall / casing support of of the 120 vs 27 tpi versions? The 120's I felt seemed pretty thin... any chance some of the extra weight of the 27 yields a stouter feel? (or greater durability?)
    There is no 27tpi version of the DW in 29".

    Rest assured that if there was, someone would post here about how it was sooooooo much heavier than the 120-tpi as to not be worth it--too heavy to lift their bike onto their car kinda thing, even if it was a 60g difference.

    And then 90% of the sheeple here would parrot that line without ever having tried either version. "Just too heavy. Just say no'".

    There are burlier, more reinforced casings of the DW coming. Don't tell the sheeple.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    There is no 27tpi version of the DW in 29".

    Rest assured that if there was, someone would post here about how it was sooooooo much heavier than the 120-tpi as to not be worth it--too heavy to lift their bike onto their car kinda thing, even if it was a 60g difference.

    And then 90% of the sheeple here would parrot that line without ever having tried either version. "Just too heavy. Just say no'".

    There are burlier, more reinforced casings of the DW coming. Don't tell the sheeple.
    Thanks Mike! Got to this thread via search function... forgot it was 29 specific, where I'm looking at 26". Don't suppose there'll be any casing update for that size? Or if my above question applies?

  132. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    There is no 27tpi version of the DW in 29".

    Rest assured that if there was, someone would post here about how it was sooooooo much heavier than the 120-tpi as to not be worth it--too heavy to lift their bike onto their car kinda thing, even if it was a 60g difference.

    And then 90% of the sheeple here would parrot that line without ever having tried either version. "Just too heavy. Just say no'".

    There are burlier, more reinforced casings of the DW coming. Don't tell the sheeple.
    Perhaps I'll wait a bit before jumping ship.

  133. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    There are burlier, more reinforced casings of the DW coming. Don't tell the sheeple.
    This is great to hear!
    "I ride to clear my head, my head is clearer when I'm riding SS. Therefore, I choose to ride SS."~ Fullrange Drew

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    Okay, not being a sheeple here, but is there really a burlier version in the works?

    I don't think the DW 29 is all that wimpy to begin with, we ride it on a tandem and it seems to support our weight as well or better than the Ardent 2.4 EXO and the Trax Fatty 650 x 3.25.

    I could see having a DW with a more burley casing so I can run lower pressure, but I wouldn't commit seppuku if I had to continue on the current DW

    I'd like to see Surly swallow their pride and put the DW out as a 650b+

    27tpi vs 72tpi vs 120 tpi, we're really just talking about threads vs rubber, for the most part a highweave casing is lighter and more expensive. Rubber is heavy and cheap. If high TPI casing meant more durability, ie EXO or Snakeskin, then high TPI would "always" be a great thing, BUT that's not always the case.

    Rubber is relaly good at being rubbery, it is more resilent than casing and it is tougher than casing (unless we're talking reinforced). When I played around with the early Larry 27tpi, I found it to be a lot burlier than the Larry 120tpi, same goes for the early Knard. In other words, heavy and rubbery is not always a bad thing.

    For every person asking for more durable tires, there's a line of folks wanting them to be lighter and less expensive, seriously, ya all just need to deal with dis shite!!

    Oh, and I recently got some hard to acquire Specialized Ground Control 650 x 3", at 970/990 gms it's not particularly light or burly, but it's not expensive and it's a nice tire, just saying...

    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    There is no 27tpi version of the DW in 29".

    Rest assured that if there was, someone would post here about how it was sooooooo much heavier than the 120-tpi as to not be worth it--too heavy to lift their bike onto their car kinda thing, even if it was a 60g difference.

    And then 90% of the sheeple here would parrot that line without ever having tried either version. "Just too heavy. Just say no'".

    There are burlier, more reinforced casings of the DW coming. Don't tell the sheeple.

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    Dude, 26" is dead, it's not your fault, the sheeple spoke and the rest is history.

    I too would love to see some 26+ tires, but I get the feeling that Surly threw the crowd a bone with he 26" DW and no one bit, that the idea went away quietly...

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodsy View Post
    Thanks Mike! Got to this thread via search function... forgot it was 29 specific, where I'm looking at 26". Don't suppose there'll be any casing update for that size? Or if my above question applies?

  136. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Fatter is less precise, fatter is heavier, fatter is slower BUT fatter is more accommodating where lines are less precise, provide more traction on loose and irregular surfaces, and they provide more suspension.
    Fatter is also more fun much of the time - fun wins.

  137. #137
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    here's some pics of the DW on a P35. not sure what order the pics are going to embed so apply descriptions appropriately . one pic is of the Salsa Cromoto 29+, the taller version with 15mm thru axle. plenty of clearance, a knard also fit easily. the other pic is on a soon to be installed 140mm Magura TS8. top clearance is very good, side clearance is really good as well, just a hard to get pic
    Surly Dirt Wizard 29+ actual measurements-magu2.jpgSurly Dirt Wizard 29+ actual measurements-salsa2.jpg

  138. #138
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    I just noticed there is a 60 tpi kevlar bead 29x3 Dirt Wizard listed on Surly's website. 1070g vs. 850g for the 120 tpi. Should make a stellar rear tire.
    Portland Off Road Navagators

  139. #139
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    just picked up a dirt wizard,gonna see if it will fit the back of my karate monkey on a velocity p35 just for laughs but i think i will try it as a rear tire with a knard up front on the krampus/rabbit holes...

  140. #140
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    Did it fit on your monkey?

    Quote Originally Posted by hamsterspam View Post
    just picked up a dirt wizard,gonna see if it will fit the back of my karate monkey on a velocity p35 just for laughs but i think i will try it as a rear tire with a knard up front on the krampus/rabbit holes...

  141. #141
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    yes and no...it fit but it was pretty far back in the drops and since i run a dos enos on the back it was a no go...but i could see it working with a 1x10 albeit at a somewhat unsafe position in the drops if not bolted in place rather than a quick release...

  142. #142
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    Any pics?

  143. #143
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    sorry,i only had it on long enough to check quickly...by the way it was on a velocity p35 with a tube,and still basically a new tire...

  144. #144
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    Ok, thanks for,the reply!

  145. #145
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    What kind of front derailleur do you have, by the way?

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    on the karate monkey? none,its a single speed

  147. #147
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    thanks

  148. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamsterspam View Post
    sorry,i only had it on long enough to check quickly...by the way it was on a velocity p35 with a tube,and still basically a new tire...
    So width wasn't the issue, but diameter was. I am guessing the seat tube? What model year/size is your monkey?

  149. #149
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    it was width...its a 2014 xl karate monkey...since i run a dos enos 17/19 on the rear i needed some wiggle room and on the 19 tooth it was too far forward and was rubbing the chainstays....if i committed to a single gear on the back i could have made it work,but seeing as how i own a krampus it just didnt seem worth the effort...

  150. #150
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    Thanks for the info Hamsterspan

    'll love to try them on my Ogre which seems to have a ton of clearance on the back. The current 2.4 Ardents have something like 8 or 9mm on each side. But the price of the DW (or the FBN) seems to be way too high when there are so many great options by half the price and not that smaller (Mountain King, Ardent, Hans Dampf...)

  151. #151
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    thats what im running on my ogre right now,ardent rear,knard front,i do really like that combo,i have matched mountain king 2.4s on the monkey now,i tried the dirt wizard as a front tire but it was way slower than the knard was...i think the dw will end up on the back of the krampus now with a knard up front,the worn out maxxis chronicle rear from the krampus will go on the ogre as a front tire since it barely sees any off road duty...

  152. #152
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    Off topic, I know, but how do you like the Mountain Kings compared to the Ardents (roll speed, size, traction, etc)?

  153. #153
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    ardents roll faster,good traction,not so plush as they tend to bottom out easily,the mountain kings have awesome traction and are bigger than the ardents,much plusher but not as fast,but they also bottom out less....also the ardent 60 tpi leaked sealant from the bead till it was all gone in a month,only one of the mountain kings bled at the bead on me...

  154. #154
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    From Surley's website on the DW 29" page
    "Fall 2015: We’ve also added sidewall protection for yet more durability as well as a tubeless ready, folding bead."

    Oh yeah this is very good news and TUBELESS READY!

    Well here is a picture of some real DW's
    Surly Dirt Wizard 29+ actual measurements-tr0021.jpg
    This would be my rear tire... if it is real?

  155. #155
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    The 60 tpi DW has been very good running f/r, setup easy tubeless on hugo rims. Have settled out at 3" across casing, 3.2 across knobs, 30" diameter.

  156. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trailice View Post
    From Surley's website on the DW 29" page
    "Fall 2015: We’ve also added sidewall protection for yet more durability as well as a tubeless ready, folding bead."

    Oh yeah this is very good news and TUBELESS READY!
    my original DW was only about 1000gs and they are saying it is about 1070gs now. I am hoping they did something to beef up the sidewalls some of the 120tpi also and that is where the extra mass is.

  157. #157
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    well i hope they did something to increase the tread life...barely 400 miles on mine and its visibly wearing down,the center knobs are eroding away fast in the rocky and sandy conditions here in the southwest...the 120 tpi set up easily with a split tube and unlike every other surly tire i have set up tubeless it isnt constantly bleeding sealant out of the sidewalls...

  158. #158
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    Hamsterspam, I was wondering the same thing - I only have half a dozen rides on my 120tpi's and they set up rubles easy even if they were a little loose. too early to say on tread longevity but the sideways is so flimsy it bleeds stan's through all the seams... Not real confidence inspiring especially in southern Arizona.

  159. #159
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    yeah,surly tires seem to be of widely varying quality from tire to tire...i have knard 26x4.8 on my moonlander,both set up tubeless with split tubes,both 120 tpi but the rear tire bleeds sealant like crazy...otherwise i love them...i was worried they would be too vulnerable to all the crazy desert stuff and the loads of rocks,but so far so good...
    and the dirt wizard...frickin great tire,really working for me with the knard up front,just bummed its wearing so fast...the maxxis chronicles were great until they wore down,then they were like slicks on the kitty litter conditions...but really the knard/dirt wizard combo seems to do well in this part of the desert...

  160. #160
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    The 60 tpi DWs have not bled at all, used Orange Seal sealant. Probably have a bit over 200 miles on so far and no noticeable wear.

  161. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trailice View Post
    From Surley's website on the DW 29" page
    "Fall 2015: We’ve also added sidewall protection for yet more durability as well as a tubeless ready, folding bead."
    Does anyone know how to distinguish the new version?

  162. #162
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    Here's how to destitute the 'old' 120tpi version after about 4 rides

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    Looks like the very reason they added sidewall protection.

  164. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wig View Post
    Here's how to destitute the 'old' 120tpi version after about 4 rides
    Could just be that your sealant is too thin. I have a few 120tpi DW's in the fleet, both run tubeless with Orange Seal, and after a solid season neither of them are doing that.

  165. #165
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    It sure about that - it's just stan's mixed with some slim

  166. #166
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    Almost all my tires do that at some point, but I am 235lbs. mikesee always forgets about people that weigh more than him. It's ok mike, I forgive you.

  167. #167
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    Is that literally sealant coming through the sidewall? I got 120 tpi maxxis chronicles that haven't hit the road yet. Hope I don't run into this.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

  168. #168
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    Yup - through the seams in the casing... In all fairness it's been a good tire (traction, durability) but the casing is very thin - had one tear already

  169. #169
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    The Dirt Wizard real world measurements for both 29x3 and 27.5x3 are both now listed in our Plus Bike Data for Checking Compatibility on RideAlongside.com

  170. #170
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    I've got the new DW and it seems to be good so far. Perfect tubeless - no sideleaks at all. I've used 2-3 layers of a 50mm wide duct tape (simillar to what you call Gorilla tape). Rim is a 50mm Chinese carbon.

    First I've tried only 2 layers of 25mm tape but it blew off at 34psi. Probably it was a bad bead.

  171. #171
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    My 60tpi Wizard came in today. I've never seen a tire with such big knobs, it looks like a dirt bike tire! Weighs 1345g and appears to be bombproof. The compound feels pretty sticky and with the huge side knobs it ought to hook in loose stuff like nobody's business.

    I mounted it up on a Flow to get it stretched out. It looks like it would be the worst rolling tire in the world, but I took it for a short pavement ride and it wasn't bad at all. I figured it would buzz the bars with the big tread, but it just felt about the same as my Hans Dampf.

    I'll post a ride report in the next week.

  172. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by JACKL View Post
    My 60tpi Wizard came in today. I've never seen a tire with such big knobs, it looks like a dirt bike tire! Weighs 1345g and appears to be bombproof. The compound feels pretty sticky and with the huge side knobs it ought to hook in loose stuff like nobody's business.

    I mounted it up on a Flow to get it stretched out. It looks like it would be the worst rolling tire in the world, but I took it for a short pavement ride and it wasn't bad at all. I figured it would buzz the bars with the big tread, but it just felt about the same as my Hans Dampf.

    I'll post a ride report in the next week.
    Thanks for the report. I also find it to roll really well for such a big tire.

    Does your tire have any special marking on it that say it has a Tubeless Ready Bead or Sidewall Protection?

  173. #173
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    No special markings indicating anything like that one way or another. I got it from Universal cycles, and it did say Kevlar bead on the description on the website, but I don't know how really tell which version I got. The only significant thing I can find is the following number on the sidewall: IA-1144N-01.

    I'm very impressed with the DW 60tpi as a front tire. I initially ran the Bomboloni on the front and although it worked well traction and cush wise, it had some really weird steering characteristics. The DW steers in a similar manner to my Hans Dampfs, although with a somewhat heavier feel at times which is not unexpected. But the bike is still fun to throw around.

    The traction when the bike is leaned over far surpasses any tire I've ever used. I'm still trying to find the limit. I've scooted it a bit at mild lean angles, but once it is leaned over it just hooks. The hardest part so far is getting my brain to trust the tire in that type of cornering. I think this tire would be amazing for high-speed enduro runs or wet PNW conditions.

    I'm running it tubeless on a ASYSM i35. No sidewall leakage. The tire went on a little easier than I'd like, and I noticed that after bottoming it on the rim there was a evidence of a small amount of sealant leakage. I may add an extra layer of tape to tighten it up.

    It's got a heavy carcass which should hold up well to rocks. We will see.

  174. #174
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    DW 60 on an Asym i35 has been a great front tire for me. However, six weeks of riding is all I got before it grew beyond what my 29er Pike could handle. Had to go to a '16 fox 27+ fork for clearance.

  175. #175
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    I found its limit in sand and hard packed, but I agree with you completely with regards to the Bomboloni and the ability of the 60tpi Dirt Wizard. I plan on using it for Enduro this season on a 45 ID rim.
    The Bomb was great for me as an all round tire though once I got used to its characteristics and I prefer it for slick rock, or hard packed conditions.

  176. #176
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    This seems to be the most current dirt wizard 29 thread.

    I just picked up a pair of the 60 tpi version. They seem much more rigid and stiff than my 27tpi knards. Durability is a big deal for me, so that's good. I think the rigidity will increase vibration damping too, which is a big plus on a rigid bike.

    The tubeless ready bead has me worried. AFter reading about tire growth, I went ahead and pumped my tires up to a little under the 35psi max. A few minutes later the front blew off. I've been using these rims with knards tubeless for 11 months, both 27 and 120 tpi versions, so this is a bad sign for the new dirt wizards.

    Tubeless setup was easy, but the bead did not feel as tight as with knards. I really really hope these tires do not burp in hard turns!

    The pictures of the tread on the surly site, and thus most sites, is very misleading. Looking at google images, it looks like there're two different dirt wizard 29 tread patterns. I think it is lighting, but not totally convinced. My tires have 4 distinct rows of knobs. 2 rows in the middle, and then a gap with no true knobs and then the side knobs. The surly stock photo is quite different looking to me. Is this my imagination? Maybe their photo is a 26x3 dw and it just looks a little different.
    Surly Dirt Wizard 29+ actual measurements-dirt-wizard-29x3-60tpi.jpgSurly Dirt Wizard 29+ actual measurements-surly.com-dirt-wizard-29x3-60tpi.jpg

    These tires seem to pedal smoothly on the road. I think the stiff sidewalls help for a given psi. Definitely took far fewer pump strokes than a knard. easier tubeless setup with a floor pump for same reason.

  177. #177
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    Got the 120tpi that should be the new "tubeless bead" version. The sidewalls are really thin so not sure if this really is the new model. Was a bit of a pain to get seated tubeless on WTB Scraper. Sealant came out between the tire and rim on multiple locations. Might be because I took the tire straight from the packaging to the rim. Waiting for a test ride...

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    Hello i read the thread but i want to be sure. So does the 29x3 Dirt Wizard fit in standard fox 32 fork? Are there any model years that have more clearence than others? I am interested in if DW fits when on 45 mm inner width rim. Or must the rim be narrower in order for DW to fit in standard fox 32.

  179. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3names View Post
    Hello i read the thread but i want to be sure. So does the 29x3 Dirt Wizard fit in standard fox 32 fork? Are there any model years that have more clearence than others? I am interested in if DW fits when on 45 mm inner width rim. Or must the rim be narrower in order for DW to fit in standard fox 32.
    29x3 Dirt Wizard is a narrow 29+ tire. Maxxis Chronicle is the biggest one. I've been using Chronicle in my Fox 32 FLOAT O/C CTD 2013 fork for few months. If it fit a Chronicle then it will fit a DW as well.
    The only issue with Chronicle is that at full compression the tire touches the crown. DW is much shorter so probably it's not an issue.

    However if you not super light yourself then I'd suggest another fork. Fox 32 is a light XC fork for light riders. It is wobbly.

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    This is exactly what I'll be doing.

    Quote Originally Posted by maelstromwbc View Post
    I've been holding out waiting to get a 29x3 tire for my rigid OnOne Inbred SS for a year wating for the Dirt Wizard to come out (didn't want a Knard). But now that I've looked at one in person and seen all these pictures, I'm not sure it's what I want.

    I think I am going Maxxis Chronicle route, despite it's ridiculously ugly graphics.

    However, if the DW fits inside a Pike I might put it on the front of my FS 29er when the Hans Dampf wears out.
    This is exactly what I'll be doing. I've been running the Hans Dampf 2.35 out front for over 4 years on 30mm wide Light-Bicycle rims. I just ordered the same rims but in the 35mm flavor. Because of my brand new expensive carbon rims.... I'm thinking I should probably buy a new tire as I imagine my Hans Dampf is on it's last legs and the last thing I want is for the Hans Dampf to blow up on me and destroy my brand new carbon rims.

    I'll report back once I get it all set up but the DW's looks like they are going to be BOSS up front as a replacement for the Hans Dampf on a Rock Shock Pike FS 29'er.

  181. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogiprophet View Post
    The height mounted on a 45mm/50mm (inner/outer) rim is about 29-3/4" which falls right in between my Bontrager XR4 (about 29-1/4") and a Gravity Vidar (about 30-1/2").

    The width I measured the DW on the same rim with a caliper was 2.91"

    I have to admit I am a little disappointed in the height but it didn't seem to mess with the geometry of my bike which I designed to run a regular 29er in the back and a 29+ in the front for overall speed.

    BTW, the 2.4 Mountain King I mounted in the rear on a 31.6mm/38mm rim only measured 2.3" Not sure in what verse (as in universe but it couldn't be a universe if there's more than one) that tire measures 2.4"
    This is music to my ears. I'm running the 2.4 MK out back on 25/30 mm rims right now. Going to the 30/35 hopefully as soon as next week. I love it when I see all of my research into tires has paid off when I find other Gnarr thrill seekers using my set up.

  182. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by goose8 View Post
    Did it fit on your monkey?
    Is it just me or does this sound ultra dirty.


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    Hi. Does the DW 29x3.0 fit a Fox 36 29 boost?

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