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  1. #501
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    Quote Originally Posted by seat_boy View Post
    Bushnell. I would have preferred the pinch bolt style, maybe that's only on the SWB?
    Seems like they're phasing the new BB in. Some colors/sizes/configurations have it. Hopefully when I'm ready to pull the trigger, it will be available with the unicrown fork.

  2. #502
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjbiker View Post
    Seems like they're phasing the new BB in. Some colors/sizes/configurations have it. Hopefully when I'm ready to pull the trigger, it will be available with the unicrown fork.
    My LWB I have just received has the pinch type

  3. #503
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonesetter2004 View Post
    My LWB I have just received has the pinch type
    Unicrown or truss fork?

  4. #504
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjbiker View Post
    Unicrown or truss fork?
    Truss

  5. #505
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonesetter2004 View Post
    Truss
    The truss is way cooler, but the absence of proprietary parts and simpler installation has me leaning toward the unicrown fork.

  6. #506
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcowan View Post
    Essjss, what kind of tires do you roll for commuting? I'm thinking two wheelsets.

    Also, anyone set theirs up fixed gear? My commuter has been fixed in winter to help deal with the Minnesota nastiness, i'd likely aim for the same on this bike if it is possible. Anyone have thoughts on how to do that?
    You might be able to use your current hub/wheel with a disc-fixie cog. There used to be a few more vendors (e.g., TomiCog), but a 5 second google search yielded only VeloSolo:

    Jones Plus-dscn4351a.jpg

    https://www.velosolo.co.uk/disccog.html
    "Keep your burgers lean and your tires fat." -h.d. | ssoft | flickr

  7. #507
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjbiker View Post
    The truss is way cooler, but the absence of proprietary parts and simpler installation has me leaning toward the unicrown fork.
    Front hub is a fat bike hub

    Choose your rim

    I run with the 3.25 Crux which is a great all-round, all-year tire

  8. #508
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonesetter2004 View Post
    Front hub is a fat bike hub

    Choose your rim

    I run with the 3.25 Crux which is a great all-round, all-year tire
    I was referring to the headset as proprietary. Maybe not 100% accurate, but it's not a part you'll find everywhere. The unicrown fork takes a 150mm fat bike hub, too.

  9. #509
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjbiker View Post
    I was referring to the headset as proprietary. Maybe not 100% accurate, but it's not a part you'll find everywhere. The unicrown fork takes a 150mm fat bike hub, too.
    You use two 'tops' for the HS
    Or a Jones one

    The benefits of the truss fork are quite significant

  10. #510
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    Did a nearly full strip down of my brown Plus 135 last week. Rebuilt the wheels today, lost 250ish grams between the pair of wheels, will try to get pics tomorrow. Unsure of exact direction the rebuild will take right now

  11. #511
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    I have a question.

    Does 150x15mm dynamo hub (PD-8X-150) fits on a 148x15mm truss fork?
    Or should I go with PD-8X-110 with a hub convrrsion kit adapter 110x15mm to 148x15mm?

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  12. #512
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    I think you are confused about the Front hub size. The current Jones bikes all use a 150x15 front axle. The rear is a 148x12. There is no 148x15 now or in the previous models.

    What bike are you looking to put a Dynamo on?

  13. #513
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    Quote Originally Posted by essjss View Post
    I think you are confused about the Front hub size. The current Jones bikes all use a 150x15 front axle. The rear is a 148x12. There is no 148x15 now or in the previous models.

    What bike are you looking to put a Dynamo on?
    Yes you are right. Its 142x15mm.

    So looks like i have to get the adapter then.

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  14. #514
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    Quote Originally Posted by rasidi View Post
    Yes you are right. Its 142x15mm.

    So looks like i have to get the adapter then.

    Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
    You are still confused. All current Jones forks are 150x15. The hub you mentioned will work without any adapters.

  15. #515
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeny View Post
    You are still confused. All current Jones forks are 150x15. The hub you mentioned will work without any adapters.
    Haha .. maybe this man confused me ..

    https://www.jonesbikes.com/jones-135-142-f-hub/

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  16. #516
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    Quote Originally Posted by rasidi View Post
    Haha .. maybe this man confused me ..

    https://www.jonesbikes.com/jones-135-142-f-hub/

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    That hub is for the older Jones forks that were 135 or 142.

    Once again, all current Jones forks are 15x150.

    What fork do you have?

  17. #517
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    What parts come with an LWB frame w/ truss fork?

    1. Headset?
    2. Steerer tube? What length?
    3. BB?
    4. Derailleur hanger?
    5. Thru axles?

    Going by the picture on the website: I would say everything but the headset on my list. What additional parts might one need, e.g. spacers for the truss fork?

    If I want to run 29' x 3.0 wheels and a 2x crank, do I need a Surly OD crank? My intended use is for a bikepacking rig. Okay, it looks like I was reading an old owner's manual, and the new owner's manual says:

    Drive train notes
    Your Jones Plus frame is designed around the Boost standard, and must be used with a Boost crankset. Boost cranks position the chainrings 3mm farther outboard than standard cranks, and are key to getting proper tire clearance with 27.5 x 3 tires on the Jones Plus SWB and 29 x 3 tires on the Jones Plus LWB. As long as you use Boost cranks in a double (2x) or single (1x) chainring configuration, you can use any style of drivetrain and combination of gears on the bike. In addition to the Boost crankset, you will need a 148x12mm (Boost spacing) thru-axle rear hub. This combination allows us to use cranks with a low Q-Factor (also known as tread), while being able to use tires up to 3.25 wide.
    Thanks.

  18. #518
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    Quote Originally Posted by happyriding View Post
    What parts come with an LWB frame w/ truss fork?

    1. Headset?
    2. Steerer tube? What length?
    3. BB?
    4. Derailleur hanger?
    5. Thru axles?

    Going by the picture on the website: I would say everything but the headset on my list. What additional parts might one need, e.g. spacers for the truss fork?
    Yes, you get everything but the headset on that list. I assume by BB you mean the eccentric BB shell though. It's probably best to order the headset from Jeff too. In terms of headset spacers I can't remember what is included - from memory it can be helpful to have a few thinner (1 and 2.5 mm) spacers in addition to some taller ones to get the fit with the truss fork right.

  19. #519
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    Quote Originally Posted by happyriding View Post
    What parts come with an LWB frame w/ truss fork?

    1. Headset?
    2. Steerer tube? What length?
    3. BB?
    4. Derailleur hanger?
    5. Thru axles?

    Going by the picture on the website: I would say everything but the headset on my list. What additional parts might one need, e.g. spacers for the truss fork?

    If I want to run 29' x 3.0 wheels and a 2x crank, do I need a Surly OD crank? My intended use is for a bikepacking rig. Okay, it looks like I was reading an old owner's manual, and the new owner's manual says:



    Thanks.
    You will need a headset, order one at the same time as the frame from Jones, as it's not a standard headset.

    You will need a bottom bracket to match whatever crank you want to run. As stated in that paragraph you attached, you can run any Boost crank you want.

    It comes with the thru axles.

    All the info you asked for is on the website:

    https://www.jonesbikes.com/jones-ste...el-truss-fork/

  20. #520
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    In terms of headset spacers I can't remember what is included - from memory it can be helpful to have a few thinner (1 and 2.5 mm) spacers in addition to some taller ones to get the fit with the truss fork right.
    Okay, I'll order the spacers.

    It's probably best to order the headset from Jeff too.
    Quote Originally Posted by bikeny View Post
    You will need a headset, order one at the same time as the frame from Jones, as it's not a standard headset.
    Yep, I'm planning on doing that.

    You will need a bottom bracket to match whatever crank you want to run. As stated in that paragraph you attached, you can run any Boost crank you want.
    I thought the EBB was a bottom bracket, lol.

    It comes with the thru axles.

    All the info you asked for is on the website:

    https://www.jonesbikes.com/jones-ste...el-truss-fork/
    Well, on that page it says:

    Fork Specs:
    ...
    ...
    TA Bolt required, but not included.
    So does the frame and fork come with both a rear and front thru axle? Or, do I need to order a front thru axle?

    No frame bags in stock.
    Last edited by happyriding; 1 Week Ago at 07:51 PM.

  21. #521
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    Looks nice! Medium I guess, and how tall are you if I may ask. 182 myself and torn between medium and large...

  22. #522
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderBoy View Post
    Looks nice! Medium I guess, and how tall are you if I may ask. 182 myself and torn between medium and large...
    Im 60 tall with a average ratio of leg to torso. On a Plus LWB Spaceframe. Its a 24 which I think is medium in Jones. Jeff said he is my size and he made the 24 for himself so it would be perfect for me. Hes right.

  23. #523
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    Quote Originally Posted by happyriding View Post
    Okay, I'll order the spacers.



    Yep, I'm planning on doing that.


    I thought the EBB was a bottom bracket, lol.


    Well, on that page it says:


    So does the frame and fork came with both a rear and front thru axle? Or, do I need to order a front thru axle?

    No frame bags in stock.
    That's weird about the thru axle. Right at the top of that page it says the following:

    This is a frame, fork, EBB (eccentric bottom bracket), front and rear TA bolts, water bottle bolts, clips, and standard derailleur hanger.

    Give him a quick call to be sure, but thru axle frames and forks generally come with the required thru axles.

    As for the bottom bracket, sounds like you need to educate yourself on what an EBB is. It's an Eccentric Bottom Bracket which allows the location of the bottom bracket to be rotated giving adjustment to the BB height and chainstay length. You still need to provide the actual bottom bracket, which mounts into the EBB and will be matched to whatever crankset you end up getting.

    I would suggest giving Jeff a call before ordering. He is very responsive and will take the time to talk you through everything you need to know.

  24. #524
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    That's weird about the thru axle. Right at the top of that page it says the following:

    This is a frame, fork, EBB (eccentric bottom bracket), front and rear TA bolts, water bottle bolts, clips, and standard derailleur hanger.
    I just noticed that myself. That text is in a bigger font than the text below it, so the bigger text must be determinative!

    Does anyone have recommendations for a Revelate frame bag that will fit the 25" LWB Plus?

  25. #525
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    Thru axles are definitely included in the package

    It would be mad if they were not

  26. #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by happyriding View Post
    I just noticed that myself. That text is in a bigger font than the text below it, so the bigger text must be determinative!

    Does anyone have recommendations for a Revelate frame bag that will fit the 25" LWB Plus?
    NZPeterG recommended me an XL Revelate Ranger Frame Bag for a 24" Jones Plus. My only guess is you go bigger for a 25", I think but the biggest Revelate has is an XL.

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  27. #527
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    Thanks bonesetter2004! Thanks for the picture rasidi!

    What about a wheelset recommendation? I was thinking of running 29 x 3.0 tires, like Maxxis Chronicles, so I need a fat rim. The Jones C rims are awful pricey, and they are out of stock anyway. I'm really hard on rear hubs and rims, so I need something durable. I plan on running a Schmidt dynamo hub in the front (SON 28 15 150mm) so no prebuilt wheels for me.
    Last edited by happyriding; 1 Week Ago at 08:53 PM.

  28. #528
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    I went Scraper i50

    3.25 Crux front which i run all year round, and same rim rear, Chronicle occasionally going more mud eg Surly mudhugger

  29. #529
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonesetter2004 View Post
    I went Scraper i50
    Are you sure those aren't i45? According to the WTB website, the widest rim they offer is i45.

  30. #530
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    Sorry yes. i45

  31. #531
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    I'm another 6' 3" rider (there are several that posted to this thread). What stem length/seat post combo would people recommend with the Jones Loop bar (710mm)? The only thing I have to go on is:

    The Jones H-Bar works best when the main
    grip area is approximately the same height as
    the saddle, and far enough back toward the
    saddle to allow you to sit very upright when holding the rearmost portion of the grip area, so that you have easy access to the front positions
    as well. To achieve this, you may need a significantly shorter and/or higher rise stem.
    Is there a geometry chart somewhere for the 25" LWB?
    Last edited by happyriding; 1 Week Ago at 11:11 PM.

  32. #532
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    Is there a geometry chart somewhere for the 25" LWB?

    No!

    Phone up Jeff Jones and talk with him.

    A Jones bikes are not a standard bike and geometry is very different.

    All the best.


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  33. #533
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcowan View Post
    I'm very seriously considering pulling the trigger in the next day or so as I've been in search of one bike to do everything. Based on reviews and reading here, I'm convinced it will do my bidding while mnt biking, riding gravel, and occasionally bike packing. Anyone here have reports on how a Jones Plus serves as a regular commuter? Winter warrior? Any thoughts would be appreciated. I'm hoping to sell off the rest of the quiver and focus on the simplicity of one bicycle for awhile.
    I'm in Minnesota; as a commuter I would not ride the Chronicles- they are rather slow and you'll notice it. Its pretty good in winter though, although this year everything has been dicey with all the snow. I've got mine set up with a Rolhoff. Despite what Jeff says about them the Rolhoff is da bomb. In snow the ability to shift right now is the difference between going or falling over.


    Quote Originally Posted by happyriding View Post

    Does anyone have recommendations for a Revelate frame bag that will fit the 25" LWB Plus?

    I just got the Revelate bag that Jeff sells off of his website. I got the fork bags too. I rode the Plus on the Tour Divide last year. It was faster than my Cutthroat I took the year before! I tried like crazy to get a seat bag that wouldn't rub against the rear wheel and could actually hold some stuff; gave up and went with a Tubus frame and Rogue Panda panniers, which were designed for bikepacking abuse.

    The Revelate bag worked great despite plenty of rain, mud and dust on the Divide. Revelate made the fork bags too; they worked fine as well. One thing I really liked about them is they solved the water bottle problem as the bags are equipped with a proper sized pocket for bottles. Being inside the bag they couldn't rattle out on some of the descents and there was still plenty of room for food.

    I kept my water pump, first aid kit and repair kit in the top pocket of the frame bag. A spare tube and a water bottle went in the bottom. The frame bag matches up with the Revelate gas tank so it all went together nicely.

    Due to a resolution error in my Garmin I got off route on the first day and didn't discover the error until the end of the nest day when wifi was around. So I bypassed Koko claims and took the Elk River Trail to Fernie instead. Lots and lots of single track, and the Jones rules in single track even loaded up. It was raining a lot too but the Jones was really sure footed. Overall one of my favorite bikes. One thing I really noticed is that on this trip no hand tingling, no knee problems, no joint issues at all. Comfort is a big deal on long trips and the Jones might be one of the most comfortable bikes I've ridden.

  34. #534
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    I just got the Revelate bag that Jeff sells off of his website.
    Not in stock, unfortunately.

    I tried like crazy to get a seat bag that wouldn't rub against the rear wheel and could actually hold some stuff; gave up and went with a Tubus frame and Rogue Panda panniers, which were designed for bikepacking abuse.
    What about a smaller frame so that you can get the seat high enough for a seatbag? Like this bike:


    Jones Plus-5e1a7128.jpg

    Or, are you already on the smallest frame? Without a seatbag, did you run a dropper post? What wheels/tires did you run for the TD?

    I rode the Plus on the Tour Divide last year. It was faster than my Cutthroat I took the year before!
    More. Please. More. Kit, stories, pictures, whatever.

  35. #535
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    I think I'm gonna get a non-roll type bag fro the front. ie: Fabio chest or jumbo jammer from roadrunner. I think either would fit well on a h-bar with truss fork. The jones truss bags are def great. The seat boner bags are great but when they get out back to far they wag hard. one that either has a frame (ie: porcelain rocket) or hugs the psot work best IMO.

  36. #536
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    I'm guessing that was Ralph from St. Paul, MN.
    I read about his bike before the Grand Depart here.
    Tour Divide Rigs 2018 - BIKEPACKING.com
    I thought that was a great page.
    Definitely got my mouth watering.
    I wish there was more info (and pictures) though.

  37. #537
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    I can't see the link in my last post but I clicked on the space and it worked.
    I'll try to edit from a PC later.

  38. #538
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    Quote Originally Posted by happyriding View Post
    Not in stock, unfortunately.


    What about a smaller frame so that you can get the seat high enough for a seatbag? Like this bike:


    Click image for larger version. 

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    Or, are you already on the smallest frame? Without a seatbag, did you run a dropper post? What wheels/tires did you run for the TD?


    More. Please. More. Kit, stories, pictures, whatever.
    Jeff was adamant I was on the right size, but a smaller frame would have allowed a seat bag. Usually if you have a frame too big, you have fit issues but I had none. Jeff doesn't like seat bags- he likes added weight to be down lower if possible. I was running a Thudbuster and that is part of the reason the seat bag didn't work out.

    He insisted that the Chronicles were a fast tire. I was assembling the bike in the spring of 2017 and at the time that might have been the case (the bike was not ready in 2017- that year I took the Cutty). I found them frustratingly slow on pavement. He also insisted that about 11 pounds was right in the front and a little more in the rear; that wasn't right for me either. I trained with the full gear (fork bags, frame bag, gas tank, panniers and trunk bag) and found that I just needed more air to make the bike go. By the time I headed out to Calgary, I had 13 psi front and 16 psi rear. But even that proved to be too low and added a few more psi while on the ride. The bike was about 55 pounds with water fully loaded.

    On gravel and dirt the Chronicles did just fine- when coasting on descents others on 2.2s and the like were no faster but the difference was I hardly had to slow down for the bumps. I'm running 203mm rotors front and rear with BB7s. I don't like hydraulic brakes for the Divide; I've had hydraulics freeze up on me in the past; in the middle of nowhere that's not a comforting thought. The Jones stops faster than any other bike I've ridden and the 203s help significantly with the pad life.


    Progress was slow as I was riding with a friend and right away on the first day I realized that the trip was going to be about preserving the friendship over the next few weeks. If you plan to race the Divide, don't plan to ride with a friend! He only had about 60 miles a day in him and took well over an hour in the morning to pack up!

    On the third day we took the single track from Elkford to Fernie (known as the Elk Valley Trail). A huge time suck but the Jones really proved itself. We had caught up a number of other riders the first day and were still with them on that day too. On that day I discovered that where most people were walking their bikes up steep grades, I could clip in and pedal, and although I was not a lot faster, I was faster, so from then on I rode over passes that two years before had me HAB.

    Regarding clipless, its to your advantage to move the clips back so you're a bit more forward on the pedal. You can make more power and less troubles with knees.

    The only mechanical I had was shift cables that frayed inside the Rohloff shift housing. There's not a lot of clearance in the housing and the cables were rubbing against it. They have to be trim and tight enough that this does not happen! I replaced the cables in Ovando.

    This year I'm out on the Divide again. I'm using Jones carbon bars this time- they are supposed to be more comfortable because of how they deal with vibration. Hopefully I have plenty of time to sort that out. The snow is still here! If Jeff ever gets his carbon rims back in I think I'll go with those too. Its a lot of cash for a slight loss in weight, but if there is going to be a weight reduction, that's the best place to have it. Jeff maintains that they don't make that much difference, but he's basing that on constant speed. On the Divide you are rarely moving at a constant speed, you're always accelerating and de-accelerating. So the longer you're on a ride, the more that will make a difference.

    The first year I went out, I carried far too much water. Until you get to Butte, you are better off just carrying maybe 2 1/2 bottles of water and pumping water before you run out. The first year I carried a liter bottle of water over 350 miles before I opened it up, and there was surface water everywhere!

    Another tip- if you can make it to Wise River and still be going strong, you've got the Divide in your back pocket. There are no significant passes until you get past the Tetons at that point and Wyoming has only two passes (both are high though). So getting out of Montana isn't that hard at that point (as long as you don't encounter peanut butter on the Bannock Trail) - once you get to Idaho your chances of completing the ride are significantly higher.

    Most people scratch well before that. Knee problems are common along with hand and neck issues. This is where the Jones shines- The upright riding position helps with the neck and hands. Make sure you err on the short side with the cranks; my inseam is 30" so 170s are about as long as I can manage. In 2017 the Cutty had 175s and I had knee problems- but I had no issues at all in 2018. It pays off on longer rides like this to spend the time to make sure all your fit issues are sorted: they all interact! For example, if your cleats aren't set right, sooner or later it will affect your hands. On a short trip its probably not a big deal but on longer trips small things add up. So its worth it to spend the time to make sure everything is right.

  39. #539
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    I think I'm gonna get a non-roll type bag fro the front
    .
    What's the issue with roll type bags with a truss fork?

    Tour Divide Rigs 2018 - BIKEPACKING.com
    I thought that was a great page.
    Yep, I've already poured over it.


    This year I'm out on the Divide again...The snow is still here!
    Right now?!! NoBo or SoBo? Who would be crazy enough to start SoBo this early in the year? There was 3" of snow in Phoenix, AZ ten days ago!

    Jeff doesn't like seat bags- he likes added weight to be down lower if possible.
    That's generally the same thought with road touring bikes, but I thought the whole idea behind bikepacking seatbags was to be as narrow as possible, for single track, which I guess is irrelevant for most of the TD.

    I don't like hydraulic brakes for the Divide; I've had hydraulics freeze up on me in the past;
    From cold temps? I hadn't thought of that. I was wondering why so many people use BB7's. I thought they were crazy because I've never cut a hose on XT hydraulic brakes, which I assumed is why they used BB7's.

    On that day I discovered that where most people were walking their bikes up steep grades, I could clip in and pedal, and although I was not a lot faster, I was faster, so from then on I rode over passes that two years before had me HAB.
    Hah! I was riding a steep hill a year ago on my full suspension mtb, and I slowly churned by a 70 something hiker, and she looked at me as I passed, and she said, "That's as fast as you can go??"

    Regarding clipless, its to your advantage to move the clips back so you're a bit more forward on the pedal.
    I have size 14 feet, and I always ram the cleats as far back as they can go, and as far as I can tell they are never positioned far enough back, but my knees don't seem to mind.

    Knee problems are common
    Do you think that's from lack of training, i.e. not enough climbing miles, or running gears that aren't low enough?

    hand and neck issues.
    Along with back aches, I get those on long rides, too.

    Make sure you err on the short side with the cranks;
    I've used 175mm cranks my whole life on road bikes, touring frames, and mtbs. I can't imagine switching to something shorter. Leonard Zinn believes tall people should be taking advantage of the leverage in their legs by running 180's-190's.

    What tires are you running this year if not Chronicles? What length stem are you running?

  40. #540
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    Quote Originally Posted by happyriding View Post
    .
    What's the issue with roll type bags with a truss fork?
    You can make it happen. I don't like the weight up that high- tried it.

    Right now?!! NoBo or SoBo? Who would be crazy enough to start SoBo this early in the year? There was 3" of snow in Phoenix, AZ ten days ago!
    No- training now- if I can get outside. Leaving in June.


    From cold temps? I hadn't thought of that. I was wondering why so many people use BB7's. I thought they were crazy because I've never cut a hose on XT hydraulic brakes, which I assumed is why they used BB7's.
    No- from dirt contaminating either the caliper of the master on the brake lever. I've had both happen. The Divide has a lot of that sort of thing.

    Do you think that's from lack of training, i.e. not enough climbing miles?
    No- people do this thing on single speeds, the record being around 15 days. Knee problems arise from incorrect seat placement, incorrect handlebar placement, incorrect cleat placement and cranks that are over-long.
    Along with back aches, I get those on long rides, too.
    This last year I was with a guy that hit a bump while descending the Galton Pass; when he came down on his saddle the hit re-injured an old back injury and he was out of the race just like that. I ride with a Thudbuster- its a lot easier on the back.
    I've used 175mm cranks my whole life on road bikes, touring frames, and mtbs. I can't imagine switching to something shorter. Leonard Zinn believes tall people should be taking advantage of the leverage in their legs by running 180's-190's.
    It they are really tall they can do that. But the most important part about the leverage is the knee. Think about how hard it is to hold a standing pose with your knees bent at 90 degrees and stand up, as opposed to when they are only bent at 45 degrees. You actually have more leverage, more ability to push the crank down if its too short as opposed to too long.

    The industry really doesn't like to talk about this topic and there is a lot of misinformation! But if a person needs a different seat height and frame size it should follow that the crank size is just as important. The problem is that you might be fine on longer cranks for a day or two, but try that for a week or two and see how you feel! So the industry gets away with it.

    https://ridefar.info/2017/02/crank-l...ance-cyclists/

    What tires are you running this year if not Chronicles? What length stem are you running?[/QUOTE]

    The stem is 70mm and I'm experimenting with some Vitorria Bombolonis. I tire that is just a little faster is all I am looking for and the Vitorrias are supposed to shed mud pretty well...

  41. #541
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    Do TD riders use dynamo tail lights? Where do they attach them if not using racks?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salubrious View Post
    No- people do this thing on single speeds, the record being around 15 days. Knee problems arise from incorrect seat placement, incorrect handlebar placement, incorrect cleat placement and cranks that are over-long.


    This last year I was with a guy that hit a bump while descending the Galton Pass; when he came down on his saddle the hit re-injured an old back injury and he was out of the race just like that. I ride with a Thudbuster- its a lot easier on the back.

    It they are really tall they can do that. But the most important part about the leverage is the knee. Think about how hard it is to hold a standing pose with your knees bent at 90 degrees and stand up, as opposed to when they are only bent at 45 degrees. You actually have more leverage, more ability to push the crank down if its too short as opposed to too long.

    The industry really doesn't like to talk about this topic and there is a lot of misinformation! But if a person needs a different seat height and frame size it should follow that the crank size is just as important. The problem is that you might be fine on longer cranks for a day or two, but try that for a week or two and see how you feel! So the industry gets away with it.

    https://ridefar.info/2017/02/crank-l...ance-cyclists/
    I think the slack seat tube on the Jones bikes can help, too. This allows the rider to sit further back and recruit the glutes and hamstrings more, instead of just using their quads, which is harder on the knees. Most other modern mountain bikes have seat tubes that are way too steep for bad knees, in my opinion.

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    [QUOTE=happyriding;14014877].
    What's the issue with roll type bags with a truss fork?

    Handle bar rolls obviously work well with the truss fork, I am just interested in a more practical user friendly setup.

    I usually run my sleeping kit in my roll bag, but they are a pain to get things in and out of. Roll bags are designed to ride high and tight for efficient trail riding but if you've bike packed you know that even with the most svelt of rigs(bags) on tight nice single track (ie: BCT or similar) you are never gonna ride as fast or shred as hard as you would on you trail bike.

    I think some of the recent offerings (linked below) offer easier in and out access, more space, and still have the potential to ride nice and tight while on tour. Also, for a ride such as TGDTR, where dirt roads are plentiful, the need for a small svelt handle bar bag is less.
    Bags by Bird (BXB) Releases the Teardrop, a Drop-Bar Handlebar Bag - BIKEPACKING.com
    Road Runner Bikepacking Bags - BIKEPACKING.com
    https://ultraromance.bigcartel.com/p...chest-tan-xpac

  44. #544
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilson1417 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by happyriding View Post
    .
    What's the issue with roll type bags with a truss fork?
    Handle bar rolls obviously work well with the truss fork, I am just interested in a more practical user friendly setup.
    I ran into the convenience thing too. That's why I went with the Rogue Panda panniers which are designed for bikepacking. They are much easier to use. I keep my sleeping system in them. Completely waterproof, don't move around and really really tough, but you need a rack. The Tubus is the best I've seen. What's nice about this setup is it puts more weight in the rear and the bags aren't any wider than my legs so wind drag isn't a thing. The weight in the rear is handy if you have to do some HAB since pushing the bike over a rock or log is harder if the rear of the bike wants to come up! Obviously the panniers don't interfere when doing HAB.

    The rack also allows for a trunk bag so my setup looks more like a traditional touring system except that everything employs dry bag closures and the like. With a trunk bag, a frame bag isn't essential- you can get by with a Revelate Tangle bag and use the frame space for water. It looks like I'm carrying a lot of stuff on my bike, but my bags aren't tightly packed so I have plenty of room for food. Definitely handy if you discover that your expectations of when you're getting to a town aren't going to be met!

  45. #545
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    The seat boner bags are great but when they get out back to far they wag hard. one that either has a frame (ie: porcelain rocket) or hugs the psot work best IMO.
    From what I've read, PorcelainRocket's Mr. Fusion seatbag is pretty hard to obtain.

    I went with the Rogue Panda panniers which are designed for bikepacking.
    I just realized that with a seatbag, you cannot get off the back of your seat for steep technical descents, so panniers seem like they have an advantage in that regard as well.

    If Jeff ever gets his carbon rims back in I think I'll go with those too
    What's the story with those rims, i.e. when are they in stock? I'm trying to determine if the carbon rims would be a better investment than a Ti frame.

  46. #546
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    Quote Originally Posted by happyriding View Post
    What's the story with those rims, i.e. when are they in stock? I'm trying to determine if the carbon rims would be a better investment than a Ti frame.
    Depending on who you talk to, weight on the circumference of a wheel is worth about double what it is elsewhere on the bike, or maybe 3x, again depending on who you talk to.

    The Ti frame is about 4 pounds lighter than the steel isn't it? If that is the case, a set of carbon rims are worth about 1 pound on the frame as opposed to aluminum, since there is about a 1/4 pound difference between an alloy rim (WTB Scrapers) and Jeff's carbon rims.

    When you're climbing that's where the weight of the bike really makes a difference. despite that I'm sticking with the steel frame for now- in order to get a TI frame, I have to get a boost spacing Rohloff as well, and I'm just not up for it. But if you're not planning a Rohloff, then the TI frame makes more sense than the carbon rims.

  47. #547
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salubrious View Post
    Depending on who you talk to, weight on the circumference of a wheel is worth about double what it is elsewhere on the bike, or maybe 3x, again depending on who you talk to.

    The Ti frame is about 4 pounds lighter than the steel isn't it? If that is the case, a set of carbon rims are worth about 1 pound on the frame as opposed to aluminum, since there is about a 1/4 pound difference between an alloy rim (WTB Scrapers) and Jeff's carbon rims.

    When you're climbing that's where the weight of the bike really makes a difference. despite that I'm sticking with the steel frame for now- in order to get a TI frame, I have to get a boost spacing Rohloff as well, and I'm just not up for it. But if you're not planning a Rohloff, then the TI frame makes more sense than the carbon rims.
    Your analysis make some sense, but your weights are way off. Comparing weight between a medium Ti diamond frame with Ti truss fork vs. medium steel diamond frame and steel truss fork, the Ti setup is 1.75 lbs lighter. The difference for a large will be a bit more, but nowhere near 4 pounds.

  48. #548
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    Here are the weights for a 25" (Large) LWB:

    Code:
    5.52 lbs  -- Ti frame
    2.52 lbs  -- Ti truss fork
    ----------
    8.04 lbs  
    
    6.83 lbs  -- steel frame
    3.08 lbs  -- steel truss fork
    ----------
    9.91 lbs
    So, the Ti frame with truss fork is 1.87 lbs lighter than the steel frame and fork.

    Carbon rims are an extra $1180, while the Ti frame and fork are an extra:

    Code:
      $4,250 -- Ti frame and fork
    - $1,375 -- Steel frame and fork
      ---------
      $2,875
    Last edited by happyriding; 6 Days Ago at 04:55 PM.

  49. #549
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    Quote Originally Posted by happyriding View Post
    Here are the weights for a 25" (Large) LWB:

    Code:
    5.52 lbs  -- Ti frame
    2.52 lbs  -- Ti fork
    ----------
    8.04 lbs
    
    6.83 lbs  -- steel frame
    3.08 lbs  -- steel truss fork
    ----------
    9.91 lbs
    So, the Ti frame with truss fork is 1.87 lbs lighter that the steel frame and fork.
    Dang! In that case the rims seems the better option to me.

  50. #550
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    Does anyone have any idea when the Jones C-rims may be in stock?

  51. #551
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    Dang! In that case the rims seems the better option to me.
    Hold on there! I found this article: Cycling science: Do light wheels beat a light frame?

    which claims:

    In reality, mass saved from the rims of wheels is likely to be less than 10% more beneficial than the same mass saved from the rest of the bike.

  52. #552
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salubrious View Post
    I ran into the convenience thing too. That's why I went with the Rogue Panda panniers which are designed for bikepacking. They are much easier to use. I keep my sleeping system in them. Completely waterproof, don't move around and really really tough, but you need a rack. The Tubus is the best I've seen. What's nice about this setup is it puts more weight in the rear and the bags aren't any wider than my legs so wind drag isn't a thing. The weight in the rear is handy if you have to do some HAB since pushing the bike over a rock or log is harder if the rear of the bike wants to come up! Obviously the panniers don't interfere when doing HAB.

    The rack also allows for a trunk bag so my setup looks more like a traditional touring system except that everything employs dry bag closures and the like. With a trunk bag, a frame bag isn't essential- you can get by with a Revelate Tangle bag and use the frame space for water. It looks like I'm carrying a lot of stuff on my bike, but my bags aren't tightly packed so I have plenty of room for food. Definitely handy if you discover that your expectations of when you're getting to a town aren't going to be met!
    Unfortunately Nick at Rogue Panda is not making panniers anymore, hold on to those things! I always wanted a pair from him but never pulled the trigger. However for the Jones Truss fork the Jones for bags looks great!. Seems that there are plenty of other small pannier options, the sweet spot size seems to still being figured out.

  53. #553
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    Quote Originally Posted by happyriding View Post
    Hold on there! I found this article: Cycling science: Do light wheels beat a light frame?

    which claims:
    Yes- as I mentioned- it all depends on who you talk to

    https://van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/listing.php?id=7559

    I've been trying to get my head around the TI frame question as well. To me it boils down to cost- I basically have to build up a new bike to get that 1.87 pound advantage...

  54. #554
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salubrious View Post
    Yes- as I mentioned- it all depends on who you talk to

    https://van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/listing.php?id=7559

    I've been trying to get my head around the TI frame question as well. To me it boils down to cost- I basically have to build up a new bike to get that 1.87 pound advantage...
    Pricey grams

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    It's not just the grams. Ti has that nice springy "supersteel" feeling. On a fully rigid bike it's worth something. At least that's how I justified the extra coins.

  56. #556
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    Oh, you said it was just down to the grams...

    Well, the springy supersteel thing is a bone (er) of contention if you mean comfort

    Ask Jeff (and others' experience) and they will tell you a steel LWB has way more comfort

  57. #557
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    Ti has that nice springy "supersteel" feeling. On a fully rigid bike it's worth something. At least that's how I justified the extra coins.
    I started off with a 59cm steel road bike, after getting a professional fit by a guy who was 6' 8" and about 270 lbs. I was skeptical about buying a frame that size, but the fitter assured me that was my correct size. After building up the bike, it became readily apparent to me that the bike was waaay too small for me. After trying longer and higher and higher rise stems, I moved on to a 66cm (C-C) Ti road bike, and that springy Ti feeling is pretty amazing.

    And Ti does not rust! I hate putting framesaver on steel bikes: it's toxic and it creates a terrible mess.

  58. #558
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    For those riding 25" LWB frames and Jones H-bars, can you post your saddle height, the setback of your seatpost, and stem length? I want to try and extrapolate an approximate stem length for my saddle height of 83cm. I don't know whether I should be trying a 100cm stem or a 50cm stem. I want the bars to be level with the saddle, and the more you raise the saddle height and bars, the shorter the cockpit becomes because the seat tube angle is 71 degrees and the head tube angle is 67.5 degrees.

    Thanks.

  59. #559
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    I'm almost exactly your size (82cm saddle height). Here's my 25" Jones LWB, straight block post, 60mm stem, 65mm of spacers under the stem, 170mm cranks. The bars are just about exactly level with the saddle:

    Jones Plus-img_1245.jpg

    Quote Originally Posted by happyriding View Post
    For those riding 25" LWB frames and Jones H-bars, can you post your saddle height, the setback of your seatpost, and stem length? I want to try and extrapolate an approximate stem length for my saddle height of 83cm. I don't know whether I should be trying a 100cm stem or a 50cm stem. I want the bars to be level with the saddle, and the more you raise the saddle height and bars, the shorter the cockpit becomes because the seat tube angle is 71 degrees and the head tube angle is 67.5 degrees.

    Thanks.
    http://www.bikingtoplay.blogspot.com/
    RIGID, not "ridged" or "ridgid"
    PEDAL, not "peddle." Unless you're selling stuff

  60. #560
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    seat_boy! I've read this entire thread several times and your setup and SeaBass_'s setup are the ones I've been paying the most attention to. So you went from a 100mm stem to a 60mm stem? Did you ever try a setback post like you mentioned?
    Last edited by happyriding; 5 Days Ago at 09:02 PM.

  61. #561
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    1. Jones H-bar pack? The shallow one, the deeper one, or neither?

    2. Grips: Kraton standard, Kraton soft, or EVA foam?

  62. #562
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    On my original blue Jones, I briefly tried a shorter stem with a setback seatpost, but I really didn't like it. There wasn't enough weight on the front, and I found myself sliding forward on the saddle all the time.

    I might switch to a longer stem as I get more fit and flexible over this summer, but I'm enjoying the more upright position of the shorter stem for now.

    Quote Originally Posted by happyriding View Post
    seat_boy! I've read this entire thread several times and your setup and SeaBass_'s setup are the ones I've been paying the most attention to. So you went from a 100mm stem to a 60mm stem? Did you ever try a setback post like you mentioned?
    http://www.bikingtoplay.blogspot.com/
    RIGID, not "ridged" or "ridgid"
    PEDAL, not "peddle." Unless you're selling stuff

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    Hey all- so just reading most of this thread that i am subscribed to, I look like I would fall into the 24"/med frame for the LWB (5' 11"). I am wondering what the actual measurement from axle to axle would be for this fine machine? I have a bunch of $$ invested in ti Mukluk, which is very capable of just about anything (less single track). I really like the fact that the Jones is a longer bike, and being so would think it would track better and not be as squirrely as a shorter wheel based bike. They were talking about this when I saw a post on the newer Salsa Black borrow. So then would it be worth it to change horses to a Jones..... thinking out loud.

  64. #564
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    Quote Originally Posted by timboat View Post
    Hey all- so just reading most of this thread that i am subscribed to, I look like I would fall into the 24"/med frame for the LWB (5' 11"). I am wondering what the actual measurement from axle to axle would be for this fine machine?

    Wheelbase

    24" LWB: 1175mm or 46.26″
    25" LWB: 1205mm or 47.44″

  65. #565
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    seat_boy,

    Are your 170mm cranks (and EBB position?) helping with pedal strikes?

  66. #566
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    Yes. I keep the bottom bracket near the top position as well, for that reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by happyriding View Post
    seat_boy,

    Are your 170mm cranks (and EBB position?) helping with pedal strikes?
    http://www.bikingtoplay.blogspot.com/
    RIGID, not "ridged" or "ridgid"
    PEDAL, not "peddle." Unless you're selling stuff

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