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  1. #1
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    New question here. The future for 29+ ?

    Ok, yet another 29+ predictions post
    I don't want to prophecy 29+ is dead or dying, not at all. But in my opinion it's going into even smaller niche now. I see that Trek is abandoning it's 29x3.0 line of bikes this year - Stache is now frame only, same for 1120 and future for Full Stache is probably dim. Trek was the biggest 29+ supporting brand and I think it's a bad news they are moving away from it.

    For me, the biggest problem of 29+ is a poor selection of tires. And it gets worse every year. It was the reason I've moved from Full Stache to Fuel EX recently and it was huge improvement to tell the truth. I'm still keeping my Full Stache frame but mostly for bikepacking journeys.

  2. #2
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    Will it be relegated to *gulp*.....Ebikes?


    and those of us that keep the faith?
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaddyFatStax View Post
    Will it be relegated to *gulp*.....Ebikes?
    Doubt it will. Ebikes tires standard seems to be settled down to 2.6 with tougher casings. I don't really see the point in tougher ebike tires - because the weight difference in bikes is pretty minor and ebikes getting lighter every year. All this ebike specific tires seems to be a marketing trend rather than necessity.

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    I have ended up in the same conclusion... I love plus tires (3.0), but guess I will have to settle for plus-ish tires (2.6 - 2.8) on the next bike.

    Looking at the current offerings in this range, the one bike I found that can run 2.8 in the rear is the Pole Evolink. For 2.6 the list is quite a bit longer.

    The list of tires in 2.8 is also quite a short list...

    So I guess it will be some combo of 3.0/2.6, 2.8/2.6 or 2.6/2.6 moving forward.

  5. #5
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    Plus front and 2.25/2.4 rear 29er tires have worked perfectly for me (prior to when all the plus frames came out. I don't care what happens to the relative popularity so long as tires remain available. I run 650b 2.6 rear and "matching" 2.8 front or "mullet" 3.0 29er on one of my single speeds for new & improved fun and excitement
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mebaru View Post
    I see that Trek is abandoning it's 29x3.0 line of bikes this year.
    Really? What is your source for this ^^?

    The future for 29+ ?-29-.jpg
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  7. #7
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    Too bad bike & component manufacturers donít sell whatís best.

    Instead, they sell what sells.

    Iím digging my newish 29x3 hardtail. And whenever the time comes that I turn to ebiking, yeah, Iíll absolutely want one with 29x3Ē wheels/tires.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mebaru View Post
    For me, the biggest problem of 29+ is a poor selection of tires.
    29+ tires:

    - Maxxis Rekon+
    - Maxxis DHF
    - Maxxis DHR
    - Surly Knard
    - Surly Dirt Wizard
    - Bonty XR4
    - Bonty XR2
    - Teravail Coronado

    I could go on.....

    Personally I only need two decent 29+ tires.

    #1 - a fast rolling tire for gravel/low tech MTBing/bikepacking.

    #2 - Aggressive knobby for techy MTBing.

    If I can get both these ^^^ tires I'm not fussed if there are two 29+ tires or ten 29+ tire options. To some degree if a few tires drop out of the mix the remaining 29+ tires will get more purchase volume, which makes them more viable.
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    A great list for dry-weather riding...! =D

    But the options for mixed weather and especially wet roots and rocks is a bit underwhelming I think.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freddy_G View Post
    A great list for dry-weather riding...! =D

    But the options for mixed weather and especially wet roots and rocks is a bit underwhelming I think.
    I live on Vancouver Island. Canada's PNWet. I have no issues riding wet rocks and roots and mud with these tires.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I live on Vancouver Island. Canada's PNWet. I have no issues riding wet rocks and roots and mud with these tires.
    Then I can only congratulate you on being a superior rider then myself =)

    I must admit that I do struggle sometimes with my XR4s (and from reading other comments here, the Minions for example is not much better).

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Really? What is your source for this ^^?

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    I've seen multiple people on FB that work in or manage Trek shops, they all have said the same thing. Have another buddy that works at a LBS, who said the local Trek rep told him last year that is wasn't looking good for the Stache.

    Everyone is saying frame only for 2021 and limited quantities, as they want to retain warranty stock.
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  13. #13
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    Same story as 27.5 x 3.0, but a year later. I just gave in and went 2.8, its not as bad as everyone predicted it would be.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    29+ tires:

    - Maxxis Rekon+
    - Maxxis DHF
    - Maxxis DHR
    - Surly Knard
    - Surly Dirt Wizard
    - Bonty XR4
    - Bonty XR2
    - Teravail Coronado

    I could go on.....

    Personally I only need two decent 29+ tires.

    #1 - a fast rolling tire for gravel/low tech MTBing/bikepacking.

    #2 - Aggressive knobby for techy MTBing.

    If I can get both these ^^^ tires I'm not fussed if there are two 29+ tires or ten 29+ tire options. To some degree if a few tires drop out of the mix the remaining 29+ tires will get more purchase volume, which makes them more viable.
    Well over half of the tyres you have listed are no longer made and only the remaining stock is going to sale out fast.
    3.00'◊29" is only going to be available from Surly for the future.
    A few 2.8"◊29" are going to be available for the next few years.
    It's all going 2.6"◊29" from now on.
    The customer's have voted with their feet.
    Yes I do have a 29+ but I'm going with 2.6" on my Jones LWB Spaceframe.
    Happy Hunting for tyres.

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  15. #15
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    2.5 rear and 29x.2.8" front

    2.5 and some 29x2.6" is about is fat as my stays can fit in back. I hope 29plus tires continue to be available and we see more selection with the 29x2.8 to 3" sizes
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The future for 29+ ?-a77508a7-1917-4bd4-b6eb-871787ea523e.jpg  

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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardmtnbiker View Post
    The future for 29+ ?-1347669d1594321616-future-29-a77508a7-1917-4bd4-b6eb-871787ea523e.jpg
    A SevEnve!
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  17. #17
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    I think itís a real shame that the support for 29 plus from the manufacturers seems to be dwindling. We all know (tongue in cheek) that 29Ē won the plus war too, yet that doesnít seem to be enough for the key players to take note of what works well for a lot of people. Unfortunately you donít see plus bikes at WC events or in the EWS and theyíre the events and riders that sells the bikes.

    Iíve been on 29x3.0Ē for a few years now, I definitely love the way they ride, but Iíve found that 2.6Ē works really well too, I would have liked to have tried 29 plus on a full suspension bike but theyíre not readily available over here in the UK, the Full Stacheís BB height worried me too much to gamble on that one on the terrain I ride regularly.

    Wide rims are hard to get hold of, as are Superboost hubs, tyres etc.

    Iíd like to try 29x2.8 but itís the same old story and as a result the axe swings faster towards the neck of plus bikes...

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    29+ tires:

    - Maxxis Rekon+
    - Maxxis DHF
    - Maxxis DHR
    - Surly Knard
    - Surly Dirt Wizard
    - Bonty XR4
    - Bonty XR2
    - Teravail Coronado
    The list of 29+ tires basically consist of hard pack, dry weather XC / bikepacking / light trail tires where some tires are in outdated casings, and some tires that are discontinued and hard to get.

    Minion 29x3.0 plain sucks in wet despite of its pedigree. XR4 (SE4 actually) is my favorite all-around 29+ tire but it doesn't work in all conditions.

    Coronado is similar to Rekon+ but heavy. I tried it in tough casing and wasn't impressed - somewhat fast rolling but cornering isn't great. It's a good bikepacking / XC tire but I definitely won't take them to my local trails.

    WTB Vigilante 29x2.8" is a monster tire but slow and heavy as hell. Overall, I really like WTB tires because they are high volume true to size and bigger than maxxis but wtb light casing isn't really durable and tough casing is heavier than rivals.

    Currently I have Dissector 29x2.6 / Aggressor 29x2.5 on my new Fuel EX and this combo (while not being the best) is both faster and offers more grip than double XR4/SE4 I ran on my Full Stache. Ok, aggressor is sketchy in wet and mud but not more than XR4/SE4.

    My point is - we will hardly see more new true 29+ tires in the future. Even hardcore bikepackers have moved to 29x2.6" as a golden standard. Manufactures don't have any reasons to produce modern 29x3" tires because demand is so low.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Really? What is your source for this ^^?
    Basically info from my local trek distributor, rumors and evidences on Trek websites.

  20. #20
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    Been riding 29x3.0 since Surly first made them available. Much better selection now.

    I rode 29x2.55 from WTB before that and they were great....... for that time. I have some 29x2.6 and they are nowhere near the performance level of the 29x3.0.
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  21. #21
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    You could take the reins in hand and contract to make your own tire, two entrepreneurs did this very thing to create a off road worthy 36er tire. I believe the mfg was Vee Rubber. Tires sold for $200 each.
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  22. #22
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    For the past few years I have built nothing but fat and 29+ bikes. For customers... People besides myself that dig the idea of 29 x 3 inch tires. WHY would it go away??
    I like turtles

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYrr496 View Post
    For the past few years I have built nothing but fat and 29+ bikes. For customers... People besides myself that dig the idea of 29 x 3 inch tires. WHY would it go away??
    Sucks... 29x3.0 is amazing. And 29x3.25 is even more amazing. Like the first time you went from 2.35 to 2.6. Iím already in mourning that people didnít vote with their wallets. Theyíll never know what they missed.

  24. #24
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    After the supply of XR2 and 4's dry up I guess my go to combo will be Knard and Dirt Wizard. I'll never spend another dime with Bontrager if they truly squash such excellent tires.
    I like turtles

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus View Post
    Too bad bike & component manufacturers donít sell whatís best.

    Instead, they sell what sells.
    Sorry, I know we're supposed to be mourning the loss of 29+ in this thread but I guess I'm the kind of guy who laughs at a funeral cuz I couldn't help but chuckle at the above statement. Damn them for selling what sells...!

    On topic, I'm lucky enough to not need anything besides the XR2 for my trails and style of riding so as long as they hang around for a while I'll be okay.

  26. #26
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    Frames with rear space from different manufacturers are what are needed. More frames from the main manufacturers would equal more demand. 29 x 2.5 & 2.6 rear space is becoming more norm finally.

  27. #27
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    @ Freddy_G

    Maybe you can benefit from finding you PSI sweet spot. It took me a week of playing but last season my rear Rekon 27.5x2.8 was amazing(except for mud) and i read a lot of good about XR4.

    It might come from retailers. Maybe to compete with more direct sellers they want less inventory. About a year ago chatting in a shop i heard the offering of woman design bikes is going down.

    Anyway, i just bought a Giant with 27.5 X 35I rims on 2.6 but i will use 2.8.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by eb1888 View Post
    Frames with rear space from different manufacturers are what are needed. More frames from the main manufacturers would equal more demand. 29 x 2.5 & 2.6 rear space is becoming more norm finally.
    Yes, I think this is a very good point. If more frames could take 2.8 and 3.0 tires (like using adjustable dropouts), the demand for plus sized tires would be much higher.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by NZPeterG View Post
    Well over half of the tyres you have listed are no longer made and only the remaining stock is going to sale out fast.
    3.00'◊29" is only going to be available from Surly for the future.
    A few 2.8"◊29" are going to be available for the next few years.
    It's all going 2.6"◊29" from now on.
    The customer's have voted with their feet.
    Yes I do have a 29+ but I'm going with 2.6" on my Jones LWB Spaceframe.
    Happy Hunting for tyres.

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    That is WAY exaggerated!

    The Rekon and Coronado are pretty new tires and show no signs of going away. They are only 2.8 though...

    The DHF, DHR, and Chronicle have been rumored to be going away for years now, yet they are still listed on the Maxxis website. They also seem to available from multiple sources online, so maybe their demise is not accurate??

    I have not heard any rumors of the XR2 and XR4 going anywhere. Even if Trek ditches the Staches(Which would absolutely suck!), I imagine they'd sell the tires still to support existing customers.

    Again, I've not heard any rumors of the Knard and Dirt Wizard going anywhere.

    So where are all these tires that are no longer made?

    The list is also missing tires from WTB, Vittoria, Vee Rubber, Innova, Duro, and Terrene (if you count 2.8).

    So yeah, 29+ seems to be in a recession, happens with all things that get trendy. It's certainly a niche and will not be supported by most manufacturers, especially the bigger ones. I've been on at least 3.0 tires since the original Knard came out and thoroughly enjoy the platform. It's certainly disappointing to hear of the demise of the Stache, that's probably the best mainstream 29+ bike ever. Luckily, there's always the used market and custom builders, both of which aren't going anywhere.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeny View Post
    That is WAY exaggerated!
    So where are all these tires that are no longer made?
    Yes. As long as I can buy a tire I'm not calling it dead.

    Heck Surly is still making 26 x 3.0" Dirt Wizards and Knards. If 26+ lives on 29+ is just fine.

    As I noted above I don't need 10+ tire options to be happy. I could roll my 29+ bikes just fine on DWs and Knards if push came to shove.
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Yes. As long as I can buy a tire I'm not calling it dead.

    Heck Surly is still making 26 x 3.0" Dirt Wizards and Knards. If 26+ lives on 29+ is just fine.

    As I noted above I don't need 10+ tire options to be happy. I could roll my 29+ bikes just fine on DWs and Knards if push came to shove.
    Yeah, I'll openly admit I am probably overly fussy about the setup of quite a few things on my bikes like the cockpit, shifting, controls position, suspension, but oddly enough for some reason tires has never been one of them.

    Don't get me wrong, I do have a preference when buying new. Howeveer perhaps I'm lucky because I have found just about every tire I've had just worked well enough and didn;t warrant replacement before it was sufficiently worn out.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYrr496 View Post
    I'll never spend another dime with Bontrager if they truly squash such excellent tires.

    I understand where you're coming from, but the bottom line is that if a tire is discontinued, it's *because* not enough people spent their dimes to support it.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    I understand where you're coming from, but the bottom line is that if a tire is discontinued, it's *because* not enough people spent their dimes to support it.
    Deep down I know that. Still pisses me off.
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  34. #34
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    Funny this subject has come up.

    I rode a 27.5+ HT for 3 years and last summer switch to a Trek Stache.

    I have noticed no other plus sized bikes for a long time (years) on the trails. Live in Bend where there lots of local Mt Bikers and LOTS of Mt Biking tourists.

    Has 29+ bikes become the "Telemark skiing" of the Mt Bike world? :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by rushman3 View Post

    Has 29+ bikes become the "Telemark skiing" of the Mt Bike world? :-)

    Googled telemark skiing. Went down an hour-long rabbit hole. Learned a lot. No regrets.
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by rushman3 View Post
    Funny this subject has come up.

    I rode a 27.5+ HT for 3 years and last summer switch to a Trek Stache.

    I have noticed no other plus sized bikes for a long time (years) on the trails. Live in Bend where there lots of local Mt Bikers and LOTS of Mt Biking tourists.

    Has 29+ bikes become the "Telemark skiing" of the Mt Bike world? :-)
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    Nice analogy.

    I was way into telemark back in the day, it is the best skiing form ever invented, itís also the hardest, and now itís the rarest. Sad.

    So yeah, sometimes great things fail to catch on, the world moves on.

    But who knows, 26 x 3 was a hit and died, only to be reborn as 27.5 x 3 and 29 x 3, fat bike tires are a newer tire size and seem to be hanging tight.

    Long live tele!

    Quote Originally Posted by rushman3 View Post
    Funny this subject has come up.

    I rode a 27.5+ HT for 3 years and last summer switch to a Trek Stache.

    I have noticed no other plus sized bikes for a long time (years) on the trails. Live in Bend where there lots of local Mt Bikers and LOTS of Mt Biking tourists.

    Has 29+ bikes become the "Telemark skiing" of the Mt Bike world? :-)
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  38. #38
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    26 x 3 was Gazza back in the day. Heavy as a complete bike at the time and DH friendly but not so much for other formats.

    For those that love 3.****yeah, you better start hoarding em whilst ya can! The dictatorship has determined that 2.6 AKA 2.****that is what we want to ride. Couldn't be further from why I own plus bikes and ride the hell outta them.
    Being that I do not treat the plusser as a DH/freeride, I have no interest in load range F tires for em either. Some folks are in areas that benefit with a heavy duty casing and others are fine with a light weight casing. All about need for the terrain. When a 3.0 weighs in the same as a 5.05, just no!
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  39. #39
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    Know whats funny? YEARS ago, I hoarded a bunch of tires and one of my favorites was the Tioga Psycho K. A month or so ago I was in my brothers shop and he was looking for something on a shelf that probably had not been rearranged since I worked there 17 years ago. He produced a never used, in the box Psycho K. We marveled at this rubber time capsule. Still in decent condition too.

    Guess I better start buying some XR2s and XR4s.
    I like turtles

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Nice analogy.

    I was way into telemark back in the day, it is the best skiing form ever invented, itís also the hardest, and now itís the rarest. Sad.

    So yeah, sometimes great things fail to catch on, the world moves on.

    But who knows, 26 x 3 was a hit and died, only to be reborn as 27.5 x 3 and 29 x 3, fat bike tires are a newer tire size and seem to be hanging tight.

    Long live tele!
    Nobody cares you ride 29+ 😜

  41. #41
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    The problem is D other guy.
    You know he bought a new ***better*** fat the 27.
    We can boycot new standards that will avoid diminishing the value of our bikes.
    Some for no good reason think new is better so the manufacturers
    and retailers just make our toys a thing of the past.
    I still love my 20 speeds fat on 26 and if we did not buy the 27 we would all be on 26 with tons of options for tires and rims.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYrr496 View Post
    Know whats funny? YEARS ago, I hoarded a bunch of tires and one of my favorites was the Tioga Psycho K. A month or so ago I was in my brothers shop and he was looking for something on a shelf that probably had not been rearranged since I worked there 17 years ago. He produced a never used, in the box Psycho K. We marveled at this rubber time capsule. Still in decent condition too.

    Guess I better start buying some XR2s and XR4s.
    Yep, I'm good with these two also.
    You can have my Plus tires when you pry them from my cold dead hands...
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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by upstateSC-rider View Post
    Yep, I'm good with these two also.
    You can have my Plus tires when you pry them from my cold dead hands...
    *breaks out a reef bar*
    Get fAt, Stay fAt, Ride fAt
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  44. #44
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    Iíve just tried to order a 29x3.0 XR2 from the UK Bontrager site and theyíre no longer listing the tyre in that size, the same for the XR4. Looks like Iíll be running Minions...

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    Pretty much on the head, nail that is, but part of me misses it

    Quote Originally Posted by tri-tele View Post
    Nobody cares you ride 29+ 
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  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just J View Post
    Iíve just tried to order a 29x3.0 XR2 from the UK Bontrager site and theyíre no longer listing the tyre in that size, the same for the XR4. Looks like Iíll be running Minions...
    I can't find any for sale either which is annoying as I'd thought about ordering up a spare set but didn't realise they were on their way out so quickly until I noticed Trek no longer sell the Stache as a complete bike.

    What is the tyre you're going with instead?

    Given there's few Staches for sale second hand in the UK and not a good price I'm wondering about buying a frame from Trek while I can in case anything happens to mine.
    2014 Trek Fuel Ex 8
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  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMcL7 View Post
    I can't find any for sale either which is annoying as I'd thought about ordering up a spare set but didn't realise they were on their way out so quickly until I noticed Trek no longer sell the Stache as a complete bike.

    What is the tyre you're going with instead?

    Given there's few Staches for sale second hand in the UK and not a good price I'm wondering about buying a frame from Trek while I can in case anything happens to mine.
    I have a DHF/DHR Pair in 3.0 which Iíve got on the bike at the moment and Iím picking up a pair of Rekon 2.8ís this next week too. Iím good for a year or two with the tyres Iíve got here.

    Trek say theyíre keeping frame back for warranty so you should be good.

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    JustJ and JohnMcL7 -- sorry that you guys live in a third-world country where these are no longer available.

    That said, going to Minions sounds even more dark-ages. Happy to ship some Bontrager tires across the pond if you'd like.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just J View Post
    Iíve just tried to order a 29x3.0 XR2 from the UK Bontrager site and theyíre no longer listing the tyre in that size, the same for the XR4. Looks like Iíll be running Minions...
    I just checked the Trek UK site and the XR2 appears to be in stock: https://www.trekbikes.com/gb/en_GB/g...-tyre/p/11866/

    This is the 120 tpi Team Issue version, and the black colour. For some reason if you select the Black/Grey version only the narrower tyres are available. The XR4 is only available in Black/Grey. The Australian site does something similar.

    Tim

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    I got this answer from Trek 3 weeks ago:

    "I believe you contacted us regarding the Trek Stache 2021, unfortunately this model is being discontinued for the 2021 model year.

    Sorry about this.

    Kind regards,
    Evan Carter
    Trek Bicycle Corporation Ltd.
    Customer Care
    TEL: +44 (0) 1908 360140
    Registered in England No: 2355933
    Registered Office: 9 Sherbourne Drive, Tilbrook, Milton Keynes, MK7 8HX"

    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Really? What is your source for this ^^?


  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Yes. As long as I can buy a tire I'm not calling it dead.

    Heck Surly is still making 26 x 3.0" Dirt Wizards and Knards. If 26+ lives on 29+ is just fine.

    As I noted above I don't need 10+ tire options to be happy. I could roll my 29+ bikes just fine on DWs and Knards if push came to shove.
    same here...

    and I don't know of ANY tire that is good on wet roots....except for studded tires....

    I guess i look at it this way:

    if I can still find parts for my 55 year old drum set, I will probably be able to find tires for my bikes as the years go....
    Go Practice. Figure it out - Fleas

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wombat View Post
    I just checked the Trek UK site and the XR2 appears to be in stock: https://www.trekbikes.com/gb/en_GB/g...-tyre/p/11866/

    This is the 120 tpi Team Issue version, and the black colour. For some reason if you select the Black/Grey version only the narrower tyres are available. The XR4 is only available in Black/Grey. The Australian site does something similar.

    Tim
    Thanks for this, I've ordered a couple of XR2's and XR4's.
    2014 Trek Fuel Ex 8
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  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wombat View Post
    I just checked the Trek UK site and the XR2 appears to be in stock: https://www.trekbikes.com/gb/en_GB/g...-tyre/p/11866/

    This is the 120 tpi Team Issue version, and the black colour. For some reason if you select the Black/Grey version only the narrower tyres are available. The XR4 is only available in Black/Grey. The Australian site does something similar.

    Tim
    Aah brilliant thank you very much!

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    Wait a minute... I have been so jonesing to try 29+ but let's just say, have been a bit busy the last couple/few years and riding my fatty. FINALLY ordered myself some 29 x 45 (i40) Nextie rims!

    Now, that I'm looking for some 29 x 3.0 tires it's looking grim out there! WTH?!

    Please tell me it's just because of a stock/availability thing and NOT discontinuing 29/3.0!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkerik View Post
    Wait a minute... I have been so jonesing to try 29+ but let's just say, have been a bit busy the last couple/few years and riding my fatty. FINALLY ordered myself some 29 x 45 (i40) Nextie rims!

    Now, that I'm looking for some 29 x 3.0 tires it's looking grim out there! WTH?!

    Please tell me it's just because of a stock/availability thing and NOT discontinuing 29/3.0!
    The industry has a boner for 2.6 which is minus in the plus world...
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  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkerik View Post
    Wait a minute... I have been so jonesing to try 29+ but let's just say, have been a bit busy the last couple/few years and riding my fatty. FINALLY ordered myself some 29 x 45 (i40) Nextie rims!

    Now, that I'm looking for some 29 x 3.0 tires it's looking grim out there! WTH?!

    Please tell me it's just because of a stock/availability thing and NOT discontinuing 29/3.0!

    Trek has both the XR2 and XR4 29x3.0 in stock. Put the XR4 on the front and the XR2 on the rear and you are as good as gold.
    Change begins by doing something different.

  57. #57
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    How about the Dirt Wizards?
    On closeout right now but donít see a replacement version? Should I stay away?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkerik View Post
    How about the Dirt Wizards?
    On closeout right now but donít see a replacement version? Should I stay away?
    I think it's just the non-tubeless ready (previous version) DWs that are on closeout.

    Currently the case with the Knard and several of the fat tires.
    "I ride to clear my head, my head is clearer when I'm riding SS. Therefore, I choose to ride SS."~ Fullrange Drew

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkerik View Post
    How about the Dirt Wizards?
    On closeout right now but donít see a replacement version? Should I stay away?
    Surly is changing their tire line with tubeless ready. DW's on closeout and you get less expensive rubber and pay up later for new ones.
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  60. #60
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    Thanks.

    So, what I have found available currently:

    Bonty XR4, XR2
    Panaracer FatB Nimble
    closeout DW's
    Duro Crux 3.25 remaining stock

    Do the DW's mount up tubeless and hold up fairly well? I'm pretty light at about 160 lbs. and running the nextie's i40 rims on my 907 Whiteout and bluto fork.

    Is there any other tires currently available I'm missing?

    I think my best choice besides the 3.25 is the XR4 or the DW as I want something more aggressive. Wet New England roots rocks singletrack...

  61. #61
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    My buddy is running old school Dirt Wizards tubeless just fine.
    I like turtles

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkerik View Post
    Thanks.

    So, what I have found available currently:

    Bonty XR4, XR2
    Panaracer FatB Nimble
    closeout DW's
    Duro Crux 3.25 remaining stock

    Do the DW's mount up tubeless and hold up fairly well? I'm pretty light at about 160 lbs. and running the nextie's i40 rims on my 907 Whiteout and bluto fork.

    Is there any other tires currently available I'm missing?

    I think my best choice besides the 3.25 is the XR4 or the DW as I want something more aggressive. Wet New England roots rocks singletrack...
    The Crux is available, but only in 60tpi. Iíve only run the 120tpi, but others have had good luck running the 60 version tubeless. I love this tire, and have run it exclusively up front on my rigid SS.

    Looks like youíre missing Maxxis Chronicle and Minion 3.0 tire which still appear to be available, as well as the Vee Bulldozer (120tpi 3.25), which is a screaming deal. I just bought a backup for 50 bucks. I run that tire out back.

    DW works fine tubeless, but Iíd only run the 60tpi if you have any sharp rocks and/or like to run low pressure. Itís also only a 2.8 and weighs ~1350g.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkerik View Post
    Thanks.

    So, what I have found available currently:

    Bonty XR4, XR2
    Panaracer FatB Nimble
    closeout DW's
    Duro Crux 3.25 remaining stock

    Do the DW's mount up tubeless and hold up fairly well? I'm pretty light at about 160 lbs. and running the nextie's i40 rims on my 907 Whiteout and bluto fork.

    Is there any other tires currently available I'm missing?

    I think my best choice besides the 3.25 is the XR4 or the DW as I want something more aggressive. Wet New England roots rocks singletrack...
    For rear a 2.8 Rekon 3c is a tire i would trust.

  64. #64
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    I don't see the Crux on the Duro website nor any other reference to any bike tires at all anywhere on their site! Hmm, I hope I can still get a pair of 120 tpi Crux somewhere as that's one of the tires that prompted this whole thing for me in the first place.

    I'll check out the Maxxis offerings.

    Where did you get the Vee Dozers? I can't seem to find them anywhere. I'll check around again. Although I don't think 3.25 in the rear and a smallish 3.0 in the front is going to work for me. How is the dozer in the front?

    Prob too much mud for a small knobbed Rekon but I might spring for smaller knobs in rear.

    Wow! Slim pickings! I thought 29+ would really be rolling by now. I really may have missed the boat on this one. Maybe just a lull in manufacturing due to the world craziness right now. Guess a couple tires is better than no tires.

    Thanks for all the info,

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkerik View Post
    I don't see the Crux on the Duro website nor any other reference to any bike tires at all anywhere on their site! Hmm, I hope I can still get a pair of 120 tpi Crux somewhere as that's one of the tires that prompted this whole thing for me in the first place.

    ...

    Where did you get the Vee Dozers? I can't seem to find them anywhere. I'll check around again. Although I don't think 3.25 in the rear and a smallish 3.0 in the front is going to work for me. How is the dozer in the front?
    Bulldozers:
    https://www.bicyclebuys.com/vee-tire...SABEgIBO_D_BwE

    Crux 60tpi:
    https://www.unicycle.com/duro-crux-2...iABEgKHjvD_BwE

    Never used the bulldozer up front. Itís one of those tires with a wider sidewall than tread, so seemed way better for a rear. Have read that others have tried them as fronts and liked Ďem. I can say that they have killer height and volume and are super durable. You should buy a bunch at 50 bucks and youíll be set for years!

  66. #66
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    I've been lurking on this thread only to emerge with a dumb question...

    I was a little late to the 29+ party, but I have a set of Chronicles, which are good for more off-road stuff, and a set of Vee Trax Fattys, which are almost a road tire (I like them, but they would work better on wider rims I think - my daughter has as set of 27.5 x 3.25 and I think they are very good all-around).

    Are both of these tires discontinued/limited supply?

    -F
    It's never easier - you just go faster.

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    Kirk, the crux and miner are listed in the Duro 2020 catalog. 60 tpi only.

    Blue sky has crux on sale very reasonably priced.
    Fat bís are fragile and stupid skinny like a 2.5. Or 2.6.

    Plus in general is limited in choice for real plus.
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  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by BansheeRune View Post
    Blue sky has crux on sale very reasonably priced.
    Damn, great find on the Crux! Time to order a second backup

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    Quote Originally Posted by CCSS View Post
    Damn, great find on the Crux! Time to order a second backup
    I found a pair of 120 TPI 3.0's on eBay and ordered em aand received a pair of 3.25's. Fvck! 55 bux for the pair was awesome but Sunspot cannot wear em so the Wildcat or Sarge I get to wear em...

    Was pissed at first but two bikes can wear em so not the end of the world.
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  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by BansheeRune View Post
    I found a pair of 120 TPI 3.0's on eBay and ordered em aand received a pair of 3.25's. Fvck! 55 bux for the pair was awesome but Sunspot cannot wear em so the Wildcat or Sarge I get to wear em...

    Was pissed at first but two bikes can wear em so not the end of the world.
    Dude, $27.50 each. You win.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCSS View Post
    Dude, $27.50 each. You win.
    Damn straight!

    Beats the hell outta unicycle dot com...
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  72. #72
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    .::.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    29+ tires:

    Personally I only need two decent 29+ tires.

    #1 - a fast rolling tire for gravel/low tech MTBing/bikepacking.

    #2 - Aggressive knobby for techy MTBing.

    If I can get both these ^^^ tires I'm not fussed if there are two 29+ tires or ten 29+ tire options. To some degree if a few tires drop out of the mix the remaining 29+ tires will get more purchase volume, which makes them more viable.
    This nails it quite well - the two things 29x [anything >2.5"] are great at are distance rolling with added capability, such as your backpacking use case, and the other is that they're a deceptively good answer in technical terrain where the only downside of this size is weight, albeit electric assist could make the case for those larger ones, and bikepacking would make it to where the XR2/Rekon (or really RekonRace) layout persists, and DW/DHF/DHR in Exo+ flavors take up the rest of the market share.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCSS View Post
    Bulldozers:
    https://www.bicyclebuys.com/vee-tire...SABEgIBO_D_BwE

    Crux 60tpi:
    https://www.unicycle.com/duro-crux-2...iABEgKHjvD_BwE

    Never used the bulldozer up front. Itís one of those tires with a wider sidewall than tread, so seemed way better for a rear. Have read that others have tried them as fronts and liked Ďem. I can say that they have killer height and volume and are super durable. You should buy a bunch at 50 bucks and youíll be set for years!
    Thanks for those links. Was close to finally pulling the trigger on a Crux at u.com's higher price when I saw this. Bought a Crux and a Dozer for grins.
    "People like GloyBoy are deaf. They are partisan, intellectually lazy & usually very angry." -Jaybo

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    Quote Originally Posted by CCSS View Post
    Bulldozers:
    https://www.bicyclebuys.com/vee-tire...SABEgIBO_D_BwE

    Crux 60tpi:
    https://www.unicycle.com/duro-crux-2...iABEgKHjvD_BwE

    Never used the bulldozer up front. Itís one of those tires with a wider sidewall than tread, so seemed way better for a rear. Have read that others have tried them as fronts and liked Ďem. I can say that they have killer height and volume and are super durable. You should buy a bunch at 50 bucks and youíll be set for years!
    Have the Bulldozers on my Stache, with the front mounted in reverse (saw some recommendations that it might help reduce self-steer).

    For our local riding (mostly dry) they work really well.

  76. #76
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    FWIW, I recently ordered a small pile of DHR's in 29 x 3.0" from QBP. Bought all that they had, and it looks like they have more inbound.

    So rumors of their death might be nothing more than just that.

    Also, in ordering some Vigilante 2.8's this AM I was told that they have a new version coming in spring of '21 -- much lighter than the current (not) Light version.

  77. #77
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    ^^Awesome!!^^
    I like turtles

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    I tried 29+ a couple summers ago on my fatbike and really enjoyed them. This past spring I moved the wheelset to my wifes bike and now she won't give them back! So I've started looking at maybe getting a dedicated 29+ rig, maybe even FS, and apparently the ship has sailed. Salsa woodsmoke and deadwood are dead, Trek (who I loathe, but was considering) is hinting at killing their Stache lineup, who else even has frames available besides going full custom?
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  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by g60vw View Post
    I tried 29+ a couple summers ago on my fatbike and really enjoyed them. This past spring I moved the wheelset to my wifes bike and now she won't give them back! So I've started looking at maybe getting a dedicated 29+ rig, maybe even FS, and apparently the ship has sailed. Salsa woodsmoke and deadwood are dead, Trek (who I loathe, but was considering) is hinting at killing their Stache lineup, who else even has frames available besides going full custom?
    Of my the top of my head, youíve got Surly, RSD, Jones, Kona, Carver, Lenz (for your FS) and for the time being, the Stache and 1120 from Trek.

    Thereís also the bikes direct stuff and plenty of eBay frames.

    And custom is awesome. Walt will make you a FS or a hard tail for a super fair price.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by g60vw View Post
    I tried 29+ a couple summers ago on my fatbike and really enjoyed them. This past spring I moved the wheelset to my wifes bike and now she won't give them back! So I've started looking at maybe getting a dedicated 29+ rig, maybe even FS, and apparently the ship has sailed. Salsa woodsmoke and deadwood are dead, Trek (who I loathe, but was considering) is hinting at killing their Stache lineup, who else even has frames available besides going full custom?
    I would be more worried about getting the tires than the actual frames...looks like we will all be back down to 2.6 in 3-5 years...unless Surly keeps the Knards and Dirt Wizards going...which knowing them, they probably will
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  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by g60vw View Post
    I tried 29+ a couple summers ago on my fatbike and really enjoyed them. This past spring I moved the wheelset to my wifes bike and now she won't give them back! So I've started looking at maybe getting a dedicated 29+ rig, maybe even FS, and apparently the ship has sailed. Salsa woodsmoke and deadwood are dead, Trek (who I loathe, but was considering) is hinting at killing their Stache lineup, who else even has frames available besides going full custom?
    I'm not a trek fanboi but love my stache, it's not dead mind you, but it's just a frame-only option in '21 apparently, you can build one up pretty easily.
    Demo'ed a deadwood, loved the roll-over capabilities but for fast trail riding it leaves a lot to be desired, probably great for bike-packing though.
    Niner Jet 9 RDO, Scalpel 29, XTC 650b, 04 Stumpjumper FSR Pro, Trek Rigid SS - No suspension, no gears....no problem

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    Salsa still makes the Fargo & that really doesn't seem like it's going away. It's very popular with bikepacking crowd. I would think Tervail will still make tires like the Coronado just for a bike like the Fargo.

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Also, in ordering some Vigilante 2.8's this AM I was told that they have a new version coming in spring of '21 -- much lighter than the current (not) Light version.
    Good to hear!!
    "I ride to clear my head, my head is clearer when I'm riding SS. Therefore, I choose to ride SS."~ Fullrange Drew

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    FWIW, I recently ordered a small pile of DHR's in 29 x 3.0" from QBP. Bought all that they had, and it looks like they have more inbound.

    So rumors of their death might be nothing more than just that.

    Also, in ordering some Vigilante 2.8's this AM I was told that they have a new version coming in spring of '21 -- much lighter than the current (not) Light version.
    If it weren't originally a rumor, the spate of communications from the plus crowd may have caused a change of heart for Maxxis. On the Vigilante front, great to hear for a '21 option with the Weight Watchers version!
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    I'm currently running a pair of Vittoria Bomboloni 29 x 3 on my Vassago Verhauen SS. I live in the North East, and the trail conditions are fine right now, but as soon as the weather starts to turn ugly these tires will surely let me down.

    What do you guys recommend for something with more traction?

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsalvaggio View Post
    I'm currently running a pair of Vittoria Bomboloni 29 x 3 on my Vassago Verhauen SS. I live in the North East, and the trail conditions are fine right now, but as soon as the weather starts to turn ugly these tires will surely let me down.

    What do you guys recommend for something with more traction?

    Describe the conditions you'll be riding in?

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Describe the conditions you'll be riding in?

    Hey thanks for the quick reply back, and great question.

    My local trails are single track dirt trails with lots of roots, and some rocks. I also travel often up to New England, and those trails have tons of rocks. Depending upon the weather the conditions, I can go from bone dry (right now) to damp tacky clay like dirt. I avoid riding after a rain storm, and never ride on pavement or sand. Keep in mind I'm riding SS so rolling resistance is always a concern.

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    Id take a look at the WTB Vigilante might what you are looking for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Funoutside View Post
    Id take a look at the WTB Vigilante might what you are looking for.

    Thanks but it looks like the Vigilante's only go up to 2.8 wide, there's a noticeable difference in ride quality once you go to 3.0 wide.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsalvaggio View Post
    Hey thanks for the quick reply back, and great question.

    My local trails are single track dirt trails with lots of roots, and some rocks. I also travel often up to New England, and those trails have tons of rocks. Depending upon the weather the conditions, I can go from bone dry (right now) to damp tacky clay like dirt. I avoid riding after a rain storm, and never ride on pavement or sand. Keep in mind I'm riding SS so rolling resistance is always a concern.
    Hi, i am a bit north, about the same conditions. For rear i think you would like a Rekon 2.8. I have been on 2.6 since i bought a bike 6 weeks ago but yesterday i bought a 2.8 for the coming conditions. If you want more climbing power just turn it around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 33red View Post
    Hi, i am a bit north, about the same conditions. For rear i think you would like a Rekon 2.8. I have been on 2.6 since i bought a bike 6 weeks ago but yesterday i bought a 2.8 for the coming conditions. If you want more climbing power just turn it around.
    Thanks. I wish they made the Rekon in a 3.0 width, but I might end up with a 2.8 out back and a 3.0 upfront. I'm thinking a DHF/Rekon combo might be good.

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    Something got lost in translation with the DHF and DHR when they went to 3.0. Solid casing construction and reinforcement, but they are *sketchy* on wet roots and rocks.

    I loved the DHF in 2.5", but I no longer want anything to do with it in 3.0".

    Chronicle is sketchy on wet roots, but I think that's more tread design than rubber related. Haven't yet ridden Rekon in the wet. Don't really have plans to.

    If you must have a 3.0", Bontrager XR4.

    If you can live with 2.8", Vigilante.

    Despite it's size, Vigilante is much grippier in the wet.

  93. #93
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    Hi Mike,
    What are your thoughts on the XR4 vs XR2 in 29x3.0 for Arizona riding?

    Thanks
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    Quote Originally Posted by azjonboy View Post
    Hi Mike,
    What are your thoughts on the XR4 vs XR2 in 29x3.0 for Arizona riding?

    Thanks

    AZ is diverse! Where specifically?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Something got lost in translation with the DHF and DHR when they went to 3.0. Solid casing construction and reinforcement, but they are *sketchy* on wet roots and rocks.

    I loved the DHF in 2.5", but I no longer want anything to do with it in 3.0".

    Chronicle is sketchy on wet roots, but I think that's more tread design than rubber related. Haven't yet ridden Rekon in the wet. Don't really have plans to.

    If you must have a 3.0", Bontrager XR4.

    If you can live with 2.8", Vigilante.

    Despite it's size, Vigilante is much grippier in the wet.
    Thanks again. That's unfortunate about the DHF and DHR. I had a set of 27.5 x 2.8 on a different bike, and they were pretty good at sticking to the rocks. I think the Bontrager XR4 is my best choice.

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    Once you go fat (well... plus) you never go back!!

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  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Something got lost in translation with the DHF and DHR when they went to 3.0. Solid casing construction and reinforcement, but they are *sketchy* on wet roots and rocks.

    I loved the DHF in 2.5", but I no longer want anything to do with it in 3.0".

    Chronicle is sketchy on wet roots, but I think that's more tread design than rubber related. Haven't yet ridden Rekon in the wet. Don't really have plans to.

    If you must have a 3.0", Bontrager XR4.

    If you can live with 2.8", Vigilante.

    Despite it's size, Vigilante is much grippier in the wet.
    our winter riding conditions here in Central Ohio are much the same, and I have been scouting something other than the Knards on my Krampus...

    will the Vigilante fit alright on Rabbit Holes? I think the Bontragers will...
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsalvaggio View Post
    I'm currently running a pair of Vittoria Bomboloni 29 x 3 on my Vassago Verhauen SS. I live in the North East, and the trail conditions are fine right now, but as soon as the weather starts to turn ugly these tires will surely let me down.

    What do you guys recommend for something with more traction?
    Do they still make the cannoli?

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    If Trek is giving up on the Stache and taking the Bontrager 29x3 tires with it, is the same fate going to face B Fat wheels in a year or two? Or do they think Stache customers will move to Farleys?

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    Quote Originally Posted by leeboh View Post
    Do they still make the cannoli?
    Not sure, wasnít able to locate them on their website?


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    Mostly Phx and vicinity. Rocks, sand hard pack. Aggressive cross country stuff. Throwin some Mormon and National on occasion. Picket Post, Black Canyon. Even the Dells in Prescott.
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  102. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by azjonboy View Post
    Mostly Phx and vicinity. Rocks, sand hard pack. Aggressive cross country stuff. Throwin some Mormon and National on occasion. Picket Post, Black Canyon. Even the Dells in Prescott.

    OK. I've ridden those zones a fair bit on 29+. XR4 up front, for sure. XR2 has OK grip in the kitty litter over hardpack, and rolls really fast, but it's not a super durable casing. Only you know if this matters with your riding style.

    If you tend to cut casings or slash sidewalls, either find a Chronicle for the rear, or stick with the XR4 there, too.

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    Interesting info, Mike. Thanks

    Been running the XR2 since Chupa days and really like the fast rolling. Seems to grip ok, but always wondered about an XR4 up front.

    Iíve cut one sidewall at the bead of an XR2 out of about 5 tires.

    Might give the XR4 a try up front and see how it compares on the pebbly stuff.

    Thanks!
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    Quote Originally Posted by targnik View Post
    Once you go fat (well... plus) you never go back!!
    Still holding out hope for 29x5.0 (or bigger)...

  105. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by targnik View Post
    Once you go fat (well... plus) you never go back!!

    Sent from my HD1900 using Tapatalk
    TRUTH!! I have no interest in riding smaller tires. My Krampus is my fast bike. My other bike is full time five inch fat.
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  106. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimTucker View Post
    Still holding out hope for 29x5.0 (or bigger)...
    I've actually sent a mail to surly a while ago, asking them to build a 29x4.0 trail bike. Would be fun to try a real monstertruck of a bike, but i don't think that's going to be built since 29x3.0 is diminishing...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Transwave View Post
    I've actually sent a mail to surly a while ago, asking them to build a 29x4.0 trail bike. Would be fun to try a real monstertruck of a bike, but i don't think that's going to be built since 29x3.0 is diminishing...
    The problem is that would make a long CS and wheelbase.
    A short person could not be riding it for hours(too stretched) and others might not like the handling.
    It is more a showroom thing than a commercal success where $$ comes from cheap manufacturing added to many sales.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 33red View Post
    The problem is that would make a long CS and wheelbase.
    A short person could not be riding it for hours(too stretched) and others might not like the handling.
    It is more a showroom thing than a commercal success where $$ comes from cheap manufacturing added to many sales.
    I've long since realized that my preferences and preferred setup is far from the norm.

    I use midfoot pedal positioning, 140mm cranks, & a noseless saddle -- all of which result in pretty big adjustments to where the ideal saddle position is relative to the BB (somewhat higher and more forward).

    My theory is that with a custom frame I could get away with a bigger BB drop, a steep seat tube angle and reach that's higher than standard for "my size" and still have a comfortable seated position.

    As you say -- it could very well be a showroom thing where one tire manufacturer commits to making something in the size like Vee has been doing with 36x2.25, despite the general lack of frames to go with it. (Now if they'd do 36x3.0 I'd be less hesitant to take the plunge and try a 36er)

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    I have no idea on the sales numbers, but Trek must have sold a TON of the Stache models while they were the hot thing for a couple of years. I know some people buy one or multiple bikes/year, but that's not normal. I'd think there be demand for 29x3 replacement tires, but manufacturers are claiming near zero demand. What's the deal?

    I've been back on my 2017 Stache for a couple of months due to warranty issues with my newer ride. What a performance bargain that bike is/was. $1.5k brand new and I've topped some PRs previously set on a much more expensive FS. I can see the bike working fine with 2.8s, but anything below would be pedal strike galore.

  110. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldsbar View Post
    I have no idea on the sales numbers, but Trek must have sold a TON of the Stache models while they were the hot thing for a couple of years. I know some people buy one or multiple bikes/year, but that's not normal. I'd think there be demand for 29x3 replacement tires, but manufacturers are claiming near zero demand. What's the deal?

    I've been back on my 2017 Stache for a couple of months due to warranty issues with my newer ride. What a performance bargain that bike is/was. $1.5k brand new and I've topped some PRs previously set on a much more expensive FS. I can see the bike working fine with 2.8s, but anything below would be pedal strike galore.
    Trek like a few others can sell lots of shitty bikes.
    I do not mean that they do, but that is just shelf spaces.
    Being in many retailers in Canada and i guess the same applies to the US they just out number some manufacturers no matter the quality of the bike, no matter the value if we consider the price asked.
    The 29x3.0 is kind of a niche thing. Most woman and light riders like me just feel better on 27.5+, more acceleration, more fun.
    Since last year i only use 165 arms and love them.
    Maybe that could help you.

  111. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by 33red View Post
    Most woman and light riders like me just feel better on 27.5+, more acceleration, more fun.

    Perhaps if you painted with a broader brush you could be more wildly inaccurate.

  112. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by 33red View Post
    Most woman and light riders like me just feel better on 27.5+, more acceleration, more fun.
    I'm neither, does that mean the 27.5+ bike that I enjoy isn't right for me?
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    Quote Originally Posted by 33red View Post
    The 29x3.0 is kind of a niche thing. Most woman and light riders like me just feel better on 27.5+, more acceleration, more fun.
    I think you can't compare 29+ vs 27.5+ directly. The rollover, sheer speed, flotation and overall comfort of 29+ is superior. Light b-fat 27.5x3.8/4.0 are close but they are much slower. And I believe these days 27.5+ is a niche thing pretty much too.

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    I feel like there are more 27.5+ tire options than 29+. Hell, Schwalbe makes 27.5x2.8 G-One gravel tire for bikes like the Fargo & Bearclaw Cycle's Beaux Jaxson(27.5+ gravel bike)

  115. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Perhaps if you painted with a broader brush you could be more wildly inaccurate.
    ^ Damn. In awe of that incisive insight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by goldsbar View Post
    I'd think there be demand for 29x3 replacement tires, but manufacturers are claiming near zero demand.
    Do you know this for a fact or is it speculation/hearsay? In either case is it permanent or might it be a COVID induced temporary situation? I'm not trying to be a smartass, I assure you that my questions are genuine. Thanks.
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  117. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus View Post
    Do you know this for a fact or is it speculation/hearsay? In either case is it permanent or might it be a COVID induced temporary situation? I'm not trying to be a smartass, I assure you that my questions are genuine. Thanks.
    =sParty

    The observation you're questioning seems unknowable, largely because there is no intra-industry group that tracks that sort of thing anymore.

    I wonder to what extent niche shops are confusing the issue? Meaning, I stock and sell primarily 2.8 and larger tires, and rim widths appropriate to support those tires. And I'm selling heaps and heaps and heaps of plus (and fat) tires this year. I know that's not accurate across the industry -- but is it because there's truly little demand, or because so few shops actually stock inventory of plus, thus failing to take advantage of (or even see) demand?

  118. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    The observation you're questioning seems unknowable, largely because there is no intra-industry group that tracks that sort of thing anymore.

    I wonder to what extent niche shops are confusing the issue? Meaning, I stock and sell primarily 2.8 and larger tires, and rim widths appropriate to support those tires. And I'm selling heaps and heaps and heaps of plus (and fat) tires this year. I know that's not accurate across the industry -- but is it because there's truly little demand, or because so few shops actually stock inventory of plus, thus failing to take advantage of (or even see) demand?
    Sadly, many shops have no idea on properly marketing plus or fat and fall on their face when the segment doesn't sell itself.
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  119. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by BansheeRune View Post
    Sadly, many shops have no idea on properly marketing plus or fat and fall on their face when the segment doesn't sell itself.
    It just about has to sell itself if shops don't stock 29x3 bikes, frames, wheel components, tires. Traditionally shops haven't been flush enough to stock anything that doesn't move quickly. Now that shops are doing well because of COVID-induced mainstream sales, they don't need fringe* products; often can't get stock anyway.

    Chicken & egg = supply & demand... which comes first?
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    *Fringe defined here as anything besides mainstream, high demand products.
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  120. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by BansheeRune View Post
    Sadly, many shops have no idea on properly marketing plus or fat and fall on their face when the segment doesn't sell itself.
    TRUTH. There's a shop on Long Island that has a few fat bikes on the floor. I asked how much rollover they had? Guy said we hardly sell any. I though to myself, they're five minutes from the beach... How is this possible?

    Another shop is thirty seconds from the Fire Island Ferry. Sells tons of beach cruisers but hardly any fat bikes. In my opinion, a beach cruiser is the most useless bicycle on the planet. I would think this guy would be selling mega fat bikes.

    Don't even get me started on plus bikes.
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  121. #121
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    2021 Trek "29+" bike:

    https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/b...rCode=bluedark

    Maybe there is hope for more

  122. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by rushman3 View Post
    2021 Trek "29+" bike:

    https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/b...rCode=bluedark

    Maybe there is hope for more
    My first sighting of one of those Trek 1120s was last year while riding the Fremont section of the Oregon Timber Trail. It was love at first sight.
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  123. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus View Post
    It just about has to sell itself if shops don't stock 29x3 bikes, frames, wheel components, tires. Traditionally shops haven't been flush enough to stock anything that doesn't move quickly. Now that shops are doing well because of COVID-induced mainstream sales, they don't need fringe* products; often can't get stock anyway.

    Chicken & egg = supply & demand... which comes first?
    =sParty

    *Fringe defined here as anything besides mainstream, high demand products.
    Demographic has plenty to do with the segment. As does a smartly played marketing scheme.


    Quote Originally Posted by NYrr496 View Post
    TRUTH. There's a shop on Long Island that has a few fat bikes on the floor. I asked how much rollover they had? Guy said we hardly sell any. I though to myself, they're five minutes from the beach... How is this possible?

    Another shop is thirty seconds from the Fire Island Ferry. Sells tons of beach cruisers but hardly any fat bikes. In my opinion, a beach cruiser is the most useless bicycle on the planet. I would think this guy would be selling mega fat bikes.

    Don't even get me started on plus bikes.
    I am thoroughly amazed that in my region there is one shop that does a hell of a large % of annual sales of plus and fat while most others couldn't give em away. The demographic is obviously present but the other shops have no idea of what plus and fat is or how to deal with it, not market it. Their loss...
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    I am close to a 3 miilions urban area when we include de suburbs.
    Many stores just offer no +size tire or almost nothing.
    Ya i could ask my LBS to order me some Bontragers but the price is just crazy high and we get 15% retail taxes added. I looked and after 5 weeks i found a pair of 2.8 Rekons and paid 1/4 and they are almost new so the retailers did not get a penny.

  125. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by 33red View Post
    I am close to a 3 miilions urban area when we include de suburbs.
    Many stores just offer no +size tire or almost nothing.
    Ya i could ask my LBS to order me some Bontragers but the price is just crazy high and we get 15% retail taxes added. I looked and after 5 weeks i found a pair of 2.8 Rekons and paid 1/4 and they are almost new so the retailers did not get a penny.
    I guess it varies. I'm in a metro area around that size too, and one of our local bike store chains does stock a handful of 29+ tires -- XR2, XR4 and Knard -- as well as (maybe not much longer) the Stache.

    Then again, this is Minnesota and fat bikes still fly out the door. Not sure whether that trickles down to higher demand for Plus than in other areas - but it wouldn't surprise me. Our trails always pack down quickly after a snow, so even in winter I use my Plus wheelset way more than my fatties.

    I think replacement-tire demand is also suppressed by the pricing. Even those of us with the tire clearance have to blink a couple times before dropping sometimes $100-ish on a 3.0 tire. I understand they "need" to charge more because it's such a niche, but when (for example) Bontrager charges $30 more for the 3.0 version of a tire they also sell in 2.6, and offer additional models (SE2, XR5) in 2.6 that they don't offer in 3.0, a lot of people are going to live with the 2.6. Kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy thing.

    Don't get me wrong: the early-29"-adopter in my is thrilled that we can even get 2.6 tires these days. But 3.0 is better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    If you must have a 3.0", Bontrager XR4.

    If you can live with 2.8", Vigilante.

    Despite it's size, Vigilante is much grippier in the wet.
    XR4 has always struck me as a tread that *ought* to be good in wet roots and rocks, though it isn't. Do you think it's just an issue of the compound they use? I can vouch for the Vig's grip on wet stuff. Will be good to have a softer casing eventually, even if we have to wait until next spring (which means next winter before I start using it).
    "People like GloyBoy are deaf. They are partisan, intellectually lazy & usually very angry." -Jaybo

  127. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlowBoy View Post
    XR4 has always struck me as a tread that *ought* to be good in wet roots and rocks, though it isn't. Do you think it's just an issue of the compound they use? I can vouch for the Vig's grip on wet stuff. Will be good to have a softer casing eventually, even if we have to wait until next spring (which means next winter before I start using it).
    I read from some riders that it does the job so maybe it is related to tweaking the ideal PSI or rim width.
    I never used them but many trust them.
    Last year i got a Rekon 2.8 3c for rear and after a week of playing and testing i was amazed with the climbing capacity. Now i am on Rekons 2.6 2c and maybe i improved my technique but i like how they work and roll.
    Last edited by 33red; 2 Weeks Ago at 09:23 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rushman3 View Post
    2021 Trek "29+" bike:

    https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/b...rCode=bluedark

    Maybe there is hope for more
    Sadly, the geo is the same as 2020 and so outdated.

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    To be fair it is a touring bike & slack geo is less imprtant than a more stable climber as most wouldn't be going down trails that gnarly at faster speeds.

  130. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlowBoy View Post
    XR4 has always struck me as a tread that *ought* to be good in wet roots and rocks, though it isn't. Do you think it's just an issue of the compound they use? I can vouch for the Vig's grip on wet stuff. Will be good to have a softer casing eventually, even if we have to wait until next spring (which means next winter before I start using it).
    The XR4 in 3.0 has enough grip in most conditions.

    The one place it would need more grip i.e. mud, I won't ride them...

    ...due to the Trek Full Stache 8 having chain clearance issues w/ the rear tire.

    On big right hand berms, the chain will rub the rear tire.

    Soon learnt if it's muddy out, any mud on the drivetrain side of the rear tire gets transferred to the chain & the jockey wheels get clogged up, which creates shifting issues.

    Even though there is enough grip, due to wide contact patch. I wanted something different up front.

    I've chucked a 3.0 Minion DHRII Exo 3C up front and you can feel that it has better cornering grip.

    If 3.0 tires dry up... I'll go 2.8 front and back.

    In dry conditions w/ the XR4's the FS8 is unstoppable.

    Sent from my HD1900 using Tapatalk
    "Mountain biking: the under-rated and drug-free antidepressant"

  131. #131
    turtles make me hot
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    Quote Originally Posted by Funoutside View Post
    To be fair it is a touring bike & slack geo is less imprtant than a more stable climber as most wouldn't be going down trails that gnarly at faster speeds.
    Unless something is chasing them. Just sayin'.
    I like turtles

  132. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Funoutside View Post
    To be fair it is a touring bike & slack geo is less imprtant than a more stable climber as most wouldn't be going down trails that gnarly at faster speeds.
    Probably. But for a bike that is positioned for off-road touring it sure could have a little more slacker HTA, longer reach (also leading to bigger frame triangle) and shorter standover. Modern geometry works pretty well for adventure bikes too.

  133. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mebaru View Post
    Sadly, the geo is the same as 2020 and so outdated.


    It's only outdated for hipsters that think long/low/slack makes any kind of sense for bikepacking.

    Thankfully that's a tiny (if vocal) slice of a teeny demographic, and no one's really listening to them.

  134. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    It's only outdated for hipsters that think long/low/slack makes any kind of sense for bikepacking.

    Thankfully that's a tiny (if vocal) slice of a teeny demographic, and no one's really listening to them.
    The main gripe I have with the geometry of the Stache is that the overly slack seat tube angle makes it difficult to use a dropper.

    Maybe it's just because I use a noseless saddle so my weight is more to the rear, but I've had a terrible time getting it to drop consistently since switching to the Stache vs. my previous bike with a true 73 degree STA.

    It's been bad enough that I've almost given up on the dropper.

  135. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    It's only outdated for hipsters that think long/low/slack makes any kind of sense for bikepacking.

    Thankfully that's a tiny (if vocal) slice of a teeny demographic, and no one's really listening to them.
    And some say that a full suspension bike doesn't make any sense for bikepacking too. Although the amount of people bikepacking on FS rigs is increasing every year, including bikepacking races.

    So why not? From my point of view - it depends how long/long/slack bike is and where you ride it.

    When my route is 80%+ singletrack in highlands, I feel much more comfortable, confident and secure on a bike with trail-oriented geometry, a full-suspension bike even.

  136. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mebaru View Post
    Sadly, the geo is the same as 2020 and so outdated.
    You're comparing unsagged geometry to a rigid fork that is effectively sagged.

  137. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsalvaggio View Post
    Thanks again. That's unfortunate about the DHF and DHR. I had a set of 27.5 x 2.8 on a different bike, and they were pretty good at sticking to the rocks. I think the Bontrager XR4 is my best choice.

    Update. I ordered and installed the XR4 29 x 3 on the front wheel, wow what a great tire. It has more than enough traction, rides smooth, and rolls easy. Thanks for the recommendation @mikesee!

  138. #138
    Loud tyres save lives
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimTucker View Post
    The main gripe I have with the geometry of the Stache is that the overly slack seat tube angle makes it difficult to use a dropper.

    Maybe it's just because I use a noseless saddle so my weight is more to the rear, but I've had a terrible time getting it to drop consistently since switching to the Stache vs. my previous bike with a true 73 degree STA.

    It's been bad enough that I've almost given up on the dropper.
    I've used a dropper on my Stache for about four years now and never had any problems getting it to drop nor seen anyone else complaining about it either so I don't think that's a common complaint.
    2014 Trek Fuel Ex 8
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