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  1. #1
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    Down to a couple bikes, need advice

    So it's been a while since I've been on here as I am a very casual rider and with no damage since we don't ride real hard and not much maintenance needed I am in need of help. I intend to get more time in on some decent trails and know that after being on them with my hardtail, it just isn't going to cut it much longer.
    I've been riding my hardtail 26 now for a while and after feeling how full suspension does with all the new improvements these days, I am ready tfor the swicth. I am down to 4 bikes, well almost 4. Can I get any input on which way to go. I know I want as much as much travel as I can get, the Sram AXS system(since it's such a good deal to pass for these prices), somewhat light(these are all under 30 lbs) and probably the carbon I guess since that seems the way to go now for a better ride.

    27.5/carbon frame/Sram AXS/150mm Pike $3600.00
    http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...tain-bikes.htm

    27.5/alum. frame/Sram AXS/150mm Pike $2600.00
    Save Up to 60% Off LTD QTYS of these 6 Inch / 140mm Travel Full Suspension 27.5Plus / Boost Mountain bikes MY2020 Motobecane HAL Boost EAGLE LTD SRAM Eagle 27.5PLUS Full Suspension Mountain Bikes SRAM EAGLE 1x12 Speed SRAM LEVEL Hydraulic Disc Brakes

    29/alum. frame/Sram AXS/150mm Pike $2600.00
    http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...tain-bikes.htm

    29/carbon frame/Sram AXS/150mm Pike $3600.00
    http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...tain-bikes.htm

    It's basically $1k more for their carbon frame over the alum. What makes me feel I should go with the carbon frame is the 428mm reach on the carbon frame ones vs 415mm on the aluminum.

    I am leaning more towards the 27.5s though since they already have a decent 2.6" tire and with the ability to change to a 29" wheelset later really either way, I just feel like the 27.5 with the 2.6" would be better off than the 2.25" the 29 frames come with. I'm not into changing much on the bike so I would like it to come as complete as what I need. Even on my current 26 hardtail that is a 22 lb XC, all I did was change out the tires to 2.4" Mountainkings and I was good to go. The 2.25 width tire on these 29 frames seems kind of skinny but that is an easy swap I guess.

    Why I am here is to see if that few millimeters is going to screw my whole ride up. From other reviews, that doesn't seem to be the case. One thing I do see myself is the more upright position especially in their aluminum frames when I put them in Photoshop and jump back and forth with more current frames like the DB carbon 5C I am also looking at.

    Also on my radar is the Diamondback Release 5C Carbon but at $4600 with the corporate discount plus taxes it's getting a little over what I intended to spend. I think with the Expertvoice discount that would be possibly closer to $3700. I started looking at it and off the BD website due to so many people ranting about the weird geometry of short chainstays and short reach. Those carbon frames seem to be more similar to current standards except a slightly longer chainstay. All this geometry stuff means very little to me but I have just taken the advice I see online as it is important since everybody always complains about it when BD bikes are brought up. I should also add my current 26 hardtail is a Motobecane Fly pro. It has done me great for the last 9 years. So I have no issues with the quality of Motobecane. I will still use it for my night time street riding. I just want something more squishy since we have started going on some decent trails.

    This whole decision came about after going to a LBS and sitting on a lower tier Specialized Stumpjumper ST alloy 29($2300 ish) and realizing I wanted full suspension now. What makes me not want to just buy at the LBS is the fact that what the Motobecanes I've narrowed down to have leaps and bounds better groupsets for just a couple hundred dollars more. It's only that internet talking to me saying the geometry is all wrong on these bikes that's making this a hard decision. Just pricing out the fork and SRam AXS alone on any of those BD bikes is almost $2k alone. So I am fine with the aluminum frames at just $2.5k but that longer reach on the carbon framed is what keeps me thinking I should just spend the extra $1k to get the longer reach. Is the 13mm more even anything to worry about?

    So other than the standard Motobecane is trash explanations(I've read them all in the last couple weeks doing my research) should I just bite the bullet and try to get the Carbon 5C because of it's geometry but with lesser components? I know nothing will have the Sram AXS on it less than a $6K+ bike because I searched heavily but I can deal witout having it if it means something else is making up for it dearly.

    And before it even happens since I am a current Motobecane owner and am leaning to get another here I am not a paid shill/Moto employee/etc. I am a paver installation owner in Florida...Surface Creations..hence my screename, so I don't get called out for popping in out of nowhere to push bikesdirect bikes. I understand what their model is. No advertising, etc and then they put a couple cheaper parts..bar, stem, have slightly dated geometry on their frames and even the dropper post they now come with is on the lower end. Those several parts can be swapped out for a couple hundred more so I am not worried about that.

  2. #2
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    Dude, with a $3,600-4,600 budget you should NOT be looking at a BD bike.

    There are so many good bikes out there from quality manufacturers with geometry that isn't wonky as hell.

    You don't need wireless electronic shifting, I promise you, but you can get a really sweet carbon bike with your budget. Or honestly if you're going full suspension, aluminum is just fine too.
    Rigid SS 29er
    SS 29+
    Fat Lefty
    SS cyclocross
    Full Sus 29er (Yuck)

    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  3. #3
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    MOTO 27.5/29 Carbon Reach 428mm Chainstay 442mm Wheelbase 1195mm
    DB 27.5 Carbon 5C Reach 429mm Chainstay 425mm Wheelbase 1160mm

    The Stumpjumper I tried and felt was nice sitting in was Reach 435mm Chainstay 425mm Wheelbase 1163mm

    Where is the wonky geometry in the Moto?

    If there is something full suspension carbon out there for $3600 to my door taxes and shipped with close to the groupo those two carbon/AXS/Pike bikes come with, please point me that way. That DB carbon 5C is the closest I could find. I also know the wireless is just something new and not really needed but everybody riding it sings praises about it. I don't buy a new bike every year or two so I figure getting the latest tech will keep me good for a while.

  4. #4
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    The 5C has better geo. 5C's geo is actually pretty damn dialed in L.

    Problem is that cheap manufacturing has issues with poor tolerance. It's a game of luck (lotto) to get one that has good tolerances that lasts the test of time. Usually it feels and sounds awful and an inexperienced rider wouldn't know where it's coming from, but would nonetheless find it hard to live with, unless they live in ignorance (don't have any thing to compare to, like a nicer riding bike).

    Looks like you want size M, so I direct you to the Ibis Ripmo AF NX. You'll appreciate the effort they put into years of refining the pedaling response of the suspension, and the more modernized geo. The carbon and the drivetrain stuff is just fluff to anyone who rides regularly (you see less value once you get fit and/or realize the cost of replacement). Reach 458, CS 435, WB 1216mm... IMO, it's better to be on a safer and easier to ride bike like this Ripmo, and develop good riding habits that you won't have to unlearn/overwrite (bad habits develop on crappier bikes that have you scared, dragging brakes, hanging off the back of the bike, and spending over 90% of the time in the saddle).

    There's second hand stuff like this, which I'd say are better than the moto deals, and even has me interested: https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2654506/

  5. #5
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    You might be doing a big mistake.
    In your situation if possible i would do 3 or more demos, try real tests 75 min or more in trails. Things change, maybe you would like a 29X2.6 in HT 120-130 mm?
    maybe a 27.5+ HT about similar fork?
    Maybe a FS 120-130?
    A good thing is buy a bike about 1,700$, about 2 years old and resale after about 3 months. Just consider that a rental. You wont loose much and find what you enjoy.
    For me 130mm is max, not everyone like the long suspensions and with bigger tires HT can be lots of fun, lighter, less maintenance.

  6. #6
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    no go on the BD bikes, esp for that budget.

  7. #7
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    Stumpjumper ST has different geo, which I'd say is dialed in XL (29 version). Where did you find its geo? Don't see any with 425 CS... it's 432mm with 1170 wb, 435 reach, in 27.5 alloy Med. 437 and 1163 wb in 29, which is even worse.

    There's better for size medium riders out there. For example:




    Getting a Canfield Toir frame for $1000, direct from Canfield's webstore (edit, doh they sold out), and building it up would be a great learning experience, IMO. You'd likely feel more attached to it, and it may be fun enough that you do it again in the future for the learning experience of researching, and gratification of seeing your dream come alive.

  8. #8
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    Buying a $4k BD bike is like buying a $50k Yugo.

    Don't do it.
    Sinister Bikes
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  9. #9
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    I misquoted the specs on that Stumpjumper. I tried a medium Stumpjumper ST alloy 29. It felt very good and and according to their site here: https://www.specialized.com/us/en/me...oy-29/p/154985
    it's 435mm reach, 1163mm wheelbase and 437mm chainstay. If that is wrong geometry then I guess I just don't know what right is supposed to feel like.

    And making me even more confused here.... I'm looking at a Specialized S-Works Stumpjumper SRAM AXS 29 that is a $10k bike and see that the medium is 425 mm reach, 1169mm wheelbase and 437mm chainstay.
    I was under the impression that Specialized was very current on their design and solely based off of enormous price and raving reviews, they make a good bike, especially the top on their top tier model there. Are they totally getting it wrong and also have the wonky geometry?

    I really appreciate all the help to direct me away from BD here since I truly wanted to from all the advice being given to stay away but I am just not seeing such a great difference in the top of the line Moto vs that top of the line Specialized other than the S-Works coming with the better wheelset, wireless dropper post and brakes which I cold swap out for a couple hundred dollars more and be spending about $6k less. I understand the weird advertising on their website meant to give you the imperssion that you are getting a bike for half off. I understand their throwing a few suspect generic parts to keep the costs down. And I definitely understand the way their models lag a little behind the times of current geometry. I just don't see it with their top tier carbon outfitted frames. I really was getting scared off anything Motobecane and was also looking at other $3500ish bikes including a YT Jeffsys 29 CF COMP, 2019 Devinci Troy Carbon 29 GX along with that Expertcity discounted DB Release 5 carbon and midtier carbon Stumpjumpers.

    I think I will just make a possibly poor decision here and try the Carbon 29 AXS Moto and if it turns out to be a really bad decision, just pull everything off the frame with possibly a few changes and get another frame. I've spent hours overlaying all these bikes on Photoshop to scale and they are so close, closer than I think most people realize, it really seems this is overthinking this decision. I kind of feel as a novice, I won't be able to tell the difference in a few mm off from "perfect" geometry any way. And since I sat on a bike that apparently has bad geometry and it felt really good, maybe my body just works with bad geometry bikes? I do now see and understand the aluminum frame Motobecanes in both 27.5 and 29 as being slightly tall which I guess would be decribed as "unslack"? I'm just not seeing much a difference in geometry of the carbon versions to walk away from them and get less for more $ from an elite brand.

    I really research deep when I purchase anything like this that costs thousands and the last Motobecane I bought had the same push to not buy I am getting in here. It's still sitting here in the game room and honestly it could go another 10 years and probably be fine as long as I don't keep beating it to death on the trails that we've recently started doing. It was $1300 spent and at the time was described as the same as they do today, half the price for comparable big name brand bikes. On concrete/asphalt and light terrain it just moves as fast as a road bike. It's one of the best ways I've spent $1k+ for fun but on the trails it's meeting it's limitations.

    There may be the possibility that every person giving good reviews in that Motobecane forum is an employee trying to push their bikes but I doubt it. The only bad "reviews" I've found in this site and off here are just people who say don't buy that don't own or never have owned them. All the negatives about who knows how long the frame will last, possibly bad customer service, BD weird advertising practices and the new to me explanation of their wonky geometry...it is all overshadowed by the actual owners giving it praise. I understand fake Chinese reviews happen like what is done on Amazon but I just don't see it happening with bikesdirect like some people suspect.

    My opinion probably means squat in here since I only have ridden my hardtail for this long and just a few runs here of some high end bikes of our group. Anything full suspension probably feels like a Cadillac to me compared to what I am on currently. I suspect all the Motobecane owners reviews in here have about the same weight as mine so I guess the best I can do is get some opinion from a few people we ride with who do own high end bikes and if somebody seems friendly enough on the trails, I'll try to get random people to see what they say if I go through with this purchase.

  10. #10
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    IMO, there's a lot of unsubstantiated and speculative BD vitriol in this thread.
    Do the math.

  11. #11
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    You sound like you're the type who learns more through trial and error...

    You chose to overlook experienced advice given here, some rational like cheap manufacturing being known for loose tolerances, and continue to reason things through price, groupset, and a few geo figures that are based off of replicating a good feeling on a single test ride. Someone who learns through rational reasons, like evidence and facts should recognize things are far more complex than that. A post with 3+ paragraphs probably only gets read by 1% of visitors, so I tried to keep things short.

    There's many reasons for not shopping BD. Want to hear them? Here's some to start:

    - Chinese/Taiwanese catalog frames that are copies ripped off from other designs, with minimal modifications
    - Specifically made to be cheaper, through corner cutting
    - Low effort in design done by brand, in comparison to other brands who are passionate about sweating details that improve the ride
    - Low return in progressing mtb industry culture and trail access/creation advocacy, just basic reselling as middleman with a little bit of advertising

    You may not care for some of these ethical reasons, but I personally give value to them. I don't want to support such dastardly business practices. I just see SRAM MSRPs, like on their AXS, as being overinflated, like 2x what they charge OEM. I don't want to deal with those replacement costs if it breaks. I run Deore 1x10 by choice, even after having experienced XO1, more than just for the low upkeep cost. I compromised on drivetrain to invest my budget on the parts that affect handling/control, which factor into safety and confidence: frame, susp, tires, brakes. My MTB experience is about stepping up to the challenge, and I don't want to have a bunch of excuses to wuss out, like having a bike that is just "okay for XC and beginners". To me, that's just a politically correct way of saying the bike is shit that an experienced mountain bike would avoid wasting money on if they had a choice. The saying, "there's no bad bikes, just bikes that are bad for certain terrain, which are good for another", is like saying there's "no bad people, just bad circumstances." Political correctness...

    P.S. that 10k bike price point is a psychological marketing trick to give the impression that the lower price points aren't overpriced, and are a good value in comparison to the 10k one. That 6500 price point doesn't seem to ridiculous now... also, test ride more, like something in my list, or maybe others like the Trek Stache, Full Stache, Yeti SB150, Marin Alpine Trail, etc. even if you aren't interested in those categories, just to get a feel to compare to. Your standards are low if you think that SJ ST 29 is good in M. It's good in XL, I know, but in M I'm suggesting there's better and listed examples of such. The Troy and Jeffsy are dialed in L, IMO, and are still better in M over the SJ ST and Moto, but I still recommend the ones in the list, and the ones I listed just now, as top choices over these.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfacecreations View Post
    Are they totally getting it wrong and also have the wonky geometry?
    Yes, most Spec bikes have very antiquated geo. You're looking at the wrong brands as a reference point.

    Ninja, there is no "design" done by Motobecane. The frames are ordered out of a catalog and stamped with whatever decal is ordered. In this case, Moto.

    You can literally start your own brand and stamp your name on the exact frames. Zero "design" involved.
    Rigid SS 29er
    SS 29+
    Fat Lefty
    SS cyclocross
    Full Sus 29er (Yuck)

    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  13. #13
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    Materials engineering and quality control are what is wonky. With that budget get a Santa Cruz or some other awesome bike. There is so much you can buy in that range.

    If you must buy online (why?!) look at Jenson and Competitive Cyclist.

    Or, are you just screwing with us? Seriously.

  14. #14
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    I was super concerned about all the negative stuff too, decided that I could get the bike and throw the frame away, buy an Ibis frame on sale and still be $1000-$1500 cheaper. I absolutely love my Team LTD, 2020 Pike 150mm, DT wheels, 27+ with top end recons. X01 Group 1x12, XT 180 Disks. I threw pedals away and got a pair of xpedo magnesium flats, was going to replace bars and grips anyway. Dropper works great and the geometry is right inline with a bunch of other brands. I seriously doubt 5-7mm longer chainstays make a shit bit of difference. I spent about half of what I was looking at and cant be happier. The frame quality is top notch, the bike weight is under 29# and I have a set of 29 boost DT's on the way for $299.
    I am not a newb, I have worked in bike shops in my younger days, riddden Ibis Bowties, have a Breezer Tornado 26er XTR bike, and have been riding since the birth of MTB's. I have ridden a buddys $6500 Trek FS and like my Moto better. The most important thing is that I am happy and glad I ignored all the negative bullshit.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muirenn View Post
    Or, are you just screwing with us? Seriously.
    No, he wasn't kidding, he actually bought one. https://forums.mtbr.com/motobecane/c...r-1119151.html
    Rigid SS 29er
    SS 29+
    Fat Lefty
    SS cyclocross
    Full Sus 29er (Yuck)

    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  16. #16
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    LOL yep, I actually wasn't kidding.
    I'd be glad to let anybody who wants to have a run with it or even just look it over to see what is so wrong with it if they live in Florida and go to Alifiah River State Park.

  17. #17
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    Why do you guys act like buying one is like some sort of a dare? Have you even even seen one in person or riden one? Do you just like talking shit because your bike is broken and you cant ride it? Does your mom not let you take your dads Huffy out unless you do all your chores?

  18. #18
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    At the price he paid if the bike sucks he can keep the parts and buy another frame and still be 3 grand ahead. People buy BD bikes just for the parts all the time. It's a great way to save cash. And if the bike feels good then you ride it til it breaks and you have a great set of parts to swap to something else.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

  19. #19
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    Yes, the frame is what I am slightly worried about but not due to "weird" geometry if it will fit me correctly but whether it will crack. The carbon seems to be what is in vogue so I went with that. There seems to be heavy argument on it is the best thing out and the future of what bikes will all be and the other side that it will be the death of us when it snaps in two. My crashes tend to be very light OTB scenarios hitting ruts or large roots mainly due to 26" wheels since I mainly stay on the ground. I've never flew off the bike and landed several feet away testing the full crash capabilities of any bikes frame.

    Motobecane has a crash replacement lifetime frame warranty though for the carbon frames. It reads, "regardless of reason for damage (no-fault) comparable replacements available at current wholesale prices. You will have to purchase a replacement frame at current wholesale prices. They gave the example of a $1200 frame will cost $400 to replace. We all know they kind of say the bikes are worth roughly double what they sell them for, which is actually a fair assessment to be honest, so based of of that a you could say a $600 frame is what the example uses. That seems to be the going cost of a carbon full suspension frame from China.

    I've been riding the current Motobecane aluminum hardtail now for 9 years and while I haven't really pushed it to test the frame, the bike looks practically new, I think the Kinesis frame is as good as anything else out there aluminum. If this carbon frame on it's way to me lasts for close to the same time before an issue arises, I will be content.

    My prior bike to the Motobecane was actually a Mongoose D60R aluminum full suspension that I bought from Dicks sporting goods for around $350, the best they had in the store to offer and my first mountain bike. Just looked the reviews for it in here and apparently it was decently received. That was run for about 10 years until the welds started to crack but that was really beat up during that time, many decent crashes. That was what most would describe as a Walmart quality bike and held up for a decent time for what I put it through so either I am very easy on bikes or am just lucky with low cost frames.

    As mentioned, the parts more than justify the price paid and we definitely can look at it as a free frame with the deal. The part that many people overlook though is after you add up all the parts cost and then throw in that "free" frame, there is still the profit the company must have made which appears to be nothing. Of course they get the parts for much less at wholesale than we do but if you do the same math with any big name brand out there and separate all the components and the frame there is always a hefty profit margin in there, and in cases of the high end comparably equipped bikes like the carbon S-works I was eyeing, thousands of dollars in profit.

    No matter what any of us think of the Motobecane frames due to a concocted theory of it breaking, business practices of copying other frames or weird geometry, if you break it down by cost of the parts you take off, it's a smoking deal that can't be touched. I went in with the idea that even if I had to spend extra for a new frame, I'm good with that. With the crash replacement, that is mostly taken care of and unless it is totally unrideable(not going to happen) I think it will turn out decently. It's out for delivery and will arrive any minute now, super fast 3 day delivery by the way since I ordered it Wednesday, so I will report back what I find.

  20. #20
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    surface, I had the same doubts when I ordered mine and when it arrived, all my worries from all the ney-sayers vanished. I got the HAL6 Boost Aluminum frame, lifetime free replacment. It is beautiful, great welds, gussets, better bear caliper location than most. The cable routing is all internal. Paint is georgous too, not a bubble, drip or fisheye on it. This is coming from a very high end but older 26" Breezer Tornado FS XC and it is a work of art.
    i think you will be shocked.
    The mountain bike world has changed in the last 15 years while I was off recovering from injury, it used to be all about the comradre of riding, brothers sharing a beer after the mud and blood was whashed awa. Now it seems its much more about brand snobbery. We used to trade bikes when pedal systems were compatable, didnt matter if your buddy had an Ibis or an old GT, you just went riding and had a good time, Now its like roadies invaded the dirt with their grey puopon and pinky extended.
    The first bike I ever bought was a 1983 Diamondback Apex, one of 3-4 brands available, it was $375. A stumpjumper was almost $600. My buddy and I rode it around all night on a baseball diamon in Santa Monica until we bent the axles and destroyed the bars and pedals. Shit tires, bolt on hubs, 15 speeds and weighed as much as a clawfoot bathtub. Slowly replaced broken parts with tandem parts because they didnt die as fast. My buddy John, now a famous bike frame designer got a Fuji Mt Tam. We had so much fun destroying them over and over, crashing, rebuilding them....that was mountainbiking!!!!

  21. #21
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    I think anyone interested in a high performance bike but with a limited budget will take a good long look at bikesdirect/motobecane. Several of my friends and I are interested in buying full sus but the prices of established brands are off putting to say the least.

    I'd like to stick to the $1500 to $1700 range if at all possible but my friends don't want to spend spend more than $1K and would prefer to spend a lot less.

    As far as motobecane, as far as I can tell, they are using a few open mold/generic designs for their full sus. The geo is clearly different: shorter reach, longer chainstays, slacker seat, steeper head angle but nothing which makes their bikes unrideable.

    I could understand the scorn if there were first hand reports of performance deficiencies, but surprisingly these are literally nonexistent.

    I prefer to hold off on judgement until there are press reviews or reviews from experienced riders who can compare motobecanes to other more mainstream models. I just don't think condemnation prior to any meaningful reviews is justified.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by UltraMTB1 View Post
    I think anyone interested in a high performance bike but with a limited budget will take a good long look at bikesdirect/motobecane. Several of my friends and I are interested in buying full sus but the prices of established brands are off putting to say the least.

    I'd like to stick to the $1500 to $1700 range if at all possible but my friends don't want to spend spend more than $1K and would prefer to spend a lot less.

    As far as motobecane, as far as I can tell, they are using a few open mold/generic designs for their full sus. The geo is clearly different: shorter reach, longer chainstays, slacker seat, steeper head angle but nothing which makes their bikes unrideable.

    I could understand the scorn if there were first hand reports of performance deficiencies, but surprisingly these are literally nonexistent.

    I prefer to hold off on judgement until there are press reviews or reviews from experienced riders who can compare motobecanes to other more mainstream models. I just don't think condemnation prior to any meaningful reviews is justified.
    Let say i lend you my bike for 3 days.
    What will be your impressiions?
    Since my bike has average tires some will say Great tires, they were used to shitty ones.
    Some will say better tires would help, they were used to Great tires.
    So even if 2 of your friends say they are Great, that should be taken as not meaning much.
    Marin offers a FS 10 speeds 11-46 cassette that you might look at.
    My preferred option is buying quality, my budget decides wich year.

  23. #23
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    Marin has done a bangup job of offering quality in the $1500 to $2K price point.

    However, while Marin is offering 130/125 and SLX at $2700 (+tax), BD offers 150/140 with XT at $2500. The frames themselves look to be of high quality.

    The main reservation I have is frame geometry. I'm not saying it's "bad." But will the new geometry be "better" in any discernible way: 76 vs 74 seat tube and 66 head tube vs 68 or whatever.

    I've seen plenty of reviews of bikes receiving high praise either for quality or value or both with similar geometry, either in years past but also more current models. The giant stance and trance both have relatively slack seat tube angles. Some of the Yeti SB models from years past had 44+ cm chainstays, and the Vitus featured in the VitalMTB test I linked to in another post has whopping 44.5 cm chainstays: splitting the difference between the 44.8 cm chainstays on the motobecane aluminum and 44.2 on their carbon model.

    I'm taking an agnostic position, much like OP. I don't make judgements one way or the other without either riding these bikes myself or without reviews from others. But I get it, OP pretty much threw his hands up in the air, as almost no one is going to speak positively of this brand.

    After a couple of posts in this thread, I'm almost there myself. While I'm unlikely to buy a motobecane myself, I still think it would be cool to see one of their 2020 models subject to a more serious, detailed review. Otherwise, this discussion is just going around in circles.

    I'm linking the vitalmtb video below. I think it's informative that both vitalmtb as well as outdoorgearlab concluded that the giant stance was the most fun bike to ride in both of their comparison tests. Yet, the stance has the most outdated frame angles in both tests.

    What makes this particular model so fun to ride? Is it because of the outdated geometry? It makes you question the prevailing wisdom of what "correct" frame geometry is. Did motobecane accidentally happen into excellent frame geometry without even putting any effort into it? It's at least a theoretical possibility if the stance's outdated geometry makes it especially fun to ride.

    https://www.outdoorgearlab.com/revie...ance-29-2-2020


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    Since this came back up to the top, I did post a little more about it after I got it in the Motobecane subforum and have since taken it out a couple times. Only issue I've come across is the Pike compression dial seemingly feels like it does nothing. As I understand it, it just has no lockout but I can't tell from full on to full off, if it does anything. Not really a BD/Motto issue and not really needing a full lockout to begin with on what we ride, I am just ignoring it.

    I noticed that with that AXS on there, I am shifting a lot more and I would imagine it's making the ride easier on me. Coming up on steep climbs is definitely not as much of a chore to drop several gears down and push through it. Is it worth an extra $1500-1900 or whatever the whole groupset goes for, maybe not but then again I didn't pay that much for it and never would have experienced it since anything coming with it is usually 2-3x the price I paid.

    And much to the surprise as it will come to a few in here, there is nothing wonky about how it rides. I think a professional review would find the same thing and if BD/Motobecane paid people to do reviews, they'd probably come to the same conclusion as they do with other high dollar bikes.
    I am swapping out the 370 3 pawl guts for a 54t ratchet and that is just because of everybody online gushing how easy it is and how better the engagement is after. The dropper post is probably next on the list for a 150mm one. I did get trapped up behind the seat a couple times descending and having one that can get installed lower will fix that easy enough. After Sundays ride, I have this 100mm one pushed in as far as it will go after getting caught behind the seat like I did.

    I know one thing that I have learned from buying this...do not trust what people say online about frame geometry at all. I honestly think people just parrot what they read from bike manufacturers on the subject, which is to change and sell new products, and have no idea what they are talking about. I feel "inside" the bike. It's not bucking me off or making me feel unbalanced. I pretty much got thrown from my other 26" hardtail bike every time we went out but didn't happen the last two times with this bike.

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    Thanks surfacecreations for chiming in!

    I am becoming more skeptical of the claim or assumption that the latest fads/trends on bike geometry are necessarily better. As a matter of fact, in a recent bikemag review of the Yeti SB, several of the reviewers are actually critical of the bike since it seems to take the latest geo fads too far. They say the bike is great when riding fast, but not so great for slow speed maneuvering. In other words horses for courses. There are always tradeoffs involved and the latest geo may in fact be too extreme.

    Bikemag also claims with regards to the giant trance that even though it doesn't have the steepest seat angle, it's still steep enough and climbs well. Perhaps they're lying, or maybe, as common sense would dictate: perhaps anything within a certain range rides well and the exact angle is largely inconsequential.

    This supports the claims of reviewers from outdoogearlab and vitalmtb with regards to the giant stance. So there are at least four separate sources which claim that within a range, exact geo numbers aren't especially important. The giant stance, the trance, and vitus mythique all receive top marks despite not having the latest geo numbers.

    Specialized bikes, mentioned here, have chainstay lengths all over the map.

    I just don't see any reviews from motobecane owners which claim the bike does not ride well. Absolutely none. Almost all of them are quite happy with their bikes. This leads me to believe that these are in fact, good bikes that ride well.

    Here is a vid of a rider on the motobecane hal boost. He is jumping, riding off drops and navigating successfully through very technical terrain. He seems to like the bike a lot. Why so much criticism from people who don't actually own these bikes then?


  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by UltraMTB1 View Post
    Why so much criticism from people who don't actually own these bikes then?
    Because when you pay a fraction of what some people pay and get the same or better in some cases, they get a little salty. The name of the game for mountain bike culture seems to be pay til it hurts so everybody drools at the trailhead at how much you spent.

    In that video review, I recognized that wooden berm as soon as it came into view. That's at Alafia State River Park where we ride. It's funny how good that park is considering it's in the middle of Florida of all places. There's a couple double black diamonds that will beat you up in there.

    I will say that after spending the amount I did, I have a little bit of regret not just getting something more in the $2500 range. At the time, I figured I don't buy bikes every year or two so I might as well get the best they had to offer. I think the wireless AXS system is great but for $1k less, I don't think I would have missed it since the $2.5k bikes come pretty well equipped also. That's not a negative on Moto/BD at all, it's just more like buying a Porsche fully loaded and realizing you spent $40k more for stuff you really don't need.

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    Surface, there are plenty of "suppositions" on geometry and it is rubbish since we all have a different physique that makes any one number meaningless.
    There is a reason that I always recommend "try many, before you buy". By doing so, one can refer to a model's geo chart and make a choice of a lower
    priced bike over the expensive one and not go wrong in their personal findings. When it comes to BD, it is helpful to do just that since test riding a BD product is highly unkikley before the wallet appears in this conversatiion... It takes some effort to test many since some peeps don't have the LBS choices as close by as they would like.

    Good value only exists if the bike fits, performs and serves the owner well.

    Yus, peeps will change out parts for groovier parts, some out of necessity, some cause they like to shower bikes with gifts!
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    The problem here is that no one, not a single person is willing to debate specifics about the motob bikes.

    This is all about vague generalizations like "they probably don't fit" or "the bikes are really crappy" but when you try to pin them down to specifics, they breezily disappear, never to be heard from again. No matter how hard you try to pin them down, they are as elusive as the air itself.

    Chainstays are too long: why did vitalmtb declare the vitus mythique winner of it's comparison test with it's 44.5 cm chainstays?

    Angles are out of date: vitalmtb voted the giant stance with it's very simple linkage and out of date head and seat angle "most fun to ride."

    Frames are crappy: every photo of a motob shows the welds are beautiful and the paint high quality.

    Suspension design sucks: motob uses the famous horst link design: same as the horst link on the vitus mythique which won best of test.

    Top tube too short: motob bikes have the same short top tubes as fezzari bikes. Yet the fezzari la sal peak was voted best value by bikemagazine.

    The motob reviewer in the youtube vid is riding one size too small, yet climbing well, descending well, negotiating technical terrain, jumping, riding off drops with skill. How is this possible if the "top tube is too short?"

    There are certainly some design misses: 100mm of suspension on the dropper is out of date. But one could sell it and buy a new one. There is a vestigial front derailleur mount. I don't see why that's a problem.

    Are y'all saying that specialized and vitus and all bikes using a horst link design suck?

    Why are 44.2 cm chainstays bad when they the yeti SB as recently as 2016 was praised as one of the best bikes in the world yet had 44.2cm chainstays?


    These arguments against motobecane range from weak to non-existent. Let's try to delve into specifics, please.

    Brand whoring is not an argument for how well a bike rides.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UltraMTB1 View Post
    The problem here is that no one, not a single person is willing to debate specifics about the motob bikes.

    This is all about vague generalizations like "they probably don't fit" or "the bikes are really crappy" but when you try to pin them down to specifics, they breezily disappear, never to be heard from again. No matter how hard you try to pin them down, they are as elusive as the air itself.

    Chainstays are too long: why did vitalmtb declare the vitus mythique winner of it's comparison test with it's 44.5 cm chainstays?

    Angles are out of date: vitalmtb voted the giant stance with it's very simple linkage and out of date head and seat angle "most fun to ride."

    Frames are crappy: every photo of a motob shows the welds are beautiful and the paint high quality.

    Suspension design sucks: motob uses the famous horst link design: same as the horst link on the vitus mythique which won best of test.

    Top tube too short: motob bikes have the same short top tubes as fezzari bikes. Yet the fezzari la sal peak was voted best value by bikemagazine.

    The motob reviewer in the youtube vid is riding one size too small, yet climbing well, descending well, negotiating technical terrain, jumping, riding off drops with skill. How is this possible if the "top tube is too short?"

    There are certainly some design misses: 100mm of suspension on the dropper is out of date. But one could sell it and buy a new one. There is a vestigial front derailleur mount. I don't see why that's a problem.

    Are y'all saying that specialized and vitus and all bikes using a horst link design suck?

    Why are 44.2 cm chainstays bad when they the yeti SB as recently as 2016 was praised as one of the best bikes in the world yet had 44.2cm chainstays?


    These arguments against motobecane range from weak to non-existent. Let's try to delve into specifics, please.

    Brand whoring is not an argument for how well a bike rides.
    No need to debate. Buy 3 plus my 3 if you wish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfacecreations View Post
    Because when you pay a fraction of what some people pay and get the same or better in some cases, they get a little salty. The name of the game for mountain bike culture seems to be pay til it hurts so everybody drools at the trailhead at how much you spent.

    In that video review, I recognized that wooden berm as soon as it came into view. That's at Alafia State River Park where we ride. It's funny how good that park is considering it's in the middle of Florida of all places. There's a couple double black diamonds that will beat you up in there.

    I will say that after spending the amount I did, I have a little bit of regret not just getting something more in the $2500 range. At the time, I figured I don't buy bikes every year or two so I might as well get the best they had to offer. I think the wireless AXS system is great but for $1k less, I don't think I would have missed it since the $2.5k bikes come pretty well equipped also. That's not a negative on Moto/BD at all, it's just more like buying a Porsche fully loaded and realizing you spent $40k more for stuff you really don't need.
    So far you are 100% correct. This forum represents the 10% of buyers who are desperate for validation for their hyper expensive purchase and turn to this forum and others for "internet cred."

    So this forum is about bragging about how expensive your bike is, rather than getting the bike that fits your needs.

    Quote Originally Posted by 33red View Post
    No need to debate. Buy 3 plus my 3 if you wish.

    When the wallet is empty and the rider is slow, there is always trolling.

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    It looks like metalskool has some nicely detailed reviews of the 29er version of this bike. It looks like it's not the bike for me. As one might predict from the geometry, it's very stable on descents, but doesn't corner as well as newer geometry bikes. I definitely prefer a quicker steering feel. This looks to be a great bike for straight line speed with descending being it's main strength.

    I think a 140/140 bike might work out well for me. Bikes that wallow with suspension bob on climbs are not cool. Maybe today's bikes pedal so well I could get away with more travel. It looks like I'll be demoing quite a bit when the weather clears. I'll still consider the carbon fiber model with shorter 442mm chainstays.

    Thanks to surfacecreations and the motobecane guys for writing such informative reviews on these bikes!

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    Quote Originally Posted by UltraMTB1 View Post
    It looks like metalskool has some nicely detailed reviews of the 29er version of this bike. It looks like it's not the bike for me. As one might predict from the geometry, it's very stable on descents, but doesn't corner as well as newer geometry bikes. I definitely prefer a quicker steering feel. This looks to be a great bike for straight line speed with descending being it's main strength.

    I think a 140/140 bike might work out well for me. Bikes that wallow with suspension bob on climbs are not cool. Maybe today's bikes pedal so well I could get away with more travel. It looks like I'll be demoing quite a bit when the weather clears. I'll still consider the carbon fiber model with shorter 442mm chainstays.

    Thanks to surfacecreations and the motobecane guys for writing such informative reviews on these bikes!
    If you believe reviews 1 was written recently that todays 125mm are plenty.
    Just like long cranks old habits are often kept for no good reason.
    I went from 175 to 165 arms and for where i ride they are much better.

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    Check this out:

    https://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/b...l#post14449009

    Surfacecreations, a motobecane owner, is looking like the nostradamus of mtbrforums. So many people complaining about poseurs on mtbrforums and at the trailhead. They're all dentists going through a middle aged crisis trying to impress each other with their boutique bikes but suck at riding.

    I had a hard time taking this forum seriously while reading the replies in this thread, but the brand snobs thread just confirms every suspicion about internet poseurs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gman086 View Post
    HAHA, great thread OP! I have to admit there are two brands that I disdain for bike "brand snobbery", those being Ibis and Yeti. Nothing against the bikes nor the companies but more-so against the inordinate amount of poseurs posting in their respective forums... I see more posts like "Doesn't this custom sticker set look great matching my fork to the bike (and my purse)?" and "Look at how much more money I spent on suspension upgrades (that I'm not able to even discern because my wallet is larger than my skillset)!" and "Please validate my bike (and my life)!" kinds of threads. I told myself never in a million years would I buy those brands! Fast forward to my search for a fun fast 29'r trail bike and after a lot of demos I wound up choosing between a Ripmo and an SB130... FML! There are a LOT of better values but those bikes just flat out haul the mail so I caved and have one in my stable (sans any revealing brand stickers of course - DaKine branded now). I'm almost ashamed to go ride the popular trails. Do you know where I can get grips to match my custom colored grease gun and saddle rails? ROFLMAO! First world problems...

    Have FUN!

    G MAN
    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy3220 View Post
    Nothing screams cool like Yeti's 'how to impress your white middle-age upper-middle class friends' image. But seriously, bikes aren't a real status symbol and quality differences are overblown. My newish expensive as shit Santa Cruz creaks like crazy (third I've taken back to the bike shop for creaks), the Fox factory X2 I put on it doesn't equalize like it should, the cutting edge 210mm OneUp dropper rattles because they forgot to apply two layers of electrical tape at the factory (no seriously), and the rear wheel can't go a ride without the spokes loosening. Yeti has had an issue with frame cracks on their SB series bikes. There's nothing special about Yeti, SC, Ibis or whatever other high-end bike brand. The joke is on the bike snobs.

  34. #34
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    man, you tryin so hard. so hard.
    Working to stomp out redundancy, I repeat, working to stomp out redundancy.

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    Surface, you haven't had your bike for long, but what are your assessments so far of the following:

    1. cornering ability

    2. manualing/wheelies

    3. descending

    4. climbing

    Do you feel the bike is lacking in any of these areas?

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by UltraMTB1 View Post
    The problem here is that no one, not a single person is willing to debate specifics about the motob bikes.

    .
    Bloody rubbish! Anyone that blames brand X for being sub par without first hand experience, zero credibility and is dismissed.
    To say a Motobecane is garb is rubbish.

    I mentioned one factor to assist in gaining an idea of how an MB would work out based on numerals. Will one be able to find another make that is close in numerals to a MB? Likely. Can a bloke test ride an MB?? Perhaps after purchasing a plane ticket...So, that leaves an option on the table of getting in the ballpark to make a more educated guess as opposed to a blind purchase. I in no way am going to opine or debate vaporware.

    Sorry bout your luck and genralization!
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    The lack of test rides and demo's is a problem. But availability of such would add considerably to cost.

    If they had a one week money back guarantee like fezzari, that would help alleviate some concerns. But it would add to the cost of these bikes also.

    Phone support would add to the cost.

    R&D for frame research (i.e., sponsoring riders) would add to the cost.

    They are passing on savings to the consumer, but the consumer has little information (relatively speaking) about how these bikes ride.

    It's a catch 22: savings vs. information.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by UltraMTB1 View Post
    Surface, you haven't had your bike for long, but what are your assessments so far of the following:
    1. cornering ability
    2. manualing/wheelies
    3. descending
    4. climbing
    Do you feel the bike is lacking in any of these areas?
    Cornering is a little more cumbersome but that is probably due to going from a 42"/1067mm wheelbase & 26" wheel to a 47"/1195mm wheelbase & 29" wheel. On hairpin turns is really only where I noticed I have to slow more.

    Manualing/wheelies are hard for me on any bike but now with the ability to drop the post so easily, I can get further than I could on the smaller whelbase 26" bike.

    Descending is night and day but again probably due to the 29" tires. There is rooty/rocky stuff that would destroy me and the 26" HT bike. I understand why people say 29" dumbs down the ride because it's making things A LOT easier. I for sure feel not as easily ready to go OTB now and that's led me to having more fun/confidence. Climbing has become just as descending and going up bumpy terrain is a lot easier now.

    Really the only issue I've found is I feel like I am more sluggish at full speed but having more gears, much lighter bike is where that came in before. I will take the less speed for more stability and less crashing. The thing is I don't drop back in a pack any more from getting stuck on terrain that all the other 27.5 and 29 riders would just cruise through so in reality I am going faster I guess. I guess it just feels like accelerating is a little harder. When we would come to hard pack is where I could get ahead before but really how much time is even spent on flat hard pack if you are trying to have fun?

    I think in the end nothing weird is happening like we are led to believe will happen.
    Going from hardtail to full sus. helps greatly with fatigue on the body. The 29" tire just rolls over everything. The bike just works. The small differences in geo. are probably just not an issue when they are so close. I think the main problem with these bikes is you have to buy then hope you got the right size. That isn't too hard to figure out since we can find something very similar at a LBS and go off of that. In my case that Specialized Stumpjumper Expert Carbon 29 was pretty close and it seems like I got the size right. Also not having a dealer minutes away is not the greatest but as long as they honor any warranty issues and you are able to wrench on your own bike, that becomes a nonissue. I don't push myself or bike to any crazy limits to break the frame nor could I since I live in FL and there is limited trail to begin with. I'll probably be good for another 8 years with this just as I was with the other Moto I have.

  39. #39
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    Motobecane is likely choosing from a catalog of production frames, choosing groupo etc. therefore are circumventing the need for dedicated R&D.
    It's common. There are a host of manufacturers in both Taiwan and China that do the deed.

    R&D is autoCAD, prototype, select test team. (Very limited number) Most of the low cost stuff as above is reverse engineered, produced etc.
    Has no bearing on quality of product in many cases as they wouldn't survive a Monsanto judgement in class action...
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    Awesome review, surface. The carbon frame is closer to a contemporary frame geometry: shorter stays and longer reach than the aluminum frames, for sure. It's kind of an odd mix of the short reach of fezzari bikes, the longer chainstays of the vitus mythique 29er and low "in the bike" feel of a specialized. It's hard to characterize the carbon motobecane, that's for sure.

    Banshee is right. At least for the aluminum frames, they are almost certainly catalog, generic frames. Motobecane is in fact, using the same design across e-bike and non motorized full suspension lines at least for 2019 and 2020.

    I bet just about all of the motobecane bikes are superb at monster trucking in a straight line through rough terrain and downhills. The aluminum bikes just aren't great for tight cornering or manualing.

    I'm probably more interested in a middle of the road approach with a 60+ cm ett in a medium and around 43.5 cm chainstays, although as I have said before, plenty of skilled riders can make 44.8 cm chainstays work for them and enjoy the bikes.

    It's frustrating that motobecane can't update their frame geometry. They are clearly out of step with the most recent designs.

    After a bit of research, we've gotten a clearer picture of these bikes' pros and cons. Thanks in particular to the motobecane owners for offering their ride reviews: greatly appreciated!

    There are other options out there though if you absolutely require super short 42 cm chainstays. You can't get that with motobecanes.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    IMO, there's a lot of unsubstantiated and speculative BD vitriol in this thread.
    No, itís not speculative, many of us (moi) have taken the BikesDirect plunge, so we speak from experience.

    The BD frames and suspension design are garbage, parts are parts, itís not a good deal, for the $$$ the OP is planning to spend, there are better direct order bikes.

    Personally, Iíd go with a Fezzari Abajo, mid travel, 27.5/29, aluminum frame, decent suspension design, good warranty, good CS.
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  42. #42
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    Ah, so now it's the frame and suspension that are garbage....

    Kinesis manufactures Commencal, Diamondback, Felt, GT, Haro, Ideal, Jamis, K2, Kona, Kross, Raleigh, Redline, Santa Cruz, Schwinn, Storck, Sunn, Titus Cycles, Torker, and Trek...so they must all be garbage.

    Too bad for all the people out there using those garbage bikes.

    so we speak from experience.
    That is a BS statement right there. There is nothing negative spoken about high end Moto bikes other than similar claims to what you said about their design. ALL bikes coming out today are within a few millimeters of each other and they are mostly all made by the same place.

    for the $$$ the OP is planning to spend, there are better direct order bikes.
    Also BS. Nothing came close to what was offered with what I paid. Not even close. You show me a carbon full suspension bike w/AXS for less than $7k....I'll wait. The middle priced bikes is where it's gets fuzzy and it might make more sense to buy LBS since what you get is not as great a deal. If I was spending in the $1500 range I would have just went with what is available at the LBS since at that price it's all entry level components. The higher end Moto bikes as far as $ for what you get, can't be touched. Their no marketing, subpar customer service does make you think about spending so much but a garbage bike is not what they offer when you pay a lot there.

    I forgot since I've been away from this site how asinine it can get. People talking about suspension design like they are mechanical engineers or professional riders and/or could even tell the difference if somebody hadn't spoon fed them why or what different designs even matters. You can't tell the difference of a few mm on anything no matter how much you think you know and when being faced with the facts that almost every bike out there is of similar geometry within those few millimeters and doesn't shut mouthy people up, there is no point in arguing.

    The point is, I paid low money to have a fancy wireless carbon full sus. bike that I am having fun riding over some big brand entry level bike coming in at the same price point and if that hurts your feelings, then sorry.

    I made my decision and I am more than happy with it. The offer is on the table if anybody close by wants to ride it. Not going to argue since some people have their own theories and are set in their mind as to what is great or garbage. I'm out, see you in another 8 years to buy another Moto.

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    The claim was that the frame and suspension designs were garbage. If you thought you got the same frame and suspension design that you'd get on a Trek or Santa Cruz from Bikes Direct, I'm sorry to inform you that you got played.

    Nobody else cares about the electronic shifting, either. The last thing I want on a bike 50 miles from everything is electronic shifting. For a road bike, sure. For anything that is designed for hard use, no thanks.

    Enjoy your purchase, but you got played. And this is coming from a guy who was once a BD customer, and honestly, in some categories, they offer an excellent value. But full squish mountain bikes are all about the suspension design. The value they offer is because they have the most innovative suspension designs on the market in their time. Unlike road bikes, mountain bikes are not just the sum of their parts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by twodownzero View Post
    The claim was that the frame and suspension designs were garbage. If you thought you got the same frame and suspension design that you'd get on a Trek or Santa Cruz from Bikes Direct, I'm sorry to inform you that you got played.

    Nobody else cares about the electronic shifting, either. The last thing I want on a bike 50 miles from everything is electronic shifting. For a road bike, sure. For anything that is designed for hard use, no thanks.

    Enjoy your purchase, but you got played. And this is coming from a guy who was once a BD customer, and honestly, in some categories, they offer an excellent value. But full squish mountain bikes are all about the suspension design. The value they offer is because they have the most innovative suspension designs on the market in their time. Unlike road bikes, mountain bikes are not just the sum of their parts.
    Says the guy who hoards Surly bikes and spends $6K on a bike with crappy GX Eagle lol. You don't need a morning rooster, bell tower or a personal alarm; just try shifting gears with GX Eagle and you'll wake up the entire town! Cruuuuuuuuunch!! Talk about "gettin' played." Are you a rapper btw? Gettin' played....

    As you predicted surface, a bunch of childish haters who are jealous of the guy with the flashiest, best, most expensive gruppo on the market.

    BTW, specialized charges a mere $11,020 for their fullsus bike with axs eagle. That's just $7,420 more than the motobecane! And the chainstays are a full 4mm shorter: super short 438mm chainstays vs cadillac long 442 mm chainstays! That should make the specialized at least .0000000000000004 mph faster! What a smokin' deal!

    That sure is $7,420 well spent! 438 vs 442mm chainstays! That's a big deal! How much extra does Specialized pay it's R&D "engineers" to shorten their chainstays by 4mm??

    https://www.specialized.com/us/en/s-...c-axs/p/171229

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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfacecreations View Post
    Ah, so now it's the frame and suspension that are garbage....

    Kinesis manufactures Commencal, Diamondback, Felt, GT, Haro, Ideal, Jamis, K2, Kona, Kross, Raleigh, Redline, Santa Cruz, Schwinn, Storck, Sunn, Titus Cycles, Torker, and Trek...so they must all be garbage.

    Too bad for all the people out there using those garbage bikes.


    That is a BS statement right there. There is nothing negative spoken about high end Moto bikes other than similar claims to what you said about their design. ALL bikes coming out today are within a few millimeters of each other and they are mostly all made by the same place.



    Also BS. Nothing came close to what was offered with what I paid. Not even close. You show me a carbon full suspension bike w/AXS for less than $7k....I'll wait. The middle priced bikes is where it's gets fuzzy and it might make more sense to buy LBS since what you get is not as great a deal. If I was spending in the $1500 range I would have just went with what is available at the LBS since at that price it's all entry level components. The higher end Moto bikes as far as $ for what you get, can't be touched. Their no marketing, subpar customer service does make you think about spending so much but a garbage bike is not what they offer when you pay a lot there.

    I forgot since I've been away from this site how asinine it can get. People talking about suspension design like they are mechanical engineers or professional riders and/or could even tell the difference if somebody hadn't spoon fed them why or what different designs even matters. You can't tell the difference of a few mm on anything no matter how much you think you know and when being faced with the facts that almost every bike out there is of similar geometry within those few millimeters and doesn't shut mouthy people up, there is no point in arguing.

    The point is, I paid low money to have a fancy wireless carbon full sus. bike that I am having fun riding over some big brand entry level bike coming in at the same price point and if that hurts your feelings, then sorry.

    I made my decision and I am more than happy with it. The offer is on the table if anybody close by wants to ride it. Not going to argue since some people have their own theories and are set in their mind as to what is great or garbage. I'm out, see you in another 8 years to buy another Moto.
    All that matters is that you, ya know, the bloke that wrote the check is enjoyin the hell outta da bike!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfacecreations View Post

    I forgot since I've been away from this site how asinine it can get. People talking about suspension design like they are mechanical engineers or professional riders and/or could even tell the difference if somebody hadn't spoon fed them why or what different designs even matters.
    .
    Actually, some of the people on this site ARE mechanical engineers, frame designers and pro riders. Believe it or don't. And many, if not most, know a lot more about bikes and riding than anyone who say something patently ridiculous, such as "Rolling over a lot of stuff that normally would have made a 26" wheel stop dead". I pop my 26er over 30" logs. Please, stop the insanity...

    FWIW, I usually ride a Haro or 26" single pivot steel bike on the trails, so you can save the brand-snob rant.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Actually, some of the people on this site ARE mechanical engineers, frame designers and pro riders. Believe it or don't. And many, if not most, know a lot more about bikes and riding than anyone who say something patently ridiculous, such as "Rolling over a lot of stuff that normally would have made a 26" wheel stop dead". I pop my 26er over 30" logs. Please, stop the insanity...

    FWIW, I usually ride a Haro or 26" single pivot steel bike on the trails, so you can save the brand-snob rant.
    That's laughable at best... My stock bike takes a 30" to be a feature of a trials section! Could be wrong but logs and boulders are intended for trialsin are they not??
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Actually, some of the people on this site ARE mechanical engineers, frame designers and pro riders. Believe it or don't. And many, if not most, know a lot more about bikes and riding than anyone who say something patently ridiculous, such as "Rolling over a lot of stuff that normally would have made a 26" wheel stop dead". I pop my 26er over 30" logs. Please, stop the insanity...

    FWIW, I usually ride a Haro or 26" single pivot steel bike on the trails, so you can save the brand-snob rant.
    And yet they're still dumb enough to get ripped off by buying unreliable, creaky $12K plastic bikes to show off at the trailhead as if they were tweener girls showing off their latest justin bieber backpack at the mall:

    https://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/b...s-1114545.html

    Or they're dumb enough to buy AXS Eagle on an $11K bike when they could get the same group on a $3.6K motobecane.

    Stop defending stupid poseurs when the stupid poseurs are at least cognizant enough to call themselves stupid poseurs. That just makes you even dumber than the stupid poseurs.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Actually, some of the people on this site ARE mechanical engineers, frame designers and pro riders. Believe it or don't. And many, if not most, know a lot more about bikes and riding than anyone who say something patently ridiculous, such as "Rolling over a lot of stuff that normally would have made a 26" wheel stop dead". I pop my 26er over 30" logs. Please, stop the insanity...
    Guess there are no physicists then since it's pretty basic that running into a 6" curb with a 29" and 26" wheel will lead to very different results if you don't pull up on the handle bar.
    Maybe pictures are needed? Down to a couple bikes, need advice-wheel_27_5_650b_1.jpg
    Nobody said you can't ride over a 30" log with a 26" wheel, in fact there's a reason trials riders use a smaller wheel which is a different conversation all together but I guess this has turned into a 26"vs29" argument now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfacecreations View Post
    Guess there are no physicists then since it's pretty basic that running into a 6" curb with a 29" and 26" wheel will lead to very different results if you don't pull up on the handle bar.


    Maybe not the same but the results will be similar, either way you will end up on top of the curb.
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    I think some of what happens here is a regional thing. I notice it is a lot more wealthier areas that this stems and bleeds from. It is the same with the auto scene. You will see people putting $3k worth of wheels on their $25k cars like it's no big deal all the time in CA. People try to emulate these people without realizing their incomes are 4x of what they make or the other guy has rich parents paying for it all.

    Ha, too funny! Upon reading a couple posts in on that thread, the CA thing is even specifically called out. Somebody even said they were made fun of with their Specialized bike and it was even touched on in this thread that Specilized has no idea what correct frame geo. is now. Same thing happening with women carrying their high dollar purses, trying to keep up with the Kardashians except we have them men here doing it with their boutique bikes, so lame.

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    The motobecane is well in line with average industry numbers. Chainstays and wheelbase are a bit longer than average, but specialized and fezzari follow this design philosophy also. Reach is a bit shorter than average but in line with fezzari bikes for example. There's some debate in the motob subforum as to whether the reach calculation is even accurate (it's actually longer), which would place the figure even closer to the industry average.

    The motob leans (no pun intended) towards the stable end of the continuum but only very slightly. The vitus mythique with 445 mm chainstays, the gt sensor with 440's, and the specialized with 438's, seem to be of the same mind.

    The motob has the same 65* HTA as the Ripmo AF which has thousands of posts devoted to it since it's release. The STA is exactly the industry average.

    As surface has taken pains to point out, the geometry is clearly in line with what the rest of the industry is thinking.

    The rear suspension design is a proven four-bar/horst link design used by Fezzari and of course Specialized.

    This is BEFORE we start talking about value. A 150/140 bike with RS Pike and AXS Eagle at $3600 is off the charts for value. After taxes, you're saving $8,300 or more compared to the Specialized AXS Eagle bike.

    Fortunately, this bike is way out of my price range, so I'm not tempted to buy it.

    Surface definitely got the last laugh on the brand snobs with their creaking, unreliable poseur bikes lol.



    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Down to a couple bikes, need advice-27.522.jpg  

    Down to a couple bikes, need advice-halboostcarbon-geo.jpg  


  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by UltraMTB1 View Post
    The motobecane is well in line with average industry numbers. Chainstays and wheelbase are a bit longer than average, but specialized and fezzari follow this design philosophy also. Reach is a bit shorter than average but in line with fezzari bikes for example. There's some debate in the motob subforum as to whether the reach calculation is even accurate (it's actually longer), which would place the figure even closer to the industry average.

    The motob leans (no pun intended) towards the stable end of the continuum but only very slightly. The vitus mythique with 445 mm chainstays, the gt sensor with 440's, and the specialized with 438's, seem to be of the same mind.

    The motob has the same 65* HTA as the Ripmo AF which has thousands of posts devoted to it since it's release. The STA is exactly the industry average.

    As surface has taken pains to point out, the geometry is clearly in line with what the rest of the industry is thinking.

    The rear suspension design is a proven four-bar/horst link design used by Fezzari and of course Specialized.

    This is BEFORE we start talking about value. A 150/140 bike with RS Pike and AXS Eagle at $3600 is off the charts for value. After taxes, you're saving $8,300 or more compared to the Specialized AXS Eagle bike.

    Fortunately, this bike is way out of my price range, so I'm not tempted to buy it.

    Surface definitely got the last laugh on the brand snobs with their creaking, unreliable poseur bikes lol.





    If I were you I think I'd get a 26' wheel Moto-Bacon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BansheeRune View Post
    That's laughable at best... My stock bike takes a 30" to be a feature of a trials section! Could be wrong but logs and boulders are intended for trialsin are they not??
    I have no idea where you live and ride that logs and boulders aren't something you don't see tons of on your MTB trails, but it's obviously NOT New England.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfacecreations View Post
    running into a 6" curb with a 29" and 26" wheel will lead to very different results if you don't pull up on the handle bar.
    If this is something you regularly do, the result is that you should quickly accept the fact that you have no clue how to ride a bike and no wheel size is going to save you from yourself on actual MTB trails.


    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Maybe not the same but the results will be similar, either way you will end up on top of the curb.
    What he said.


    Quote Originally Posted by UltraMTB1 View Post
    He actually thinks 26ers and 29ers have equivalent rollover lol.
    From his other thread:
    Quote Originally Posted by Surfacecreations View Post
    First trail riding today and it went pretty well. Rolling over a lot of stuff that normally would have made a 26" wheel stop dead.
    I didn't say they were the same. I said the statement above makes it obvious he knows little about riding mountain bikes.

    Please though, feel free to prove me wrong: let's go ahead and name the trail where these obstacles are located that he was rolling right over but can't be ridden with 26" wheels without stopping dead. It was at Alafia right? Which trail(s) specifically?

    I'm quite sure we can easily pull up some video and quickly and definitively determine who among us actually knows something about riding bikes and who are over-excited newbs talking crap on the internet.

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  56. #56
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    Time to do some laundry...too many dirty socks around here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Yup, total brand whore on my four year old hammered Haro.
    You and your charts got me again!
    Oh, sick! Which haro?


    Lucky.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Evidently, you have trouble following a conversation.

    First off though, I'm a 'dummy' for not knowing off the top of my head where you live? Sorry, not everyone on MTBR is aware of your address Should we be? You famous?.


    "My stock bike takes a 30" to be a feature of a trials section! Could be wrong but logs and boulders are intended for trialsin are they not??"

    Sorry I may have been confused but I'm pretty sure you said "logs and boulders are intended for trialsin". So are they not intended for trails? Not even in the "ROCKY MOUNTAINS"?

    As far as the rest, the 30" log example has precisely nothing to do with what you may or may not typically find on a trail in the "ROCKY MOUNTAINS". I mention it because I find it laughable when people regularly bring up ye olde mythical obstacle that can be rolled over easily with a 29er but is impossible with a 26er.
    You yourself then proceed to make my point for me and mention that smaller wheels are actually preferred by those who ride the most challenging obstacles, ie trials riders. But yeah, I'm the dummy.
    Well, thanks for putting words into a convo that were never said. Where the fvck did I say that obstacles are not on trails, WHERE? Infact, you copied anand pasted but forgot to change it up to back your claim that I said anything remotely to the effect of "logs and boulders not being on trails", that is solely in your imagination
    I get trialsy with all of my plussers as well as my fat, whaddofit??

    Carry on...
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    Consider yourself blocked, I donít do troll.

    Quote Originally Posted by UltraMTB1 View Post
    LMAO! This clown thinks the motobecanes suck because of their "overly long" 44 cm chainstays yet he praises his own bike with 47cm chainstays. What a hypocritical goof.
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    Quote Originally Posted by UltraMTB1 View Post
    Maybe some day you'll figure out how to read a geo chart.

    You brand whores never cease to amaze me.

    You've got 51 posts since joining MTBR, um, this month, and a shockingly high number of them are in praise of BD/motobecane.

    That's all fine assuming you put it out there that you're on their payroll in some way.

    Not willing to come clean? OK, we'll just consider you a run-of-the-mill shill and ignore you.

    But if you keep up with the personal insults you'll be canceled post haste. Tough to shill for your employer when you can't log in.

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    I now have several hundred miles on my Team LTD riding a variety of mixed trails in Oregon, all I can say is anybody bitching about a Moto is just burning CO2, the bike rips! Yes, it is fast downhill in a straight line but we ride lots of singletrack both up and down. Mine is a 27+ so that might make a big diff in slow cornering over surfaces 29. Mine corners great at all speeds and climbs like a billygoat on redbull. I seriously doubt most guys could tell the difference between hills on a 44 vs 43 chainstay frame as having 10 rides on a rear tire probably makes more of a diff. While I opted for the xo1 drivetrain instead of bluetooth, it shifts waaayyy better than any xt or gx drivetrain by 10x. The wheel set is great, suspension works very well after playing with pressures and adjusting comp/rebound. I swapped out recon 2.6 for dhr 2.8 when i tossed the tubes and that made a big diff as well. For $2400 I think I got an amazing deal, even if i tossed frame and bought a SC or Ibis frame I would still be $2500 ahead if not $3500.
    I looked and rode a ton of bikes and this rides as well as any I tested. BTW, BD offeres a 30 day return if you dont like it...I still have mine.
    In case anybody thinks I am a Moto spy or dont know how to ride, I raced KTM 450 in National enduros for many years, I know what handling is and came off an older 26 FS that cost a lot more than the MB even in late 90s. Its a great bike for an even greater price, but no matter what actual owners say, people are still going to bitch and complain, put them down or make fun of them....funny how they still end up talking about them though.....

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    Thanks again for the input RD!

    I was skimming a thread on chainstay length over at vitalmtb. Surprise, surprise, the thread was semi-interesting, with the forum riffing off of a decent hot take. Initially. UNTIL an mtbrforum member jumped in with blatantly and extremely idiotic and random takes. He was and is flat out incoherent.

    The clown in question was/is "ninjichor." I tried to ignore his posts but everyone started responding to him. When someone asked for his "credentials" he ignored the question and just kept on ranting and flaming about ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

    The only useful info to be gleaned on motobecanes is from riders like Surface and RD who actually own the bikes.

    It would be great to test ride the bikes, but from what I've read the chances of that are slim and none. I hate to say it, but it seems like a bad business practice. The overwhelming majority of bike brands allow for test rides or demos in some form or another. BD is the major exception. It really is a bad look.

    I read RD's comment about BD allowing returns within 30 days. I'm not sure if I'd feel comfortable returning a bike unless it was clearly defective. But if it was a matter of subjective personal preference where I wasn't thrilled with the bike but everything was still working properly, not so much.

    Fezzari's policy is in the spirit of love it or return it, and they boldface their policy and promote it. You can call and speak to a live rep without any difficulty. You can send many emails before and after purchase. Fezzari is proud of their customer service. For BD, they attempt to minimize interaction with prospective and current customers.

    Even then, I'd be reluctant to return a bike. Not that I think I would, as they make good bikes. They're a smaller company and a bike return would probably impact their company in a tangible way. Now if it were costco or amazon, and a product didn't meet expectations, then that's a different calculus.

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    http://www.bikesdirect.com/money.htm

    So, BD's policy is that returns are allowed within 30 days. The buyer is responsible for inbound and outbound shipping. Returned bikes are subject to a restocking fee unless it is in new condition as determined by BD.

    So, theoretically, you could return it within 30 days and only be out as little as say, $170 for shipping both ways. If there was any sign of use, there'd be a restocking fee on top of that, which could run a few hundred dollars.

    All of which is fair: $200 to $400 in fees for a 30 day demo? No one could complain about that on a fullsus bike that's worth a few thousand dollars. If it was a cheap bike, it wouldn't be worth returning. But on a nicer bike, where daily demos can cost up to $90 a day, BD's policy is quite fair.

    BD would then likely flip the bike on their other site bikeisland, at a slight discount as a used/blemished model. They wouldn't take much of a loss, aside from the time required to deal with the return, clean, adjust and repackage the bike for a new customer.

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    mikesee,
    What makes you think Ultra is a moto/BD spy? I have 26 posts since joining and with a few exceptions, all about a Moto....do you think I am a Moto/BD spy? Maybe just a normal guy getting into riding after a 10 year period recovering from back injury and not wanting to blow $7k in case my physical limits dont agree with riding? I have ridden some pretty badass very expensive bikes probably while you were still in middle school as a old friend is a verry famous builder/designer with an actual degree, I cam off a bike that was $4k in mid 90s so not new to great bikes, for me its about riding, not what you are riding. In old days, we were happy to drag whoever would venture oun in woods with us, reguardless of bike, GT, Schwinn, Haro, Marin, Fuji etc. I am just at a loss as to why everybody is so into bike bashing now days, specially Motos.....makes me wonder who you work for

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    You hurt any manufacturer's wallet and they will let you know about it whether that's direct confrontation(rarely happens but example is below) or bashing lower priced but equal products that will possibly take money from them. This MTB industry is getting out of hand with the pricing and when that's questioned, be ready for the s**t storm that follows.

    I trash talked a hood strut company on a car forum I frequent for charging 3-4 times($200) what it would cost make make one yourself and boy oh boy did I get an earful after that. All this R&D talk, better materials, longevity of product, warranty, customer service, etc. He was pissed.
    I said I would make one for $50 if I had the time and he dared me to do it. I never got around to it since a hood prop is not on the top of my list for important things I need in my life and this Black Friday, I got a competitors hood set for the $50 I said it would take to recreate theirs.

    It's not too far fetched to believe there are company lurkers in here bad mouthing Motobecane. When you give fact about measurements/groupset/quality/etc., it all gets really nasty quick and nobody can pinpoint exactly why we shouldn't buy the higher end Motos. I went through it 8 years ago and the same exact thing happened this time for the new bike. I was ready for it and came to the table knowing exactly how much I wanted to spend and what I would get. I just needed help on whether to go 27.5" or 29" and if the AXS and carbon frame was worth the extra $.

    Are there "spies" in here, most likely. This isn't like a Google review where you just pop in, write a good or bad review and move on. This industry requires the long game which is why anybody probably questions Ultra since he is so new and aggressive about why we need to spend so much money on these bikes. Ultra seemed aggressive but he is also trash talking Moto/BD elsewhere in here also....I looked since I was curious too. If he is from Moto, then he isn't doing them any help lol. I think he just wants a good deal on a good bike and he would for sure get it with the better Motos much to the dismay of some in here.

    Sorry this thread derailed into this, probably should have kept the questions all in the Motobecane subforum but it's so dead in there.

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    lol, I don't trash BD, but I do criticize them when it's warranted. I think I'm ruthlessly fair rather than aggressively critical.

    I don't love or hate BD or Motob. I'm simply after accurate information.

    Alas, this forum isn't for that. It's about posturing about how expensive your plastic bike is, or for trashing competing brands.

    You can glean some information from time to time, but it's like digging for a quarter oz of silver out of a mile high pile of feces.

    It goes both ways, though: certain brands like Ibis exploit the bike press' cowardice and inability to review bikes critically, so they essentially function as mouthpieces for the companies that lend them the most toys. Same with SRAM.

    BD has taken things to the opposite extreme where it's not literally but actually impossible to touch one of their bikes or ride them without buying them outright.

    The industry is now polarized according to either price or prestige and there's precious little middle ground left.

    Some of my friends and I still have an interest in fullsus bikes, but at the prices these companies are asking, forget it.

    I don't demonize industry folk though. Aside from their interest in bikes, they are tough to generalize about it. Some are nice and honest and generous to a fault. Others are lazy and/or arrogant. And of course there are weird knobs who as one weird guy put it, have hard ons for price and prestige. Some just like to drink and party at bike festivals until they are burned out or get fired.

    I think I'm totally fine demoing for a year or two without committing to a particular bike. What's the rush anyway?

    For a tl, dr: motob fullsus bikes are in fact approx. 3-5 years behind in frame design. For some, that's anathema. For others, these are nice holdovers from a golden period of frame geometry.

    In at least 95% of cases it doesn't matter: the riders aren't good enough to really test the limits of any bike at $2K or higher, regardless of brand.

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    What s train wreck, definitely time to move on.
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    R&D lol.

    That's what Pivot tried with it's aptly named "Shuttle." $11K and you can't even remove the battery to recharge it. You have to park the entire bike next to the outlet!

    Trek's "R&D" produced a new Fuel with half the travel and 2 extra pounds compared to any other XC bike on the market.

    Specialized's been in the full suspension business from the very beginning and still can't produce a bike without pedal bob in 2020.

    Santa Cruz bikes are so creaky, MTBR has an entire thread devoted to how crappy they are in brand snobs.

    How anybody pays $10K+ for this crap is beyond me.

  70. #70
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    Crazy crazy shit going on in here.

    Newcomers wheelin in, claiming to be the smartest guys in the room. Maybe get a couple of decades of experience in before you start talking shit to the regulars here.
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  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by UltraMTB1 View Post
    R&D lol.

    That's what Pivot tried with it's aptly named "Shuttle." $11K and you can't even remove the battery to recharge it. You have to park the entire bike next to the outlet!

    Trek's "R&D" produced a new Fuel with half the travel and 2 extra pounds compared to any other XC bike on the market.

    Specialized's been in the full suspension business from the very beginning and still can't produce a bike without pedal bob in 2020.

    Santa Cruz bikes are so creaky, MTBR has an entire thread devoted to how crappy they are in brand snobs.

    How anybody pays $10K+ for this crap is beyond me.
    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post
    Crazy crazy shit going on in here.

    Newcomers wheelin in, claiming to be the smartest guys in the room. Maybe get a couple of decades of experience in before you start talking shit to the regulars here.
    To be fair, from an outsider's perspective he's pretty on-point.

  72. #72
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    Man, the type of shit people hurl at BD is absolutely over the top.

    I checked out the complaints over at the BBB and the lies, shit-talking, threats and gross incompetence of their complaining customers is almost impossible to believe.

    Some clown threatened them with a lawsuit claiming the bike almost killed him. He demanded a refund, but then settled for a new tire and rim. Conclusion: idiot rider trashed his rear wheel, then blamed BD somehow for his error.

    Another stripped the threads on a crankarm installing a pedal then blamed BD. BD sent him a new crankarm free of charge lol.

    A third demanded a full refund on the entire bike when there was a mixup shipping a bent derailleur hanger.

    Their CEO must have the patience of a saint.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post
    Crazy crazy shit going on in here.

    Newcomers wheelin in, claiming to be the smartest guys in the room. Maybe get a couple of decades of experience in before you start talking shit to the regulars here.
    Regardless of how long someone has been a member they're more than entitled to politely express an opinion or experience. UltraMTB1 has not been able to do it politely in this or other threads and therefore is now on a weeks vacation.

  74. #74
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    I cannot say i am missing her/him it was bound to happen.
    Going riding we have snow !!!

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riding Dad View Post
    mikesee,

    I have ridden some pretty badass very expensive bikes probably while you were still in middle school



    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post
    Crazy crazy shit going on in here.
    You got that right!
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  76. #76
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    Obvious troll or not, I'm almost sorry to see it end. The amount of energy put he put into this thread is impressive. On a small scale it was a mastercraft of conspiracy - the inflammatory claims and demonization, the broken logic, finding a hint of truth - isolating it and then drawing demonstrably wrong conclusions.. but sticking it with to a dying end.

    As an addendum - here's some unsolicited advice: There's no free lunch. There are no deals too good to be true. There is no single company that has an angle figured out that they can offer you the same product @ 75% less than the rest of the market place. You will be making a concession. It may work for you, but it's not the bargain you hope it is.

    You can be a savy shopper - find deals, buying overstock and last year's gear that will serve you well. Beware of 'deals' and companies that offer up a single hook like a higher end drive train - that 'level' is the least important aspect and you will certainly be paying for it via the quality of everything else.

    Carry on.
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  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Mega View Post
    Obvious troll or not, I'm almost sorry to see it end.
    I'm sure UltraMTB1 will be back and I hope that they continue to post but without calling everyone "clowns / poseurs / squirts" because they bought their bike from a more mainstream LBS stocked brand.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by driver bob View Post
    I'm sure UltraMTB1 will be back and I hope that they continue to post but without calling everyone "clowns / poseurs / squirts" because they bought their bike from a more mainstream LBS stocked brand.
    To be honest, I can overlook the name calling, but where he went over top was questioning people's moral compass.

    Few people on this forum know each other in real life, which makes it "easier" to call names and be asshats.

    This internet thing is gonna be around for a while, so maybe it's time that folks take responsibility for what they post, as they would if they were interacting en vivo.

    ... and some advice for UltraMTB1: Try joining the party and getting to know folks before claiming absolute knowledge. Believe it or not, the folks on this forum are mostly good people and they will go out of their way to help out a newcomer.
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  79. #79
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    I don't pop into mtbr much anymore but this was great entertainment during a late, slow breakfast. Thanks.

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  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    To be honest, I can overlook the name calling, but where he went over top was questioning people's moral compass.

    Few people on this forum know each other in real life, which makes it "easier" to call names and be asshats.

    This internet thing is gonna be around for a while, so maybe it's time that folks take responsibility for what they post, as they would if they were interacting en vivo.

    ... and some advice for UltraMTB1: Try joining the party and getting to know folks before claiming absolute knowledge. Believe it or not, the folks on this forum are mostly good people and they will go out of their way to help out a newcomer.
    As a newcomer to this group, I have not found that to be true, unless you ask which is the best $7k entry bike. I think its an honest question to ask about any brand yet if you mention Moto, its like you shit on somebodys pilow....nothing but outright verbal assault for being so stupid to consider such a dumb idea.
    Oddly enough, I have yet to hear one substanciated claim as to why not. Personally, I could give two shits but am to the point of realizing that since I dont like in Colorado and have 3 $10k bikes, there isnt anything to gain by sticking around as everybody here is an expert pro racer with trust fund cash and matching attitude. Certainly not the mountain biking world of 20-25 years ago.

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riding Dad View Post
    As a newcomer to this group, I have not found that to be true, unless you ask which is the best $7k entry bike. I think its an honest question to ask about any brand yet if you mention Moto, its like you shit on somebodys pilow....nothing but outright verbal assault for being so stupid to consider such a dumb idea.
    Oddly enough, I have yet to hear one substanciated claim as to why not. Personally, I could give two shits but am to the point of realizing that since I dont like in Colorado and have 3 $10k bikes, there isnt anything to gain by sticking around as everybody here is an expert pro racer with trust fund cash and matching attitude. Certainly not the mountain biking world of 20-25 years ago.
    I've been around awhile and have always been firmly planted in the 'budget' category. I don't find this to be true at all.

    I also don't see any unprovoked BD bashing. Point it out to me.

    People generally recommend other bikes over theirs, but don't typically rant about them until they are lured into it by one of the BD zealots.

    Also keep in mind that a guy like this shows up about every 6 months and does this exact thing. You can imagine for members that have been around for ten years (or more) it gets old.

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  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riding Dad View Post
    As a newcomer to this group, I have not found that to be true, unless you ask which is the best $7k entry bike. I think its an honest question to ask about any brand yet if you mention Moto, its like you shit on somebody's pillow....nothing but outright verbal assault for being so stupid to consider such a dumb idea.
    Oddly enough, I have yet to hear one substantiated claim as to why not.
    Bikes Direct buys (often weird) open mold frames and builds them up with components on closeout. The documentation on their models isn't very good, and sometimes they cobble together some really weird spec choices in order to maximize perceived value. Some of their bikes the complete package is really odd, sometimes it's weird but a minority will prefer it, and some are quite good. Nothing they sell is really aimed at the consummate rider, so that user group isn't that familiar with their 11 billion offerings.

    It makes them really hard to talk about. The only people interested in BD bikes are beginners or returning riders who are attracted to the apparent value. A helpful someone who knows what's up has to really scrutinize the product spec to recognize a good package, and still will be guessing due to BD's poor documentation and overwhelming variety. So everyone in the conversation will be poorly informed and approaching the product from opposite directions and with different priorities.

    ...and so the conversation sucks. Thus the experienced folk just say 'don't go there.' There's already too many choices.

    Quote Originally Posted by tfinator View Post
    Also keep in mind that a guy like this shows up about every 6 months and does this exact thing. You can imagine for members that have been around for ten years (or more) it gets old.
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  83. #83
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    Let's make make this real easy:
    Save Up to 60% Off LTD QTYS *ALL BIKES FREE SHIP 48 LTD QTYS of these SRAM AXS Eagle Wireless shifting 5.5 INCH/ 140mm Travel Carbon Fiber Full Suspension 27+ Boost Mountain bikes Carbon Fiber*ALL BIKES FREE SHIP 48 LTD QTYS of these 5.5 INCH/ 140mm

    ANYBODY PLEASE point out exactly what is wrong with this bike in size medium. I won't hold my breathe on this now since it never gets a straight answer and I suspect it never will. ANYTHING, the geo., groupset, shocks, the color, frame warranty, etc....what is it?! Lots of crapping on the AXS in here but that's understandable if you aren't riding with it so, don't even go there unless you own/ridden it. They do have a couple measurements off on the site which doesn't help them here so "documentation on their models isn't very good" is pretty valid. Mediums actual reach was measured in at 454mm not 429mm. Standover says 778mm(30.6") actual measured in at 749mm(29.5").

    I wasn't given this help I'm being told we get in here at all either, just direction to stay away from the bike. If you can't pinpoint what's wrong with this exact bike I don't want to hear it. I'll start and say their website is very outdated and they cram too much info everywhere like they are limited on space or something.

  84. #84
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    Agree with tifinator and scott. SHMF is a long time member and stated that he isn't riding the latest boutique high price bikes. I'm not either. If you guys bought motobecanes and you're happy with them and enjoying riding them, I don't think anyone here really has a problem with that and if someone does, who cares? My main bike is still a 3x10 and "old" geometry; I know some may scoff at that but I don't care. OP was asking for advise and people gave theirs and it took off from there. Seems odd that Ultra was so defensive, even called the BBB posts "lies" but it seems he has never ridden one; I'm not even sure he owns a bike at this point. But he's been the same way in other threads.
    Last edited by chazpat; 3 Days Ago at 06:33 PM. Reason: another post came in before mine
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  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riding Dad View Post
    As a newcomer to this group, I have not found that to be true, unless you ask which is the best $7k entry bike. I think its an honest question to ask about any brand yet if you mention Moto, its like you shit on somebodys pilow....nothing but outright verbal assault for being so stupid to consider such a dumb idea.
    Oddly enough, I have yet to hear one substanciated claim as to why not. Personally, I could give two shits but am to the point of realizing that since I dont like in Colorado and have 3 $10k bikes, there isnt anything to gain by sticking around as everybody here is an expert pro racer with trust fund cash and matching attitude. Certainly not the mountain biking world of 20-25 years ago.
    Nice try. The only insults being hurled around were by the anti-bike brand crew, who also claimed to know more than anyone who dared take issue with their rather extreme positions. Ironically, even your post cited immediately above contains some nice jabs at the end
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  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfacecreations View Post
    Let's make make this real easy:
    Save Up to 60% Off LTD QTYS *ALL BIKES FREE SHIP 48 LTD QTYS of these SRAM AXS Eagle Wireless shifting 5.5 INCH/ 140mm Travel Carbon Fiber Full Suspension 27+ Boost Mountain bikes Carbon Fiber*ALL BIKES FREE SHIP 48 LTD QTYS of these 5.5 INCH/ 140mm

    ANYBODY PLEASE point out exactly what is wrong with this bike in size medium. I won't hold my breathe on this now since it never gets a straight answer and I suspect it never will. ANYTHING, the geo., groupset, shocks, the color, frame warranty, etc....what is it?! Lots of crapping on the AXS in here but that's understandable if you aren't riding with it so, don't even go there unless you own/ridden it. They do have a couple measurements off on the site which doesn't help them here so "documentation on their models isn't very good" is pretty valid. Mediums actual reach was measured in at 454mm not 429mm. Standover says 778mm(30.6") actual measured in at 749mm(29.5").

    I wasn't given this help I'm being told we get in here at all either, just direction to stay away from the bike. If you can't pinpoint what's wrong with this exact bike I don't want to hear it. I'll start and say their website is very outdated and they cram too much info everywhere like they are limited on space or something.
    lol oh right, something helpful. Here's some observations-

    -frame is interesting. It's an open mold frame of course. Geo is pretty cool- it's a long bike. 68mm BB is a weird choice, but not problematic in itself. The suspension kinematics are a total mystery, and that really sucks cuz you can't assume anything with open mold frames.

    -it looks like it fits large, if what you say is correct. Having multiple disagreeing geo numbers is hugely offputting.

    -stem and bars are a complete mystery. Speccing a different length stem on each size is bizarre 90s BS, but it's not necessarily bad. It speaks to a weird frame, like the 68mm bb does.

    -i don't know what the fork is. I'm not aware of a pike that fits their description. They mention a lockout, which was an accessory you could buy for most pikes, but it's not in the photo. I don't like RC pikes... but what are you buying here??

    -brakes/shock... meh, fine. Maybe somewhat undergunned on a long 29er, but that's ok.

    -properly fancy drivetrain, but this isn't where i'd throw all my money. Kudos for including the ca$$ette. Pointless fancy headset, too.

    -wheels are unremarkable but good. the DT 370 hub is fine but nothing special. The well regarded DT hubs are the 240 and 350, which have a different drive mechanism.


    -2.25 recons are light and fast, but they don't match this bike's apparent intentions. (who is the ideal user of this bike?)

    -100mm dropper? Just give me a rigid post and i'll buy my own.



    Verdict- i don't know? There's too many unknowns here. Typical of BD. AXS eagle is the icing on the cherry and i'd happily forgo it for GX or SLX and put that budget somewhere else. I've used it, don't own it. It works well. I wouldn't buy this bike without being able to test ride it. If you tally up the costs it seems like a good value, but not an amazing value.


    This post wasn't very entertaining to write. I'd rather say 'yeahhh just don't go there.'
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  87. #87
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    Quick reply (well, started quick):

    Some of the spec is ok - some is misplaced. Like scott said, who is this minded for - what type of rider? 2.25 tires? Crapola 100mm dropper? Electronic shifting? Zero name hbar/stem/misc parts. It is all over the board and lacks consistency and, if you want to reach, purpose.

    For me - it's about risk. Since the bike lacks identity - people who get into something are either going to replace all clunky crap and go more racery - or beef up the other junk and go more trail/all mountain... Of course, some people don't give a damn and ride any ol' thing which is sort of why bikes like this exists.

    Back to risk - I looked at the numbers for my size and it's bizarre - long stays, to me - tiny reach (444mm vs I ride 500mm) and ett (24 on a large - ugh)... Looking at the pic and the claimed 74.5 STA doesn't jive. Of course, to see if the geo works for you - and it could - you'd need to have a test ride that you can't. Finally - it's complete guesswork on the suspension kinemetics - they don't attempt to give you a vision for what you are in for - firm pedaling platform, bottomless feeling on hits...a complete crapshoot if the suspension behaves in any predictable or forecasted way. A few mil on a rocker, or shock placement makes all the difference - my guess - mold bike most likely put their placement in the spots that were cheapest to accommodate and fit the widest range of random parts.

    So - what are you trading? You looked at specs - saw some parts you can recognize (note: only because legit companies use same/similar ones).. you see some sale pitches with rando techo spec...ok fair enough - I guess there are versions of some of the same words that established companies use... price tag is low. So I guess, if you don't have any idea of what you want and want the lowest possible purchase with some part recognition. You're there. If you want to invest in a platform that you can actually ride first, appropriately size, align with a mfgr's vision on how it should perform - under what conditions and use and get some sense of predictable results based on what the mfgr was aiming for --- and how... well, buying from a company that can articulate that is going to reduce your valuable time spent trying to self-analyze and ultimately lessen risk in your purchase.

    Finally, look at that website - it's a mess and full of really bizarre salesmanship. I'll leave it like this: this is their window to their audience - they chose to make that their best foot forward.

    tl;dr - the waivering part spec and strange geometry should raise enough of a red flag that you shouldn't put faith in how the suspension might perform nor how well frame will tolerate use. Thus the most important part of the bike - the frameset is suspect. You could invest in another proven platform with no redflags but a lower part spec and ride confidently.
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  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    lol oh right, something helpful. Here's some observations-...
    That's more like it.

    The disagreeing geo. numbers is perplexing but actual numbers are more what people seem to want. This is specifically why I went with the CF frame instead of the aluminum. The alum. seemed a little cramped but it doesn't seem an issue observed in the Moto. subforum for it's users.

    Stem and bars are indeed a mystery but since they are usually swapped out for a better fit, I figured that wasn't an issue. Ibis throws an "Ibis" labelled stem and bar on their $4k bikes so that seems fair in this price range. I might go Spank Oozy trail 780 vibrocore bar and RaceFace Atlas stem for that.

    Fork is a Pike Select+. I had trouble finding about them and only know they can't be bought separetly and only come on the bikes. It does not have a lockout, just LSC adjust.

    Brakes have been fine and on what's available for me to ride, it gets it done. If I ever get to where there's more than 40' of elevation to ride I'll probably swap out for 4 pots.

    I was fine with the 3 pall 370 hub at first but upon further understanding of what I was missing, I realized how it was affecting the ride. I did swap it all out for the 54t ratchet and that added $140 to do that.

    Tires also are 2.3" Highrollers, not the 2.25 Rekons. Figured those would also be getting something like a 2.6 but I am fine with them right now.

    The dropper post should have been a 150mm post with this size but I think they are much like a grip and pedal now and you want to make it your own so them throwing that on there is just a standby piece until I figure out which one I will get. I have it all the way into the frame and when up, another inch or two would be perfect. Leaning towards the Oneup v2.

    Not being able to test ride is a huge turn off and I kind of just took a big gamble there but from what I've ridden on to get a baseline, I think it turned out well.

    Thank you for actual help here as it may help the next guy looking at this. I sure wish I had this all to go through before buying. Maybe BD is listening in and can cleanup some issues with an updated and correct website.

  89. #89
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    ^I ride the 800 vibrocore bar and it's now my go to bar. Started as an experiment a few years ago... it has hand placement that works for me and the bar is also a good value (can be had for $80). Don't make me bet my life on it but I think the vibro aspect actually does something too . I also recommend the Spank Spike Race/2 stem - another solid performer and can be had for $40.
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  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfacecreations View Post

    Thank you for actual help here as it may help the next guy looking at this. I sure wish I had this all to go through before buying. Maybe BD is listening in and can cleanup some issues with an updated and correct website.
    I remember seeing this thread when it was new, saw links to 4 motobecanes with AXS, and decided i didn't want to get involved. It just totally didn't align with where my priorities are (i'm a frame geo/brakes/suspension idgaf about the rest kinda guy), and BD threads always turn in to a shit show. I'm here for entertainment. Being helpful is a happy accident.

    I totally get your frustration though. Generic BD comments aren't very useful. It just that like... that previous post took me 30 minutes to put together. It's like doing someone else's homework.


    Congrats on the new bike! Previous critiques aside, it's sweet. You seem to have a pretty practical attitude about it, so i'd be interested in your evaluation of the geometry, suspension behavior, and fit/finish once you have like ~1000 miles on it.
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  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfacecreations View Post
    don't even go there unless you own/ridden it.
    I would suggest you consider taking your own advice with regard to everyone else's bikes.

    I never said anything was terrible about the bike, I just think it's silly to spend 4k (which is top dollar IMO, and almost twice as much as I've ever spent on a bike in my 30 years of riding) on a budget framed bike just to get them to slap a few gear-whore components on it. Half that with perfectly serviceable parts makes a ton more sense, which I believe is the same conclusion you ended up coming to in an earlier post.
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  92. #92
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    Everything you ever wanted to know about BD bikes is available if you do your homework.

    The folks who have been down this road, did their homework, gained wisdom through experience ... they told you in very simple terms that BD bikes are not all that.

    Asking us to do your homework because you donít believe without proof, well, thatís your problem.

    Next time, think twice about that gift horse, cuz there ainít no such thing as a free lunch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Surfacecreations View Post
    That's more like it.

    The disagreeing geo. numbers is perplexing but actual numbers are more what people seem to want. This is specifically why I went with the CF frame instead of the aluminum. The alum. seemed a little cramped but it doesn't seem an issue observed in the Moto. subforum for it's users.

    Stem and bars are indeed a mystery but since they are usually swapped out for a better fit, I figured that wasn't an issue. Ibis throws an "Ibis" labelled stem and bar on their $4k bikes so that seems fair in this price range. I might go Spank Oozy trail 780 vibrocore bar and RaceFace Atlas stem for that.

    Fork is a Pike Select+. I had trouble finding about them and only know they can't be bought separetly and only come on the bikes. It does not have a lockout, just LSC adjust.

    Brakes have been fine and on what's available for me to ride, it gets it done. If I ever get to where there's more than 40' of elevation to ride I'll probably swap out for 4 pots.

    I was fine with the 3 pall 370 hub at first but upon further understanding of what I was missing, I realized how it was affecting the ride. I did swap it all out for the 54t ratchet and that added $140 to do that.

    Tires also are 2.3" Highrollers, not the 2.25 Rekons. Figured those would also be getting something like a 2.6 but I am fine with them right now.

    The dropper post should have been a 150mm post with this size but I think they are much like a grip and pedal now and you want to make it your own so them throwing that on there is just a standby piece until I figure out which one I will get. I have it all the way into the frame and when up, another inch or two would be perfect. Leaning towards the Oneup v2.

    Not being able to test ride is a huge turn off and I kind of just took a big gamble there but from what I've ridden on to get a baseline, I think it turned out well.

    Thank you for actual help here as it may help the next guy looking at this. I sure wish I had this all to go through before buying. Maybe BD is listening in and can cleanup some issues with an updated and correct website.
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  93. #93
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    I am over 60 and commense was free back than so we could afford it.
    That tells me since many bikes are sold each year and many would love to save 500$ those idiots who cannot sell bikes at 500$ discounts and need 2K and more will be bankrupt real soon. So the bikes warranty is just a lie.
    I buy used, i can test it, make sure it fits.
    Using common sense is not a la mode but i still do it out of habit i guess.
    Good luck with your GPS and smart phone.

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by 33red View Post
    I am over 60 and commense was free back than so we could afford it.
    That tells me since many bikes are sold each year and many would love to save 500$ those idiots who cannot sell bikes at 500$ discounts and need 2K and more will be bankrupt real soon. So the bikes warranty is just a lie.
    I buy used, i can test it, make sure it fits.
    Using common sense is not a la mode but i still do it out of habit i guess.
    Good luck with your GPS and smart phone.



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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Damn, word salad deluxe!
    The bikes are expensive but the commense is free.

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

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