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  1. #1
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    29+ and 27.5+

    Im looking to sell my full squish for a + sized hardtail this month. I test rode a Trek Stache 29+ and fell in love with how well it tackled the Arizona terrain. Originally, I was not looking into the 29+ size, but a buddy had one for me to test. It had enough cushion over the small rocks that I didn't miss my rear suspension. Only once on a very rocky downhill did I start to get tired of the ride, but this was my first hardtail test in over 10 years! So I am sure my riding style will only improve once I ride on regularly.

    My first few bikes of interest were 27.5+ hardtails with aggressive geo. Something like an RSD middlechild, Ragley Blue Pig, Commencal Meta AM HT.

    Yet, after riding the Stache and loving it, I am wondering the ride difference between a 27.5+ and a 29+. Is there a noticeable ride change? I ran roughly 13-14psi in the 29+ and used to run 16 or 17 psi in a 27.5+ full squish (Intense ACV).

    I have my eyes set on a Stache, but with all of these new hardtails coming out with slacker HA, steeper STA, and longer reaches, it has me hesitant. Would a 27.5+ be "enough"?

    The final kicker is I have most of my Intense ACV parts laying around (Sold the frame). So a 27.5+ build would be super quick and much cheaper. Any advice or thoughts from someone who has ridden 27.5+ and 29+ is greatly appreciated!

  2. #2
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    The geo of the Stache is unrivaled.

    The combo of spot-on geo with the rollover and comfort of 29+ meats is hard to beat.

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    It is such a fun bike! I was shocked when I first hit the trail. It is at the top of the list, but if 27.5+ isnt far behind, a honzo would be a good alternative. It also gets rave reviews, although I have never ridden one personally.

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    I haven't ridden a Stache, but I would guess a Farley EX 8 with 29 x 3.0s is probably pretty close. I paid $4K for my Strive and $1.5K for my Farley EX 8. Guess which one I ride the most? Guess which one brings the most smile per mile? I love the Strive as well, but the Farley EX in 29 x 3.0 is home.
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    Quote Originally Posted by roughster View Post
    I haven't ridden a Stache, but I would guess a Farley EX 8 with 29 x 3.0s is probably pretty close.

    The FEX is a fun bike -- it's *a bike*, of course it's fun! -- but the geo ain't even close to the Stache, and as such the ride experience is very different.

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    I have friends with the Stache and they LOVE it.

    One thing to keep in mind, you'll have fewer tire choices on 29+.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    The FEX is a fun bike -- it's *a bike*, of course it's fun! -- but the geo ain't even close to the Stache, and as such the ride experience is very different.
    Yeah, I need to get a Full Stache. I hear nothing but good things. /adds to list...
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  8. #8
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    I can't really speak for the Stache, but don't waste your time with 27.5+. I have ridden both for extended periods of time. 27.5+ always made me wonder if I should just go back to 29er. The only reason why I tried it was because I noticed a pretty big rotational weight penalty on the 29+, so my only recommendation is make sure to get relatively decent wheelset.

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    Iíve had my Stache for 3 years. Stache geo is very unique. Chain stay length is comparable to many 27.5+ frames. Despite the large wheels, the bike feels very playful and agile. I ride a 120mm travel fork, which works great in north Texas, but some guys are running up to 140mm to accommodate a bit more aggressive riding with good results. Rim width, tire choice and pressure drastically change ride characteristics. Iíve recommended the Stache to more friends than any other bike. Itís not the fastest bike I own, but I donít race any more. It is by far the most fun bike Iíve ridden. It seems to have a cult following particularly with taller riders. Iím 5í7Ē, so Iím on the small side of most Stache riders, but I have no issues when the riding gets more technical. Overall, itís a great bike that feels much more playful than the big wheels and tires would suggest.


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    Two of my bikes are 27.5+ hardtails. Neither ride like my Stache. I like them a lot and they're a ton of fun to ride but I love my Stache. The carbon hoops I put on my Stache did make the bike a bit more agile and peppy though. Every time I ride my Stache I always say to myself that it is the one bike that I could never get rid of. It's just a fun unique bike that always puts a smile on my face.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy E View Post
    Two of my bikes are 27.5+ hardtails. Neither ride like my Stache. I like them a lot and they're a ton of fun to ride but I love my Stache. The carbon hoops I put on my Stache did make the bike a bit more agile and peppy though. Every time I ride my Stache I always say to myself that it is the one bike that I could never get rid of. It's just a fun unique bike that always puts a smile on my face.
    I dont think ive seen one bad review of the stache! compliance wise, how is the 27.5+ vs 29+?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slowtalker View Post
    Iíve had my Stache for 3 years. Stache geo is very unique. Chain stay length is comparable to many 27.5+ frames. Despite the large wheels, the bike feels very playful and agile. I ride a 120mm travel fork, which works great in north Texas, but some guys are running up to 140mm to accommodate a bit more aggressive riding with good results. Rim width, tire choice and pressure drastically change ride characteristics. Iíve recommended the Stache to more friends than any other bike. Itís not the fastest bike I own, but I donít race any more. It is by far the most fun bike Iíve ridden. It seems to have a cult following particularly with taller riders. Iím 5í7Ē, so Iím on the small side of most Stache riders, but I have no issues when the riding gets more technical. Overall, itís a great bike that feels much more playful than the big wheels and tires would suggest.


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    I've always wondered if a 140mm fork on the stache would be a good fit! Good to hear its possible. That means I can keep my DVO Diamond

  12. #12
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    Stache with carbon wheels....loving mine

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2old View Post
    Stache with carbon wheels....loving mine

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    For those on a stache, should I go with a Large or Extra Large? I am 6'1" with a 35" inseam

  14. #14
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    I'd double down on the 29+ support. Love mine to pieces.

    I'd also suggest (as a small shop owner, and avoider of most things big and popular for little real reason other than marketing) avoiding the 800 pound gorilla that Trek is, and look at a Surly Krampus, been loving the hell out of mine.

    Or just get a Lenz Behemoth and really call it a day.
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    New to the Forum. Don't mean to hijack this post. I'm in somewhat the same predicament. Have been contemplating getting a new Stache 7, or Full Stache 8, or a Fuel EX 7/8 (2020 Fuel EXs come with 29x2.6 XR4s. So, although not "plus" size, it's not too far off). Iíve read so many reviews and forum posts, and watched so many videos. I still canít make up my mind. Iíve test ridden the Full Stache and Fuel EX in a parking lot only to assess the fit. I won't be demoing any of them on a trail. I am 59 years old, 5'10" @185#. I'm new to MTBing, donít like to go fast, prefer to keep the wheels on the ground. I mostly like to just get off the pavement, pedal, explore and enjoy the scenery. I currently live in the Los Angeles area, so trails are dry desert fire roads and single-track, but I could be living in the Pacific NW in 5 years (who knows). I'm looking for something that will satisfy my mellow MTB style of riding for the next 10+ years. Looking for comfort and stability in 29+. Just can't decide between HT of FS. I am aware of the differences between the two.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by barefootdan View Post
    For those on a stache, should I go with a Large or Extra Large? I am 6'1" with a 35" inseam
    Reference the size chart for the Stache on Trekís website. I was skeptical, but it was dead on for me. If you canít test ride, go with Trekís recommendation.


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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by barefootdan View Post
    Im looking to sell my full squish for a + sized hardtail this month. I test rode a Trek Stache 29+ and fell in love with how well it tackled the Arizona terrain. Originally, I was not looking into the 29+ size, but a buddy had one for me to test. It had enough cushion over the small rocks that I didn't miss my rear suspension. Only once on a very rocky downhill did I start to get tired of the ride, but this was my first hardtail test in over 10 years! So I am sure my riding style will only improve once I ride on regularly.

    My first few bikes of interest were 27.5+ hardtails with aggressive geo. Something like an RSD middlechild, Ragley Blue Pig, Commencal Meta AM HT.

    Yet, after riding the Stache and loving it, I am wondering the ride difference between a 27.5+ and a 29+. Is there a noticeable ride change? I ran roughly 13-14psi in the 29+ and used to run 16 or 17 psi in a 27.5+ full squish (Intense ACV).

    I have my eyes set on a Stache, but with all of these new hardtails coming out with slacker HA, steeper STA, and longer reaches, it has me hesitant. Would a 27.5+ be "enough"?

    The final kicker is I have most of my Intense ACV parts laying around (Sold the frame). So a 27.5+ build would be super quick and much cheaper. Any advice or thoughts from someone who has ridden 27.5+ and 29+ is greatly appreciated!
    People can opine like no tomorrow on their taste in bikes, wheel size and such. Only you can test and approve what you and you alone feel is the bike you love the performance of. With that said, some shops are willing to rent a rig for a few days or a week for you to get out and really ride (Fuggedddabout parking lot tests). They typically will apply the rental charge to your purchase as well. A rental fee is far lower loss than a bad purchase and subsequent resale at a horrific loss.

    Try 27.5 and 29, back to back if ya can.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    avoiding the 800 pound gorilla that Trek is, and look at a Surly Krampus, been loving the hell out of mine

    Because I have respect for you and consider you a friend, I feel comfortable in asking how you rationalize QBP as anything other than an 800# gorilla?

    I ain't sayin' that Trek isn't. I just wanna know how QBP somehow slips under that radar.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by filmsurgeon View Post
    come with 29x2.6 XR4s. So, although not "plus" size, it's not too far off).

    Just thought I'd point out that in terms of the pressures you can run, and the resultant comfort and stability you can achieve, 29 x 2.6" feels one helluva lot closer to 2.2" than 3.0".

    The difference in air volume from a 2.6" to a 3" tire is massive. 3" isn't for everyone, but if you're looking for comfort and stability, 2.6" is a pretty big compromise.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Just thought I'd point out that in terms of the pressures you can run, and the resultant comfort and stability you can achieve, 29 x 2.6" feels one helluva lot closer to 2.2" than 3.0".

    The difference in air volume from a 2.6" to a 3" tire is massive. 3" isn't for everyone, but if you're looking for comfort and stability, 2.6" is a pretty big compromise.
    That is a welcome bit of info I had not thought about. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. You just helped me make up my mind. The only decision left for me now is whether to go HT or FS on the Stache.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by filmsurgeon View Post
    That is a welcome bit of info I had not thought about. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. You just helped me make up my mind. The only decision left for me now is whether to go HT or FS on the Stache.

    What a fantastic choice to be faced with.

    I've owned both. The honest answer is that whichever you choose you will likely adapt to it's nuances and love it.

    The HT is quick, nimble, rewarding when you put the power down. Unfailingly fun, if harsh when speeds and chunk increase.

    The FS is slower, requiring a more subdued riding style when climbing, which rewards you with crazy stability and control when descending. Eats cinder blocks for breakfast and craps out clif bars for lunch...

  22. #22
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    I love my 29+ Krampus. Even though everyone said that a stubby-legged dwarf (5'3") would not fit.
    I also love my Instagator with 27+.
    Now that, my friend, is a wonderful problem to have.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Because I have respect for you and consider you a friend, I feel comfortable in asking how you rationalize QBP as anything other than an 800# gorilla?

    I ain't sayin' that Trek isn't. I just wanna know how QBP somehow slips under that radar.
    I hear you, and it's a fair question

    Simply put?

    Q's brands support the industry as a whole, bike shops big and small too. They are available, to the industry as a whole (in general, *looking at you, 45NRTH),rather than just dealers who have shown the ability to prostrate themselves at the altar of massive indebtedness in the hopes of profits.

    They are not so hopelessly insular and proprietary that you cannot even (as a non dealer) buy a $5 pivot bolt from them for a bike that a customer of yours, bought used (so why are we worried about them taking it only to a dealer anyway).

    They don't push endlessly, more of their own house branded accessories on you, with Q, you are free to sell whatever brands you like (as a bike shop).

    Q does not close down a long running dealer, to open another across the street who's willing to take on the inventory volumes they think the shop should be selling, or so that the shop won't sell the brands Trek doesn't want to be sold next to.

    Q also, doesn't sell consumer direct, right under their dealers noses, and then require said dealer to take that bike back and issue a refund out of their own pockest if the customer who self selected, doesn't like said bike.

    I could go on, and you're right they are both big, and Q has certainly had it's fair share of gorilla like tendencies, especially in the last bunch of years. But at least they support my right to operate independently, stock the brands I choose, and sell at the volumes that allow me to keep my lights on and bills paid rather than be buried in debt, like so many local shops I know, who have closed in recent years due to the weight of that other type of business model.

    The industry is changing, and not for the better. I support brands that support me, not the other way around.

    How does that impact the end user? It doesn't, at least not directly. Many folks have said in recent times, at a given price point, you cannot buy a bad bicycles anymore, really.

    But if a rider wants an honest opinion and products chosen for their abilities to perform best in local environs, rather than one based on selling whatever the shops primary corporate overlord thinks is hot this year, the big three (and a few others too) are best avoided while it's still possible.

    And that, is the one choice a consumer still has, hang onto it tightly, lest one day, there be no choices left.
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  24. #24
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    I've ridden both 27.5x2.8 and 3.0 and 29x3.0 (I'm over 6'). I much prefer my 29+ Krampus now.

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    Man, this thread has me once again considering a Stache I can't afford. I do love my purple Krampus, but the stache seems to have better geo, albeit with far less character. And character is important..... I just often wonder about swapping all my parts over to a stache frame and running it rigid... my trails are very tight and twisty, and at times the Kramp feels a bit truckish..

    All that said I still have an absolute blast every time I throw my leg over the Krampus

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    I hear you, and it's a fair question

    I've heard your rant before. I believe it, I've just never seen it. Literally not any part of it, and I've been Trek's smallest dealer (still not growing!) for 15 years.

    So small that they probably think I'm hopeless, which is why I've never seen any of the stuff you suggest.

    Trek does a lot of good business and an incredible amount of philanthropy, too, but you have to be willing to see it.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by barefootdan
    The final kicker is I have most of my Intense ACV parts laying around (Sold the frame). So a 27.5+ build would be super quick and much cheaper. Any advice or thoughts from someone who has ridden 27.5+ and 29+ is greatly appreciated!
    For what it is worth, I will give my opinion which will contradict everyone else's but here goes:

    I am also in rocky Arizona. I am 5'8" and could never get comfortable on a 29+ wheeled bike, regardless of what is said it's a lot of wheel when you're not gifted with height. I ride a Fuse Carbon with 27.5 x 3.0 tires (on carbon wheels) and I love it. I have gone down to 2.8 & even 2.6 but what Mikesee says above is true - it's a huge volume difference to step down and makes it much less "comfy" in my opinion. Bottom line is that I have been mountain biking for 33 years and this is probably my favorite bike I have ever had - and I've gone from titanium single speed all the way to full on downhill bike. I love my bike, it's fast enough for me, the OD of my wheel is within millimeters of a 29"er wheel, so it is what it is. I don't race nor have any intention to, I just ride for fun, about 1,400 miles per year.

    If you are 6' or above 29+ may be a better choice FOR YOU. I'd certainly try to ride both. Landis Cyclery here in town carries both brands, the one on Southern & Price has a pretty good inventory on the floor. Ask for Kevin, he's a stand up guy.

    Also, to your comment about a quicker/lesser cost build, you can get the new version Fuse frameset for $800 and probably switch most of your parts from the ACV right over. Just an option. Good luck! these are the fun times.

    EDIT: And by the way, happy to meet up with you and let you give my 27.5+ a try if you're relatively the same height. I'm north of the valley in the Cave Creek area.

    EDIT #2: I'm sorry, I just re-read this thread and saw you are over 6' and long inseam. I'd lean towards 29+. I'll leave the rest of my opinion above in case anyone is ever searching this topic in the future.
    Last edited by blaklabl; 16 Hours Ago at 10:09 AM. Reason: Offer to try it out...
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaddyFatStax View Post
    Man, this thread has me once again considering a Stache I can't afford.
    The 2019 Stache 5 and 7 are on sale right now. Size choices are getting limited.
    BBB (big beautiful bike)

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by barefootdan View Post
    For those on a stache, should I go with a Large or Extra Large? I am 6'1" with a 35" inseam
    6'1" with just over 35" inseam here...

    mine is a 21" XL and I personally wouldn't go down to the L.

  30. #30
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    Another option to check out is the Chromag Arcturian, looks like a fun bike. Considering a 29 plus steel frame myself with more reach, slacker HA and a steeper seat angle. It is not cheap compared to a Stache alu or even a Stache carbon frame though.

    A more budget friendly option would be the RSD Sergeant V3, looks like a fun/versatile bike as well.
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    I've heard your rant before. I believe it, I've just never seen it. Literally not any part of it, and I've been Trek's smallest dealer (still not growing!) for 15 years.

    So small that they probably think I'm hopeless, which is why I've never seen any of the stuff you suggest.

    Trek does a lot of good business and an incredible amount of philanthropy, too, but you have to be willing to see it.
    Not sure how you get ignored, but for your sake, I hope it continues.

    They're ruthless around here, and nationally. So the "good" they do, is far too blunted for me to care.

    I'm not a church goer, but stuff like "do unto others" is something I try really hard to live by, and I have little respect for those who crush those in their way, while pointing to their charitable donations as proof of their magnanimity and good nature.

    Speaking or acting out both sides of ones *mouth*, isn't good practice.

    We'll just have to differ on that I suppose, as you certainly seem to act in ways that exemplify good character.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by filmsurgeon View Post
    I am 59 years old, 5'10" @185#. I'm new to MTBing, donít like to go fast, prefer to keep the wheels on the ground. I mostly like to just get off the pavement, pedal, explore and enjoy the scenery. I currently live in the Los Angeles area, so trails are dry desert fire roads and single-track, but I could be living in the Pacific NW in 5 years (who knows). I'm looking for something that will satisfy my mellow MTB style of riding for the next 10+ years. Looking for comfort and stability in 29+. Just can't decide between HT of FS. I am aware of the differences between the two.
    Anything from full rigid to FS would work well for you, depending on how much you value simplicity vs comfort. I'd go with big tires though in any case.

    I'm a little surprised by all the CA residents that think the PNW is a good place to move to... the winter would really get me down.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    I've heard your rant before. I believe it, I've just never seen it. Literally not any part of it, and I've been Trek's smallest dealer (still not growing!) for 15 years.

    So small that they probably think I'm hopeless, which is why I've never seen any of the stuff you suggest.

    Trek does a lot of good business and an incredible amount of philanthropy, too, but you have to be willing to see it.
    I can see why they let you be. Youíre active on the forums and an expert on many things - especially niche stuff like 29+ and fat bikes. You also cast a favorable light on them and Bontrager in many of your posts. Rightfully so in my mind - they did an awesome job popularizing 29+ and B fat with the Stache and Farley.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by amadkins View Post
    I can see why they let you be. Youíre active on the forums and an expert on many things - especially niche stuff like 29+ and fat bikes. You also cast a favorable light on them and Bontrager in many of your posts. Rightfully so in my mind - they did an awesome job popularizing 29+ and B fat with the Stache and Farley.
    Maybe.

    I think it's probably misguided hubris to assume that I'm on their radar at all.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee View Post
    Maybe.

    I think it's probably misguided hubris to assume that I'm on their radar at all.
    Either way; keep on truckin!

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