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  1. #1
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    SB66 rear shock for a CLYDE

    Hey guys and gals, first post in the Yeti forum. I recently purchased an SB66 with the RP23 High Volume can, Rebound-L, Velocity-L, Boost valve 175.

    Now, I typically hover around 225 pounds during the riding months and jump up to 240/250 during the winter. Currently I'm rather large

    I'm having trouble getting the RP23 dialed in. To get the correct sag, I'm running 250psi. The gives me exactly 25%. I feel like the suspension loses itself (wallow maybe? not really familliar with the terms) in the midtravel and i have no platform to pump and/or bunnyhop the bike. I blow through the entire travel on small rock gardens. If I add more air, the smooth, small bump compliance goes away, but I still blow through the travel. I also have the rebound set as slow as it can go and I still get a bouncy sensation (and if I look down after a small drop, it cycles through a few times before stablizing).

    I have done about as much research as one can do on this subject reading reviews on this forum and others and have narrowed my choices to the following:

    1. Send the RP23 to Push and have them basically gut the shock and return it more appropriate for my weight.
    2. Buy the Cane Creek double barrel air and sell the RP23
    3. Buy the Cane Creek double barrel coil and sell the RP23

    The way I figure it, there's about a 200 dollar difference between having Push give me a shock that could still have drawbacks at my weight, or having a shock that I can fine tune exactly the way I want it.

    My questions are:

    1. What would the "drawbacks" that I hear about getting the RP23 Pushed?
    2. If I decide to go to the CCDB, will the air shock be better for this particular frame than the coil? i'm in the front range, CO, so I have to earn my decents. Is the Switch enough to throw a coil on there and still pedal pretty well?

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    I spoke with CC before I ordered my CCDB Air. They said the standard volume air can should be a good match for the SB's rate. Regardless, the XV air can is only another $40 should I want a more linear rate. That XV can could even be fined tuned more with volume spacers.

    I reckon if you got the RP23 Pushed, you'll still be wondering how good it would have been, had you gotten a CCDB Air (or coil).

    That extra $200 is worth the closure, IMO.

    And yes, I'm in total agreement with the lack of mid-stroke in the RP23.
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  3. #3
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    SB66 rear shock for a CLYDE

    Can't speak of the 66, but my experience on my 575 was that the Push tune made it ride soooo much better(230# myself). I however wanted a bigger bike and got an Asr7. Promptly switched to an Rc4 coil from the DHX air and absolutely no comparison. It's very well controlled and with the low speed compression adjustment I don't miss having propedal. Yes it's heavier, but from my experience, a coil shock handles our weight class much better.

  4. #4
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    WRX-Rob, for a guy of your stature (which I used to be), I'd go for a coil shock, properly damped for you and the bike.

    That way you're not fighting the progressive-air-spring bedevilling of proper-sag vs bump-handling, in addition to damping issues.

    Back in the day I put a ton of miles on a 6" travel Titus Quasi-Moto, and had used a number of different shocks on it, with my body weight ranging from 235-245-ish, and the coil shocks were just better overall. I ended up with a PUSH tuned Marz Roco coil on it that served me perfectly for literally years on end. I'd bet that with a current model Fox, RockShox, or CCDB, that you'd find that SB66 working optimally for you.

    If you do decide to stick with air-spring, I'd seriously think about the CCDBA ... but be advised that getting the damper settings right is crucial, and you can tune yourself into a hateful relationship with the shock if it used improperly. The Rockshox Vivid Air is a viable alternative that if bought with the correct damping tune for you and your bike may be easier on the ownership thing, depends on how much you are into bike shock tuning I guess.

  5. #5
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    What about the new monarchbplus

  6. #6
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    no personal experience with it, but the Monarch line is certainly getting positive buzz these days.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thimk View Post
    I spoke with CC before I ordered my CCDB Air. They said the standard volume air can should be a good match for the SB's rate. Regardless, the XV air can is only another $40 should I want a more linear rate. That XV can could even be fined tuned more with volume spacers.

    I reckon if you got the RP23 Pushed, you'll still be wondering how good it would have been, had you gotten a CCDB Air (or coil).

    That extra $200 is worth the closure, IMO.

    And yes, I'm in total agreement with the lack of mid-stroke in the RP23.
    I'm surprised someone at Cane Creek told you that. I had a conversation with Malcolm@ CC and he told me the opposite.

    The standard volume air can doesn't work well the the SB66. You'll wind up adjusting the HS compression all the way out and still not getting full travel. The XV can makes a huge difference and allows you to use the HS compression circuit adjustment as it's designed.

  8. #8
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    I wonder why the Yeti site says a SB66 is okay for coil while SB95 is air. I imagine with a really flat shock rate curve, a linear shock like a coil or high volume air shock would lead to the very non-supportive midstroke that the OP described. Don't you want a more progressive shock rate curve/leverage ratio curve for mid and end stroke? Seems like it'd be way too linear...

    This explains it a bit more clearly (I believe the SB bikes have a shock rate curve like Heckler/Bullit): http://www.santacruzbicycles.com/company/joe1207.php

    Take a look at this pic and maybe you'll realize going with a higher volume air shock would only worsen your problem (unsupportive midstroke; look at that saggy part of the curve), while a lower volume shock might be the ticket.


    With a linear shock, I imagine the forces chart for the SB66 would look as if it maintains the slope it has here, from the 30mm to 70mm range, all the way to ~152mm, which would make it end up bottoming out with a 900 N force, rather than 1400N, while you see the more progressive ones can take heavier hits before bottoming out. Doesn't look like much changes in the mid stroke.



    Honestly, I thought one of the great things about the SB66 was how easy it was to get a good tune for a wide range of riders, with its stock air shock.
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  9. #9
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    I realize those spring rates in the SCB chart are generalized and each shock has their own unique spring rate curves. What's the stock custom SB66 tuned RP23? Is that the L compression, L rebound, 175 Boost, HV shock that the OP has? Maybe it's worth exploring putting in a lower volume air sleeve, as that seems like it might actually be the be better answer, rather than going high volume, not to mention not very expensive. Assuming the shock rate curve is similar between the SB95 and SB66 (looks like it), might be worth noting that others with the SB95 have installed new lower volume air sleeves to make it more progressive and supportive, as it was a bit too linear for some tastes. Krispy@goride did that mod and raced it Super D, I think.
    I like to jump to conclusions, oversimplify, gossip, and participate in popularity polls.

  10. #10
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    Re: SB66 rear shock for a CLYDE

    Option 1. Rebound m, compression m. Rp23

    Option 2. Push

    Option 3. Other shock

    I'm happy with m-m rp23 as my reserve but I'm really happy with my x-fusion vector air hlr.

    Ccdb air? Meh. I'd rather have a needle roller in the linkage end of a vector.

    Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk 2

  11. #11
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    FWIW, on my SB95 I added the smallest Fox volume adjustment spacer to the air can. The stock one worked MOSTLY well, but didn't quite handle bottom-out like I wanted ... if I had the bike set sell for general riding the bigger hits could bottom harsh (3-4' drops to transition, not flats). With the smallest spacer it feels Just Right. The middle spacer was WAY OBVIOUSLY too progressive. I'm about 210# with gear, FWIW.

  12. #12
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    Thanks bear. There ya go, another who has went lower volume. If you completely read the santa cruz link I posted, you would've noted that the engineer talks about that "super plush" wheel rate thing being a fine balance. It can be wallowy if overdone or not as plush if done conservatively. The air volume spacer to reduce volume would tweak it away from the wallowy state, and since it apparently comes in diff sizes, you can tune just how much. Maybe you can even trim them down for a more custom setup. How much does that kit cost? Worth a try before costly revalving.

    Fox Float Volume Spacer Kit > Components > Rear Shocks > Reducers | Jenson USA Online Bike Shop $25

    Tech Tuesday - How to Install a Fox Float Air-Volume Spacer - Pinkbike
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  13. #13
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    Here's what I was told by Gary Maltby of Cane Creek a few weeks ago, regarding the DB Air. I got one, and I'm finding that so far I'm not using the full travel. Maybe that's a good thing (i.e. I'm not bottoming out, which is something that occurred with the RP23). Mid-stroke is very very good on the DB Air. I'm running at about 28% sag on the sb66 size XL, by the way, and I'm not so much a clyde (6'3" and 190 with gear).

    "We haven't tested directly with Yeti, but our feedback so far from
    customers has been great for the DB-Air on the 66. We won't have the
    XV cans available for a few months. So my advice is to ride it at
    stock volume and see what you think, you can always change the can
    later. The only reason to go with the XV would be if the bike wasn't
    able to reach full travel with minimum HSC. So far we haven't
    received that feedback about the 66 and the numbers indicate the stock
    volume should be good."

  14. #14
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    The SB66 has a fairly linear suspension curve, which seems a bit unique in the trail bike world. This is why coil shocks like the DHX-RC4 work so unreal on it. The standard volume CCDBair gets very progressive at the end of it's stroke, which is why most have had trouble getting full travel out of it even with the HSC opened up all the way. The CCDBair was the best air shock I had on my bike, the quality of the travel was unmatched, but I ultimately sold it because of it's harshness at the end of the stroke. Now with the XV can I would absolutely get another. Also, linear shocks don't give you "saggy mid stroke", especially the CCDBair with the variety of adjustments it offers. Poorly tuned or matched shocks for the frame or the rider do. Sure, every shock has it's plusses and minuses, which is why manufacturers work with the shock companies to provide a shock that performs best all around for the average rider, but there are limits to how well a shock is going to work when you get outside the "average Rider" realm. Once you start adding weight even the best shock can appear to get a bit walllowy.

    With shocks everything is a give and take. The RP23 gives really good initial stroke support and the rebound circuit works really well. I think for heavier riders (maybe 180lbs and up) the mid stroke and wallowing can be an issue. I had mine Pushed with the big hit kit and am really happy with the results. I asked for something really specific and they hit the nail so I would consider that before spending $600+ on a new shock.


    EDIT* After reading Jeremy R's response below RE the air volume, I'm talking about the XV inner can, which apparently is standard in the latest version of the CCDBAir and cured the problem with some frames getting full travel.
    Last edited by smellurfingers; 04-11-2013 at 06:29 AM.

  15. #15
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    Wow, great responses guys. Very informative. I called both Push and Cane Creek to see what they had to say about it. Push says they can get the shock working well for me with a big hit kit and reworking the internals. Cane Creek said the SB66 is a good match for the regular volume air can, since the HV can gets a little too linear on an already linear suspension design.

    I decided to try the Fox spacer kit and i'll play with it to see if a more progressive shock can work, before spending a butt load on a new shock or having Push rebuild a shock that doesn't need to be rebuilt yet. If it needed servicing it would be a no brainer. I plan on sending it to them Sept/Oct time to rebuild it and tweak it to my weight. For now, the fox spacer might just do the trick.

  16. #16
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    I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with how well the spacer works.

  17. #17
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    Just to set the record straight, I am running the DB air on my 66c. It has the high flow inner can which is now how all stock DB air shocks are shipped out. It is perfect for the 66. I have used full travel multiple times, and I weigh around 170. I do not plan on getting the high volume air can, as it works just right now with the proper amount of progression at the end.
    See look: : )


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  18. #18
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    I like to jump to conclusions, oversimplify, gossip, and participate in popularity polls.

  19. #19
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    Has anyone had any experiences with the monarch plus? specifically which tune (high mid low) to get? I'm about 153 with my gear and I ride aggressive xc and all mountain. Thanks!

  20. #20
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    wrx any update since using the spacer?

  21. #21
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    bump for updates...
    Will ride singletrack for food...

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