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Thread: pounds baby!!

  1. #1
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    pounds baby!!

    Please share some of the build secrets on your bikes. I test road a Yeti ASR which I really liked but the damn thing was heavy on the climbs! I felt that sometimes I was pushing some dead weight with me up the hills. Down hill I didnít mind the extra weight. The total bike was about 3+ pounds heavier than my hard tail which is about 24.5 pounds (not a light as my old 23 pound Ht I use to race on) everything else was like the Yeti race build,

    Suspension Fox Float 100 RLT
    Headset Cane Creek S-2
    Brakes Avid Juicy 5.0
    Shifters Sram X.9 trigger
    Front Der. Shimano XT FD-761
    Rear Der. Sram X.0
    Crankset Race Face Dues XC
    B. Bracket integrated w/crank
    Cassette Sram PG-970 11-34
    Chain Shimano HG-73
    Stem Thomson
    Handlebar Race Face Next Carbon (very wide maybe too wide for me)
    Grips Yeti Hard Core
    Seatpost Thomson
    Saddle WTB Rocket-V ti rail
    Hubs F-R DT Swiss
    Rims DT Swiss X455
    Tires Maxxis Ignitor UST 2.1" (favorite part of the test ride)

    Thing was still heavy in the 27+ range? I rode my usual training ride and was 10 minutes slower (1:30) and that was stopping to look over the bike set up a few things like seat height. Rebound on shocks. I also stopped the clock every time which gave me some time to rest too. So you would think my time would be pretty fast considering I was freshly rested on the stop and go of my ride? This is not the case. I would love to get the ASR to weight the same as my hardtail, then Iím in business. I did like the way the bike functioned up and down the mountain!!

  2. #2
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    my ARC is in the 21-22# range depending on what tires I have on it, pretty good I think considering I didn't really try too hard to keep it light (I could easily knock another 1/2# off by replacing the crank):

    ARC, L size,
    Fork: R7 platnum
    Headset: Cane Creek Solos
    Brakes: Magura Marta, 180mm rotor front 160 rear
    Shifters: X9 twist
    FD: XTR low clamp
    RD: X9 mid-cage
    Crank: FSA V-drive ME (these things are pretty heavy at nearly 1000g, switching to XTR would save over 1/2#)
    BB: integrated
    Cassette: XT, 12/34
    Chain: whatever was cheap when I bought it
    Stem: Thomson X4
    Bar: FSA K-force OS flat (this is pretty slick, it's pretty wide for a flat bar at 600mm, and effectivly has 3/8" of rise).
    Grip: Deda road bar tape
    Bar Ends: woodman
    Post: Thomson
    Saddle: Specialized Alias
    Wheels: Cane Creek Zonos Disc Team
    Tires: varies, specialized roll-x currently.


    I'd have a hard time attributing a 10 minute difference in a 90 minute lap to 3# on the bike. My first ride on the ARC was pretty slow as it handled much differently than I was used to, and I couldn't ride nearly as fast.

    If you really want to go weight-weenie, the obvious place IMO to start is the brakes. J5s are almost a pound heavier than Martas or Mono Minis for the set. It seems silly to me to spec J5 brakes and an X0 derailleur on the same bike.

  3. #3
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    weight estimates

    My 575 carbon (size small) is 25.2 lbs. I built it up on wrenchscience. Their estimate, using their build program, predicted 24.7 pounds. ( part of that difference was due to using my own handlebars and seat) Go to their site and you can experiment with different builds to your heart's content.

  4. #4
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    Joules, I am trying to understand your point here. Where does your ARC help me out? I have a hard tail and it weighs in around 24.5#s. I test a ASR and it rides great but is on the heavey side, about 3# more than what I am use to riding with. I can tell you that the the time I lost we from the weight I was trying to pedal up the hills. I stopped to check the set up and change a few things a bout 3 times during the ride. Lets call these my rest stops. And the time was stopped during these rests. So if only riding time is measured and I rode very well then I would say the extra weight did slow me down on the climbs and I never made up for it on the downhill parts.

  5. #5
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    My large '05 AS-R SL weighs a hair over 24 lbs and several of my friends have them in the low 23 lb range. It's not hard to do that with an AS-R, without getting into silly parts. I feel like my bike climbs like a goat, even better sometimes than my old ARC. It really comes down to what you want to spend to make your bike light. My first suggestion would be new wheels -- Stan's Olympics, Crossmax SLs maybe. I run Stans and like them. You could ditch the trigger shifters and run grip shifts (lighter and cheaper). You could do new brakes -- Marta SLs or Formulas. You could run XTR cranks, a lighter casette. The list is fairly long. The bottom line is that there are a couple of big things (mainly the wheels), but the rest is little stuff that all adds up.

  6. #6
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    My ASR weights in at 23.8 actual the build is

    Yeti's asr medium frame fox rp23 rear shock
    rock shox SID world cup carbon
    selle italia slr saddle
    fsa xc115 stem
    fsa k force carbon seat post
    fsa k force carbon bars flat
    shimano xtr crankset outside bearing type
    chris king headset
    ritchey pro v4 pedals
    xtr cassette
    xtr derailler front and rear
    mavic 717 disc rims with dt revolution spokes built on hope ti hubs
    latex ultra light tubes
    panaracer fire xc tyres 1.8
    xtr hydralic brake and combined shifters with 6 bolt discs

    Also have a 97 ARC and it weights in at 22. something

    Stay fast
    Mark

  7. #7
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    Also, it sounds like you're looking at the race disk kit, which is fine for $3,800 and is a solid, good performing build. But to racers it is heavy. I agree. The pro kit puts the bike around 25-lbs, but it's $5,300. I'm not saying you have to spend $5K to build a sub-25lb AS-R (who pays retail?), but in reality the parts on the pro kit are what it takes to make the AS-R as light as you want it. I started with the pro kit and modified from there. Hope that helps. For the record, here's 24.3-lb my build:

    Large AS-R SL, with RP3
    Suspension -- Manitou R7 Platinum
    Headset Chris King
    Brakes Hayes El Camino
    Shifters X.O Grips
    Front Der. XTR
    Rear Der. Sram X.0
    Crankset XTR
    Cassette Sram PG-990 11-34
    Chain Sram PC-991
    Stem Race Face Dues
    Handlebar Yeti ARC Carbon
    Grips SRAM
    Seatpost Thomson
    Saddle WTB Rocket-V ti rail
    Hubs F-R American Classic
    Rims Stan's Olympic ZTR
    Tires Maxxis CrossMark 2.1 eXCeptions (no tubes, run Stans)
    Pedals Time ATAC Carbon
    Last edited by Reporterkyle; 09-27-2006 at 01:05 PM.

  8. #8
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    I don't buy if I have to pay retail on my luxury items! I would recommend you guys out there that are not already on a team to find a local team and join for this reason alone. You'll have fun too with people that like to do what you do, for reason 2.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by roy harley
    I don't buy if I have to pay retail on my luxury items! I would recommend you guys out there that are not already on a team to find a local team and join for this reason alone. You'll have fun too with people that like to do what you do, for reason 2.

    Well, then, get your team discount warmed up, spare no expense and build yourself a light AS-R. That's the solution right there.

  10. #10
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    No Kyle the solution is not that. The solution is hearing from people with the ASR and what they have used to build up their ASR's. The products they have used are what gives the final solution if they are good suggestions.

  11. #11
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    23.2 lbs

    It climbs as fast as my 20.5 lb HT on my usual training rides (that's why the HT is bye bye soon) About half the guys I race against are sitting on one as well...

    23.2 lbs medium frame
    XTR Dual control Shifters and brakes
    XTR Crank and Cassette
    XTR ders
    Ritchey WCS stem
    FSA KForce bars
    Ritchey foam grips
    King Headset
    Thomson Masterpiece Seatpost
    Fizik Gobi Ti saddle
    Stans Olympic/DT240S/DTcomps wheelset with Stans yellow tape.
    Schwabe standard tires run tubeless w/ stans
    Hope 2 piece aluminum/steel rotors
    Exustar Ti pedals

    With my training wheelset and UST tires it weighs 25 lbs, but still flies!
    Last edited by used2Bhard; 09-27-2006 at 03:58 PM.

  12. #12
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    Just looking at the spec, I'm thinking that tyres, rims and spokes would be a good place to start with shaving grams. Mavic 317's or maybe Velocity VXC rimsand DT Revolution spokes...

    I mean, an AS-Rsl even in the new blingy carbon version is going to be minimum 1.6lbs heavier than your ARC.

    Although you like the UST's they're heavy. My LBS, the first thing they'll do for customers on most bikes is switch out the UST tyres for standard with tubes. Cheaper, easier to fix, usually lighter...

    I've got an 01 ASR. x9 shifters and mechs, VXC rims and Rev'n spokes on Hope XC steel rear hub and DT Hugi 240 front hub, Vanilla 100R fork, Easton Monkeylite riser bar. Tyres are Syncros Factory FLT 2.0. Brakes are Hayes (the previous top spec XC before El Camino with the carbon levers and mag/ti bits). Cranks are Middleburn RS8 with Blackspire Super Pro 22/32/44, cassette is XT, chain is XTR/Dura Ace with a SRAM Powerlink.

    yeah, there are lighter builds but it seems to pick up pace pretty quick and there's no obvious place that I'd want to tweak stuff at present (now that I've done the wheelset upgrade, keeping the hubs off the previous wheelset and changing the rims and spokes.)

    No idea on total weight sorry.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by roy harley
    Joules, I am trying to understand your point here. Where does your ARC help me out? I have a hard tail and it weighs in around 24.5#s. I test a ASR and it rides great but is on the heavey side, about 3# more than what I am use to riding with. I can tell you that the the time I lost we from the weight I was trying to pedal up the hills. I stopped to check the set up and change a few things a bout 3 times during the ride. Lets call these my rest stops. And the time was stopped during these rests. So if only riding time is measured and I rode very well then I would say the extra weight did slow me down on the climbs and I never made up for it on the downhill parts.
    1st point: you can easily find out how much an ARC frame and a ASR frame weigh, I was describing what fairly-reasonably priced components I used for alightweight build. If my frame weighs 3.7 and the ASR weighs... a hare under 5, then it stands to reason an ASR with the same build would weigh 23-24#

    2: like I said, I couldn't ascribe that difference in time to such a small increase in weight. If you weigh... about 150#, you increased the weight of your bike by 1.6% and your lap time increased by 11%... doesn't seem feasable to me. I don't doubt you rode slower, I do doubt the extra weight was the reason. Not meaning to insult, but if that small an increase in weight slowed you down that much you must be a really weak climber.

  14. #14
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    I understand your point. But we are talking about a 12% increase in bike weight. Over a 18 mile ride that weight did punish me on the climbs and I would say I didn't travel that much faster on the downhills (they were a lot more confortable). With a lot of the weight on the test ASR being in the wheels we are talking about a lot of rotational weight that had to be moved for that distance. From some of the other post I know that I can get this rig down to a soild 24 lbs build and have something that I can move just as easy as my HT if not even faster!

  15. #15
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    Tyres more than nearly anything else will change a bike from slug to whippet and back again. If you can, try and grab a test ride on the exact same bike set up with some lightish weight tubed tyres instead of the Ignitor UST's.

    For the XC race we have coming up here in a little over a week, I'll be running Michelin Air Comp Latex tubes and Syncros FLT Factory 2.0 tyres. For me, that works out as both lighter and easier to work with than a pair of UST's.

    Lots of the racers here run Larsen TT 1.9's on front and rear. It really depends what you plan on doing with the bike. Racing or general trails riding...

    Drew

  16. #16
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    Just to clear up any confussion, these tires are not Tubeless onteh test bike. They are teh Maxxis ignitor's (front and baik wheels) The wheel with the rotor is heavy!

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    Race? You mean downhill?

    Sorry, but that build is pretty sad. I think there are 3 parts to keep of what you listed. Rear Der., saddle and maybe, maybe the hubs. It took me three bikes to finally get it right, so I'm just being hard on you to save you some $$. If I were you I'd start buying all your dream components and when you get it all together, buy a good cheap used frame from ebay and switch components from the Yeti to the ebay frame and install the new components on the Yeti. The best way to build a light bike is make a spreadsheet and enter actual weights of every single component from a reliable source. The best source is to bring your own gram scale to the bike shop. There are several good online sources, such as the "save weight" board here on MTBR. Another good one is http://www.weightweenies.starbike.com/listings.php.


    FYI, here is my build
    Attached Images Attached Images
    M

  18. #18
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    Your first post listed them as "Maxxis Ignitor UST 2.1 (fave part of the ride)"

    This is a UST/tubeless tyre.

    If it was running tubes as well as having a UST casing tyre then no wonder it felt bloody heavy! (I expect one reason that they might do that on the test rigs would be to limit flats, but it'd jhave precisely the effect you described of making the rig feel heavy and slow to pick up speed.)

  19. #19
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    nice build Motivated No this is a test bike I am trying out. I still have it and I will do a few more rides on it before I get ride of it but, I have not pulled the trigger yet. With this set up I am keeping the money in my pocket and will probably have to fork out some more to get this bike lighter!

  20. #20
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    Drew,

    That spec list was a cut and paste off of the Yeti site. The bike is the factory build but the tires are not UST's!!!

    thanks for the inputs!

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    just noticed that

    I was about to edit my post noting that you are talking about a test bike, which is very smart. What isn't smart is buying an off-the-shelf part spec. Buy the frame and spec. each and every part yourself. It sounds like since your last bike was heavier than the one before that maybe you should work with a shop that knows about XC racing and Yeti. So, do yourself a favor and call Adrenaline bikes. Your bike will be lighter than the Pro Kit, cost less and you'll be proud of it. Post a picture when it is built up and tell us how it rides.



    Quote Originally Posted by roy harley
    nice build Motivated No this is a test bike I am trying out. I still have it and I will do a few more rides on it before I get ride of it but, I have not pulled the trigger yet. With this set up I am keeping the money in my pocket and will probably have to fork out some more to get this bike lighter!
    M

  22. #22
    Knomer
    Reputation: Dusty Bottoms's Avatar
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    "350 pieces?"

    "Pieces? No....wait....what the fock are you? POUNDS BABY! POUNDS!"

    I have no comment on your skinny boy yeti racer bike, just wanted to give you props on the acknowledgment of the greatest Jerky Boys skit of all time.
    Global Director of Sales: Knolly Bikes

  23. #23
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    I'm guessing that you are a pretty tall guy based off of your crank arm length. You seem to have some light stuff in this build. HAs it held up for you?

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    very reliable

    This bike has been really reliable. I'd say it requires less adjustment and less maintenance than a full XT build, plus it is really quiet. I keep the chain very clean and that makes the drivetrain happy and long lived. I did recently break a nipple on the rear wheel as a result of pinging off a rock mid-corner. Shouldn't be trail riding as much as I have been on this bike lately. It is intended as a race bike, but it does ride so nice and I love riding it, so tend to take it out more than I should. The one limiter in the parts is the aluminum rotors - they modulate better than SS, but can't take longer than about 20 seconds of continuous use, like coming down a fireroad. BTW, I'm 6'4" and really like the 180mm cranks - these old turbine's are the lightest 180's I could find.

    Quote Originally Posted by roy harley
    I'm guessing that you are a pretty tall guy based off of your crank arm length. You seem to have some light stuff in this build. HAs it held up for you?
    M

  25. #25
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    Right there is another great reason why I went to college, so I could listen to Jerky boys till 2 am!

    I got on the ASR again today (the heavy one) and took it on teh same ride I did about 2 1/2 weeks ago. I got done with my ride in 1 hour 18 minutes! So I can crank this thing if I want to but man if I could loose that weight in the wheels! I know this bike would be perfect for me!

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